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Is closure/ friendship still possible or a good idea?
May 29, 2012 4:38 AM   Subscribe

(warning: long w/ summary inside, and drama) We flirted and worked together. We never kissed, but I fell for him. But he didn't tell me he had a girlfriend until later. I backed off and he got engaged. I miss his friendship and want to get in touch. But I recently googled him and found that he is getting married in a month to someone else than who he was engaged to at first. Please help me.

(summary at end if this is too long)

I was fresh out of college and took the first job I could find, in real estate, about 2 years ago. I met him and we just clicked. He is 7 years older and was a supervisor over another area, and I was entry level. He is also a writer, and we even write about the same things that we are so passionate about. I was so happy to know him after leaving school.

We flirted and had great chemistry. He is the most handsome man I've ever seen and was such a good listener and so sensitive. He believed in me and told me to never give up on my dreams. There was emotional eye contact. Once he put his arm around me and looked intently at my face, nervously watching my reaction. That was the only time we touched. We just got each other, finished each other's sentences and could read each other, even without words.

In the beginning, however, he was hot and cold. He is very outgoing and everybody loves him. He would flirt a lot with other girls, but whenever he saw me, he would stop and looked so nervous. Except, whenever he flirted with another administrator (and they flirted much) he ignored me. But sometimes another alpha type would casually talk to me and he got jealous. We never hung out outside of work. We didn't talk about all of the personal details of our lives, but we joked and shared a bond over our similar interests, and it seemed like we always made time in the day to say hi and see each other.

8 months in, he took a business trip out of town, and when he came back, he was a little distant. I began talking to him in one of our usual conversations, and he hesitantly responded and casually told me about his girlfriend, his face turning deep red. I was calm but afterwards was hurt, and later, he kept on looking at me, like he felt bad about not telling me sooner. I should have asked him early on if he had someone.

I didn't want to be the other woman, and from what I could tell it was serious, them being together since before we met, and so I backed off, despite how much I wanted him, even as a friend. It felt like our friendship went too far. I was polite but kept a distance. I think he wanted to still be friends, if I did too, but at the time, it hurt as he was taken. He respected my distance, and I respected his relationship, which I think he understood. We never talked about it.

My feelings made the work situation unbearable. My friend pressured me to leave, and regretfully, I did without finding another job first (but I found one soon after). When he heard, he tried to get me to stay. Then I heard him saying he was thinking of transferring to another branch. 

On my last day, he offered me a job there, at least until I found something. He told me that if I was interested, to let him know. I'm assuming he meant at work since we didn't have each other's personal contact info. I was appreciative, but after thinking about it, I knew I couldn't handle it because of my feelings, and so we haven't been in contact. I assume he wanted me to contact him at work if I wanted to do that.

I have missed his friendship so much. I saw that soon after he left, he created a blog with his writings and it has a contact email. I wasn't sure if I should contact him, in case it may be disrespectful towards his relationship with a woman I didn't know he had when I had fallen for him. But I miss his friendship and wonder, should I contact him?

Fast forward to this past Halloween, about a year and a half later, and I saw a pic online of him and other supervisors from our old branch and his new branch at a bar, including the other administrator he flirted with a lot. He was dressed similarly with a scantily-dressed woman who wasn't his fiancée at the time we left. I became distressed, thinking that I sacrificed my love for him so that he could honor his commitment, to find that he didn't even stay with her. I wasn't sure, but it seemed he was with someone new. 

I recently googled him and found that he is marrying the girl in that photo in a month. She used to be married but now isn't and is in her late 20s, and as that business is small, they may have already known each other. I don't know the circumstances of how things fell apart with his ex, but I cant help but wonder if I had anything to do with it and it made him realize he was unhappy. I don't know how he got together with his new woman and how she divorced her husband, but it seems like they got together soon after he transferred there, but of course I don't know for sure. So he did end things with his first fiancée (or she ended it with him) and has a new fiancée now. People online fawn about the pictures she posted of him kissing her, they look cute. I am devastated. Have I lost him forever, as friends or more?

*****(summary if this was too long)*****
I met a guy at work, we flirted and have so much in common. I fell for him but he didn't tell me he had a serious gf until after 8 months of knowing him at work. I backed off, and he got engaged. I gave my notice to leave my job, it being unbearable due to my feelings. We didn't have each other's contact info, but he offered me a job where he was going, and I regret not staying in touch although I didn't think I could handle working with him while he was engaged. We both left our jobs and he called off his engagement (or she did, I'm not sure how it happened), and now, he is engaged to someone at his new location, to be married soon, and I wonder if it is still possible for us to be platonic friends.

Thank you for reading. My questions are:

1. Did I do the right thing when I found out he was taken? Was I too cold? Should I have done anything differently, besides asking him if he had someone? Please be gentle, I now know I should have asked him.

2. He was really sad when I was leaving, and it felt like he wanted to be friends. Since I've left, I've wanted to be friends, but was unsure if I should as he would be engaged/ married to a woman I didn't know he was with when I fell for him, but now he's with someone new. I was crippled by uncertainty. Do you think there is any chance he'd want to be friends with me now? I really did feel that he valued me.

3. He has a writing blog with some of his works. He hasn't updated it, but he has a contact email there. Should I contact him, in case we may be friends, or if he doesn't respond, just so I know I did all I could to be platonic friends, aside from seeing him at his work (which I don't think I should do)? Do you think it would be weird, because I'd have to explain that I googled him? I really miss his friendship, as I am a writer too, and he is so talented despite not studying it at all in school like I have. I want to be friends with him, and everybody loves him and his writings. He is a solid person who I think would make a good friend, but I'm not sure if he's open to it or if it's a good idea.

4. How do I come to terms with how he's marrying a different woman than the one he was with when we worked together? I didn't act on my true feelings out of respect for his relationship, only to find that it didn't last between them. I know I don't have control over his relationships, as I'm not in them, but it hurt and made me feel like my sacrifice was for nothing. But maybe he's glad I didn't interfere in his relationship when we worked together?

5. If I had given him my info, do you think he would have contacted me after things didn't work out with his gf at the time? I think if he knew I couldn't take the job, he may have wanted to keep in touch, but perhaps for all I know, he may have left her for his next fiancée. Was I too cold? Should I have given him my info?

6. Do you think I hurt him by not being in touch after I left, as he may have been hoping to hear from me? I go out, and I feel like I have done an awful thing, and that he and all my old coworkers may not like me because I left him like that. Sometimes I wonder if I am a pariah to them. Did I leave my job the right way? They said I left on good terms and that I'm always welcome back, but I can't help but wonder, as everyone loves him and maybe they think I should have at least gotten back to him to just say thanks for the offer, if he told them about it.

7. Should I get back in touch with other coworkers from there that I was cordial with, even if they may talk to him or gossip about it? I miss everyone, although perhaps they have moved on.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have and/or those questions. He was the man of my dreams. I don't think he is a bad guy, I think he just put off telling me he had someone because he didn't want to hurt me, even though it wasn't best to do that. I miss his friendship and wonder if it is too late to be friends or if I will ever meet anyone as amazing as him again. He was positive and inspired me to follow my dreams. I feel like his friendship is worth it to try one last time, and then I'll have my answer, but for some reason I'm not sure if I should contact him. Any advice is helpful, I'm at work but please keep the responses coming or pm me. Throwaway email: imisshimsomuch (at) hushmail (dot) com.
posted by skylines to Human Relations (31 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Honey, the fact that you've written a novel about whether or not you should be friends with this guy suggests that you're still carrying a torch for him and you really don't want to be platonic friends. If you get back in touch with him while secretly longing for him I think it's just going to create pain for you - and possibly a big mess.

He doesn't have to be Hitler-bad to make bad decisions that can hurt people. Think how you'd feel if you guys did get together and you found out he was flirting with women at his office and not telling them about you. Kinda sick, right?

I have people from my past who left me wondering what might have been as well, and if I let myself think about it, it seems like maybe if I sent an email, we could just be friendly and that would be ok, right? But usually I'm just being wistful for the past and a little scared of my present. If I were you I'd brush up my okcupid profile and determine to go on lots of dates. Invest a bit in your present to help ground yourself here, instead of the past. Good luck!
posted by bunderful at 4:54 AM on May 29, 2012 [15 favorites]


The sheer length of this question suggests that you don't hope to reconnect as platonic friends, but as a potential romantic partner. After all, hey, he left his first fiancee, so why not the second, right? That's between your lines.
I don't think it's a bad idea to contact him. I think it's a horrible idea. You're setting yourself up to fall for him again and get disappointed again.

If you really want platonic writer friends, join a writing circle or group or local project, or sign up for an online literature project. You get your creative fix with a much lower risk for heartbreak attached to it.
posted by MinusCelsius at 4:59 AM on May 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


I was going through and answering your questions individually, but decided against it. Too many of them are similar.

My knee-jerk reaction is that this guy sounds somewhat manipulative. The constant flirting with people at work and the subsequent changes in his demeanour depending on who is in the room is indicative of that. A lot of romantic relationships in a short time also point in this direction.

However, to give him in the benefit of the doubt, this is/was a workplace "romance". For most people, they're largely fleeting and a means to get through the day. My guess is that he had no idea that he affected you this way.

I think getting in touch with him would be a bad idea. He is getting married, you clearly are still interested in him as more than friends, and no good can come from that. Let the past lie and move on. As they say, time heals all wounds.
posted by purephase at 5:00 AM on May 29, 2012 [5 favorites]


I don't think a friendship will work if you're pining away for him, especially after two years of you building him up in your mind but not having any contact at all. He's getting married. You need to move on. You seem fixated on how great he is and you've created a perfect fantasy of the relationship that might have been, but that fantasy has no basis in the day-to-day reality of having a relationship with someone. If the guy is all that great and the chemistry between the two of you was so wonderful, why hasn't he made any effort to contact you in the two years since you left?

I don't think you should get back in touch with the other co-workers, either, because it seems to me, based that you listed them last in a loooong post about how amazing this guy is, that the only reason you would be doing so is to keep remote tabs on him.
posted by MegoSteve at 5:03 AM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


The thing that concerns me about everything you've laid out is that you don't have a lot of solid facts on what happened on his side. You think he "felt bad about not telling me sooner", you "think he wanted to still be friends", you "wonder if [you] had anything to do with" the end of the 1st relationship. You don't know because he never talked to you about any of these things. It's hard, but try to look at the story again without including all of your assumptions: you worked with a guy who was friendly to you, you had a big crush on him, he was dating someone at the time so you pulled back (good move, by the way), you left the job and lost contact, now he's getting married to someone else. Not very romantic, but it's all true for certain. I think getting in touch with him again would probably not be as fulfilling as you'd hope, so I'd suggest skipping it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:13 AM on May 29, 2012 [16 favorites]


1. It's going to be difficult to be just friends with him, especially since you weren't really that kind of friend before. You've never seen him outside of work, so why would that start now?

2. You will meet people much more amazing than him: people who don't keep secrets from you, who want to hang out with you outside of work; people who don't just inspire you to follow your dreams, but who encourage you to do so and help you make them happen. This is especially true because you're young, but it's true at any age, really.

3. I want to gently suggest that you work on your writing (because you mentioned that you're a writer) or other hobbies, instead of thinking about this guy. There are plenty of other guys out there, but there's only one you.
posted by k8lin at 5:20 AM on May 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


Here's the thing: I knew the answer to your question by the end of your "above-the-fold" paragraph, and I'd bet real money that you do too. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I am very sorry if what I say next hurts you.

This stupid motherfucker is playing you, for real. You gave him a feeling of being wanted that he enjoyed, but he didn't have the fortitude to separate his momentary gratification from his self-respect or respect for you. There was never any chance of you two working out, because in his mind there was no "you two" to begin with. He enjoyed the attention and adoration of a significantly younger person. He is, by your account, continuing to enjoy that, only it's not you in the hollow mask this time. He didn't tell you about his "girlfriend" because he wasn't done using you yet. He offered you a job near him because he wanted you to be available to meet his childlike emotional needs if he wanted that.

Look at how much you've written about this jackass, and then tell me how much of it is about anything he's actually done for you, instead of how you feel around him. This dude is a seriously emotional abusive piece of shit who needs the longing of younger women to make him feel more than useless but has no real regard for you as a person. God help the person he's marrying, because god knows he's not going to.

This is a terrible place for you to be, and again I'm very sorry. But, to answer one of your questions directly, you should be tremendously happy that this waste of skin decided to pick on someone else.
posted by Errant at 5:25 AM on May 29, 2012 [19 favorites]


I, too, think you need to review your story and stick to the facts. I am not suggesting that your feelings have no basis in anything that really happened, because I think that he did lead you on.

But he never kissed you, asked you out, or made any concrete move towards a real relationship with you. I say this not to try to convince you that your feelings are disproportionate - they are what they are and I think he helped to elicit them by flirting with you - but because he didn't express his interest in any way that's remotely useful to you.

He also seems to change partners quite frequently and to display them for public admiration. That sounds rather histrionic, and my guess is that you are not shallow enough to be a good match for him. I think there's less to him than meets the eye, and I don't say that flippantly at all. If you did have any kind of real relationship with him it would leave you feeling just as bad as you do now.

I suggest you go no contact, don't look at his MyTwitFace page, nail your feet to the floor if you have to but avoid him and accept the loss.

Sorry, it sucks.
posted by tel3path at 5:27 AM on May 29, 2012 [7 favorites]


This dude has charisma and he knows how to use it. He likes to flirt and get into emotional entanglements. Your feelings towards him aren't special or meaningful---he's probably carrying on other flirtations.

He's just one of those guys who are easy to fall hard for---in reality, it's a colossal mistake and you were smart to escape.
posted by discopolo at 5:30 AM on May 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


Or, you know, what Errant said.

He chose to treat you this way - it wasn't an accident. And look at the pain you're in. He's not a good guy.
posted by tel3path at 5:35 AM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Lots of relationships don't last. Lots of other relationships do. The honorable thing is to respect the integrity of other people's relationships even if they aren't destined to work out. So it doesn't matter that this is someone new; you did the right thing in the first place.

I think a good rule of thumb is this: If your prior interest was romantic in nature, and the other person is getting married, it's time to walk away. For some reason, this life event promotes that irrational need to reconnect in a lot of people. Not just you! I've certainly done it. It feels like the Last Chance. The opportunity to resolve the what-ifs that's about to be lost forever.

But that person's wedding plans don't include resolving what-ifs with everybody they ever had a thing with. Even if they might have had other things that could have worked out quite nicely, they have a thing right now that's working out nicely, and distractions from that are not welcome. If you really cared about them, or even think that you could have come to care about them in time, then the compassionate thing to do is let it rest. Yes, it's an unanswered question, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a small one.

Because he was not the man of your dreams in the way you think. He *a* man who was *in* your dreams, almost certainly. The man of your dreams, however, is the one who makes strides to be with you. Because you deserve that, as a human being. This guy didn't. That doesn't necessarily make him a bad person, he is just not your idealized perfect guy. He fails one of the top-level criteria for the perfect guy. No matter how many other great things were in his favor, that one wasn't. And the thing is, that criteria is also very similar to one of the major criteria for real friends, which is that they stick by you. Which suggests that in the long run, the best you could hope for out of this is "an acquaintance I used to have a thing for". That is not worth the effort.

The solution to this is a lot shorter: Margaritas. Or something else self-indulgent. Possibly also a movie that provides a good excuse to be weepy and some tissues. Works for me, anyway. You're allowed to wallow in it a little before letting go. (I have had a lot of exes end up in perfect-looking LTRs. I have this down to a science.)
posted by gracedissolved at 5:54 AM on May 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


Errant has it. This guy is a jerk who manipulates women. Consider yourself lucky to have avoided the pain that would have come from further entanglement with him.

Real men don't play head games.
posted by MexicanYenta at 5:55 AM on May 29, 2012 [5 favorites]


What TPS said. You have constructed all of these meaningful glances where you are imparting all of the meaning you read into his looks and actions, when he has in fact said virtually nothing of significance to you at all and you have filled in almost all of the narrative yourself.

He may be a jerk who manipulates women; on the other hand, he may be a guy who was harmlessly flirting with the new girl and would be shocked to discover the proportions that flirtation had acquired for you.

I am super sorry to be so harsh but you need to throw a cold bucket of reality on yourself here. You met this guy two years ago. Since then, he's been engaged to two different women. If he'd really wanted to find you, he knows how to use Google. Let that be your closure. Stop pining. Stop googling. Move on. Nothing is going to happen here that's good for you.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:59 AM on May 29, 2012 [10 favorites]


Discopolo hit it-he's a charming flirt. That doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy. I have a feeling he picked up on your sincerity and feelings and tried to distance himself. But, for a guy like him, you would be irresistible, and he just couldn't help dangling a carrot out to you. Let him go, move on and if you need to make it palatable, just look at him as the one that got away. (As an older woman, I know a few of these guys, and they are a heap of fun, IF YOU DON'T TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY! I like to flirt and they make it easy. But for pity's sake, YOU DON'T FALL IN LOVE WITH THEM! EVER!) You deserve a much better man-go find him. Good luck to you.
posted by LaBellaStella at 6:00 AM on May 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


It's pretty natural to wonder if, had you played your cards differently, it would be you on his arm in the cute pictures that everyone oohs and ahhs over.

You did the right thing when you pulled away on finding out he had a girlfriend/fiancee. You showed your upstanding character there.

Now, get this guy out of your head so you can find another fine, upstanding person to fashion a life with.
posted by bookdragoness at 6:00 AM on May 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


I met a guy at work, we flirted and have so much in common. I fell for him but he didn't tell me he had a serious gf until after 8 months of knowing him at work.

I'm in my 40s and have flirted with a lot of people over the years. The honest ones mention existing relationships pretty much up front and the flirting stays fun and unserious; the dishonest ones don't. Listen to Errant; he is wise.
posted by rtha at 6:06 AM on May 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


Do not contact him. You are better off without him.

Count your blessings and move on.
(Blessing #1 - you are on this side of this story. You could be the girl getting married to this jerk.)
posted by Flood at 6:07 AM on May 29, 2012


He cared more about you than some of the other women he flirted with because he stopped flirting with you when you were there. But he cared more for the administrator than you because he ignored you when she was there. And he cared most for his fiancees because he actually had a relationship with them. Look at how fast this guy cycles through women. I would stay far, far away. Good for you for not getting involved with him because of his fiancee -- you really dodged a bullet. Good for you, stay far away, and good luck!!!
posted by onlyconnect at 6:13 AM on May 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


I recently googled him and found that he is getting married in a month to someone else.
Just stop. Regardless of your past history, you just don't mess with people who are already in committed relationships. He was with someone, they broke up, he did not pursue you, he is now with someone else.
There is nothing left to do "about him", this is now about how you can move forward with your own life without the drama and anxiety. Be honest with yourself, you know you're not looking for something platonic with this guy. Be kind to yourself, find strategies for moving on.
posted by like_neon at 6:21 AM on May 29, 2012 [7 favorites]


You did the right thing.

Friendship is not in the cards for you two, I think. You don't really want to be platonic friends; you are painfully in love with him. And he is engaged. You should stay away and try to move on. Do not contact him.

And look, if he had been in love with you, he would have looked you up when he broke up with his previous girlfriend. I'm sorry, but there's no reason to think he wanted to be with you. He just enjoyed flirting with you at work.

You're really overthinking everything. You didn't hurt him when he belatedly revealed to you that he had a girlfriend and your turned your relationship into a professional one. No one from your previous job is mad at you. If you want to hang out with them you can, although that depends more on how you guys got along before and whether they want to be friends with a work person, etc.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:28 AM on May 29, 2012 [2 favorites]


I bet, somewhere beyond this photo, there's another girl like you right now. You've written so much here because this situation, if not the guy, is really messing with your head. For your own sanity I think you need to disengage completely.
posted by mippy at 6:29 AM on May 29, 2012


Others have spoken well about the romantic component of this. I just want to add, seconding J. Wilson, that you did the right thing. Don't worry about hurting his feelings. As for your other coworkers, I doubt they'd judge you as a result of your cutting off contact with him. He probably wouldn't discuss it with them, and even if he did, I bet they'd think it was good of you to get out of the situation, if they knew anything about it. You could get back in touch with them if you want to talk to them, but please don't do it just hoping that they mention it to him.
posted by mlle valentine at 7:14 AM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yes you did the right thing, no you should not contact him. Ever. The very length of this question is enough to make me say that this person doesn't belong in your life. Really, good relationships almost never come out of a big mess of pain and drama, but when you're in the pain and drama it's easy to forget that.

As for how you deal with what happened: timing is an essential part of two people getting together. It's a good idea not to go after people in relationships. That's part of being a good person. You do it because you believe that relationships in general should be respected, and it remains the right thing to do even if those relationships eventually end. If you thought he was the right guy for you but he wasn't single when you met him, then he wasn't the right guy for you, because the time wasn't right.

Think about all the mental oxygen this guy is taking up for you. All the processing cycles that he's occupying that would be better spent on anything else. Nothing good can come from re-introducing him into your life.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:19 AM on May 29, 2012 [3 favorites]


I don't think you should try to get in touch with him again. The fact that he could look "intently in your face" in one moment and then blush and get distant the next, struck me immediately as manipulative behavior.

It is really important for your well-being to realize that men who are sincere in wanting a loving, equal, adult relationship with you and not just an ego boost from flirting with you will not run hot and cold like this. They won't always run "hot," but they also won't completely cut you off or ignore you like this guy did whenever someone more advantageous (i.e. a person in a position of power like the administrator) came along to flirt.

Having been in this exact place before (feeling vulnerable, falling in love with a charming man who had zero intentions of pursuing a relationship with me but never took it off the table because that would mean losing his ego stroke), I just want to tell you that even though the answers people are giving you will seem harsh at first, taking them to heart will be so helpful towards putting yourself in a better place. You are worth a man who is direct and sincere in his intentions with you. You are so much more than someone else's temporary ego boost. Don't contact him.
posted by houndsoflove at 7:27 AM on May 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


Is closure/ friendship still possible or a good idea?
My opinion is no and hell, no.

Aside from the fact that you are no longer friends/in contact/coworkers, nothing has changed. He is in a serious relationship. You are romantically attached to him. He did not/has not pursued you or given you any real indication that he is interested.

I sacrificed my love for him so that he could honor his commitment
This is not what happened. Thinking of it this way is probably what keeps you in the emotional quicksand with this guy and keeps you from attaining closure on your own.
posted by sm1tten at 9:35 AM on May 29, 2012 [10 favorites]


Everyone else is right on the money, but something that may make their hard-to-hear, hard-to-follow advice easier is that just because something didn't work out doesn't mean it wasn't a wonderful something. Just because he made you feel special and you didn't end up together doesn't mean the way he made you feel isn't authentic and that his feelings for you weren't also authentic.

The best thing about past relationships where you didn't make mistakes that hurt other people is that you can pick and choose what you want from them. Don't take the fact that things didn't work out a way that you imagined they might make you feel like all the interactions had no meaning. One of the best things about feeling loved and admired by someone who is wonderful is that you feel like you deserve it. It would be wonderful if we could all feel that worth without depending on other people, but it doesn't usually work out that way. Remember the way he made you feel and move on -- you know what you want from a relationship -- those feelings with none of the roadblocks or red flags. So go get them somewhere else and look wistfully, if not overwhelmingly, back at once was... emphasis on the 'was.'
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:49 AM on May 29, 2012 [4 favorites]


For God's sake, cut him off! There's like 7 billion people in the world.
posted by the foreground at 9:57 AM on May 29, 2012


Move on. You will find a better match with someone else.
posted by fullerenedream at 1:11 PM on May 29, 2012


What he's done to others, he'll do to you. Turn your back and walk (perferably run) away.
posted by KRS at 3:56 PM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


Thanks, everyone, for your responses. They are very valuable to me in moving forward. It will make me a more mature adult who won't give her heart without good reason the next time around.

I am going to have to let these responses sink in, for closure. I guess what I need to remember is that all of these hard times are lessons for me to be an evolved, better me when the right man comes.

I'm still open to receiving any more responses if there are any, so I'll be checking back here. Thanks, everyone.
posted by skylines at 6:12 PM on May 29, 2012 [1 favorite]


I forgot to mention that I won't contact him. Thanks, everyone, especially Errant. Take care.
posted by skylines at 10:36 AM on May 30, 2012


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