Domestic legs of international flights
May 17, 2012 6:16 AM Subscribe
I'm trying to wrestle with flights here, and none of the domestic options are very good. So I'm considering flying the domestic leg of an international flight instead. But I've got several questions.
I know I sound silly, but have never flown an international flight with a domestic leg, so here goes:
a) Is the domestic leg of an international flight is separate to a domestic flight, i.e. has only the one code, or is it just a domestic flight that has the additional international code too? In other words, is there actually an extra service or not by the domestic carrier?
b) If they are separate services, is it possible to find out what those domestic legs are, and book yourself in for only that leg?
My reasoning (again, please correct me if I'm wrong) is that international airports are open 24/7 so there might be more options to choose from that will allow me to get back to my destination very quickly.
Thanks.
I know I sound silly, but have never flown an international flight with a domestic leg, so here goes:
a) Is the domestic leg of an international flight is separate to a domestic flight, i.e. has only the one code, or is it just a domestic flight that has the additional international code too? In other words, is there actually an extra service or not by the domestic carrier?
b) If they are separate services, is it possible to find out what those domestic legs are, and book yourself in for only that leg?
My reasoning (again, please correct me if I'm wrong) is that international airports are open 24/7 so there might be more options to choose from that will allow me to get back to my destination very quickly.
Thanks.
Yes, please share more info!
I understand the following:
'none of the domestic options are very good. So I'm considering flying the domestic leg of an international flight instead.'
as:
You are in city A and want to go to city B, but the flights are expensive and/or otherwise inconvenient.
So you are thinking if you booked a flight from ForeignCountryCityC that was going through city A and to city B it would be cheaper/better.
Please note that if this is one carrier (or IIRC if all flights/legs are booked together as one itinerary) if you don't show up for flight 1 (ForeignCountryCityC to city A) all the following flights get cancelled.
I hope someone else can provide more info on that.
posted by travelwithcats at 6:38 AM on May 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I understand the following:
'none of the domestic options are very good. So I'm considering flying the domestic leg of an international flight instead.'
as:
You are in city A and want to go to city B, but the flights are expensive and/or otherwise inconvenient.
So you are thinking if you booked a flight from ForeignCountryCityC that was going through city A and to city B it would be cheaper/better.
Please note that if this is one carrier (or IIRC if all flights/legs are booked together as one itinerary) if you don't show up for flight 1 (ForeignCountryCityC to city A) all the following flights get cancelled.
I hope someone else can provide more info on that.
posted by travelwithcats at 6:38 AM on May 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
What's your route?
I don't think this is a thing the way you think it is. I recently flew from -- I'm not sure, but it may have been Chicago to New York. The flight had continuing service to Germany, or something like that. Is this the kind of thing you're talking about? Because I booked it and traveled as a domestic flight, and there were no observable differences in any way. It would not help with your dilemma.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:44 AM on May 17, 2012
I don't think this is a thing the way you think it is. I recently flew from -- I'm not sure, but it may have been Chicago to New York. The flight had continuing service to Germany, or something like that. Is this the kind of thing you're talking about? Because I booked it and traveled as a domestic flight, and there were no observable differences in any way. It would not help with your dilemma.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:44 AM on May 17, 2012
Travelwithcats and carter are right. You additionally get into trouble with a roundtrip. If you don't show up for any part of the flight, all subsequent flights, including your return ticket, get cancelled.
I'm not quite sure if you're doing something that involves a stop abroad, or is direct between your two cities.
The first scenario would be like: you are trying to fly Boston-Detroit. The Boston-Vancouver flight stops in Detroit and is cheap. You want to get off the plane in Detroit when you stop. If you do this, the airline will cancel your subsequent tickets. Also, you might not be allowed to get off the plane in some situations, if it is just a refuel stop.
The second scenario would be: you are trying to fly Boston-Detroit. You can get cheap tickets for Boston-Toronto-Detroit, and you want to do that. That would be fine, if just annoying with customs.
Could you clarify? Giving the city pair will help as well.
posted by quadrilaterals at 6:46 AM on May 17, 2012
I'm not quite sure if you're doing something that involves a stop abroad, or is direct between your two cities.
The first scenario would be like: you are trying to fly Boston-Detroit. The Boston-Vancouver flight stops in Detroit and is cheap. You want to get off the plane in Detroit when you stop. If you do this, the airline will cancel your subsequent tickets. Also, you might not be allowed to get off the plane in some situations, if it is just a refuel stop.
The second scenario would be: you are trying to fly Boston-Detroit. You can get cheap tickets for Boston-Toronto-Detroit, and you want to do that. That would be fine, if just annoying with customs.
Could you clarify? Giving the city pair will help as well.
posted by quadrilaterals at 6:46 AM on May 17, 2012
To answer the other questions:
a) It is one flight with one code, does not matter what other connections you have before/after the flight, does not matter if they are international or domestic. No additional service.
b) You can find out what the legs are, you can book separate legs. Not sure what the confusion here is, you just book a regular flight. (One leg = one flight)
c) International airports are not all the same, there are hubs that are indeed open 24/7 but some countries have restrictions (say between 1 am - 5 am no flights go in or out). And again it depends what your cities are: even if there are frequent flights going from ForeignCountryCityC to Salt Lake City, you could still be stuck there because the domestic connections to where you want to go are not that frequent.
posted by travelwithcats at 6:55 AM on May 17, 2012
a) It is one flight with one code, does not matter what other connections you have before/after the flight, does not matter if they are international or domestic. No additional service.
b) You can find out what the legs are, you can book separate legs. Not sure what the confusion here is, you just book a regular flight. (One leg = one flight)
c) International airports are not all the same, there are hubs that are indeed open 24/7 but some countries have restrictions (say between 1 am - 5 am no flights go in or out). And again it depends what your cities are: even if there are frequent flights going from ForeignCountryCityC to Salt Lake City, you could still be stuck there because the domestic connections to where you want to go are not that frequent.
posted by travelwithcats at 6:55 AM on May 17, 2012
I think I understand ... You can:
a) Book the whole flight as one itinerary. The connections are set, and you will have to fly all the segments on this itinerary.
b) Book separate international and domestic flights, on an itinerary that suits you. You'll have to figure out the connections yourself.
I usually just go with one itinerary, it seems easier to me.
posted by carter at 7:00 AM on May 17, 2012
a) Book the whole flight as one itinerary. The connections are set, and you will have to fly all the segments on this itinerary.
b) Book separate international and domestic flights, on an itinerary that suits you. You'll have to figure out the connections yourself.
I usually just go with one itinerary, it seems easier to me.
posted by carter at 7:00 AM on May 17, 2012
Response by poster: Yeah sorry it was confusing. So I'm trying to catch a red eye from Sydney to Perth but the last flight leaves at around 8pm, when the seminar I'm going to finishes at 9:30pm. I've tried just about every other combination--via Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane, and they're no good.
So I was wondering, if for example there's a SQ flight SYD-PER-SNG or MAS flight SYD-PER-KL or QF SYD-PER-anywhere in the world:
a) Would the SYD-PER segment be a domestic share? (i.e. it's the same aircraft going across and hence it's not an additional service)
b) Are there rules saying that the only passengers allowed on that segment are those who will be travelling to the final international destination?
c) Subject to the above being possible, is there a quick way to find out which international flights have such segments?
NB: I don't know if any of the above services exist, but I don't think they're implausible, hence c).
posted by glache at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2012
So I was wondering, if for example there's a SQ flight SYD-PER-SNG or MAS flight SYD-PER-KL or QF SYD-PER-anywhere in the world:
a) Would the SYD-PER segment be a domestic share? (i.e. it's the same aircraft going across and hence it's not an additional service)
b) Are there rules saying that the only passengers allowed on that segment are those who will be travelling to the final international destination?
c) Subject to the above being possible, is there a quick way to find out which international flights have such segments?
NB: I don't know if any of the above services exist, but I don't think they're implausible, hence c).
posted by glache at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2012
It does not matter what carrier it is (SQ, MAS, QF) or what their final destination is. You should be able to see ALL the flight that leave SYD that day, no matter where they go.
a) SYD-PER could be a domestic carrier or could be Austrian Airlines for example (anything really, it is an agreement between the carriers who carries out which leg - but you can see it before you book online)
b) No such rule. But note comments above. If you book a flight with 3 legs but only fly 2, leg 3 is automatically cancelled. If you book a round trip (SYD-PER -KL + KL-PER-SYD) but only fly SYD-PER the flight back (KL-SYD-PER) will be cancelled.
c) Just check some online booking service like expedia.com.au
posted by travelwithcats at 7:35 AM on May 17, 2012
a) SYD-PER could be a domestic carrier or could be Austrian Airlines for example (anything really, it is an agreement between the carriers who carries out which leg - but you can see it before you book online)
b) No such rule. But note comments above. If you book a flight with 3 legs but only fly 2, leg 3 is automatically cancelled. If you book a round trip (SYD-PER -KL + KL-PER-SYD) but only fly SYD-PER the flight back (KL-SYD-PER) will be cancelled.
c) Just check some online booking service like expedia.com.au
posted by travelwithcats at 7:35 AM on May 17, 2012
Thanks for the additional info.
I just did some extensive travel stuff in the South Pacific. I think that any flight that would do SYD-PER would offer that with the final destination as PER. If they don't ticket it like that, it's because you're not allowed to get off.
For example, for Kinshasa-Brussels, the plane stops in Cameroon. That stop is not listed as a stop, because you are absolutely not allowed to get off the plane; it's just refueling. The airline does not ticket Kinshasa-Cameroon. (A traveler wanted to get off to go visit his mother, but you just can't get off the plane. They don't let you, and you cannot buy a ticket for just DRC-Cameroon.)
However, another airline runs flights Johannesburg-JFK that stop in Dakar. You can buy a ticket for Joburg-Dakar, because you are allowed to get off the plane there.
So - if the airline doesn't ticket the SYD-PER leg directly, then, you may not be able to get off the plane at PER, even if the aircraft technically touches down.
I would mess around with the ITA matrix here. That said, my searches show that airlines simply don't run flights through Perth that late.
posted by quadrilaterals at 7:36 AM on May 17, 2012
I just did some extensive travel stuff in the South Pacific. I think that any flight that would do SYD-PER would offer that with the final destination as PER. If they don't ticket it like that, it's because you're not allowed to get off.
For example, for Kinshasa-Brussels, the plane stops in Cameroon. That stop is not listed as a stop, because you are absolutely not allowed to get off the plane; it's just refueling. The airline does not ticket Kinshasa-Cameroon. (A traveler wanted to get off to go visit his mother, but you just can't get off the plane. They don't let you, and you cannot buy a ticket for just DRC-Cameroon.)
However, another airline runs flights Johannesburg-JFK that stop in Dakar. You can buy a ticket for Joburg-Dakar, because you are allowed to get off the plane there.
So - if the airline doesn't ticket the SYD-PER leg directly, then, you may not be able to get off the plane at PER, even if the aircraft technically touches down.
I would mess around with the ITA matrix here. That said, my searches show that airlines simply don't run flights through Perth that late.
posted by quadrilaterals at 7:36 AM on May 17, 2012
Hmm, I'm pretty sure that any SYD-PER-SIN itinerary (for example) would use domestic flights in Australia, based on partnerships in wider alliances (e.g. Star Alliance), to feed into the international connection to Singapore. So if a late SYD-PER connection does not exist when booking domestic flights, it's unlikely to exist as part of an international itinerary either.
posted by carter at 7:37 AM on May 17, 2012
posted by carter at 7:37 AM on May 17, 2012
Oh, and here's the international flight schedule for all flights through Perth in April 2012. Peruse, and call airlines - you might get lucky. But also, don't trust the airlines, because at least 50% of the time the person on the phone is incorrect in a way that's not in your favor.
posted by quadrilaterals at 7:38 AM on May 17, 2012
posted by quadrilaterals at 7:38 AM on May 17, 2012
On preview, I was going to say what quadrilaterals said. It depends, but if they ticket legs independently (as well as the whole route), the legs will show up on your searches. (In fact, in my experience, you often don't know that the plane started somewhere or is continuing to somewhere else until you get to the airport.)
It looks like the last domestic flight out of Sydney is 10pm to Brisbane. I couldn't get the Sydney airport website to load the international departures for some reason.
posted by hoyland at 7:43 AM on May 17, 2012
It looks like the last domestic flight out of Sydney is 10pm to Brisbane. I couldn't get the Sydney airport website to load the international departures for some reason.
posted by hoyland at 7:43 AM on May 17, 2012
I think flight can't leave Sydney after 11pm due to the curfew, can you even make it there on time after your 9:30pm seminar?
posted by defcom1 at 7:44 AM on May 17, 2012
posted by defcom1 at 7:44 AM on May 17, 2012
Also, I think it'd be unlikely to have any "red eyes" from Sydney to Perth anyway -- airlines typically run red eyes west-to-east to take advantage of the time difference. The other way around, a flight leaving Sydney after 11 pm would get into Perth at some ungodly time like 3 am, when the vast majority of people do not want to arrive.
posted by andrewesque at 7:48 AM on May 17, 2012
posted by andrewesque at 7:48 AM on May 17, 2012
There is a 10:05 quantas flight to melbourne (QF 497), but it looks like you'll be stuck there for the night.
posted by defcom1 at 7:48 AM on May 17, 2012
posted by defcom1 at 7:48 AM on May 17, 2012
a) It would be a domestic share... it might not be the same aircraft, but it would be a domestic flight. When you checked in in Sydney, you would receive two boarding passes, one for QF123 SYD-PER and a second for QF456 PER-SNG. You would board the SYD-PER flight with a bunch of people going from Sydney to Perth and surrounding, to Singapore, to Kuala Lumpur, etc. etc. In Perth, the real international travellers would change planes and board the PER-SNG flight with other travellers heading to Singapore, including but not limited to other passengers from the Sydney flight. (But mixed with folks who live in Perth, or have flown in from Adelaide, Melbourne, tc.)
b) So no, there are no rules about only passengers allowed who are continuing to international destinations. But watch out for that return flight issue. If you booked it one way, it would work IN THEORY, but I don't think it would be useful because...
c) ...your search for domestic flights will already have included these "domestic segments" of international trips, because they aren't separated from other domestic flights in any way.
Have you asked a travel agent about this? They might be able to find some magic travel agent solution, or they might be able to tell you definitively that it's not possible to fly SYD-PER that late at night. Have you considered time zones and airport closing times?
posted by snorkmaiden at 7:57 AM on May 17, 2012
b) So no, there are no rules about only passengers allowed who are continuing to international destinations. But watch out for that return flight issue. If you booked it one way, it would work IN THEORY, but I don't think it would be useful because...
c) ...your search for domestic flights will already have included these "domestic segments" of international trips, because they aren't separated from other domestic flights in any way.
Have you asked a travel agent about this? They might be able to find some magic travel agent solution, or they might be able to tell you definitively that it's not possible to fly SYD-PER that late at night. Have you considered time zones and airport closing times?
posted by snorkmaiden at 7:57 AM on May 17, 2012
And if, on preview, your seminar ends at 9:30pm and the latest flights out of Sydney are around 10pm, could you even get to the airport on time? Where is your seminar and when does check in end for the 10pm flights? What if your seminar runs 10 minutes overtime? I don't think it would be a good bet.
posted by snorkmaiden at 7:59 AM on May 17, 2012
posted by snorkmaiden at 7:59 AM on May 17, 2012
One thing to be careful of -- if you're booked with an international itinerary, the airline may require you to show a passport (and destination visa, if applicable) to get on your first flight. I've had air carriers ask to see these on the first (domestic) leg of an international itinerary. They didn't do it for everyone on the domestic flight, but my tickets printed out with a message - "INTL - Destination visa required" so they checked it.
This was in the US; I do not know if all US carriers do it or if Australian carriers would do it.
posted by jdwhite at 9:26 AM on May 17, 2012
This was in the US; I do not know if all US carriers do it or if Australian carriers would do it.
posted by jdwhite at 9:26 AM on May 17, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks for all the answers. I'm just surprised NOTHING flies out of Syd that late to anywhere else except Melb, which thanks andrewsque, would be due to the time difference. Perth has 2 red eyes to Brisbane and Melbourne (both leave just after midnight) so I thought a bigger airport like Syd would. No I haven't booked this seminar yet, it's contingent on what flights I can take back, but it's something I really, really want to do so yes I'm searching flights very thoroughly.
posted by glache at 6:10 PM on May 17, 2012
posted by glache at 6:10 PM on May 17, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
You will probably have to do immigration, collect your bag, and go through customs at airport B, before looking for your flight to airport C.
What's your route?
posted by carter at 6:26 AM on May 17, 2012