I would totally watch the Real Housewives of Astoria btw
April 11, 2012 7:01 AM Subscribe
What are the best practices in friendships with income disparities?
My husband and I are lucky enough to make a comfortable living -- not that we're living Real Housewives of Astoria lifestyles, but we don't have to be super careful about money all the time. It happens that at the moment, several of my closest friends *do* have to be super careful about money, with their grad student or Americorps stipends. I still haven't figured out how best to handle this during our fun times with these friends.
I already try to be sensitive to spending money -- suggest meeting at bars with good happy hour specials or at free events, or inviting people over rather than go out. But I'd love to do more -- pick up the check most of the time, for example. My husband thinks this is condescending, but I just see it as logical. I like spending time with my friends, and I like for my friends to have fewer worries in their lives, and so I'd like them not to have to worry about the bar tab while we're spending time together. But it always feels a little awkward, and I wonder if maybe he's right.
I was thinking of this especially lately, as we're getting ready to move to a new apartment. I hate packing, and would be happy to pay someone to help me pack. I know my friend could use a side job. Wouldn't it make more sense for me to offer to pay her rather than a random moving company off Craigslist to help me pack? But isn't that weird, to hand my friend a stack of money? How would I even bring it up?
I guess generally I'd like to hear pointers on how to handle income disparity between friends. If you've been in this situation on either side, do you find it's best not to mention it, or to put it all out in the open, or to quietly pick up the tab once in awhile, or what?
My husband and I are lucky enough to make a comfortable living -- not that we're living Real Housewives of Astoria lifestyles, but we don't have to be super careful about money all the time. It happens that at the moment, several of my closest friends *do* have to be super careful about money, with their grad student or Americorps stipends. I still haven't figured out how best to handle this during our fun times with these friends.
I already try to be sensitive to spending money -- suggest meeting at bars with good happy hour specials or at free events, or inviting people over rather than go out. But I'd love to do more -- pick up the check most of the time, for example. My husband thinks this is condescending, but I just see it as logical. I like spending time with my friends, and I like for my friends to have fewer worries in their lives, and so I'd like them not to have to worry about the bar tab while we're spending time together. But it always feels a little awkward, and I wonder if maybe he's right.
I was thinking of this especially lately, as we're getting ready to move to a new apartment. I hate packing, and would be happy to pay someone to help me pack. I know my friend could use a side job. Wouldn't it make more sense for me to offer to pay her rather than a random moving company off Craigslist to help me pack? But isn't that weird, to hand my friend a stack of money? How would I even bring it up?
I guess generally I'd like to hear pointers on how to handle income disparity between friends. If you've been in this situation on either side, do you find it's best not to mention it, or to put it all out in the open, or to quietly pick up the tab once in awhile, or what?
Best answer: So long as you don't bring up the reason you're getting the tab is because you have more money then they do, it's not condescending. There's a difference between, "I got the tab because I can afford it" and "Hey, I got the tab. No, I'm sure. I really want to!" - err on the side of the second version.
As for your friend and packing. Could you call and say, "Hey! I haaaaate packing. I'm thinking of paying someone to do it for me, I hate it that much. You wouldn't be interested in packing for me, would you? I would pay you $blahblah per hour/box/day.."
Make these things about you and what you want. Not about the money.
(I do not have disposable income, while my coworker/friend is much better off then I am. She was always paying for meals and I noticed after awhile that it looked like I was taking advantage of her generosity. Since then I've insisted on paying for myself on occasion when she didn't push too hard. Do let your friends pay sometimes, even if you don't think they can afford it)
posted by royalsong at 7:13 AM on April 11, 2012 [7 favorites]
As for your friend and packing. Could you call and say, "Hey! I haaaaate packing. I'm thinking of paying someone to do it for me, I hate it that much. You wouldn't be interested in packing for me, would you? I would pay you $blahblah per hour/box/day.."
Make these things about you and what you want. Not about the money.
(I do not have disposable income, while my coworker/friend is much better off then I am. She was always paying for meals and I noticed after awhile that it looked like I was taking advantage of her generosity. Since then I've insisted on paying for myself on occasion when she didn't push too hard. Do let your friends pay sometimes, even if you don't think they can afford it)
posted by royalsong at 7:13 AM on April 11, 2012 [7 favorites]
A common technique: establish rotation of who picks up the check. Start by going someplace fancy/nice/expensive and picking up the check, when they object, tell them they can treat next time. Make sure next time is something fun but inexpensive. Don't be too obvious about it. Also see if you can pay attention to their funding source; if you know that they tend to have more money at a certain point in the month, line things up appropriately.
As for moving? Get a quote from random moving company. Then say to your friend that it's better to pay a friend. If you can't get over the paying a friend thing, then make a point of letting them help and then making sure you repay them by picking up the check however many times is appropriate. Great excuse to go a little overboard if you go that route, so that may be exactly what you need.
posted by jgreco at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
As for moving? Get a quote from random moving company. Then say to your friend that it's better to pay a friend. If you can't get over the paying a friend thing, then make a point of letting them help and then making sure you repay them by picking up the check however many times is appropriate. Great excuse to go a little overboard if you go that route, so that may be exactly what you need.
posted by jgreco at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Especially when it's something as easily obvious as Americorps or grad school, I have no problem saying "let me get this one" and then letting the friend getting a future, less expensive check. I'll even say that they can get me back when they're graduated and are making the big bucks.
Paying a friend to pack does seem weirder. Maybe if they offer to help you can get them a gift card. But you know you're friend better, and if you think they'd honestly answer a "hey, I'm going to have to pay for packers anyway, do you want the job?", go for it. Good friends can handle talking about money.
posted by ldthomps at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Paying a friend to pack does seem weirder. Maybe if they offer to help you can get them a gift card. But you know you're friend better, and if you think they'd honestly answer a "hey, I'm going to have to pay for packers anyway, do you want the job?", go for it. Good friends can handle talking about money.
posted by ldthomps at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Your husband is pretty much right. You can insist on picking up the tab for a little lunch, a couple beers or similar once in awhile (maybe once a month?), but any more than that would make me feel weird were I on the receiving end.
I would also feel weird if my friend offered to pay me to pack her house. I would not feel weird if my friend asked if I could come over and help her pack, then stay for dinner, be it steaks and wine or pizza and beer, as "payment." Friends help each other with odious tasks, they don't pay friends to perform odious tasks for them. There's a line between friendship and a business transaction - paying for chores crosses that line.
I like the idea of inviting people over a lot and providing food and drink. That way your less well-off friends can bring a $14 bottle of wine and feel like they've contributed without breaking the bank on cocktails.
posted by CheeseLouise at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I would also feel weird if my friend offered to pay me to pack her house. I would not feel weird if my friend asked if I could come over and help her pack, then stay for dinner, be it steaks and wine or pizza and beer, as "payment." Friends help each other with odious tasks, they don't pay friends to perform odious tasks for them. There's a line between friendship and a business transaction - paying for chores crosses that line.
I like the idea of inviting people over a lot and providing food and drink. That way your less well-off friends can bring a $14 bottle of wine and feel like they've contributed without breaking the bank on cocktails.
posted by CheeseLouise at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think you can offer to pay your friends for work. "Hey, I need help, and I'm willing to pay for it." I've had friends do that to me, and have been okay with it.
Key is your attitude during the work. Don't act like a boss, act like a friend being helped out.
posted by entropone at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
Key is your attitude during the work. Don't act like a boss, act like a friend being helped out.
posted by entropone at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
If you pick up the check most of the time, you will quickly find that one of two things will happen: 1) the friend will have a strong sense of reciprocity and will feel bad, possibly ashamed, that they can't reciprocate, and will stop putting themselves in a position for this to happen, or 2) the friend will surprisingly turn out to have no sense of reciprocity or even appreciation for your gesture, and you'll start to feel resentful. Also, I think paying friends for labor introduces a weird non-friend element that's best avoided. The best thing by far is to stick with free events or invite people to your home, that way they can reciprocate by inviting you to their home.
posted by HotToddy at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2012 [14 favorites]
Also really do yourself the favour of hiring movers. They pack soooooo much better than "regular" people. Plus as a friend you are obligated to help with the move but no one likes doing it. Give everyone a break and hire a crew.
posted by saradarlin at 7:15 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by saradarlin at 7:15 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think it depends on the friends, but as a recent grad student I wouldn't let a friend pick up the check for that reason. I would not be comfortable with that - I would suggest that we go somewhere else or that I couldn't go out as often. I don't think offering to pick up the check is the logical thing to do - human relations seem to defy logic in most cases anyway - and it could come off as condescending to suggest something like that.
As far as the moving goes, I would be happy to help you pack but I wouldn't want you to pay me. In that case if you wanted to "pay me" by taking me out to dinner or something, picking up the check would be fine, but I think it would be fine even if there were not income disparity.
I would avoid calling attention to the income disparity and try to respect it without explicitly bringing it up.
posted by fromageball at 7:17 AM on April 11, 2012
As far as the moving goes, I would be happy to help you pack but I wouldn't want you to pay me. In that case if you wanted to "pay me" by taking me out to dinner or something, picking up the check would be fine, but I think it would be fine even if there were not income disparity.
I would avoid calling attention to the income disparity and try to respect it without explicitly bringing it up.
posted by fromageball at 7:17 AM on April 11, 2012
Best answer: I have had friends hire me to do work without it being at all awkward. They key is how you ask.
You can tell them that you are going to hire someone from Craigslist to pack for you, and are going to pay them X$ an hour, but would rather hire a friend to do it if at all possible because it would feel less weird than having a stranger pawing through your stuff. Tell your friend they would be doing YOU a favor, and that if they can't do it themselves you'd appreciate suggestions as to who else you should ask. Make sure the emphasis is on how YOU have a problem that you need someone else's help to solve.
The key is not to frame it as "You need cash, so I'll give you a job because I feel badly and want to help you out." That's the kind of approach that can make people feel pitied or condescended to.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:17 AM on April 11, 2012 [10 favorites]
You can tell them that you are going to hire someone from Craigslist to pack for you, and are going to pay them X$ an hour, but would rather hire a friend to do it if at all possible because it would feel less weird than having a stranger pawing through your stuff. Tell your friend they would be doing YOU a favor, and that if they can't do it themselves you'd appreciate suggestions as to who else you should ask. Make sure the emphasis is on how YOU have a problem that you need someone else's help to solve.
The key is not to frame it as "You need cash, so I'll give you a job because I feel badly and want to help you out." That's the kind of approach that can make people feel pitied or condescended to.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:17 AM on April 11, 2012 [10 favorites]
You could also host potluck dinners at your house, everyone bring a dish and you'll provide the (expensive) drinks. That way everyone contributes.
Since you're moving to a new home soon you could start with a house-warming party and then turn it into a monthly potluck.
posted by mareli at 7:19 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Since you're moving to a new home soon you could start with a house-warming party and then turn it into a monthly potluck.
posted by mareli at 7:19 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: At bars, buying lots of rounds is much less of a Big Deal than picking up the whole tab.
I've found that this is especially true if you're paying for each round individually, and you have some sort of rotation thing going on re: who's buying this round. When things get a little more hectic, someone always ends up paying more than the others. You can easily be this person by being proactive, and it comes off more as "the friend in a good mood buying tons of rounds" than "the friend that doesn't think I can afford to pay for my own drinks".
The added benefit of doing it this way is that if you end up paying for 5 rounds and they pay for 2, they're still coming out 3 rounds ahead but it becomes an exchange between friends that don't keep score rather than a charity case.
posted by hot soup at 7:31 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
I've found that this is especially true if you're paying for each round individually, and you have some sort of rotation thing going on re: who's buying this round. When things get a little more hectic, someone always ends up paying more than the others. You can easily be this person by being proactive, and it comes off more as "the friend in a good mood buying tons of rounds" than "the friend that doesn't think I can afford to pay for my own drinks".
The added benefit of doing it this way is that if you end up paying for 5 rounds and they pay for 2, they're still coming out 3 rounds ahead but it becomes an exchange between friends that don't keep score rather than a charity case.
posted by hot soup at 7:31 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
For years I had friends who made significantly less than me. We handled it by going to places that everyone could afford, or hanging out at someone's house/apartment and bringing our own whatever. Coffee get-togethers or movie/gameplaying nights at someone's place are cheap and fun. No need for noblesse oblige unless someone really goes beyond the pale in terms of doing something for you.
You also don't need to ask them "can you afford this?" all the time, unless what you want to do is obviously pricey. It's up to the person who can't afford it to speak up.
I wouldn't hire friends - business and pleasure don't mix. If something goes wrong, you want to be able to have some recourse without the concomitant loss/strain of a friendship. What happens if she/he has an injury during the move? A lawsuit is not beyond the realm of possibility there. That's why Bog made liability and worker's comp insurance, both of which a reputable mover will carry.
posted by Currer Belfry at 7:33 AM on April 11, 2012
You also don't need to ask them "can you afford this?" all the time, unless what you want to do is obviously pricey. It's up to the person who can't afford it to speak up.
I wouldn't hire friends - business and pleasure don't mix. If something goes wrong, you want to be able to have some recourse without the concomitant loss/strain of a friendship. What happens if she/he has an injury during the move? A lawsuit is not beyond the realm of possibility there. That's why Bog made liability and worker's comp insurance, both of which a reputable mover will carry.
posted by Currer Belfry at 7:33 AM on April 11, 2012
Sorry, I meant to say that the added benefit is that they still get to buy you drinks.
I always feel like an inequitable trade is much better than taking/giving a donation, because the thought counts for something.
posted by hot soup at 7:34 AM on April 11, 2012
I always feel like an inequitable trade is much better than taking/giving a donation, because the thought counts for something.
posted by hot soup at 7:34 AM on April 11, 2012
Here's a few ideas for ya:
1. When you are planning, throw out a couple of ideas to your friends (some cheaper and some more expensive). This gives them a chance to do a little research and make a decision based on what they can afford. I know sometimes I can afford a fancy restaurant, and sometimes I need to eat somewhere cheaper with friends.
2. Consider purchasing a groupon for a more expensive place. (And be sure to tell them about it in advanced!)
3. When making plans, consider asking your friends to give you a range of how much money they'd like to spend.
posted by emilynoa at 7:38 AM on April 11, 2012
1. When you are planning, throw out a couple of ideas to your friends (some cheaper and some more expensive). This gives them a chance to do a little research and make a decision based on what they can afford. I know sometimes I can afford a fancy restaurant, and sometimes I need to eat somewhere cheaper with friends.
2. Consider purchasing a groupon for a more expensive place. (And be sure to tell them about it in advanced!)
3. When making plans, consider asking your friends to give you a range of how much money they'd like to spend.
posted by emilynoa at 7:38 AM on April 11, 2012
Best answer: IAAPGS (I am a poor graduate student). Going to grad school is a choice I made with the full knowledge that I wouldn't be raking in the cash, so I adjusted my lifestyle to fit my budget. I certainly don't see graduate school as a misfortune or something outside my control, so excessive concern about my finances feels kind of like an implicit disapproval of my life choices. I'm sure it's not in your case, and everyone loves being bought a drink once in a while, but your friends' lack of cash is really not your problem, or even business. Trust them to be adults with and make choices about their money, even if it's less money than you have.
Thant said, throwing great parties is always an awesome way to treat people without them feeling weird about it.
posted by oinopaponton at 7:40 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
Thant said, throwing great parties is always an awesome way to treat people without them feeling weird about it.
posted by oinopaponton at 7:40 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
I am the poorer friend, and yeah it's an issue. When my better off (ok, wayyyy) better off friend used to come to visit, we would rotate cheques. But I would be paying for lunch in Chinatown and she would pay for dinners at trendy places.
Paying someone to work for you is awkward (that type of offer just happened to me and it really lays it on the line 'the money you need is just a tiny bit of diposable money to me') if it is not in the field or interest area. Much better that they help and then you take them out somewhere they want to go (new york-centered answer) but can't comfortably afford.
I think it has to be rotated or it just gets too weird. Like the above commenter said- you either feel indebted or...you start to expect it, and vv or the negative feelings.
I don't know what the solution is, I'm really having a problem with it myself right now. To the extent that I am actively avoiding my better off friends because I find the whole situation upsetting and uncomfortable.
posted by bquarters at 7:42 AM on April 11, 2012
Paying someone to work for you is awkward (that type of offer just happened to me and it really lays it on the line 'the money you need is just a tiny bit of diposable money to me') if it is not in the field or interest area. Much better that they help and then you take them out somewhere they want to go (new york-centered answer) but can't comfortably afford.
I think it has to be rotated or it just gets too weird. Like the above commenter said- you either feel indebted or...you start to expect it, and vv or the negative feelings.
I don't know what the solution is, I'm really having a problem with it myself right now. To the extent that I am actively avoiding my better off friends because I find the whole situation upsetting and uncomfortable.
posted by bquarters at 7:42 AM on April 11, 2012
Data point: when I was struggling for cash, I was always eager to help my friends pack and move, especially if they were offering money.
Historical context: hiring your friends because you know they need the extra cash was always a thing that people used to do, and has only fallen out of fashion lately due to the "your career is what defines you" mentality that's been pervasive in our culture.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:45 AM on April 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
Historical context: hiring your friends because you know they need the extra cash was always a thing that people used to do, and has only fallen out of fashion lately due to the "your career is what defines you" mentality that's been pervasive in our culture.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:45 AM on April 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
If I was broke I'd love for a friend to say something like "Hey, I'm moving and this really sucks, want to come help me and I'll make it worth your while?".
It's not like I wouldn't help a good friend move anyway but, depending on the strapped for cash/blessed with funds ratio, I'd not refuse fair value for a day's sweat equity either.
The rotation policy of picking up checks via making sure you grab the expensive joints and they grab the checks at cheaper institutions sounds like a great idea IF you and your friends enjoy those type of places in the first place. Ditto for you hosting. One more trick is that if you have an teetotalers in the group you can honestly show appreciation for them being the DD by buying their dinner or whatever.
Besides outright deceiving practices I can't think of anything else.
Good for you for understanding that helping out true friends, even indirectly, at this point in their careers/life is a groovy thing to do and that they'll appreciate/reciprocate it at a later date.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:49 AM on April 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's not like I wouldn't help a good friend move anyway but, depending on the strapped for cash/blessed with funds ratio, I'd not refuse fair value for a day's sweat equity either.
The rotation policy of picking up checks via making sure you grab the expensive joints and they grab the checks at cheaper institutions sounds like a great idea IF you and your friends enjoy those type of places in the first place. Ditto for you hosting. One more trick is that if you have an teetotalers in the group you can honestly show appreciation for them being the DD by buying their dinner or whatever.
Besides outright deceiving practices I can't think of anything else.
Good for you for understanding that helping out true friends, even indirectly, at this point in their careers/life is a groovy thing to do and that they'll appreciate/reciprocate it at a later date.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:49 AM on April 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
I used to get paid by my wealthier friends to help them move or watch their pets, and I didn't think it was awkward, I thought it was thoughtful and it really helped me out.
posted by lakersfan1222 at 7:51 AM on April 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by lakersfan1222 at 7:51 AM on April 11, 2012 [4 favorites]
My experience with this is that it totally depends on the relationship with the friends. Is money something you're comfortable talking about? If there are awkward feelings, are you able to discuss them productively? These things really matter--if it's awkward, or emotional, or not discussed between you, you have to tread much more lightly, and options like going out to less expensive venues or having a party at home are going to the better choice.
In the past, we had a good friend who made much less money than us and was also temperamentally much more frugal. My partner and I preferred to pick up the tab so that the three of us could eat in a restaurant, say, rather than cook a meal at one of our homes. After some discussion, we were all comfortable with this, and it worked out well. More recently, money was very tight for my family, and my best friend took to paying for my dinner when we went out because she wanted to treat me to something nice, she wanted to have a drinks-and-appetizers kind of dinner instead of "let's get the Applebee's 2-for-$20 and drink water," and she felt it was more than fair given that I had been very generous with my time (caring for her son, for instance, and doing most of the driving to visit her an hour away). Now, my money situation is improving and I'm buying my own dinners again most of the time.
In the Facebook era, you can offer money for a job by posting it generally: "I'm looking to pay someone about $10/hour plus pizza and beer to help me pack and move this weekend. Any takers?" Then your friends who could use the money can volunteer themselves if they choose to.
posted by not that girl at 7:52 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
In the past, we had a good friend who made much less money than us and was also temperamentally much more frugal. My partner and I preferred to pick up the tab so that the three of us could eat in a restaurant, say, rather than cook a meal at one of our homes. After some discussion, we were all comfortable with this, and it worked out well. More recently, money was very tight for my family, and my best friend took to paying for my dinner when we went out because she wanted to treat me to something nice, she wanted to have a drinks-and-appetizers kind of dinner instead of "let's get the Applebee's 2-for-$20 and drink water," and she felt it was more than fair given that I had been very generous with my time (caring for her son, for instance, and doing most of the driving to visit her an hour away). Now, my money situation is improving and I'm buying my own dinners again most of the time.
In the Facebook era, you can offer money for a job by posting it generally: "I'm looking to pay someone about $10/hour plus pizza and beer to help me pack and move this weekend. Any takers?" Then your friends who could use the money can volunteer themselves if they choose to.
posted by not that girl at 7:52 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
I like the facebook idea because you're not targeting anyone specifically.
Very very bad idea, and bad precedent, to give cash to your friends. Recommend them to other people who need to hire someone but do not create an employer relationship with people who you want to treat as equals.
posted by moammargaret at 7:54 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Very very bad idea, and bad precedent, to give cash to your friends. Recommend them to other people who need to hire someone but do not create an employer relationship with people who you want to treat as equals.
posted by moammargaret at 7:54 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also if they're doing Americorps type stuff (and even certain Graduate programs, like social services or something) then I think it's a fair statement to say to a true friend "Look, you're doing some real good in my community at the cost of your pocketbook, I got this, thank you and keep on helping out the local kids/whales/elderly/hiking trails/whatever." and taking the check a bit more than would honestly be your share.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:55 AM on April 11, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:55 AM on April 11, 2012
Obligatory because moving can suck, and friends can, at times, feel abused if only offered token signs of appreciation. Plus you could link to it as well if you decide to post and say "Hey, who wants to help? I'll offer cash instead of 1 beer 'cuz The Oatmeal says so".
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:58 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:58 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
When a broke friend of mine gave me a hand getting some flat packed furniture from West Elm, I offered her a choice of gift cards: a $25 from Target or a $20 from Trader Joe's. When she chose the Target one, I told her it was a trick question and she was getting both. She laughed and took them both and there was no weirdness. I think we both would have felt differently if I'd just handed her a couple of twenties for some reason.
posted by 8dot3 at 8:12 AM on April 11, 2012
posted by 8dot3 at 8:12 AM on April 11, 2012
I think that it's a balance on paying for things - lots of good suggestions upthread about how to handle getting lunch/dinner/drinks. As far as whether it's awkward - it depends on how you frame it. In general I'll say something like, look, if the situation were reversed and you were more able to pay than I, I have no doubt you'd do the same for me. So I'm paying it forward because you're my friend and it's the right thing to do, and I'm sure you will do the same thing when you're able. Being generous with my friends is important to me, and I can, so I am going to, unless you are really super freaked out.
And then in general, people are fine. I've got a rep for taking care of what my family calls "strays" -- and I'm sure we have a name for it because we're all inveterate rescuers.
posted by Medieval Maven at 8:47 AM on April 11, 2012
And then in general, people are fine. I've got a rep for taking care of what my family calls "strays" -- and I'm sure we have a name for it because we're all inveterate rescuers.
posted by Medieval Maven at 8:47 AM on April 11, 2012
I think this totally depends on your friends.
my gut resopnse is no, you can't hire your friends to pack up your apartment, but this really depends on your friends, and several people upthread think differently than I. When my unemployed grad student best friend painted my new apartment (she offered, and I said I would pay), she would not take my money after she finished, she said it made her feel too weird. Instead I bought her dinner a bunch of times and a gift.
It's easier to pick up the tab for meals if you are ordering in or hosting, and you can always ask them to bring movies or board games or something. You can make it a point when at a bar to be the one to pick up the next round of drinks, rather than the whole tab.
But in the end, it really depends on your friends. Some people can accept gracefully, some people would feel like a charity case, it really depends on the person. I'd also say not to make it a big deal if your friends insist on paying sometimes. If you do, you run the risk of looking patronizing; they're adults who can make their own financial decisions.
posted by inertia at 8:58 AM on April 11, 2012
my gut resopnse is no, you can't hire your friends to pack up your apartment, but this really depends on your friends, and several people upthread think differently than I. When my unemployed grad student best friend painted my new apartment (she offered, and I said I would pay), she would not take my money after she finished, she said it made her feel too weird. Instead I bought her dinner a bunch of times and a gift.
It's easier to pick up the tab for meals if you are ordering in or hosting, and you can always ask them to bring movies or board games or something. You can make it a point when at a bar to be the one to pick up the next round of drinks, rather than the whole tab.
But in the end, it really depends on your friends. Some people can accept gracefully, some people would feel like a charity case, it really depends on the person. I'd also say not to make it a big deal if your friends insist on paying sometimes. If you do, you run the risk of looking patronizing; they're adults who can make their own financial decisions.
posted by inertia at 8:58 AM on April 11, 2012
I had friends who make waaaaaaaay more money than me...they literally made more in three months than I made in a year.
They knew I couldn't afford anything, but they wanted my company. So, they paid for everything we did. Everything; even stuff I could afford. They weren't buying my friendship; they just wanted me to be in their lives and I couldn't afford even the gas to see them, so they came to me then they would drive and pay for whatever we did.
It worked great and I didn't feel resentful at all.
posted by TinWhistle at 9:00 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
They knew I couldn't afford anything, but they wanted my company. So, they paid for everything we did. Everything; even stuff I could afford. They weren't buying my friendship; they just wanted me to be in their lives and I couldn't afford even the gas to see them, so they came to me then they would drive and pay for whatever we did.
It worked great and I didn't feel resentful at all.
posted by TinWhistle at 9:00 AM on April 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
I disagree with the above answers about not hiring your friends. When I was very very broke in college. I had friends hire me to clean their apartment. So way more of a thing that could potentially cause weirdness than helping someone move. But it was totally fine for me and not weird at all and I was extremely happy about the chance to get that extra money.
I think partly it depends on your friend's attitude and feelings towards doing that kind of work and doing it for friends. You know them better than we do. If they are the sort that would feel ashamed and degraded by that then obviously don't do it. But not everyone would feel that way.
In my situation my frirends were going to hire someone anyway, so it wasn't like they came up with something for me to do as a way to give me charity. That money was going to go to someone so I thought it might as well go to me. I also let them know I'd be interested in doing it, when they first brought up the idea of hiring someone. So maybe you could bring up the moving thing in such a way that your friends could volunteer to do it for $ if they were interested?
posted by cairdeas at 10:00 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think partly it depends on your friend's attitude and feelings towards doing that kind of work and doing it for friends. You know them better than we do. If they are the sort that would feel ashamed and degraded by that then obviously don't do it. But not everyone would feel that way.
In my situation my frirends were going to hire someone anyway, so it wasn't like they came up with something for me to do as a way to give me charity. That money was going to go to someone so I thought it might as well go to me. I also let them know I'd be interested in doing it, when they first brought up the idea of hiring someone. So maybe you could bring up the moving thing in such a way that your friends could volunteer to do it for $ if they were interested?
posted by cairdeas at 10:00 AM on April 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think it really depends on the personalities involved. Among my friends, though, it isn't a problem. We have a friend who cleans our house for £20 a week because she's a single mum who's completely broke and we framed it as asking her whether she knew anyone who'd be interested in the job, oh and by the way if you wanted to do it yourself we'd be more than delighted. We also have a very wealthy friend we go on holiday with who pays the rent on a holiday cottage we all share. It's all good, but I do think you have to approach the matter with tact so that no one gets their feelings hurt.
posted by hazyjane at 10:10 AM on April 11, 2012
posted by hazyjane at 10:10 AM on April 11, 2012
I agree it depends on the personalities. I do all right for myself, but I have friends who make a lot more money than I do. When we go out together, I let them pick up more than their fair share of the tab sometimes. If one of them is in my town, hell yes I let him take me out to dinner! I don't think I have any friends who I would hire to pack my house up but I certainly have cousins who I would offer the job to. Also, if I'm out of town, I will offer to loan my car to friends who don't have cars (this one can go either way - some of my friends without cars have loads more disposable income than I do!).
I think with really good friends, you can get past the tit-for-tat business. Sometimes the "poor" friend is allowed to say, "Dude, I can't afford that, you wanna come over and have spaghetti at my house?" and sometimes the "rich" friend is allowed to say, "Let me get the check this time" or give the poor friend back too much change.
The OP was asking mostly about the etiquette of the friend with more money, but I think there's a lot to be said for being gracious in accepting your friends' largesse.
posted by mskyle at 10:50 AM on April 11, 2012
I think with really good friends, you can get past the tit-for-tat business. Sometimes the "poor" friend is allowed to say, "Dude, I can't afford that, you wanna come over and have spaghetti at my house?" and sometimes the "rich" friend is allowed to say, "Let me get the check this time" or give the poor friend back too much change.
The OP was asking mostly about the etiquette of the friend with more money, but I think there's a lot to be said for being gracious in accepting your friends' largesse.
posted by mskyle at 10:50 AM on April 11, 2012
I think it depends how stretched for money your friends are. When I was really pushed for cash, and my friends knew that, I was immensely grateful to the friend who pushed through the weirdness and paid me to help her move. I appreciated her understanding how much stress I was under, and that she could be friendly in that way, and it was great to be able to help her out with the move.
Honesty about income disparity and tackling it explicitly is something I really notice in a friend, even though I'm now more likely to be the one paying. The pain of not being able to afford stuff, and having your friends gloss over that because they think mentioning it will be awkward, is hugely isolating and undermines trust between you.
posted by pickingupsticks at 11:03 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Honesty about income disparity and tackling it explicitly is something I really notice in a friend, even though I'm now more likely to be the one paying. The pain of not being able to afford stuff, and having your friends gloss over that because they think mentioning it will be awkward, is hugely isolating and undermines trust between you.
posted by pickingupsticks at 11:03 AM on April 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: On the topic of paying a friend to help you with things - what does this person do with their time? Are odd jobs the kind of thing they'd do normally?
If I'm out of work and taking a few classes while I'm trying to find a better job, helping out a friend for cash sounds like heaven. If I'm in a long-term grad program involving taking classes, doing research, TAing, and getting a small stipend, an odd job with a cash bonus sounds great and I'd try to fit it in. If I'm in grad school 40 hrs/week, plus working in a coffeeshop 20 hours/week, plus busy with a hobby, the opportunity to spend my weekend working with/for a friend for $50-100 is totally unappealing and cuts into my few times to put my feet up and relax.
While I've never been insulted by an offer of food/cash/gifts/favors in exchange for favors/tasks/consulting/etc, I have been really frustrated by the assumption that if I don't have money, I must have time. So if a friend asks for my help it doesn't really matter if they offer me pizza, or $50, or $200 - they're my friend, and I'll help if I have time. But the assumption that I'd make the time for $200 is what can be hurtful, and turning down the job is not an indicator that I'm not really hurting for cash or that I don't like the person enough or that I like them too much to risk complications of "working for them". It's really about time and energy. Just because person A makes $100/hour during their day job and person B more like $10, that doesn't make B's off-hours any more or less valuable than A's. Respect for time goes a long way, and makes the disparity in incomes feel less consequential.
posted by aimedwander at 11:56 AM on April 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
If I'm out of work and taking a few classes while I'm trying to find a better job, helping out a friend for cash sounds like heaven. If I'm in a long-term grad program involving taking classes, doing research, TAing, and getting a small stipend, an odd job with a cash bonus sounds great and I'd try to fit it in. If I'm in grad school 40 hrs/week, plus working in a coffeeshop 20 hours/week, plus busy with a hobby, the opportunity to spend my weekend working with/for a friend for $50-100 is totally unappealing and cuts into my few times to put my feet up and relax.
While I've never been insulted by an offer of food/cash/gifts/favors in exchange for favors/tasks/consulting/etc, I have been really frustrated by the assumption that if I don't have money, I must have time. So if a friend asks for my help it doesn't really matter if they offer me pizza, or $50, or $200 - they're my friend, and I'll help if I have time. But the assumption that I'd make the time for $200 is what can be hurtful, and turning down the job is not an indicator that I'm not really hurting for cash or that I don't like the person enough or that I like them too much to risk complications of "working for them". It's really about time and energy. Just because person A makes $100/hour during their day job and person B more like $10, that doesn't make B's off-hours any more or less valuable than A's. Respect for time goes a long way, and makes the disparity in incomes feel less consequential.
posted by aimedwander at 11:56 AM on April 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks so much for all the answers, everyone. There is a lot of great stuff to ponder here, and I will think it all over before marking best answers.
Just to clarify, this one friend I was specifically thinking about asking to help me pack has worked odd jobs for other friends for payment, so I at least know it's something she might be open to. This helps with the awkwardness a little, I think. But aimedwander's point about respecting people's time and energy is well taken.
posted by LeeLanded at 12:37 PM on April 11, 2012
Just to clarify, this one friend I was specifically thinking about asking to help me pack has worked odd jobs for other friends for payment, so I at least know it's something she might be open to. This helps with the awkwardness a little, I think. But aimedwander's point about respecting people's time and energy is well taken.
posted by LeeLanded at 12:37 PM on April 11, 2012
(oh, sorry, I should've said that was a general comment, not specific to any reading of your situation or your friend's situation - thanks for not taking that too personally!)
posted by aimedwander at 1:39 PM on April 11, 2012
posted by aimedwander at 1:39 PM on April 11, 2012
If you are going to pay your friend, make sure that you don't come across as stingy or persnickety about the details of the bill. It's one thing to offer $200 to help you pack; it's quite another to offer $20 per hour, but we really can't count that time you were sitting down waiting for the pizza man or the 20 minutes that you went to pick up your daughter or... and now I really only owe you $187.50 and do you have change??
And just for general comments (not really related to your specific situation) my best friend went through a hard financial time while I was making tons of money. We addressed it directly and we called it "Fun vs. Money". It was very obvious for us that she is much better than I am about finding/making fun things to do - she has a better imagination, is more risk-taking, and has contacts all over the city that you wouldn't believe. So we set up times to go out where she did the legwork and I paid the bills. It didn't feel at all condescending, because I know that if it were up to me we would just go to the same old restaurant or play the same old board games. I got to have some amazing evenings that I never would have experienced, and all it cost was a little bit of money. It was very fair to us.
posted by CathyG at 10:03 AM on April 14, 2012
And just for general comments (not really related to your specific situation) my best friend went through a hard financial time while I was making tons of money. We addressed it directly and we called it "Fun vs. Money". It was very obvious for us that she is much better than I am about finding/making fun things to do - she has a better imagination, is more risk-taking, and has contacts all over the city that you wouldn't believe. So we set up times to go out where she did the legwork and I paid the bills. It didn't feel at all condescending, because I know that if it were up to me we would just go to the same old restaurant or play the same old board games. I got to have some amazing evenings that I never would have experienced, and all it cost was a little bit of money. It was very fair to us.
posted by CathyG at 10:03 AM on April 14, 2012
« Older What essentials do I need for spring camping in... | I'm putting my dentist's kids through college Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
When you're the poor friend, you can still be generous with your time and your talents. If it were me, I would not want you to offer to pay me for helping you pack; I would rather do it for you as a favor. I might not be able to buy you a beer, but this is a favor I can do. However, I think you can buy her a nice thank-you gift if you want to, if you happen to know there's something she needs/wants -- a big Starbucks gift card that will feed her habit for a month, a sweater she's been eyeing, a couple bottles of her favorite indulgence wine, whatever's normal within your friendship.
I think it's cool to offer to pay someone's KID to do labor for you, but if you offer to pay the friend, you remove the reciprocal generosity of friendship and turn it into a business transaction. So, no, unless you're offering to pay your friend for her usual work (or usual side-job). And that's my general advice for wealth differentials in friendships: Allow your friends to be generous to you, too, in the ways that they are able.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:11 AM on April 11, 2012 [25 favorites]