Comments on: What's a coffee an' ?

Question: What's a coffee an' ?

Prospero — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 07:54:19 -0800

In James T. Farrell's novel The Young Manhood of Studs Lonigan (1934), Studs's favorite beverage of choice (other than booze) is a coffee an'. What is a coffee an' ?

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:02:23 -0800

a cigarette.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:45:48 -0800

spicynuts: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you think you know what you're talking about (because otherwise I'd have to spend time yelling at you for posting a wild-ass guess as if it were an answer), but you're wrong. Coffee-and (or, as here coffee-an') means (in the words of the Cassell Dictionary of Slang) 'coffee and cakes or coffee and doughnuts, i.e., the cheapest meal available in a café or diner.'

These are the relevant quotes from Farrell:
They had coffee an' in the Greek restaurant. Studs went home, and turned in early.
Coming back with the boys for coffee an', Studs noticed that Dapper Dan was still mushing around Sally.
"Sorry, Dave, all I got is enough for the show and coffee an' afterwards ," Studs said.
They had coffee an' in the Greek restaurant.

By: iconomy

iconomy — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:00:57 -0800

Gonna have to go with the 'hat on this one. My grandmother charmed me many times when I was a wee lass by referring to her coffee and crumb cake or her coffee and pie as coffee an'. She'd always offer me milky, sugary, watered-down coffee along with some kind of yummy pastry, which she also referred to as coffee an'.

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:19:15 -0800

well thanks for the benefit of the doubt and the not yelling, languagehat, because where i'm from, and among most of my friends, coffee an' means coffee and a cigarette. it was not a 'wildass guess', but rather an informed opinion based upon the many years i've spent working in bars and restaurants and the slang we used there to say "'i'll get on my sidework as soon as i have coffee an'". Sorry if that answer wasn't good enough for ya. this fits just as well into the quote you just showed as anything else.

By: Prospero

Prospero — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:50:00 -0800

spicynuts, languagehat: is it possible that there's a regional difference in usage, or a change in usage over time? For the record, Farrell's book is set on Chicago's South Side, between 1916 and 1929 or so (at least that's what I'm guessing--I haven't finished the book yet).

That said, languagehat's answer seems most correct to me, given the inexpensiveness of a coffee an' and Studs's constant concern with money.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:16:52 -0800

spicynuts: Sorry for a perhaps over-snarky aside in your direction, but I've seen so many wild-ass guesses (or outright jokes) presented as answers here that I'm a little touchy on the subject -- plus a one-word answer doesn't inspire confidence. Can I make up for it by thanking you for teaching me a new meaning? I'm adding it to my copy of Cassell -- may I ask from how far back you remember it? Is it a '90s thing, or does it go back earlier?

That said, it's clearly not what Farrell meant, being too recent and/or regional; the traditional "cheap meal" sense is what applies here. It goes back all the way to the start of the last century and covers the period of the novel, as you can see from the OED citations (they define it as "U.S. slang, coffee and doughnut(s) (or a roll, etc.)"):

1901 WEINGARTEN, Coffee and. 1931 'DEAN STIFF' Milk & Honey Route XV. 172 The hash house where they sup plentiously [sic] on coffee-ands. 1949 Collier's 27 Aug. 27 A saloon on Stanton Street hands out 'coffee and' each morning.

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:06:35 -0800

languagehat, first, to answer your question: i'd say early nineties to present, in terms of my own memory. i have a very dim notion that i had also seen it used by Joseph Mitchell in some of his stories, but i wouldn't bet money on it. it's very possible that somone back in the day just converted the old use to this use and it stuck.

secondly, i share your distaste for snarky or joking answers in askme threads and try to avoid it at all costs. it's one of my biggest pet peeves. just know that my intentions were sincere.

thanks!