"what's the problem?" "...ん..."
April 6, 2012 7:42 PM Subscribe
Japanese friend/relationship advice. She all of a sudden became very cold and distant, and I don't understand why. What should I do?
I moved to Japan about three months ago, and am living in a sharehouse with thirteen other people, about half of them Japanese, half foreign. Everyone is wonderful and friendly. But recently I've come up against a snag with one of them. One of the Japanese girls with whom I had been getting along very well with since I moved in, in the last few weeks has started being very cold and distant, and at least appears to be intentionally avoiding me.
When I moved in, my first impression of this girl was that she was very aloof, but I quickly discovered that she was in fact a very warm, kind and interesting girl. On several occasions we've had nice long chats, we've been to the zoo, museums art galleries etc. together, and I've been helping her with her English homework. Now, I should mention that I do find her attractive. Ever since the first time we went sightseeing together I've been smitten, and each time I spent more time with her I've seen more and more what a great girl she is. However very early on she mentioned in casual conversation that she was not looking for a boyfriend. And I have not pursued anything more than friendship with her. Knowing full well too that dating a housemate is fraught with complications.
A few weeks ago however, after a nice trip to an art gallery with her and one of her friends she asked if I wanted to go to our housemate's concert with her, to which of course I said yes. The morning of the concert however she decided she had to study instead. I was disappointed, but ended up going anyway with some other housemates and had a good time. Since then whenever I ask her if she wants to do something, she's studying. Now she's typically always in her room, and doesn't often come out unless I'm not around, for example after I've gone to bed (my room is next to the living room, so can tell exactly who is in there).
Often now she will not even acknowledge me unless I say something first. If we are around each other she will largely ignore me. If there's a space on the sofa next to me she'll still choose to perch on the other sofa's arm next to someone else. And she's only asked me to look at her homework twice in the last three weeks. And rather than being a little flirty as usual she's very distant.
Last night we were alone together briefly and I did ask her if there was something wrong, and she seemed to acknowledge that there was something up, but would not say what. The rest of the conversation had been, and continued to be very stilted and she clearly didn't want to talk to me about anything. And then a housemate walked in and I couldn't get any more information out of her.
Of course you cannot tell me what's going on here. I don't even know if it's even something to do with me. She's seemed to act differently with the rest of the house too, but at least she still talks laughs and smiles with them, where she doesn't so much with me. My problem is that this situation is very frustrating, I don't want to see her feel uncomfortable in her home, as much as I don't want to feel uncomfortable myself.
I know that in general Japanese people do not like confrontation, but should I ask again, maybe somewhere out of the house? This might be difficult given that she's reluctant to do anything with me these days.
Or should I just leave it and try and carry on as normally as possible? But I don't know if I'll be able to get over it seeing her around the house.
I moved to Japan about three months ago, and am living in a sharehouse with thirteen other people, about half of them Japanese, half foreign. Everyone is wonderful and friendly. But recently I've come up against a snag with one of them. One of the Japanese girls with whom I had been getting along very well with since I moved in, in the last few weeks has started being very cold and distant, and at least appears to be intentionally avoiding me.
When I moved in, my first impression of this girl was that she was very aloof, but I quickly discovered that she was in fact a very warm, kind and interesting girl. On several occasions we've had nice long chats, we've been to the zoo, museums art galleries etc. together, and I've been helping her with her English homework. Now, I should mention that I do find her attractive. Ever since the first time we went sightseeing together I've been smitten, and each time I spent more time with her I've seen more and more what a great girl she is. However very early on she mentioned in casual conversation that she was not looking for a boyfriend. And I have not pursued anything more than friendship with her. Knowing full well too that dating a housemate is fraught with complications.
A few weeks ago however, after a nice trip to an art gallery with her and one of her friends she asked if I wanted to go to our housemate's concert with her, to which of course I said yes. The morning of the concert however she decided she had to study instead. I was disappointed, but ended up going anyway with some other housemates and had a good time. Since then whenever I ask her if she wants to do something, she's studying. Now she's typically always in her room, and doesn't often come out unless I'm not around, for example after I've gone to bed (my room is next to the living room, so can tell exactly who is in there).
Often now she will not even acknowledge me unless I say something first. If we are around each other she will largely ignore me. If there's a space on the sofa next to me she'll still choose to perch on the other sofa's arm next to someone else. And she's only asked me to look at her homework twice in the last three weeks. And rather than being a little flirty as usual she's very distant.
Last night we were alone together briefly and I did ask her if there was something wrong, and she seemed to acknowledge that there was something up, but would not say what. The rest of the conversation had been, and continued to be very stilted and she clearly didn't want to talk to me about anything. And then a housemate walked in and I couldn't get any more information out of her.
Of course you cannot tell me what's going on here. I don't even know if it's even something to do with me. She's seemed to act differently with the rest of the house too, but at least she still talks laughs and smiles with them, where she doesn't so much with me. My problem is that this situation is very frustrating, I don't want to see her feel uncomfortable in her home, as much as I don't want to feel uncomfortable myself.
I know that in general Japanese people do not like confrontation, but should I ask again, maybe somewhere out of the house? This might be difficult given that she's reluctant to do anything with me these days.
Or should I just leave it and try and carry on as normally as possible? But I don't know if I'll be able to get over it seeing her around the house.
She told you she didn't want a boyfriend and that's what you wanted to be. Leave it alone.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:06 PM on April 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by J. Wilson at 8:06 PM on April 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
At least I know that for Chinese people, confrontation in this scenario would get you nowhere. Friends tend to be aloof a bit when they are feeling conflicted, let the feelings fade, and then start talking again when things settle. So I suggest you just give her space and let her come to you when and if she is ready. (while giving her space, still be polite and friendly). This strategy has working for me. Also, I agree with cupcake1337.
(I know Chinese and Japanese culture are not the same, but I believe they are similar on many points, including this one.)
posted by bearette at 8:15 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
(I know Chinese and Japanese culture are not the same, but I believe they are similar on many points, including this one.)
posted by bearette at 8:15 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
she seemed to acknowledge that there was something up, but would not say what.
Culturally, the Japanese go to great lengths to avoid giving offense or saying anything negative. In intercultural business relationships this can lead to a lot of confusion when somebody Japanese says "That may present some difficulties", and the ears hearing that don't realize that this is the accepted, polite and culturally standard way of saying "no".
So when you say "she clearly didn't want to talk to me about anything", you should gracefully and graciously accept that for what it is, which is a clear sign that the relationship you wanted is not on.
Leave it be. Maybe things will change, maybe they won't, but her decision here is quite clear if you have the right eyes to see it.
posted by mhoye at 8:19 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Culturally, the Japanese go to great lengths to avoid giving offense or saying anything negative. In intercultural business relationships this can lead to a lot of confusion when somebody Japanese says "That may present some difficulties", and the ears hearing that don't realize that this is the accepted, polite and culturally standard way of saying "no".
So when you say "she clearly didn't want to talk to me about anything", you should gracefully and graciously accept that for what it is, which is a clear sign that the relationship you wanted is not on.
Leave it be. Maybe things will change, maybe they won't, but her decision here is quite clear if you have the right eyes to see it.
posted by mhoye at 8:19 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I've dated Canadian, American and Japanese women, and am married to a Japanese woman. I have no idea about decoding the intercultural signals or whatever here, but no matter what culture you are in, the silent treatment is kind of irritating.
If you think that she's still worth pursuing, and you are willing put up with the silent treatment, that's all well. If not, there are plenty of more fish in the sea.
While the silent treatment is definitely (in my experience) part of Japanese culture with some people, there are plenty more people out there who can communicate clearly and in adult fashion. It might be worth searching out a lady who is like that.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you think that she's still worth pursuing, and you are willing put up with the silent treatment, that's all well. If not, there are plenty of more fish in the sea.
While the silent treatment is definitely (in my experience) part of Japanese culture with some people, there are plenty more people out there who can communicate clearly and in adult fashion. It might be worth searching out a lady who is like that.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Treat her with kindness. With the Japanese people I've known, both women and men, kindness, thoughtfulness and consideration have been the most important qualities.
posted by SPrintF at 8:30 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by SPrintF at 8:30 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
She's probably reluctant to do anything with you because you're pushing too hard to be her friend, and are vibing like you'd like to escalate things to another level. Or, y'know, she's studying for
Back off, stop trying to have serious talks, and assume good faith when she says she's studying, instead of trying to make it a romanticky weird thing where you "know" she's avoiding you and you "need" to talk to her about it.
posted by spunweb at 9:02 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Back off, stop trying to have serious talks, and assume good faith when she says she's studying, instead of trying to make it a romanticky weird thing where you "know" she's avoiding you and you "need" to talk to her about it.
posted by spunweb at 9:02 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wellll...I would act this way because of one of two things:
1. I am annoyed that the guy wants more than I can provide, and I wish he would stop trying so hard after I've said and signaled I am not interested. He makes it clear that he wants a different sort of relationship, against my wishes, and it really puts me off.
2. I sent out lots of sexy signals and he didn't pick up on any of it. He is kind of an idiot and is irritating me because I obviously want to hook up with him but he is too nice and will do nothing.
Either way, I'd just try to relax and not focus on it so much. Just treat her like a friend and don't get twisted up about it, please. There's really no point.
posted by amodelcitizen at 9:17 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
1. I am annoyed that the guy wants more than I can provide, and I wish he would stop trying so hard after I've said and signaled I am not interested. He makes it clear that he wants a different sort of relationship, against my wishes, and it really puts me off.
2. I sent out lots of sexy signals and he didn't pick up on any of it. He is kind of an idiot and is irritating me because I obviously want to hook up with him but he is too nice and will do nothing.
Either way, I'd just try to relax and not focus on it so much. Just treat her like a friend and don't get twisted up about it, please. There's really no point.
posted by amodelcitizen at 9:17 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I do want to clarify that I am not right now, necessarily, looking to date this girl. I don't *think* I've done anything so far that would suggest I want to date her, but maybe things are taken differently in Japan. I've been holding back a lot, and haven't really been that flirtatious with her.
The conversation about not wanting a boyfriend was part of broader conversation about our housemates. It wasn't a veiled "I don't want you to be my boyfriend", unless it was unimaginably subtle. This was also early on before things started developing.
What we have done so far has been as friends. And as much as I feel I would like to date her, it's just not really a good idea right now. I can see that. But I do want to make sure that she remains a friend, because despite meeting many wonderful people, I see her as probably the one person I've met so far in this country that I can really identify with. But being given the cold shoulder makes me feel pretty stupid about that, and it's making me quite resentful.
It just seems very strange that this behaviour seems entirely unprovoked, and in fact started occurring after she started to feel more comfortable asking me to do things with her. I didn't actually her at all between her asking me to go the concert and the morning of the concert, so I can't imagine I did anything to make her uncomfortable.
posted by iamcrispy at 9:19 PM on April 6, 2012
The conversation about not wanting a boyfriend was part of broader conversation about our housemates. It wasn't a veiled "I don't want you to be my boyfriend", unless it was unimaginably subtle. This was also early on before things started developing.
What we have done so far has been as friends. And as much as I feel I would like to date her, it's just not really a good idea right now. I can see that. But I do want to make sure that she remains a friend, because despite meeting many wonderful people, I see her as probably the one person I've met so far in this country that I can really identify with. But being given the cold shoulder makes me feel pretty stupid about that, and it's making me quite resentful.
It just seems very strange that this behaviour seems entirely unprovoked, and in fact started occurring after she started to feel more comfortable asking me to do things with her. I didn't actually her at all between her asking me to go the concert and the morning of the concert, so I can't imagine I did anything to make her uncomfortable.
posted by iamcrispy at 9:19 PM on April 6, 2012
Who cares? Seriously. You've known her three months. Be nice and polite and let it go. The agonizing is too much.
posted by amodelcitizen at 9:35 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by amodelcitizen at 9:35 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
I can't imagine I did anything to make her uncomfortable.
But you obviously did. You seem hyper-focused on this person. You say you want to date her, you say you're smitten, but that you never told her, so you think that means she won't know? If someone walks into the room crying, they don't have to tell me they're sad. Japanese is very much a "listening" culture and language - things aren't explicitly stated, and it's up to the listener to determine the full meaning. So while you may be saying, "let's go to a concert!" the way you're saying it may be translating to, "I would like to spend more time with you." She may have thought that over, seen that look in your face, and decided she didn't want to give you false hope.
Many times women are placed in precarious situations - if you agree to get the study help, as friends, and you agree to go to the concert, as friends, and you agree to coffee, as friends, many times, when a guy finally screws up the courage to ask you out and you say no, he becomes resentful that he's put in all this effort into the woman with no "payout". You even say you're becoming resentful - I've seen this before, and I really think you are way too involved with this girl and putting too much undeserved pressure on her.
She doesn't want you romantically. You can *say* you don't want her romantically, but if that were true, this silent treatment wouldn't be so annoying, would it? Get over her, try to get a (different) girlfriend, and then perhaps you can be friends with this girl again. If that's truly what you want, then that is what you'll do.
Also, if she's giving you the silent treatment and doesn't want to be friends, then just leave her alone. She's not obligated to be your friend.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 9:36 PM on April 6, 2012 [23 favorites]
But you obviously did. You seem hyper-focused on this person. You say you want to date her, you say you're smitten, but that you never told her, so you think that means she won't know? If someone walks into the room crying, they don't have to tell me they're sad. Japanese is very much a "listening" culture and language - things aren't explicitly stated, and it's up to the listener to determine the full meaning. So while you may be saying, "let's go to a concert!" the way you're saying it may be translating to, "I would like to spend more time with you." She may have thought that over, seen that look in your face, and decided she didn't want to give you false hope.
Many times women are placed in precarious situations - if you agree to get the study help, as friends, and you agree to go to the concert, as friends, and you agree to coffee, as friends, many times, when a guy finally screws up the courage to ask you out and you say no, he becomes resentful that he's put in all this effort into the woman with no "payout". You even say you're becoming resentful - I've seen this before, and I really think you are way too involved with this girl and putting too much undeserved pressure on her.
She doesn't want you romantically. You can *say* you don't want her romantically, but if that were true, this silent treatment wouldn't be so annoying, would it? Get over her, try to get a (different) girlfriend, and then perhaps you can be friends with this girl again. If that's truly what you want, then that is what you'll do.
Also, if she's giving you the silent treatment and doesn't want to be friends, then just leave her alone. She's not obligated to be your friend.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 9:36 PM on April 6, 2012 [23 favorites]
I was thinking the same thing as gilrain although I could see it going both ways. Perhaps she decided to avoid you because she felt awkward about potentially leading you on; or perhaps she was insulted that you went to the concert without her when she was the one who invited you, and is taking a "well fine then" stand-offish approach. It's really impossible to say without seeing the cues and such in first person though.
I would really not try to talk to her about it directly though. Be polite and friendly, and as platonic as possible (imo the safer route) and just give it some time.
posted by celtalitha at 10:08 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would really not try to talk to her about it directly though. Be polite and friendly, and as platonic as possible (imo the safer route) and just give it some time.
posted by celtalitha at 10:08 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm with gilrain. Could it be that she feels hurt that you went to the concert without her, especially since she's the one who invited you? Maybe she felt excluded and frustrated that she had to stay home. Based on your question, that seems to be the turning point. I'm not saying that you did anything wrong by going to the concert, but her feelings might have been hurt by it.
posted by delight at 10:12 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by delight at 10:12 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: As much as some of the answers here hurt, I can't help but think they're right. I think the consensus is to leave it and act normal no matter what. I am interested in some other girls, just not nearly as much.
Hmm. I'm not sure about the concert. She clearly wanted to go when one of our housemates told her about it, and she seemed to be looking at me for a reaction at the time, but I wasn't too sure at the time about going, so I didn't really say anything.
It was only on the way back from this trip to an art gallery a couple of days before the concert that she asked me. In fact I was going to ask her to go, but she beat me to it. At the time it seemed strange because we could have quite easily have taken the train back home with her friend, but she decided to take a different route with me. At the time I couldn't decide if I should read something into that.
But on the morning of the concert when I asked her what time she wanted to go, she said she had decided to study instead. Then my other housemates asked me to go with them. I didn't have much of a say in the matter, at least not without it seeming very strange that I was going before, and then not, having found out she wasn't going. I don't think she could have held that against me.
posted by iamcrispy at 10:36 PM on April 6, 2012
Hmm. I'm not sure about the concert. She clearly wanted to go when one of our housemates told her about it, and she seemed to be looking at me for a reaction at the time, but I wasn't too sure at the time about going, so I didn't really say anything.
It was only on the way back from this trip to an art gallery a couple of days before the concert that she asked me. In fact I was going to ask her to go, but she beat me to it. At the time it seemed strange because we could have quite easily have taken the train back home with her friend, but she decided to take a different route with me. At the time I couldn't decide if I should read something into that.
But on the morning of the concert when I asked her what time she wanted to go, she said she had decided to study instead. Then my other housemates asked me to go with them. I didn't have much of a say in the matter, at least not without it seeming very strange that I was going before, and then not, having found out she wasn't going. I don't think she could have held that against me.
posted by iamcrispy at 10:36 PM on April 6, 2012
Japan is a high-context society. You have to know what the person is going to say before they even say it. If you invite an American (or someone from a similarly Western background) to go out or do something, you will expect to get a "yes" or "no" back and that's it. The same invitation in Japanese can be declined with a simple, "well..." at which point the other party generally should interrupt them and say, "Oh, ok, no big deal. Some other time then!"
This is called 建前 and is a super interesting element of Japanese culture, I highly advise looking into it a bit seeing as how you are there. It's purpose is to spare the feeling of shame/embarrassment/whatever for the other party when you decline. Japanese are typically super thoughtful, awesome people!
This girl, however, sounds like a inconsiderate and selfish person. If she were not so attractive to you, you would immediately be able to reach that conclusion, but because she is attractive, here her nastiness sits in your head. Leave her alone, move on, and spend your time on something/someone with more reciprocity while you are there!
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 12:02 AM on April 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
This is called 建前 and is a super interesting element of Japanese culture, I highly advise looking into it a bit seeing as how you are there. It's purpose is to spare the feeling of shame/embarrassment/whatever for the other party when you decline. Japanese are typically super thoughtful, awesome people!
This girl, however, sounds like a inconsiderate and selfish person. If she were not so attractive to you, you would immediately be able to reach that conclusion, but because she is attractive, here her nastiness sits in your head. Leave her alone, move on, and spend your time on something/someone with more reciprocity while you are there!
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 12:02 AM on April 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
Jumping in to reinforce Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth's comment! Please, allow her to sort out her feelings and eventually reconnect with you if she so wishes. I am not Japanese, but I recognized her behavior and she's just making it clear that she's not that into you.
It's a little disturbing that it's implied that she's selfish for not giving you what you want, how you want it, or telling you that she's not giving you what you want in a way that suits your culture. She is doing you a favor. Do yourself a favor, also, and give that girl space. I could tell you were pressed from your question; she could probably tell from being around you. No amount of tampering that down will undo her feelings.
Also, I just want to add that a lot of hetero guys believe that if they are investing time in a young woman, she'll eventually get the hint that they want her and give them what they want. Like 5 attention coins = payday, either in the form of sex or dating or something else. Which is why they get resentful when they've invested all of those coins and nothing comes out. Please don't let that be you.
posted by Ashen at 6:37 AM on April 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
It's a little disturbing that it's implied that she's selfish for not giving you what you want, how you want it, or telling you that she's not giving you what you want in a way that suits your culture. She is doing you a favor. Do yourself a favor, also, and give that girl space. I could tell you were pressed from your question; she could probably tell from being around you. No amount of tampering that down will undo her feelings.
Also, I just want to add that a lot of hetero guys believe that if they are investing time in a young woman, she'll eventually get the hint that they want her and give them what they want. Like 5 attention coins = payday, either in the form of sex or dating or something else. Which is why they get resentful when they've invested all of those coins and nothing comes out. Please don't let that be you.
posted by Ashen at 6:37 AM on April 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
As I indicated upthread, you're overthinking this - sometimes the silent treatment is indicative of a personality, rather than an entire cultural trait, so it's going to be really hard to decode what's going on in her brain.
The only insight that I can offer is that, in my experience, under a certain age, Japanese women don't really do the entire "platonic relationship" thing. What looks like a date is most definitely a date.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:48 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
The only insight that I can offer is that, in my experience, under a certain age, Japanese women don't really do the entire "platonic relationship" thing. What looks like a date is most definitely a date.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:48 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe you did something at the concert that got back to her and which she didnt approve.
posted by pakora1 at 8:58 AM on April 7, 2012
posted by pakora1 at 8:58 AM on April 7, 2012
I don't *think* I've done anything so far that would suggest I want to date her
On several occasions we've had nice long chats, we've been to the zoo, museums art galleries etc. together, and I've been helping her with her English homework.
those are things you do to suggest that you want to date her.
in addition to cultural stuff, you two live in the same house, right? so that's even more pressure to not risk hurt feelings.
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:46 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
On several occasions we've had nice long chats, we've been to the zoo, museums art galleries etc. together, and I've been helping her with her English homework.
those are things you do to suggest that you want to date her.
in addition to cultural stuff, you two live in the same house, right? so that's even more pressure to not risk hurt feelings.
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:46 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Advice from this old geezer, who has seen/experienced this kind of thing a number of times: get a life. By that I mean make new friends, get a new girlfriend, maybe even move to a different place. It may possibly always be awkward with this girl from now on, so assume it will be. Assume you two will never be friends (watch "When Harry Met Sally" for guidance with this. Spoiler: you can't be just friends with someone you're attracted to), and if in the future, when you have a life separate from this girl, and you do become friends, then it's a bonus. But don't count on it. Scratch that off your list.
New friendships are perhaps the most volatile things in the universe. They can sputter out and die in the hundreds, often by forces beyond your control or comprehension. She may be one of yours.
posted by zardoz at 1:17 PM on April 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
New friendships are perhaps the most volatile things in the universe. They can sputter out and die in the hundreds, often by forces beyond your control or comprehension. She may be one of yours.
posted by zardoz at 1:17 PM on April 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
Avoid the temptation that you may get, from reading this thread, to treat her as A Japanese instead of just as a person.
Sometimes people just don't act in an obviously rational manner, regardless of their cultural heritage.
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:30 PM on April 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Sometimes people just don't act in an obviously rational manner, regardless of their cultural heritage.
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:30 PM on April 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
« Older If she keeps this up she will only have 8 lives. | Salvage this breakup or let it go and move on? Is... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
just leave it, and eventually you'll be friendly acquaintances again.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:02 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]