Comments on: Help me help my dog

Question: Help me help my dog

insectosaurus — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:34:18 -0800

What's the most effective way to use a thundershirt for a dog that's anxious most of the time? Other tips for helping an anxious dog are appreciated.

Our 10 year old Australian Cattle dog, Zoe (modeling her new thundershirt), is a very anxious dog. For example, she gets anxious when she hears noises, because she thinks it's her job to protect us, the humans, from the noises (so we keep music playing most of the time so she can't hear the noises). She gets anxious when she doesn't know where she is supposed to be, like when we're leaving the house and we haven't told her go to in her crate yet (she is crate trained, and she likes her crate; as soon as we tell her to go in the crate, she calms down a lot.) She barks when she is anxious.

Her basic schedule:
In the morning, she plays and has free run of the house.
During the day she is crated. I am sometimes home during the day, but she is still crated. She sleeps all day.
In the evening she plays and has free run of the house. She is fed at night. We usually give her Quiet Moments with her dinner.
At night she is usually crated to sleep, but lately she's been sleeping in the bedroom with us (not in the bed though; she's not allowed). She always goes into her crate to sleep voluntarily when the door is open.

So, we recently bought her a thundershirt, which is supposed to help with anxiety. Since she's anxious most of the time, what's the best way to use it? Should she wear it all the time? When we are home, but not during the day when she is crated?

She seems to be completely comfortable in the thundershirt. She can move freely in it. I can't tell if it's keeping her calmer or helping. We keep the house cool enough that having her wear it all the time shouldn't be a problem.

If you have any other tips on helping her be less anxious, I'm all ears!

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:41:59 -0800

Have you considered medication? There are a range of anti-anxiety meds that can be very effective for dogs, and many of them are not super expensive. See a veterinary behaviorist to look into your options.

By: Lyn Never

Lyn Never — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:43:52 -0800

Trainers are not expensive, and you can often get 80% of the training you need (because it's you who gets trained) in a one-hour or less visit.

Cowdogs, unfortunately, suffer from not having a job. She really needs to (work up to, given her age) get in several miles of walking a day, if not running.

Crating is...not terribly kind for a working breed, especially thinkin' dogs like Aussies and border collies. Please get some help from a trainer. There may be some therapeutic use in a thundershirt, but there's more to it than that.

By: Glinn

Glinn — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:45:59 -0800

Has she always been anxious and/or has she been more anxious lately? If it's more obvious recently, you might consider having her hearing checked. Not sure why she's crated if you're home?

By: itsamonkeytree

itsamonkeytree — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:49:52 -0800

I also have an Australian Cattle dog. You need to take her for a walk every day. If you cant do a few miles at least give her 20-30 min. She really needs some form of exercise every day. She's very pretty btw.

By: erst

erst — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:52:17 -0800

A tired dog is a calm, happy dog! It's not clear from your post how much strenuous exercise (long walks or jogs, hours of running around the yard, fetch games, etc) she gets in her day, but she's an energetic breed and more exercise may help significantly with anxiety.

By: TomMelee

TomMelee — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:54:17 -0800

From what I can tell, Thundershirts work by keeping static from building up plus some "compression" therapy. I'm fairly certain they're intended to treat acute anxiety, not chronic.

Tangential, but fyi:
My dog has extreme storm anxiety, and his primary fear is the noise, and no amount of squeezing him relaxes him. Sunday night we had a storm that kept him, and thus us, up all night. Monday I spent a good bit of time researching and asking a vet, and what I've settled on is a 3mg dose of melatonin. Cheap, easy. Worked a treat last night, but it was our first trial.

What I found said 1.5Mg for dogs under 30lbs (less for wee tinies), 3mg for 30-100, and more for more.

This doesn't address your day-to-day anxiety

By: biscotti

biscotti — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:06:43 -0800

She may need daily medication for the anxiety. She also likely needs a lot more exercise. It might also help to do a class with her weekly (tracking is great for anxious dogs in my experience, as is nosework, agility can also help a lot), this can give her a job to do and give her some mental and physical exercise. Thundershirts are great for some dogs, but they are definitely more effective, in my experience, for acute episodes like thunderstorms and fireworks, not for chronic issues. I suggest you see a veterinary behaviorist or at least a behaviorist. (and, FWIW, melatonin does not reliably affect anxiety in many/most dogs, it does nothing at all for my anxious dog)

Incidentally, I would stop ascribing motives to her anxiety (like trying to protect you), this can inadvertently affect how you react to them, and to her. You only need to know what specifically makes her anxious (noises, for example, or not knowing where she should be), you do not need to know why (you can't really know why anyway, it is at best a good guess).

By: dyobmit

dyobmit — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:10:14 -0800

We tried a Thundershirt with our anxious guy and it didn't seem to do much of anything. He's pretty relaxed in our apartment and sleeps most of the day, but he gets anxious riding the elevator and going out for his walks (we live on a busy street) on the way to the park, so that's where we tried it.

He seems to like wearing it and gets excited when we put it on, but we haven't noticed it decreasing his anxiety for his walks or the few times we've tried it in the apartment during the occasional thunderstorm and/or fireworks.

Just for reference, our guy is anxious enough that our behaviorist and vet have him on a daily dose of Fluoxetine (Prozak). I wish the wear-him-out thing worked for us, but we can let him run and wrestle for 2 hours at the dog park and he'll still be high-anxiety on the noisy walk back home (where he promptly passes out ten steps into the apartment).

By: insectosaurus

insectosaurus — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:27:21 -0800

Glinn: She's always been anxious, it's not a change in behavior at all. She's crated when I'm home because her behavior is dramatically better if she spends a significant part of the day crated and sleeping. If she isn't crated at all during the day, she acts significantly more anxious and barks more until we put her in the crate. Then, she'll calm down and take a nap.

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:41:29 -0800

How much directed exercise does she get during the day? (Walks, extended high-intensity games, etc)?

My trainer has a very anxious dog and he wears a Thundershirt for up to 4 hours at a stretch without taking it off, including crate time. I would worry that continuous wear would lead to sores.

By: RolandOfEld

RolandOfEld — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:52:53 -0800

nthing exercise. That's a working breed. They need either a large yard to be active in or long walks. If these aren't incorporated into the dog's daily routine then that's where I'd start.

No help on the Thundershirt thing but make sure you treat it as a happy moment when you put it on her. If it ever becomes punishment (like if she begins to associate it with high anxiety moments) then you're heading down the wrong path. Treats when she gets dressed and put the shirt on before she get's anxious.

By: insectosaurus

insectosaurus — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:05:59 -0800

We don't have a yard, most of her exercise is indoors. Luckily, she ADORES her indoor chuckit - we play fetch every day until she's exhausted, which only takes about 20 minutes. We play one or two 20 minute games per day, and it sounds like that's not nearly enough exercise for her - I'll play more games per day with her. However, when she goes to daycare for the day, she comes back totally exhausted for a couple days - and she still acts anxious.

She's due for a well-dog checkup, and we'll ask the vet about medication. Should we ask about long term meds like Prozac, or short term meds like Valium? The vet probably won't be able to tell much from examining her, because we have to drug her with acepromazine before vet visits (due to vet anxiety, of course!).

By: Lanark

Lanark — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:09:32 -0800

her behavior is dramatically better if she spends a significant part of the day crated and sleeping

This is like an alcoholic who behaves much better after a few drinks, it's not solving the long term problem. She needs more outdoor time, more exercise and less drugs. Being a 10 year old dog you will probably need to make these changes gradually so she has time to adapt.

By: blue_bicycle

blue_bicycle — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:48:44 -0800

As a working rancher with two working dogs (including one who has lots of fear issues, thunder, gunshots, strangers etc) I'd say two things: 1) not only does this dog need lots and lots of physical activity but she needs mental stimulation too! Thinking dogs love to learn and work. If you don't have cows like we do then teach tricks! A trainer can help you with this. 2) I'd talk to a trainer/behavioralist before medicating-- anti anxiety meds are not usually the answer with dogs.

We tried the thundershirt on our nervous guy, but it didn't work for us. If he's in the house and something scared him then he goes and hides in his crate. If we're out working we trained him to come to us and we'll pet him/stick by him until the scary thing stops making noise.

By: fshgrl

fshgrl — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:11:55 -0800

It sounds like this dog is crated 16+ hours every day and never walked. Honestly? That is cruel. You need to walk the dog and stop locking her up every time she irritates you.

I have a high energy dog and one time a house sitter I hired decided to treat her the way you treat your dog "exercising" her indoors. When I got home 3 weeks later the dog had eaten a hole in her own leg from stress and anxiety. I started walking her again and she went right back to normal.

By: insectosaurus

insectosaurus — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:47:51 -0800

fshgirl: My girlfriend and I love Zoe very, very much, and we would never want to be cruel to her. She is never, ever crated as punishment - only when we are leaving the house, as part of her regular schedule, or when she is overtired and needs to take a nap.

You're correct that we don't take her on long walks. She doesn't do well when she encounters neighborhood dogs or cats, so we try to avoid that (she barks and tries to lunge, though she's always on a short leash). There are many off-leash dogs in our neighborhood, which present an additional problem. Yes, we've worked with a trainer. We use a clicker and treats, and her behavior on walks has significantly improved - but not to the degree that long walks are feasible.

By: blue_bicycle

blue_bicycle — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:53:01 -0800

I don't mean to pile on, but this is a high energy dog breed that needs a lot of physical activity. Maybe try working with a different trainer to see if you can get better results? Aus. Cattle dogs are smart and because of that they need very good leadership. Have you had this dog for 10 years? Training rescue dogs can be tricky because you don't always know their history. Again, an animal behavioralist can help here.

I dont doubt that you love your dog, but this is a working breed that needs a high level of mental and physical stimulation. Our Aussie dogs run up to 8 hours a day in open country and still come home wanting to play. I get frustrated when I see city folks with working breeds because it's just such a lifestyle mismatch and I truly feel its unfair to the dog.

Even if she is quiet in her crate all day I promise you that the number of hours of inactivity is absolutely not helping your situation.

By: melissasaurus

melissasaurus — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:37:45 -0800

I have an anxious dog that has previously been on Prozac, had a thundershirt, extensive behavior training, comfort zone sprays, etc. Crating can help an anxious dog, especially when you're not home. BUT, all dogs need long walks. You should try to dedicate at least 1hr per day to taking her on a long walk; perhaps using a dog backpack to get her in "working" mode. Walking my anxious dog for an hour each evening is the only thing that has made a demonstrable improvement in his anxiety. If you equate it to human anxiety, the first thing your doctor would likely recommend is more exercise. W/r/t the thundershirt, she should only wear it when you're home, and shouldn't wear it if she's locked in her crate, lest it become caught on something or become too tight for her.

By: melissasaurus

melissasaurus — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:45:36 -0800

Also, now that I read your latest update - my anxious dog also likes to lunge and bark at other dogs in the neighborhood. It is something that you need to work on every day and it will get better; avoiding walks will never correct the problem. If you need to muzzle her on walks for safety then that's what you need to do. The muzzle not only prevents any bites, but it also indicates to other dog owners that your dog doesn't like being approached by other dogs/humans. And it helps to relieve some of your anxiety on the walk that the dog is most certainly picking up on (e.g. tensing or shortening the leash when you see another dog coming, changes in your breathing pattern, hesitating to walk forward, etc). if you lengthen the time of your walk, that should help too. My dog is tense for the first 10 mins or so of a walk, and especially so on our street (aka his street), but once we get a good stride going he's much better and by the half hour mark he's a different dog behavior-wise.

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:00:25 -0800

She's due for a well-dog checkup, and we'll ask the vet about medication. Should we ask about long term meds like Prozac, or short term meds like Valium? The vet probably won't be able to tell much from examining her, because we have to drug her with acepromazine before vet visits (due to vet anxiety, of course!).

While this is definitely something you want to discuss with your regular vet, I think the best thing to do is to ask them about a referral to a Veterinary Behaviorist. Many general practicioners are behind the curve when it comes to anti-anxiety medication, and if you really want to solve this problem, you should see a specialist. If your vet does not have a local one they recommend, there is a listing of Board Certified Veterinary Behaviorists at the link I posted.

By: biscotti

biscotti — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:31:05 -0800

She definitely needs to get OUT for walks every day, the reactivity to other dogs is something you can work on (try "Control Unleashed" for good suggestions). You have a dog bred to work outside and use its brain all day, and you are keeping her inside with very little mental stimulation, she needs to get outside, and she needs a job to do (hence the suggestion for taking a class with her in a dog sport). Veterinary behaviorist - regular vets are not necessarily good resources for help with behavior modification, unless it is an area they have a special interest in (there is too much information out there for all vets to stay current with everything), this is something you need help from an expert with.

By: fshgrl

fshgrl — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:22:45 -0800

I know you're not being deliberately cruel to the dog but the way she's living is not healthy or ok. You need to walk her.

By: insectosaurus

insectosaurus — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:46:52 -0800

Update: I started with 20-minute outdoor walks yesterday. I feel pretty defensive about some of the comments here, but the consensus is clearly that indoor exercise isn't enough, and I really do want to do what is best for Zoe. Zoe did really, really well on the walk both yesterday and today - I'm able to walk her in the middle of the day, when there are less people and dogs out. Just like meslissasaurus's dog, she relaxed a lot once we were off of our street and "her" territory. She was surprisingly non-reactive to some dogs, though she did try to chase a pigeon.

I'll eventually do longer walks, but she has arthritis (she's taking good quality supplements), and I think we need to ease into it.

She has a vet appointment next week, we'll talk to the vet about medication and about a referral to a Veterinary Behaviorist.

Quick follow up question if anyone is still reading: We always walk her with this muzzle, it seems to help her be less reactive and she doesn't seem to mind it. But, she can't pant with her mouth open with it on - so is it okay for her to wear it on a longer walk?

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:51:35 -0800

A "basket muzzle" like this is better for wearing during walks. Some dogs can even manage to drink water (in a deep enough bowl) with one on, which can be helpful on really hot days. You can probably find a similar one at your local pet shop.

By: biscotti

biscotti — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:04:35 -0800

If something around her head/muzzle calms her, consider a head halter like a Halti or Gentle Leader, it's really not a good idea to walk her in that muzzle, since (as you point out) she can't pant. My reactive dog is much calmer on walks in a head halter- you can get the same calming effect with a head halter, which will allow her to pant and is designed to be worn safely for long periods. Just make sure you accustom her to it properly (they come with instructions), fit it properly, and do not use it with an extendable leash, nothing longer than 6 feet.

By: insectosaurus

insectosaurus — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:09:54 -0800

Thanks, I'll look into the head halter.

By: insectosaurus

insectosaurus — Sat, 12 May 2012 23:20:42 -0800

Update: We started going on long walks every day in March, and Zoe seems to like them. The gentle leader is great - she is much better behaved with it. However, overall, the walks don't seem to have much (if any!) affect on her anxiety.

So, we started on doggy Prozac (Reconcile) in April, and it has been really great. Zoe is much, much calmer - she will still bark if she hears other dogs barking or someone at the door, but is much less likely to bark at nothing. She just seems a lot less tense, and she wants to spend more time snuggling, which is lovely.

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Sun, 13 May 2012 06:59:59 -0800

That's great. I'm glad to hear the Reconcile is working! You may want to ask your vet and/or pharmacist about switching to generic fluoxetine. It is not available in the exact dosages that Reconcile is, but if you can find a strength that works for Zoe, it is MUCH cheaper. A lot of people find the convenience of Reconcile worth it, but I just thought I'd mention the generic, in case cost is an issue for you.