Does anybody know where I can find orchestral scores on the web?
March 17, 2012 6:38 PM Subscribe
Does anybody know where I can find orchestral scores on the web?
Of course you do -but here's the problem: it's full orchestration I'm after, not a piano reduction. I'm hoping to reproduce the sound with midi, and then go from there.
If it matters, It's from "Der Silbersee", by Kurt Weill. But don't let that sidetrack you - this will probably come up with something else. I'm hoping there's a database somewhere, like at some music school, or... anything. It would save me tons of work. And I'll pay for it, if I don't have to buy the whole opera.
Of course you do -but here's the problem: it's full orchestration I'm after, not a piano reduction. I'm hoping to reproduce the sound with midi, and then go from there.
If it matters, It's from "Der Silbersee", by Kurt Weill. But don't let that sidetrack you - this will probably come up with something else. I'm hoping there's a database somewhere, like at some music school, or... anything. It would save me tons of work. And I'll pay for it, if I don't have to buy the whole opera.
Grr... missing a second sentence, "There is only a vocal score." That would make the third sentence's "that" make sense.
posted by Jahaza at 7:41 PM on March 17, 2012
posted by Jahaza at 7:41 PM on March 17, 2012
Neither Julliard or the Eastman School of Music have anything but a vocal/piano score.
posted by Jahaza at 7:46 PM on March 17, 2012
posted by Jahaza at 7:46 PM on March 17, 2012
For things that have passed into the public domain, the Petrucci Music Library is AMAZING. They have a number of complete scores.
For example:
Beethoven's Fifth Symphony
Ravel's Bolero
Wagner's Tristan und Isolde (439 pages!)
You might also want to look at the Variations database from Indiana University.
Finally, you can get a free trial to the Alexander Street Press Classical Scores Library.
Have you tried asking a local librarian? Sometimes you can get amazing things through interlibrary loan.
posted by kristi at 8:17 PM on March 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
For example:
Beethoven's Fifth Symphony
Ravel's Bolero
Wagner's Tristan und Isolde (439 pages!)
You might also want to look at the Variations database from Indiana University.
Finally, you can get a free trial to the Alexander Street Press Classical Scores Library.
Have you tried asking a local librarian? Sometimes you can get amazing things through interlibrary loan.
posted by kristi at 8:17 PM on March 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks you guys. SOMEBODY's got that music somewhere, it's been recorded at least three times, with identical instrumentation. I know that because Ive been listening to those damn recordings for the last three days trying to figure out the parts. Top and bottom voices are
easy. Middle voices, instruments in unison, are maddening. Yes I've karaoke-ized them.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 8:52 PM on March 17, 2012
easy. Middle voices, instruments in unison, are maddening. Yes I've karaoke-ized them.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 8:52 PM on March 17, 2012
By "it's from Der Silbersee," I assume you mean it's an excerpt. Can you be any more specific about which excerpt?
And is it one of the excerpts in this score?
- set of songs from Der Silbersee
And/or is this score useful to you?
- orchestral suite from Der Silbersee
posted by kalapierson at 10:41 PM on March 17, 2012
And is it one of the excerpts in this score?
- set of songs from Der Silbersee
And/or is this score useful to you?
- orchestral suite from Der Silbersee
posted by kalapierson at 10:41 PM on March 17, 2012
And if you haven't, certainly try contacting the Kurt Weill Foundation directly.
posted by kalapierson at 10:42 PM on March 17, 2012
posted by kalapierson at 10:42 PM on March 17, 2012
Response by poster: Yes, I know about the suites. They cover the section I want. But I don't know if they're useful because I don't know if the parts are the same as the original, the full opera. Anyway, I can't find the suites either.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 1:09 AM on March 18, 2012
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 1:09 AM on March 18, 2012
Have you seen these pages?
http://www.universaledition.com/Der-Silbersee-Kurt-Weill/composers-and-works/composer/764/work/1926
and
http://www.universaledition.com/Der-Silbersee-for-soprano-mezzo-soprano-2-tenors-2-baritones-mixed-choir-orchestra-concert-version-Kurt-Weill/composers-and-works/composer/764/work/1927
As others have mentioned, it looks like the publisher, Universal, only sells a piano/vocal score, and the full score and set of parts are apparently only available for rental. That's why it doesn't show up in library catalogs, unfortunately.
You'd have to contact them to find out how much it would cost to get your hands on a score, but it could well be a lot... even more, of course, if your ultimate goal involves a performance with some of this material!
posted by mshultz at 2:41 AM on March 18, 2012
http://www.universaledition.com/Der-Silbersee-Kurt-Weill/composers-and-works/composer/764/work/1926
and
http://www.universaledition.com/Der-Silbersee-for-soprano-mezzo-soprano-2-tenors-2-baritones-mixed-choir-orchestra-concert-version-Kurt-Weill/composers-and-works/composer/764/work/1927
As others have mentioned, it looks like the publisher, Universal, only sells a piano/vocal score, and the full score and set of parts are apparently only available for rental. That's why it doesn't show up in library catalogs, unfortunately.
You'd have to contact them to find out how much it would cost to get your hands on a score, but it could well be a lot... even more, of course, if your ultimate goal involves a performance with some of this material!
posted by mshultz at 2:41 AM on March 18, 2012
Yeah this will be hard to find for free, I think. The demand even worldwide for scores like this are pretty small, therefore the prices are pretty huge usually.
Verifying the similarity of the Suite to the full opera should be possible, though. Test notes as you listen on whatever instrument you have to verify they are in the same key. With a few careful back and forth listens you should be able to tell if they are the same, or at least close enough that you can't tell the difference.
But I feel your pain. Transcribing a string quartet is one thing (that is difficult enough); sorting out, by ear, a full orchestral arrangement is basically impossible for everyone but a scattered few genetic freakazoids.
Got a link or clip of the passage in question? I would be curious to hear it.
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:03 AM on March 18, 2012
Verifying the similarity of the Suite to the full opera should be possible, though. Test notes as you listen on whatever instrument you have to verify they are in the same key. With a few careful back and forth listens you should be able to tell if they are the same, or at least close enough that you can't tell the difference.
But I feel your pain. Transcribing a string quartet is one thing (that is difficult enough); sorting out, by ear, a full orchestral arrangement is basically impossible for everyone but a scattered few genetic freakazoids.
Got a link or clip of the passage in question? I would be curious to hear it.
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:03 AM on March 18, 2012
Actually, not long ago I tried to find a piano score for Heitor Villa-Lobos' 'Rudepoema' for solo piano. To order it was over $50 and I'll never be able to play it anyway, so I declined.
But I found on YouTube that some posters of classical piano pieces, including Rudepoema, use the video element to show each page of the score as the music plays, so you can follow along. This may be less common and less feasible with a full orchestral/choral score, but maybe it's out there.
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:07 AM on March 18, 2012
But I found on YouTube that some posters of classical piano pieces, including Rudepoema, use the video element to show each page of the score as the music plays, so you can follow along. This may be less common and less feasible with a full orchestral/choral score, but maybe it's out there.
posted by TheRedArmy at 9:07 AM on March 18, 2012
Yes, I know about the suites. They cover the section I want. But I don't know if they're useful because I don't know if the parts are the same as the original, the full opera.
This might be helpful then: the original version and the later versions (suites and song set) definitely don't have the same parts. You can tell by the lists of orchestration on the pages I linked to:
The original score, the one I see you care about, is listed as
2 (picc).2 (Eng hn).2.2; 2.2.2.0; harp, piano (celesta), perc; strings.
That means:
- 2 flutes (one of these people also plays piccolo sometimes), 2 oboes (one of these people also plays English Horn sometimes), 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons
- 2 horns, 2 trumpets, 2 trombones, no tuba
- 1 harp
- 1 pianist (also plays celesta sometimes)
- 1 percussionist [they don't specify which instruments; you'd just have to tell by ear]
- unspecified number of strings (generally understood as however many will balance well with the specified wind and brass forces)
So that's the max set of instruments you're hearing and you'd be trying to reproduce parts for by ear. I agree with TheRedArmy -- damn near impossible to do perfectly in most cases, even for extremely experienced people.
(But what exactly is your end goal? If you want to share, maybe we could help you more if we knew.)
posted by kalapierson at 6:53 PM on March 18, 2012
This might be helpful then: the original version and the later versions (suites and song set) definitely don't have the same parts. You can tell by the lists of orchestration on the pages I linked to:
The original score, the one I see you care about, is listed as
2 (picc).2 (Eng hn).2.2; 2.2.2.0; harp, piano (celesta), perc; strings.
That means:
- 2 flutes (one of these people also plays piccolo sometimes), 2 oboes (one of these people also plays English Horn sometimes), 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons
- 2 horns, 2 trumpets, 2 trombones, no tuba
- 1 harp
- 1 pianist (also plays celesta sometimes)
- 1 percussionist [they don't specify which instruments; you'd just have to tell by ear]
- unspecified number of strings (generally understood as however many will balance well with the specified wind and brass forces)
So that's the max set of instruments you're hearing and you'd be trying to reproduce parts for by ear. I agree with TheRedArmy -- damn near impossible to do perfectly in most cases, even for extremely experienced people.
(But what exactly is your end goal? If you want to share, maybe we could help you more if we knew.)
posted by kalapierson at 6:53 PM on March 18, 2012
Response by poster: Don't mean to be cagey. I'm worried about the discussion going off track. Plus I'm not sure what my end goal is.
In the short term I wanted to reproduce the Lottery agent's song (a.k.a. "Was zahlen Sie für einen Rat", "Lied des Lotterieagenten" "Lotterie-agent's tango"). Following the exact instrumentation was an obsession that sort of formed itself spontaneously. I thought I might eventually revamp it into something else. If that sounds vague, it's because my intentions are vague.
Either the clarinets are laying out for that number or clarinets are impossible to pick out in a mix. Piano, also, is audible nowhere. I've got the Ute Lemper version, London Sinfonietta, and another one from youtube. It's at the 1:20 mark here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtOiZDJ664Q
I think I can approximate it fine- I don't know why I got perfectionist on this one. Who cares if the harp is backing up pizzicato strings? I do! I thank you all again.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 6:26 PM on March 19, 2012
In the short term I wanted to reproduce the Lottery agent's song (a.k.a. "Was zahlen Sie für einen Rat", "Lied des Lotterieagenten" "Lotterie-agent's tango"). Following the exact instrumentation was an obsession that sort of formed itself spontaneously. I thought I might eventually revamp it into something else. If that sounds vague, it's because my intentions are vague.
Either the clarinets are laying out for that number or clarinets are impossible to pick out in a mix. Piano, also, is audible nowhere. I've got the Ute Lemper version, London Sinfonietta, and another one from youtube. It's at the 1:20 mark here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtOiZDJ664Q
I think I can approximate it fine- I don't know why I got perfectionist on this one. Who cares if the harp is backing up pizzicato strings? I do! I thank you all again.
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 6:26 PM on March 19, 2012
« Older How to be notified when new issues of comic books... | I just want to wake up like a normal person Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
That edition is here and is the piano reduction.
Depending on what your purposes are (e.g. if they're academic), you might try writing to the Foundation.
It looks like the work is still in copyright, so anyone publishing a free score to the web is perhaps tempting fate.
posted by Jahaza at 7:40 PM on March 17, 2012 [1 favorite]