How do I deal with noise-sensitive neighbors?
February 26, 2012 7:29 AM   Subscribe

How do I deal with noise-sensitive neighbors?

I am this poster's neighbor. Well, not exactly, but my downstairs neighbors are frequently upset with us for making too much noise. At least once a week they call to complain, and when they do, the building staff buzzes my apartment. The buzzer is extremely loud and jarring, and of course they always manage to do it just as I am trying to put baby Snickerdoodle down for a nap.

Things we have done:

1. Installed a soundproofing layer under our floors

2. Put large rugs in every room except the bathroom and kitchen (and even that has a kitchen pad)

3. Volunteered to sit in their apartments while my husband walks around to see if there are trouble spots that we can address (they did not take us up on this)

4. Stopped wearing shoes in the apartment

This has been going on for several years, but things have gotten far worse since I had a baby, as she wakes up early and so do we. Recently, they started pounding on the ceiling when baby Snickerdoodle drops or pushes something on the floor, and now she thinks it's a fun game. I honestly don't know how they'll cope when she starts running around.

We all own, so moving is not feasible. What can I do to improve relations? If you've been my downstairs neighbor, what actions did your noisy neighbors take to make you feel better? I just want these calls to stop.

For what it's worth, our apartment was only used occasionally by the previous owners, so I think they just got used to having no neighbors.
posted by snickerdoodle to Human Relations (35 answers total) 10 users marked this as a favorite
 
I honestly don't know how they'll cope when she starts running around.

All I can say to this is that you're right, it is going to be MUCH worse. My sister lived in an apartment beneath a neighbor whose child used to run laps around the coffee table whenever she got excited or bored or whatever, and it was just this steady drumming sound directly overhead, many many times a day. You and your husband have trained yourselves to walk as quietly as possible, but baby snickerdoodle won't share your concern.

I think you need to have another talk with your neighbors, in which you explain (again) what precautions you have taken, and you explain what they can reasonably expect from living beneath a growing baby. See if any further compromise can be reached, but ultimately it sounds like you're going to just have to start ignoring their complaints.

(Complaining about the noise of the buzzer seems a little petty, considering that it's in response to a complaint about your own noise).
posted by hermitosis at 7:37 AM on February 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


1. Replace buzzer in your apartment with pleasant-sounding chime that uses the same voltage as the nasty buzzer.

2. Tell your neighbors that you've done all you can do. Then stop apologizing and making concessions, as that only encourages them.
posted by jon1270 at 7:39 AM on February 26, 2012 [49 favorites]


What can I do to improve relations? If you've been my downstairs neighbor, what actions did your noisy neighbors take to make you feel better? I just want these calls to stop.

I don't know if you can improve relations, and it doesn't sound like your neighbors actually want to. I think you should change your focus from appeasing your neighbors to living comfortably in your own home. People make noise. That your neighbors are hyper-sensitive to the normal sounds of life around them is not your problem to solve.

What happens when the building staff buzzes your apartment? Do they say "quiet down"? Do they come and observe what you're doing? If this is a condo association then they will have procedures for addressing issues like this, so if your neighbor is using the building staff as an intermediary, and they are acting in that role by buzzing your apt in response to complaints, then put it in their hands. At this point I would do so in writing, to both the building staff and the neighbors. Write down every accommodation you've made, every attempt you've made to engage directly with your neighbors, etc.
posted by headnsouth at 7:44 AM on February 26, 2012 [11 favorites]


Having lived in multi-floor urban dwellings for three years now, I feel somewhat infuriated with people who are noise-sensitive who insist on living on these buildings. That's not how they work. If you want to never hear stuff above you, it's time to live in the burbs. Like every realistic person I know who lives in these kind of buildings, I sleep with good earplugs. Yeah, I'd be mad if my upstairs neighbor had loud parties, but even normal footsteps can be annoying in many buildings...if you don't make an effort to get used to them.

You've already done waaaay more than anyone I've ever heard of. At this point they are harassing you and you should call the building staff and complain about THEM knocking on your ceiling when you are not making unreasonable levels of noise.
posted by melissam at 7:57 AM on February 26, 2012 [56 favorites]


You've done what you can from your end, at some expense to you. If they cannot tolerate a little noise (I'm assuming you don't play loud music at 4 AM or engage in other very noisy activities) then they're just going to have to modify their ceiling. If it's an older building with wood framing they can put insulation into the ceiling. If it's a newer building then they will probably have to add something to the bottom of their ceiling. Either way, it's not your problem. As others have said, Write up everything you've done and give it to them and to the management, and change your buzzer. If they keep pounding on the ceiling that is harassment, report that behavior to the managment. It sounds like they've got some issues. Have you ever met these people?
posted by mareli at 8:00 AM on February 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'll agree with everyone above.

Butl I can add is that maybe you can nicely ask the building staff to find a different way to contact you about the complaint, or replace or muffle the buzzer -- pointing out calmly and somewhat humorously to both parties that the buzzer and pounding on the ceiling are contributing to the problem.

This is an interesting article about sound transmission. It's the frequencies, I guess, that disturb them.

One of the other things you can do, because this is a neighbour on neighbour problem, and it's all about perception, is to good-naturedly work to shift the blame to the building in your neighbour's mind, and well, to the staff too. Because after you've made reasonable accommodations, it's not just your fault any more, if it ever was.

After a complaint from the neighbour: "Wow. We've done all we can. It's too bad the building's construction doesn't provide a better sound barrier, isn't it?" "Wow, this is just normal use and enjoyment and trying to be considerate. This building really couldn't handle people who are naturally louder than us and careless." And to the staff: "Wow. Thanks, building staff, for letting us know that our neighbour is being disturbed by a plush teddy bear that has been dropped on the carpet. What would it take to have an acoustical engineer look at the building - since surely you're tired of being the go-between for such complaints after all we've done on our part to improve it for them?"
posted by peagood at 8:01 AM on February 26, 2012 [10 favorites]


Wow, you sound awesome. Don't worry about it. And I say this as an apartment dweller that lives below a noisy neighbor who is the key figure in many homicidal fantasies.
posted by Brian Puccio at 8:21 AM on February 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


In my experience there are two kinds of neighbors (generalizations, I know). The ones that accept that by virtue of living in an apartment, some noise will happen, ans thus they only complain when it becomes unreasonable. There there are the ones I like to refer to to as the "OMG SOUNDS!" people. For some reason, these people move into apartments buildings with hundreds of other tenants and yet are totally shocked and appalled that they may not always be able to hear a pin drop.

In every apartment that I have ever lived in I attempt to be a good neighbor by:

1) Getting rugs or carpeting.
2) Using headphones with all my music and TV.
3) taking off my shoes as soon as I enter (because high heels tend to make you sound like a two legged horse).
4) Don't have parties, frequent guests, or ever speak loudly.
5) Any other reasonable and specific adjustments that my neighbors ask for (such as, I can hear you slid open your closet door all the time, can you get new runners for it? etc).

However, this is all that I will do. If a neighbor is still not happy then they are welcome to kiss my ass. They will just have to live with the fact that apartments contain noise and if they can't handle that, that is their problem, and on them to move the hell out to a corn field or wherever those people go when they can't handle the realities of a city any longer.

You have been more then reasonable. You have been respectful and compromised. You have done all that you need to do.

When you move into an apartment, you accept that those around you may have children, dogs, parties, etc. If they can't handle a reasonable amount of noise from your child (some crying and running about) that is on them.

"You can either move, shut up, or be reasonable, but those are the only options that will be given." I have said this more then once to OMG!S people with great success. Worst case, they call the cops and you explain all that you have done to mitigate the noise. If you have taken appropriate steps and are within the bounds of local noise ordinances then eventually the police with tell them to "get over it or move" for you.

Oh, and if they keep buzzing you and banging on the ceiling, you can call the cops on them. Explain all that you have done to mitigate sound and that the neighbors are being loud and harassing you. Don't assume that you are automatically in the wrong just because you have a kid. They are being intentionally loud and disruptive to you. Cops know how to recognize and deal with OMG!S people, believe me, they do it all the time.
posted by Shouraku at 8:23 AM on February 26, 2012 [10 favorites]


Have you invited them up to see what you've done to minimize noise? They might be more understanding then.
posted by Carol Anne at 8:24 AM on February 26, 2012


You need to contact the building manager, let him know the steps you've already taken, and ask him if he thinks the neighbor's constant complaints have merit. Because once the building manager realizes that his constant buzzing is a waste of his time, he'll stop doing it.

Then to tackle the downstairs neighbors, you need to be very upfront with them: "This is a multi-unit building, and you knew when you moved in that there was the possibility that someone with a baby, a puppy, or a walker could have moved in above you. The noise we make is reasonable for daily life, and it's a shame the soundproofing between our units isn't better, but no amount of pounding on the ceiling or alerting the building manager is going to stop the reasonable amount of noise we make while living our lives."

Don't become like I did and start tiptoeing through life and cringing/hyperventilating when something is dropped. I spent months without a spine until I grew one thanks to Metafilter.
posted by juniperesque at 8:26 AM on February 26, 2012 [31 favorites]


I feel for you. I think the suggestions above are great, and you've done everything you can to appease them.

Perhaps you should work on adjusting your attitude. You seem to think that YOU are the noise problem. No, THEY are the noise problem. They're POUNDING ON THE CEILING? I can't imagine a more jarring, upsetting, disruptive thing to do to a family ... especially a family with a toddler? Their actions are positively anti-social. Harrassing you by complaining to the landlord? Come on, these people are nuts. You need to accept that YOU are not the problem, and perhaps be proactive in COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR COMPLAINING. Don't sit back and wait to be contacted by the landlord; proactively go to the landlord and talk about how these hypersensitive nitwits are destroying your peace and sanity with their constant pounding and complaining over the natural and expected noises you are making in your apartment, despite your best efforts to keep the noise level down. Enlist the landlord in your own defense, just as they have enlisted the landlord in theirs. (As long as you passively hang back and wait for the landlord to convey a complaint, you look like you're at fault.) Your message to the landlord needs to be: "this. has. got. to. stop. We have a toddler, and we have taken great measures to satisfy these people, and their abusive and ridiculous demands are disturbing us to no end." You just don't pound on people's ceilings when you know they have a small child and you know they've taken extraordinary measures to reduce their sound, out of courtesy to you. They are uncivil and worthy of not a shred of further consideration from you. It's slam-the-door-in-their-face, tell-'em-to-fuck-themselves time.

As I get older, the more astonished I get at the infantile, entitled, unreflective, radically inconsiderate adults who are at large in our communities. I think a position of no apology and no surrender to these fools is the only way to deal with them. You have to be as aggressive and unapologetic to them, as they are to you. Or move.
posted by jayder at 8:30 AM on February 26, 2012 [12 favorites]


One thing I think others are not picking up on is that you mentioned neighbors and the downstairs apartments.

If there are multiple apartments that are having issues with your noise, then they may be helping to feed each others' annoyance, keeping the issues alive (either fairly or unfairly). I'd second the suggestion above about changing the buzzer into a chime, but if there are multiple apartments involved, this might be a more complicated issue.
posted by arnicae at 8:31 AM on February 26, 2012


Years ago I was in a situation where I was the ceiling banger, in a house with a noisy child in an upstairs apartment. The ceiling was acoustical tiles glued to furring strips, and eventually I punched through one of them. That learned me the lesson that responding in kind was not a good idea. And after a few conversations with the single mom upstairs, we started understanding each other's issues and being more tolerant.

So before calling the cops, or whatever, I'd suggest a solid try at communication. Invite them to your place, show them what you're doing. Ask for their suggestions on what else might help. Hopefully they respond positively, and they reciprocate by allowing you to come down and hear the problem from their perspective. In these conversations, try to reach an agreement that they won't bang ceilings anymore, and you'll do whatever else seems reasonable.
posted by beagle at 8:33 AM on February 26, 2012


You need to contact the building manager, let him know the steps you've already taken, and ask him if he thinks the neighbor's constant complaints have merit. Because once the building manager realizes that his constant buzzing is a waste of his time, he'll stop doing it.

This is very important.

Your neighbors have nothing to gain by becoming friends with you. They're sensitive to noise, and they apparently enjoy a good gripe every now and then. You want a way to reason them into being more compassionate, but they have no desire to feel compassion for you. It seems like the system is working pretty well for them -- they get you to be as quiet as you can, and they get to make noisy, distracting complaints anytime they're upset. Nothing's going to change, so long as you think of this as a problem you have with them.

Think of this, instead, as a problem you have with the condo association, or whatever it is. The building either has shoddy construction or the managers are caving into every whim of your super-grumpy downstairs neighbors. Either way, it's interfering with your life.

Keep that in mind: this is interfering with your life. You have rights, here. People have the basic expectation that they should be able to live in their own homes. Do what it takes to convince the managers that you're doing everything one could reasonably expect to keep noise down. Don't put up with the status quo, where they upset you every time your neighbor feels like complaining. Work to make it so the issue is a problem between your neighbor and the managers, rather between your neighbor and you.
posted by meese at 9:01 AM on February 26, 2012 [6 favorites]


Arnicae I am not seeing that the upstairs neighbors have complained.
posted by LarryC at 9:13 AM on February 26, 2012


A possible solution: you go to your neighbors and say, "I know the noise is a problem for you, and we've done X, Y, and Z to address it. Clearly you're still experiencing this as an ongoing issue even though we've done everything we can think of to address it. Let's do this: we all go to the building staff office and make a case for some kind of investigation and engineering-based solution. We tell them we've done the tenant-level changes, and they haven't solved the problem. We should approach the building staff about building-level changes that might be necessary. What do you say?"

This does a couple things: first, it puts you on the same team with your neighbors instead of being on opposing sides; second, it makes the noise the building manager's problem. Chances are, your neighbors just have unreasonable expectations, in which case building management can tell them so. But what if there truly is a structural issue? That would be the building management's responsibility, right? Either way, you've done what you can and now it's time for the building staff to handle the problem.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:16 AM on February 26, 2012 [15 favorites]


Basically, I agree with what's being said in this thread -- you've already done more than many people would in an attempt to appease your neighbors, and at a certain point you have to just accept that you can't make them happy.

However, I'd caution you against feeling like you have to hold yourself to the same standards as some of the other commenters -- I don't think it's reasonable to expect people in their own home to consume all of their media with headphones or to never host guests or small parties. Please don't let your neighbor convince you that measures of this magnitude are a necessity -- it's your home and you have to live your life. Operating under that kind of pressure will just make you crazy.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 9:25 AM on February 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


Any chance you can swap apartments with them?
posted by bq at 9:37 AM on February 26, 2012


This:
3. Volunteered to sit in their apartments while my husband walks around to see if there are trouble spots that we can address (they did not take us up on this)
says to me that they're not worried about improving neighbor relations or working together to solve a problem.

You've done a lot. They don't even want to talk or do something that could conceivably help reduce sound. They just want to be cranky bastards. (Do they know that you installed soundproofing and carpeting and stopped wearing shoes?)

I would tell the building manager what you have done and that these neighbors are harassing you. Ask them if there is a method they can use other than the buzzer when these situations arise.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:50 AM on February 26, 2012 [6 favorites]


I'm trying to figure out how much noise you could be making while you're putting your baby down for a nap that they have to call and complain, such that the building management buzzes your apartment just as the baby is falling asleep. My bet is not very much. Presumably this is during the day, as well - seems like an unreasonable expectation on their part for silence at all times.

I agree with telling the building manager everything you've done. If they feel like they must notify you (by buzzing) whenever they get a complain, perhaps you could ask them to text you instead, if you're a text user, or call your cell phone or something slightly less startling to you and your baby?
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 10:03 AM on February 26, 2012


You INSTALLED SOUNDPROOFING and they did not at least start being more polite in their requests? I'm sorry, but fuck them (that is the first time I have sworn in person or in writing for at least a few months).

Send them a letter similar to juniperesqe's. Send a similar letter to building management explaining you are being harassed and asking them not to buzz you when that neighbor complains. If neighbors keep pounding on the ceiling, complain to the building or to a lawyer.

There is a time for accomodating requests, but this is not it. If they want silence they should have bought a top-floor condo. They are bullying and harassing you.
posted by _Silky_ at 10:21 AM on February 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


Of course babies are louder. If someone doesn't want to hear babies or kids, they need to rent from a complex that has a no-kids rule.

Having lived in a place with an infant in an apartment upstairs and an infant in an apartment in the next building, I've heard a lot of crying and knocking over of items, etc., but I will say that the worst was this: the upstairs baby had discovered that same awesome new game of drop-things-on-the-floor-and-mom-picks-up, and, unfortunately, this was happening while he was in his highchair in the kitchen, which had a tile floor. This was really, really loud and obnoxious. I had my mind arranged for dealing with other baby noises like crying, etc., but this one sent me up the wall. So, it sounds like you've done what you can about the rest, but since it seems you might have the same drop game happening, just toss an extra sufficiently sized thick throw rug under where baby sits and drops stuff if the floor isn't actually carpeted.

Beyond this, I can't imagine what else you can do if the neighbors won't allow a listen test.
posted by taz at 10:22 AM on February 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


I get bugged out by noise when it seems inconsiderate (real-life examples: a five am party with conga lines, eight am leafblower use, and a neighbor with an electric drumset who put it on blast and was offended by the idea that he might wear headphones).

With that in mind, do your neighbors know how much you've done to accommodate them? Because it sounds like you guys have really gone all out, and your noise is not excessive or inconsiderate to start with. If they don't know, please make them aware of it -- and if they are STILL mad after that, they are unreasonable and need not be placated further.
posted by feets at 10:47 AM on February 26, 2012


You really do have to start putting everything in writing, including the efforts you've made so far and what you're willing to do, such as your offer to do a listen test. I'd strongly suggest having a paid third party such as an engineer or the people who installed the subfloor attend that testing, plus a representative from building management.

Most noise codes have some kind of clause about the sound of normal activity. Look it up in your city's ordinances and quote it. If you're feeling zingy, suggest that banging on the ceiling is not normal activity. You don't necessarily need to use the word harassment in your initial letter, but make it clear that frivolous noise complaints are no longer going to be tolerated.

And go ahead and start logging and documenting their noise complaints.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:31 AM on February 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Thanks, everyone. It's really been helpful to know that we're not crazy here.

Unfortunately, changing the buzzer is not an option, so I'll ask the staff to call our cell phones instead. They've been very sympathetic, so I think that's the best solution for now.

They do know that we installed a subfloor, and that we have rugs down (the building inspected our apartment at their behest). They're now requesting that we put in wall-to-wall carpeting, via a letter to the management company. They honestly seem to believe that we're stomping our feet while wearing heels at all hours. I think they're blaming all noise on us when it's not the case (they once complained about "loud men talking" when I was literally home alone in bed with the flu).
posted by snickerdoodle at 11:57 AM on February 26, 2012


(they once complained about "loud men talking" when I was literally home alone in bed with the flu)

Yeah, you really need to talk to the management company and share everything you've told us here to make sure they fully understand what's going on. Your neighbors seem crazy and mean and you do not want them being the only folks management is hearing from. Document everything that's happened so far and send it in a registered letter to the building managers.
posted by mediareport at 1:04 PM on February 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


snickerdoodle: "they once complained about "loud men talking" when I was literally home alone in bed with the flu"

Are they hearing OTHER apartments in the building through the ventilation system? But without their [apparently not forthcoming] cooperation, there's no way to know.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 1:07 PM on February 26, 2012 [5 favorites]


Noise travels oddly and illogically in old buildings. In my first apartment building in Philly, we started getting multiple notices from the newish building management about highly unlikely or even impossible noise complaints (allegations of party noise during a weekend for which we were out of town.) We replied with an explanation, suggested that the complaints must be a misunderstanding, and affirmed that we are careful to not be noisy neighbors. One night, somewhat late, a neighbor starts banging on our door screaming to keep it down. Um, we were asleep. I stagger to the door in pajamas, and she accuses us of -- I am not kidding -- turning off the loud music as soon as we heard the knocking and pretending to be asleep to mess with her.

I complained sternly to the management, who didn't have much to say (oh, now they're all "can't get involved in disputes." Awesome!) but I also mentioned it to the super the next time I saw him. He was an old dude who had been with the building for many years; he guessed that the pipes were transmitting sound from another apartment and said he'd look into it. Lo and behold, there had been complaints that matched the crazy neighbor's regarding another apartment a few doors down from mine. Neighbor was informed, and brought us flowers to apologize, noting that it really did sound for all the world like the noise was coming from right above her head. (Yay, happy endings!)

So, yes, nthing getting the building management involved, including anyone whose going to have more practical knowledge than the office people. Also staying calm and pointing out that you've done everything you can reasonably do. (If the neighbors aren't happy with what you've done so far, wall-to-wall carpeting isn't going to satisfy them either.) And replace your buzzer with something gentler on the ears.
posted by desuetude at 1:27 PM on February 26, 2012


It sounds like this is a one-apartment-per-floor situation. If that's the case, and they're "hearing" noises that don't exist, and they don't want to try the listening test... Ugh. They're miserable people and they want everyone else to be just as miserable as they are. Pity them and get on with your life.
posted by giraffe at 1:29 PM on February 26, 2012


I think you should take the ball right into their court: see if you can get your building's manager to agree come with you to have a listen while your husband tramps around. Ask your neighbor when they would be willing to have this happen, and let them know building staff will be involved. I think this would help your own peace of mind to know exactly what they are/are not hearing, and to make it clear to them for once and for all that they are being outrageous. If they refuse, let them know you will take no futher action on the matter except to call the police when they bang on the ceiling.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:39 PM on February 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Is if footsteps they're mainly complaint about? This seems ridiculous to me. It's clearly not the case that you're jumping on the floor or dancing every night or stomping around in hob-nailed boots for hours on end, or pacing the apartment in high-heeled shoes at 4:00 AM. If the downstairs neighbor is disturbed by your normal and unexceptional everyday movement around your apartment, then this is either a problem that must be solved by the building (in the downstairs neighbor's apartment and at downstairs neighbor's expense) if it is the case that the between-floor sound dampening is that flimsy, or by the downstairs neighbor getting over it. Because it sounds very much to me that any sound whatsoever is considered unacceptable by your downstairs neighbor, and that's simply not your problem. You are allowed to live in your apartment and make normal use of the apartment at normal hours. You seem to have taken extreme measures to solve this problem, and nothing seems to please your downstairs neighbor. So at this point, I think it's incumbent upon your downstairs neighbor to demonstrate both to you and the building just what sounds in their apartment are unacceptable, and then some determination can be made as to what is and is not acceptable and what can and cannot reasonably be done. I suppose it's possible that the building really is that flimsy between floors, but my money is on your downstairs neighbor having unrealistic expectations.
posted by slkinsey at 2:18 PM on February 26, 2012


Your downstairs neighbors are completely unreasonable. don't put in wall-to-wall unless they pay for it.

I don't know what jurisdiction you are in and it's not quiet clear whether you are renters or owners, but is there a place where resident disputes can be arbitrated? As renters in Ontario, we once had serious problems with a neighbor accusing us of being too noisy - the only way to deal with it was for both of us to be threatened with eviction and both be taken to court by the landlord. But at least we figured out what was going on: she was mentally ill and had been "hearing things" (like parties when we were all sleeping) - so we weren't evicted.
posted by jb at 10:41 PM on February 26, 2012


Sorry you're having this problem. I think complaining about ordinary apartment noises is totally unreasonable, and if the person doesn't want to hear noise from above they should move to the top floor. You've already made an effort to contain the noise. I'd be willing to bet that even if you put in carpet they would still complain.

Seconding checking your local noise ordinances. Here, if it's before 10pm, you're ok and even so, I doubt what they're complaining of would constitute a noise nuisance. Putting everything in writing and involving the management are excellent suggestions.

I recently was informed by the management that my downstairs neighbor complained about us moving furniture around in the middle of the night. I don't know what she was hearing, but it wasn't us.

Good luck!
posted by lawhound at 8:48 AM on February 27, 2012


Update: I did talk to the staff, and they've stopped calling when the neighbors complain, but now she's reacting by constantly banging on the ceiling (this morning's complaint was caused by a dropped belt buckle as my husband was getting dressed). I e-mailed the building management, and they said that they've confirmed we're not doing anything wrong, but that they were not going to get involved in a neighborly dispute.

So I guess we're in a holding pattern, but I do want to thank everyone for helping me get over the feeling guilty for upsetting them.

Did I mention they filed bogus complaints with the building department about us? Gah.
posted by snickerdoodle at 12:07 PM on March 5, 2012


Did I mention they filed bogus complaints with the building department about us? Gah.

Wow. What miserable creeps.
posted by jayder at 12:39 PM on March 5, 2012


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