Does BPD "rub off" on others?
February 9, 2012 6:57 AM Subscribe
Dated a girl with borderline personality disorder, and now I'm feeling like her behaviors and symptoms of the disorder are present in me. Is this a common thing for those involved with people with BPD to experience?
A year and a half ago I met a girl online who I was drawn to instantly. We clicked very well together, and things got very serious very quickly. Within days we were talking about sex, getting a place together, and those sorts of things that don't normally come up within such a short timeframe. She told me that when she was younger, she had been hospitalized for borderline personality disorder, but that was years ago and she said that she'd recovered and had no symptoms anymore. I didn't know what BPD was, so I believed her.
Things were rocky after a few months. She wanted to move in with me, and was going to, but canceled her flight at the last minute and broke up with me, citing no reason. A couple of weeks later, we were back together and she was planning her next moving-in-with-me opportunity. She alternated between being icy one hour and affectionate the next. It made me very insecure, particularly considering the breakup that we'd just had.
She got here, things were great, and then I was in a bad mood one day and she decided to move back home. That day she left. A month later she broke up with me and that was that.
I looked up BPD and I realized that whatever she'd fed me about "being recovered" was a lie. She had virtually all the symptoms (impulsive behavior, history of abuse, vagabond way of living going from place to place without planning, unstable relationships, substance abuse, volatile moods, generally trying to screw with others' minds before they got the chance to screw with hers) and that terrified me for a number of reasons.
She still plays mind games with me a lot. She'll message me after months of not communicating, wanting to talk about her new boyfriend, and at the end of the message she'll throw in something like "you're still just as beautiful as you were the day I met you". It drives me insane. I'm moving on. I'm seeing someone else (someone more stable).
The problem now is that I'm scared all of her behaviors have rubbed off on me.
I get abrasive, impulsive. I don't think things through. All my life I sat quietly and thought for days before making the smallest decision. Now I've been in trouble with the law, I've been impulsive with money, I quit jobs after two weeks, and the only reason I can come up with is "because I feel like it".
Before her, I had never touched any kind of drug. Not illicit, not alcohol, not even cigarettes. I won't go into detail but now it's the complete opposite.
Relationships with my family are nonexistent. I don't talk to them. When I do, it's yelling. It was never like that before.
I can understand a personality change post-relationship, but in my case, my personality changes mirror all the harmful elements of hers. Is this a common thing with people who have been close to those with BPD? Do BPD traits "rub off" on others who have been exposed to them? I doubt I actually have BPD, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that a lot of those traits have manifested themselves in me without me knowing about it. So simply put: do those close to people with BPD begin exhibiting BPD traits of their own during or post-interaction?
A year and a half ago I met a girl online who I was drawn to instantly. We clicked very well together, and things got very serious very quickly. Within days we were talking about sex, getting a place together, and those sorts of things that don't normally come up within such a short timeframe. She told me that when she was younger, she had been hospitalized for borderline personality disorder, but that was years ago and she said that she'd recovered and had no symptoms anymore. I didn't know what BPD was, so I believed her.
Things were rocky after a few months. She wanted to move in with me, and was going to, but canceled her flight at the last minute and broke up with me, citing no reason. A couple of weeks later, we were back together and she was planning her next moving-in-with-me opportunity. She alternated between being icy one hour and affectionate the next. It made me very insecure, particularly considering the breakup that we'd just had.
She got here, things were great, and then I was in a bad mood one day and she decided to move back home. That day she left. A month later she broke up with me and that was that.
I looked up BPD and I realized that whatever she'd fed me about "being recovered" was a lie. She had virtually all the symptoms (impulsive behavior, history of abuse, vagabond way of living going from place to place without planning, unstable relationships, substance abuse, volatile moods, generally trying to screw with others' minds before they got the chance to screw with hers) and that terrified me for a number of reasons.
She still plays mind games with me a lot. She'll message me after months of not communicating, wanting to talk about her new boyfriend, and at the end of the message she'll throw in something like "you're still just as beautiful as you were the day I met you". It drives me insane. I'm moving on. I'm seeing someone else (someone more stable).
The problem now is that I'm scared all of her behaviors have rubbed off on me.
I get abrasive, impulsive. I don't think things through. All my life I sat quietly and thought for days before making the smallest decision. Now I've been in trouble with the law, I've been impulsive with money, I quit jobs after two weeks, and the only reason I can come up with is "because I feel like it".
Before her, I had never touched any kind of drug. Not illicit, not alcohol, not even cigarettes. I won't go into detail but now it's the complete opposite.
Relationships with my family are nonexistent. I don't talk to them. When I do, it's yelling. It was never like that before.
I can understand a personality change post-relationship, but in my case, my personality changes mirror all the harmful elements of hers. Is this a common thing with people who have been close to those with BPD? Do BPD traits "rub off" on others who have been exposed to them? I doubt I actually have BPD, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that a lot of those traits have manifested themselves in me without me knowing about it. So simply put: do those close to people with BPD begin exhibiting BPD traits of their own during or post-interaction?
Before her, I had never touched any kind of drug. Not illicit, not alcohol, not even cigarettes. I won't go into detail but now it's the complete opposite.
Depending on what you're now dabbling in, I'd point this out as the main culprit of your personality change. Get help, if you need to.
posted by xingcat at 7:06 AM on February 9, 2012 [39 favorites]
Depending on what you're now dabbling in, I'd point this out as the main culprit of your personality change. Get help, if you need to.
posted by xingcat at 7:06 AM on February 9, 2012 [39 favorites]
Could this be your mind's way of trying to "understand" her disorder, sort of from within by re-enacting? The only "rubbing-off"- effect I otherwise can think of at this moment is projection, which ought to be temporary: like when you talk to someone who acts nervous, you get nervous, but on a larger scale.
That said, you seem under stress and not handling it too well - yelling at your family, for example, is very much you yelling at your family. it has nothing to do with that girl. Soo - I'd tackle that pronto (and forget her).
posted by Namlit at 7:07 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
That said, you seem under stress and not handling it too well - yelling at your family, for example, is very much you yelling at your family. it has nothing to do with that girl. Soo - I'd tackle that pronto (and forget her).
posted by Namlit at 7:07 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't think BPD symptoms are usually considered "contagious," but a lot of the new behaviors and feelings you talk about - irritability, impulsiveness, etc. - can come along with using illicit drugs. Please get help to stop using these substances ASAP, so they don't gain any stronger foothold in your life.
posted by vytae at 7:08 AM on February 9, 2012
posted by vytae at 7:08 AM on February 9, 2012
Being wrapped up in her chaos has made you more chaotic and may have awoken or worsened behaviors you already had. While BPD is not contagious, you really should see a mental health professional, especially because you're self-harming and exhibiting many self-destructive tendencies. I suspect that your drinking and doing drugs are a huge factor here.
posted by inturnaround at 7:09 AM on February 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by inturnaround at 7:09 AM on February 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
Yes. People take mind altering substances to alter their minds, and then everyone wonders why their minds are altered. The substance abuse is most likely the root cause of your distress.
I have no doubt that she did influence you a great deal. AFAIK borderlines can be especially boundaryless and project especially through eliciting responses in you. Ever seen Manhunter, where the main character says to his son, "but after my body got okay, I still had Lecter's thoughts running around in my head..." When the Bible says "bad company corrupts" this is the kind of thing it means. And Cluster Bs have a very disturbing way of winding their intentions around your neurons like bindweed. I think it's pretty common for people to still be disturbed a year and a half later, it just takes time to weed the thoughts out.
I became less punctual and responsible for a while in a post-traumatic kinda way. But a complete personality change isn't something I've ever heard of.
Seriously, the prime mover here has got to be the drugs. Off to AA, or NA, or whoever, you should go without delay.
p.s. IANAD obviously.
posted by tel3path at 7:19 AM on February 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
I have no doubt that she did influence you a great deal. AFAIK borderlines can be especially boundaryless and project especially through eliciting responses in you. Ever seen Manhunter, where the main character says to his son, "but after my body got okay, I still had Lecter's thoughts running around in my head..." When the Bible says "bad company corrupts" this is the kind of thing it means. And Cluster Bs have a very disturbing way of winding their intentions around your neurons like bindweed. I think it's pretty common for people to still be disturbed a year and a half later, it just takes time to weed the thoughts out.
I became less punctual and responsible for a while in a post-traumatic kinda way. But a complete personality change isn't something I've ever heard of.
Seriously, the prime mover here has got to be the drugs. Off to AA, or NA, or whoever, you should go without delay.
p.s. IANAD obviously.
posted by tel3path at 7:19 AM on February 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Re: illicit drugs, that was poorly phrased. Nothing illegal for me. I'll have a drink a couple of nights a week, and I smoke cigarettes. She was very into drugs - meth, weed, pretty much whatever she could get.
I am seeing a psychiatrist about my self-harm and family issues. We're trying to work through it. The family thing is a lot to do with our current circumstances, but in the past I'd handle it calmly or excuse myself if I think things are too much. Now it's a lot of aggression, ad hominem attacks, general instability.
My main point is curiosity - is this just me trying to hold onto her despite myself, or have her behaviors subconsciously attached themselves to me? Being that I was so attached to her, probably the former, but it strikes me as bizarre that her personality has essentially become mine. My behaviors, maybe, arose in response to hers. I went from quiet to abrasive in order to keep up and stand on the same ground as her. It may be a way to understand it, but there is still this part of me that wants me to just stop, just forget about it and go back to the way I was before I end up like her.
I'm not necessarily asking if it's contagious, but rather if the BPD behaviors influence others to experience them as well in response.
posted by marriedtotacos at 7:23 AM on February 9, 2012
I am seeing a psychiatrist about my self-harm and family issues. We're trying to work through it. The family thing is a lot to do with our current circumstances, but in the past I'd handle it calmly or excuse myself if I think things are too much. Now it's a lot of aggression, ad hominem attacks, general instability.
My main point is curiosity - is this just me trying to hold onto her despite myself, or have her behaviors subconsciously attached themselves to me? Being that I was so attached to her, probably the former, but it strikes me as bizarre that her personality has essentially become mine. My behaviors, maybe, arose in response to hers. I went from quiet to abrasive in order to keep up and stand on the same ground as her. It may be a way to understand it, but there is still this part of me that wants me to just stop, just forget about it and go back to the way I was before I end up like her.
I'm not necessarily asking if it's contagious, but rather if the BPD behaviors influence others to experience them as well in response.
posted by marriedtotacos at 7:23 AM on February 9, 2012
I dated someone with BDP not too long ago. It really, really fucked with my head for all the same reasons you say. And yes, she too was "fine now". All the hot and cold, freaking out over nothing, lies (oh my god the lies! and if I expressed any doubt about what she was saying? Watch out!), and general emotional manipulation left me mentally burnt out after only 9 months.
Something like this can kill your self-esteem while at the same time making you angry and also making you think things like "if I was just more X, she wouldn't have been so bad".
It sent me on a few months of self-destructive behaviour that I am only now coming out of.
Get help (therapy if you can), stop substance abuse. And for god sake, block all communication.
posted by aclevername at 7:25 AM on February 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
Something like this can kill your self-esteem while at the same time making you angry and also making you think things like "if I was just more X, she wouldn't have been so bad".
It sent me on a few months of self-destructive behaviour that I am only now coming out of.
Get help (therapy if you can), stop substance abuse. And for god sake, block all communication.
posted by aclevername at 7:25 AM on February 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
All that to say, maybe these personality changes are *your* self-destructive phase post-relationship and nothing to do with any "rubbing off".
posted by aclevername at 7:28 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by aclevername at 7:28 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, it does. Been there done that. It took me a year to get over, you'll get over it too.
posted by dydecker at 7:28 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dydecker at 7:28 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
You are responsible for your actions and behavior. She isn't causing it. You have the power to control yourself.
posted by Houstonian at 7:28 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Houstonian at 7:28 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
I had the opposite thing happen to me. Some years ago I dated and then broke up with a girl with a lot of the symptoms of BPD (note: she was undiagnosed and I refrain from attempting an actual diagnosis).
It got me out of my head and on the path to confronting my own mental health issues. The experience of trying to have a relationship with someone for whom, on a moment-by-moment basis, everything was up for grabs really challenged a lot of my assumptions about the world.
The point: who knows how people affect you? Something like BPD can open up a window to a really weird reality that changes how you want to build your own world. Maybe you are trying on some new assumptions and seeing how you like them. That's okay -- as long as you understand your own boundaries and respect the boundaries of others.
posted by gauche at 7:40 AM on February 9, 2012
It got me out of my head and on the path to confronting my own mental health issues. The experience of trying to have a relationship with someone for whom, on a moment-by-moment basis, everything was up for grabs really challenged a lot of my assumptions about the world.
The point: who knows how people affect you? Something like BPD can open up a window to a really weird reality that changes how you want to build your own world. Maybe you are trying on some new assumptions and seeing how you like them. That's okay -- as long as you understand your own boundaries and respect the boundaries of others.
posted by gauche at 7:40 AM on February 9, 2012
Response by poster: kalessin - That makes a lot of sense, actually - emulating her behavior. When we talked online I'd adapt to her mood, tell her what she wanted, express myself the way she was at any given time. We've been apart for a year but for much of that year I still wanted her back, and during that same period was when I started drinking. I'm cutting back a lot now - been a couple of weeks since I've had a drink and I don't intend to have another anytime soon (I knew it was fucking with me before I even thought about all this), but during may-july 2011 I was drunk every night. I emulated her behavior a lot even when we were together, too.
But yes, the drinking probably had a fair bit to do with it in retrospect. I hadn't considered that.
This hasn't necessarily been a complete personality change. During the extremes, yes, but right now the behaviors feel more like tendencies than actual traits. I don't doubt that they could get more severe, though, which is why I'm trying to figure this out. I can feel myself getting over her, and definitely getting over the self-destructiveness for the most part (it was worst after we broke up but there are lingering elements that I just want to be done with).
The main thing is I definitely feel a lot less like myself - and a lot more like her, which isn't good because I'm done with her, I don't love her anymore, I'm getting on with life, but these little bits of her are still there, not in my heart but in my mind.
I've been terrified of talking to my psychiatrist about this but I figure I have to. Next appointment I'll bring it up.
posted by marriedtotacos at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2012
But yes, the drinking probably had a fair bit to do with it in retrospect. I hadn't considered that.
This hasn't necessarily been a complete personality change. During the extremes, yes, but right now the behaviors feel more like tendencies than actual traits. I don't doubt that they could get more severe, though, which is why I'm trying to figure this out. I can feel myself getting over her, and definitely getting over the self-destructiveness for the most part (it was worst after we broke up but there are lingering elements that I just want to be done with).
The main thing is I definitely feel a lot less like myself - and a lot more like her, which isn't good because I'm done with her, I don't love her anymore, I'm getting on with life, but these little bits of her are still there, not in my heart but in my mind.
I've been terrified of talking to my psychiatrist about this but I figure I have to. Next appointment I'll bring it up.
posted by marriedtotacos at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2012
Read up on Folie à deux. Short version: yes in some cases psychological states can be "infectious".
Personally, I'd just block all communications from her: Put a filter on your email so you don't even see them, block her phone number (send it straight to voicemail & delete without listening) etc etc.
Don't let her take up any of your precious headspace.
posted by pharm at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
Personally, I'd just block all communications from her: Put a filter on your email so you don't even see them, block her phone number (send it straight to voicemail & delete without listening) etc etc.
Don't let her take up any of your precious headspace.
posted by pharm at 7:42 AM on February 9, 2012 [4 favorites]
Talk to your doc - that's what they're there for. Mental health professionals aren't supposed to be judgmental (and if they are, find a new one!).
Sounds like a lot of your behaviors are a result of stress from dealing with someone who is mentally ill. I am a total mess/stress case/bitch after spending time with a mentally ill family member.
posted by radioamy at 7:47 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sounds like a lot of your behaviors are a result of stress from dealing with someone who is mentally ill. I am a total mess/stress case/bitch after spending time with a mentally ill family member.
posted by radioamy at 7:47 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Your relationship with her sounds very traumatic. Traumatic experiences can bring out some strange demons. I would see a therapist to help you sort this all out, and to get you back to feeling like yourself.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
posted by k8lin at 7:50 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry you're going through this.
posted by k8lin at 7:50 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
You were sick before you met her.
Here's the thing: sick people are drawn to sick people. In fact, it's one of the reasons why they say you shouldn't get into a relationship within your first year of sobriety, and (at least what I was taught) that you should be wary of anyone who is attracted to you during that time, because you're still so sick in the mind that anyone who is into you at that point is sick themselves in some way.
If I look back at all of my relationships before treatment I can now spot all the ways in which the other person was sick too, even if addiction wasn't their primary issue.
I'm not saying you were inclined towards BPD or addiction (though the latter seems like a possibility), but you were already not okay before you met her, and were likely attracted to the parts about her that weren't right either.
So yeah, therapy. And get your meds under control so you have a chance at not needing to mood-alter otherwise. If you still need to mood-alter once your mental health symptoms have been addressed, you need to consider that you're in addiction and need help for that too.
posted by mireille at 7:51 AM on February 9, 2012 [15 favorites]
Here's the thing: sick people are drawn to sick people. In fact, it's one of the reasons why they say you shouldn't get into a relationship within your first year of sobriety, and (at least what I was taught) that you should be wary of anyone who is attracted to you during that time, because you're still so sick in the mind that anyone who is into you at that point is sick themselves in some way.
If I look back at all of my relationships before treatment I can now spot all the ways in which the other person was sick too, even if addiction wasn't their primary issue.
I'm not saying you were inclined towards BPD or addiction (though the latter seems like a possibility), but you were already not okay before you met her, and were likely attracted to the parts about her that weren't right either.
So yeah, therapy. And get your meds under control so you have a chance at not needing to mood-alter otherwise. If you still need to mood-alter once your mental health symptoms have been addressed, you need to consider that you're in addiction and need help for that too.
posted by mireille at 7:51 AM on February 9, 2012 [15 favorites]
"You were sick before you met her. Here's the thing: sick people are drawn to sick people."
A good social presentation is actually part of these disorders. It's just as likely that you didn't see it coming, OP.
posted by tel3path at 8:31 AM on February 9, 2012 [9 favorites]
A good social presentation is actually part of these disorders. It's just as likely that you didn't see it coming, OP.
posted by tel3path at 8:31 AM on February 9, 2012 [9 favorites]
This is just a guess but I would think that some of her behaviors "wore off" on you because they're effective. Keeping people unbalanced and catering to your ever whim works (to an extent) perhaps not to make the person doing it happy but certainly to gain attention and concern. I think subconsciously you may have learned that and also learned that people will put up with it.
You learn that yelling at someone is not the end of the world and many times is effective or at least destabilizing. I'm not saying you willfully made the decision to act like her but you may have learned that these behaviors don't have immediate horrible effects. Combine that with the stress she put you in and her destabilizing influence on you and voila.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 8:32 AM on February 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
You learn that yelling at someone is not the end of the world and many times is effective or at least destabilizing. I'm not saying you willfully made the decision to act like her but you may have learned that these behaviors don't have immediate horrible effects. Combine that with the stress she put you in and her destabilizing influence on you and voila.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 8:32 AM on February 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
The family thing is a lot to do with our current circumstances, but in the past I'd handle it calmly or excuse myself if I think things are too much. Now it's a lot of aggression, ad hominem attacks, general instability.
I don't know about BPD but I know that for some people who have really not faced or dealt with family issues or who haven't felt grounded and safe with family and haven't confronted the person/people at the root of it, then the tension can really build up over time and it comes out in unexpected ways.
I went from quiet to abrasive in order to keep up and stand on the same ground as her.
Have you always been a "nice guy"? The peacemaker in your family? Someone who would rather avoid conflict than tell people what you really think?
It's possible that your girlfriend's behaviors were so extreme that you had to change your response from avoidance to confrontation, and now Pandora's Box is open. Your behavior is the pendulum swinging way over from one side (nice-guy, good boy) to the other (unreliable, irritable, impulsive).
The girlfriend's diagnosis isn't contagious, but maybe her behaviors served as a catalyst for your own deep-seated emotions to come out, and now you need to do some honest digging to find out what exactly it is you're reacting to. She's not around anymore, so it isn't her.
(I am just an untrained anonymous internet person viewing the situation you've described through the prism of my own experience. YMMV.)
posted by headnsouth at 8:34 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know about BPD but I know that for some people who have really not faced or dealt with family issues or who haven't felt grounded and safe with family and haven't confronted the person/people at the root of it, then the tension can really build up over time and it comes out in unexpected ways.
I went from quiet to abrasive in order to keep up and stand on the same ground as her.
Have you always been a "nice guy"? The peacemaker in your family? Someone who would rather avoid conflict than tell people what you really think?
It's possible that your girlfriend's behaviors were so extreme that you had to change your response from avoidance to confrontation, and now Pandora's Box is open. Your behavior is the pendulum swinging way over from one side (nice-guy, good boy) to the other (unreliable, irritable, impulsive).
The girlfriend's diagnosis isn't contagious, but maybe her behaviors served as a catalyst for your own deep-seated emotions to come out, and now you need to do some honest digging to find out what exactly it is you're reacting to. She's not around anymore, so it isn't her.
(I am just an untrained anonymous internet person viewing the situation you've described through the prism of my own experience. YMMV.)
posted by headnsouth at 8:34 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I disagree with the opinion that something must have been wrong with you for you have been drawn to her. As a very accommodating person who is eager to understand other people's points of view, even crazy ones, I have on a couple occasions become involved with, and been drawn into the world view of a cruel or manipulative partner. It can mess with you for a little bit but it is important not to forget who you were before you got spun around.
posted by steinsaltz at 8:38 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by steinsaltz at 8:38 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
P.S. Someone mentioned Manhunter as an example of this. Heck, Blue Velvet was about this too.
posted by steinsaltz at 8:39 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by steinsaltz at 8:39 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Her mental illness isn't contagious. You're experiencing something similar to what I've been through. I once dated a man who was shoddy and terribly flakey. Something I never was until he broke up with me and then I started exhibiting those exact behaviors of his. I was traumatized by what happened and somehow, it was my way of maintaining connection with the asshole. I got over it but it will take some time for you to. My therapist helped a lot! Get help. Please.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 8:45 AM on February 9, 2012
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 8:45 AM on February 9, 2012
I disagree with the opinion that something must have been wrong with you for you have been drawn to her.
I'm sorry if people are taking what I said as a judgement call. It most certainly is not-- to be "sick" is to have issues beyond one's control and to know that is to have the opportunity to be able to work on them. I'm extrapolating because the OP's history includes an indication that she had been working on addressing disordered thinking in the past.
I think it's really healthy to consider who you are drawn to and why. And I certainly am not judging. I've got a whole host of issues including bipolar disorder and addiction, and I have learned a lot in the treatment of both-- and thought that what I learned might be of help here.
posted by mireille at 8:53 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry if people are taking what I said as a judgement call. It most certainly is not-- to be "sick" is to have issues beyond one's control and to know that is to have the opportunity to be able to work on them. I'm extrapolating because the OP's history includes an indication that she had been working on addressing disordered thinking in the past.
I think it's really healthy to consider who you are drawn to and why. And I certainly am not judging. I've got a whole host of issues including bipolar disorder and addiction, and I have learned a lot in the treatment of both-- and thought that what I learned might be of help here.
posted by mireille at 8:53 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not really sure why, but it appears the OP's account has been disabled.
posted by 8dot3 at 8:57 AM on February 9, 2012
posted by 8dot3 at 8:57 AM on February 9, 2012
I've been through a really similar situation.. Dating someone with BPD will absolutely, 100% make you feel crazy, even if you are perfectly fine. They are amazing at making you feel bad about yourself. It's a finely honed skill they've developed over years.
The first thing you need to do is remove her from your life completely. Don't read her messages or her emails or her im's and don't answer the phone if she calls.
I'm going to guess that probably you had these issues on some minor level before and that seeing them so starkly in her made them recognize them in yourself.
You seem to have enough self-awareness to recognize what you're doing though, so I'm confident that you'll pull through... Just stick with therapy, and I'm sure things will get better for you.
posted by empath at 9:06 AM on February 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
The first thing you need to do is remove her from your life completely. Don't read her messages or her emails or her im's and don't answer the phone if she calls.
I'm going to guess that probably you had these issues on some minor level before and that seeing them so starkly in her made them recognize them in yourself.
You seem to have enough self-awareness to recognize what you're doing though, so I'm confident that you'll pull through... Just stick with therapy, and I'm sure things will get better for you.
posted by empath at 9:06 AM on February 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
I agree with kalessin in that I think your emerging behaviors are due to adaptation to her behaviors. The tragedy of BPD is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy; sufferers are so convinced that everyone will eventually use them up and leave them that they end up driving everyone away.
When you think about it, a lot of behaviors that are adaptive for living with someone with BPD or BPD-like behaviors* are themselves similar to the signs of the disease. You want to avoid a confrontation, so you lie about actions or feelings that you think would set off the other person. You know that living with this person will limit your choices about how to spend your own time or money or agency, and so you start to be a bit more reckless in how you budget these when you do have a chance to control them. Living around someone who can go from sweet to raging seemingly instantly means that you have to switch from happy to defensive or placating often and suddenly, which starts giving your own moods a lot of volatility. You start to question and obsessively analyze the other person's behavior, as a defense (when they said goodbye this morning, they seemed a bit aloof--were they distracted or did I do something wrong that I have to answer for when I get home?), and eventually this can trickle outside the relationship or continue after the relationship is over.
It does go away, if you get help and remove yourself from any situations that encourage this behavior. This means that you have to cut off contact with your ex yesterday. Ignore her emails. Filter them out, set them to be irretrievably deleted.) Talk about it with your therapist. Stop drinking, at least for the short term. Spend time with your new girlfriend; reconnect with the friends that you lost contact with when you were dating your ex. You have to kind of recondition yourself now to "normal" adult social interactions and modes. But you'll get there.
* (like gauche, I don't want to diagnose, but I have a relative who I lived with for a while who exhibited many of the external signs and behaviors)
posted by kagredon at 9:30 AM on February 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
When you think about it, a lot of behaviors that are adaptive for living with someone with BPD or BPD-like behaviors* are themselves similar to the signs of the disease. You want to avoid a confrontation, so you lie about actions or feelings that you think would set off the other person. You know that living with this person will limit your choices about how to spend your own time or money or agency, and so you start to be a bit more reckless in how you budget these when you do have a chance to control them. Living around someone who can go from sweet to raging seemingly instantly means that you have to switch from happy to defensive or placating often and suddenly, which starts giving your own moods a lot of volatility. You start to question and obsessively analyze the other person's behavior, as a defense (when they said goodbye this morning, they seemed a bit aloof--were they distracted or did I do something wrong that I have to answer for when I get home?), and eventually this can trickle outside the relationship or continue after the relationship is over.
It does go away, if you get help and remove yourself from any situations that encourage this behavior. This means that you have to cut off contact with your ex yesterday. Ignore her emails. Filter them out, set them to be irretrievably deleted.) Talk about it with your therapist. Stop drinking, at least for the short term. Spend time with your new girlfriend; reconnect with the friends that you lost contact with when you were dating your ex. You have to kind of recondition yourself now to "normal" adult social interactions and modes. But you'll get there.
* (like gauche, I don't want to diagnose, but I have a relative who I lived with for a while who exhibited many of the external signs and behaviors)
posted by kagredon at 9:30 AM on February 9, 2012 [6 favorites]
The other thing about BPD is that if you are willing to put up with BPD behaviors enough so that you actually get yourself into a relationship with someone with BPD, chances are that you have had someone in your life with BPD before and you are already adapted to it.
It wasn't until I dated someone with BPD, for example, that I realized that my mom probably had it while i was growing up, which was a huge, almost life-changing revelation to me.
posted by empath at 9:42 AM on February 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
It wasn't until I dated someone with BPD, for example, that I realized that my mom probably had it while i was growing up, which was a huge, almost life-changing revelation to me.
posted by empath at 9:42 AM on February 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
I don't really care why you are suddenly doing all these things - you need to stop and I think you need professional help for that.
That said this seems significant to me in a couple of ways - The experience of trying to have a relationship with someone for whom, on a moment-by-moment basis, everything was up for grabs really challenged a lot of my assumptions about the world.
One, yes, this will mess with your head and I think, especially the minds of men who have a gendered idea about protecting the pure female. You may be still trying to find a way, despite knowing that she has a profound mental illness, to make her way of being normal so that you can believe it was all real and she really loved you and hearts and flowers and happy endings. And maybe at some point you wanted to save her and feel that you failed.
But none of that matters. You need to let this go and be who you should be now for yourself, your family, and the new woman. (And by the way, I would not date someone who had active, daily angst about an ex. Not clear if you do, but if someone who treated you so badly is more in your thoughts that someone who is with you now, someone who is not using you for her stunted and warped needs, you are being very unfair to the current gf.)
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:43 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
That said this seems significant to me in a couple of ways - The experience of trying to have a relationship with someone for whom, on a moment-by-moment basis, everything was up for grabs really challenged a lot of my assumptions about the world.
One, yes, this will mess with your head and I think, especially the minds of men who have a gendered idea about protecting the pure female. You may be still trying to find a way, despite knowing that she has a profound mental illness, to make her way of being normal so that you can believe it was all real and she really loved you and hearts and flowers and happy endings. And maybe at some point you wanted to save her and feel that you failed.
But none of that matters. You need to let this go and be who you should be now for yourself, your family, and the new woman. (And by the way, I would not date someone who had active, daily angst about an ex. Not clear if you do, but if someone who treated you so badly is more in your thoughts that someone who is with you now, someone who is not using you for her stunted and warped needs, you are being very unfair to the current gf.)
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:43 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
She was very into drugs - meth, weed, pretty much whatever she could get.
Meth makes people kuh-raaaaaaaaazy. I'd stop laser beam focusing on BPD and start realizing you had a crap relationship with a person in a crap stage in her life.
posted by ian1977 at 10:03 AM on February 9, 2012
Meth makes people kuh-raaaaaaaaazy. I'd stop laser beam focusing on BPD and start realizing you had a crap relationship with a person in a crap stage in her life.
posted by ian1977 at 10:03 AM on February 9, 2012
Lesser Shrew, mwt is a woman. Not that women can't also have white knight syndrome.
I am sorry you have gone through this mwt and I am glad to hear you are getting professional help and have the support of someone new. People with BPD definately have a way of making the "sane" person feel crazy and I am not surprised after a years you are still being triggered by her. Be strong, keep focusing on yourself and your future.
posted by saucysault at 10:13 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am sorry you have gone through this mwt and I am glad to hear you are getting professional help and have the support of someone new. People with BPD definately have a way of making the "sane" person feel crazy and I am not surprised after a years you are still being triggered by her. Be strong, keep focusing on yourself and your future.
posted by saucysault at 10:13 AM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
mwt = mtt. Sorry!
posted by saucysault at 10:14 AM on February 9, 2012
posted by saucysault at 10:14 AM on February 9, 2012
And I don't have BPD myself but there is someone in my life that has been diagnosed with BPD for many years and I react with them in ways I do not react with anyone else (hostility and outright rudeness); I attribute it to self-defense because this person is so toxic and has been so destructive in my life and the lives of people I love.
posted by saucysault at 10:17 AM on February 9, 2012
posted by saucysault at 10:17 AM on February 9, 2012
Couldn't agree less with the "you're sick because sick people are drawn to sick people, and you need help for addiction" thing. I'd be willing to guess that the sudden switch to drinking/smoking stems from self-medicating, but you were probably self-medicating for your toxic relationship, not your supposed "sickness"... and not all self-medication is necessarily bad, either. Now that you've broken up you have a great opportunity to turn things around in your life without convincing yourself that you are "sick" or "not okay".
I think you should do what you need to do to take care of yourself, including cutting off communication with your girlfriend, therapy, quitting smoking and/or drinking, and/or whatever else you want to do. Get lots of rest. Love yourself.
posted by vorfeed at 11:03 AM on February 9, 2012
I think you should do what you need to do to take care of yourself, including cutting off communication with your girlfriend, therapy, quitting smoking and/or drinking, and/or whatever else you want to do. Get lots of rest. Love yourself.
posted by vorfeed at 11:03 AM on February 9, 2012
Oops! But yes, women are perfectly capable of thinking it's their job to make everything alright for the pretty pretty princess. (in fact, we had a woman-woman question from someone who has gender role problems in an otherwise great relationship.)
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:27 AM on February 9, 2012
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:27 AM on February 9, 2012
When I was a young teenager, experiencing a lot of emotional pain and not knowing how to handle it, I read an article about self injury in, like, YM or something. It said that people often cut themselves because it helps them manage overwhelming emotional pain, and I thought, hey, maybe I'll give this a try. It sort of worked. I guess you could say self injury is contagious because I caught it from that article, and you caught it from your ex, but I think a more constructive way to look at it might be that when faced with pain we didn't know how to deal with, we tried mimicking people who seemed like they might be handling it better. I mean, cutting isn't a great way to handle your problems, but it is a way. Now that you know you need a tool like that, you can let your therapist help you to come up with a better one.
posted by milk white peacock at 1:32 PM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by milk white peacock at 1:32 PM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
IANAP but you may want to look into codependency, it doesn't sound like you are BPD.
posted by stratastar at 1:39 PM on February 9, 2012
posted by stratastar at 1:39 PM on February 9, 2012
in the past I'd handle it calmly or excuse myself if I think things are too much. Now it's a lot of aggression, ad hominem attacks, general instability
Taking the high road is HARD. It's also not generally satisfying. Of course aggression and instability are even less satisfying, but try telling yourself a Big Mac isn't satisfying when you haven't eaten all day and the boss was being a jerk. "Worthy 'n' Correct Salad, ma'am? With Unenjoyment Dressing?" "NO"
You're under stress because you had a disorienting mind-fucking experience in the very mouth of madness. And then a breakup. I don't know how much credence to give this as it's not possible to verify the identity/credibility of anyone online, but I did read a post by someone who said that she had had some serious hardship in life, including the death of a child, and that a relationship and breakup with a Cluster B was no less painful than the absolute worst things ever to happen to her. (If you think she might lack a sense of proportion, consider that perhaps the Cluster B showed up in her life after a tragic event, to "comfort" her.)
So you probably started getting ratty partly because you were under stress. Which you had discovered a variety of new ways to cope with.
posted by tel3path at 2:18 PM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Taking the high road is HARD. It's also not generally satisfying. Of course aggression and instability are even less satisfying, but try telling yourself a Big Mac isn't satisfying when you haven't eaten all day and the boss was being a jerk. "Worthy 'n' Correct Salad, ma'am? With Unenjoyment Dressing?" "NO"
You're under stress because you had a disorienting mind-fucking experience in the very mouth of madness. And then a breakup. I don't know how much credence to give this as it's not possible to verify the identity/credibility of anyone online, but I did read a post by someone who said that she had had some serious hardship in life, including the death of a child, and that a relationship and breakup with a Cluster B was no less painful than the absolute worst things ever to happen to her. (If you think she might lack a sense of proportion, consider that perhaps the Cluster B showed up in her life after a tragic event, to "comfort" her.)
So you probably started getting ratty partly because you were under stress. Which you had discovered a variety of new ways to cope with.
posted by tel3path at 2:18 PM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yep. Similar experience here. I was wondering, in fact, whether I was alone in this. Now I know I'm not. In my case the "contagion" of her way of doing things was exacerbated by (a) the fact that there was a kind of logic or reason to every choice or behaviour swing, however abrupt and by (b) the fact that i missed her and the other, wonderful qualities she had. Took a while to get over it; substance use was not involved, in fact I was pretty much teetotal, drug-free, gym-attending, healthy-eating in the aftermath.
posted by londongeezer at 2:18 PM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by londongeezer at 2:18 PM on February 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Definitely do talk to your therapist about this.
Cut out ALL contact with her. Don't read her texts, send her phone calls to never-never land. Stop letting her play mind games with you. And stop thinking about her. If you find yourself thinking about her, or her behaviors, then immediately do something else.
If you are in therapy, perhaps you're changing your relationship with your family and the dynamics are changing. Again, talk to your therapist and be aware.
posted by BlueHorse at 5:54 PM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Cut out ALL contact with her. Don't read her texts, send her phone calls to never-never land. Stop letting her play mind games with you. And stop thinking about her. If you find yourself thinking about her, or her behaviors, then immediately do something else.
If you are in therapy, perhaps you're changing your relationship with your family and the dynamics are changing. Again, talk to your therapist and be aware.
posted by BlueHorse at 5:54 PM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I dealt closely with a person who seems to have Borderline Personality Disorder, and I do believe it can "rub off on you" in a sense. Dealing with a BPD person kind of requires "fighting fire with fire." I totally agree with the person above who said that they behaved differently with a BPD person, they were sharper and nastier with that person (I can't remember exactly how they phrased it). But yeah, me too. Then I would have serious remorse, telling myself, "I can't believe I just talked to another person like that." But they really sort of bring it on themselves.
I've often thought that for borderline people, feeling assumes the role that thought performs in normal people. Feeling has the same authority for them that thought has for us. So their lives are built on an oceanic, violent miasma of emotions, not a rational structure of thought and decisions. You cannot deal with a BPD person logically, in my experience. If you're too close to them, you will get drawn into the miasma.
posted by jayder at 6:25 PM on February 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
I've often thought that for borderline people, feeling assumes the role that thought performs in normal people. Feeling has the same authority for them that thought has for us. So their lives are built on an oceanic, violent miasma of emotions, not a rational structure of thought and decisions. You cannot deal with a BPD person logically, in my experience. If you're too close to them, you will get drawn into the miasma.
posted by jayder at 6:25 PM on February 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
The thing is that the decisions you were making when you met her (moving in right away, etc.) don't sound consistent with the prudent, thoughtful self-image you're describing. So I question whether that's entirely accurate for you where you are now. Something to look at with your therapist.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:38 PM on February 9, 2012
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:38 PM on February 9, 2012
Sidhedevil makes an interesting point. Pre-Her, you were 100% rational, Post-Her, you are 100% unstable. This sounds like the classic "splitting" to me.
Most mental disorders feature gross exaggerations of common human behaviours.
posted by tel3path at 4:02 AM on February 10, 2012
Most mental disorders feature gross exaggerations of common human behaviours.
posted by tel3path at 4:02 AM on February 10, 2012
"You were sick before you met her. Here's the thing: sick people are drawn to sick people."
Mind control experiments actually show that your average person can be very susceptible to all kinds of suggestions. Most people are very unaware how their views and behavior can be warped in all sorts of ways by things like group psychology or the cult of personality, leading them to do some pretty extreme things. When someone is charismatic or knows how to draw people by pulling them into extreme degrees of emotion, they can attract and manipulate your average joe or jane who lacks any history of serious mental disorders.
So "sick" is not the terminology I'd use, personally. I think it's more helpful to think of most of us as humans who can easily go down a harmful path when we lack enough awareness.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 2:22 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mind control experiments actually show that your average person can be very susceptible to all kinds of suggestions. Most people are very unaware how their views and behavior can be warped in all sorts of ways by things like group psychology or the cult of personality, leading them to do some pretty extreme things. When someone is charismatic or knows how to draw people by pulling them into extreme degrees of emotion, they can attract and manipulate your average joe or jane who lacks any history of serious mental disorders.
So "sick" is not the terminology I'd use, personally. I think it's more helpful to think of most of us as humans who can easily go down a harmful path when we lack enough awareness.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 2:22 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]
I was going to say what tel3path said. One thing I found in the wake of my relationship with an ex with BPD was that I was so hyper-aware of those behaviors that I thought I was exhibiting some (and maybe was), but then realized that I thought other people around me were, too. The reality is that the behaviors associated with BPD (and likely other personality disorders, mood disorders, etc) are normal human emotions/behaviors taken to a whacked-out degree.
Most people get jealous at some point. Most people have a drink or two. Many people have gone on a shopping spree. Most people have occasionally indulged in black and white thinking.
I remember specifically my dad watching a football game and his team did something he thought was stupid and he pounded the pillow next to him and cursed. Is this the best reaction to a sporting event? No. Does my dad have mental illness/BPD because he did that? No. At the time, was I completely freaked out, heart racing, because I truly had those thoughts (that he did have X) cross my mind? You bet.
And, yeah, substance use/abuse is a huge lurking variable, here. Luckily I didn't get too far into that part of it (or, at least, was able to snap out of it), but you take care of that, things will seem different. Not that, objectively, you seem like you have substance abuse issues, per se, but if drinking or cigarettes or whatever is affecting your life or image of yourself, it's a problem that, if addressed, might relieve your worries.
Also, it took me more than a year to feel normal again.
posted by Pax at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
Most people get jealous at some point. Most people have a drink or two. Many people have gone on a shopping spree. Most people have occasionally indulged in black and white thinking.
I remember specifically my dad watching a football game and his team did something he thought was stupid and he pounded the pillow next to him and cursed. Is this the best reaction to a sporting event? No. Does my dad have mental illness/BPD because he did that? No. At the time, was I completely freaked out, heart racing, because I truly had those thoughts (that he did have X) cross my mind? You bet.
And, yeah, substance use/abuse is a huge lurking variable, here. Luckily I didn't get too far into that part of it (or, at least, was able to snap out of it), but you take care of that, things will seem different. Not that, objectively, you seem like you have substance abuse issues, per se, but if drinking or cigarettes or whatever is affecting your life or image of yourself, it's a problem that, if addressed, might relieve your worries.
Also, it took me more than a year to feel normal again.
posted by Pax at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
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posted by marriedtotacos at 7:04 AM on February 9, 2012 [1 favorite]