Love is one big grey area.

February 7, 2012 5:51 PM

Is it terrible to tell someone who's unhappy in a relationship that I have feelings for him, especially if it seems like he has feelings for me too?

I met this guy a couple of years ago through mutual friends. We were drawn to each other right away. We're both socially awkward (what a surprise). We both love horror movies, classic rock, traveling, and writing. I noticed him looking at me frequently after we first met. Whenever I caught him he'd smile and look away. Increasingly he'd find ways to talk to me whenever I was standing or sitting alone. If we accidentally touched each other while talking, neither of us flinched or said "sorry." It was the most comfortable sexual tension of my life. I saw him with the group like this about once a month and soon found myself having those butterflies in my stomach before we'd all go out.

At the time I met him, he had been in a relationship with another girl for two years. But he never talked about her in casual conversation. In fact, I had no idea he wasn't single until I looked him up on Facebook about four months into knowing him.

Soon his girlfriend started coming to parties too. From this, two things became clear: 1.) She is very sweet, and 2.) She is much more into him than he is into her. At one of the parties, for example, she started playing with his hair. He actually flinched, pulled her hand away unsmiling, and looked over at me to see if I had seen, causing her to ask him what his problem was. He is never unkind to her -- the hair thing is the cruelest I've ever seen him be -- but he is visibly distant from their relationship. She talks about the future, getting married and having kids with him, when she's there. He kind of just mumbles a half-hearted agreement to this. When she's not there, he sometimes talks to his friends (not just to me) about how he needs a change and has even mentioned that he wants to end the relationship. She has been talking about them moving in together for about a year and a half and, shocker, they have yet to do so.

I hadn't seen him since September, but a couple of weeks ago he texted me asking for professional advice, saying he got my number from a friend. Soon after, he also came to one of our get-togethers sans girlfriend. I was the first person he approached to talk. At first we started talking business, but in no time, he was asking me about the upcoming vacation plans I posted about on Facebook, about where I live and what my apartment is like, about what I see myself doing in the future, and if I have seen any good movies lately. He stayed with me until one of our other friends started talking to me and pushed him out. But of course, I noticed him continuing to look over my way and aligning his body towards me, as if that is where he really wanted to be. I wanted him to stay too.

By the end of the night, most of his close friends had left but he hadn't. When I mentioned in a group that I was thinking about leaving, he said he might as well too. I made my rounds and said goodbyes. He found some way to keep a conversation he was having with another girl going right until the moment I came to say goodbye to him, at which point he "casually" cut his conversation with her short and left with me. Nothing scandalous happened. We just walked out together to his car and talked and laughed some more.

This was the turning point for me. Now I find myself really wanting to say something to him about how I’m feeling. But…the girlfriend. At this point they have been together for four years. He’s obviously not happy there, but I also think that because she is so nice and because she likes him so much, he may be finding the relationship hard to break off. Plus: she lives very close to him, while I live an hour away on a good day. He had little experience with relationships before her and is approaching his 30's. And although I'm being gushy about him now, I generally play it cool and platonic with him, flirting only enough to keep the chemistry, because of his girlfriend.

In summary, I'm afraid to show interest because of the girlfriend, but it's possibly because of the girlfriend and because of what looks like lack of interest from me that nothing is happening here. I want that to change, because we only live once and I've managed to maintain a stupid crush on this guy for two years of my one life, even as I’ve dated other people. He seems to feel at least partly the same -- I mean, you don't gaze longingly and smile at someone you really just want to be platonic friends with. Do I wait for him to be an adult and man up to the task of dumping someone awesome whom he probably loves but is not in love with? Is there a way for me to tell or show him how I feel without being a giant homewrecker? I do sincerely believe that his girlfriend deserves someone who is equally crazy about her and realize that even though it would be devastating for her in the short term, it'd probably be a blessing in the long run.

Thanks for your help, MeFi.

posted by anonymous to human relations (50 answers total)

I would advise against pursuing this, not to avoid being a "homewrecker," but because any guy who treats his girlfriend like that is not somebody you want as your boyfriend. He's either pursuing you while in a relationship (which is crappy), or leading you on to stroke his own ego while in a relationship (which is also crappy). This guy is not worth your time, regardless of the chemistry you feel.
posted by vytae at 6:02 PM on February 7 [77 favorites]

^EXACTLY^

I'd say he needs to get his shit figured out on his own, first, but even then. He sounds a total chump.
posted by Chutzler at 6:03 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]

I think you step back, dial back the flirting and make sure you're not the excuse he uses to break up with his girlfriend.

Also you consider the lightly waving pink flags here by his behaviour, and tread carefully. Anytime you say to yourself that if the Guy you want to date has a girlfriend who would be happier without him, you're probably hitting shaky ground.
posted by anitanita at 6:07 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]

Here's what I think (based on having done something similar...when I was a teenager, not an adult). He wants to jump ship and go out with you, but he doesn't want to take any risks, so he's keeping his girlfriend on the hook until you're a sure thing. This is not nice behavior. It might not be a dealbreaker for you (honestly, everyone involved here sounds pretty young and you're all a bit awkward and thus late bloomers, so this behavior isn't as troubling as it might be). If you have other compelling evidence that he is a good, kind person, it might be reasonable to assume that he's all awkward and weird in the relationship and has trouble with break-ups (that was part of my problem) and would still be a good boyfriend. If there are other red flags about his character, don't take up with him.

He's not being very nice to his girlfriend at all. Dudes who mistreat the girls they are with in order to attract/impress other girls are no prizes, although they can stop or outgrow this behavior.
posted by Frowner at 6:09 PM on February 7 [6 favorites]

Just so you know, that girlfriend is giving you a look at your future if you decide to take on this prize.

Find someone who's actually available who doesn't treat people like crap.
posted by Space Kitty at 6:09 PM on February 7 [12 favorites]

I agree with everyone, he will not change his behavior with girlfriends in general, just because he is with you. The way he treats her now may be you in the future. Having been in your footsteps before, and having it end very poorly, I would highly advise against pursuing this.
posted by ruhroh at 6:12 PM on February 7

When she's not there, he sometimes talks to his friends (not just to me) about how he needs a change and has even mentioned that he wants to end the relationship.

Oh! He sounds like the ex I had who did eventually break up with that girl, and then when we were dating, he ended up falling in love with someone else (and out of love with me) about a week after telling me he loved me. Instead of breaking up with me since he realized he was no longer into me, he ended up being weird, distant, and manipulative until I realized that he was playing the same old games and broke it off myself. It was hellish.

So yeah, go for it! Just realize that when a 30-something guy lacks the ability to be honest about his feelings...he's not going to suddenly become honest about his feelings.

Although, unlike the woman he's dating now, at least you'll know what to look out for and so, like me, you can only waste a week or so of your time instead of years of your life.

Good luck!
posted by the young rope-rider at 6:14 PM on February 7 [7 favorites]

I would say something to a mutual friend like, "Guy is really nice. His girlfriend is lucky to have him. I wish I could meet a guy like him."
posted by AugustWest at 6:16 PM on February 7

Just so you know, that girlfriend is giving you a look at your future if you decide to take on this prize.

Pretty much this. Although, the way you describe this guy, he seems allright. I will say that, when guys don't declare themselves as taken, or "act single," it's very intentional, and says more about the person's maturity level than the relationship they're in. It's pretty murky and gets people into trouble. I know because I used to do it.

Hey listen, you have a wonderful way of describing things, but you're only describing chemistry. Sounds like he's being really flirty with you, and is in a relationship. Show interest if you want to, and pay the consequences, whatever they may be. There's nothing quite like a romantic burning between two really comfortable friends. You're getting a lot of positive indications and are taking your time, things are happening naturally.

But just know people aren't always consistent across all their relationships. I mean, "you only live once" is not a great excuse for jumping into a relationship with someone who is in a 4-year relationship. And I doubt that if you were to submit your love for him to him, that he would manage it all that well. What are you going to do, get physical? Force his hand?

The right person for you won't slip away, just want you to know that. Best of luck!
posted by phaedon at 6:18 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]

He is never unkind to her -- the hair thing is the cruelest I've ever seen him be -- but he is visibly distant from their relationship.

Stringing her along knowing that she wants a future he doesn't is unkind. Flirting with another woman is unkind. Telling your friends about how you want to end things with your girlfriend and not doing it and still bringing her around them is unkind.

This isn't a good boyfriend.

Also, with his interest toward you not clearly stated, be careful you are not reading too much into every gesture and word he makes. You could be seeing what you want to see and romanticizing the situation. You are crushing hard and that can end painfully.
posted by cecic at 6:18 PM on February 7 [20 favorites]

honestly, everyone involved here sounds pretty young and you're all a bit awkward and thus late bloomers, so this behavior isn't as troubling as it might be

This might be the case, but even then, you really don't want to be in a relationship with someone who demonstrably doesn't have the maturity/decency/whatever to end a relationship that isn't working for them. You (and for that matter, his current girlfriend) deserve better.
posted by thisjax at 6:22 PM on February 7

Entertaining flirtations while you are in a relationship is not fair to anyone.

He is a weak person who lacks the balls to man it up and just end something. Do you really want someone who doesn't have the guts and drive to be decisive? If she really wants kids and marriage he is seriously screwing her - biological clocks tick and if he is not interested then he needs to let her know.

A relationship that begins with this sort of drama is going to be saddled with baggage from the get go. Speaking from experience, respect yourself enough to not go there. He needs to deal with his shit before he can think of something new.

This is an opportunity for self discovery. Perhaps part of the attraction is because he is "safe" and you know nothing will easily happen.

You seem decent and possess morals and a conscious. You do not need him. You are a strong woman and deserve a strong man.
posted by cat_link at 6:24 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]

any guy who treats his girlfriend like that is not somebody you want as your boyfriend.

Quoted for truth.

He is telling you, clearly, who he is. He is a guy who "I had no idea he wasn't single until I looked him up on Facebook about four months into knowing him. " (This was not an accident. Guys who like/love their girlfriends mention them.)

But of course, now that you know about the relationship, he's actually talking about the girlfriend, "how he needs a change and has even mentioned that he wants to end the relationship." But he doesn't, you know, end the relationship.

As far as "at which point he "casually" cut his conversation with her short and left with me. Nothing scandalous happened. We just walked out together to his car" goes... if this were my boyfriend it would be "scandalous" enough, especially in light of how everybody you know (or maybe just two other people, I can't tell) has been getting an earful about how tired he is of this girlfriend he's got. Nobody at that party has any evidence about what went on after the two of you left together. If you think for a second that the rumor mill hasn't started churning, think again.

Getting along to "He’s obviously not happy there, but I also think that because she is so nice and because she likes him so much, he may be finding the relationship hard to break off." It may be her "niceness" that keeps him in the relationship. It may be his inexperience. It may be any number of things. Whatever is keeping him there, his comfort balance is set up so that being in the relationship hurts less than exiting, at least for now. Since you're comfortable guessing at what's keeping him in place, allow me to add my guess. He doesn't want to be single. He likes having sex, hot meals, someone to cuddle during movies, and someone to complain about when he needs to explain why he's "not happy." If you're content to take her place, that is, to play exactly the role she's playing in his narrative, by all means. Tell the guy you think he's a catch, and that if he should ever find himself single, you'd be waiting by the phone with bated breath.

I'd give it two weeks, tops, before you hear that special ring tone you pick out just for his number.

He is in fact, being monumentally unkind to her. The leaving a party alone with someone who is not his girlfriend really sticks in my craw, but it's actually not the worst thing he's done.

On preview, what everyone else said while I was busy composing this opus.
posted by bilabial at 6:29 PM on February 7 [21 favorites]

Advice I wish I had listened to when dealing with a guy (note: guy, not man) of this ilk:

When you see someone you're interested in behaving untowardly toward his current partner, the biggest mistake you can make is assuming that you are special, and different, and he will treat you differently than he treats her. Once, that girl had probably been special and different, too. And the girl before her.

Let this one pass, and look for the man who treats everyone the way you want the man you love to treat you.
posted by anonnymoose at 6:35 PM on February 7 [10 favorites]

Don't date someone who doesn't have the guts to make themselves happy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:38 PM on February 7 [33 favorites]

eh, life's messy, i'm not totally sure this guy's a dick, but you gotta realize you're at a big strategic disadvantage here - he's safe, he's got a girlfriend who's under his thumb, and he gets to flirt with you, and you can't complain about anything he does because, hey, he's not yours anyway - you have no right to expect anything. and of course he knows that you like him because you flirt with him. honestly if this were one of those rare times when jumping ship works out, i think he would have done the right thing and overtly *made a choice*. the way things are, he doesn't have to, and he's not. he sounds more immature than consciously cruel. probably not a great bet.
posted by facetious at 6:39 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]

Something else to consider: this guy has nothing tying him to his relationship other than the fact that he wants to be in it. She's not forcing him. He doesn't have children. Yet, instead of fixing things between them or moving on, he complains about her behind her back to other people and does nothing about it. Kind of loser behavior. Expect him to be like this in other areas of his life as well.
posted by devymetal at 6:42 PM on February 7 [15 favorites]

It is monumentally tempting to go along with this - and by all means, he may be the nicest individual in the entire world, and may never, ever treat you poorly ever and you may be soulmates - but nonetheless, it is not fair to anyone to get involved in this.

You show interest and then you walk away. If this is meant to be then he walks away and then you walk together. But if he's openly and actively entertaining this without actually doing anything about it, well, everyone's just going to wind up hurt - mostly you and her.
posted by mleigh at 6:44 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]

I disagree about the guy being a terrible person like everyone else seems to think. He's flirting with someone else, has chemistry, but hasn't done anything to act on it.

We have no idea what is really going on between them, whether they've discussed the possible break up or if there are factors complicating it. I've been in his position, unhappy with a relationship but not yet miserable enough to walk away. Sometimes it takes a crush on someone new to make you stop to think about why you're unhappy with your life and what needs to be done about that.. whether you're willing to take the steps to make yourself happy.

I've also been the girl who had the crush on a guy who was taken, yet I couldnt' resist indulging in mild flirtation and enjoying the chemistry that flowed between us. I never made a move, we never did anything inappropriate while he was in the realtionship.

However, yes, I did make it clear that if he were single... Even then I didn't outright say anything about what we might do if he were available, but made it clear that I was interested. If his circumstances changed. I also made it clear that he would have to be single first.

I wasn't willing to take the risk of *not* telling him.

Incidentally, a year or so after his relationship ended, we had a few good months together before wandering our own ways again. The chemistry was amazing, and we had some fun, but once we spent some alone time together we realized that an actual relationship wouldn't work.
posted by myShanon at 6:54 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]

1. I agree with everyone who has noted that he sounds like he has some issues.

2. I agree with those who have noted that you are really spending a lot of time looking for clues in very tiny behaviors of his, and the problem with that is that it means this isn't even a thing yet, and it's already drama-drama-drama.

A guy you are working this hard to read when you're not even dating and he has a girlfriend is a guy you probably wouldn't be able to read any better if the two of you were to get together. You'd spend all your time trying to figure out how every word and gesture meant he was feeling about you and the relationship. My honest advice? Look for something easier. Not easy, nothing is necessarily easy -- just easier than this.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 7:01 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]

No, no, no, no.

It's all bullshit. All of it. This has been going on for TWO YEARS. He's playing with her, you, and I bet you a bunch of other women, too. Don't feel badly for him. If he wanted to dump her, he would have by now. Really.

With some hints and winks, he has you believing this narrative that he's somehow trapped and only your chemistry can save him. Please don't fall for it.

Please, please step back and try to see this rationally. He's being incredibly lame if not downright disengenous.

RUN.
posted by jbenben at 7:05 PM on February 7 [12 favorites]

I don't think he's a terrible person. At best, I think he's a wimp. I have a sneaking suspicion that even if you flat-out told him you'd be with him if he were single, he wouldn't rise to the bait.
posted by sm1tten at 7:06 PM on February 7 [1 favorite]

I had no idea he wasn't single until I looked him up on Facebook about four months into knowing him.

Bad, bad, bad sign. I don't care how rocky your relationship is, if you are in one and you form a friendship with someone of the sex/gender you are attracted to, with whom you have chemistry: at the very least, you mention your partner. If you do not, that's a conscious choice. If, instead, you flirt with this new friend, that's a conscious choice. If, when this friend discovers that you are in a relationship, you confide in your friend that you're actually (sad eyes) not very happy in this relationship (comfort me, because my life is so complicated!), that is yet another conscious choice.

Do I wait for him to be an adult and man up to the task of dumping someone awesome

No, you forget about this entirely. Whatever appealing qualities he has, however nice he is, a man who is worthy of a relationship does not behave like this. He may someday mature emotionally into a man worthy of being in a relationship with, but right now he is not someone you should aspire to be involved with.

Pursue a relationship with someone who treats a partner well even at the end of the relationship, not just during the honeymoon period. It is unfair and unkind to stay with someone but hide the relationship and complain about it to friends (and to people you're flirting with). Don't settle for chemistry when the person behind it is willing to act like this.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:08 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]

Also, he's taken two years of your attention by cultivating your crush on him.

You can't get that time back, so don't give him a second more of your attention.

Look.

I think you described someone pretty calculating. I'm not sure about the opinions that want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but I do know how shitty it is to waste years of your life on a crush. Stop that. It's not worth it. You deserve so much more than this guy has to offer, whether he's being lame on purpose or by accident.

Move on:)
posted by jbenben at 7:13 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]

Brandon Blatcher: Don't date someone who doesn't have the guts to make themselves happy.

I have read relationship AskMe for years now and this is in the top 5 of truest things I have read yet. People like that are in the habit of making their unhappiness other people's fault. If you become the new GF, I have no doubt it will end up becoming yours.
posted by cairdeas at 7:31 PM on February 7 [15 favorites]

How do you think he got his current girlfriend? He's a cad.
posted by rhizome at 7:35 PM on February 7

Fap to him if you want but I suggest you direct your actual serious relationship attentions elsewhere.
posted by tumid dahlia at 7:47 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]

Hey listen, you have a wonderful way of describing things, but you're only describing chemistry.

I would go a step further even--you're describing your impressions of chemistry. If you go back and read your question, removing all of your interpretation, this guy hasn't made a single gesture that he's ready to leave his current partner and move on to you. You've spent two years (on and off) on this crush. Have you dated in the interim? Have you made an effort to date? Stop focusing on the unavailable guy; focus on yourself and finding someone out in the world who can be a real partner to you without all this baggage.
posted by gladly at 7:48 PM on February 7 [4 favorites]

I would go a step further even--you're describing your impressions of chemistry.

It's not even that - it's only sexual tension in the guise of chemistry.

You might be thinking "Hey, I'm an acid & you're a base, why don't we get together & make some beautiful fireworks?" when the actual result may just be boring salty water.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:25 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]

Just so you know, that girlfriend is giving you a look at your future if you decide to take on this prize.

FWIW I don't think this is necessarily true, or that he's a cad. In serial monogamy, there can be moments of err, overlap as you move from one relationship to the next. My problem wouldn't be that he's in a relationship and interested in someone else; it would be that he's in an unhappy relationship and apparently not motivated enough to deal with that. Like, do you really want to put your eggs in the basket of someone who's default relationship setting is inertia? Whining in public to other people that you want to break up and then doing nothing about it for an extended period of time is unattractive on more than one count, you know?
posted by DarlingBri at 8:32 PM on February 7 [13 favorites]

Some guys don't like to jump until they have someplace soft to land.
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:54 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]

Frowner: "he's keeping his girlfriend on the hook until you're a sure thing"

bonobothegreat: "Some guys don't like to jump until they have someplace soft to land."

This. Stop giving him 'free' attention and see if he is actually interested in you or just keeping you as an insurance policy. If he is seriously interested, he'll come looking for you. At the moment, he gets to string you along by throwing a few bones your way now and again. You're worth more than that.
posted by dg at 9:20 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]

If I have a dream about Ed Gein kicking back in a tub full of detached breasts I'm going to be so mad at this thread.

This would be a very different question if it had been going on for two months. Two years is much too long for an umarried guy with no children to be acting like and even saying he doesn't want to be in a relationship but not doing anything about it. From the first moment he seemed to be not so into you or more into somebody else, even if it was actually a normal passing thing, how would you manage to avoid not constantly worrying whether he was actually ready to move on and just wasn't planning on mentioning it for another two years? After all, you don't know what he's like when they're alone. Constant scanning can be fun when you're looking for hints of interest from somebody you're not involved with, but it's awful and enervating when you're looking for signs of disinterest, or worse, relative disinterest, in somebody you've been with for a while.
posted by Adventurer at 9:46 PM on February 7 [2 favorites]

Like, do you really want to put your eggs in the basket of someone who's default relationship setting is inertia? Whining in public to other people that you want to break up and then doing nothing about it for an extended period of time is unattractive on more than one count, you know?

I think what DarlingBri says here is so important. His actions are demonstrating that he has poor relationship skills and isn't particularly loyal.

Also, if this has been going on for two years, he's just not that into you. Yeah, he likes to "gaze longingly" at you or whatever, because that helps him have a foot out the door of his current relationship and stoke your crush which fuels his ego.

I know people who have been in stagnant relationships and met someone they were super excited about, ended the stagnant relationship as amicably as possible, waited for the dust to settle, and then pursued the person they were super excited about. That's the gold standard.

Whining about his relationship, acting like a jerk to his girlfriend, and being all flirtypants with you for two years (!) isn't a sign that you and he share an undying love; it's a sign that he's not very good at relationships.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:25 PM on February 7 [9 favorites]

My problem wouldn't be that he's in a relationship and interested in someone else.

The problem is that he is stringing both the OP and his own girlfriend along. This, I believe, is never acceptable. He should break it off with her AND THEN show interest in the OP. There's a big difference between being interested in someone and actually dropping hints/coming onto this someone whilst already being in a relationship.
posted by Trexsock at 11:52 PM on February 7

For the record, I think you are not misreading the situation and he is cultivating your interest and possibly hoping you'll initiate. I also think that the negative assessments of his motives and character are true.

But we all could be wrong about any of those things.

Here's what it's not possible to be wrong about: if he wants you enough and is enough of a man to be worth your while, he'll walk out of that relationship on his two feet and he'll plight his troth to you.

He's had TWO. YEARS. to do this and he hasn't done it.

If he's not getting his finger out, it isn't because you should be doing it for him.
posted by tel3path at 12:00 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]

I can see 2 situations that could explain why this has been going on for so long without the guy being a dick:

- his girlfriend is some kind of foreigner and would need to move abroad if they split, because of visa issues;

- OP is a man too and any change of situation would imply a change of displayed sexual orientation.

If these don't apply, then what the others above said.
posted by knz at 12:37 AM on February 8

No.

There's no indication he wants anything more than to flirt with you. He wants to seem available to you and he likes to touch you. That's not the same as being in love with you. If he were in love with you, he'd worry about how you perceive his character--meaning he'd man up and break up with his girlfriend. You shouldn't have to do that work for him. And he would ask you out on a proper date, instead of making sneaky excuses to spend time with you. It is a poor start to a relationship if you are already making excuses left and right for him. Try reading your question while pretending a friend of yours wrote it. I cringed when I read this: "At this point they have been together for four years. He’s obviously not happy there, but I also think that because she is so nice and because she likes him so much, he may be finding the relationship hard to break off." This girl is crazy in love with a man who doesn't even love her enough to let her go--and your sympathy is for him? Take off those rose colored glasses for a second and think objectively about the person you're falling for.

Maybe it's just taking him a long time to realize that he actually wants you--but if that's the case, it'll happen in its own time. Don't force things to happen unless you want to wince every time you remember how the two of you got together. If it wasn't something that would make you feel guilty, you wouldn't be asking this question. So don't do it for the sake of whatever relationship you want to have with him.
posted by millions of peaches at 2:37 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]

bonobothegreat said Some guys don't like to jump until they have someplace soft to land.

This is analogous to something someone once said to me: Some people are like a monkey swinging from tree to tree. They won't let go of one branch until they have a firm grip on the next. (paraphrased)

If he was a monkey with integrity and respect for the branches, he would let go of the one he doesn't want to hang on to anymore. It shouldn't have the burden of holding him up if he doesn't want to be there. If he hits the ground without finding another branch on the way down, he'll just have to deal with it, dust himself off and climb back up. At least the branch he let go of is free of his weight able to grow properly.

If you initiate something, you'll be that next branch, and there are plenty more branches in the forest.

Yeah, metaphor overload, I know - I'm just trying to say the same as what most others are saying, in a different way ;)
posted by Diag at 3:17 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]

You're wasting multiple years of your life on someone who's in a relationship. Cut that out.

And no, it's not okay to try to break up a relationship because you think you would be happier with one of the people in it and that would ultimately be best for anyone. You're already behaving badly ("flirting only enough to keep the chemistry"). Stop interacting with this person entirely.

Like everyone else said, if he wanted to leave his relationship, he would leave it. Either he's a coward and is waiting until he hooks up with you (or someone else) and knows you (or someone else) are a sure thing, in which case you don't want to be with someone like that, or he's enjoying flirting with you and the fact of your interest but doesn't intend to be with you, in which case you don't want to be with someone like that.

Look, you don't love this guy. You just know that you enjoy flirting and that you want to fuck. You need to step back and step away from this trainwreck of drama. Gather some perspective. Meet someone else. Someone else who is available and capable of being an adult.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:41 AM on February 8

I know this has been mentioned, but I also think it's important to consider that you could be wrong about his interest in you. How do you tell if someone is making googly eyes at you, or just looking at you? People often see what they want to see.

So then, what, you make a move on this guy who is in a four-year relationship and who, it turns out, isn't even interested in you or expressing interest in you? Then he tells people and you destroy your reputation. Even if he has been expressing interest, if he turns you down, that is the story that he tells and voila, you're a drama queen homewrecker. This can end badly for you in more ways than you not getting the guy.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:52 AM on February 8 [1 favorite]

Look, it sounds like he's interested in you, but either way I recommend you walk away. Nice people are capable of acting douchey, if they're afraid of change or not quite mature or a bunch of other possibilities. It might be a too good to leave, too bad to stay situation with his girlfriend. Either way, he kind of needs to be left alone to sort it out on his own, hopefully soon so that his sweet girlfriend can find someone deserving of her affection.

I would venture to say that if you pursue anything with him he is unlikely to acquire overnight the faculties to deal with relationships in a different manner to the way he's managing it with his current gf. Two years really is a long time to be flirting with you and being, if not outwardly cruel, then not particularly respectful to his girlfriend.

Good luck though, it's a bummer not to be able to follow through on a crush. Are you dating other people? I hope so.
posted by mooza at 6:19 AM on February 8 [1 favorite]

I wonder if it would make any difference in your feelings for him if you considered the way he behaves with his girlfriend when you're not there. He is probably much more loving and affectionate with her. If she was surprised by his reaction to her hair touching when you were there, he probably normally likes to have her touching his hair.

I mean, it's not like he is being distant with his girlfriend all the time and she's just not getting the picture. He's switching back and forth. They kiss. They have sex. They joke around. You only see and judge his behavior when he is around you trying to keep his options open. Consider that he is different, and much more into his girlfriend and not at all into you, when they're alone. That made a difference to me when I was in your position. I realized he was fairly manipulative and sort of two-faced, and not really the catch I'd originally imagined. Also, I believe in karma, and imagining him doing the same thing to me that he was doing to his current girlfriend (treating me lovingly in private while he was flirting with someone else when he was away from me) and knowing that I would in effect deserve such treatment made him a lot less attractive.

Also, your shared interests of horror movies, classic rock, traveling and writing are not that unusual. Maybe the next guy you date will share a love of action movies, Glee, skiing, and dogs (just making this up) with you. I think you can do better.
posted by onlyconnect at 7:49 AM on February 8 [6 favorites]

hi i'm that guy. sorry. i know i'm being a shit. i'm keeping you on the hook while i sort out the problems i'm having in my relationship.

just fwiw, it isn't helpful to know that you like me. honestly, it just makes my relationship that much harder to process. am i really dissatisfied with it? or am i dissatisfied with it because i think there might be something better out there? i'm actually more on the fence, because i'd typically just trust my gut and ignore my "grass is greener" feelings because we all know that's usually not the case. but now, i know that you're over there fertilizing and watering the grass...

please limit our contact. fade out and let me give my relationship the attention it deserves. you're distracting me and i'm allowing myself to be distracted and we both need to knock it off.
posted by this *is* my happy face at 8:44 AM on February 8 [7 favorites]

By the way, I tend to be pretty blunt about these types of situations, when they come up here, because I've been in one, handled it poorly, and got really hurt.

I was friends with someone, and thought he was cute and funny but knew he had a fiancee so I told myself nothing would ever happen, at least not while he was in a relationship. He talked about being unhappy in his relationship, and was flirtatious with me, so I started to think, "Maybe when he breaks up with her, we can be together." That eventually turned into, "When he breaks up with her, he'll want to be with me."

As our friendship progressed, he became more affectionate, flirtatious, and flattering. When he talked about how unhappy he was in his relationship, he said wished his girlfriend were more like me. I kept thinking, OK, so break up with her and you can be with me! In our conversations, I tried to remain neutral about the relationship stuff, tried to act like a supportive friend rather than someone who wanted to undermine his relationship. But I had feelings for him, and they were growing. He kept doing things that darted across the line and then back. I didn't push things further, but I didn't ever say, "Stop talking to me that way, stop with the physical affection, just stop: you're in a relationship and it isn't with me." (Not that I should have had to, but it would have been better for me if I had.) Finally, one evening we'd been drinking together and he started asking me if I was attracted to him. I brushed it off. He kept pushing, asking if I had feelings for him. Finally, I gave in--foolishly believing he'd say the same in return--I said, "Alright, yes. I'm attracted to you. I have feelings for you." And with that, it was like a switch flipped: all of a sudden he was indignant. He told all of our mutual friends that I'd basically thrown myself at him, and that he couldn't believe I'd think he'd betray his fiancee like that.

I was devastated, absolutely crushed. I thought I'd done the right thing by trying to be "just friends," and then by being honest about my feelings. I thought he felt the same way, I thought he was struggling to figure out how to end his relationship. Nope. I was foolish and got burned. He was disrespectful to his fiancee and to me by acting the way he did. I couldn't see that through my infatuation.

I don't know whether your friend is interested in jumping from his current relationship to a relationship with you, or whether he's comfortable where he is and just likes the flirtation and attention. I can say, however, that in my experience, as well as observations of friends in similar situations: this kind of behavior from a person in a relationship is bad, bad news.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:30 AM on February 8 [7 favorites]

I would like to third Meg_Murry and J. Wilson in warning you that you could be walking into a trap by saying anything to him (apart from the trap of possibly winding up in a relationship with him, I mean).

I suspected a guy of doing this towards me, but what he did was, not mention his gf, but ANVILICIOUSLY MENTION his GF in ways that were pointed, but OH WE HAVE BEDLINEN IN EXACTLY THAT COLOUR difficult to raise as an issue. What was I supposed to say? "Why do you keep mentioning your GF in these strangely contrived ways, when you never used to talk about her like that?" That would so obviously have been walking into OH HEAVENS TO BETSY TEL3PATH, YOU DO SEEM TO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH MY GF DON'T YOU territory.

I didn't know how to take this bait so I ignored it and continued treating him like a friend. He found himself another woman who would take the bait, and launched into a full-on public campaign to pursue this woman, begging her on Facebook to go out with him while portraying his gf in the most mean-spirited and humiliating (yet still calculated to load the responsibility onto the message recipient) ways. He passive-aggressively friend-dumped me early in the process, for which I was most grateful. I don't know if he did end up dating this other woman, or if he ever broke up with his gf.

Some months later he tried to get back in touch with me as if we were good ole buddies. I ignored him.
posted by tel3path at 11:06 AM on February 8 [2 favorites]

this *is* my happy face: "hi i'm that guy."

Seriously?
posted by dg at 1:41 PM on February 8

not literally. but i'm the guy in a very similar situation. but in my situation, i told my version of the op that i had the feelings. i suppose i'm to blame for now knowing that my feelings are reciprocated. we agreed to be respectful of the fact that i'm in a relationship, but that hasn't made it easier. the only thing that makes this whole situation easier is having less contact with my version of the op.
posted by this *is* my happy face at 2:31 PM on February 8

i don't disagree with everything that's already said, only no one has mentioned the first thing that jumped into my mind, which was . . . you seem to be making an awful lot of the fact that this man . . . looks at you? didn't want his gf to touch his hair one time? you guys both like classic rock and writing? seriously?

one of my best friends quickly jumps to believing that people are flirting with her or are into her when there seems to be little basis to do so. are you one of these people? reason through your inclinations to believe people are secretly harboring feelings for you accordingly.
posted by anthropomorphic at 6:57 PM on February 8

Hey, I was you, too. Except I was already in a relationship. I confessed my feelings, he said he felt the same, I ended my relationship, and then...nothing. He hemmed, hawed, gnashed his teeth, but in the end, he wouldn't leave her. Actually, in the end, he married her.

onlyconnect has it: You don't know anything about his relationship - he's been with this woman for four years, and you're making gigantic assumptions about them based on a couple of observations. Stay away for your own protection.
posted by orangejenny at 7:16 PM on February 9 [1 favorite]