scary gaijin?
January 14, 2012 8:44 AM Subscribe
In watching Azumanga Daioh (anime) and in comments here and around the web, there seems to be a trope or expectation or whatever you would call it that Japanese people are actually afraid of foreigners.
Is that accurate? If so, why is that?
I think the gag in Azumanga is that they're afraid to be tested on their English abilities, rather than being afraid of foreigners.
As an aside, Yukari-sensei mentions something like: "Since I'm an English teacher, I'll get married and be wealthy" in one of the episodes. Much to the annoyance of her also-still-single PE teacher friend.
Anyway, I'd go with that Japanese may *know* a lot of 'reading' English [hence Japanglish], but may not be confident at all engaging with a foreigner in real-life conversation.
posted by Chorus at 9:08 AM on January 14, 2012
As an aside, Yukari-sensei mentions something like: "Since I'm an English teacher, I'll get married and be wealthy" in one of the episodes. Much to the annoyance of her also-still-single PE teacher friend.
Anyway, I'd go with that Japanese may *know* a lot of 'reading' English [hence Japanglish], but may not be confident at all engaging with a foreigner in real-life conversation.
posted by Chorus at 9:08 AM on January 14, 2012
Also, this guy's whole channel is really informative, especially this recent one on English usage in Japan -> Here [youtube]
Worth a watch!
posted by Chorus at 9:10 AM on January 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Worth a watch!
posted by Chorus at 9:10 AM on January 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Once when I was in Japan (Nagasaki, a medium-sized city without a lot of foreigners), I walked into a fast-food restaurant. The girl at the counter was obviously in her first or second day on the job and still being trained, and the moment I walked in, she looked terrified. I think that was first-day jitters and worry that I wouldn't be able to communicate with her; once she realized that I spoke Japanese, she calmed down quite a bit.
I think when people are "Oh no, a foreigner!" it's more likely to be a concern about the language barrier than a concern that the foreigner is going to do something awful.
In Japan there are a large group of people, recent college grads to mid-twenties, who come to Japan as English teachers. They have a (somewhat earned) reputation of being loud, rowdy, culturally insensitive, and pretty heavy drinkers. And there have been incidents of assholeishness by foreigners, like the Halloween Train in Tokyo, and also things like the rape of a 12-year-old Okinawa girl by servicemen at Camp Hansen.
There's also a perception that there is a lot of gun crime in America, caused by the widespread distribution of American action movies, the very strict gun laws in Japan by comparison to the US's very lenient ones, and the fact that compared to Japan there is a lot of gun crime in America.
So, having said all that, the girl at the fast-food counter is the only time in a year of living in Japan that anyone ever expressed anything like fear towards me -- in the main, people were extremely friendly and polite, though I think that might have been different if I wasn't a 19-year-old white girl.
posted by Jeanne at 9:18 AM on January 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think when people are "Oh no, a foreigner!" it's more likely to be a concern about the language barrier than a concern that the foreigner is going to do something awful.
In Japan there are a large group of people, recent college grads to mid-twenties, who come to Japan as English teachers. They have a (somewhat earned) reputation of being loud, rowdy, culturally insensitive, and pretty heavy drinkers. And there have been incidents of assholeishness by foreigners, like the Halloween Train in Tokyo, and also things like the rape of a 12-year-old Okinawa girl by servicemen at Camp Hansen.
There's also a perception that there is a lot of gun crime in America, caused by the widespread distribution of American action movies, the very strict gun laws in Japan by comparison to the US's very lenient ones, and the fact that compared to Japan there is a lot of gun crime in America.
So, having said all that, the girl at the fast-food counter is the only time in a year of living in Japan that anyone ever expressed anything like fear towards me -- in the main, people were extremely friendly and polite, though I think that might have been different if I wasn't a 19-year-old white girl.
posted by Jeanne at 9:18 AM on January 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I think Jeanne said it well. My impression is that many people are worried that they'll be expected to understand or speak English, when most haven't been well prepared for it by their school systems; some people are worried that foreigners will be disruptive and behave in surprising, rude, or outlandish (ha) ways, which will then be difficult to deal with due to language barriers; some people associate Americans in general and Chinese people, black people, etc. with gun violence/organized crime/what have you; and some people, just like people in most other countries, erroneously believe that foreign residents are more likely to commit crimes in general.
That said, when we traveled as a couple in Japan, nobody ever avoided us or avoided sitting next to us or anything (though I'm pretty sure some of the ryokan maids were a bit nervous). People helped us when we took out maps on the streets and so on. Again, maybe it was because of our appearance, but a lot of people claim the fear and avoidance happens to everyone, so ... hmm ...
posted by wintersweet at 10:17 AM on January 14, 2012
That said, when we traveled as a couple in Japan, nobody ever avoided us or avoided sitting next to us or anything (though I'm pretty sure some of the ryokan maids were a bit nervous). People helped us when we took out maps on the streets and so on. Again, maybe it was because of our appearance, but a lot of people claim the fear and avoidance happens to everyone, so ... hmm ...
posted by wintersweet at 10:17 AM on January 14, 2012
Jeanne says it well. Though possibly because I'm a white guy in my 30's I get treated a little less friendly.
Quite a few people, especially service people are deathly afraid of having to negotiate the complex lingual and cultural minefield of talking to a foreigner. Making a language or culture gaff is deeply embarrassing, and since Japan is an incredibly homogeneous country, most people don't have any experience in dealing with foreigners. I have a friend who works in a Ginza store. She's the only employee there who's been out of the country for even a day (She's spent 3 weeks in the US.) So when a foreigner of any kind comes to the store all the other staff flees too the back leaving my friend to deal with them. (On the upside this means that, given the nature of the store, she has met a large number of famous people.)
So yeah, the "Oh shit, I'm going to have to actually speak English" look is pretty common. I think this is also why speaking even a little bit of Japanese gets one a lot of credit.
On the other hand there is quite a bit of downright racism. While (only recently) illegal a lot of places will not rent to foreign born people, even if they've become citizens. I've been turned away from bars, restaurants, and other businesses simply because I'm a white. Once, outside a train station, I was grabbed by an old woman who said some impossibly insulting things and told to leave the country. Another time on a train with reserved seats the older gentleman sitting next to me demanded a different seat because this one was "too stinky" with a look straight at me. These guys are the exceptions, and it's almost exclusively older people, but yeah, it's there.
Racism is a sort of fear, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.
posted by Ookseer at 10:45 AM on January 14, 2012
Quite a few people, especially service people are deathly afraid of having to negotiate the complex lingual and cultural minefield of talking to a foreigner. Making a language or culture gaff is deeply embarrassing, and since Japan is an incredibly homogeneous country, most people don't have any experience in dealing with foreigners. I have a friend who works in a Ginza store. She's the only employee there who's been out of the country for even a day (She's spent 3 weeks in the US.) So when a foreigner of any kind comes to the store all the other staff flees too the back leaving my friend to deal with them. (On the upside this means that, given the nature of the store, she has met a large number of famous people.)
So yeah, the "Oh shit, I'm going to have to actually speak English" look is pretty common. I think this is also why speaking even a little bit of Japanese gets one a lot of credit.
On the other hand there is quite a bit of downright racism. While (only recently) illegal a lot of places will not rent to foreign born people, even if they've become citizens. I've been turned away from bars, restaurants, and other businesses simply because I'm a white. Once, outside a train station, I was grabbed by an old woman who said some impossibly insulting things and told to leave the country. Another time on a train with reserved seats the older gentleman sitting next to me demanded a different seat because this one was "too stinky" with a look straight at me. These guys are the exceptions, and it's almost exclusively older people, but yeah, it's there.
Racism is a sort of fear, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.
posted by Ookseer at 10:45 AM on January 14, 2012
My Indian-American friend told me that she went to a pool in Japan at which there were only native Japanese people and everyone -- everyone -- got out when she got in. She definitely felt like it was some sort of racism.
That said, she expressly said she didn't feel like that experience made her feel that ALL people everywhere in Japan would behave that way, but she was really shaken.
posted by sweetkid at 11:49 AM on January 14, 2012
That said, she expressly said she didn't feel like that experience made her feel that ALL people everywhere in Japan would behave that way, but she was really shaken.
posted by sweetkid at 11:49 AM on January 14, 2012
I meant to say "a fear that came out of racism," not just racism.
posted by sweetkid at 11:50 AM on January 14, 2012
posted by sweetkid at 11:50 AM on January 14, 2012
I lived in Japan many years ago and experienced a certain amount of what's being discussed here; on the other hand, I really don't think it's any greater, or different in nature, from what you get in any part of the world where there's hardly any contact with foreigners, including parts of the U.S.
posted by languagehat at 11:59 AM on January 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 11:59 AM on January 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I've been to Japan several times and speak passable Japanese. In my experience, the fear of foreigners has a lot less to do with language and more to do with manners and etiquette.
Japanese culture values harmony, and foreigners who don't know the hidden rules or expectations of behavior often disrupt that harmony. In Japan, foreigners are often viewed as an imposition or burden.
I've been to many local-only bars and restaurants in Japan where upon entry was denied and shooed away, but instantly welcomed back after apologizing appropriately and backing away. Being welcomed always had a lot less to do with language and more to do with demonstrating that I knew "the rules" and was going to follow them.
Reminds me of my Japanese textbook -- all of the story situations involved a Mr. Smith who was always spilling tea on the pretty cushion...
posted by cior at 12:31 PM on January 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Japanese culture values harmony, and foreigners who don't know the hidden rules or expectations of behavior often disrupt that harmony. In Japan, foreigners are often viewed as an imposition or burden.
I've been to many local-only bars and restaurants in Japan where upon entry was denied and shooed away, but instantly welcomed back after apologizing appropriately and backing away. Being welcomed always had a lot less to do with language and more to do with demonstrating that I knew "the rules" and was going to follow them.
Reminds me of my Japanese textbook -- all of the story situations involved a Mr. Smith who was always spilling tea on the pretty cushion...
posted by cior at 12:31 PM on January 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
As an ABJ, I think Jeanne explains it the best. Unless someone's profession requires them to speak English all the time, most (not all) Japanese people are extremely "oh my god, what do I do" about communicating with foreigners.
In certain towns or areas formerly or currently populated by rowdy foreigners, there is definitely explicit mistrust. This might also stem from an oft-thrown around statistic (that I can't confirm, and meet with some amount of skepticism) that the majority of crimes these days are committed by foreigners. That said, I hear more about Japanese murders than foreign ones, so I believe the crime is often theft.
Also, in Japan the code of conduct is pretty expanse, to say the least. While people in cities can be fairly forgiving of a foreigner accidentally being rude or doing things wrong, it's not the same everywhere else.
Lastly, sweetkid, I'm really horrified and ashamed to hear that anecdote... Japan is by no means exempt from racism, but still. It's just awful to hear... The only two things I can conceive that has naught to do with race are that 1) It's very strict that you must shower on the premises before you enter a pool or go into a public bath. People will insist on this or else be visibly disgusted. (Someone I knew who did not shower in front of everyone before getting into the baths was chased out and into a shower.) 2) Tattoos are considered a mark of crime or a "wild life" by some people. If someone is tattooed, they may get some glares and stares :/
posted by xiadagio at 11:57 PM on January 14, 2012
In certain towns or areas formerly or currently populated by rowdy foreigners, there is definitely explicit mistrust. This might also stem from an oft-thrown around statistic (that I can't confirm, and meet with some amount of skepticism) that the majority of crimes these days are committed by foreigners. That said, I hear more about Japanese murders than foreign ones, so I believe the crime is often theft.
Also, in Japan the code of conduct is pretty expanse, to say the least. While people in cities can be fairly forgiving of a foreigner accidentally being rude or doing things wrong, it's not the same everywhere else.
Lastly, sweetkid, I'm really horrified and ashamed to hear that anecdote... Japan is by no means exempt from racism, but still. It's just awful to hear... The only two things I can conceive that has naught to do with race are that 1) It's very strict that you must shower on the premises before you enter a pool or go into a public bath. People will insist on this or else be visibly disgusted. (Someone I knew who did not shower in front of everyone before getting into the baths was chased out and into a shower.) 2) Tattoos are considered a mark of crime or a "wild life" by some people. If someone is tattooed, they may get some glares and stares :/
posted by xiadagio at 11:57 PM on January 14, 2012
Xiadagio has it right about tattoos and showering before baths (or onsen, sento, etc.)
Gym membership is also an issue if you have a tattoo of any size (at least in many cities).
Not true about crime, though. The rate of crimes committed by foreigners is a) falling, and b) skewed due to visa-related issues (Japanese cannot commit these). Meanwhile, despite a falling population, the Japanese crime rate is climbing.
posted by Prof Iterole at 2:16 AM on January 15, 2012
Gym membership is also an issue if you have a tattoo of any size (at least in many cities).
Not true about crime, though. The rate of crimes committed by foreigners is a) falling, and b) skewed due to visa-related issues (Japanese cannot commit these). Meanwhile, despite a falling population, the Japanese crime rate is climbing.
posted by Prof Iterole at 2:16 AM on January 15, 2012
To go back to the OP though, reaction varies wildly, but there seems to be less of all kinds of reaction that back in the 90s.
As others have already mentioned, a willingness to try the language, and manners / etiquette matter a lot.
And don't get me started about Mr. bloody Smith, Cior....
posted by Prof Iterole at 2:20 AM on January 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
As others have already mentioned, a willingness to try the language, and manners / etiquette matter a lot.
And don't get me started about Mr. bloody Smith, Cior....
posted by Prof Iterole at 2:20 AM on January 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
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I do know that in certain communities in Japan they would really rather prefer it if there were only Japanese people there. My best friend was there to teach English a couple of years ago. She was in a smaller fishing town and she talked about how people would protest, asking for foreigners to be deported back to their home countries.
It's probably a really complicated issue that isn't just based in fear.
posted by royalsong at 8:58 AM on January 14, 2012