This video of kittens leaves me sobbing.
January 8, 2012 2:01 PM Subscribe
Is a numb, detached state a possible component of PTSD?
Context: History of childhood abuse (physical, neglect). In therapy now.
I've had about ten years' worth of drama (dramatic estrangement from family, unfortunate romantic stuff) stuffed into the last eight months. I've been sort of patting myself on the back -- as has my therapist -- for dealing with this stuff 9/10 of the time in a thoughtful, measured, way. Truth be, it hasn't been that hard to do. But then I've had thing, upon thing, upon thing -- nothing tragic, but enough to really rock my world in an un-good way -- to sort of keep me going.
Now, all the drama is done. Hooray. But -- now the feelings are flooding in. I feel like I am very sad about everything all at once. My thoughts have taken a very dark tone. Not that I'm thinking about self-harm, but more like, 'Kristen Dunst was right the world is evil and no one will miss it' kind of thoughts.
My therapist is very wise but very non-interventionist. I would like some tips when my head gets all Lars Von Triers. Also, YANMT BUT: does this ring true with a PTSD experience?
Context: History of childhood abuse (physical, neglect). In therapy now.
I've had about ten years' worth of drama (dramatic estrangement from family, unfortunate romantic stuff) stuffed into the last eight months. I've been sort of patting myself on the back -- as has my therapist -- for dealing with this stuff 9/10 of the time in a thoughtful, measured, way. Truth be, it hasn't been that hard to do. But then I've had thing, upon thing, upon thing -- nothing tragic, but enough to really rock my world in an un-good way -- to sort of keep me going.
Now, all the drama is done. Hooray. But -- now the feelings are flooding in. I feel like I am very sad about everything all at once. My thoughts have taken a very dark tone. Not that I'm thinking about self-harm, but more like, 'Kristen Dunst was right the world is evil and no one will miss it' kind of thoughts.
My therapist is very wise but very non-interventionist. I would like some tips when my head gets all Lars Von Triers. Also, YANMT BUT: does this ring true with a PTSD experience?
See "Diagnostic Criteria" here, including:
C: Persistent avoidance and emotional numbing
This involves a sufficient level of:
avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma, such as certain thoughts or feelings, or talking about the event(s);
avoidance of behaviors, places, or people that might lead to distressing memories;
inability to recall major parts of the trauma(s), or decreased involvement in significant life activities;
decreased capacity (down to complete inability) to feel certain feelings;
an expectation that one's future will be somehow constrained in ways not normal to other people.
Non-interventionist is nice for some things, but isn't one of the current popular protocols for treatment of PTSS and PTSD. You may need to pursue diagnosis and treatment for this specifically.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:12 PM on January 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
C: Persistent avoidance and emotional numbing
This involves a sufficient level of:
avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma, such as certain thoughts or feelings, or talking about the event(s);
avoidance of behaviors, places, or people that might lead to distressing memories;
inability to recall major parts of the trauma(s), or decreased involvement in significant life activities;
decreased capacity (down to complete inability) to feel certain feelings;
an expectation that one's future will be somehow constrained in ways not normal to other people.
Non-interventionist is nice for some things, but isn't one of the current popular protocols for treatment of PTSS and PTSD. You may need to pursue diagnosis and treatment for this specifically.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:12 PM on January 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
It is a textbook symptom. Actually, both issues you describe, "numbing" and "flooding", are experiences many people with PTSD report. My sympathies and very best to you in your work to find a way through.
If you want to read a textbook about PTSD, this one is considered a gold standard. It's a bit out of date now, though.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:13 PM on January 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you want to read a textbook about PTSD, this one is considered a gold standard. It's a bit out of date now, though.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:13 PM on January 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I would say that while the temptation is to romanticize the sort of catastrophic depressive outlook in that movie, try to consider it as an artwork inspired by that state, but made from outside it. As in, if Lars Von Trier really felt that was the ultimate truth behind life, would he have bothered to (or even been able to) make the movie at all?
People go to far out places, often very dark places, and then they come back and tell us what they saw or felt there. And the work speaks quite sincerely to those who still occupy those places, but I always try to remember that it takes a very high-functioning individual to sustain that kind of effort and intensity in an artistic venture. The kind of artists who attempt to stay out there and broadcast directly from the void don't tend to last very long, or eventually they make their way back to us.
What I liked about Dunst's character is that while she was unable to cope in a world that was "function" by modern human standards, she was able to rise to the occasion and function on a basic human level when it came to helping her family cope with impending catastrophe. She didn't abandon them, even though she had no real psychological incentive NOT to, especially since she'd been abandoned by just about everyone who supposedly loved or valued her -- including her sister, who left her being when she tried to escape to the village in the golf cart.
In my own experience, these types of thoughts you're describing are a way of trying to convince myself that it ultimately doesn't matter whether I get better or not, that the earth as it is isn't worth surviving in. And you know, granted. But as they say out on the farm, when your truck breaks down you can get out and push, or you can sit and cry for ten minutes and THEN get out and push. So it's natural to indulge in these feelings, but try to remember that they are just part of a process which actually ultimately leads to your accepting your role in the world and doing your best to make it tenable, if only for your own dear sake.
posted by hermitosis at 2:16 PM on January 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
People go to far out places, often very dark places, and then they come back and tell us what they saw or felt there. And the work speaks quite sincerely to those who still occupy those places, but I always try to remember that it takes a very high-functioning individual to sustain that kind of effort and intensity in an artistic venture. The kind of artists who attempt to stay out there and broadcast directly from the void don't tend to last very long, or eventually they make their way back to us.
What I liked about Dunst's character is that while she was unable to cope in a world that was "function" by modern human standards, she was able to rise to the occasion and function on a basic human level when it came to helping her family cope with impending catastrophe. She didn't abandon them, even though she had no real psychological incentive NOT to, especially since she'd been abandoned by just about everyone who supposedly loved or valued her -- including her sister, who left her being when she tried to escape to the village in the golf cart.
In my own experience, these types of thoughts you're describing are a way of trying to convince myself that it ultimately doesn't matter whether I get better or not, that the earth as it is isn't worth surviving in. And you know, granted. But as they say out on the farm, when your truck breaks down you can get out and push, or you can sit and cry for ten minutes and THEN get out and push. So it's natural to indulge in these feelings, but try to remember that they are just part of a process which actually ultimately leads to your accepting your role in the world and doing your best to make it tenable, if only for your own dear sake.
posted by hermitosis at 2:16 PM on January 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Sorry, should have been:
she was unable to cope in a world that was "functional" by modern human standards
posted by hermitosis at 2:17 PM on January 8, 2012
she was unable to cope in a world that was "functional" by modern human standards
posted by hermitosis at 2:17 PM on January 8, 2012
Yes, and it's one of the things that made my therapist start pushing a PTSD diagnosis, in fact.
Try to be kind to yourself. Remember that having a certain thought doesn't really mean anything about who you are or what you're worth - it's just a thought, and it's OK to have it; there's a decent chance it's actually pretty healthy to have it, and to express it (at least in a safe environment like your therapist's office or in your journal.) Same goes with feelings (according to my therapist; I still work on this part.)
And remember (this is hard for me too) that feeling a certain thing now or thinking a certain thing or in a certain way at the moment doesn't mean that this is how things will feel or how you'll think forever. Being numb or overcome with sadness is almost certainly a transient state; you're doing OK if you're aware of it and are doing things to try and correct for it (that doesn't just mean "try to feel better," it means "asking for help" and "taking today off work to try and reduce stress" and "drinking a glass of water because that's good for you even though you feel like crap" and "choosing to give your credit card to a friend or putting it in a lockbox so you won't do something stupid while you feel like this" and "calling your doctor when you're feeling like hurting yourself.")
There is, in short, no obligation to be perfect or normal. Just to stay in the game, as it were.
Or so my therapists keep telling me. :)
posted by Fee Phi Faux Phumb I Smell t'Socks o' a Puppetman! at 2:21 PM on January 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Try to be kind to yourself. Remember that having a certain thought doesn't really mean anything about who you are or what you're worth - it's just a thought, and it's OK to have it; there's a decent chance it's actually pretty healthy to have it, and to express it (at least in a safe environment like your therapist's office or in your journal.) Same goes with feelings (according to my therapist; I still work on this part.)
And remember (this is hard for me too) that feeling a certain thing now or thinking a certain thing or in a certain way at the moment doesn't mean that this is how things will feel or how you'll think forever. Being numb or overcome with sadness is almost certainly a transient state; you're doing OK if you're aware of it and are doing things to try and correct for it (that doesn't just mean "try to feel better," it means "asking for help" and "taking today off work to try and reduce stress" and "drinking a glass of water because that's good for you even though you feel like crap" and "choosing to give your credit card to a friend or putting it in a lockbox so you won't do something stupid while you feel like this" and "calling your doctor when you're feeling like hurting yourself.")
There is, in short, no obligation to be perfect or normal. Just to stay in the game, as it were.
Or so my therapists keep telling me. :)
posted by Fee Phi Faux Phumb I Smell t'Socks o' a Puppetman! at 2:21 PM on January 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, your description of feeling sad about everything all at once (especially this) and dark thoughts and numbness all correlate to my most recent bout of depression, which also followed some unpleasant life stuff. I think it's par for the course unfortunately. It's like a tax your unconscious has to pay to allow you to function for the other 9/10ths of the time, as you describe - all I can say is that it passes, eventually.
As for tips and tricks, I tended to find it helped to talk everything through with my other half - even just being able to say at that immediate moment that I was feeling really sad or out of sorts, just registering it with someone else, helped. So hopefully you have a partner or close friend or member of the family, or your therapist (non-interventionist though they may be) who can validate your feelings in a non-judgemental way when they arise.
On preview, Fee Phi Faux Phumb has it - this, too, will pass.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 2:25 PM on January 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
As for tips and tricks, I tended to find it helped to talk everything through with my other half - even just being able to say at that immediate moment that I was feeling really sad or out of sorts, just registering it with someone else, helped. So hopefully you have a partner or close friend or member of the family, or your therapist (non-interventionist though they may be) who can validate your feelings in a non-judgemental way when they arise.
On preview, Fee Phi Faux Phumb has it - this, too, will pass.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 2:25 PM on January 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
This may sound funny, but you don't have to feel everything intensely. Not everybody does. Conversely, some people tend to feel too strongly about things and so consciously dull their responses as a method of self-control.
Sometimes, people intentionally delay feeling until the time is right. Is that approach wrong? The right question to ask may instead be, "Does this work for me?"
It's okay to feel later on. If you're worried, just talk to people. If talking to someone about something makes you feel better, keep doing it. Sometimes just speaking about it helps. Sometimes the perspective of someone else who cares about you just helps you make sense of it in a way that doesn't lean too heavily on your on neuroses.
Good friends make life easier.
posted by Strudel at 6:36 PM on January 8, 2012
Sometimes, people intentionally delay feeling until the time is right. Is that approach wrong? The right question to ask may instead be, "Does this work for me?"
It's okay to feel later on. If you're worried, just talk to people. If talking to someone about something makes you feel better, keep doing it. Sometimes just speaking about it helps. Sometimes the perspective of someone else who cares about you just helps you make sense of it in a way that doesn't lean too heavily on your on neuroses.
Good friends make life easier.
posted by Strudel at 6:36 PM on January 8, 2012
I think that this is sort of like when you have a super-adrenaline rush that allows you to walk 5 miles on a broken leg all the way to the hospital. Once you get there, the adrenaline wears off and the pain sets in.
I went through something similar years ago. My father passed away unexpectedly the same day my mother-out-law was diagnosed with late stage cancer and we became her primary caregivers. My MIL finished all of her treatment many months later and moved back to her own home. And then the grief set in. I had had pretty good control over my PTSD before my father died and MIL got sick. Perhaps a therapist who specializes in trauma would help. That's who helped me get well again.
posted by kamikazegopher at 11:48 PM on January 8, 2012
I went through something similar years ago. My father passed away unexpectedly the same day my mother-out-law was diagnosed with late stage cancer and we became her primary caregivers. My MIL finished all of her treatment many months later and moved back to her own home. And then the grief set in. I had had pretty good control over my PTSD before my father died and MIL got sick. Perhaps a therapist who specializes in trauma would help. That's who helped me get well again.
posted by kamikazegopher at 11:48 PM on January 8, 2012
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Feel free to memail me for more detail, but I'm exhausted and wrapping up work now, so I can't really explain at the moment.
posted by bilabial at 2:04 PM on January 8, 2012