Crippling indecisiveness and more
January 5, 2012 4:50 PM   Subscribe

Crippling Indecisiveness and its backup singers The Inner Voices of Self-Hate.

I'm a 33-year-old woman who has been struggling with this crippling indecisiveness in varying degrees for about 8 years. What it comes down to is that I am completely unable to make any decision, no matter how small, without a major internal dialogue involving my total loser-dom. I've had the super-low self-esteem for most of my life.

Example 1: I'm at Target and I need to get children's ibuprofen. There are a couple of different brands and flavors. I am unable to decide which to get, and finally just grab one at random through a haze of tears. Internally berate myself for not being able to figure out which one to get, what the hell kind of mother am I.

Example 2: Husband wants to know where I want to go for dinner. I am unable to decide because a) I'm worried that he won't like my decision, and b) he'll then find out how horrible of a person I am. (Note: I know intellectually how STUPID this sounds, and would never actually happen because my husband doesn't think I'm horrible.)

Example 2 happens a lot with friends as well...I can't decide or even suggest places because what if they don't like what I suggest? Sure, I can sit here and write this and say "So what if they don't like it?" But in the moment, it's paralyzing. I'm more willing to go to a place I don't like that they suggest than I am to suggest something myself. The thoughts spiral and spiral and it's just out of control.


Background: Only child with a controlling mother whose criticisms I still struggle with. History of depression and possible anxiety, possible bipolar II. Not currently medicated while I get migraine meds figured out. (Please don't say "Just get back on your meds." I had these problems even when I was medicated.) I've tried therapy several times, though not specifically for this issue. I do NOT have this problem at work (for the most part)...I make decisions all the time and feel good about myself.


How do I fix this? How can I model good self-esteem and good decision-making for my kids? How can I stop the spiraling thoughts of total self-hate? Why do I feel this way?

Throwaway email at indecisive.anon at gmail.
posted by anonymous to Health & Fitness (18 answers total) 20 users marked this as a favorite
 
Obviously I think therapy would help, but in the meantime can you try something like the 5-3-1 method with hubby and friends for decision making? You suggest 5 places you'd like to go for dinner, have him narrow that down to 3 he likes best, and then you choose 1 of his 3 choices. Then everyone's got some input in the decision.
posted by jabes at 4:55 PM on January 5, 2012 [6 favorites]


I am not a doctor, I am not your doctor.

However, this sounds painfully familiar to me as someone with generalized anxiety disorder. At its worst, I was a mess of doubts, panic, and fear about everything. Even now, more than a decade after being diagnosed and medicated, it can sometimes still get that bad on a very bad day.

Let me encourage you to see a psychologist - not a therapist - as soon as humanly possible, and tell them what you have told us. I know how hard that step can be, but do it as soon as you can.
posted by strixus at 4:55 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


I can't speak to your needs around mental health treatment, but I can share a resource that has really helped with cultivating inner kindness: There is Nothing Wrong With You by Cheri Huber.
posted by ottereroticist at 5:12 PM on January 5, 2012 [3 favorites]


It sounds like you have adult coping mechanisms for your professional life, but the legacy of childhood trauma is, understandably, amplified around personal relationships. You weren't shown appropriate love and you struggle with helplessness as a result. I've had a similar struggle. Therapy helps but a small mantra I use during wobbles I have making decisions that affect others helps: 'what's the worse thing that can happen?' In a restaurant or cafe choosing situation for example, you've already got to the heart of the anxiety - the worse thing has already been conjured; your friend won't like it, or your husband will disapprove. BUT. The restaurant isn't YOU, it's just a restaurant. Your loved ones don't equate you with a restaurant. They love YOU. The worse thing that can happen is that your friends won't like a restaurant. They will still like you and will be there loving you, well after the restaurant outing is over.

You are safe to take risks because you have a loving husband and friends in your adult life. The childhood pattern of shaming is not the way your adult others treat you. When you feel your anxious feelings emerge, recognize them as coming from a primal, archaic response to childhood conditioning, then remind yourself how you've left those people behind and have found loving, safe people for your life now. The more you practise this self-talk, the more you'll decouple your anxiety from adult decisions. I hope. It takes real practice and long-haul focus. And I'd (NAD, Not your doctor) recommend a therapist specializing in developmental psychology.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:18 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


This sounds incredibly familiar to me -- not my own story though, my mother's. She has anxiety associated with obsessive-compulsive disorder. Prozac helped a lot, prozac plus CBT helped more. She does still obsess, but she's no longer compelled or disordered, if you know what I mean. :-) Memail me if you want to know more; I don't want to tell too many family stories on the big wide internet.
posted by KathrynT at 5:30 PM on January 5, 2012


Talk to your general practitioner. I suggest your GP so she can rule out any physical problems and make a referral to a psychologist/psychiatrist. I take Zoloft. It helped me, it may help you. Prozac made me nuts. If one drug does not help, don't give up, try another. If you can afford it or your insurance will cover it, I suggest behavioral therapy.
posted by wandering_not_lost at 6:53 PM on January 5, 2012


I'm not saying "get back on the meds," exactly, but could it also be that, in addition to the issues that never really got addressed, the meds you were on weren't actually effective enough for you? The way to medicate depression, for example, is not typically the way to medicate bipolar II -- if that's what you have, standard antidepressants alone would be liable to agitate you and/or give out pretty quickly. Anxiety might also call for a different medication regime.

I don't mean to say "the right meds would fix everything," because even if the meds work and even if you had no issues to work through, you would still have those depressed/anxious thinking habits to unlearn. But if the meds never made this any easier, I wonder whether you could have just accepted the results you did get as good enough, perhaps out of hopelessness or regimen-changing-fatigue and/or low self-esteem. I wish I could give you advice on how to find a good therapist right off the bat, other than that you need to find somebody you think you can respect and maybe even like most of the time and drop somebody quickly if you feel no trace of rapport. If you can find/afford a psychiatrist who does therapy, that might not be a bad idea -- it doesn't hurt to have the person doing the prescribing observing your moods and not just relying on your self-reporting, if you're at all inclined to call things "good enough" for you when they aren't really helping that much. It isn't necessary, though, as long as your therapist is aware that you've had significant problems functioning even while on medication.
posted by Adventurer at 7:33 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


The term for the first part of what you are describing is decision or analysis paralysis and it happens in fortune 500 companies as well as individuals. (For me it's home repair projects that crumble into endless reading of how-to pages despite the fact that I probably knew what I should do before I turned on the computer.)

The fact that you can make decisions just fine at work suggests that the root of the issue seems more that you've been conditioned to believe that your friends and loved ones are constantly judging you and every trivial thing you do and ready to hate you forever based on some arbitrary criterion. As you say, you intellectually know that's false, but there is a gulf between knowing and believing. I would recommend that you talk to a therapist or psychologist and focus on that.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:59 PM on January 5, 2012 [2 favorites]


It sounds like your meds are wrong. If I were you, I would get the best and most expensive psychiatrist I could find. It can make a massive difference in the quality of care you receive. In the meantime, seconding ottererotecist's recommendation of that Cheri Huber book. I can tell you honestly that it's the only book I've ever read that's changed the way I feel about myself. It's the real deal.
posted by facetious at 8:07 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


This sounds very familiar to me.

In my case, there is the part of me that feels that everything I do is useless ('Sup depression) and mocks me, "No, your choices don't matter because it all turns to shit!" versus a quieter voice that tries to pipe up to say, "No, but you do matter! It's just dinner! Pick something!" Then it all snowballs into something similar to you, "OMG how much do I suck that I can't even decide dinner!"

I suspect this might be hard for you to hear, but I will say it: Your choices matter. You matter. You are allowed to have what you want. It's terrifying, relying on your own judgement instead of your perceived judgement that others hold of you. Valuing your own judgement. Trusting yourself.

It sounds like you don't hold yourself in very high esteem. Apparently "normal" people don't have this amount of anxiety in decision making. I imagine it is blissful. I searched and found a therapist I trust who has helped me get this far - far enough away to see the emotional rube goldberg - so I can focus on the negativity that bubbles inside me. I've been doing gut checks on the tiniest of decisions, "Do I really want cream in my coffee today?" and I see how I honestly answer myself. It takes practice.
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:19 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


ibuprofin: it's literally all the same chemical, it doesn't matter.

maybe pick some choice that you know is small. then just decide on something, it doesn't matter, and go with it, even though you have reservations. you'll notice it isn't so terrible if your choice doesn't turn out great. then, work your way up.

if it's a decision made with another person, it's ok to have no preference too.
posted by cupcake1337 at 9:41 PM on January 5, 2012


So, I'm not a 'satisficer', but I'm tried...

I know, I suck at it too. The more tired I am, the longer I'll spend in the supermarket (comparing every [literal] can of beans by weight, price, % of beans, ingredients etc).

I panic most when ordering at a restaurant.

Here is my strategy.
So, go through the list or point near randomly at the first 'acceptable' one, that is now your backup plan.
Ha! I know you're thinking that if you could just choose one, it'd be ok, but I'll explain how it works - For everything, there is a reasonable time limit in which you should 'just choose' or get off the pot (this is where the stress comes from, because you know you've spent longer than that).
However, UNTIL you hit that limit, you are allowed to keep researching, and choose if you want to replace your 'backup plan' with a better one. So you really can just choose the first thing on the menu that won't give you an allergy (It's Indian? ^Butter Chicken^). And yet, because you're only comparing it against one other choice in your head at any one time, it is easier to choose between them (actually, tonight, ^Chicken Korma^ is better than Butter Chicken).
Furthermore, when the time-limit hits (*Hmmm.... but maybe the Salak Paneer?*), you have an option you can just blurt out ( ELYSUM! It's your turn to order! The Chicken Korma, thanks!).

That, and keep a notebook, and write down things you'd like to try. Movies, books, restaurants. You remember better what you were/are interested in, and are more likely to try it.
posted by Elysum at 11:38 PM on January 5, 2012 [1 favorite]


I know several people like you, all women. I'm not trying to be sexist, but it's the truth.

With the ibuprofen situation, like cupcake1337 said, they're all the same. So there's an easy way to choose - price and quantity. That's the only difference.

As for the dinner scenario, I'd rather you made a decision that doesn't work out all that well, than no decision at all. I know that if I ask someone "Where do you want to go for dinner?", that they're not responsible for the results. It's all part of the adventure. Assuming your husband is a decent guy, he won't hold it against you if the place sucks. At the very least, you've got out and enjoyed each other's company, and maybe will have something to talk and laugh about together tomorrow. "Oh gawd, how about that waitress? What was with her? We'll never go back there again, hey?".
posted by Diag at 5:50 AM on January 6, 2012


My mum criticises me constantly, but it is only now (age 45) that I realise that she doesn't even know she's doing it.

She wants the best for me and gives or withdraws affection in order to direct me down the path that she wants me to go down. That makes me feel controlled, and awful.

Often, my interior monologue will be led by "her" voice, the one I have synthesized and installed in my own head. I am constantly fighting with "her", the her I have constructed. This is painful, but it also provides me with an excuse when things go wrong as I can blame "her" for bad advice.

Over Xmas I realised, "You and I don't agree with each other about some things, and that's fine. You and I are born in different times, in different backgrounds, in different environments. It would be amazing if we did agree with each other about absolutely everything. We don't, and that's all there is to it."

So now I know its okay to be wrong, because that's what most of us do most of the time. Mistakes are normal. You should be making mistakes. That's what people do.
posted by devious truculent and unreliable at 6:17 AM on January 6, 2012 [2 favorites]


Your brain has learned somehow that choosing something leads to bad results.

Your job now is to teach your brain that choosing something can lead to good results.

Your brain can be really good at learning new things, if you just help it along the way a little. I don't know if you've ever learned anything about dog training, but your brain can be trained in pretty much the same way you train a dog. In fact it can be much MORE effective to train a human brain like you train a dog, than to use explaining and reasoning and all those things which you are trying and which are not working.

So, to invoke the "dog learning" part of your brain, you need to identify a very small simple action that you want to train yourself to do. The smaller and simpler you can get it the better. Choosing a brand of ibuprufen to buy is a good example. Then you need to repeat this action a lot of times - so maybe ibuprufen is not such a good example after all :-) . Each time you make this little choice, you need a way to give yourself a really positive feeling, at the exact moment you make the choice.

Maybe you already know how to invoke a positive feeling - you could try right now, see if you can remember an occasion when you felt great about yourself, and bring that to mind. Imagine it vividly, remember what happened, feel how you felt, try to find a way to invoke that feeling on yourself.

If you're finding that difficult (and it is difficult) then you can get your husband in on the game. Go to the supermarket. Choose a brand of ibuprufen (or pickles or whatever). The moment it goes in the basket your husband puts on a massive grin, says "I love you!" and gives you a hug.

You then have to tour the store and keep choosing things and keep getting hugs until you have finished the shopping. Next time you go shopping you have to do it again. And again. And again.

Yes this is very silly. But it works.
posted by emilyw at 6:54 AM on January 6, 2012 [2 favorites]


I tend to agree that a more aggressive review of your medication is in order, once you get the migraine issues and other blockers sorted out.

In the meantime, though, I kind of know how you feel about this. I've had anxiety all my life, though not in this specific form.

When I have to face doing something that fills me with dread, it takes some work to focus on the FACT that this is just something I have to just DO and I don't have to FEEL any way about it. Having rules and routines can help with this, e.g., one job application per week, must be completed on Tuesday evenings.

If you can work your way through a system, you will soon find that your problem-solving skills improve quite a lot, and you will be seeing results that you can't deny. You may still FEEL really anxious, but you'll also be able to separate the FEELING of anxiety, horrible though it is, from the FACT of what you're actually doing. I know you want the anxiety to go away, but even if it doesn't, it still loses a lot of its power over you if you keep on thinking through the problem regardless.

For you to implement this, you could perhaps make a rule that pre-decides a lot of things for you, like "other things being equal, always get the cheapest thing." I realize that even that's not particularly simple (what about comparing weights and measures, is it still the cheapest? what about the fact that we habitually buy this brand and like it?) but it is a start. You could start small, by applying this rule-based stuff JUST to the shopping, and resolving that the first time out, you will stick to the rule "as is" with only certain necessary exceptions, and revise it appropriately for the next time.

That leaves you with the cases where the other things aren't equal. Let's take the example you gave: children's ibuprofen. Let's take a look at all the children's ibuprofen products, and eliminate all the ones that also contain other active ingredients, like (for example, I don't know what they actually put in that stuff) acetominophen or caffeine or whatever. Now all we have to choose from is the "children's ibuprofen, nothing more" products.

For example we have a row of six appropriate products. Which one is the cheapest? Now read the ingredients and the labels to see if there is any obvious reason why you should not choose that particular product. Obvious reasons are things like "do not give to red-haired children as this may cause skinned knees [and your children have red hair]" or "this product was made of genuine brand-new elephant ivory by child slaves in Bali". If the label has stuff like that on it, that suggests it's dangerous and/or unethical to give it to your kid, then of course, eliminate that product.

Otherwise, put it on the "maybe" pile and go up to the next cheapest. How do the ingredients compare? Is there any substantial difference between the two? My guess is they'll both be pretty similar and nothing that you see there will be a compelling reason to choose between the two. If that's the case, hang on to the cheaper product, put the more expensive product on the "probably not" pile, and then compare the cheaper product to the third cheapest product. Keep comparing until you work your way up to the most expensive product.

Go through this process no matter the temptation to give up or accuse yourself of all kinds of things, including over-thinking and over-analyzing. Your mind wants to overanalyze, let it do that for a while to satisfy its curiosity. If your anxiety wants to yell at you and berate you, well, let it do what it must, but you are not stopping until you have chosen the product you want.

If details and pros and cons keep bugging you as you try to think it through, write them down rather than let them float around. Writing them down will free you up to focus on other things without forgetting these points. In fact, whenever your mind gets full and your head is spinning with pros and cons, write them down. This by itself will relieve your working memory and reduce quite a bit of the stress.

Now you have narrowed down the children's ibuprofen to the cheapest acceptable product. Write down the brand name so that you know what kind to get next time. If any problems arise from using that particular brand, you can always go through the product selection process again. But most likely, nothing bad will happen - as you know, really.

Supposing you pick a brand of soup that your family hates. Well, so what? All that means is they had bad soup for one meal. Cry me a river, huh?

The point of all this is to get you to focus on the problem as it actually *is*. It is difficult to go through exercises like this without developing a sense of proportion. You will probably still FEEL anxious, but at least you can prove to yourself that you're as good a decision-maker as anyone else.

At least this kind of systematic approach has worked for me. I hope it helps you, too.
posted by tel3path at 8:11 AM on January 6, 2012 [3 favorites]


Another vote for Cheri Huber's book "There is Nothing Wrong with You". I'll also recommend another book of hers, "The Key: And the Name of the Key is Willingness".
posted by BigSky at 10:21 PM on January 7, 2012


I am the poster of this question, and I want to thank you all for your great advice. I've found that this problem of mine goes in phases, and I posted this in the middle of one of the worst phases I've ever had. Now things have calmed down, and that's partially due to the great answers I received here. I wish I could mark best answers, but favorites will have to do.

I want to check out the Cheri Huber book recommended by some of you, but our (giant) library system doesn't carry it, which I found completely bizarre. I will continue looking elsewhere for it.
posted by altopower at 8:35 AM on January 20, 2012


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