Struggling to finish college
January 4, 2012 6:55 PM Subscribe
After a year's break from college, I'm gearing up to go back into the fray. For a number of reasons, however, this is harder than it sounds.
This is going to be a bit long; feel free to skim as needed. I'm just including this background for the sake of reference as people respond and are curious about certain details of my situation. That said:
Background:
In the summer of 2005, just out of high school, I left Eau Claire, my home town in Wisconsin, and attended The Art Institutes International Of Minneapolis, hoping to train in illustration and eventually animation. After roughly a year and a half, however, it became painfully clear I was out of place. The classes weren't connecting, and in many cases seemed incredibly poorly constructed. The staff were disorganized, rude, and generally unprofessional, and the school itself was incredibly expensive. Later, I would learn that AI is in fact a notorious "For Profit" school, existing almost entirely to simultaneously scam students and the federal government (via financial aid). They've actually been sued for their overly aggressive and dishonest recruitment strategies, and there are, for example, whole groups on Deviant Art warning artists to stay away. In short, I was played: to the tune of at least $25,000. Crushed and disappointed, I left, taking a semester of classes at a local tech college while I waited for my lease to expire.
Once it did, I moved home and enrolled in the local University. It was a bit lack-luster, but better than a random tech college, and very cheap. My hope was to get a decent major/minor, maybe not something I loved, but something I could work with for the short term. And at the least, graduate with something. To this end, I initially switched to journalism, since writing and language in general has always been fairly easy for me. But a few classes into the major and I was feeling incredibly disconnected. Journalism didn't seem to have much promise, and if I was just trying to graduate with something, why not something I enjoyed more? So I switched to an Illustration major in the art department. And thus began the second stage of my nightmare.
Between AI or my U's art department, it's difficult to decide which was the most unprofessional, dishonest, or disorganized, but my U's art department was certainly the most hostile environment. Professors who were supposed to aid students in navigating the incredibly convoluted class system would be insulted (and sometimes even enraged) when they were actually asked for help. Staff would routinely treat students with extreme disrespect, making it incredibly difficult to complete basic technical details like registration. As for the professors themselves: I should be clear, I don't expect my teachers to be super best buddies. They're there to do a job, as am I. And a certain degree of gruff is to be expected. But the teachers in this department generally interacted with their students through a withering, omnipresent sneer, in their voice more than their face, but very real. Their default position to everyone (students, other teachers, staff) seemed to be a dimly smoldering hatred, stoked with potent egotism. In general, the
department dripped with fear, rage, and condescension.
It was this incredibly hostile environment, along with personal (clinical depression) and family problems, that finally forced me to leave the college roughly a year ago. Since then, the latter two problems have improved a lot: I'm living alone now, self-sufficient thanks to a great part-time job that dropped out of the blue. And though my depression still gnaws at times, it's much less intense now.
And now I want to finish. Why? Three reasons:
1. I've invested a huge amount of time and money (around $50,000 at this point) in this debacle. I want to get SOMETHING out of it.
2. Society views you differently if you're a college graduate. Even if you gained little practical skill or knowledge from the process, you're
simply seen as a different class of person, just as high school and non-high school graduates are, and doors open up, just because of that piece of paper.
3. I don't want to make $11 an hour for the rest of my life. Ultimately, I still want to illustrate, but I've concluded that the best way to do that is to self-teach and slowly "spin up" a career for myself in that while working another job to support myself. I'd like to use this college shot to get a foot in the door at that "other job". It seems like my best bet.
That mountain of text out of the way, here, at last, are my questions, and my problems in moving forward:
1. What do I major in? I know, this is kind of THE college question. I'm asking from a different angle now though: not the usual "Which one is going to be the most fulfilling and best fit etc," but rather, in a cruder way, I'm wondering what, if any, are going to be worth much in a practical and immediate sense. I'm long past caring about personal fulfillment and growing as a person. I want training in something I can actually do that gives me earning power greater than $11 an hour. Maybe that isn't a possibility, but if it is, I want to take advantage of it. Something art-related but more basic might be useful, because it would help me build contacts and gain experience while I got the illustration stuff up to speed (it would also be faster, as I could probably cannibalize my current major for much of it). But I'm really open to any possibilities. All my gen eds are done, as well as a minor (Japanese) and most of it should transfer. It's just a question of where I'm going to get the biggest bang for my buck.
2. Where do I attend? I know, the old University is right there. But as that giant paragraph above explains, I really can't go back there. Not even for the handful of semesters it would take to finish. The department is abusive, and I'm especially vulnerable to that sort of thing. I'd love to move, except for two things:
a. The big one: I'm only afloat right now because of my miraculously good part time job. I quit that, the chances of getting another, similar one are pretty low, especially in this economy. It took me months to find this one, and I probably wouldn't even have it if the owner/boss wasn't a little crazy (in a good way: willing to take chances). So relocation is almost impossible.
b. My GPA is pretty mediocre: about 2.7. So getting into a nice state school (Madison for example) would be difficult to impossible at this point.
Sorry if this seems convoluted. It's a complex problem, and I'm basically asking for a little help brainstorming here, in hopes that some clever users will know something I don't. As it currently stands, it looks like my options boil down to either attending my local, abusive school, or a slightly less local, very unimpressive one, and in both cases graduation probably wouldn't have much worth beyond the diploma itself.
Thank you for taking the time to read, and for your replies.
This is going to be a bit long; feel free to skim as needed. I'm just including this background for the sake of reference as people respond and are curious about certain details of my situation. That said:
Background:
In the summer of 2005, just out of high school, I left Eau Claire, my home town in Wisconsin, and attended The Art Institutes International Of Minneapolis, hoping to train in illustration and eventually animation. After roughly a year and a half, however, it became painfully clear I was out of place. The classes weren't connecting, and in many cases seemed incredibly poorly constructed. The staff were disorganized, rude, and generally unprofessional, and the school itself was incredibly expensive. Later, I would learn that AI is in fact a notorious "For Profit" school, existing almost entirely to simultaneously scam students and the federal government (via financial aid). They've actually been sued for their overly aggressive and dishonest recruitment strategies, and there are, for example, whole groups on Deviant Art warning artists to stay away. In short, I was played: to the tune of at least $25,000. Crushed and disappointed, I left, taking a semester of classes at a local tech college while I waited for my lease to expire.
Once it did, I moved home and enrolled in the local University. It was a bit lack-luster, but better than a random tech college, and very cheap. My hope was to get a decent major/minor, maybe not something I loved, but something I could work with for the short term. And at the least, graduate with something. To this end, I initially switched to journalism, since writing and language in general has always been fairly easy for me. But a few classes into the major and I was feeling incredibly disconnected. Journalism didn't seem to have much promise, and if I was just trying to graduate with something, why not something I enjoyed more? So I switched to an Illustration major in the art department. And thus began the second stage of my nightmare.
Between AI or my U's art department, it's difficult to decide which was the most unprofessional, dishonest, or disorganized, but my U's art department was certainly the most hostile environment. Professors who were supposed to aid students in navigating the incredibly convoluted class system would be insulted (and sometimes even enraged) when they were actually asked for help. Staff would routinely treat students with extreme disrespect, making it incredibly difficult to complete basic technical details like registration. As for the professors themselves: I should be clear, I don't expect my teachers to be super best buddies. They're there to do a job, as am I. And a certain degree of gruff is to be expected. But the teachers in this department generally interacted with their students through a withering, omnipresent sneer, in their voice more than their face, but very real. Their default position to everyone (students, other teachers, staff) seemed to be a dimly smoldering hatred, stoked with potent egotism. In general, the
department dripped with fear, rage, and condescension.
It was this incredibly hostile environment, along with personal (clinical depression) and family problems, that finally forced me to leave the college roughly a year ago. Since then, the latter two problems have improved a lot: I'm living alone now, self-sufficient thanks to a great part-time job that dropped out of the blue. And though my depression still gnaws at times, it's much less intense now.
And now I want to finish. Why? Three reasons:
1. I've invested a huge amount of time and money (around $50,000 at this point) in this debacle. I want to get SOMETHING out of it.
2. Society views you differently if you're a college graduate. Even if you gained little practical skill or knowledge from the process, you're
simply seen as a different class of person, just as high school and non-high school graduates are, and doors open up, just because of that piece of paper.
3. I don't want to make $11 an hour for the rest of my life. Ultimately, I still want to illustrate, but I've concluded that the best way to do that is to self-teach and slowly "spin up" a career for myself in that while working another job to support myself. I'd like to use this college shot to get a foot in the door at that "other job". It seems like my best bet.
That mountain of text out of the way, here, at last, are my questions, and my problems in moving forward:
1. What do I major in? I know, this is kind of THE college question. I'm asking from a different angle now though: not the usual "Which one is going to be the most fulfilling and best fit etc," but rather, in a cruder way, I'm wondering what, if any, are going to be worth much in a practical and immediate sense. I'm long past caring about personal fulfillment and growing as a person. I want training in something I can actually do that gives me earning power greater than $11 an hour. Maybe that isn't a possibility, but if it is, I want to take advantage of it. Something art-related but more basic might be useful, because it would help me build contacts and gain experience while I got the illustration stuff up to speed (it would also be faster, as I could probably cannibalize my current major for much of it). But I'm really open to any possibilities. All my gen eds are done, as well as a minor (Japanese) and most of it should transfer. It's just a question of where I'm going to get the biggest bang for my buck.
2. Where do I attend? I know, the old University is right there. But as that giant paragraph above explains, I really can't go back there. Not even for the handful of semesters it would take to finish. The department is abusive, and I'm especially vulnerable to that sort of thing. I'd love to move, except for two things:
a. The big one: I'm only afloat right now because of my miraculously good part time job. I quit that, the chances of getting another, similar one are pretty low, especially in this economy. It took me months to find this one, and I probably wouldn't even have it if the owner/boss wasn't a little crazy (in a good way: willing to take chances). So relocation is almost impossible.
b. My GPA is pretty mediocre: about 2.7. So getting into a nice state school (Madison for example) would be difficult to impossible at this point.
Sorry if this seems convoluted. It's a complex problem, and I'm basically asking for a little help brainstorming here, in hopes that some clever users will know something I don't. As it currently stands, it looks like my options boil down to either attending my local, abusive school, or a slightly less local, very unimpressive one, and in both cases graduation probably wouldn't have much worth beyond the diploma itself.
Thank you for taking the time to read, and for your replies.
Best answer: Well, I'm from the Midwest, so I'll make some sorta local suggestions. I don't really see staying where you are to be a fabulous educational option (not to mention that the potential market for illustrators in your neck of Wisconsin is small), so here's my two cents:
The American Academy of Art in Chicago offers a very practical, non-conceptual illustration degree program. Basically, the classes are low-key, and you receive all the practical illustration foundation you need. You will get as much as you put into it. You seem to be going the self-starter route, so this could work for you. No, it isn't prestigious as the nearby School of the Art Institute, but that school is more for conceptual artists requiring large facilities for multi-media, print-making, paint-slinging, subversive puppeteering-- the antithesis of a practical illustration program, basically.
Also if you go to school in Chicago, you can pick up extra classes/live model drawing sessions at the Palette and Chisel.
Columbia College has a decent illustration program, also-- you'll just have to go that extra mile yourself to really progress. As with anything in life, I suppose.
posted by devymetal at 7:16 PM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
The American Academy of Art in Chicago offers a very practical, non-conceptual illustration degree program. Basically, the classes are low-key, and you receive all the practical illustration foundation you need. You will get as much as you put into it. You seem to be going the self-starter route, so this could work for you. No, it isn't prestigious as the nearby School of the Art Institute, but that school is more for conceptual artists requiring large facilities for multi-media, print-making, paint-slinging, subversive puppeteering-- the antithesis of a practical illustration program, basically.
Also if you go to school in Chicago, you can pick up extra classes/live model drawing sessions at the Palette and Chisel.
Columbia College has a decent illustration program, also-- you'll just have to go that extra mile yourself to really progress. As with anything in life, I suppose.
posted by devymetal at 7:16 PM on January 4, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hmm. Do you like kids? What about majoring in education and becoming an art teacher for, say, elementary school students? Summer breaks, you get be creative all day, imparting your passion for something you love to children...there are worse jobs, I'm sure. Also, I know next to nothing about midwestern colleges, but I know traditionally a lot of aspiring artists often major in something like art history with the goal of working in a museum to make ends meet.
Set design for the theatre? Not exactly lucrative, but good set designers are often very valuable, and might be a good way to make money on the side. Chicago is a fantastic city for theatre, but I'm sure there are other midwestern options. You mention writing and language. What about becoming an editor? Advertising? What about down a slightly more business oriented path and trying to get involved in some kind of artsy nonprofit organization?
posted by Emms at 7:47 PM on January 4, 2012
Set design for the theatre? Not exactly lucrative, but good set designers are often very valuable, and might be a good way to make money on the side. Chicago is a fantastic city for theatre, but I'm sure there are other midwestern options. You mention writing and language. What about becoming an editor? Advertising? What about down a slightly more business oriented path and trying to get involved in some kind of artsy nonprofit organization?
posted by Emms at 7:47 PM on January 4, 2012
If you're looking for something useful and money-making-y, have you thought about engineering drafting? Civil drafters make drawings of blueprints, buildings or bridges about to be constructed etc, electrical drafters make circuit drawings, and mechanical drafters make equipment schematics among other things. I'm not sure how competitive it is, but if you have a finely trained eye and skill for accurate drawings, it might be something to look into. Drafting seems to require an AA degree.
Also, indusrial design might capture some of your interests in a way that makes more money.
posted by permiechickie at 7:58 PM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, indusrial design might capture some of your interests in a way that makes more money.
posted by permiechickie at 7:58 PM on January 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Beware sunk cost fallacy in making your decision. "I spent so much already" is not a good reason.
I've returned to school after a horrible initial career (and rock-bottom GPA--take yours and cut it in half!) and this is how I got into my reasonably OK state school:
1) Investigated programs in the state schools that were in my area, and settled on the one I wanted.
2) Spoke with advisors at my preferred school at the steps I needed to get in. Showed them my transcript and discussed which classes could transfer over.
3) Looked around at local community colleges to find out if they had relationships with any of these state school programs. Most state schools are accustomed to students transferring in from community colleges and the CCs will have a standardized list of equivalencies between their classes and the state school classes.
4) Figured out what pre-reqs I needed for the more advanced classes and Gen Ed courses were required
5) Took classes at said community college for two semesters (summer and fall), getting a stellar GPA
6) Applied to state school with a "Look how I've improved!" story, got in easily.
State schools just want to see that you're willing to work hard and improve. Often they like returning students because they're much more serious and driven.
posted by Anonymous at 8:17 PM on January 4, 2012
I've returned to school after a horrible initial career (and rock-bottom GPA--take yours and cut it in half!) and this is how I got into my reasonably OK state school:
1) Investigated programs in the state schools that were in my area, and settled on the one I wanted.
2) Spoke with advisors at my preferred school at the steps I needed to get in. Showed them my transcript and discussed which classes could transfer over.
3) Looked around at local community colleges to find out if they had relationships with any of these state school programs. Most state schools are accustomed to students transferring in from community colleges and the CCs will have a standardized list of equivalencies between their classes and the state school classes.
4) Figured out what pre-reqs I needed for the more advanced classes and Gen Ed courses were required
5) Took classes at said community college for two semesters (summer and fall), getting a stellar GPA
6) Applied to state school with a "Look how I've improved!" story, got in easily.
State schools just want to see that you're willing to work hard and improve. Often they like returning students because they're much more serious and driven.
posted by Anonymous at 8:17 PM on January 4, 2012
At my old job I worked with students at art and design schools and did a fair amount of early career advising. If you truly want to be an illustrator, this is my advice:
Being a "college graduate" isn't going to hold as much weight as an awesome portfolio. Your work as an illustrator will speak for itself, right? I've never known any company to hire an illustrator for a gig based on having a degree or not. The same is pretty much true of any job in the commercial at world.
If money weren't an issue, I'd suggest transferring to a serious art/design school in a city with some career opportunities (like MCAD, if you wanted to stay in the general area) and really developing your portfolio. A good school will offer the best connections for work after graduation. Or what about UW-Milwaukee? Or maybe some part-time art classes while you're working part-time?
But please don't go to college and study something you're not all that interested in just for the sake of being a college grad. If you're dead set on it, why not work a little more and figure out what you really want to do before making this decision and continuing to pour money into it?
posted by pourtant at 8:33 PM on January 4, 2012
Being a "college graduate" isn't going to hold as much weight as an awesome portfolio. Your work as an illustrator will speak for itself, right? I've never known any company to hire an illustrator for a gig based on having a degree or not. The same is pretty much true of any job in the commercial at world.
If money weren't an issue, I'd suggest transferring to a serious art/design school in a city with some career opportunities (like MCAD, if you wanted to stay in the general area) and really developing your portfolio. A good school will offer the best connections for work after graduation. Or what about UW-Milwaukee? Or maybe some part-time art classes while you're working part-time?
But please don't go to college and study something you're not all that interested in just for the sake of being a college grad. If you're dead set on it, why not work a little more and figure out what you really want to do before making this decision and continuing to pour money into it?
posted by pourtant at 8:33 PM on January 4, 2012
So it wouldn't be a bachelor's degree, but Madison Area Technical College's Animation Program seems to be very well regarded locally. It has a tremendously long wait list (like 3 years), but it might be worth your time to put yourself on the list regardless of what you decide to do in the immediate future-then at least the door is open if you decide it is what you are interested in a few years down the road.
posted by mjcon at 9:00 PM on January 4, 2012
posted by mjcon at 9:00 PM on January 4, 2012
2. Society views you differently if you're a college graduate. Even if you gained little practical skill or knowledge from the process, you're simply seen as a different class of person, just as high school and non-high school graduates are, and doors open up, just because of that piece of paper.
Your mileage may of course vary, but my English lit degree has not done this for me. It did not change my luck at getting entry-level jobs, that's for sure. I don't see this as a good reason to finish your degree. Do only a program which will teach you real-world skills that are in demand.
(That said, I loved university and don't regret said English degree. It's different if you are enjoying it and if it's what you want--you sound like that's not your motivation.)
Have you looked into things like medical illustration? Maybe you could consider technical courses that would help you get that kind of illustration work.
posted by snorkmaiden at 10:26 PM on January 4, 2012
re Reason 1: Don't even think about this. See 'sunk cost fallacy' above. It literally shouldn't come into your decision, except possibly to note that while you are in college you won't have to be paying this back.
Question 1: if you switch to a different college (IF) then can't you turn Japanese into a major? Then pick up something useful sounding like Business Administration, or even math or accounting if you have any aptitude/interest in that direction), Marketing, Technical Communication, etc. as your new minor. If you stay, pick one from the same list, but as your new major (assuming you are at UW-EC which seems to only offer Japanese as a minor). Basically if you aren't going to take a vocational major (Engineering, Comp Sci, med, etc) or something you're madly in love with, get something generic office useful sounding and just focus on good grades.
Question 2: why can't you go back to your local college and do something in a different department? If you're just in it to get the degree, then you can postpone the illustration/art related study until you move somewhere else with a full time job. Returning to your original college is likely to be far easier than transferring credits to a different one, and you won't have to try and move and give up your current job.
posted by jacalata at 12:24 AM on January 5, 2012
Question 1: if you switch to a different college (IF) then can't you turn Japanese into a major? Then pick up something useful sounding like Business Administration, or even math or accounting if you have any aptitude/interest in that direction), Marketing, Technical Communication, etc. as your new minor. If you stay, pick one from the same list, but as your new major (assuming you are at UW-EC which seems to only offer Japanese as a minor). Basically if you aren't going to take a vocational major (Engineering, Comp Sci, med, etc) or something you're madly in love with, get something generic office useful sounding and just focus on good grades.
Question 2: why can't you go back to your local college and do something in a different department? If you're just in it to get the degree, then you can postpone the illustration/art related study until you move somewhere else with a full time job. Returning to your original college is likely to be far easier than transferring credits to a different one, and you won't have to try and move and give up your current job.
posted by jacalata at 12:24 AM on January 5, 2012
Have you finished the basic required freshman and sophomore level courses? If not, I'd recommend a local community college. It's cheaper. The class schedules usually offer courses in the evenings and weekends so that you can work while attending. You can improve your GPA. And it gives you time to sort out which major you want, while knocking out the courses you'd have to take anyway.
posted by Houstonian at 12:52 AM on January 5, 2012
posted by Houstonian at 12:52 AM on January 5, 2012
And I just now see that you addressed this. Sorry.
posted by Houstonian at 12:55 AM on January 5, 2012
posted by Houstonian at 12:55 AM on January 5, 2012
Response by poster: Alright, time for some replies.
@Facetious: I hear what you're saying, I do. I suppose ultimately the point of this question is to try to shake out something I can "want to do," at least a little. But the economy is tanking, and the things I'm interested in are incredibly challenging at the best of times. For me, right now, this isn't a choice between making a lot of money or only making a humble amount; if it was, I'd "follow my heart" in an instant. This is a choice between making a humble amount, and not making enough to survive. If I can find something I really want to do in the process, that's great too. But the bottom line is, I'm sitting here making sub sandwiches every day and thinking a. This isn't much to live on and b. I have a huge pile of debt I won't be able to crawl out of with this job.
Several people brought up the sunk cost fallacy, which is fair. On the other hand, the fallacy really only applies if you've been losing money because something is genuinely a bad investment, rather than your own failings. And the trouble is I don't really know whether college is a bad investment or not. What I DO know is that I have a huge pile of student loan debt and my own personal expenses, which while modest, are real. So I guess what I should have said with #1 wasn't so much "I'd hate for all that money to have been wasted" as it was "I need to make more money. Badly." All of the options for doing so look pretty bleak, but more college is the slightly-less bleak one.
There are some great suggestions for good schools to attend here; thanks for that. But the problem, again, is that I'm pinned in place by my job and GPA. The latter might be workable, but the former is a serious problem. Getting any job once I've re-located will take months if I'm lucky, and I can't just transfer into something similar: I deliver subs right now, and while that's great in a small town like this, there's no way I could do it in Chicago or Minneapolis. And this short circuits most of it: no job, no apartment and food, no school. Unfortunately this is also a catch-22: it's hard to impossible to get a modest part time job somewhere until I'm already there, but I can't safely move until I know I have a job to support myself.
A lot of replies have urged me not to go to college just to finish. But understand where I am. Right now, as far as I can see, my options are:
1. Go to college for random degree, maybe work it into a slightly better job than I have now. Use modest margin of money and time to study/work on what I really care about.
2. Keep working in my part time job until an emergency happens, or the loan companies stop letting me suspend my debts and the fragile house of cards, this little bit of foot-in-the-door I've worked so hard for falls apart completely.
If there's a real, genuine way to improve my place in life without college, I'm all ears. But understand I have very little margin here, and a very pressing need to up my earnings a little so I can pay my financial masters. Honestly, Facetious was dead on the money: I'm more than tepid on college, I actively dislike the idea. After 6 years of this, I've come to the conclusion that even mid-level state schools have been hollowed out by desire for cash and a lack of funding until they're more about SEEMING to educate than actually doing so. College is the unimaginative person's silver bullet, and I feel stupid for falling back on it. But I don't know what else to do. I'm not a genius, but I'm a smart guy, a geeky guy, creative. I have so much more to give the world than well-made sandwiches. But I just can't figure out how.
Finally, yes, I could go to my old local U for a different major, though even that would be a challenge. I suppose business might look good on a resume at least. I just don't know whether I'd be able to stick with it.
posted by wanderingchord at 10:00 AM on January 5, 2012
@Facetious: I hear what you're saying, I do. I suppose ultimately the point of this question is to try to shake out something I can "want to do," at least a little. But the economy is tanking, and the things I'm interested in are incredibly challenging at the best of times. For me, right now, this isn't a choice between making a lot of money or only making a humble amount; if it was, I'd "follow my heart" in an instant. This is a choice between making a humble amount, and not making enough to survive. If I can find something I really want to do in the process, that's great too. But the bottom line is, I'm sitting here making sub sandwiches every day and thinking a. This isn't much to live on and b. I have a huge pile of debt I won't be able to crawl out of with this job.
Several people brought up the sunk cost fallacy, which is fair. On the other hand, the fallacy really only applies if you've been losing money because something is genuinely a bad investment, rather than your own failings. And the trouble is I don't really know whether college is a bad investment or not. What I DO know is that I have a huge pile of student loan debt and my own personal expenses, which while modest, are real. So I guess what I should have said with #1 wasn't so much "I'd hate for all that money to have been wasted" as it was "I need to make more money. Badly." All of the options for doing so look pretty bleak, but more college is the slightly-less bleak one.
There are some great suggestions for good schools to attend here; thanks for that. But the problem, again, is that I'm pinned in place by my job and GPA. The latter might be workable, but the former is a serious problem. Getting any job once I've re-located will take months if I'm lucky, and I can't just transfer into something similar: I deliver subs right now, and while that's great in a small town like this, there's no way I could do it in Chicago or Minneapolis. And this short circuits most of it: no job, no apartment and food, no school. Unfortunately this is also a catch-22: it's hard to impossible to get a modest part time job somewhere until I'm already there, but I can't safely move until I know I have a job to support myself.
A lot of replies have urged me not to go to college just to finish. But understand where I am. Right now, as far as I can see, my options are:
1. Go to college for random degree, maybe work it into a slightly better job than I have now. Use modest margin of money and time to study/work on what I really care about.
2. Keep working in my part time job until an emergency happens, or the loan companies stop letting me suspend my debts and the fragile house of cards, this little bit of foot-in-the-door I've worked so hard for falls apart completely.
If there's a real, genuine way to improve my place in life without college, I'm all ears. But understand I have very little margin here, and a very pressing need to up my earnings a little so I can pay my financial masters. Honestly, Facetious was dead on the money: I'm more than tepid on college, I actively dislike the idea. After 6 years of this, I've come to the conclusion that even mid-level state schools have been hollowed out by desire for cash and a lack of funding until they're more about SEEMING to educate than actually doing so. College is the unimaginative person's silver bullet, and I feel stupid for falling back on it. But I don't know what else to do. I'm not a genius, but I'm a smart guy, a geeky guy, creative. I have so much more to give the world than well-made sandwiches. But I just can't figure out how.
Finally, yes, I could go to my old local U for a different major, though even that would be a challenge. I suppose business might look good on a resume at least. I just don't know whether I'd be able to stick with it.
posted by wanderingchord at 10:00 AM on January 5, 2012
Response by poster: Ok, screw it.
Maybe I'm not being direct enough. Let's clear away all the noise.
I'm making $11 an hour delivering sandwiches. I have a little under $50k in loans. $28k of that is the truly scary private stuff (the rest can be suspended for a long time with little penalty). Making payments that are as aggressive as possible while still allowing enough money to survive, I'll pay this off in 6 years. During that time, I will be living in a rented room and hoping my two housemates don't turn out to be dangerous creeps (as has happened in the past). I'll have no money for emergencies, very little for even modest relaxation or entertainment. My car will be parked on the street, and god help me if it needs any repairs, which I'll be forced to make because my income depends on it. Needless to say any real medical concern will be a disaster. I have no friends or family to help me. I have little money and only a bit of time to invest in any personal growth or improvement.
How do I improve this situation?
That's it. How do improve my chances, how to I gain more margin for error, how do I make an awful situation even slightly less so?
The more I read these responses, the more college seems like an awful idea. College is for people who aren't already 26 and eye-deep in debt that gained them nothing. College is for people with friends and relatives and contacts they can leech off until they somehow manage to totter through the system. College is for rich people. College isn't for me. Fine. I give up.
How do I improve my chances, my standing as it is now? Is there even a way? I am at the edge of the Grand Canyon, teetering, and it looks like I will be for the next six years. How do I put up a railing?
posted by wanderingchord at 11:22 AM on January 5, 2012
Maybe I'm not being direct enough. Let's clear away all the noise.
I'm making $11 an hour delivering sandwiches. I have a little under $50k in loans. $28k of that is the truly scary private stuff (the rest can be suspended for a long time with little penalty). Making payments that are as aggressive as possible while still allowing enough money to survive, I'll pay this off in 6 years. During that time, I will be living in a rented room and hoping my two housemates don't turn out to be dangerous creeps (as has happened in the past). I'll have no money for emergencies, very little for even modest relaxation or entertainment. My car will be parked on the street, and god help me if it needs any repairs, which I'll be forced to make because my income depends on it. Needless to say any real medical concern will be a disaster. I have no friends or family to help me. I have little money and only a bit of time to invest in any personal growth or improvement.
How do I improve this situation?
That's it. How do improve my chances, how to I gain more margin for error, how do I make an awful situation even slightly less so?
The more I read these responses, the more college seems like an awful idea. College is for people who aren't already 26 and eye-deep in debt that gained them nothing. College is for people with friends and relatives and contacts they can leech off until they somehow manage to totter through the system. College is for rich people. College isn't for me. Fine. I give up.
How do I improve my chances, my standing as it is now? Is there even a way? I am at the edge of the Grand Canyon, teetering, and it looks like I will be for the next six years. How do I put up a railing?
posted by wanderingchord at 11:22 AM on January 5, 2012
can you give us more details?
- if you went back to UW-EC, how many classes would you need to take to graduate?
- are your private loans consolidated? Have you looked into doing so?
- how many classes do you need to be taking in a semester/quarter to get your private loans deferred for being in school?
Your first step, while looking into all this, should be to pull back on the aggressive payments and pay the minimum for a few months, funnelling the extra into your own savings account instead. As you point out, you need emergency funds available for car repairs or medical needs. Even if doing this extends your potential payment periods by a year, it'll be worth it in the peace of mind you get knowing that you aren't so close to the edge.
posted by jacalata at 1:58 PM on January 5, 2012
- if you went back to UW-EC, how many classes would you need to take to graduate?
- are your private loans consolidated? Have you looked into doing so?
- how many classes do you need to be taking in a semester/quarter to get your private loans deferred for being in school?
Your first step, while looking into all this, should be to pull back on the aggressive payments and pay the minimum for a few months, funnelling the extra into your own savings account instead. As you point out, you need emergency funds available for car repairs or medical needs. Even if doing this extends your potential payment periods by a year, it'll be worth it in the peace of mind you get knowing that you aren't so close to the edge.
posted by jacalata at 1:58 PM on January 5, 2012
Okay, with this new information I have a couple suggestions.
- Don't worry about college right now. Remember that you can always go back when/if you're ready.
- Look for another PT job, or a FT job. Make it a priority to give yourself that safety net. You don't want to be stuck in Eau Claire in the long term.
- Build some marketable skills. Do you know Flash? Web development? 3-D modeling? With your art and illustration background, that might be a way into a real career for you.
Good luck. Keep in mind that many people in the design world are career changers. It's okay not to have it figured out right now.
posted by pourtant at 5:34 PM on January 5, 2012
- Don't worry about college right now. Remember that you can always go back when/if you're ready.
- Look for another PT job, or a FT job. Make it a priority to give yourself that safety net. You don't want to be stuck in Eau Claire in the long term.
- Build some marketable skills. Do you know Flash? Web development? 3-D modeling? With your art and illustration background, that might be a way into a real career for you.
Good luck. Keep in mind that many people in the design world are career changers. It's okay not to have it figured out right now.
posted by pourtant at 5:34 PM on January 5, 2012
Response by poster: @Jacalata:
-I'd have to pull some papers for specifics, but best I can remember, probably five or six? Due to having to do it part time, the way the classes are arranged etc though, it would work out to about two and a half semesters.
-I'm not sure how MeFi works, but I think you can look back through my older posts? Dig through a few of those: some of my first questions here were on what the hell I was going to do about my loans. Gritty details there. Very short summary though: just shy of 50k, about 28 in private (Sallie Mae), the
rest in "Private" (but not sinister like SM) and some federal. My Private loans don't consolidate and there wouldn't be much advantage in doing so anyway. The federal will float forever thanks to IBR. The smaller private is something like $26 a month, so not really a concern. SM is floating right now, but expensively ($200 fee for three months) and I don't know how much longer it that will last. When it ends, I'll be paying something like $200 a month just on that loan.
-Not sure how much I need to qualify for deferment while in school, but it think it has to be "full time", which would basically be impossible. Yet another great catch-22. The IBR on on right now might still apply there, might not. Don't know.
This is all details though, further down the pipe. If I can't make the basic math (food, shelter, essentials) work, the rest doesn't really matter.
Ooooh, but what you're saying is to manage my loans, pay no more than I have to? I'm sorry, but the sad truth is that I hashed all that out ages ago. Everything there is already re-engineered as much as possible. I am currently making almost zero payments (and with arrangement, not just ceasing to pay and waiting for them to come after me) through various policies. When I say I can't afford something, I mean I can't afford it EVEN WITH all my loans suspended. But I've gotta pay em off soon. I don't know how much longer I can keep SM off my back, and it's murder to other parts of my life. I can't even get a decent (non-predatory) credit card through my bank: they take one look at my income, another at my student loans, and go "Nope."
As for building up margin, sure, that would be nice. I'm hoping to actually buy my own car (still using one "Loaned" to me by family I can barely interact with, so the sooner that ends, the better). That's about 3 months away, assuming no disasters and decent pay. Say the emergency fund is $1000: that's another two months. Maybe toss in more, I don't know. But yeah, I suppose I could throw another year on and build some safety net for myself. Still doesn't solve the general problem though.
@Pourtant:
-I don't see it like this. The window is closing for me; it's almost closed as it is. If I don't get college now, either I succeed some other way, or I fail. If I succeed, who needs college? If I fail, money age and the general weight of life will make it impossible to re-enter.
-I can crank up my hours a bit, but it's not going to make a huge difference. I guess you're saying horde some money and use it to move somewhere else and support myself until I can find a job there? Maybe. I'm skeptical, but I guess I could think the numbers over a bit.
-This is pretty much what I'm wondering. What are those skills, and how do I build them without formal training? I suppose I can start digging through my local library and see what they have. Those fields reek of over-exposure though, especially web design. Thanks to my current job, I know there are already something like 5-10 little web design places, even in this tiny town, and they have actual offices and probably people with real degrees. Still, I agree, "Marketable Skills" is what I'm looking for. Just don't know how to approach that yet.
posted by wanderingchord at 7:47 PM on January 5, 2012
-I'd have to pull some papers for specifics, but best I can remember, probably five or six? Due to having to do it part time, the way the classes are arranged etc though, it would work out to about two and a half semesters.
-I'm not sure how MeFi works, but I think you can look back through my older posts? Dig through a few of those: some of my first questions here were on what the hell I was going to do about my loans. Gritty details there. Very short summary though: just shy of 50k, about 28 in private (Sallie Mae), the
rest in "Private" (but not sinister like SM) and some federal. My Private loans don't consolidate and there wouldn't be much advantage in doing so anyway. The federal will float forever thanks to IBR. The smaller private is something like $26 a month, so not really a concern. SM is floating right now, but expensively ($200 fee for three months) and I don't know how much longer it that will last. When it ends, I'll be paying something like $200 a month just on that loan.
-Not sure how much I need to qualify for deferment while in school, but it think it has to be "full time", which would basically be impossible. Yet another great catch-22. The IBR on on right now might still apply there, might not. Don't know.
This is all details though, further down the pipe. If I can't make the basic math (food, shelter, essentials) work, the rest doesn't really matter.
Ooooh, but what you're saying is to manage my loans, pay no more than I have to? I'm sorry, but the sad truth is that I hashed all that out ages ago. Everything there is already re-engineered as much as possible. I am currently making almost zero payments (and with arrangement, not just ceasing to pay and waiting for them to come after me) through various policies. When I say I can't afford something, I mean I can't afford it EVEN WITH all my loans suspended. But I've gotta pay em off soon. I don't know how much longer I can keep SM off my back, and it's murder to other parts of my life. I can't even get a decent (non-predatory) credit card through my bank: they take one look at my income, another at my student loans, and go "Nope."
As for building up margin, sure, that would be nice. I'm hoping to actually buy my own car (still using one "Loaned" to me by family I can barely interact with, so the sooner that ends, the better). That's about 3 months away, assuming no disasters and decent pay. Say the emergency fund is $1000: that's another two months. Maybe toss in more, I don't know. But yeah, I suppose I could throw another year on and build some safety net for myself. Still doesn't solve the general problem though.
@Pourtant:
-I don't see it like this. The window is closing for me; it's almost closed as it is. If I don't get college now, either I succeed some other way, or I fail. If I succeed, who needs college? If I fail, money age and the general weight of life will make it impossible to re-enter.
-I can crank up my hours a bit, but it's not going to make a huge difference. I guess you're saying horde some money and use it to move somewhere else and support myself until I can find a job there? Maybe. I'm skeptical, but I guess I could think the numbers over a bit.
-This is pretty much what I'm wondering. What are those skills, and how do I build them without formal training? I suppose I can start digging through my local library and see what they have. Those fields reek of over-exposure though, especially web design. Thanks to my current job, I know there are already something like 5-10 little web design places, even in this tiny town, and they have actual offices and probably people with real degrees. Still, I agree, "Marketable Skills" is what I'm looking for. Just don't know how to approach that yet.
posted by wanderingchord at 7:47 PM on January 5, 2012
Best answer: wanderingchord, you are basically in my exact situation. I worked dumb $9-11/hour jobs for years and years, lived poor as dirt, dreamt of having a retirement account. Understand a couple of things:
- If you are poor poor like me, you have a nice fat Pell Grant that you're eligible for and can basically pay for a good chunk of a full-time semester of community college classes
- When you have your community college classes boosting your GPA, you can go to the college where you want to apply and talk financial aid (you should do this early)
- Investigate deferment. Investigate deferment. INVESTIGATE FURTHER DEFERMENT
- Talk to the financial aid office about your current eligibility for more Federal Loans. You probably are eligible. Take advantage of this.
- Investigate if they have any scholarships for returning adults--in fact, most state schools and nearly all community colleges will have opportunities for working adults to take classes, so you can work and attend school
- You may qualify for work-study, which will give you the ability to obtain on-campus jobs that can provide some funding
- There is no way to do this without being as poor if not poorer than you are now. There ARE jobs out there, they are the shit $9-$11/hour jobs, but if you're OK with living on that while getting your degree you can swing it. Waitering is a time-honored college tradition.
I'm of two minds about obtaining the degree. I went back for mine because I had a very specific career path in mind and was ready for the educational requirements for it. I had experience in the industry and knew I wanted to work in it. If I didn't have this drive going back would have been a retarded decision.
However, I think people here underestimate the importance of the bachelor's or at least SOME kind of degree. If you haven't gone on a job search as an adult without a degree you have no idea how little there is available to you. I have been in workplaces where I was regarded as a giant idiot because I didn't have a degree and it clearly affected my ability to progress there and attain higher positions in the first place. This was even if the people who had degrees were clearly more incompetent and their degrees did not inform what they did in the workplace at all.
Also--this business about the "window closing" is nonsense. The window for college is never closed. You are basing that assumption because you know a bunch of kids in their early 20s who are all graduating, right? You don't have experience with any other adult learners. Well, there's one right here, and yes, it's totally possible and you can do this.
Are there no educational options in your area? No community colleges you can enroll in?
posted by Anonymous at 9:37 PM on January 5, 2012
- If you are poor poor like me, you have a nice fat Pell Grant that you're eligible for and can basically pay for a good chunk of a full-time semester of community college classes
- When you have your community college classes boosting your GPA, you can go to the college where you want to apply and talk financial aid (you should do this early)
- Investigate deferment. Investigate deferment. INVESTIGATE FURTHER DEFERMENT
- Talk to the financial aid office about your current eligibility for more Federal Loans. You probably are eligible. Take advantage of this.
- Investigate if they have any scholarships for returning adults--in fact, most state schools and nearly all community colleges will have opportunities for working adults to take classes, so you can work and attend school
- You may qualify for work-study, which will give you the ability to obtain on-campus jobs that can provide some funding
- There is no way to do this without being as poor if not poorer than you are now. There ARE jobs out there, they are the shit $9-$11/hour jobs, but if you're OK with living on that while getting your degree you can swing it. Waitering is a time-honored college tradition.
I'm of two minds about obtaining the degree. I went back for mine because I had a very specific career path in mind and was ready for the educational requirements for it. I had experience in the industry and knew I wanted to work in it. If I didn't have this drive going back would have been a retarded decision.
However, I think people here underestimate the importance of the bachelor's or at least SOME kind of degree. If you haven't gone on a job search as an adult without a degree you have no idea how little there is available to you. I have been in workplaces where I was regarded as a giant idiot because I didn't have a degree and it clearly affected my ability to progress there and attain higher positions in the first place. This was even if the people who had degrees were clearly more incompetent and their degrees did not inform what they did in the workplace at all.
Also--this business about the "window closing" is nonsense. The window for college is never closed. You are basing that assumption because you know a bunch of kids in their early 20s who are all graduating, right? You don't have experience with any other adult learners. Well, there's one right here, and yes, it's totally possible and you can do this.
Are there no educational options in your area? No community colleges you can enroll in?
posted by Anonymous at 9:37 PM on January 5, 2012
Best answer: This is all details though, further down the pipe. If I can't make the basic math (food, shelter, essentials) work, the rest doesn't really matter.
But you are making them work /right now/, correct? This month, you are paying for food, shelter and essentials. If not, then the rest of what I have is on the wrong track, sorry!
I'm hoping to actually buy my own car ... about 3 months away, assuming no disasters and decent pay. Say the emergency fund is $1000: that's another two months. ... Still doesn't solve the general problem though.
You can't solve all the problems at once. So if you would take two months to put aside $1000 after you have the new car, that means you are currently saving $500/month towards the car? And it's worth more to you to not have to deal with your family than to have a savings fund. That sounds great, it means in June you could have both your own car, and an emergency fund. Is that right? So then you will be able to cover your $200 SM loan payment, starting from June, and have a little bit over for savings/not squeezing yourself to death.
I think you need to check on how much longer your SM forebearance will last, just so you know exactly what you can do with it. I think you should also get confirmation of exactly how many classes you'd have to take to get in-school deferment, because most of what I've read says half-time should count. The basic idea I had was that if you could swing two classes a quarter while keeping your current job, then in 18 months (or more likely, 2 years, assuming it takes 6 months to get admissions etc organised) you could have a degree, without having dug yourself any deeper. If you can find financial aid/pell grants as schroedinger mentions, then this should not add to your loans. At the very least, you should be able to cover it with federal loans, not private, which would come with the easier income based repayment. (Federal loans almost definitely would be deferred while you were in school part-time, even Parent Plus loans can be set down to interest only if you are doing that).
I'm really sorry if I just sound hopelessly optimistic, or I'm missing things that feel like they are blocking you from my suggestions. But basically I think it's not hopeless, and you can, if you plan it longterm, get yourself to a more comfortable place and work your way up from there. Each step doesn't have to solve the whole problem, they just have to be in the right direction. You might benefit from (or even like) reading some of the stories here (Get Rich Slowly reader journals) - it might even help to join there and create your own journal, where you can get continuous feedback and encouragement from people who sometimes are or were in a similar situation.
posted by jacalata at 1:41 PM on January 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
But you are making them work /right now/, correct? This month, you are paying for food, shelter and essentials. If not, then the rest of what I have is on the wrong track, sorry!
I'm hoping to actually buy my own car ... about 3 months away, assuming no disasters and decent pay. Say the emergency fund is $1000: that's another two months. ... Still doesn't solve the general problem though.
You can't solve all the problems at once. So if you would take two months to put aside $1000 after you have the new car, that means you are currently saving $500/month towards the car? And it's worth more to you to not have to deal with your family than to have a savings fund. That sounds great, it means in June you could have both your own car, and an emergency fund. Is that right? So then you will be able to cover your $200 SM loan payment, starting from June, and have a little bit over for savings/not squeezing yourself to death.
I think you need to check on how much longer your SM forebearance will last, just so you know exactly what you can do with it. I think you should also get confirmation of exactly how many classes you'd have to take to get in-school deferment, because most of what I've read says half-time should count. The basic idea I had was that if you could swing two classes a quarter while keeping your current job, then in 18 months (or more likely, 2 years, assuming it takes 6 months to get admissions etc organised) you could have a degree, without having dug yourself any deeper. If you can find financial aid/pell grants as schroedinger mentions, then this should not add to your loans. At the very least, you should be able to cover it with federal loans, not private, which would come with the easier income based repayment. (Federal loans almost definitely would be deferred while you were in school part-time, even Parent Plus loans can be set down to interest only if you are doing that).
I'm really sorry if I just sound hopelessly optimistic, or I'm missing things that feel like they are blocking you from my suggestions. But basically I think it's not hopeless, and you can, if you plan it longterm, get yourself to a more comfortable place and work your way up from there. Each step doesn't have to solve the whole problem, they just have to be in the right direction. You might benefit from (or even like) reading some of the stories here (Get Rich Slowly reader journals) - it might even help to join there and create your own journal, where you can get continuous feedback and encouragement from people who sometimes are or were in a similar situation.
posted by jacalata at 1:41 PM on January 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks to the two new replies, and all the others. You've been incredibly patient and helpful, despite my sometimes terse tone. So, replies:
@Schroedinger:
Believe me, I know I can get grants thanks to where I am: I was one of the things that made the second college affordable in the first place. And all of my loans are deferred/suspended as well as they can be. The government has this wonderful thing called IBR that basically means you don't have to make payments or even accrue interest if you're under a certain line of "poor" (and I am well, well under). So either I make enough that paying back those loans isn't a problem, or I don't have to pay them back. The SM one is the bigger concern. I can buy "deferments" in three month chunks, but it's costly and I don't know what the limit is (or even if there is a hard one).
Your other points are well made, and duly noted. That was my thinking originally: a random degree may not get me a career, but it will make the crappy part-time jobs available to me better and easier to be hired for.
I'll have to think a bit about whether that's worth another few years of studying and working.
The only decent colleges around are the local (maybe), and Stout a half hour away (even more maybe). Those are pretty much my options.
@Jacalata:
This is more or less what I'm gathering from the thread. I do have the ability to save up some cash and do something with it; after car and emergency fund, maybe enough to move somewhere else. I just don't know what that is yet. Attend the not so great college here? Move to attend another college and risk not being able to get a job when I arrive? Give up on the college thing and just try to develop my skill and contacts as an Illustrator?
But obviously that's another can of worms.
On money: I appreciate what you're saying, but as I've said before, I know. My current debt is minimized and tamed as much as possible, and should I re-start college I'm not really worried about the cost of school itself (Unless it's through the roof). The "Money" I keep talking about is the money for personal survival, which is thrown into question if I move and suddenly can't get a job, or can only get minimum wage. I was scraping by on minimum a year ago, and the difference between that and $11 is the difference between misery and modest comfort/security.
Now, assuming I could find a college I wanted to go to, and assuming grants made the cost not insane, yes, I was also estimating I should be able to finish a major in about two years working part time.
Again though, it basically comes down to:
1. Is it worth two years and a manageable but substantial cost (I doubt grants will cover more than 75% of it, and then there's books, materials, etc.) just to graduate with a (mostly) useless degree?
2. If so, What useless degree is going to be the least useless?
3. If not, how the heck do I develop my own skills (this is obviously fodder for its own thread at some point)?
What I take from this thread/question in general is that doing something with my life isn't impossible, it's just going to take a lot longer. I'm sure 40-somethings reading this (if any are) will roll their eyes, but I had hoped to be entry level in SOMETHING by now; instead, it looks like I won't even be able to get my foot in the door for another 3-5 years, and that was messing with me a little. Still, I suppose that's better than being stuck where I am indefinitely. Also, I suppose two years or so isn't so bad, even if I don't get a full-fledged career out of it. Maybe I need to see this as a hybrid rather than an either-or: finish the degree for a little extra security, but don't worry about trying to tap into a full career with it.
So again, thanks for all the info. I'll leave this open another day in case anyone else wants to reply, but I think I've got most of what I'm looking for for the moment: a way to move forward.
posted by wanderingchord at 4:58 PM on January 6, 2012
@Schroedinger:
Believe me, I know I can get grants thanks to where I am: I was one of the things that made the second college affordable in the first place. And all of my loans are deferred/suspended as well as they can be. The government has this wonderful thing called IBR that basically means you don't have to make payments or even accrue interest if you're under a certain line of "poor" (and I am well, well under). So either I make enough that paying back those loans isn't a problem, or I don't have to pay them back. The SM one is the bigger concern. I can buy "deferments" in three month chunks, but it's costly and I don't know what the limit is (or even if there is a hard one).
Your other points are well made, and duly noted. That was my thinking originally: a random degree may not get me a career, but it will make the crappy part-time jobs available to me better and easier to be hired for.
I'll have to think a bit about whether that's worth another few years of studying and working.
The only decent colleges around are the local (maybe), and Stout a half hour away (even more maybe). Those are pretty much my options.
@Jacalata:
This is more or less what I'm gathering from the thread. I do have the ability to save up some cash and do something with it; after car and emergency fund, maybe enough to move somewhere else. I just don't know what that is yet. Attend the not so great college here? Move to attend another college and risk not being able to get a job when I arrive? Give up on the college thing and just try to develop my skill and contacts as an Illustrator?
But obviously that's another can of worms.
On money: I appreciate what you're saying, but as I've said before, I know. My current debt is minimized and tamed as much as possible, and should I re-start college I'm not really worried about the cost of school itself (Unless it's through the roof). The "Money" I keep talking about is the money for personal survival, which is thrown into question if I move and suddenly can't get a job, or can only get minimum wage. I was scraping by on minimum a year ago, and the difference between that and $11 is the difference between misery and modest comfort/security.
Now, assuming I could find a college I wanted to go to, and assuming grants made the cost not insane, yes, I was also estimating I should be able to finish a major in about two years working part time.
Again though, it basically comes down to:
1. Is it worth two years and a manageable but substantial cost (I doubt grants will cover more than 75% of it, and then there's books, materials, etc.) just to graduate with a (mostly) useless degree?
2. If so, What useless degree is going to be the least useless?
3. If not, how the heck do I develop my own skills (this is obviously fodder for its own thread at some point)?
What I take from this thread/question in general is that doing something with my life isn't impossible, it's just going to take a lot longer. I'm sure 40-somethings reading this (if any are) will roll their eyes, but I had hoped to be entry level in SOMETHING by now; instead, it looks like I won't even be able to get my foot in the door for another 3-5 years, and that was messing with me a little. Still, I suppose that's better than being stuck where I am indefinitely. Also, I suppose two years or so isn't so bad, even if I don't get a full-fledged career out of it. Maybe I need to see this as a hybrid rather than an either-or: finish the degree for a little extra security, but don't worry about trying to tap into a full career with it.
So again, thanks for all the info. I'll leave this open another day in case anyone else wants to reply, but I think I've got most of what I'm looking for for the moment: a way to move forward.
posted by wanderingchord at 4:58 PM on January 6, 2012
Response by poster: Thanks for the kind words Snickerdoodle. I don't think your advice would be a good fit for me though. The loans, aside for SM, will freeze indefinitely: no interest, no payments, until I'm actually making enough to easily repay them. At this point, I don't think I'm going to be able to get a career out of college: I'm just going to try for a gentle boost to make my life a little easier while I develop my career on my own. I appreciate the suggestions though.
posted by wanderingchord at 9:19 PM on January 7, 2012
posted by wanderingchord at 9:19 PM on January 7, 2012
I agree that it seems like a good idea in economic terms for you to finish your degree, but you really don't seem very personally invested in it. Reading your post, I'm not entirely sure that you want to go back, and it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself school is the right way to go. In that case, I would focus on some of the points you listed above. You'll make more money and be able to dig yourself out of debt if you can get a degree in hand. So focus on careers like accounting that are stable and have a certain financial payoff.
posted by deathpanels at 9:00 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by deathpanels at 9:00 PM on January 11, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
I've done things because I thought it would probably be a good idea, and you know what? It sucks. Do something you want to do.
posted by facetious at 7:11 PM on January 4, 2012 [4 favorites]