The Wild, Wild West(ern Europe)
December 22, 2011 4:06 PM Subscribe
What is the deal with censorship on the BBC?
I've been watching Misfits (which I cannot recommend highly enough) and am surprised at what the show is allowed to show. For instance, at some point in the second series, Nathan, who thinks that Kelly has insulted his manhood, vehemently, though comically, mocks her "fanny," saying that it's big and fat and, I think, loose or sloppy. Now I don't fully understand the connotations of fanny in the UK (I'm not even sure when to use UK and when to use England), but there is no way that would be allowed in the US, no matter how mild of a euphemism it is. Ditto with the parrellel masterbation scenes and countless other things in the show.
Is the BBC just very lax? Or are entertainment mores in the UK just very different than they are in the US?
I've been watching Misfits (which I cannot recommend highly enough) and am surprised at what the show is allowed to show. For instance, at some point in the second series, Nathan, who thinks that Kelly has insulted his manhood, vehemently, though comically, mocks her "fanny," saying that it's big and fat and, I think, loose or sloppy. Now I don't fully understand the connotations of fanny in the UK (I'm not even sure when to use UK and when to use England), but there is no way that would be allowed in the US, no matter how mild of a euphemism it is. Ditto with the parrellel masterbation scenes and countless other things in the show.
Is the BBC just very lax? Or are entertainment mores in the UK just very different than they are in the US?
Two different countries, two different cultures. A lot of what you describe is permissible on cable TV in the United States.
The British seems to enjoy bawdy humor that doesn't really translate well to Anerica's more puritanical society.
posted by dfriedman at 4:10 PM on December 22, 2011
The British seems to enjoy bawdy humor that doesn't really translate well to Anerica's more puritanical society.
posted by dfriedman at 4:10 PM on December 22, 2011
Not a UK resident, but I'm from Canada with access to both Canadian and American television. American television is most definitely sanitized, compared to Canadian tv, where swearing and partial nudity is okay.
It was actually quite shocking to return to Canada after ten years abroad and watch a show on Bravo that featured close-up shots of female genitalia.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:10 PM on December 22, 2011
It was actually quite shocking to return to Canada after ten years abroad and watch a show on Bravo that featured close-up shots of female genitalia.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:10 PM on December 22, 2011
There's a watershed at, I think, 9pm. After the watershed its assumed kids are all asleep and there are different standards, roughly HBO-esque, about what can be shown.
posted by fshgrl at 4:11 PM on December 22, 2011
posted by fshgrl at 4:11 PM on December 22, 2011
BBC (not sure about other networks) has a "Watershed" time, which I think is 9PM, before which all programming must be suitable for children, and after which, nearly anything goes-- f-bombs, the word found in Scunthorpe, and overt sexual behavior (and sex, but not aroused genitals) are allowed after that. The watershed time changes on weekends, I think.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:12 PM on December 22, 2011
posted by Sunburnt at 4:12 PM on December 22, 2011
fshgirl is right: before the watershed, everything has to be family friendly. After the watershed (9pm), anything legal goes. The burden is on parents to put their kids to bed before 9; adults can turn off something if it offends them.
I think it's a wonderful system.
posted by jb at 4:14 PM on December 22, 2011 [9 favorites]
I think it's a wonderful system.
posted by jb at 4:14 PM on December 22, 2011 [9 favorites]
Misfits is Channel 4, not BBC, which accounts for the racier content. Although the Beeb sometimes lets its hair down.
posted by WPW at 4:14 PM on December 22, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by WPW at 4:14 PM on December 22, 2011 [4 favorites]
Sorry, to add some detail: Channel 4 is a quasi-public, quasi-commercial network with an operational brief to reflect cultural diversity in its programming and innovate. This is distinct from the BBC's two "national" services which, although sometimes daring, have more constraints because of their status and governance, and ITV, which is purely commercial and, by and large, shit.
posted by WPW at 4:19 PM on December 22, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by WPW at 4:19 PM on December 22, 2011 [4 favorites]
also, if you're curious
UK = United Kingdom of Great Britain (the island that includes the three countries of England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland.
England is a part of the UK, but not the whole. It's fine to refer to England when you only mean that bit of the UK, eg: the 17th century was the period of the most enclosures in England (a statement which does not include Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland). It's offensive to use England as a synonym for UK, as in the statement "David Cameron is the Prime minister of England" - It's like calling the USA "California" or calling the Netherlands "Holland" - or most offensive of all, calling Canada "Ontario".
posted by jb at 4:21 PM on December 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
UK = United Kingdom of Great Britain (the island that includes the three countries of England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland.
England is a part of the UK, but not the whole. It's fine to refer to England when you only mean that bit of the UK, eg: the 17th century was the period of the most enclosures in England (a statement which does not include Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland). It's offensive to use England as a synonym for UK, as in the statement "David Cameron is the Prime minister of England" - It's like calling the USA "California" or calling the Netherlands "Holland" - or most offensive of all, calling Canada "Ontario".
posted by jb at 4:21 PM on December 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
Misfits is Channel 4, not BBC
BBC America shows lots of programmes that were made for commercial TV channels in the UK. It always surprises me when I'm in the States and see things on BBC America that I know were never shown on the Beeb at home.
posted by essexjan at 4:26 PM on December 22, 2011
BBC America shows lots of programmes that were made for commercial TV channels in the UK. It always surprises me when I'm in the States and see things on BBC America that I know were never shown on the Beeb at home.
posted by essexjan at 4:26 PM on December 22, 2011
Response by poster: So, is the BBC (and Channel 4, which I mistakenly assumed stood for BBC 4) English only or is is produced and broadcast throughout the UK? And, while I'm at it, is fanny an owner-friendly, cue euphemism, as fanny is for buttocks in the US, or is it darker?
posted by rtimmel at 4:31 PM on December 22, 2011
posted by rtimmel at 4:31 PM on December 22, 2011
In the UK, fanny is a vulgar term for vagina.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 4:33 PM on December 22, 2011
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 4:33 PM on December 22, 2011
there is no way that would be allowed in the US ...
are entertainment mores in the UK just very different than they are in the US?
I'm in the US and I completely disagree with your description of American standards. I wouldn't be surprised to see that on an American sitcom (with either meaning of "fanny"). For instance, there's an episode of Seinfeld where Elaine does a fake, in-person application for a restaurant job hoping they'll turn her down because her breasts appear small, since she thinks the restaurant only hires women with big breasts. There's an episode of Arrested Development where Gob repeatedly insults his sister Lindsey for having small breasts and tells her to get plastic surgery. There are many, many jokes about Kitty's breasts on Arrested Development (how they're so much bigger after she got plastic surgery). There's an episode of the American version of The Office where a major plotline is all about the fact that Jan has much bigger breasts after plastic surgery, and we even see a very clear shot of Michael holding Jan's breasts. Seinfeld, The Office, and Arrested Development have many references to penis size. I can't think of any vagina jokes, but I don't think that's because of censorship; I just think people find penises funnier for whatever reason. Seinfeld, Arrested Development, and The Office all have a lot of implied sex, including masturbation, various kinds of sex acts, and orgasms. I've recently watched all 50+ episodes of Arrested Development and I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single episode that doesn't contain an extremely lewd sexual innuendo. Seinfeld is famous for having a whole episode entirely about masturbation, another episode mostly about orgasms, another episode with a plotline about weird sex moves, etc. The Office and Arrested Development even make light of rape, both against women and men. (Note that the 3 shows I mentioned were/are on Fox and NBC, not on cable.)
I'm not even sure when to use UK and when to use England
Wikipedia: The UK "is a country in its own right and consists of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales."
posted by John Cohen at 4:38 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
are entertainment mores in the UK just very different than they are in the US?
I'm in the US and I completely disagree with your description of American standards. I wouldn't be surprised to see that on an American sitcom (with either meaning of "fanny"). For instance, there's an episode of Seinfeld where Elaine does a fake, in-person application for a restaurant job hoping they'll turn her down because her breasts appear small, since she thinks the restaurant only hires women with big breasts. There's an episode of Arrested Development where Gob repeatedly insults his sister Lindsey for having small breasts and tells her to get plastic surgery. There are many, many jokes about Kitty's breasts on Arrested Development (how they're so much bigger after she got plastic surgery). There's an episode of the American version of The Office where a major plotline is all about the fact that Jan has much bigger breasts after plastic surgery, and we even see a very clear shot of Michael holding Jan's breasts. Seinfeld, The Office, and Arrested Development have many references to penis size. I can't think of any vagina jokes, but I don't think that's because of censorship; I just think people find penises funnier for whatever reason. Seinfeld, Arrested Development, and The Office all have a lot of implied sex, including masturbation, various kinds of sex acts, and orgasms. I've recently watched all 50+ episodes of Arrested Development and I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single episode that doesn't contain an extremely lewd sexual innuendo. Seinfeld is famous for having a whole episode entirely about masturbation, another episode mostly about orgasms, another episode with a plotline about weird sex moves, etc. The Office and Arrested Development even make light of rape, both against women and men. (Note that the 3 shows I mentioned were/are on Fox and NBC, not on cable.)
I'm not even sure when to use UK and when to use England
Wikipedia: The UK "is a country in its own right and consists of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales."
posted by John Cohen at 4:38 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
BBC America shows lots of programmes that were made for commercial TV channels in the UK. It always surprises me when I'm in the States and see things on BBC America that I know were never shown on the Beeb at home.
BBC America aired Canada's Trailer Park Boys which was great except they edited the language (originally they were going to air it unedited after midnight but for some reason backed off). Many Rickisms were ruined by BBC America's editing what the voiceover woman on Channel4 calls coarse language.
And, while I'm at it, is fanny an owner-friendly, cue euphemism, as fanny is for buttocks in the US, or is it darker?
I learned what fanny meant in the UK on The Office (UK):
BBC America aired Canada's Trailer Park Boys which was great except they edited the language (originally they were going to air it unedited after midnight but for some reason backed off). Many Rickisms were ruined by BBC America's editing what the voiceover woman on Channel4 calls coarse language.
And, while I'm at it, is fanny an owner-friendly, cue euphemism, as fanny is for buttocks in the US, or is it darker?
I learned what fanny meant in the UK on The Office (UK):
Keith: A lot of crime in America.posted by birdherder at 4:39 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Dawn: Right. Well, I'll be careful.
Keith: Word of advice: keep your traveller's cheques in a bum-bag.
Dawn: Thanks. I- I'll buy one.
Keith: Well, when you get there?
Dawn: Yeah.
Keith: Word of warning, then: out there they call them fanny packs. 'Cause fanny means your arse over there... (pause) not your minge.
Famous Monster is correct. Although it's not the most offensive term out there.
BBC and Channel 4 are both nationwide (although there is a Welsh version of C4 called S4C), IE UK-wide, not confined to England.
Just to be confusing ... there IS a BBC4, but it's a digital service, as is BBC3. But Channel 4 is different and, like BBC1, BBC2, ITV and Channel 5, a "terrestrial" national service. Although the distinction is increasingly meaningly as all channels are now digital and the analogue services are being phased out.
posted by WPW at 4:41 PM on December 22, 2011
BBC and Channel 4 are both nationwide (although there is a Welsh version of C4 called S4C), IE UK-wide, not confined to England.
Just to be confusing ... there IS a BBC4, but it's a digital service, as is BBC3. But Channel 4 is different and, like BBC1, BBC2, ITV and Channel 5, a "terrestrial" national service. Although the distinction is increasingly meaningly as all channels are now digital and the analogue services are being phased out.
posted by WPW at 4:41 PM on December 22, 2011
It always surprises me when I'm in the States and see things on BBC America that I know were never shown on the Beeb at home.
It's also a cultural extension of how the Masterpiece Theatre umbrella gloms together every costume drama, which means lots of Americans think Downton Abbey is from the Beeb.
Anyway, back on topic: the 9pm watershed rules have gradually been relaxed over the past 20 years. I can vaguely remember when the writers of Drop The Dead Donkey got away with a totally unexpected (and very funny) 'you cunt!' in the mid-90s, at around 11pm. Swearing and nudity and sex on the main channels in the post-watershed hours is not uncommon, especially on the edgier channels like BBC2 and C4. Misfits is actually broadcast on E4, which is a digital-only side-channel for C4, and has even more room to challenge boundaries.
This has also meant that shows like The Sopranos and Sex In The City (and more recent HBO/Showtime/Starz co-productions) have been shown on British networks unexpurgated, as opposed to the syndicated versions on non-premium networks in the US.
posted by holgate at 4:47 PM on December 22, 2011
It's also a cultural extension of how the Masterpiece Theatre umbrella gloms together every costume drama, which means lots of Americans think Downton Abbey is from the Beeb.
Anyway, back on topic: the 9pm watershed rules have gradually been relaxed over the past 20 years. I can vaguely remember when the writers of Drop The Dead Donkey got away with a totally unexpected (and very funny) 'you cunt!' in the mid-90s, at around 11pm. Swearing and nudity and sex on the main channels in the post-watershed hours is not uncommon, especially on the edgier channels like BBC2 and C4. Misfits is actually broadcast on E4, which is a digital-only side-channel for C4, and has even more room to challenge boundaries.
This has also meant that shows like The Sopranos and Sex In The City (and more recent HBO/Showtime/Starz co-productions) have been shown on British networks unexpurgated, as opposed to the syndicated versions on non-premium networks in the US.
posted by holgate at 4:47 PM on December 22, 2011
The BBC is broadcast throughout the UK, with some local regional programming (e.g. Welsh and Gaelic language programmes, local news/weather) depending where you are. The regional programmes are generally produced within the regions they cover (East, Midlands, Yorkshire and so on). Channel 4 is also widely broadcast in much the same way.
Also, for what it's worth, "fanny" is an older term and might be considered pretty tame by modern British standards. Certainly I wouldn't be shocked to hear it pre-watershed.
Additional interesting data point: many BBC productions have a limited number of words (along the sort of bullshit/crap/bitch line of offensiveness) which they can use before the watershed, so long as they only use them once or twice. Otherwise they are generally very good at sticking to the rules, lest the wrath of OFCOM fall upon them.
Final comment: if you find Nathan shocking, just wait until you meet Rudy.
posted by fight or flight at 4:51 PM on December 22, 2011
Also, for what it's worth, "fanny" is an older term and might be considered pretty tame by modern British standards. Certainly I wouldn't be shocked to hear it pre-watershed.
Additional interesting data point: many BBC productions have a limited number of words (along the sort of bullshit/crap/bitch line of offensiveness) which they can use before the watershed, so long as they only use them once or twice. Otherwise they are generally very good at sticking to the rules, lest the wrath of OFCOM fall upon them.
Final comment: if you find Nathan shocking, just wait until you meet Rudy.
posted by fight or flight at 4:51 PM on December 22, 2011
Well, if nothing else, this thread makes it easy to pick the Americans who've never seen Misfits. "Fanny" is probably the least-potentially-cross-culturally-offensive thing on the show.
It's wonderful, and the third series has managed to be better than the first 2. And yes, Rudy is an even better replacement than Nathan ;-)
posted by Pinback at 4:57 PM on December 22, 2011
It's wonderful, and the third series has managed to be better than the first 2. And yes, Rudy is an even better replacement than Nathan ;-)
posted by Pinback at 4:57 PM on December 22, 2011
And here's a sample of Ofcom's code covering broadcasting standards in relation to under-18s and the 9pm watershed. For late-night scheduling, broadcasters have a much looser rein.
posted by holgate at 5:01 PM on December 22, 2011
posted by holgate at 5:01 PM on December 22, 2011
And, while I'm at it, is fanny an owner-friendly, cue euphemism, as fanny is for buttocks in the US, or is it darker?
It's more lewd than offensive. It's the kind of word comedy shows like 2 pints of lager and a packets of crisps or Gimme Gimme Gimme might use to portray to speech of lower–class women. The same word is still used as a name for some things, of in the phrase "fanny around". There's really not much shock value in it. Titterworthy at most.
posted by Jehan at 5:04 PM on December 22, 2011
It's more lewd than offensive. It's the kind of word comedy shows like 2 pints of lager and a packets of crisps or Gimme Gimme Gimme might use to portray to speech of lower–class women. The same word is still used as a name for some things, of in the phrase "fanny around". There's really not much shock value in it. Titterworthy at most.
posted by Jehan at 5:04 PM on December 22, 2011
Response by poster: John Cohen - I think you kind of make my point. In the US, comic remarks about big or small breasts on TV are fine, comic remarks about small and large penises are dicier, but OK, but remarks about vaginas are not. Talk of masterbation is OK, but Misfits has fairly long scenes that I cannot imagine working in the US. Also, as another example, an early episode had a fairly graphic sex scene (SPOILER ALERT) between a person in their twenties and one in their eighties. That would never fly in the US. I guess my question is whether Misfits is ground-breakingly permissive or if British sensibilies are just different than in the US, and so it is not that big of a deal.
posted by rtimmel at 5:06 PM on December 22, 2011
posted by rtimmel at 5:06 PM on December 22, 2011
The BBC is government-operated, very roughly analogous to PBS in the US. And PBS shows some bad stuff. It sounds funny to say, because we think of PBS as so highbrow. But every once in a whole they broadcast something like "I, Claudius" and then all bets are off. Because they have no one to censor them, and if they think it should air, it airs.
US TV censorship happens to over-the-air networks because
a) they can be fined by the FCC
and
b) they are advertiser-funded, and it only takes a few prudes making a stink to make advertisers nervous.
As noted above, you could definitely say "fanny" and a whole lot more on HBO. it's nothing specific about US culture (which manages to get stereotyped as both too puritanical *and* too crude and sex-obsessed), it's all about how over-the-air, commercial TV networks work.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:11 PM on December 22, 2011
US TV censorship happens to over-the-air networks because
a) they can be fined by the FCC
and
b) they are advertiser-funded, and it only takes a few prudes making a stink to make advertisers nervous.
As noted above, you could definitely say "fanny" and a whole lot more on HBO. it's nothing specific about US culture (which manages to get stereotyped as both too puritanical *and* too crude and sex-obsessed), it's all about how over-the-air, commercial TV networks work.
posted by drjimmy11 at 5:11 PM on December 22, 2011
I guess my question is whether Misfits is ground-breakingly permissive
It's very much an E4 show -- and it represents a similar sensiblity to Skins, which has been running since 2007.
posted by holgate at 5:13 PM on December 22, 2011
It's very much an E4 show -- and it represents a similar sensiblity to Skins, which has been running since 2007.
posted by holgate at 5:13 PM on December 22, 2011
In the US, comic remarks about big or small breasts on TV are fine, comic remarks about small and large penises are dicier, but OK, but remarks about vaginas are not.
Nope. There's the whole Mulva episode of Seinfeld, and in other shows I've heard women talking about (their words) their own cooters, and... have you never seen Family Guy?
Yeah, I'd expect that UK tv is more permissive about sex and swearing. But not to the degree you're thinking.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:15 PM on December 22, 2011
Nope. There's the whole Mulva episode of Seinfeld, and in other shows I've heard women talking about (their words) their own cooters, and... have you never seen Family Guy?
Yeah, I'd expect that UK tv is more permissive about sex and swearing. But not to the degree you're thinking.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:15 PM on December 22, 2011
After the watershed (9pm), anything legal goes.
This isn't really true for the BBC, who are extremely sensitive about generating complaints from the public. All on screen nudity is in an artistic or educational context, i.e. no porn. Violent scenes are possible, but again not commonly "gratuitous violence". On top of that, James Naughtie aside, it's very rare to hear the word "cunt" on the BBC, or indeed any of the main TV channels.
If you really want to understand how and why the BBC moderates its content, it published an quite in-depth report in 2009:
Taste, Standards and the BBC Public attitudes to morality, values and behaviour in UK broadcasting.
posted by roofus at 5:20 PM on December 22, 2011
This isn't really true for the BBC, who are extremely sensitive about generating complaints from the public. All on screen nudity is in an artistic or educational context, i.e. no porn. Violent scenes are possible, but again not commonly "gratuitous violence". On top of that, James Naughtie aside, it's very rare to hear the word "cunt" on the BBC, or indeed any of the main TV channels.
If you really want to understand how and why the BBC moderates its content, it published an quite in-depth report in 2009:
Taste, Standards and the BBC Public attitudes to morality, values and behaviour in UK broadcasting.
posted by roofus at 5:20 PM on December 22, 2011
In the US, comic remarks about big or small breasts on TV are fine, comic remarks about small and large penises are dicier, but OK, but remarks about vaginas are not.
You're not looking hard enough. I am 99.99% certain there has been material in either Family Guy or American Dad in that exact vein.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:34 PM on December 22, 2011
You're not looking hard enough. I am 99.99% certain there has been material in either Family Guy or American Dad in that exact vein.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:34 PM on December 22, 2011
NYT article about the new wave of vagina humor on American TV
posted by neroli at 5:39 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by neroli at 5:39 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ah, yes. This episode, specifically. (I'm sure there are many others.)
STEWIE: None for me, thanks; it's gonna go straight to my vagina. That's what girls worry about, right? Having big vaginas?posted by Sys Rq at 5:40 PM on December 22, 2011
My uneducated opinion is that "fanny" is kind of like "pussy" -- but NOT like "cunt". Pretty dicey, but there are even harsher terms.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:44 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:44 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I love Misfits. The sex scenes are as graphic as anything on HBO or Showtime and the frequent talk about sex is much raunchier than TrueBlood, for example.
posted by k8t at 5:47 PM on December 22, 2011
posted by k8t at 5:47 PM on December 22, 2011
John Cohen - I think you kind of make my point. In the US, comic remarks about big or small breasts on TV are fine, comic remarks about small and large penises are dicier, but OK, but remarks about vaginas are not.
That wasn't my point. As I said, I don't think sitcom writers are holding back from making vagina jokes because the censors won't let them. (Also, I was assuming that you weren't aware of "fanny" meaning "vagina" in Britain, since you said you weren't sure of the meaning.) American joke writers make penis and breast jokes because they want to make viewers laugh. People laugh at penises and breasts and butts because they can be visible through clothing, and they have various amusing shapes and sizes. Vaginas, as more private organs, simply don't provide as much fodder for comedy. There clearly isn't a taboo against genitals (penises), and there doesn't seem to be a taboo against making fun of women's bodies or sexuality (there are jokes about breasts, about women being overweight or underweight, about women having sex or masturbating, etc.).
And even if you want to narrow this down to being just about American standards with vagina jokes, well, there are plenty of vagina jokes on Arrested Development. In one episode, Tobias and Lindsay are having a fight, and Tobias notices his daughter walking in on them while he's mid-sentence, so he changes his sentence to be: "You stupid country-music loving woman!" In another episode, Lindsey says: "I need a tube of vag—" then the teenagers walk in and Lindsey changes it to: "vegetable paste" (but with "vegetable" mispronounced so the first syllable like the beginning of "vaginal"). There are a lot of jokes about Lucille, the aging mom, needing to save up every drop of moisture in her body before she has sex, which is obviously a vaginal reference.
posted by John Cohen at 5:47 PM on December 22, 2011
That wasn't my point. As I said, I don't think sitcom writers are holding back from making vagina jokes because the censors won't let them. (Also, I was assuming that you weren't aware of "fanny" meaning "vagina" in Britain, since you said you weren't sure of the meaning.) American joke writers make penis and breast jokes because they want to make viewers laugh. People laugh at penises and breasts and butts because they can be visible through clothing, and they have various amusing shapes and sizes. Vaginas, as more private organs, simply don't provide as much fodder for comedy. There clearly isn't a taboo against genitals (penises), and there doesn't seem to be a taboo against making fun of women's bodies or sexuality (there are jokes about breasts, about women being overweight or underweight, about women having sex or masturbating, etc.).
And even if you want to narrow this down to being just about American standards with vagina jokes, well, there are plenty of vagina jokes on Arrested Development. In one episode, Tobias and Lindsay are having a fight, and Tobias notices his daughter walking in on them while he's mid-sentence, so he changes his sentence to be: "You stupid country-music loving woman!" In another episode, Lindsey says: "I need a tube of vag—" then the teenagers walk in and Lindsey changes it to: "vegetable paste" (but with "vegetable" mispronounced so the first syllable like the beginning of "vaginal"). There are a lot of jokes about Lucille, the aging mom, needing to save up every drop of moisture in her body before she has sex, which is obviously a vaginal reference.
posted by John Cohen at 5:47 PM on December 22, 2011
There was an episode of 2 Broke Girls recently with a TON of vagina jokes and references. An article and MeFi post about this.
So your premise is definitely off, vagina jokes are not only allowed on US television but have been used quite a bit this season.
posted by wildcrdj at 6:59 PM on December 22, 2011
So your premise is definitely off, vagina jokes are not only allowed on US television but have been used quite a bit this season.
posted by wildcrdj at 6:59 PM on December 22, 2011
I think you have to understand that different cultures consider different things to be unacceptable. I was gobsmacked, on coming to the US, to see babies' bottoms fuzzed out of programs.
The UK has a "watershed" time (9pm) before which standards are tighter, as there may be kids watching. So there is no universal censorship standard. Some scenes with sex and violence that would be unacceptable before 9pm are acceptable if shown later. Language is also censored only when it is considered outrageous or gratuitously foul-mouthed. I find it disconcerting to watch UK TV programs in the US - often, so much dialog has been blanked out that it is difficult to make sense of the action. The humor is often lost, as much of the British comedic sense is centered around the embarrassment that ensures from exposure of bodily parts or bodily functions.
British censorship is generally based on the notion that only gratuitous violence or pornographic sex is off-limits. In the UK, extreme violence - particularly when it is shown from the perpetrator POV - is considered unacceptable. In the US, it seems totally acceptable to let the camera linger as someone eviscerates their victim. In the UK, people's bodies are no big deal - we all have them and we've all seen what people look like naked. So nudity - if considered appropriate for the scene, rather than salacious - is OK.
Europeans are generally less prudish than Americans - we will strip in communal changing rooms and at the doctor, whereas my (female) US doctor always gives me a gown "to cover my modesty." Europeans (including the British) use terms that are representative, rather than the euphemisms used in the USA, and just don't get that hung up over language. I still have to hide a giggle as I ask for directions to the "restroom" - a room that is far from restful for women, given the frequent standing in line.
posted by Susurration at 10:39 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
The UK has a "watershed" time (9pm) before which standards are tighter, as there may be kids watching. So there is no universal censorship standard. Some scenes with sex and violence that would be unacceptable before 9pm are acceptable if shown later. Language is also censored only when it is considered outrageous or gratuitously foul-mouthed. I find it disconcerting to watch UK TV programs in the US - often, so much dialog has been blanked out that it is difficult to make sense of the action. The humor is often lost, as much of the British comedic sense is centered around the embarrassment that ensures from exposure of bodily parts or bodily functions.
British censorship is generally based on the notion that only gratuitous violence or pornographic sex is off-limits. In the UK, extreme violence - particularly when it is shown from the perpetrator POV - is considered unacceptable. In the US, it seems totally acceptable to let the camera linger as someone eviscerates their victim. In the UK, people's bodies are no big deal - we all have them and we've all seen what people look like naked. So nudity - if considered appropriate for the scene, rather than salacious - is OK.
Europeans are generally less prudish than Americans - we will strip in communal changing rooms and at the doctor, whereas my (female) US doctor always gives me a gown "to cover my modesty." Europeans (including the British) use terms that are representative, rather than the euphemisms used in the USA, and just don't get that hung up over language. I still have to hide a giggle as I ask for directions to the "restroom" - a room that is far from restful for women, given the frequent standing in line.
posted by Susurration at 10:39 PM on December 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you're interested in what is and isn't acceptable in British tv, you should look at Ofcom's guidance, which the BBC also follow (although I can't remember whether Ofcom police the BBC on this or not).
In contrast to the States, we have a much stricter policy on violence e.g. Enter the Dragon is cut even after the watershed, and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles on UK tv.
posted by plonkee at 6:12 AM on December 23, 2011
In contrast to the States, we have a much stricter policy on violence e.g. Enter the Dragon is cut even after the watershed, and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles on UK tv.
posted by plonkee at 6:12 AM on December 23, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, fanny means vagina.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 4:08 PM on December 22, 2011 [3 favorites]