what is wrong with my car & how much will it cost me?
November 26, 2011 7:00 PM   Subscribe

Car has 2 mystery problems. Hoping to get a sense of what I might be looking at before I put myself at the mercy of the local mechanics. Details to follow.

1). When I turn the wheel allll the way to the left (think u-turn), the wheels "slip". Or at least that's how I'm interpreting the physical feeling transmitted from the car: like...suddenly the wheels aren't pointing quite the way they should be in the middle of a tricky turn? It's happened a couple times, and I can tell you it's dangerous at high speeds. I asked one of the mechanics at the tire store near my house, as I was walking by one day, and he said check the transmission, not the joints, everyone else says that's a nutso response. What do you think?

2). My back seat passenger floorboard has been wet since august despite my best efforts to dry it. I see nothing when I look under the car. Is there a fluid that passes under there that might be leaking? I know my oil's been going down faster than seems right, but it just feels wet, not oily. Ideas?

Thanks :) I'm rotten with all things mechanical (including blenders & hair dryers) so going to the mechanic's is like rolling over & showing my throat to lions. Some idea of what might come up ahead of time makes it go a little more smoothly. Bonus points if you can ballpark repair costs. It's a 2002 Toyota Echo if that helps. Also, if I will need a particular type of mechani for the predicted repair, that would be handy information as well.
posted by Ys to Travel & Transportation (12 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Possible idea for 2), the wet floor in the back seat. We had a similar situation with a 2004 Toyota Camry one summer. We incorrectly assumed it was related to having just driven through high water, but the floorboard (like yours, on the passenger side) kept getting wet. Day after day. Vacuum it dry, and the next day it would be sopping wet again.

Turned out to be air conditioning condensation. The mechanic who diagnosed it said he'd seen it before: there's a tube that's supposed to drip condensed water out below the engine, but guys who work in the pit at the oil change place (in our case, Jiffy Lube) don't like being dripped on, so they will sometimes push the end of the tube up into whatever it sticks down from. If they forget to let it out when they're finished, like Jiffy Lube did, the water finds a new escape route. It was somehow leaving the front passenger floor dry, but coming up under the front passenger seat and soaking the carpeting behind it.

I hope this helps!
posted by Snerd at 7:19 PM on November 26, 2011


2: This is likely to be the drain holes in the rear door (underneath the door when you open it). The door is likely filling up with water and running into the car.

This is likely to be water and not directly car/engine related (ie not engine oil or coolant). The air conditioning draining sounds possible. Does your car drip water underneath it if you leave the air con on for long periods (ie idling in the driveway). If not, it is going somewhere.

1: 'When I turn the wheel allll the way to the left (think u-turn)' does not match with 'it'd dangerous at high speeds'.

If you have the wheel all the way over for this to happen, then you won't be able to replicate that at high speed. Which is it? is the symptom the same in both instances (once we clear that up).

Wheels 'slipping' is rotational. Do you mean like wheelspin? Or do you mean the angle the wheel is at has changed? Can this be verified by someone from outside the car - can you drive and replicate the symptom with someone inside the radius of the u-turn watching the wheel?

Could be steering rack mounts, suspension bushes or steering trackrod joints.
posted by Brockles at 7:26 PM on November 26, 2011


I'm not understanding #1. It sounds like you're describing understeer, where if you turn the wheel too much for the speed of the car, it refuses to turn as fast as you want.

Does it only happen with the wheel full over? You're unlikely to want to do that at high speed, right?
posted by ctmf at 7:32 PM on November 26, 2011


When I turn the wheel allll the way to the left (think u-turn), the wheels "slip". Or at least that's how I'm interpreting the physical feeling transmitted from the car: like...suddenly the wheels aren't pointing quite the way they should be in the middle of a tricky turn?

If I am understanding this correctly, it sounds like the power steering is flaking out under high load (full lock turning).

If that is the case, then you need more power steering fluid, or to replace what you do have. Or the power steering pump is bad.

Also, as a rule, don't hold the wheels at full lock for more than a couple seconds.

Other possibilities include broken or bent front suspension/control components, or a bad CV joint.

We'd need a better description to be more accurate.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:48 PM on November 26, 2011


If the feeling is like the tire is tripping over itself, almost like the car is pushing sideways over the wheel, rather then rotating with the wheel. (Hard to explain exactly). Then it could well be the wheel bearings are in need of replacement.

You can check quite easily by jacking up the wheel, so it's not touching the ground, grabbing the top of the wheel (12 O'clock) and wiggling it towards and against you. If it feels loose, you need new bearings. Be very careful not to wiggle the car off the jack! If it's particularly bad, you'll get a clunk when you turn medium to sharp corners.

On the wet issue-- I agree with Snerd, sounds like the condensation from the air conditioning is pooling there. Leave your A/C off for a few days and see if the problem goes away. Friend had the same problem in his Honda CRV.
posted by Static Vagabond at 8:23 PM on November 26, 2011


The Echo is known for understeer ("pushing") which, as ctmf pointed out, is likely the phenomenon you are experiencing when the wheel is turned almost to lock at low speed and at lesser steering angles at higher speeds.
posted by bz at 9:54 PM on November 26, 2011


#2:

Besides the other ideas here, it could be a clogged drain line in the sunroof gutter (assuming the car has a sunroof).

In general, the rear passenger footwell is the lowest point in the interior and is where water will pool if it's leaking into the cabin from ANYWHERE. It's not coming UP from a hole below that floorboard.
posted by intermod at 10:08 PM on November 26, 2011


For the steering thing, it could be a number of different things.

1- Has it always been this way, or is it a change? Because when the wheels are turned the relative angles of the wheels change. If you are going straight, the wheels are parallel to each other. If you are turning, they become not parallel because of the geometry of the suspension. It isn't a linear thing, especially at speed.

2- It could be understeer as mentioned above. This is the car not going the direction it is pointed, but preferring to continue going forward. (The opposite is oversteer, where the back end of the car wants to whip around in the direction of the turn.) This can be caused by tires that are worn, or just a bad choice for that vehicle and not as "sticky" as the car is expecting. Can also be due to bad alignment or worn alignment parts. If the alignment in the front is too toe-in, the car will tend to oversteer. It will be "twitchy" and dive into turns. If it is too toe-out, it will wander and feel mushy, requiring more steering movement to get the result you are looking for. The alignment of the rear wheels will have similar effects.

(If it only happens on left hand turns, it would mean that something on one side of the car is "off". Try rotating the tires left-to-right and seeing if the effect changes. If it switches to right hand turns, you've got a bad tire. If it doesn't, you've got a suspension problem. Could be something like a swaybar has gotten disconnected.)

3- I kind of doubt that it is mechanical slipping in the transmission. The differential can't slip, or the car wouldn't go at all. If parts were broken and slipping out of place on a turn, I have to think it would be an obvious and violent moment. If it was the transmission slipping, it would feel like a lack of power rather than a lack of control.

4- This one is probably unlikely, but maybe the steering rack has gotten loose? You would test for this by standing outside the car and turning the steering wheel gently. You should see the wheels move a little, with no play or dead spots in the steering wheel. If there is, especially with any clunking or straining, and especially if it's more than a couple of degrees of movement, you've got an unsafe car.
posted by gjc at 8:02 AM on November 27, 2011


A good way to check on the veracity of a mechanics claim is to take it to more than one place and get a written estimate than compare. Of course don't tell the mechanics you have seen anyone else or gotten a diagnosis to preserve the integrity of the method. Keep doing this until you get at least two mechanics that tell you the same thing. Chances are those two are honest and probably decent mechanics. In my experience most mechanics are, but they will tell you to fix things that may be wrong or going wrong but don't have to be replaced yet, and then people thing they are getting ripped off, when in reality fixing problems before they become disabling is a much better financial strategy than waiting till it actually falls off. Also don't take it too big chain repair places like midas or the dealership. I actually think the smaller independent shops are more honest. Also a Toyota Echo is a pretty simple car so that is working for you. I would really recommend you go and take the mechanic for a test drive and replicate the #1 problem to see if it is just a car thing or something actually wrong. The #2 problem is likely to be a pretty easy fix and nothing too bad, but you want to get it fixed before you get a mildew problem or a rust problem which are a much bigger deal to fix.
posted by bartonlong at 8:45 AM on November 27, 2011


Response by poster: re: water: I do not use AC (for which my passengers hate me). Would the AC tube explanation still be something to look into in such circumstances?

re: slippage/speed: Picture slowing down from 60 & committing to a u-turn before it occurs to you that you are going WAY too fast for this to be safe. I don't know how fast I was going, but I do know that I was going faster than you would normally take a u-turn and that the Oh Shit I felt when the tires "slipped" could have easily been the last thing I ever felt. It has subsequently pulled this trick pretty reliably at much more reasonable u-turn speeds. Also, "like your car tripped" is actually a pretty good description of what this thing feel like. This is a new thing; I've had the car about 8 years & this summer is when it first cropped up.

Thanks for the great ideas, guys. I have a friend who can look into some of these for me.
posted by Ys at 3:51 PM on November 27, 2011


Ok, the U-turn at too high a speed is understeer - possibly meaning your tyres are now worn and so being more susceptible to loss of front end grip again.

Check your tyre thread depth on all our tyres, but especially the fronts. It is likely you are just more aware of the issue now you have experienced it in an extreme case.
posted by Brockles at 4:11 PM on November 27, 2011


re: water: I do not use AC (for which my passengers hate me). Would the AC tube explanation still be something to look into in such circumstances?

AC condensation will also result from using the defroster. If you don't use the defroster either, then AC condensation isn't a likely cause. As a couple others have said, a plugged drain hole elsewhere in the body could cause water to divert into the passenger compartment and collect on the rear floor.
posted by Snerd at 7:35 PM on November 27, 2011


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