Tags:
toilet
etiquette

Leaving the toilet seat up?
June 20, 2005 5:50 PM Subscribe

My g/f received a call from her roommate this morning - the roommate got all Emily Post because I, having spent the night last night, left the toilet seat up. The exact words were, "he doesn't pay rent."

This is the second time, in three months I've been with the g/f, that I've done this. (The other time was, again, middle of the night, after helping move out the roommate's ex, and mentioned while I was cooking everyone breakfast.) Conversely, the roommate leaves cereal bowls--among general clutter--about the place, has never once cleaned the bathroom despite eating an extremely high-fiber diet, and her puppy regular pees on my g/f's stuff. My question: in these days when we're all equal, why can't everyone just move the seat to where they need it? (followup: When the roommate confronts me next time I'm there, what is the proper response?)

posted by notsnot to human relations (116 comments total)

The proper response: "Oh man, I am so sorry. I'm only human, but I promise to try really hard to never do it again."

Then: try really, really, really hard to remember not to do it again.

Have you ever sat in a bowl of toilet water because the seat was up IN YOUR OWN HOME WHERE THE TOILET SEAT HAVE . It sucks. I'd be pissed off too.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 5:56 PM on June 20, 2005

Do not rise to the bait. Pointing out her shortcomings will do no good, and you really don't want to make an enemy of your girlfriend's roommate. Here's what you do:
1. Take a deep breath
2. Suck it up and say you're sorry and it won't happen again
3. Try to make sure it doesn't
4. Bask in the knowledge that you took the high ground
posted by cali at 5:58 PM on June 20, 2005

Arg. Sorry, my passion on the subject messed with my grammatical abilities. Here's hoping you get the message, though. "He doesn't pay rent" is a silly way to broach the subject, but if the roommate has spent her entire life with the toilet seat down it can be extremely disruptive to suddenly have some guy come in and mess with your reality. If you were a friend of mine and you did that, I'd think it was just thoughtless and get over it. If you were my roommmate's boyfriend, I'd be really pissed.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 5:59 PM on June 20, 2005

Apologize and put the toilet seat down.

Your girlfriend can discuss her roommates shortcomings with her at some other time as a separate issue if she so chooses.
posted by duck at 6:02 PM on June 20, 2005

You are a guest, and as such, should respect the rules of the hosts, including your gf's roommate. It's just polite. If you went to someone's house, and they asked you to remove your shoes, you would, wouldn't you? And if you forgot, you would apologize and remove your shoes then. And also, for girls, sitting on a toilet that lacks the seat is a rather nasty surprise! Guys are more conditioned to check before they sit I would guess. As for next time, remember you are there as a guest, don't make a big deal of it, and just apologize.
posted by orangskye at 6:03 PM on June 20, 2005

Your answer: because three out of the four top uses for toilets require the seat to be down, and if men put it down when they pee (or learn to aim better) that's the minimum amount of hand-seat contact required.
posted by bonaldi at 6:08 PM on June 20, 2005

The roommate's ex-b/f left it up all the time. And I'm pretty consciensious about it most of the time; it's in the middle of the night when, well, she's lucky I remembered to lift the seat before releasing.

It's not an etiquette contest between the boyfriends. If I was a betting man, I would guess that he got an earful everytime he left it up, too. But the ONLY time it really matters that you leave the seat up is the middle of the night, because females who aren't used to checking might go in there in a groggy state, assume that the seat is down, and end up sitting in a bowlful of cold water where shit normally resides.
posted by 23skidoo at 6:11 PM on June 20, 2005

Irritating, but try to keep it to yourself.
Just apologise and remember to put it down next time.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 6:14 PM on June 20, 2005

Carefully, carefully train yourself to put the seat down. You will be admired and appreciated for that simple act. It shows thoughtfulness, courtesy, maturity and manliness. Half a second is all it takes There is no other small action in the world that can bring you so much gratitude.
posted by trii at 6:17 PM on June 20, 2005

Ok, I don't get this I have sat in a bowl full of water argument before. Guys have to check that the seat is up when they pee, girls have to check that the seat is down when they do either. Why is the "reset" position of the seat considered to be the down position? Is it simply because women NEVER want the seat up so they EXPECT it to be down?
posted by jduckles at 6:20 PM on June 20, 2005

Start forgetting to flush the toilet. She'll be so disgusted she won't care whether the seat is up or down. At least, that's the technique my brothers employed.

In all seriousness though, if you don't pay rent and she does, then it's her place and you have to play by her rules. Just because she's a jerk doesn't mean you have to be one when you respond to her. Kill her with kindness.
posted by geeky at 6:25 PM on June 20, 2005

She called the girlfriend to say it? It doesn't really even warrant a passing mention, never mind a phone call. This isn't about the toilet seat-- this chick resents you. I'll bet that she's alone right now and doesn't want to watch her roommate dating and happy.

Folks are saying "take the high road," but that only works if you're MLK or Gandhi fighting a system that can be shamed. You're fighting a bitter individual, and if you don't give it back as hard as you can, she's going to bitch about every little thing you do for as long as you're dating your girlfriend and they live together. Make it clear that you don't care for her and that you won't stand for her shit. Tell her that her ass smells and that she's a pig and a shitty dog owner. Tell her that she's lame or petty whenever she bitches in front of you, whether it's about you or not.

Anything less is inviting her to manufacture more fake complaints about you and put you on the defensive. When someone takes a swipe at you, don't waste your time blocking their jabs-- go straight for the throat and don't stop until they're down.

And don't leave the toilet seat up. But don't for a second think that this is about the toilet seat or that never leaving it up again will solve anything. She'll find something else.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:26 PM on June 20, 2005

I don't walk into the bathroom door when it's shut at night.

Why can't she just put the toilet seat up when shes done using it?
posted by sled at 6:28 PM on June 20, 2005

Falling into a bowl of cold water in the dark is painful. It's not a manufactured complaint. This is about the toilet seat.

If you and your roommate always left the bathroom door open, and his girlfriend came and started closing it, you would walk into it.
posted by 23skidoo at 6:32 PM on June 20, 2005

Err, if it was dark.
posted by 23skidoo at 6:33 PM on June 20, 2005

Re: she's lucky I remembered to lift the seat before releasing.
Yikes! Don't say that.
There is some very good advice above. Take it. And, while we're on the subject. How is your aim? I wish someone would come up with a well designed toilet/urinal combo. It would make the seat thing a non issue and help with the fact that many guys need some target practice.
Anyone out there an inventor? Pleeeeease help us.
Well, on preview, I guess it depends on if you want to have an all out war or not. Good luck.
posted by BoscosMom at 6:35 PM on June 20, 2005

I don't understand why people can't just get in the habit of putting the seat AND the lid down after they finish their business.

Yes, it creates a bit of extra work on everybody's part, but in my house that's better than having the cats playing in the toilet.

FWIW, your girlfriend's roommate sounds like a real piece of work.
posted by elisabeth r at 6:40 PM on June 20, 2005

You're *not* paying rent, so it's not your argument to have. She's resentful, either because leaving the toilet seat up is reminding her of her ex, or she's upset that the roommate has a relationship and she doesn't, or some other petty reason. But again, she's not your roommate, so you don't get to tell her off.

If she's being an ass to you and it bother your girlfriend, your girlfriend can tell her off. You should stay out of the argument and learn to put the seat down (and I agree with elisabeth r about everyone keeping the lid closed).
posted by occhiblu at 6:47 PM on June 20, 2005

Flushing a toilet with the seat up spreads a fine mist of whatever's in the bowl all over everything within 6 feet of the toilet. With the lid down, the aerosols range is reduced and kept lower in the room. Read that as "not all over your g/f's toothbrush."

For this reason, I close the lid when I flush (even though I am a guy, and presumably this is not the "guy way.")

I recommend letting the snarky room-mate have it their way, rudeness notwithstanding.
posted by Crosius at 6:54 PM on June 20, 2005

notsnot, the best thing to do is apologize and then always make sure that you put the toilet seat down along with the toilet seat lid. you know, the one that makes the toilet look like a flat surface.

you would be complying with her wishes, and it makes things equal for everyone.

as a guy, i find that it's the best solution when faced with uptight people that think it's perfectly logical to go into a dark room backwards with their pants down and expect to find a seat under them.
posted by redteam at 6:57 PM on June 20, 2005

and if men put it down when they pee (or learn to aim better)

As a man, let me assure you, it isn't aim. It's droplet spray. What looks like a stream has a nasty fine mist surrounding it.

As far as the seat debate goes, I think it's fine for women to want it down all the time, simply because it, in an odd manner, shows men are smarter (Before you jump all over me I know that's not true -- men and women are equal -- but follow my reasoning ahead):

Women want it down so they don't fall into the bowl when tired (dumb thing to do). At the same time the women assume the man is smart enough to know, when tired, to raise the seat and not make an even worse mess (washing your ass takes 30 seconds, washing the bathroom up takes 10 times longer -- and the piss scent lingers, trust me).

So, I just chalk it up as one point up for the men and leave it down. Ho hum.

Flushing a toilet with the seat up spreads a fine mist of whatever's in the bowl all over everything within 6 feet of the toilet. With the lid down, the aerosols range is reduced and kept lower in the room.

Watch the mythbusters episode on this. Even toothbrushes fresh from the packet, used once, are full of feces. EWWWW eh?
posted by shepd at 6:57 PM on June 20, 2005

I'm with Mayor Curley. Straight to the mat; no mercy, no mess.
posted by lometogo at 7:02 PM on June 20, 2005

You know, the easy way to solve this is to just get over the whole masculinity thing and sit down, even when taking a piss. I know it sounds stupid, but trust me: you'll save years of mental anguish because a) you won't be leaving the seat up and b) you won't be leaving little blotches of gross-to-clean urine everywhere.

If you're too macho to sit while urinating, then just do what I used to do: close the seat and the lid when you're done. It's sort of passive aggressive, but it puts everyone on equal footing, right?
posted by jdroth at 7:04 PM on June 20, 2005

This is a losing battle for you. If you left the seat up, apologize. Don't leave it up again. In Germany there has been a feminist push to have the guys pee while sitting down. Don't be part of the problem that pushes women here to seek the same thing. Respect them, please.
posted by caddis at 7:06 PM on June 20, 2005

re: Mayor Curley

I like the cut of your jib, son.

I agree. The only reason this warrants a phonecall instead of a "oh, BTW" is if your gf and her are on schedules such that they never see each other.
posted by keswick at 7:10 PM on June 20, 2005

I'm with jdroth. Sit down.
posted by dobbs at 7:10 PM on June 20, 2005

Completely tangential to this whole thing, and to discuss a point that shepd brought up: Pee as a straight line.

Let me assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that peeing is not an exact science for a man. Generally, it's fairly neat, and anybody with any amount of politeness will clean up if they make a mess, but I hate the comments about "well if men learned to aim better..."

First off, the fine mist point that shepd brings up, half you ever turned on a faucet and noticed the mist of water that spreads around it? Same thing happens when we pee.

Second, multiple streams. Every once in a while when I guy goes to pee, for whatever reason he gets more than one stream, so you've got one going down straight, and then a second develops that sends urine flying out to your left. Not often, but it happens.

Third, weird angles. Sometimes the stream itself just stops coming out straight, instead adopting a 45 degree angle of attack. Makes it a bit hard to aim when the flow changes all of a time.

All this has to do with the flesh nature of a penis, and I'm sure if you ask around one of your male friends will be happy to show you, but let me assure you, it's not about aim.

And for those who say sit down, see, then it ends up bouncing off the toliet seat and spraying me on the ass, that's just not cool.
posted by KirTakat at 7:12 PM on June 20, 2005

Peah, leave the lid (not just the seat) down. It inconveniences everybody, which should make everyone happy, or at least give nobody anything to complain about. And feng shui holds that leaving the lid up lets the prosperity drain out of the house. Everybody can agree that nobody wants that.
posted by TimeFactor at 7:21 PM on June 20, 2005

"Peah"? That's "Yeah" but with pee.
posted by TimeFactor at 7:23 PM on June 20, 2005

Why not try "I was in there once before and saw a big spider under the seat, so I thought I'd leave the seat up so you would see it if it was there." Not only will it be ok to leave the seat up, but it may become a life-long custom!

Seriously, how much on auto-pilot are people at night when going to the bathroom? It can't take more than one mistake before deciding to check before sitting for the rest of your life.

I'm with elisabeth r, the "covered" state is my favorite because it's just a little weird to have an open puddle of water out there. And hey, then everyone has to check.
posted by ontic at 7:25 PM on June 20, 2005

sit down, even when taking a piss.

Been there, tried that [at a bathroom designed by a woman as it didn't accomodate standing -- only 3 inches clearance from the bowl to the wall!], managed to mash my penis in at the wrong angle and left 2 fresh cups of urine on the floor [yes I did try to clean it up used my pants since they were soaking wet with it already]. Won't be trying that again anytime soon.

Not to mention rubbing gonads on the rim (and, ugh, underside rim) of the toilet bowl is gross. That's why when men design a public toilet they're so damn HUGE. It's horrible enough to think it's touching a spot that one or two others have touched. To think it's touching the spot that thousands have touched... OH GOD NO.
posted by shepd at 7:36 PM on June 20, 2005

Agree with everyone who says to try to remember to put the seat or the seat and lid down. And that the roommate has issues, which your g/f may or may not decide to point out to her.

(Whether in my apartment or the b/f's, I put the seat down, he leaves it up. Neither of us particularly care. He doesn't piss on the seat and I grope for the lid before sleepily peeing in the dark. Then again, I actually prefer the seat and lid to be down, though. Looks neater.)

On preview: Serious autopilot. More than scant opening of the eyes not necessary.
posted by desuetude at 7:37 PM on June 20, 2005

i'm with everyone else that suggest leaving the seat and the lid down. not only does it put everyone on the same level (provided all parties follow your lead), it also just seems to be the cleaner thing to do. i just think seeing toilet water is gross even after the mythbusters episode. the only fly on this windscreen is if you have taught your cat to use the loo. not very likely that it can lift the lid.
posted by toomuch at 7:40 PM on June 20, 2005

You "don't pay the rent" and that's the trump card in this situation. Better to be a respectful guest. (If you were on equal footing, it would be a totally different situation.) Besides which it's better to try to live in harmony with your gf's roommate anyway, even if means going the extra yard.
posted by devilshgrin at 7:40 PM on June 20, 2005

It's not your house, you don't make the rules. I deal with enough annoying people during the day- my house is *my* space. If someone came over and bothered me, I'd scream. If you don't like it, don't go over anymore. If your girlfriend doesn't like it, she can take it up with her roommate, but you should stay out of it, and try to be as nice as possible.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:41 PM on June 20, 2005 [1 favorite]

Wow. Lots of opinions here. Particularly from females. But come on, you know they're not right, right?

My response:

"I'll leave the seat down for you if you'll leave the seat up for me."

This has a funny way of turning on the fairness switch in your opponent (Remember? She's female.) and if delivered properly (with a big smile) may get a laugh.

Never fails for me.
posted by SlyBevel at 7:45 PM on June 20, 2005

Every once in a while when I guy goes to pee, for whatever reason he gets more than one stream, so you've got one going down straight, and then a second develops that sends urine flying out to your left.

I have dubbed this phenomenon forked pee and hereby reserve all rights for such term's commercial use.
posted by troybob at 7:50 PM on June 20, 2005

When the roommate confronts me next time I'm there, what is the proper response?

"You're completely correct; this is your apartment and as a guest I should do as you ask. I'll try to be more considerate in the future."

My question: in these days when we're all equal, why can't everyone just move the seat to where they need it?

Because at least some women have developed the habit of wandering around in the dark, squatting roughly where the toilet ought to be, and voiding their bladders without paying the slightest bit of attention to their surroundings. This causes them to fall into the toilet if the seat is up, because, as noted, they're not paying any attention to what they're doing.

But you should still leave the seat down.

Nobody, barring weirdo medical emergencies, ever desperately needs to piss -- unless you're Tycho Brahe, another few seconds or even minute won't hurt you.

But I've had Very Angry Bowels, you've had Very Angry Bowels, we've all had Bowels of Extreme Anger at one point or another, where the interval between that first firm spasm in yer guts and wholesale DEAR GOD I NEED GRAB BARS firehose crappage is just a couple of minutes, and where even 15 seconds might make the difference between blessed relief and full pants.

This is a sad, woeful state to be in, and we should take pity on those who find themselves in this predicament by making sure that at any moment, the toilet is prepared to do its duty and receive a bum with exceedingly urgent desires.

Ideally, flush with the lid down, then raise the lid.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:54 PM on June 20, 2005

On the other hand, as every third person has pointed out, it's not your place.

I've lived in all of the places I've tried the "I'll leave the seat down for you..." ultimatum, so I had some voter's rights, as they say.
posted by SlyBevel at 7:54 PM on June 20, 2005

The other, and in my view, more important reason it is nasty to leave the seat up is because of the aforementioned unavoidable fine mist and forking stream problems. Unless you are planning to wash the toilet every time you pee in the nighttime, you are exposing ICKY MANPEE RIM to the world. Not that it is a terribly deal. But it isn't very nice. (And thus, "leave the seat up for me" is wrong wrong wrong!)
posted by redfoxtail at 8:11 PM on June 20, 2005

it seems women will always demand the toilet seat down and men will always pee bizarrely spraying multiple streams all over and near them. far be it from me to question why the women i've known, in full knowledge of male behavior, universally opt to sit on a probably nastily peed on if perhaps casually wiped seat - and they must know this - rather than enjoy the comfort of what could amount to her own personal clean throne, stowed away all lovely right there out of the way of our endearing but futile, and frustratingly casual, efforts to pee straight.

however, if asked to theorize, i would think definitely our male parts are still designed to pee all over things and as high up trees as possible in order to look big and influence women. and perhaps this modern white lie the women tell themselves, to believe in spite of all evidence to the contrary, that men can pee cleanly into a target area, is all that keeps our genome going while we wait to evolve to fit our porcelain overlords, that i for one, welcome.
posted by 31d1 at 8:17 PM on June 20, 2005

Not helpful, really. Maybe a tad overused, but I just can't resist:

MetaFilter: DEAR GOD I NEED GRAB BARS

As to the question, it's her place. She's being a tad-bit unreasonable in how she's approaching the problem (complaining to your girlfriend instead of you directly) but, it's her prerogative and there's really nothing you can say about it (well, maybe your girlfriend can act on your behalf).

Stick with what a lot of others have said, put both the seat and lid down. Either that, or offer her rent for the days that you stay at her place. ;)
posted by purephase at 8:24 PM on June 20, 2005

I have a good friend who lives outside the city but works in my neighborhood. She's notorious for "just stopping by to say hello" and then swinging by my bathroom to take a giant dump. I think you should adopt this practice (warn your girlfriend, natch), but make sure you're leaving the seat down and the bathroom immaculate. Nothing like a little poo-related passive aggression, eh?

That or start peeing in her shoes. Blame the dog.
posted by hamster at 8:36 PM on June 20, 2005

You're a bit more than a guest, so I wouldn't necessarily take the high road. You made a mistake so acknowledge it, yeah. But if you feel like you're being unjustly attacked then you should tell her, 'I feel like you're being unreasonable and overly aggressive because of X'. Don't turn this into a whole big thing, just put your cards on the table. Her rent comment is also bullshit, and you should let her know that. You're not living there, you're there to see your girlfriend and she needs to get used to that. (Bitter people sometimes do like to draw lines like this because they know they have little lose.)
posted by nixerman at 8:45 PM on June 20, 2005

You do indeed owe her an apology. A personal "so sorry, will make every effort blah blah" is in order. If you never want to hear about it ever again and be a hero, send flowers.

Sounds like overkill, but have you EVER sat down into cold toilet water that someone else recently peed into? Gak. Do you have any idea how far down into the bowl one sinks? Ewwww.
posted by puddinghead at 8:48 PM on June 20, 2005

Just use the sink.
posted by semmi at 8:59 PM on June 20, 2005

why can't everyone just move the seat to where they need it?

Because courtesy makes society go 'round. If you're a tenant, leaving the seat up is inconsiderate. If you're a guest in someone else's house, it's downright rude. Duh.

Having said that: You're right that it probably didn't deserve a phone call hissy fit. But you proceeded to drag the debate onto a frickin' website. So you lose there, too.
posted by cribcage at 9:00 PM on June 20, 2005

You people flush with the cover up? Because that's ridiculously disgusting. Have you seen the footage of spray that comes off those things?

The DEFAULT for toilets is SEAT DOWN, COVER DOWN.

You come in all groggy at 3am and pee, you'll be doing it all over the floor. My sig other and I never had to discuss this to come to this conclusion. Where is the "default" position for your toothbrush? In the toilet bowl?
posted by dreamsign at 9:11 PM on June 20, 2005

Sounds like overkill, but have you EVER sat down into cold toilet water that someone else recently peed into?

But this is just baffling to menfolk. You wouldn't walk up to a dining room table and fall down because you assumed the seat was out when, in plain sight, it's tucked under the table. You wouldn't sit down on a couch without looking, just to make sure the dog/cat/bunny/baby/shotgun/remote isn't where you're about to sit. You wouldn't sit down on the floor without glancing at your chosen spot to make sure it's clear.

Why is the toilet the one place that people insist on sitting without taking even a cursory glance to make sure that it's ready and willing? Seems like, if nothing else, you'd want to make sure that you didn't sit on a bug or, God forbid, mouse.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:17 PM on June 20, 2005

But WHY would I think that the seat might be up, when I live there and ALWAYS always always leave it down?
posted by puddinghead at 9:19 PM on June 20, 2005

Umm...we didn't know you needed clearer instructions. Lift the (lid and) seat. Pee. Put the seat (and lid) back down. Do not pee on the seat.

but there are those among us lazy and absentminded or hurried, and with this faulty anatomy, and so threatened to within an inch of our lives to leave the seat down that down it shall be. there is a seamy underbelly to this arrangement that's all i'm saying, and we all should know this. i'm just saying, it happens.

i happen to have to shut the whole damn thing when i flush or my cat tries to jump in. a practical reminder i suppose.
posted by 31d1 at 9:24 PM on June 20, 2005

You wouldn't sit down on a couch without looking, just to make sure the dog/cat/bunny/baby/shotgun/remote isn't where you're about to sit.

Maybe this is why I sit on the cat and my boyfriend doesn't -- because of differences in how men and women pee!
posted by croutonsupafreak at 9:32 PM on June 20, 2005

But WHY would I think that the seat might be up, when I live there and ALWAYS always always leave it down?

Because you are not the only force in the universe that acts upon your toilet seat! Because the lid might have fallen down, or someone else might have put the lid down or left the seat up, or there might be a bug there, or the seat might be cracked or visibly off a hinge, or someone might be feeling ill and have puked on the seat.

If I walked up to the table and sat on nothing and fell smack on my ass, and explained that this was actually sensible because it's my house and I always leave the seats out and so need not pay any attention to whether it's actually in or out even though it's right there in plain sight, big as life and twice as ugly, you'd call The Looney Patrol on me.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:02 PM on June 20, 2005

I've never experienced falling in the bowl, but a friend's wife did when she was nearing the end of her pregnancy. No serious harm was done, but he felt horrible about leaving the seat up (as she probably did about not looking first) and claims that he's never done it since then. Yes, this has little to do with your specific questions but maybe it's something to consider in the larger up-down toilet seat debate.
posted by PY at 10:02 PM on June 20, 2005

But this is just baffling to menfolk. You wouldn't walk up to a dining room table and fall down because you assumed the seat was out when, in plain sight, it's tucked under the table. You wouldn't sit down on a couch without looking, just to make sure the dog/cat/bunny/baby/shotgun/remote isn't where you're about to sit. You wouldn't sit down on the floor without glancing at your chosen spot to make sure it's clear.

When I was a kid, my dad wanted the tv reset to channel 9 before sleep, so when he turned it on it would be on the weather channel. This is basically one of those agreements that flatmates, couples, families, basically anyone sharing space have to make. Surely you've ALL run across situations like this.

The thing is, it is much easier to just assess situations as they are and deal with them, then expecting everyone in your household to maintain some rule because it's convenient for you to have something in perpetual default position. It's damned oppressive, too.

If you expect things to stay exactly as you left them in your house, unless you are blind (and therefore actually depend on this perpetual state of non-motion), you should probably live alone.
posted by dreamsign at 10:07 PM on June 20, 2005

pls ladies, put the seat up for us guys.
i'm tired of bending over to lift the seat up.

also, wtf is up with those fuzzy fluffy toilet seat covers? WTF? its like with them on, you CANNOT put the seat up.. forcing the man to pee sitting down.. its a castrating act to use those against us.

RISE MEN!
posted by jdg at 10:09 PM on June 20, 2005

You people who think lowering the toilet seat dramatically reduces the amount of spray droplets flying through the air are cracking me up. According to David Bodanis' classic 1986 book The Secret House, "Lowering the toilet lid during the flush reduces their numbers, but only a bit." He adds, "Some start landing only a few minutes after the flush...but most take over an hour, and a few will still be floating ever so slowly downward the next day."

Happy crapping.

Anyway, notsnot, you have no call to complain about anything if you're using their water/electricity/space regularly and not paying a thing. Lower the seat, apologize, and think about the possibility that the seat issue is really about something else. How often are you staying over at your girlfriend's place, for instance? If it's more than two nights a week, every week, and you're not helping with rent/utilities, you may want to consider taking it down a notch or coughing up some dough. Just a thought.
posted by mediareport at 10:14 PM on June 20, 2005

You people who think lowering the toilet seat dramatically reduces the amount of spray droplets flying through the air are cracking me up. According to David Bodanis' classic 1986 book...

Jesus. There are books about this? Classic books?!
posted by cribcage at 10:21 PM on June 20, 2005

You are not paying rent so you should not be staying over if your SI is sharing a place. You are wrong no matter if the seat is up or down.
posted by arse_hat at 10:21 PM on June 20, 2005

I'd suggest the default state for the toilet should be lid and seat down. Everyone raises the lid only to sit and take a crap, and closes the lid before flushing. Men and women also have to lift either one item or both items to pee, and close both lid and seat when done. That's equal amounts of work for everyone (apart from the slight extra weight of the seat for men, but you're generally bigger and stronger than us, too, so it evens out).

Why agree to this? Because it's a universal, sensible household rule to open household items as long as they're need to be opened and close them once you've finished using them. It's safer, tidier and, especially in the case of a toilet, a lot more attractive to look at.

Most of us open the medicine cabinet, get vitamins, toothpaste, toothbrush, whatever, then return the items and close the cabinet door so you don't hit your face on the edge of the door or drop items into the sink. Most of us also open a kitchen cabinet, remove and pour the cereal, then return the cereal to the cabinet and and close the door. This keep you from hitting your head on the door, or dropping things on the counter or floor.

Thus -- open a toilet as needed to use it effectively, then close it before flushing to reduce the amount of aerosolized waste and associated aroma wafting through the room, to keep the cat or kid from playing in your homeopathically shit-flavoured toilet water, and to avoid dropping items on the shelving above the toilet into the bowl.

Disclaimer: I'm a chick, but I have never put a fluffy cover on a toilet seat -- they're ugly, nasty germ catchers and I do empathize with guys who have found that they make the lid unstable. I wouldn't ever boobytrap a toliet like that. I don't do dolls with crocheted skirts to cover the spare rolls of toilet paper. Hell, I don't even do fluffy bathroom mats because the rubber backing is hard to keep clean. I look before I sit down because I always expect the seat and lid to be down, so I"ve never converted a toilet into an impromptu bidet, either.

Heloise, Martha, The Fly Lady and Cheryl Mendelson would probably all run from my house screaming because it ain't gonna be featured in House Beautiful any time in this millenium, but there are minimal standards of cleanliness and order in the place, and a closed toilet seat and lid are part of those standards.
posted by maudlin at 10:28 PM on June 20, 2005

You people who think lowering the toilet seat dramatically reduces the amount of spray droplets

Dude, there's a seat and there's a lid (which, of course, you could sit on).

a few will still be floating ever so slowly downward the next day

Alrighty then. I'll just deal with the fact that these globules are still falling downward. From a height of about twelve inches. In the toilet bowl. Instead of in the room where most people keep toothbrushes, washcloths, etc, uncovered.
posted by dreamsign at 10:47 PM on June 20, 2005

I've lived (at different times) with two men, plus my father, and none of them have left the seat up, so I've never had to deal with this at all, but if one is looking for reasons that the default position should be up or down, Bonaldi's argument seems pretty compelling to me. In a 50-50 household (equal number of men and women) usage requires the seat to be down roughly 75% of the time. If women outnumber the men, that percentage is greater.

So if your household is all men, it may make more sense to leave the seat up, but personally, I also agree with maudlin that it's just generally a good idea to leave things in the "closed" position because it's usually tidier and safer.

And all the eye-rolling about women not checking to see if the seat is up or down is kind of silly. Of course we check if we are in someone else's home or in a public bathroom, but if it's our house, and the seat is never up, we probably don't check. If you rolled out of bed in the morning and stuck your bare foot in a pile of dog poo because your roommate's girlfriend had her dog over, would you agree that it was up to you to check the floor for dog poo before getting out of your bed?

(but, yes - I think the roommate's approach was unnecessarily bitchy.)
posted by taz at 10:48 PM on June 20, 2005

Leaving the lid closed also reduces the number of items dropped into the toilet.

Not that I've ever dropped a comb, my makeup, or anything else in there before morning coffee kicked in and my reflexes actually started to work. I'm just theorizing.
posted by occhiblu at 10:56 PM on June 20, 2005

I'll just deal with the fact that these globules are still falling downward. From a height of about twelve inches. In the toilet bowl. Instead of in the room where most people keep toothbrushes, washcloths, etc, uncovered.

dreamsign, you missed the point. I may not have been clear, but Bodanis was: "Lowering the toilet lid during the flush reduces their numbers, but only a bit."

Here's what you need to "deal with": every time you flush you're spraying microscopic bacteria and shit and piss particles into the air of your bathroom, onto your precious, uncovered washcloths and toothbrushes.

It's a wonder we manage to survive at all, eh? Not.
I mean, you really have bigger worries.
posted by mediareport at 10:58 PM on June 20, 2005

By happy accident, this thread also answers the question: Why do people laugh at North Americans behind their back?

Seriously, your comments all deserve to be placed in a time capsule, so that one day posterity (human or otherwise) may read them and say: This was America at the onset of the twenty-first century.

Hats off. Really.
posted by ori at 11:25 PM on June 20, 2005

You're a guest in their home, it's a respect thing to put the seat down after you have used it. If it happens again apologise to the flatmate. Let your g/f talk to her flatmate about the flatmates habits.
posted by Chimp at 1:11 AM on June 21, 2005

I'm pretty sure I read in Miss Manners that etiquette demands that not only the seat be down but also the lid. It's more sanitary, it doesn't imply that only men are capable of adjusting the seat properly, and it's just more attractive. Of course Miss Manners would also say that correcting people on this (or other etiquette points) is one of the rudest things you can do.

I grew up in a house where the "rule" about the toilet seat was never mentioned. When comedians talked about it I thought they were joking and that no one would actually try to regulate whether the seat were up or down. Then in college I dealt with people who actually had this "rule." My mom told me that these people were just neurotic. None of my relatives or friends' parents ever made an issue out of this in the first 20 or so years of my life. I only encountered it from young people in their first apartments. This, I think, indicates that a certain lack of maturity is required to make an issue out of such a human and minor transgression.

My non-sexist solution:

~~Guys~~Everyone: Leave the toilet ~~seat~~lid down!
~~Gals~~Everyone: Don't make a big deal about it when someone forgets or doesn't know!
posted by grouse at 1:12 AM on June 21, 2005

Why is the toilet the one place that people insist on sitting without taking even a cursory glance to make sure that it's ready and willing?

Because when I stumble into the bathroom in the middle of the night I am either temporarily blinded by the sudden switch from dark to light or I have left the light off. In either case, I literally can't see.
posted by cali at 1:36 AM on June 21, 2005

If you rolled out of bed in the morning and stuck your bare foot in a pile of dog poo because your roommate's girlfriend had her dog over, would you agree that it was up to you to check the floor for dog poo before getting out of your bed?

I'd agree that it was my fault that I stepped in dogshit, because I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing, and that the odd pile of dogshit is an inescapable risk of having a dog in the house.

I wouldn't agree that it was anyone else's job to say make sure that my path was free of dogshit, or dog puke, or dog toys, or the dog itself, on account of my habit of walking around without looking where I am going.

I leave it down, because the only real seconds-count emergency is a seat-down condition. But claiming that the seat must remain down to accommodate simple inattention seems a bit silly, though of course the homeowner/tenant can set the rules of the house however they please.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:55 AM on June 21, 2005

This thread doesn't need another comment, but nonetheles, I'm with jduckles. 'Seat down' is not more automatically more right than 'seat up'. Frankly, it's courtesy on our part to lift it at all - I personally enjoy the challenge of getting it all through the hole.

Also, because women never put the seat up, the never seen the nasty yellow gunk they leave on the underside of the front of the seat. And when we lift the seat... eeeeew. Try getting a women to take responsibililty for cleaning that up after herself..
posted by ascullion at 2:15 AM on June 21, 2005

When I was little I dropped a small bouncy ball into the toilet. It disappeared :(

(It's her house, you're not paying the rent, put the seat down when you're done).
posted by Lotto at 2:35 AM on June 21, 2005

Man, this was contentious last time we discussed it, too.

The toilet is the toilet, and to repeat what I wrote in that previous thread, I'm amazed that this is even an issue anywhere outside of sitcoms. It's simple:

Arrive at toilet. Put lid/seat combination in whatever configuration you need it to be in, based on whatever configuration your find it in. Do what you need to do. Flush.
posted by benzo8 at 2:35 AM on June 21, 2005

Hey, has anyone referenced that post from last week which in turn referenced a post on Salon entitled My Sorry Ass Tiny Little First World Problems?

My two cents are that once you master the seat, there'll be another SATLFWP....
posted by forallmankind at 3:14 AM on June 21, 2005

I don't normally like to get into this argument (and god knows, we've been over it enough) but have any of the women who complain about sitting down in cold water in the night ever sat down on the lowered lid and then had piss go everywhere? Just wondering (I'm happy to never leave the seat up, and like jdroth, have no problems with peeing sitting down).
posted by biffa at 3:36 AM on June 21, 2005

usage requires the seat to be down roughly 75% of the time.

well, in 3 of 4 scenarios, but that doesn't generally translate into 75% of events, given that most people pee a number of times in a day but average crap is one per.

I am also amazed that this is an issue of importance. I've never fallen into a toilet and would only blame myself if I did.

ROU, older women can certainly suffer symptoms of incontinence, though I guess that doesn't change yr argument if the same's not true for men...

Lid down always means to me "someone's done some nasty business" and I never want to be the one to lift the lid, under which all the nasty particles are waiting to be released back into the air. Leaving the lid up may allow more particles to spread around your bathroom, but they've got to go somewhere eventually... leaving the lid down just delays this until the next person comes to use the bathroom, doesn't stop it.

I think you just have to face the fact that we live in a world full of nasty little particles. When a lot of them are together it can be disgusting. When miniscule remnants of them float in the air, it's an unpleasant smell. But it is not really the end of the world. Remember, ultimately they're just atoms of sulfur and carbon and whatnot. Ultimately they're just electrons and protons! Everyone likes electrons and protons, right?

Anyhoo. I see nothing wrong with leaving the toilet seat in whatever position, when it's your house, but I do have to agree that house rules are up to the one whose house it is. If the roommate is the lease-holder, then your gf doesn't have all that much say to begin with. If your gf shares the lease, she can argue it out with her roommate, but you shouldn't involve yourself.
posted by mdn at 5:07 AM on June 21, 2005

I'm with grouse. Let's mean well and not make big deals. Tada!

(Personally, I try to remember to put it down but I'll forget occasionally, and I don't do it at all in my own home unless I have guests over. I've never gotten into a conflict over it, and it's a petty thing in the end. Plus, even if the globules thing is true, I doubt it would pose a threat to anyone's health.)
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:10 AM on June 21, 2005

have any of the women who complain about sitting down in cold water in the night ever sat down on the lowered lid and then had piss go everywhere?

Most of us don't start peeing until after we're done sitting, I'd venture. Just as we notice cold, nasty water on the ass, we'd notice lid where a hole should be. But in the case of lid where a hold should be, it's much easier to stand, lift the lid, and try again, without getting wet or being breifly frightened.

Anyhow, I don't think this argument should be about whether the seat should be up or down in your home (where "your" = all defensive men in this thread). It's about whether you're obligated to follow someone else's house rules in their home.

If you pay rent or otherwise contribute as an accepted and permanent member of a household, you have standing to make whatever the hell kind of argument you want about where to put the toilet seat. If you're a rare out-of-town visitor or someone who has no way of knowing any better, it's polite to be considerate of your hosts (ie, two girls living together? put the seat down), but in the if you don't, you should't worry and the hosts shouldn't make a big deal out of it. If you're spending the night at your girlfriend's apartment, which she shares with other people, then you're definitely obligated to follow the house rules.

All those other girlfriend-girlfriend's roommate issues, about puppy pee and cleaning? That's between your girlfriend and her roommate. It's up to your girlfriend and her roommate to come to an undestanding. It's their household, not yours, and you don't have any justified role in getting involved, notsnot. The roommate is a jerk to your girlfriend, possibly even a jerk to you. Tough. You've still got to live with the house rules as you find them.

If you don't like it, spend the night at your place, get a hotel, stop staying over, or help your girlfriend move out.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 6:04 AM on June 21, 2005

Most everything I was going to say has already been said (basically: you're a guest, you may be mixing the small problem of the toilet seat and the large problem of getting along with your girlfriend's roommate, and put the seat down), but, for chrissake, whatever you do, don't bring up that since-we're-all-equal argument. We're not, and pretending that we are will just make you look oblivious or worse.
posted by box at 6:21 AM on June 21, 2005

Next up:

Should the toilet paper roll be underside or overside?

For AskMefi, this is dreamsign. Goodnight.
posted by dreamsign at 6:26 AM on June 21, 2005

What is this bullshit about "paying rent" and "its her house"? Its not her house, its both their houses, and the poster is the SO of one of those people. That's not a "guest", that's family.

Equality requires that each person be responsible for the status of the toilet seat when they use it. All the rest is so much manipulative crap.
posted by Goofyy at 7:01 AM on June 21, 2005

If the original question was

My girlfriend's roommate wants me to put the toilet seat down when I'm done. What should I do?

then the answer would be cut and dried. If the answer changes because the roommate is whiny about it, then it's because you're trying to annoy your girlfriend's roommate. Your girlfriend has to live with her, so unless your girlfriend asked you to make an issue of it, take the path that makes your girlfriend happy.
posted by mendel at 8:59 AM on June 21, 2005

What is this bullshit about "paying rent" and "its her house"? Its not her house, its both their houses, and the poster is the SO of one of those people. That's not a "guest", that's family.

I'm so glad someone else thinks this. There are two people paying for the apartment. Why does one person's anti-social nature always trump the other's desire to have guests, and to have those guests be comfortable?
posted by dagnyscott at 9:16 AM on June 21, 2005

Best solution: put both the seat and lid down.

It's really the cleanliest option, and eliminates the chances of something accidentally getting dropped in there.

As an added bonus, your g/f's roommate still has to move something instead of being a lazy ass that expects the world to conform to their upbringing. Whoops, there goes that snarkiness.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:18 AM on June 21, 2005

I'd agree that it was my fault that I stepped in dogshit, because I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing, and that the odd pile of dogshit is an inescapable risk of having a dog in the house.

I wouldn't agree that it was anyone else's job to say make sure that my path was free of dogshit, or dog puke, or dog toys, or the dog itself, on account of my habit of walking around without looking where I am going.

I suppose you wouldn't mention the dogshit to the owner either, seeing as how it's not her job to make sure there's no indoor dogshit, or dog puke, or anything dog related.
posted by 23skidoo at 9:26 AM on June 21, 2005

Is it simply because women NEVER want the seat up so they EXPECT it to be down?

Not in my case. I live in a house with two other women. For most of my life I've lived with only women. The toilet seat is always down. If you've never really had to look and see if the seat is down, you just don't do it. Those few times when a house guest has left it up it IS quite a shock to find that it's not. This does seem to happen only in the middle of the night and I don't think that it really has to do with it being dark so much as just going through robotic motions without being completely conscious when just waking up. With women who have grown up with men in the house -- I don't know why they insist on it always being down, though.

My comments here probably aren't needed, but I thought I'd point out that there is a difference between ALL women expecting the seat to be down at all times in all places and women who have never had to check their own toilets expecting their own toilet to be "ready" for them.

Too bad it doesn't sound like your gf's roommate will be visiting your place. You'd be perfectly within your right to ask her to be sure to leave it UP at _your_ place.
posted by INTPLibrarian at 9:27 AM on June 21, 2005

From "moJoe" @ Everything2:

I will REMOVE the fucking toilet seat if you don't shut up.

I have never once in my entire life been asked nicely to leave the toilet seat in some specific position. It seems as if it is some sort of rule that women cannot simply request this of someone, they have to break into a song-like rant, spitting obscenities and shaking their finger at you. I by no means wish to clump ALL women into this group. I am not leaving out the possibility that only women I associate with have this problem. So basically, when I refer to "women" in this little rant, take it with a grain of salt. You know who you are... those women...

Recently, while watching Bill Cosby Himself with my girlfriend, I noted that during a joke he was doing, he said something about leaving the toilet lid down as being a bad thing. My girlfriend explained, while glaring at me, that leaving the lid and the seat down is just as bad if not worse than leaving both of them up. This is apparently due to the fact that when one has to pee, they plop down on the lid, cannot tell that it is down and begin to pee on the lid.

I have been told the exact same reason for all of this from every girl who has screamed at me for it and it has got to be one of the stupidest admissions that I have ever heard in my entire life.

"We don't always look before we sit down, and sometimes at night we don't even turn on the light."

This is a deficiency. This admission, made almost with pride, says two things to me:

I make unwarranted assumptions.

I am militantly unaware of my environment.

So as a male, apparently I am expected to make up for this deficiency by making sure that the lid is always left in the correct position. In the interest of not falling into the toilet and/or urinating on myself, I always make sure to look before I sit down. I find the concept of "not looking" interesting. How exactly does one not see the condition of the toilet before sitting on it? The only solutions I have been able to come up with on my own (since females seem uninterested or unable to tell me) are these:

Women enter the bathroom with their eyes closed or while staring at the ceiling.

Women open the bathroom door and then proceed to back into the bathroom using their rear-end to locate the toilet.

Women only do bathroom business after daylight hours and are incapable of and/or unwilling to operate a light switch.

All women are very cleverly hiding the fact that they are born blind.

Toilets/toilet seats are diabolically engineered to be completely invisible to women.

One time, when I was about seven, my skinny little ass fell into the toilet because I had left the toilet seat and lid up. Having no girth to speak of I fell right in and dipped my bare hiney in the cold (yet thankfully clean) toilet water. This was not only embarrassing but uncomfortable as well. Since that day, I have never fallen into or even come close to falling into the toilet. Might I also remind everyone that men sit down, too. Personally in the comfort of my own home (where the toilet seat is relatively clean), I rather prefer sitting down due to the fact that it is plainly less taxing and requires no aiming or standing (not that aiming and standing are all that big a task, I am just lazy).

This rant isn't due to the fact that I am unwilling to help women with this admitted deficiency. Rather, I find it infuriating that because women are seemingly unable to check to make sure that the toilet seat is down, they take this anger out on me. It becomes my deficiency, I am less of a person because I cannot remember to put the seat down/lid up. I can understand the embarrassment of urinating on ones self and or falling into a toilet, but getting angry with someone else because you did something foolish is rather immature. In some Asiatic/Middle-eastern countries, they have unisex restrooms where they squat over holes in the ground and "wipe" by splashing water on themselves. I propose a compromise, you may keep complaining and we men shall suffer it for about 10 minutes before taking a hack saw and simply removing the source of debate. Problem solved, you must now "hover".
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:28 AM on June 21, 2005

Boy, when an issue is really earth shattering, this community really pulls together to solve it!

Rules: Don't pee on anything, Look before you sit down, Clean it up if you accidently make a little mess, and keep your mouth shut if you are stupid enough to fall into a toilet!

Anyone giving this any more thought needs to get a life!
posted by HuronBob at 10:08 AM on June 21, 2005

Boyfriends and girlfriends of roommates are a huge issue for roommates. My current tenants have had multiple problems about this, and roommates have left beause of these issues. Don't contribute to any problems your girlfriend may be having with her roommate. Don't be the source of problems. You're a guest, probably a frequent guest, so being extra charming is a requirement.

If you make breakfast, especially coffee, at my house, the toilet seat rule may be waived.
posted by theora55 at 10:24 AM on June 21, 2005

Repeat after me *ahem*

"You fell in the toilet? Not with that ass, honey."

I'm pretty sure that will solve everything. Mostly because you'll be banned from ever staying over again. Your gf's roommate is lame. Normal people don't make big deals out of the toilet seat position.
posted by electroboy at 10:36 AM on June 21, 2005

I suppose you wouldn't mention the dogshit to the owner either, seeing as how it's not her job to make sure there's no indoor dogshit, or dog puke, or anything dog related.

If I stepped in dogshit, I'd be annoyed in any case. I'd be pissed if I knew that the owner hadn't taken the dog out before bedtime, or if I knew that the dog had been whining to go out and been ignored*. But sometimes, even when you do everything right, dogs shit inside, usually because they're ill.

If I stepped in dog puke, I'd be annoyed, but what are you gonna do? If you let a dog in, sometimes it's gonna puke. I'd mention it to the owner because their dog might be sick (*especially* if the dog didn't feel well enough to eat the puke again).

If I stepped on a dog toy, so? Dogs put toys down where they do, and not always where you'd like them to. I might ask that they only let the dog have one toy at a time.

Is it the owner's job to eventually clean up after their dog? Sure. When they get up and notice it. Is it their job to do so at a time that means that I face no inconvenience whatsoever, or their job to monitor their dog 24 hours a day to rush out Johnny Gage-style and clean up poo before anyone has a chance to step in it? Is it their job to roll out of bed and immediately begin policing the apartment for wayward objects or bodily functions? No and no.

And if I'm really rolling out of bed and into my roommate's fuckbuddy's dog's shit, perhaps I ought to learn to shut my damn door.

*In that case, though, I should just let the dog out myself and chew out the owner for being a bad owner some other time.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:10 AM on June 21, 2005

Is it the owner's job to teach the dog not to crap in the house?
posted by 23skidoo at 11:26 AM on June 21, 2005

So if the answer for everyone is to close the lid, the women who do that blind-back-in method (beep...beep...beep!), like Civil_Ob said, will shit or piss all over the lid...whoops.

And yes, you don't pay rent, so leave the seat up and put a buck on the back lid...
posted by hellbient at 11:35 AM on June 21, 2005

I think she sounds like a vile, anal, pain in the rear and if I were you I'd take huge delight in leaving the seat up just to give her a well-deserved aneurysm. And another thing - what kind of idiot doesn't look before sitting down on the toilet? Even in your own home there can be piss splashes on there if someone's been drunk or careless - seat down or not. What is this nonsense I'm reading from some of the respondents - "it might be dark"? Hello? Do they not have lights in their bathrooms? Unbelievable.

My God... this women/toilet seat thing just baffles me. I sometimes think it must be some sinister all-female meme/conspiracy designed just to freak men out with the sheer, dazzzling pettiness of it. What is the big deal? Men don't complain to find the seat down when we want it up, if it's dark we turn the light on for Christ's sake, so why in the name of all that's sane do so many women make such a frankly demented fuss about the reverse situation? Exactly how much stress and effort does it take to check the situation and lift/lower the seat as needed? What is wrong with these people?

OK, OK. I know the rules, I've been bad. Flag me. Serious answer? Go with what your girlfriend wants you to do: it's her place. But I'd definitely consider trying to sneakily annoy this horrendous, fussy cow of a roommate in some way if you get a chance. People like that deserve to have stress brought into their petty little lives.
posted by Decani at 11:42 AM on June 21, 2005

Take a shit in her shoes.

I keed, I keed! I pee sitting down, so it's never a problem for my fiance. Plus, my motto is why stand when you can sit!
posted by tr33hggr at 12:18 PM on June 21, 2005

given that most people pee a number of times in a day but average crap is one per.M

One!? Do you eat like, All-Bran for every meal?
posted by jalexei at 12:45 PM on June 21, 2005

Is this the longest AskMeFi thread?
posted by erebora at 1:23 PM on June 21, 2005

100 comments and counting. People are passionate about their toilets.
posted by grateful at 1:36 PM on June 21, 2005

A roommate's SO would get a say in the daily running of the household only if he were regularly contributing to expenses (food, rent, utilities) and regularly helping with the cleaning. If he's not doing either of those things, then he is a guest and should be treating the home as such.

Since when do SO's get all this right to bitch at the household inhabitants? Even if he were family, as someone above claimed, he wouldn't have the right to bitch at anyone other than his relative.
posted by occhiblu at 1:52 PM on June 21, 2005

What a whiny bitch. I hope for you and your girlfriend's sake that her lease is up soon.
posted by fourstar at 2:47 PM on June 21, 2005

In Germany there has been a feminist push to have the guys pee while sitting down.

Certainly gives the term feminazi more meaning.
posted by goethean at 2:50 PM on June 21, 2005

More like pass-a-stool-ive aggressive.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:04 PM on June 21, 2005

Gassive aggressive?
posted by jenovus at 6:05 PM on June 21, 2005

OK, ok, I started this mess... I really don't have a problem putting the seat down - two women live there. My g/f, having grown up with guys around, checks first and doesn't care. The roommate actually grew up with her dad, not her mom. As for myself, growing up with four girls in the house, I was never told that the seat must be left down; the *stridency* at which the roommate gripes about two whole instances in three months is what really confusts me.
posted by notsnot at 6:10 PM on June 21, 2005

There are two people paying for the apartment. Why does one person's anti-social nature always trump the other's desire to have guests, and to have those guests be comfortable?

There's a world of difference between "having guests" and "having a third roommate who stays over 5 nights a week." I've been lucky to have lived with folks who understand this (and/or have ultra-cool SO's who offer on their own to pay for water, etc), but I've seen plenty of couples that completely take advantage of the paying roommate by effectively letting the SO move in without asking permission, let alone making even the slightest move toward payment. In my circle, the rule is "More than two nights a week, you're living there and need to start acting like it."

If you don't see there's an issue here, Goofyy and dagnyscott, you're being either unbelievably dumb or unbelievably rude.
posted by mediareport at 7:51 PM on June 21, 2005

So, notsnot, just out of curiousity, how often are you staying over at your gf's place, anyway?
posted by mediareport at 7:51 PM on June 21, 2005

I stay over there, one, maybe two nights a week - she's at my place most nights instead (more space, no yappy little dogs). The roommate's ex, whose stuff I helped move out (he even had a bed there), stayed there every night right up to the point that they broke up.
posted by notsnot at 5:14 AM on June 22, 2005

a few years ago i got into the habit of letting the toilet seat 'fall' from the upright position whenever i was done with it. the resulting "BANG!" that came after it closed shut became my war cry. each day, i would loudly let the toilet seat drop back from up to down until i became SUCH a nuisance that my gf allowed that maybe it was for the best if i just left the seat up. four years later, the seat is still up.

xoxo
posted by car_bomb at 9:45 AM on June 22, 2005

Does the dog, by any chance, fit under the seat?
posted by Caviar at 8:58 PM on June 22, 2005

Oh, for the love of God, you guys, if there was something you could do to keep another person from falling into a toilet, would you not have to good manners to do that?
posted by puddinghead at 10:24 PM on June 22, 2005

The good manners. You know what I meant.
posted by puddinghead at 10:25 PM on June 22, 2005

What do you say about public restrooms. Should the seat be up or down? I know that even though some restrooms have urinals some men still go into the stalls and still piss on the seat. What about the people that have to use the seat. I think all public seats should be in the up position until used and then raise up again.
posted by flexman at 2:36 PM on July 9, 2005

Mayor Curley's right in as much as the roommate is out for blood. "He doesn't pay rent," is basically telling your girlfriend that she has no right to visitors, or at least visitors who violate petty, unwritten rules. Not cool.

Definately confront (although, this is really your girlfriend's battle) but don't escalate either. If this bitch isn't confronted, she will find another petty attack. She'll keep sniping until something sticks.
posted by Skwirl at 4:50 PM on February 4, 2006

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Leaving the toilet seat up? June 20, 2005 5:50 PM Subscribe

Leaving the toilet seat up?
June 20, 2005 5:50 PM Subscribe