Yes, and then the next number is?
November 14, 2011 9:32 AM Subscribe
How save is it to give your bank account information to a company for contract work?
I think I've landed a contract position. Yeah! They're asking for my bank info, to pay me by wire. That's fine, but my contact is based in Singapore and seems to be the manager for most of the people who telecommute and these people live around the world. They say that they'll then give the information to someone in San Fransisco (Who'll then send me a contract, etc).
Is there a reason this person needs my bank account info *before* I sign a contract? How safe is it to give someone my bank account info? Forgive my naivaté, but i'd rather not be cleared out by a scam artist.
The job was posted at a programming-specific site, basic googling doesn't show anything strange about the company. They've already made an email address for me (which is odd?) The whois for the mail server's domain (gandi.net) is 15 Place de la Nation, Paris, France, also known as the Arc de Triomphe (or just next to it).
I've had one other bite from this particular job site. It was a dude that wanted me to do programming for his shopping cart system. Long story short, he wasted 4 hours of my time on a video chat rambling about his system, before getting to the point that he had no money.
The pay for this job is below market by around 1/3 to 1/2 for a senior programmer (Which I am not), but makes sense if they're working with people in other parts of the world.
So, man, I dunno. 99% sure it's OK, I've just never worked on such a large company for contracting. Defer the bank account info until after contract?
I think I've landed a contract position. Yeah! They're asking for my bank info, to pay me by wire. That's fine, but my contact is based in Singapore and seems to be the manager for most of the people who telecommute and these people live around the world. They say that they'll then give the information to someone in San Fransisco (Who'll then send me a contract, etc).
Is there a reason this person needs my bank account info *before* I sign a contract? How safe is it to give someone my bank account info? Forgive my naivaté, but i'd rather not be cleared out by a scam artist.
The job was posted at a programming-specific site, basic googling doesn't show anything strange about the company. They've already made an email address for me (which is odd?) The whois for the mail server's domain (gandi.net) is 15 Place de la Nation, Paris, France, also known as the Arc de Triomphe (or just next to it).
I've had one other bite from this particular job site. It was a dude that wanted me to do programming for his shopping cart system. Long story short, he wasted 4 hours of my time on a video chat rambling about his system, before getting to the point that he had no money.
The pay for this job is below market by around 1/3 to 1/2 for a senior programmer (Which I am not), but makes sense if they're working with people in other parts of the world.
So, man, I dunno. 99% sure it's OK, I've just never worked on such a large company for contracting. Defer the bank account info until after contract?
Response by poster: And Gandi.net is just a registrar. Interesting tag line "no bullshit"
posted by alex_skazat at 9:36 AM on November 14, 2011
posted by alex_skazat at 9:36 AM on November 14, 2011
Just so you know, absolutely all of Europe pays our bills and sends money between client and contractor this way. All of my invoices give my bank address, account number and sort code, and I in fact only take money this way.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:37 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by DarlingBri at 9:37 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: So what stops someone from just taking money *out* of my account?
Again, excuse my naivaté.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:54 AM on November 14, 2011
Again, excuse my naivaté.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:54 AM on November 14, 2011
Not only Europe, but Australia and Qatar. This is how I'm paid. They can't take money out of your account without some form of authorisation (signature on file or an internet banking ID or whatever). If you're concerned about security talk to your own bank about it.
posted by Logophiliac at 9:59 AM on November 14, 2011
posted by Logophiliac at 9:59 AM on November 14, 2011
If I wanted to rip someone off, I'd offer higher than market rates, not less.
posted by Obscure Reference at 9:59 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Obscure Reference at 9:59 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bank transfers don't work that way. Our accounts dept. pays most of our invoices through bank transfer - we send the money to the account in the file, and their bank does the deposit. If there is a refund and we are entitled to money back - we can't just take it. They have to send the funds back to our account (ie we have to give them our account info).
As to how it works, no clue, but we moved away from cheques to bank transfer because this is way more secure.
posted by sandraregina at 10:00 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
As to how it works, no clue, but we moved away from cheques to bank transfer because this is way more secure.
posted by sandraregina at 10:00 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not from Europe but in Australia every company I worked for paid it's bills and payroll that way. The people can't take the money out of your account basically because they are not signatory for it or if you use online banking don't have access to your online account login details. Basically the information you are giving them is on every single cheque you write are you ever worried the people you pay by cheque? It's as safe as that.
posted by wwax at 10:01 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by wwax at 10:01 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
DarlingBri has a good point...In the [limited] experience I have with European banking/money transfer, I've seen IBAN numbers and other banking info in "public" view. Kinda strange how Americans consider these details secret when so many other countries view them as normal aspects of everyday business like a mailing address.
As a "source," Wikipedia mentions, it is standard practice for businesses to publish their bank details on invoices, to facilitate the receipt of payments by giro. Probably not a great idea to put your bank details on your business card or anything, but I'd say it's pretty safe to give it to a company that's paying you =)
posted by PCjabber at 10:03 AM on November 14, 2011
As a "source," Wikipedia mentions, it is standard practice for businesses to publish their bank details on invoices, to facilitate the receipt of payments by giro. Probably not a great idea to put your bank details on your business card or anything, but I'd say it's pretty safe to give it to a company that's paying you =)
posted by PCjabber at 10:03 AM on November 14, 2011
Sounds kinda skeevy, especially if you do not have a track record with the employer. I wouldn't do it. Maybe I am overly cautious, but I have been burned in the past by seemingly reputable businesses (including banks) that, though just a simple accounting error, overdrew my account and created a cascade of stupidities.
For this type of stuff, I have a Greendot card. The card is actually a bank account located in the Southeast somewhere and you can do electronic transfers to it. Following a transfer from an employer, you can move the money to your regular account. I keep the balance at a minimum and the employer does not have any access past the GD account.
There are processing costs, but at least it is not tied to your main account and if you cancel the GD card, all bets are off. I also just build any GD processing costs into what I bill for services too.
On preview, wwax's observation about electronic transfers is true in many countries. The US is actually one of the countries that is behind the curve in e-processing of payroll funds. So there is certainly a precedent that the system works fine.
posted by lampshade at 10:05 AM on November 14, 2011
For this type of stuff, I have a Greendot card. The card is actually a bank account located in the Southeast somewhere and you can do electronic transfers to it. Following a transfer from an employer, you can move the money to your regular account. I keep the balance at a minimum and the employer does not have any access past the GD account.
There are processing costs, but at least it is not tied to your main account and if you cancel the GD card, all bets are off. I also just build any GD processing costs into what I bill for services too.
On preview, wwax's observation about electronic transfers is true in many countries. The US is actually one of the countries that is behind the curve in e-processing of payroll funds. So there is certainly a precedent that the system works fine.
posted by lampshade at 10:05 AM on November 14, 2011
Kinda strange how Americans consider these details secret
But they are not, because as has been pointed out, they are on every check you write. America is behind the curve on still using checks, by the way - none of my European banks for the last 10 years have even issued checks. We all pay one another electronically.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:13 AM on November 14, 2011
But they are not, because as has been pointed out, they are on every check you write. America is behind the curve on still using checks, by the way - none of my European banks for the last 10 years have even issued checks. We all pay one another electronically.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:13 AM on November 14, 2011
I find it really, really startling that there could be any problem with this. I have bank accounts in four countries--Australia, the UK, Ireland and Qatar. I am, or have been, paid in this way in all four countries. All government wages and benefits in Australia are paid this way. My respective employers/contractors in the UK and Ireland paid me this way. Basically, this is the way it's done by any employer, or any government, of any size in most of the world (or possibly the world outside the USA).
posted by Logophiliac at 10:22 AM on November 14, 2011
posted by Logophiliac at 10:22 AM on November 14, 2011
If you want to be safe, make a new bank account somewhere w/ free checking, put 10 bucks in the account so it has a non-zero balance, and give them that account. Or just ask them if they can send you paper checks for payment instead of bank transfer.
posted by reptile at 10:51 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by reptile at 10:51 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Startling yes. But there is this stigma here in the US about it. It is partially due to the fact that the banks make it easy for people to scam others electronically.
I don't know whether EFTS (ACH) transfers are the same in other countries, but here in the US, it is a constant source of scams as the recipient can initiate the action depending on how it is setup and/or how vigilant the bank is.
I have first hand experience with this btw.
posted by lampshade at 10:59 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't know whether EFTS (ACH) transfers are the same in other countries, but here in the US, it is a constant source of scams as the recipient can initiate the action depending on how it is setup and/or how vigilant the bank is.
I have first hand experience with this btw.
posted by lampshade at 10:59 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've been freelance for 5 years and all my invoices are paid this way. But, as much as it is fairly routine to give out your bank details so people can pay you, they can be used to set up Direct Debits with certain companies that have an arrangement whereby they can set up direct debits without a signature. Jeremy Clarkson published his bank details in his newspaper column to prove it was perfectly safe and found that someone had used them to set up a Direct Debit for £500 a month to a charity that had such an arrangement.
Obviously because of the Direct Debit guarantee he would have been able to get his money back (if he was so inclined). Its probably not something you really need to worry about though.
posted by missmagenta at 11:14 AM on November 14, 2011
Obviously because of the Direct Debit guarantee he would have been able to get his money back (if he was so inclined). Its probably not something you really need to worry about though.
posted by missmagenta at 11:14 AM on November 14, 2011
I had a rant on the comparative safety of the banking systems of the USA and other countries all fired up but since it won't help the OP I've dumped it. If this arrangement would be unsafe in the USA he/she shouldn't enter into it. Bear in mind that the people paying into the account won't be in the USA, so considerations of its safety may need to take that into account (as in: however dodgy the US banking system is, would it allow foreigners free rein over a US bank account?).
However, if this arrangement is beyond the pale it might be difficult to get paid. Best compromise might be a separate bank account just for that purpose, as suggested above.
posted by Logophiliac at 11:44 AM on November 14, 2011
However, if this arrangement is beyond the pale it might be difficult to get paid. Best compromise might be a separate bank account just for that purpose, as suggested above.
posted by Logophiliac at 11:44 AM on November 14, 2011
Bear in mind that the people paying into the account won't be in the USA, so considerations of its safety may need to take that into account (as in: however dodgy the US banking system is, would it allow foreigners free rein over a US bank account?).
What? Providing the exact account details the OP is talking about is exactly how international bank transfers are done. Do you think people send checks from say, the UK to the US? How are you imagining that would work, besides not at all?
posted by DarlingBri at 11:53 AM on November 14, 2011
What? Providing the exact account details the OP is talking about is exactly how international bank transfers are done. Do you think people send checks from say, the UK to the US? How are you imagining that would work, besides not at all?
posted by DarlingBri at 11:53 AM on November 14, 2011
The reason why this is a concern is that there is nothing stopping someone from creating an electronic check (or a real one) from the account and routing numbers and gaining access to your money. There is nothing stopping that from happening, except the hope that everyone along the line is following the rules.
I don't know how it works in other countries- do you have to call your bank when you want to write a check (or pay someone via a "pull" or "demand" electronic transfer)? I kind of doubt it.
The reason it isn't a problem for the "big guys" is that they have different accounts for different things. They used to be called sweep accounts, where all the money would be swept into a private account each night after balancing.
So that's what you should do- talk to your bank and tell them you want an account that can only accept money and never pay it out.
posted by gjc at 4:25 PM on November 14, 2011
I don't know how it works in other countries- do you have to call your bank when you want to write a check (or pay someone via a "pull" or "demand" electronic transfer)? I kind of doubt it.
The reason it isn't a problem for the "big guys" is that they have different accounts for different things. They used to be called sweep accounts, where all the money would be swept into a private account each night after balancing.
So that's what you should do- talk to your bank and tell them you want an account that can only accept money and never pay it out.
posted by gjc at 4:25 PM on November 14, 2011
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posted by alex_skazat at 9:34 AM on November 14, 2011