Drugs drugs drugs, which are good, which are bad

November 14, 2011 5:45 AM

Help me understand the risks of recreational drugs.

I'm a late 20's male. Suppose I was curious about recreational drugs, e.g. MDMA, mushrooms, LSD, cocaine, etc, and suppose I wondered what kind of downsides I might be exposing myself to if I were to try them or perhaps use them semi-regularly (i.e. a few times per month). Aside from moral or legal concerns -- more like long-term health, if this were to become a regular thing. I understand the best thing for me to do would be to not do them, but we smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol and do things we shouldn't because we enjoy them, and there is a positive side to drugs, i.e. the high and the stimulant, which could make drugs worth the risk under some circumstances.

I grew up with "drugs are bad". A lot of stuff on the net is "drugs are great". Ideally I want non-biased scientifically based sources laying out the pros, cons, and long-term effects of all kinds of drugs so I can make an informed choice should such a decision present itself in the future.

If there are good sources on the net that would be nice (I found erowid.org -- is this a trustworthy source?), but any advice is welcome. email [e-mail] if you want to say something privately.

posted by anonymous to Health & Fitness (37 answers total)

Do whatever you want, dude, just stay the fuck away from crystal meth.

Erowid is pretty good, yeah. Also, if you need to identify mystery pills, go to pharmer.org.
posted by elizardbits at 5:53 AM on November 14, 2011 [8 favorites]

You're asking about a lot of different drugs. First of all, setting out planning to use cocaine "a few times a month" sounds kind of shaky. It is quite addictive. Remember the old Robin Williams joke? Cocaine makes you feel like a new man, and then...the new man wants another line. I've never once met someone who told me, "Man, am I ever glad I started doing coke".

As for MDMA, LSD, and other street pharmaceuticals, there is always the factor that you have no guarantee of what you are actually taking. Street cocaine, as well, is cut with.....well, whatever some guy decided to cut it with. So, that's a risk. There are others. I personally know someone who experienced persistent hallucinosis following LSD usage, and it didn't do a him a lot of good.

My impression of erowid was that people there are attempting to provide balanced information, but I'm not about to endorse them.
posted by thelonius at 5:56 AM on November 14, 2011 [3 favorites]

No preaching, just sayin: Every time you do drugs, it leaves a mark on your face. Twenties, no prob. Thirties, meh. Forties, uh-oh. Fifties, oh damn. "Drugs" includes alcohol and tobacco. It's your face. Look at your parents' friends.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 6:01 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]

You can try using google scholar. I would stay away from any drugs at all if you have an addictive personality. Stay away from these no matter what: meth, cocaine and crack, heroin. LSD has been shown to have enormous positive effects but only if used in a controlled environment (google LSD anxiety or PTSD study, I believe it's going on at Berkley)
posted by boobjob at 6:12 AM on November 14, 2011

Doing cocaine is morally irresponsible and also very dangerous--much of it is cut with Levimasole. Please stay away from it.
posted by 200burritos at 6:15 AM on November 14, 2011 [5 favorites]

"Recreational drugs" is not a monolithic category. The risks and rewards of, say, LSD are going to be completely different from cocaine, or marijuana, or ecstasy, or ritalin or etcetera.

Ideally I want non-biased scientifically based sources laying out the pros, cons, and long-term effects of all kinds of drugs

It would be nice if such a thing existed, but this is a subject on which no source is free of bias. "Official" sources, at least in the US, are pretty much pure anti-drug propaganda, sad to say. Erowid tends to lean to the opposite side of the spectrum, but their links to research and journal articles are a good start and the closest thing to objective you're likely to find.

Their "Experiences" links can be a good source as well, if read with a skeptical eye, treated as anecdata rather than fact, and especially if used as a guide to the type of people who tend to take and write about a given drug. (Which is to say, if all the "experiences" written for drug XYZ appear to be written by drooling morons, you maybe want to avoid that drug.)

Different categories of recreational drug generally seem to appeal to different personality types -- there's not a lot of overlap between, say cocaine users and users of hallucinogens for example -- because the types of experience they provide are completely different. Since you're lumping all drugs together in one group, it's not clear whether you're interested in a particular type of experience, or just curious for curiosity's sake.

Personally (and I am the farthest thing from an ant-drug person) I'd suggest not getting involved with recreational drugs unless or until you have an actual experiential goal in mind beyond "I want to get altered".
posted by ook at 6:16 AM on November 14, 2011 [2 favorites]

*Levamisole. type 2 fast 4 my own gud
posted by 200burritos at 6:16 AM on November 14, 2011

There is a risk with all substances. Not that one should try things they may be interesting, but it is truly imperative that you know what you are putting in your body. You only get one.

For that reason, I've only tried chemicals I can identify. If I cant tell what it is by its botany, or imprint on a medication, then I stay away from it. Life is too short to take something cut on the street by who knows what. Thats not to say you cant develop honest, dependable sources. Based on your question, it doesnt seem to be the case. I say this as Ive known people to sell "LSD", which was actually a much much stronger drug known as STP, or DOM. Or MDMA being mostly meth, maybe cut with a bit of MDA.

Thats not to say you still couldnt dip your toes in. If you wanted to try an LSD like drug, there is always psilobin (magic mushroomsL which are pretty safe, and easily identifiable. Other natural drugs of course are cannabis, opium (if you can find it, some people will sell you soap), kava, and kratom. Some of which legal (the last two).

Pharamacuticals can be safe, yet there is always danger when taking something not scripted to you. Particularly if you have underlying health problems, or undiagnosed issues there is heavier risk. Opiates can be extremely habit forming and life destroying. Amphetamines can be just as dangerous as can benzodiazapams.

You seem to have an idea that you can take drugs at a somewhat regular frequency. What you may find is a full blown addiction. Not trying to scare you, but Ive seen casual drug use turn for the worst. These people were not dumb, or stupid, merely in the hands of something beyond there control.

Be safe, and research, research research. Have a sitter, know what your taking, and know the side effects.
Have fun!
posted by handbanana at 6:16 AM on November 14, 2011

DanceSafe.org is another excellent resource, and they also offer testing kits for sale.
posted by rtha at 6:16 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]

*shouldn't (not should in my first sentance)
posted by handbanana at 6:19 AM on November 14, 2011

There's this old chestnut: a chart plotting addictive properties against physical harm. Stick with the bottom left, have a dependable source, and you should be solid.
posted by supercres at 6:37 AM on November 14, 2011 [8 favorites]

The book I had is out of print, I believe, but I hear good things about Buzzed.
posted by phearlez at 6:44 AM on November 14, 2011

Mod note: Folks - OP is looking for resources and/or information not blanket approval/condemnation. Helpful answers please or feel free to email them. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:46 AM on November 14, 2011

Another thing. I know you mentioned that you are aware (obviously) of the legal risks of illegal drugs, but you should really know that the Federal penalties for LSD are very severe. God help you if they charge you with trafficking in it, you can get hit with a large mandatory minimum prison sentence.
posted by thelonius at 6:47 AM on November 14, 2011

Suppose I was curious about recreational drugs, e.g. MDMA, mushrooms, LSD, cocaine, etc, and suppose I wondered what kind of downsides I might be exposing myself to if I were to try them or perhaps use them semi-regularly (i.e. a few times per month).

I'm answering this from years of personal experience in my mid to late 20s doing exactly that.

A few times a month is too much for any of those. I did MDMA almost weekly for a couple of years, and it was probably too much. I was basically an emotional basketcase. It wasn't until I knocked my usage back to a couple of times a year that I got back on an even footing again (and I eventually just stopped entirely)

Here is what will happen if you do those things that often. Work will suffer. Family relationships will suffer. Friendships will suffer. You're going to essentially be spending all your free time either being on drugs, planning to be on drugs or recovering from being on drugs. If you do cocaine that much (I didn't use it, and avoided people that did), you're going to turn into a raging asshole, and all your friends will be assholes.

I did it a point in my life where I hated my job, didn't much care for my friends and was kind of distant from my family anyway, so it wasn't much of a downside from me, but if you're at a point in your life where you're satisfied with the current status of any of those things, you'll want to think really hard before you get seriously into this kind of debauchery. And if you do get into it, make sure you maintain friendships with people who aren't. Because they are going to ground you. I think it's hard to appreciate how crazy your life can get when all your friends are people you do drugs with -- in both good ways and bad.

As far as the good side: If you do it at the right places and with the right people, MDMA and hallucinogens can change your life. Those few years were honestly the best times of my life, and I don't regret it for a second. But you have to think about what you're going through and integrate the experiences. Which is another reason to spend time recovering. And you're going to learn 90% everything there is to learn about yourself in the first few times you do any of them. Anything after that is just for fun. And it is a lot of fun. Just make sure you take the opportunity to DO stuff on them like go to parties and concerts and hang out with people and don't just be a loner and do them by yourself.

Basically, tl;dr' version is: A couple of times a month is too much for most people. Try a couple of times a year.

If you have more specific questions, feel free to memail me.
posted by empath at 6:52 AM on November 14, 2011 [12 favorites]

The first most obvious risk is arrest, possible jail time, and criminal records. This really hinders gainful employment options and your mobility because if ya get caught up they snatch your license.

Avoid opiates, serious physical addiction issues with those as well as huge risk of overdosing. I had 3 friends/acquaintances die. This includes the pharmaceuticals like oxy contin etc.

Same with coke, you can just blow up your heart, and highly addictive, there goes the bank account as well.

You never know what you're getting either if you buy "on the street." Any powder drug can be cut with anything from baking soda or laxatives to rat poison or other weird stuff.

I loved acid right up to the day I dropped and said " I'm gonna have to deal with this for the next 12 hours." Same with shrooms.

I got nothing against weed except for the obvious risk (see first sentence.) Plus you are inhaling smoke, though no studies directly link to lung cancer it can't help right?

"Bath salts" and "legal smokables" are made of weird chemicals with no real studies about how they work, apparently highly addictive too, even thought the "high" is described as horrible.

Many of these drugs will change your life unforgivably and irrevocably. Even four beers after work can lead to thousands of dollars in court costs. Be careful and be safe if you choose to try any of this stuff. Things have a tendency to snowball in unpredictable ways when you are trying to alter your perceptions.
posted by Max Power at 7:03 AM on November 14, 2011 [2 favorites]

Talk to some people who had bad trips on LSD. Ask them how many times they dosed before the bad trip and you will get the impression that it is roulette, because it is.
posted by dgran at 7:08 AM on November 14, 2011

Even four beers after work can lead to thousands of dollars in court costs.

Presumably you mean driving after having four beers.
---
Even the effects of weed are highly variable. I was comatose and on a very bad trip for 24 hours once after eating too many ditchweed brownies.
posted by goethean at 7:40 AM on November 14, 2011

Just wanted to add, drugs are to mental health what booze is to your liver, or extreme sports are to your knee joints.

Ie, if the latter is weakened in any way by an ongoing disorder, illness, or trauma, either steer well clear or only do in small quantities, occasionally, and with friends!

Ie: I've friends who have ingested everything on the scale up to smack and crack, and come out the other side fine and with some stories to tell. Other friends who had a mental obstacle, whether that was an addictive personality, a tendency to depression, or a semi-dormant psychatric disorder, ended up either addicted to the hard stuff with very little chance of escape, or in an institution.
posted by greenish at 7:40 AM on November 14, 2011

Talk to some people who had bad trips on LSD. Ask them how many times they dosed before the bad trip and you will get the impression that it is roulette, because it is.

Bad trips aren't the end of the world. And sometimes they end up being okay and helpful. It depends on your personality, I think.
posted by empath at 7:45 AM on November 14, 2011 [3 favorites]

The thing with psychedelics like LSD and mushrooms, as well as MDMA and its ilk, is that their trip is long. Like, you're completely drained the next day. Regular usage just isn't sustainable without really messing up your body's much-needed balance.

That said, taking a psychedelic in a friendly, safe environment can be a life-altering experience. It definitely changed mine, in a very positive way. Make sure you know where you're getting your product.

Stay the fuck away from coke, and especially heroin. They're highly addictive, and cause serious health, social and financial problems. I know people who fell down those holes, and you don't come out the other side without scars.
posted by mkultra at 7:50 AM on November 14, 2011 [3 favorites]

I recommend reading Saying Yes, by Jacob Sullum. It's the best treatment I've ever read of the actual effects, good and bad, of a variety of different drugs. It's billed as "A Defense of Drug Use," but I suspect that subtitle was put there by marketing folks to make it sound sexy. In reality, it's a very readable book full of statistics on drug use, addiction, policy, and politics that carefully weighs out the pros and cons of various drugs. And you can buy it on Amazon for 3 bucks. Enjoy!
posted by decathecting at 7:56 AM on November 14, 2011 [2 favorites]

The thing with psychedelics like LSD and mushrooms, as well as MDMA and its ilk, is that their trip is long.

Right, but there's a huge amount of variance within those categories. LSD lasts around twelve hours, but mushrooms might last 5–7h and MDMA around 6h. Other psychedelics, like DMT, gives a very intense but very short (~30min) trip.

Erowid is an excellent, rich resource. Take their motto to heart:

Every individual reacts differently to every chemical.
Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Do your homework, understand the risks and benefits of whatever substance you're doing, and have fun.
posted by henryaj at 8:36 AM on November 14, 2011 [3 favorites]

"Don't do drugs up your nose" is a good rule of thumb. The thing about coke is that people who are on it are really annoying when they're high, and really, really unpleasant and irrational when they're coming down or are fiending for it. And also any friends you make while on coke will think nothing of stealing your money and your stuff so they can go buy more coke. The same is true with meth.

Hallucinogens can be fun and interesting, and you'll have a much better time if you take them on a nice sunny day and are outside in a park or a field than if you're at a club or a party. At least the first few times. Then you can experiment with being around people and flashy lights and stuff. But do remember the three rules of tripping: 1) fire burns 2) cars are dangerous 3) you can't fly.*

MDMA is fine if taken less than once a month. Dancing to fast music can be really fun. Snuggling is really fun. You won't be able to sleep, and you'll feel like absolute shit the next day.

*or, at least, take off from the ground, preferably while lying down. That is much more like flying than launching yourself into the air
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:37 AM on November 14, 2011 [2 favorites]

One thing to do is make sure you are using a drug for its intended effects, rather than getting a high off of some side-effect. Extreme example: huffing paint. Moderate example: using cocaine and amphetamines for the high instead of the speed. Or painkillers for the high instead of the pain killing.

The shorter the duration of the effect of the drug, the worse off you will be. This is why meth, heroin and crack are terrible. The high is brief, because it is really a side effect, but the junk is still in your system for hours or days. That is where the damaging part of addiction comes from.

Another thing is the social aspect. Do you really want to be hanging around people who are less high than you? Or more high than you? It's no fun.

Drug use, recreational or for a reason, almost always makes life more complicated. You have to worry about getting and maintaining a supply, going up, coming down, hangovers, Tuesday blues, side effects, and on and on. There is always a tradeoff. Sometimes it is worth it, sometimes it isn't.

And it's fucking expensive.
posted by gjc at 8:43 AM on November 14, 2011

You're not going to get very helpful answers here. There is no general rule and every single story in this thread, wether it's directly from the poster or about their "friends who died" just needs to be ignored. There are no "rule of thumbs" here. Whatever you do will effect you on an individual basis that will depend a lot on your specific biology, situation, outlook and mental state.

Maybe you're irresponsible and have an addictive personality and shouldn't try any of this stuff even once. Maybe you've got your head on straight and you're really healthy and can do any of those you listed. Maybe you're mentally ready but you have a heart condition even you don't know about.

You need to be very self-aware if you want to venture in this arena. Most people start slow and have a little fun. You may or may not be most people.
posted by spaltavian at 8:54 AM on November 14, 2011 [2 favorites]

Speaking only to ectasy/MDMA, I recommend caution.
I used drugs recreationally as a teenager into my early twenties. I was lucky and did not get addicted to anything except bad lovers and cigarettes. My drug of choice was ectasy/MDMA although there was a host of other intoxicants. Now, in my late 30s, I have an annoying memory problem, specifically long-term. Will using MDMA 1 time going to do this to you? Probably not.

I would link to this but my work gives me access that others don't have:

Laws KR, Kokkalis J. 2007. Ecstasy (MDMA) and memory function: a meta-analytic update. Hum Psychopharmacol Clin Exp 22: 381–388.

And on a completely unscientific basis, my hippie dad said anything that comes from nature is safer than that created in labs. Maybe try mushrooms first? They are fun...just take a little bit. Stay away from injectables and snortables and anything you need to use "foil" with. If you ever find yourself really really thinking something is amazing-NEVER DO IT AGAIN. But you should have a buddy because it is fun to have someone to do it with. Have a "patient" sitter.

And may I say that if you haven't done this and you are in your late 20s, maybe it isn't your style? And that is fine and lovely?
posted by Kitty Cornered at 9:51 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]

You may like one of these drugs SO much that you become addicted to it. And your "I'll try it once" goes terribly wrong.

Also, there's a lot of jobs out there that do drug testing. If you unexpectedly end up out of work, this may be a problem for you.

I also remember reading that ecstasy, even if you only try it once, permanently fucks with your serotonin levels. That one, coke, and meth seem like ones that are really worrisome to me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:08 AM on November 14, 2011

I also remember reading that ecstasy, even if you only try it once, permanently fucks with your serotonin levels.

You may be thinking of a study published by a team at Johns Hopkins, which reported that MDMA use caused terrible brain damage.

The study was retracted in 2002.
posted by rtha at 10:21 AM on November 14, 2011 [5 favorites]

And may I say that if you haven't done this and you are in your late 20s, maybe it isn't your style? And that is fine and lovely?

Never too late to try something new, if the new thing is a psychedelic and you've really done the research. Some people are late bloomers.

It's a different story for drugs that can be physically addictive. Even if you can avoid developing a problem (which has an element of luck to it), it's going to be harder on your body than if you were in your early 20s. It's not entirely unlike deciding to suddenly start getting very very drunk sometimes, and see how that works out. Except that the cravings and long-term consequences can manifest themselves much more quickly.
posted by Adventurer at 10:58 AM on November 14, 2011

Stay away from powders and painkillers. Oh, and those "legal weed" substitutes.

Marijuana and mushrooms aren't too bad.

Pills: Again, stay away from painkillers. And uppers.
Soma, valium, ativan, xanax... not too bad. Just don't plan on driving anywhere 'cause you may end up falling asleep. And don't mix 'em with alcohol.

YMMV, and I suggest doing a lot of research on the things you're curious about to get a better idea of what you may be getting yourself into.
posted by luckynerd at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]

Yes, erowid is a reliable source. I would say the most reliable source on the internet.

Read as much as you can on their site, and email them with questions if you have more. They go to great lengths to compile accurate and reliable information and are happy to answer questions if they can.

I got to meet Earth and Fire Erowid recently and was happy to be able to tell them that I recommend their website to people all the time.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:37 PM on November 14, 2011

To echo many above - these are all very different substances.

To echo empath - when you do shrooms or acid, you will find that you probably don't want to do them several times a month. They are draining. The experience can be intense. It can be fantastic, but it probably will not leave you with an 'omg doing this every weekend' feeling.

Basically, my rule nowadays is that if it grows in nature, I will do it. Shrooms and weed can be wonderful things. I think this is a god philosophy, but then again it works for me, so ymmv.

Cocaine is a horrible thing. The high is short and not that great, it is expensive, it is really addictive, and after you do all your coke (because you will) you basically feel like shit for a couple days. I turned away from coke years ago and I will not return. I would just say don't even go there.

MDMA will probably be the drug that I will turn away from my grows in nature philosophy for at some point. I tried to do it once in college, but what we bought turned out to not be MDMA - it was probably coke laced with who the hell knows what - and that experience kind of scared me away from it. So, as others have said, make sure you really know your source on this stuff. From many of the people I know who have done/do MDMA, though, it can be a great and relatively consequence-free experience.

I guess my advice would be: don't go about this with the attitude of 'ok, I'm gonna start doing drugs!' Start with some specific, not-to-crazy things, plan an experience for yourself, do it intentionally and consciously, and see where it takes you. If you've never smoked weed, just start there and see. Do shrooms once - do it with friends who have done it before, do it in nature, be mindful about it. Get your feet wet and then start exploring if you feel inclined. You'll probably realize that many of these drugs have their good and bad sides, and that will determine the course you want to travel with them.

And yeah, don't abuse pills, man. That gets into 'I'm doing this because I need to' territory, which is not where you want to be. You want to be in the 'let's have some fun/have an enlightening experience' realm.

Be careful. Start small, start slow, don't go it alone at first.
posted by Lutoslawski at 1:42 PM on November 14, 2011

I just wanted to note that if you ever end up in a place where you need pharmer.org to identify a pill, you already have bigger problems than pharmer.org has the ability to properly address and that would be something really worth looking into. That said it is a fantastic and honest resource.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:21 PM on November 14, 2011

Read PIHKAL - it's a wealth of information. Erowid is interesting but the reports there can skew a bit to the "I took a truckload of this thing and then tried these other things half way through", which I find unhelpful.

If you're going to try this, be careful. Read up on your biochemistry - understand what a neurotransmitter is and try to get an idea of what is actually happening when you take drugs.

For MDMA specifically, look into taking 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) supplements afterwards. Many people report feeling really down or depressed a couple of days after dropping E - 5-HTP can prevent this from happening. For all drugs in general, look after yourself both beforehand and afterwards - give your body time to recover. I quite like the advice given here. Some people report that for MDMA, a lot of the magic is gone after a couple of doses. I know a decent number of people who can confidently assert that this is not the case even after many years of use, but it was careful, considered, moderate use.

A couple of basic safety tips here:

- bear in mind that while your body might feel great, it's still the same body and the better you look after its needs the better a time you will have, ie:

- food first then drugs. Unless it's renowned for making people puke, try to eat a decent meal before taking something - you might not feel like eating for quite a while.

- try to get an idea of the scheduling (how long it takes to set in/peak/wear off) so you don't come up in the cloakroom queue and you're not still tripping balls the next day during lunch with your partner's parents.

- be careful about the company you keep. Being fussier about who you trip with than who you sleep with would not be overdoing it.

- alcohol is not actually a great mixer, will reduce the effect you feel, and will make things much more dangerous physically.

- if you can't pronounce its full name, you are in no fit state to take it.
posted by doop at 4:48 PM on November 14, 2011

All drugs are different. Be sure to read erowid for anything you are interested in consuming. I can make special note of some things you should always stay the hell away from:

Anything that jacks with your dopamine levels. This mostly means cocaine (and crack) and meth amphetamines. Dopamine is active in motivation and reward. Any drug that artificially messes with that can easily become impossible to quit because you no longer feel rewards in your normal life. Meth is particularly brutal in this regard.

Opitates. This means heroine, morphine, opium, OxyContin, Percocet, etc. etc. Fiddling with those opioid receptors causes physical addiction. Withdrawal is painful.

Salvia Divinorum and PCP. These are not related compounds but both can cause honest to god dangerous and uncontrolled behavior.

Other designer drugs (DOM, 2C-B... there are hundreds). Some of these are pretty safe, some cause a fate worse than death. Without research and complete faith in your chemist this whole area is too risky. This also covers synthetic cannabis and bath salts.

On the "safe" side I would put marijuana and mushrooms and not much else. MDMA is quite safe if you are 100% sure you're actually getting pure MDMA and you're not dancing around like an idiot. LSD and mescaline are also pretty safe but LSD journeys can last a long time.
posted by chairface at 4:54 PM on November 14, 2011 [1 favorite]

Memail me. I can help.
posted by dephlogisticated at 5:34 PM on November 14, 2011