Crazed woman took my pens
November 5, 2011 8:43 PM   Subscribe

Is impulse thievery a hallmark of mental disabilities? A crazy woman took my pens at a restaurant the other night, and one of her companions claimed she had some sort of mental disability or condition or something. I am inclined to think she was just drunk and obnoxious, but I don't have a lot of knowledge of mental disabilities.

I was at a restaurant with a friend, and I showed off some fancy new pens I had just bought off the internet which are imported from Japan. I geek out on office supplies so I was very excited doing this. I put the pens back in their case and set it on the table and then focused on enjoying some queso.

Just then, a woman at the next table jumps up, grabs my pen case, and runs out of the restaurant. I *freaked*. I went from zero to rage in one second. I ran after her, but I am kind of fat and slow and out of shape and I was just plain shocked at what she did. She went out the door that led to the patio, and as I had just about caught up to her, she vaulted the patio fence. I am not agile enough to vault a fence, so it's good that I didn't try. I had yelled something at her that I can't even remember now, probably something like "Give me my pens back!" or "What the hell is wrong with you?!?!" or some such.

I had to go back into the restaurant, then out the front door and into the parking lot. She was very far away at that point, it took me awhile to even see where she was, and she was walking very fast around a fence. I knew chasing her would be fruitless, so I went back into the restaurant.

In the lobby stood one of her (male) dining companions, and I was angry and cursing and WTF-ing, I had completely lost my cool. He claimed she was mentally disabled or had some sort of condition or something. I can't remember the exact wording. I think I said something like "can you get my pens back?".

Anyway, I headed back to the table and tried to calm down. Waitstaff were all standing around and asking each other questions about what had happened, other patrons were staring, and my hands were still shaking from the adrenaline and freaked-out-ness.

Eventually one of the guys she was with brings the pens back (whew!!! yay!!!), and I'm like "thanks", and then the manager proceeds to tell him that he and his friends are no longer welcome at this restaurant. He protests a bit but then disappears.

I eventually calm down with the help of a margarita or two. It takes like twenty minutes to stop shaking. Still just totally reeling at the incomprehensibility of it all. And I start thinking back to when I noticed this woman earlier. Right after my friend and I got to our table, he left for the restroom, and this woman accosted a waitress and made her stop (she had a pitcher of iced tea and was going to one of her tables), and asked her very loudly and obnoxiously: "Would you be attracted to THIS GUY if he didn't have such a FUCKED UP view of WOMEN?", or something like that. I didn't hear what the waitress said but she eventually left. So this part makes me think the woman was just an obnoxious drunk person.

And I also recalled that when I was showing off the awesomeness of my pens to my friend, the thief had been facing me and staring at me. I didn't think much of it at the time - I certainly did not expect her to *steal* them. But she was clearly fixated before the act.

So my question is: is there really some kind of mental disability or impairment that would make a person behave that way?

I am still kind of angry and view this person in a less-than-charitable light, but I want to know should I feel some measure of pity for a person who just may not be capable of knowing social rules (such as DO NOT STEAL) well enough to follow them.

Or was this really just probably an obnoxious drunk person with a weird-excuse-making friend? I really have not had close contact with people with mental disabilities, so I don't know if this is the kind of thing such a person would do, or if having such a disability is consistent with the way she accosted the waitress previous to the theft.
posted by 6500xf to Human Relations (24 answers total)
 
kleptomania
posted by empath at 8:47 PM on November 5, 2011


This is a sucky thing that happened. I'd be stressed, too. However, we can't know if the woman was drunk or has a disorder. Either or a combination of both can explain the behavior you're describing.
posted by sweetkid at 8:50 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


If she was drunk enough cause such a scene, I doubt she'd be able to leap a fence with relative ease. Her treatment of the waitress and stealing the pens may be a sign of poor impulse control, which is sometimes a marker of mental illness. But there's really not enough information to tell, and mental health struggles can manifest in so many different ways that you wouldn't be able to pin anything down for certain based on what you saw.
posted by lilac girl at 8:55 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


I want to know should I feel some measure of pity for a person who just may not be capable of knowing social rules (such as DO NOT STEAL) well enough to follow them.

Drunk, mentally ill, or both, if you need to I think you could probably summon up some pity for either explanation. The woman obviously wasn't all there. Just feel a little embarrassed for her and move on in your life.
posted by Think_Long at 8:55 PM on November 5, 2011 [11 favorites]


Drunken asshole seems to be the simplest explanation to me. I usually go with simple, it makes life easier.
posted by kellyblah at 8:56 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


Mental illness changed one of my loved ones from a sweet, beautiful, intelligent young woman into that crazy, ranting, bedraggled person dressed in an accumulation of rags who stands on the sidewalk talking to herself and cursing at top volume at anyone hapless enough to walk by. So yeah, stealing the pens could be mental illness. But you'll never really know, so just be happy you have them back and move on.
posted by BlahLaLa at 9:05 PM on November 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


Impulse control problems are a hallmark of a variety of mental illnesses, substance abuse problems, and brain injuries. Anything to do with the prefontal cortex, orbitofrontal cortex, and interior frontal gyrus. Mild inebriation also screws with your ability to make sensible choices, but I'd be a little surprised if that's all this was, especially since the behavior was extreme - running away like she's being chased by monsters/making an extremely loud and dramatic scene - and she switched between silent cooperation with society and that extreme seemingly at random, which isn't really how drunk people act in my limited experience.

I also wouldn't think someone would jump first to "my friend's disabled" in this situation if it weren't actually true. Wouldn't "she's having a bad day" and "I don't know what's going on with her" be first-line responses?

I think you should be thankful that you are neither this woman nor someone in her daily life and be done with it. Plus, you have your pens.
posted by SMPA at 9:18 PM on November 5, 2011 [15 favorites]


It was a bet.

She bet her companions at that table that she'd do it.

Or they dared her, or double-dared her, or double-dog-dared her, and she took them up on it.

She *could* be a blackout alcoholic -- I've known a few of those that are completely unpredictable, they literally are not there at the time, they've checked out. Could be that.

But I think it was on a dare.


Actually, once you get past it, you'll be able to appreciate how great it is, it really is funny as hell -- you couldn't script this, really, it's one of the most bizarre things you'll have happen in your life. Or I damn sure hope so.
Pro-tip: Don't marry her.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:41 PM on November 5, 2011 [7 favorites]


I don't think there's a certain set of behaviors for people who have mental illness. I think the point is is that their behavior is erractic and hard to predict.

I think if she just wanted to steal your pens, she would have done do in a much sneakier way. There's no way she could have thought she'd get away with that, if she were thinking clearly and the fact that her friend got the pens back for you speaks to the fact that this was not planned.
posted by bearette at 9:43 PM on November 5, 2011 [2 favorites]


She was gone. She got away clean with your pens. If you had called the police, they would probably have written down your story and not done anything. All your pen are belong to her.

...Then they came back. That is the weirdest part.
  • If she had been mentally ill, wouldn't her dining companion have run right after her to make sure she was OK? He wouldn't be embarrassed; he'd be worried, if he knew her to be ill.
  • If she had been drunk or whatever, and wanted your pens, why wouldn't she keep them?
So, it was a dare. She may or may not be crazy and/or drunk, but she took your pens for the lulz.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 10:09 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think a possible explanation is that maybe she was eavesdropping on your conversation, was offended or rubbed wrong by something you said or your manner (maybe you in fact said something she found annoying and sexist), had an inkling that this specific action would cause you to hilariously flip your shit in a manner that would make you look totally inappropriate in public (correct!), so she did it entirely for the lulz as suggested above. I've wanted to do stuff like that just to provoke people before, but I have good impulse control and my job depends on not getting arrested, so I don't actually do it.

In situations like this, where no one was harmed and nothing major was lost, I like to remind myself to laugh at life's chaotic absurdities.
posted by so_gracefully at 10:23 PM on November 5, 2011 [4 favorites]


nth-ing dare. that also would explain why the waitress kicks the companions out afterwards.
posted by Jon_Evil at 10:43 PM on November 5, 2011


I can imagine this as a sign of intellectual disability more easily. Did she seem to be intellectually disabled (i.e. 'mentally retarded')?
posted by namesarehard at 12:42 AM on November 6, 2011


I could be completely off with this, but it reads to me sort of like the pull-her-ponytail-and-run-away kind of behaviour that young boys engage in to show that they like a young girl.
posted by Solomon at 1:26 AM on November 6, 2011


Just pointing out that, since it's already impossible to figure out whether it is some type of mental issue, and if yes, what type of issue, it's even more difficult to assess what would be the likeliest way to react in the position of her friends.

You know zero about their context, about their level of embarrassment, about how well-trained they may be in dealing with whatever disorder this person might (or might not) have; it's impossible to solve this question without more firsthand info.

So you will have to settle for whatever gives you most peace with the situation: if it helps you to believe her friend, to think that she has some kind of mental illness that makes her do socially not accepted things like loud, obnoxious talking, staring at people, and taking their stuff, be assured that there are conditions out there that fit the bill (whatever they're called, and however they manifest themselves in various individuals).

If it suits you better to think that she was drunk and is a jerk, there are enough of drunken jerks around to make this sound likely.

If you believe that it was a weird betting game, well. I once saw a sober, muscular, naked-except-a-blue-t-shirt dude walk through ankle-deep slush, in central Amsterdam at lunchtime, in a very single-minded fashion. Even this happens.
posted by Namlit at 2:23 AM on November 6, 2011


I can't really give any credence to the "it was a dare" or "she was just drunk" theories. It's too bizarre. In my view it has to be mental illness. Maybe not kleptomania, something almost akin to Tourettes in the sense that perhaps she had seen the pride and care you lavished on the pens and her illness compelled her to take the thing that you were so proud of. I really think it was illness.

But she did succeed in making you look like an idiot. Chasing somebody over some pens? Next time, play it cool. If somebody grabs pens from your table, you just smirk and continue with the conversation. That's really the ONLY way to deal with sudden pen theft. The worst thing about this is that this crazy lady stole your pens but you sacrificed your dignity trying to get them back. It wasn't worth it.
posted by jayder at 4:27 AM on November 6, 2011 [2 favorites]


And I also recalled that when I was showing off the awesomeness of my pens to my friend, the thief had been facing me and staring at me.

Blatant staring is a non-verbal form of aggression. It often precedes verbal or physical aggression.

You might want to keep that in mind in the future.
posted by jason's_planet at 7:07 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Anecdata: I've known some folks with bipolar disorder who did things like this but only when they skipped on their medication. And they did it alone, not in groups or in situations such as you describe.
posted by tommasz at 7:11 AM on November 6, 2011


Best answer: I concur on dare, but would add that they probably overheard you talking about how great your pens were (possibly because they weren't having any interesting conversation of their own), and were jealous as to how much you valued them. They both masked this jealousy as ironic and detached mocking, which is what people who are unhappy or jealous of others do.

I'm totally not saying she coveted your pens... not at all. Rather, she just coveted the fact that you were so happy and satisfied with something that to her had largely no value. This, for whatever reason, infuriates people. They get angry that you could care so deeply about things that to them are insignificant, because to them, what you should actually be caring about is what they care about.

So... she stole them, just to fuck with you and "put you in your place"

The conversation probably went something like "Can you believe how much this guy loves these pens? That's crazy to love pens so much. What a loser! I know, I'll steal them! Then what will he do!"

And then she proceeded to break all current rules of decorum, taste and legality and steal what you were so happy about possessing because she is bitter and miserable.

And so maybe the mental condition was depression. Or maybe, perhaps, even if you have a mental condition you should be held to a standard where you don't act like a dipshit, because then you'll just keep acting like a dipshit.
posted by Feel the beat of the rhythm of the night at 7:21 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, a bunch of people said what I said. Sorry. I guess the only thing I can do now is steal their pens.
posted by Feel the beat of the rhythm of the night at 7:27 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


What I like about this question is that it calls attention to how difficult it is to draw the line between mental illness, drunk and obnoxious, and taking up a dare. Habitually drunk and obnoxious is considered substance abuse, a disease. Taking up a dare would also require some sort of willingness to do so that might be anti-social personality disorder. So which you choose as the explanation is somewhat up to you without more context about how this woman behaves on other occasions, and even then is still open to interpretation.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:13 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Thank you all for your comments, I appreciate the insight. As each day passes, I am less upset and bitter about it, and consider it more as just a freak thing that happened that gives me a weird story I can tell (trying to look on the bright side).

The pens weren't super-valuable monetarily. I think replacement cost would be about $20 for four of them, including shipping. But they were quite precious to me, even though they were replaceable. I wasn't rational in the heat of the moment, or I would have just let it go, probably. Getting them back is what allowed me to calm down, really. Even if I hadn't run out of the restaurant after her, I would have had a hard time calming down and enjoying my meal.

I think the most disturbing thing about it is how she made me lose my cool. I realize that's on me. I am really, really glad I did not catch up to her. I think all I would have done would be to try to grab them out of her hands or yell at her some more, up close. It's for the best that it didn't come to that, for sure. I did not have the level of self-control that I should have, so it's a lesson for me in the future to not let a flash of anger cause me to do stupid things. I am normally a pretty mellow person.

There are a lot of great answers, and I think Feel the beat of the rhythm of the night's resonated most with me. The pen thief was probably a very unhappy person and seeing my simple joy just made her snap or something. I think also it takes a pretty impulsive person to accost the waitstaff in the way she did.

Thanks again for your responses.
posted by 6500xf at 1:18 PM on November 6, 2011


I used to think kleptomania was something that got put into practice when nobody was looking (the shifty-eyed sideways glance before stuffing something into your overcoat, that sort of thing).

But in the early 90s I was at an event attended by a VIP, and we were politely asked to clear our desks because his wife was a kleptomaniac, and it'd be terribly embarrasing for her and everybody else if she was compelled to swipe something. It was made pretty clear that it was completely beyond her conscious control, and that having a bunch of people watching her wouldn't be any deterrent, and that detection could cause her to behave erratically and irrationally.

Not saying that's what happened here - just saying that some people really do seem to be unable to stop themselves.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:32 PM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think even if someone could tell you she had condition X or disorder Y, it still wouldn't make the situation any less confusing.

They probably decided to play a trick or base a dare on the strange guy with the pen fetish. I've been out among drunk strangers who've tried to steal my hat, or pick a fight with a passer-by, or whatever they think is funny at the time. Sounds like they thought they'd have a go at winding you up, especially as you got your pens back rather than stolen.
posted by mippy at 4:30 AM on November 7, 2011


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