My dad told me all guys were like Parker from Buffy... but they aren't, right?

October 30, 2011 7:09 AM

How do I figure out if a guy is actually interested in DATING me? Because if I hear "I'm just not ready for a relationship" one more time, I think I'll scream.

24 year old straight chick. So, I'm annoyed. For the past two years, since breaking up with my first-ever BF, the only (single) guys I have liked- as in, been both mentally and physically attracted to- have either 1. turned me down/expressed no interest, or, for the two who didn't, 2. acted like they liked me, and then broken it off after a month or two without ever even letting me say we were dating. They just wanted to fuck. I did not know this. (I know two isn't a ton, but I was living in a smallish college town with few single guys. I've recently moved someplace bigger.) (These guys were 25 and 30, so not undergrads.)

I would like to point out, at this point, that I am not clingy at all. If I have started a relationship with a guy I will text him MAYBE once a day, and stop if he doesn't respond. I won't try to hang out every day- once a week is fine if he's busy, though I'd prefer 2 or 3 times. I have been assured by many that I am a nice, reasonable, cool, interesting person- but when the guy you're starting to fall for pulls the "so I'm not actually looking for a girlfriend" card... and then it happens again a few months later... well, you start to lose your romantic confidence and wonder if it IS you after all.

In neither case was this an issue of us beginning to date and then it just not working out. I realize (only in retrospect) that, even if there was a 'date' involved, these guys were only calling me up to have sex, and not meeting up on my schedule at all. I attributed this to them being busier than me, but- urgh. They said all the right stuff about really liking me and being so happy this happened and so on, but then they cut it off when I started to express the fact that I was starting to really like them. (Not "I love you" or anything.)

The thing is... I LIKE HAVING SEX, and I really hate the idea that men "only want one thing" and I need to act like prey around them or they'll just use me... but, well, clearly I'm doing SOMETHING wrong here. I'm very frustrated and sad about this. I know I just need to 'get back on the horse' and try to date more guys, but before I do I want to figure out how I can avoid having this happen again.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. How can I, when I first meet someone I like, express the sentiment "hey it's cool if you're not exactly looking for anything serious but I don't just want to sleep with you. But I DO want to sleep with you. But not JUST."

2. Could I be doing more to attract guys who'll want to get to know me in the first place? I will admit that I am usually attracted to guys who exhibit a sexual vibe- not necessarily 'sexy,' but more of a James Spader kinda thing. Confident. In retrospect, this probably is the source of a lot of my issues, but there have GOT to be guys who are both sexual and genuinely nice. So how can I find them?

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (30 answers total)

"hey it's cool if you're not exactly looking for anything serious but I don't just want to sleep with you. But I DO want to sleep with you. But not JUST."

Have you said this, word for word, to a man you're interested in?

If not, why not?
posted by LogicalDash at 7:17 AM on October 30, 2011 [5 favorites]

1. Say the following: "You seem really interesting, and I've enjoyed our conversation. Yes, I'd be delighted to go out again - thanks for asking. I do want to let you know that I'm looking for a serious relationship (with a capital R) and not a FWB, casual thing, or fuck buddy. What are you looking for?"

2. Put off sleeping with them until you have gotten to know them. You'll know by then if they are boyfriend material. And make a list of what you are looking for, and dont consider your list sufficient until you have eliminated guys on the basis of it.
posted by zia at 7:20 AM on October 30, 2011 [12 favorites]

Look online for guys who say specifically that they are looking for a relationship. Don't sleep with them until you're sure they're being honest about that. I get that you like sex, but if you have sex before you two are heading towards dating-land, then by definition it is "just sex."
posted by desjardins at 7:32 AM on October 30, 2011 [6 favorites]

I agree that you're probably going to have to put off sleeping with them. I wouldn't have the "what I'm looking for" talk too early, but communication about what you want at a reasonable point is going to be necessary. However, if you put off sex, guys will get the feeling that FWB or fuck buddy is off the table. So, the only left to eliminate will be the casual thing category, but you'll probably want to keep this option open until you decide you like him enough for a relationship anyways.

Good luck!
posted by superfille at 7:34 AM on October 30, 2011 [2 favorites]

31yo het guy here. Sex isn't really the issue. The issue is 1) self-awareness on the guy's part about what he wants, 2) his honesty in communicating it to you, and 3) realizing that even if we knows what he wants and he communicates it honestly, internal or external factors might make him change his mind, and he might not be fully or immediately honest about *that.*

Step one. Immediately divide guys you meet into two categories: a) possibly interested in a relationship with them, b) not interested in a relationship with them.

Step two. I know I said sex isn't really the issue, but it clouds the issue. Guys in category a), do not sleep with them for at least 2-4 weeks from the date you meet them in person for the first time. Anything besides PIV sex is ok. Guys in category b), do whatever with them.

I do the vice versa version of this as a straight guy. I call it my "one month rule." It is not foolproof, but it is an extremely helpful first line of defense in not being dumb.

Step three. Read the insane book entitled Radical Honesty. It's an extreme but useful perspective to have in your pocket.
posted by zeek321 at 7:38 AM on October 30, 2011 [12 favorites]

Wow, add many years to the age and I could have written this. I've been having the same experience! Only, the men that love me and leave me come crawling back months later. I don't want them anymore as a boyfriend, so I turn them into 'friend' and we talk. I have used them to research why this keeps happening to me.

1. It is the men, not me. For whatever reason, I attract men who like needy, broken women who manipulate them. I am very cool. I do not show up uninvited at his house. I do not call and beg for him to come over. I do not threaten to kill myself or sleep with his friend if he doesn't do what I want. I do not chase after him. So, he doesn't feel that I really care about him.

2. Part of it is me. Over the years there has only been one man that I have dated that I could see myself marrying and loving forever. All the other guys are interesting and hot and I like them a lot, but I think they can sense that I'm not 100% in to them.

I am a romantic. At the beginning of every relationship, I do that thing where I wonder if he really likes me, if he is the one, etc. I realized that I was spending so much time thinking about what he was thinking that I wasn't really paying attention to myself. Do I like him? Is he the one for me? Looking back at all the ones that wandered away, I noticed that I wasn't devastated at a single one going. I was hurt. I was sad for a couple of weeks. I was mad when I found out that he had lied. But I wasn't devastated.

So, to sum up, if you aren't in love with him, if he isn't 'the one' for you, then let him wander off. It leaves room in your life for the one who you will fight for.
posted by myselfasme at 8:12 AM on October 30, 2011 [13 favorites]

Put off sleeping with them until you have gotten to know them.

This. If you are wanting to filter for guys who aren't just looking for an immediate piece of ass, and to have an opportunity to get to know someone before getting naked, this is what you need to do.

And I like what myselfasme says about listening to yourself. Stop making it a question of "does he like me?" and more a question of "do I like him?"
posted by Forktine at 8:16 AM on October 30, 2011 [2 favorites]

I don't think you're really doing anything wrong, it's just that those guys ended up wanting different things than you.

I think the only thing you could do differently would be to tell them exactly what you're looking for earlier on. You can't really prevent guys from not dating you any more after you have sex with them, but if you're honest in the beginning i think you'll have better luck getting what you want.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:18 AM on October 30, 2011

Oh honey, that "I'm not looking for a relationship right now" is a classic euphemism. I've heard it from: a guy who turned out to be gay; a guy who tried to get back with the woman he dated prior to me the very next week; a host of guys I met off the "Relationship" section of various dating sites; and any number of guys who jumped feet first into a full-fledged relationship with the very next woman they met. Guys think it's more palatable than "You just don't do it for me", and so they say it, but it's a lie. Don't even bother trying to be friends with a guy who says that to you, because it's just going to make you resentful when he promptly gets a girlfriend and is all goo-ga over her.

Now, about not wanting to be used. Plenty of guys will only tell a woman they "aren't looking for a relationship" and/or promise to be friends but never call her again after they've slept with her, so make sure you're on the same page before you have sex. And it's up to you, but I'd say if a guy you really like doesn't want to get involved with you, don't sleep with him. If he doesn't value you enough to want to make you a real part of his life, then he probably can't be trusted to value you enough to treat you well after you've been intimate with him.

How do you know if a guy really likes you? Not only will he want to be your boyfriend, but he'll be eager and willing to spend time with you. He'll regularly make some time to spend with you even if he's busy. He'll do things for you. When you're seeing someone, a sure barometer to the interest you both feel for each other is the ratio of how often the guy initiates contact/makes efforts to do things for you or with you vs. how often you do it. If he's not meeting you halfway, you like him more than he likes you. In such situations it's generally better to scale back your efforts, which will either get the guy to step up or cause whatever's between you to die a quick and natural death.

And yes, it's disappointing when a guy doesn't like you or want to be a real part of your life. The best way to insulate yourself from that kind of disappointment is to go out and mingle so you meet lots of guys. With lots of potential Mr. Rights around, it gets easier to manage your expectations and sucks a lot less to have one turn out to be a dead end.

How do you meet guys? Dating sites are worth a shot, but you should also make sure you're socially active and build a good social network. Go out with your friends. Entertain, because a) your friends will often want to bring friends to your parties and b) once you invited people to your home they are socially obligated to entertain you in return, which means you'll get to meet more people at their parties. Look for social ways to pursue your interests. Take classes in things that interest you. If you like running, join a running club. If you like to knit, don't just knit in front of the TV — join a knitting club. Yes, generally only women join knitting clubs, but if you make new friends, one of them might have a brother or a male friend who'd be perfect for you. I'd recommend that you make your goal "making new friends and having fun" rather than "meeting a man who would be right for me", because the first goal is readily achievable and will very likely lead to the second, while the second may only frustrate you.

And I know it's all very frustrating, but remember that you are young and the odds are on your side. Trust yourself, don't waste time on guys who don't care about you, be mindful about your decisions, and you'll be pretty sure to get what you want or at least have a relatively full and enjoyable life.
posted by orange swan at 8:20 AM on October 30, 2011 [42 favorites]

Be more "clingy." If a guy is looking for a relationship with you, he's going to want to see yo more than once a week. Not necessarily right after you've just met him, but by the time you get to the stage of sleeping with him, definitely. Don't think of it as acting like prey, think of it as expressing what you want--your actions would certainly confuse me into thinking you might not be looking for a relationship.

And don't read too much into any of the advice here. Your question is well-written and self-aware, and you're not talking about a large number of men. So don't go changing too much about yourself based on any of this advice--I would bet things work out well for you anyways.
posted by _Silky_ at 8:26 AM on October 30, 2011 [9 favorites]

1. How can I, when I first meet someone I like, express the sentiment "hey it's cool if you're not exactly looking for anything serious but I don't just want to sleep with you. But I DO want to sleep with you. But not JUST."


This is weird phrasing and I think it might be confusing some people commenting as to what you really want. You say "hey it's cool if you're not looking for something serious" but it's NOT cool right? I mean, it sounds like you don't want to do casual hook ups with guys. It sounds like you're thinking that guys will immediately think if you're sleeping with them, then you're sending them a message that you are OK with not being serious.

I felt a lot like this when I was 24 -- it's a weird time, because I feel like guys can be more serious in college, despite the reputation. I too had a serious relationship when I was in college, and then the next few years after college I felt like there were some guys who were just playing games and trying to take advantage.

I think you might just have to suffer through some of these. Sleep with them if you want to, not out of any strategy. If they've got some kind of issue with that or take it as some kind of approval of a casual relationship, that's crappy but just don't get yourself thinking all guys are like this.
The truth is you're not going to know if after x amount of time a guy IS going to be all, "Look, I'm not into a relationship..."That's their deal and I don't know if you're doing anything to encourage it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're not.
posted by sweetkid at 8:27 AM on October 30, 2011 [3 favorites]

I've been in the situation where I slept with someone too soon (second date). I don't think we were going to last anyway, but that didn't help. It's not that I'm into waiting for more of a challenge, but we just didn't know each other very well yet. So, I do agree with people who say to give it a few weeks and in the meantime get to know them better.

But, this won't be foolproof. This is two guys -- way too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions. I think zeek321 nailed it when he said there are several possible issues: the guy's awareness of what he wants, the guy's honesty and communication with you, and changes in what the guys wants over time.

If these guys were and the guys you continue to date turn out to be lying douches, you're doing something wrong. But it's equally possible (maybe even more likely) that they just didn't know what they wanted or changed their minds about what they wanted. Sometimes you meet someone and you like them, but then after a while you realize you're not as compatible as you thought and you don't like them as much as you thought you did. That's normal. That's dating. A couple months is a pretty normal time to realize you're not as serious as the other person and cut things off.

On re-reading your question, it's not clear if these guys were just booty calling you. You say they took you on dates and told you they liked you, so it's not clear what you now see that shows they never considered themselves to be dating you -- something about it being on their schedules? Obviously, watch for this warning flag.
posted by J. Wilson at 8:35 AM on October 30, 2011 [2 favorites]

It's dating. It's more misses than hits. If you're batting 0-2, I'm not sure you're in problem territory just yet as far as needing to change up your behavior.

If you enjoy sex, have sex. As far as a guy being long-term interested in someone, early sex is not really a factor one way or the other. At least in my case.

Also, it's entirely possible that the two guys you dated were interested in finding a longer-term partner. But you didn't fit the bill. Again: No problem -- that's dating.

Keep trying. I'm not sure your having a problem beyond what anyone dating would experience.
posted by chasing at 8:36 AM on October 30, 2011 [3 favorites]

"clearly I'm doing SOMETHING wrong here. "

I don't think you are; I remember that as a sort-of rotten age for dating. The first round of marrieds have married off after college, and there are a lot of men who act like a) every woman wants to sleep with them and then b) "oh no, now she'll want a relationship and be a clingy sitcom psycho!" I found men very aggravating friends at that age ... and it magically disappeared when I got engaged and they started treating me like a person again instead of like someone who wanted to sleep with them (yay!) and then someone who would cling to them like crazy (boo!). NEITHER OF THESE THINGS WAS TRUE, but it made them act like crazy people.

I think a lot of genuinely nice guys at this age, the ones who are looking for relationships, and who are reasonably in touch with themselves and don't routinely behave like crazy people, don't bring up sex on the first couple of dates, so you might not find the vibe you're after on the first couple dates. (I do not know what a James Spader thing is.) Many genuinely nice guys are either conscious of not appearing like predators, or they are more private about their sexuality, so you may not get a "sexy" vibe right off the bat. YOU are going to have to get to know THEM too, if you want them to get to know you.

If you don't want to have sex unless you're serious with someone, you do have the option of waiting to have sex until you're series with someone. Someone who respects you will wait for you to feel comfortable in the relationship and it's not that big a deal.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:48 AM on October 30, 2011 [7 favorites]

A lot of guys are trying to sleep with as many women as they can, so if you've slept with them they have sort of gotten what they were after. These guys have just been using you for that. So you need to make it clear you're looking for a relationship before you sleep with them.
posted by jayder at 9:05 AM on October 30, 2011

"I'm just not looking for a relationship [with you] right now." is the "It's not you, it's me. [It's you.]" of the 2010s. If you can see the missing words in those phrases it will help. Dude is saying things to soften the blow, but basically it's just not working out for him.

Keep hunting; 0 for 2 is not enough to start worrying about much of anything.

I wouldn't worry about holding back sex or not. If you're enjoying the sex by all means keep going with it. Figuring out bedroom compatibility early on is pretty important, at least if your drive is high and you like sex.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:29 AM on October 30, 2011

I would like to point out, at this point, that I am not clingy at all. If I have started a relationship with a guy I will text him MAYBE once a day, and stop if he doesn't respond. I won't try to hang out every day- once a week is fine if he's busy, though I'd prefer 2 or 3 times.

I think you're actually approaching this backwards. You're emphasizing how accommodating you are, and how willing you are to shape your needs around what the guy wants. But I think you'd be better off taking the opposite approach - be clear about what you want. That way, you don't waste time with people who can't give you what you want. I understand the impulse not to seem too clingy, but what you're actually doing is telling them that they can walk all over you.

The thing is, you're not going to be compatible with most people you date. It's pretty hard to avoid attracting those people - the key is to learn to recognize it quickly, and to end the relationship as soon as you do.
posted by Ragged Richard at 9:34 AM on October 30, 2011 [4 favorites]

I kinda think this is normal. You don't know that the guys that slept with you weren't interested in you. You are 24...people are still pretty stupid at that age, guys particularly. Everyone is shopping around. It doesn't reflect on you, even though it's hard.

I would try to be a duck and let this stuff roll off your back instead of mourning things that never really started. Really hard advice, but I think you'd be better off to keep trying, while keeping your wits about you.
posted by sully75 at 9:42 AM on October 30, 2011 [1 favorite]

You have my sympathy. Dating is a painful, and yet sometimes rewarding, crap-shoot but as someone else mentioned, two guys may or may not be a pattern. And frankly, you can be clear about what you want and you can withhold sex until you think you are both on the same page, and you might still find that you aren't getting the guys or the relationships you want. There's no magic formula to this at all.

My only specific advice (other than nthing to let it go and keep it moving) is not to say this:
"hey it's cool if you're not exactly looking for anything serious but I don't just want to sleep with you. But I DO want to sleep with you. But not JUST."

because I'm betting that if guys are even catching a whiff of that, that's probably what you might be doing wrong. You're basically setting yourself up for disaster if you are sleeping with someone you think/suspect/outright know isn't interested in anything more in hopes that he'll change his mind. This pretty much never happens, and yes, quite a few men will take advantage. You either are okay with casual sex which may or may not lead to a relationship, or you are not. You cannot be both.
posted by sm1tten at 10:06 AM on October 30, 2011 [1 favorite]

I think these are just guys you aren't clicking with. When and how much sex you have with them isn't going to change anything. Men who like you aren't going to be less likely to have a relationship with you because you have sex with them; that might have been a thing 50 years ago but most men do not have a whore/Madonna complex.

Really, the only issue here is if you regret sleeping with those guys. If that's the case, the problem is that you're willing to do something you don't want to in hopes they'll "like" you. Like I said, sex isn't going to change the issue: either they like you want to both date and have sex with you, or they're not really into you and just want to have sex with you.
posted by spaltavian at 10:07 AM on October 30, 2011 [1 favorite]

As much as I hate having to say it because it totally perpetuates a bunch of stereotypes, don't have sex with them so fast. It will weed out a lot of guys and it will also likely make you less emotionally involved so you won't be so upset if it ends and you'll probably find it easier to walk away if you don't like the direction the relationship is going.
posted by whoaali at 10:12 AM on October 30, 2011 [1 favorite]

I think sleeping with someone quickly if you're looking for a relationship is a mistake, and not because most guys will lose respect for you if you do. But more because it's sort of anticlimactic. There's a feeling of almost "now what" or "is that all there is?" after you have sex with a virtual stranger.
posted by timsneezed at 10:20 AM on October 30, 2011 [2 favorites]

Is it really so clingy to express your needs? You seem reasonable in your requests. Clingy to me is when someone corners you into going out with them constantly asking when are we gonna hang out and putting out ultimatums that aren't nice. And calling or texting like mad, then getting upset if the other person doesn't respond in time. That's clingy. You, are just setting rules for what you want out of a relationship. Follow the man's lead. If he ain't serious about you, guess what? You ain't serious about HIM.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 10:24 AM on October 30, 2011

1. How can I, when I first meet someone I like, express the sentiment "hey it's cool if you're not exactly looking for anything serious but I don't just want to sleep with you. But I DO want to sleep with you. But not JUST."

Lot's of good advice above, but be careful here. You sound like you're someone who likes sex but doesn't like NSA sex, which is totally fine. What you should not be doing is suggesting you're up for something casual just because you're worried about scaring guys away when you're actually looking for something more serious.

I'm a mid-late twenties straight dude, and I think I know the situations you've described. Say I've been on a couple dates with a new girl and things end up in bed. If the sex is good and we haven't had any kind of relationship conversation, I'm probably going to keep dating/sleeping with her for a while even if I'm not sure if she's someone I'd want to date seriously.

Now, there's nothing wrong with situations like that, and a couple women that I've ended up in relationships with have started out that way. But if you want to avoid feeling like you're being used for sex, there's only one way around it: if you're dating a guy who you think has potential, tell him before you have sex that you don't need things to get serious but you only sleep with guys who aren't sleeping with other people.

Is this going to scare guys off? Sure. But it's mostly going to scare the guys off who were just sticking around to see if they could get laid without committing to anything. And it's a much better situation than letting guys think you want something casual and then being disappointed when they treat you, well, casually.

I know what a lot of my (woman) friends do is have two standards for men: sleep around with guys who you don't see yourself dating seriously, so you won't be disappointed if they fuck off; if you think a guy has potential, make sure he's actually interested before (all) the clothes come off. YMMV.
posted by auto-correct at 11:29 AM on October 30, 2011 [9 favorites]

I see this as two separate issues: you like sex, and want to keep having it.... yet that is complicating your love life.

Have you thought about establishing a classic FWB arrangement with someone you trust but don't want to date? Kind of like the casual hook-ups that auto-correct's friends have?

Dating (the process of trying to meet good guys and then figure out if you are emotionally, mentally and physically attracted enough to go forward in a relationship) can really interfere with getting laid. It can take weeks or months to get to know someone's relationship potential well enough to know whether it's worth going all the way—which can really derail the developing emotional dynamics if done too soon. What's a healthy, red-blooded 24-year-old to do in the interim? Masturbation delivers the nuts and bolts but of course it's not the same as actual sex with another person.

Plus, being horny can really cloud one's judgment while dating. You meet someone, and he's kind of a cad but he's totally putting off the Spader vibe... and your gut says "run run run" but your loins say "stay stay stay...c'mon please it's been six weeks and this guy is melt-worthy". After a couple fun weeks when the oxytocin burns off, you realize that your gut was right, and sure enough, Pseudo-Spader is "not ready for a relationship right now."

Of course there are emotional risks to FWB. But it's possible that if you found someone with whom you could explicitly lay out boundaries ("only while we we're both not in a relationship... safety first... be respectful of the other person's time... no date-like activities...", that sort of thing), it would free up your physical desires so that you can really focus on the emotional and mental suitability of potential boyfriends while you're out there looking.
posted by pineapple at 12:21 PM on October 30, 2011

I had to learn the hard way that a dude saying he wasn't interested in a relationship (which really was fine with me, the idea of being in a serious relationship stressed me out when I was in my 20s) was code for: I want to put little effort into relating to you as a person and will view sex as something I'm entitled to in spite of this lack of effort.

There are awesome dudes out there who are fun to be with and won't lay all of this on you, but you will have to sort through a lot of the type described above. And it's totally the above dudes' faults that you have to have your guard up about wanting to have sex w a guy without pretending to be totes in love (and not ruling out the possibility of true love 4-eva in the future). Don't worry about being clingy or whatevs, you shouldn't have to compromise your sense of self in order to get laid.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 12:58 PM on October 30, 2011

Tell them you're looking for more than casual fuckery early on, like date two or three, and have a conversation over dinner about what each of you is looking for in a relationship. It's a lot easier to do this before sex, because each of you have less to lose. After, there's an incentive to put off what has at that point become The Conversation.
posted by zippy at 1:24 PM on October 30, 2011

" acted like they liked me, and then broken it off after a month or two without ever even letting me say we were dating."

I'm in a good relationship now, at 30... having had very little experience before, sexually or otherwise, in terms of a LTR- BUT having had A LOT of men buy me drinks, call, come buy and text me, and ask me out ... they are never that confusing ... if they won't say you're dating- then you're not dating....
posted by misspony at 3:07 PM on October 30, 2011

clearly I'm doing SOMETHING wrong here.

Seriously, you have 3 datapoints. That's just noise, not enough to draw conclusions from, let alone "clearly" ones.

Only a minority of people that you meet are people that you are attracted to. This is normal, and a consequence of that being normal is that most people you are attracted to, won't be interested in you. So the fact that several other guys were uninterested doesn't mean much either.

It's good that you know what you want and you're trying to be your best about it - keep doing that, but don't stress over it. You don't need to assume you're doing something wrong. It is spectacularly difficult for almost everyone to find what they're looking for in the turbulent murky waters of the dating scene. Odds are you're going to have a lot of experiences that don't work out the way you wanted. Don't sweat it. Roll with it. It just comes with the territory of finding what you're after.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:00 PM on October 30, 2011

Call me old fashion but I think sex does confuse people on the topic of "serious or not". It's hard enough to know about a person in a month time without being together all the time, stick to the dating and hanging out, slowly build the relationship and just focus on that.
posted by artofgiving at 11:47 PM on November 7, 2011