Bands that sound like Destroyer but don't rhyme (or rhyme better)?
October 6, 2011 1:04 PM Subscribe
So I listened to Destroyer's Rubies and thought it was perfect, except for the irritating need they feel to force awkward, thoughtless rhymes into the lyrics.
I love the sprawling, storylike nature of the lyrics. I love the way the music plays with the storytelling, providing texture and taking narrative lead in a few places. I love the distortion. I love the grating voice of the lead. I love the rich varriation in tone and cadance.
But those stupid rhymes! Those stupid, thoughtless, vomitted out of gradeschooler rhymes!
Please don't wake me from this - my golden slumber -
I am proud to be a part of this number!
ugh.
Is there an album or period Destroyer goes through where they eschew all rhyming? Is there a band with the exact same sound that rhymes better or not at all? Because I can't listen to this, even though it's exactly the kind of thing I really, really, really want to listen to.
I love the sprawling, storylike nature of the lyrics. I love the way the music plays with the storytelling, providing texture and taking narrative lead in a few places. I love the distortion. I love the grating voice of the lead. I love the rich varriation in tone and cadance.
But those stupid rhymes! Those stupid, thoughtless, vomitted out of gradeschooler rhymes!
Please don't wake me from this - my golden slumber -
I am proud to be a part of this number!
ugh.
Is there an album or period Destroyer goes through where they eschew all rhyming? Is there a band with the exact same sound that rhymes better or not at all? Because I can't listen to this, even though it's exactly the kind of thing I really, really, really want to listen to.
Current 93 might fit the bill, although they (well, he) tend towards being darker and more lo-fi. You might want to start out with their compilation Judas as Black Moth, or with one of their major albums such as Thunder Perfect Mind, Black Ships Ate the Sky, or Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre. I guess their most Destroyer-esque album would be Island, which is a fairly dense album with some dense electronics underneath it.
Whatever else you might say about C93's lyrics, they're certainly not cliched, or even easy.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:51 PM on October 6, 2011
Whatever else you might say about C93's lyrics, they're certainly not cliched, or even easy.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:51 PM on October 6, 2011
Response by poster: Mr_roboto, the couplet's rhyme is (in my subjective opinion etc.) forced, meaningless, and jarring. The song would be much improved without it (in my subjective opinion etc.).
More specifically:
It sounds to my ears as though the lyrics were bent and distorted in order to insert the rhyme, and little thought was given to what that couplet brought to the table aside from the rhyme. The primary concept behind the quoted couplet as it was written appears to be, "Hey! Slumber and Number rhyme! Lookit that!" I'd prefer it if the primary idea of the couplet was, "how can I best put a capstone on this portrait of an ambiguous, seductive nightmare dreamscape and the themes of loss, desire, love, life and death that run through the rest of this song?"
It's beyond frustrating to hear turds like that dropping in the middle of generally great lyrics.
And "Golden slumber" is more of a cliche than "part of this number."
posted by jsturgill at 2:20 PM on October 6, 2011
More specifically:
It sounds to my ears as though the lyrics were bent and distorted in order to insert the rhyme, and little thought was given to what that couplet brought to the table aside from the rhyme. The primary concept behind the quoted couplet as it was written appears to be, "Hey! Slumber and Number rhyme! Lookit that!" I'd prefer it if the primary idea of the couplet was, "how can I best put a capstone on this portrait of an ambiguous, seductive nightmare dreamscape and the themes of loss, desire, love, life and death that run through the rest of this song?"
It's beyond frustrating to hear turds like that dropping in the middle of generally great lyrics.
And "Golden slumber" is more of a cliche than "part of this number."
posted by jsturgill at 2:20 PM on October 6, 2011
This is tough! Destroyer is pretty much my favourite band and Bejar's obsessive recycling of rock cliches is really his defining feature--his pre-Rubies records are even more lyrically scattershot in a way that I'm pretty sure you won't like, and his more recent records have moved away a bit from the sound of Rubies. Do check out the new one, Kaputt, if "postmodern smooth jazz/soft rock" sounds at all like something you'd want to hear though. Think saxophone solos.
In terms of recommendations, pre-Berlin David Bowie might be an obvious answer but it's pretty much exactly what you want as far as I can tell. If you're looking for more indie-leaning stuff, maybe try some late-period (Smog) records, or Silver Jews. The Clientele? Lambchop?
also a lot of the folks Bejar collaborates with share a similar-ish sensibility. I'm thinking the New Pornographers/AC Newman, Frog Eyes and Wolf Parade/Sunset Rubdown.
posted by tealsocks at 2:22 PM on October 6, 2011
In terms of recommendations, pre-Berlin David Bowie might be an obvious answer but it's pretty much exactly what you want as far as I can tell. If you're looking for more indie-leaning stuff, maybe try some late-period (Smog) records, or Silver Jews. The Clientele? Lambchop?
also a lot of the folks Bejar collaborates with share a similar-ish sensibility. I'm thinking the New Pornographers/AC Newman, Frog Eyes and Wolf Parade/Sunset Rubdown.
posted by tealsocks at 2:22 PM on October 6, 2011
I tend to prefer Bejar's work as part of the New Pornographers to his Destroyer output. He only sings lead on a few songs on each Pornographer's album -- the rest are more-than-ably handled by Neko Case and AC Newman. Also, Frog Eyes have done a lot of collaboration w/ Bejar/Destroyer.
As for similar acts... I'm thinking maybe Atlas Sound and/or the Strange Boys.
posted by patnasty at 2:37 PM on October 6, 2011
As for similar acts... I'm thinking maybe Atlas Sound and/or the Strange Boys.
posted by patnasty at 2:37 PM on October 6, 2011
Holy shit, I can't believe someone's actually asking me to interpret Destroyer lyrics! Am I dreaming?
Anyway, let's—
First of all we start with the assumption that Dan Bejar is a genius, and his output as Destroyer is the outward-facing product of his genius. This, after all, is how Dan Bejar approaches the matter. Everything he does is so utterly epic that it must constantly be referred to, it is the canyon that every other great thing in the universe is bounced off of, and so you hear echoes of those things in his music. It is endlessly referential, deep in meaning, and obliquely interpreted.
Now, Rubies is the 9-minute lead track on a full-length album called Destroyer's Rubies by a band called Destroyer, as if you didn't already know. It's everything on this album, it's all you should listen to, it's the point of going to all the trouble of writing and recording a bunch of other pop claptrap (that I dearly love, let's be straight here) and putting out an album and touring forever. This is Bejar's Reason for putting out music, he's defining himself and this album and justifying it's place relative to his own previous music as well as the easily-spotted and oft-cited influences we all can recite by heart *coughpre-Berlin Bowiecough*. As such I believe you can infer that everything about it was carefully considered by Bejar before being included.
Therefore your belief that the lyrics are forced around the 'gradeschooler rhymes' can't be true. What do they mean, then? What's Bejar on about with all these references and these obtuse lyrics? Sure they rhyme, but they also reason.
Dueling cyclones jackknife
They got eyes for your wife and the blood that lives in her heart
Bejar calls on us to imagine danger approaching. He's describing his relationship with you, the listener, as two cyclones in a duel and there's no holds barred. Nothing's sacred for us, apparently, as critical listeners or appreciators, or whatever we represent as the other end of the whole music business, and so nothing's gonna be sacred for him either. Permission granted to steal from influences and make dumb jokes and stupid rhymes and screech and yowl all the more!
Cast myself towards infinity
The song starts just before these lyrics and oop! There he goes, off the deep end! There's a theme of being carried away here, of excess and wonderment and frivolity.
Trust me, i had my reasons
Had a dress for every season, it was worth it
Pulled into town relatively free of hassle
Secured a room at the castle, it paid for itself
Checked out my surroundings, headed down to thornton park
Bejar loves to talk about where he lives, places he visits, and his big move across Canada early in his career. He'll go on about this crap at length. He's placing himself at a particular time and place for this album, setting the scene for these songs that are very much about his experiences and feelings about the people he interacts with. It's never very specific, and it may very well be all or in-part fictional, but it's a dreamy place in my imagination, like a misty, seedy city.
Find your way
Discover that things are dark
Shadowy figures babbling on about typical rural shit
I wave bye to them in a modern way and increase my stay at the dock of the bay
Describing and dismissing whatever scene he's thinking about, pulling curtains down on his little peep into the past and excusing himself for his reminisces, Bejar gets busy and gets on with it with a reference to his previous work (modern dance) and a blatant nod to Otis Redding. This is a way to both continue with his ingenuity and claim to be moving on to something else. Heh. Jokes!
Quiet, ruby, someone's coming
Approach with stealth
Oh, it's just your precious american underground
And it is born of wealth
With not a writer in the lot
Pitchfork dig, almost certainly.
Sapphires vie for your attention
Cheap dancers they mean well in their way
But seriously, assuming Bejar is Serious about his Music, these lyrics are all about his relationship with the audience in all its forms, casual listening, super-fan, radio DJ, blogger, critic, whatever. It's a distraction for him, and a temptation.
But priest says - "please, i can't stand my knees and i can't bear her raven tresses caught up in the breeze like that!"
Foreshadowing this time with the priest, as the last track on the album is Sick Priest Learns to Last Forever, a cleverly named closer. Bejar isn't going to kneel to his audience, or to critics, he's just going to go on doing whatever the fuck he think sounds good, and be damned if it can't make him a living and maybe buy him the nice bourbon.
Blessed doctor, do your worst
Cut me open, remove this thirst
I've long taken this as an invitation from Bejar to me, as a fan and vocal apologist for him and his music, to go on at length about his oeuvre and it's obscure meanings. As much as he hates to admit it, he also needs to see that people care enough to make up silly excuses for his ridiculous lyrics and byzantine-osity. So...
Hidden, but near
A series of visions, i won't repeat them here
I won't repeat them here
This is just more jokes, because of course he's going to repeat it here. The callbacks will be endless, and there'll be plenty of original meat besides that he can plunder on future releases. There's not really a plan, but there's a game to play, connecting everything and drawing your own big picture with these words as the dots and your imagination the connecting lines.
Typical me, typical me
I gave my cargo to the sea
I gave the water what it always wanted to be
Again, he's admitting being carried away. And this repetition of the theme isn't him reminding himself, it's telling us to give in and sway, to listen and sing along and pirate-chant your way with him through his musical adventure. Sure, this is totally whimsical, but, er, that's the point!
Look to the west!
"ah, look, it's no contest" - proud mary said as she lit the fuse
"i wanted you. i wanted your blues"
Your blues
Um, immediately contradicting himself by talking about places he's been, the west, presumably Vancouver. And dropping a gratuitous self-reference. Repeatedly. LOL! Call it wankery, but I think it's genuinely funny and adds to the music.
"all good things must come to an end
The bad ones just go on forever"
Isn't that what i just said?
It is now and it is never
It is now and it is never
It is now and it is never
It is now and it is never
Wordplay, again in the theme of being carried away forever, repetition (funny how that theme keeps turning up), and ok yeah it's a bit gradeschoolish. There's 9 freakin' minutes to fill in this song, give a guy a break!
Don't worry about her
She's been known to appreciate the elegance of an empty room
Look, i made you this broom
A predicate warning to the sun -
"this night advances on..."
Really honestly at this point it's ridiculous. He's going through his previous albums, in this case This Night, offering the possibility that there's no real reason to his rhymes. This Night was supposedly recorded with very little practice, and musicians were encouraged to groove and go with the flow. Bejar's saying that there's probably a bit of those same hijinks going on in Rubies, and he's contradicting himself like, several times, and it just continues the repetition.
The sketchy crowd shows me drawings, they're alright
An alternately dim and frightful waste
Now come on honey let's go outside
You disrupt the world's disorder just by virtue of your grace, you know...
I didn't want to go, but leave i must...
As gratifying as this dust was
Of course, the live scene plays a huge part in Destroyer's and thus Bejar's existence and is maybe a larger component of his music overall than recordings, so it makes sense to pay a bit of tribute to the road here. A little poetry about where all these snippets of life are from, an acknowledgement for the crowd during shows.
Please don't wake me from this - my golden slumber -
I am proud to be a part of this number!
And finally, your gradeschooler rhyme. Bejar is flat-out admitting that he's gone delusional with the self-referential torrent of lyrics, he's carried away once again and he doesn't want to be rescued. Sing, don't sing, hate it, don't understand it, don't care to understand it, whatever, but if you're gonna dismiss it then don't tell him, he's busy being carried away by the music. It's his job, it's his delusion, his slumber, and it's what he loves.
TL;DR - Shut up about it already and sing along!
posted by carsonb at 4:17 PM on October 6, 2011 [6 favorites]
Anyway, let's—
First of all we start with the assumption that Dan Bejar is a genius, and his output as Destroyer is the outward-facing product of his genius. This, after all, is how Dan Bejar approaches the matter. Everything he does is so utterly epic that it must constantly be referred to, it is the canyon that every other great thing in the universe is bounced off of, and so you hear echoes of those things in his music. It is endlessly referential, deep in meaning, and obliquely interpreted.
Now, Rubies is the 9-minute lead track on a full-length album called Destroyer's Rubies by a band called Destroyer, as if you didn't already know. It's everything on this album, it's all you should listen to, it's the point of going to all the trouble of writing and recording a bunch of other pop claptrap (that I dearly love, let's be straight here) and putting out an album and touring forever. This is Bejar's Reason for putting out music, he's defining himself and this album and justifying it's place relative to his own previous music as well as the easily-spotted and oft-cited influences we all can recite by heart *coughpre-Berlin Bowiecough*. As such I believe you can infer that everything about it was carefully considered by Bejar before being included.
Therefore your belief that the lyrics are forced around the 'gradeschooler rhymes' can't be true. What do they mean, then? What's Bejar on about with all these references and these obtuse lyrics? Sure they rhyme, but they also reason.
Dueling cyclones jackknife
They got eyes for your wife and the blood that lives in her heart
Bejar calls on us to imagine danger approaching. He's describing his relationship with you, the listener, as two cyclones in a duel and there's no holds barred. Nothing's sacred for us, apparently, as critical listeners or appreciators, or whatever we represent as the other end of the whole music business, and so nothing's gonna be sacred for him either. Permission granted to steal from influences and make dumb jokes and stupid rhymes and screech and yowl all the more!
Cast myself towards infinity
The song starts just before these lyrics and oop! There he goes, off the deep end! There's a theme of being carried away here, of excess and wonderment and frivolity.
Trust me, i had my reasons
Had a dress for every season, it was worth it
Pulled into town relatively free of hassle
Secured a room at the castle, it paid for itself
Checked out my surroundings, headed down to thornton park
Bejar loves to talk about where he lives, places he visits, and his big move across Canada early in his career. He'll go on about this crap at length. He's placing himself at a particular time and place for this album, setting the scene for these songs that are very much about his experiences and feelings about the people he interacts with. It's never very specific, and it may very well be all or in-part fictional, but it's a dreamy place in my imagination, like a misty, seedy city.
Find your way
Discover that things are dark
Shadowy figures babbling on about typical rural shit
I wave bye to them in a modern way and increase my stay at the dock of the bay
Describing and dismissing whatever scene he's thinking about, pulling curtains down on his little peep into the past and excusing himself for his reminisces, Bejar gets busy and gets on with it with a reference to his previous work (modern dance) and a blatant nod to Otis Redding. This is a way to both continue with his ingenuity and claim to be moving on to something else. Heh. Jokes!
Quiet, ruby, someone's coming
Approach with stealth
Oh, it's just your precious american underground
And it is born of wealth
With not a writer in the lot
Pitchfork dig, almost certainly.
Sapphires vie for your attention
Cheap dancers they mean well in their way
But seriously, assuming Bejar is Serious about his Music, these lyrics are all about his relationship with the audience in all its forms, casual listening, super-fan, radio DJ, blogger, critic, whatever. It's a distraction for him, and a temptation.
But priest says - "please, i can't stand my knees and i can't bear her raven tresses caught up in the breeze like that!"
Foreshadowing this time with the priest, as the last track on the album is Sick Priest Learns to Last Forever, a cleverly named closer. Bejar isn't going to kneel to his audience, or to critics, he's just going to go on doing whatever the fuck he think sounds good, and be damned if it can't make him a living and maybe buy him the nice bourbon.
Blessed doctor, do your worst
Cut me open, remove this thirst
I've long taken this as an invitation from Bejar to me, as a fan and vocal apologist for him and his music, to go on at length about his oeuvre and it's obscure meanings. As much as he hates to admit it, he also needs to see that people care enough to make up silly excuses for his ridiculous lyrics and byzantine-osity. So...
Hidden, but near
A series of visions, i won't repeat them here
I won't repeat them here
This is just more jokes, because of course he's going to repeat it here. The callbacks will be endless, and there'll be plenty of original meat besides that he can plunder on future releases. There's not really a plan, but there's a game to play, connecting everything and drawing your own big picture with these words as the dots and your imagination the connecting lines.
Typical me, typical me
I gave my cargo to the sea
I gave the water what it always wanted to be
Again, he's admitting being carried away. And this repetition of the theme isn't him reminding himself, it's telling us to give in and sway, to listen and sing along and pirate-chant your way with him through his musical adventure. Sure, this is totally whimsical, but, er, that's the point!
Look to the west!
"ah, look, it's no contest" - proud mary said as she lit the fuse
"i wanted you. i wanted your blues"
Your blues
Um, immediately contradicting himself by talking about places he's been, the west, presumably Vancouver. And dropping a gratuitous self-reference. Repeatedly. LOL! Call it wankery, but I think it's genuinely funny and adds to the music.
"all good things must come to an end
The bad ones just go on forever"
Isn't that what i just said?
It is now and it is never
It is now and it is never
It is now and it is never
It is now and it is never
Wordplay, again in the theme of being carried away forever, repetition (funny how that theme keeps turning up), and ok yeah it's a bit gradeschoolish. There's 9 freakin' minutes to fill in this song, give a guy a break!
Don't worry about her
She's been known to appreciate the elegance of an empty room
Look, i made you this broom
A predicate warning to the sun -
"this night advances on..."
Really honestly at this point it's ridiculous. He's going through his previous albums, in this case This Night, offering the possibility that there's no real reason to his rhymes. This Night was supposedly recorded with very little practice, and musicians were encouraged to groove and go with the flow. Bejar's saying that there's probably a bit of those same hijinks going on in Rubies, and he's contradicting himself like, several times, and it just continues the repetition.
The sketchy crowd shows me drawings, they're alright
An alternately dim and frightful waste
Now come on honey let's go outside
You disrupt the world's disorder just by virtue of your grace, you know...
I didn't want to go, but leave i must...
As gratifying as this dust was
Of course, the live scene plays a huge part in Destroyer's and thus Bejar's existence and is maybe a larger component of his music overall than recordings, so it makes sense to pay a bit of tribute to the road here. A little poetry about where all these snippets of life are from, an acknowledgement for the crowd during shows.
Please don't wake me from this - my golden slumber -
I am proud to be a part of this number!
And finally, your gradeschooler rhyme. Bejar is flat-out admitting that he's gone delusional with the self-referential torrent of lyrics, he's carried away once again and he doesn't want to be rescued. Sing, don't sing, hate it, don't understand it, don't care to understand it, whatever, but if you're gonna dismiss it then don't tell him, he's busy being carried away by the music. It's his job, it's his delusion, his slumber, and it's what he loves.
TL;DR - Shut up about it already and sing along!
posted by carsonb at 4:17 PM on October 6, 2011 [6 favorites]
Anyway, sorry I didn't really answer your question there.
Try Streethawk: A Seduction. The references aren't quite as frivolous, morelike fervent and heartfelt.
posted by carsonb at 4:29 PM on October 6, 2011
Try Streethawk: A Seduction. The references aren't quite as frivolous, morelike fervent and heartfelt.
posted by carsonb at 4:29 PM on October 6, 2011
Response by poster: Carsonb, I get the intent of the lyrics. Even the intent of the lyrics that rhyme! But I think his approach to rhyme is an amazingly poor and self-evidently thoughtless one made worse by a delivery that seems custom-made to emphasize their shallowness (rather than allowing more forgiving descriptions that might otherwise be used, like "playfulness").
All of your examples (excepting the "all good things must come to an end" bit) bug the hell out of me. "Look, I made you this broom?" God help us all. What's your argument for saying that's the best way for him to convey what you describe? Because I don't see that in anything you wrote. Hell, what's your argument for that being a good way to convey it? Because it doesn't seem like a good way to say anything except "I don't respect myself or my audience."
posted by jsturgill at 5:07 PM on October 6, 2011
All of your examples (excepting the "all good things must come to an end" bit) bug the hell out of me. "Look, I made you this broom?" God help us all. What's your argument for saying that's the best way for him to convey what you describe? Because I don't see that in anything you wrote. Hell, what's your argument for that being a good way to convey it? Because it doesn't seem like a good way to say anything except "I don't respect myself or my audience."
posted by jsturgill at 5:07 PM on October 6, 2011
Personally, I don't find these rhymes to be indicative of poor writing quality or in any way forced to meet some unwritten rule of song writing. It's intentional; call it artistic license. carsonb tried to elaborate on it; read into it what you will - but I think it's important to understand that the use of obvious rhymes is not a failing of Bejar as a songwriter as much as it's a conscious, decided, intentional choice. The reasoning is irrelevant.
Furthermore, his writing style is a core tenant of Destroyer's music as a whole. Throw that out and you have a completely different, and ultimately unsatisfying animal.
I'm saying this, not to be argumentative about your opinion of the rhyming per se, but to show that it is simply a part of what makes Destroyer, Destroyer.
Furthermore, it is MY opinion that you should dial back the analytical attitude a tad. After all, you are a confessed fan of everything else about Destroyer. Maybe it isn't as heinous a songwriting crime as you're making out out to be. Get over thus pet peeve and embrace the artist you love deep down.
And give Kaputt a try. It may be more to your liking.
posted by sprocket87 at 9:36 PM on October 6, 2011
Furthermore, his writing style is a core tenant of Destroyer's music as a whole. Throw that out and you have a completely different, and ultimately unsatisfying animal.
I'm saying this, not to be argumentative about your opinion of the rhyming per se, but to show that it is simply a part of what makes Destroyer, Destroyer.
Furthermore, it is MY opinion that you should dial back the analytical attitude a tad. After all, you are a confessed fan of everything else about Destroyer. Maybe it isn't as heinous a songwriting crime as you're making out out to be. Get over thus pet peeve and embrace the artist you love deep down.
And give Kaputt a try. It may be more to your liking.
posted by sprocket87 at 9:36 PM on October 6, 2011
Response by poster: You know, it's not helpful to try to argue someone into liking a certain song or kind of music. I totally believe you're 100% happy with Destroyer. I hope you can believe me when I say I'm not, and I'd like recommendations for bands that are similar except in that one way. I'm not an idiot or an inhuman analytical machine, or someone who believes songwriting has rules beyond "do what works," or whatever weird thing you think about me because I don't like a band you like. I just have different tastes. And that's great. What would life and art be if everyone liked exactly the same thing? I'm so very, very okay with you liking them just as they are. Please give me the same courtesy.
posted by jsturgill at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2011
posted by jsturgill at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2011
Sorry, you're right. I was a couple scotches in last night which didn't help.
I guess I just clued in on how you said how you thought Rubies was perfect, except for the one thing. I'm just saying maybe that one thing isn't as bad as your initial impression is making it out to be. Perhaps after some repeat listens you'll be willing to overlook that since you seem to find the rest quite enjoyable. Personally I found Destroyer entirely annoying when I first heard them, but now I really enjoy it. Call it an acquired taste.
But anyway. I can't really think of anything else to recommend that hasn't been mentioned. The spoken-word styles of Arab Strap might do something for you, though musically it's not really similar.
Again, sorry for my tone in the last post.
posted by sprocket87 at 9:02 AM on October 7, 2011
I guess I just clued in on how you said how you thought Rubies was perfect, except for the one thing. I'm just saying maybe that one thing isn't as bad as your initial impression is making it out to be. Perhaps after some repeat listens you'll be willing to overlook that since you seem to find the rest quite enjoyable. Personally I found Destroyer entirely annoying when I first heard them, but now I really enjoy it. Call it an acquired taste.
But anyway. I can't really think of anything else to recommend that hasn't been mentioned. The spoken-word styles of Arab Strap might do something for you, though musically it's not really similar.
Again, sorry for my tone in the last post.
posted by sprocket87 at 9:02 AM on October 7, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:48 PM on October 6, 2011