Exchange student in Germany with Europe visa, passport stuck in UK visa office, wanna travel to France. Can this be done?
October 4, 2011 6:27 AM Subscribe
My friend, currently in Germany as an exchange student, applied for a UK visa about 15 days ago. The expected time of arrival of the visa was estimated at 10 days. However, the visa and the passport have yet not been returned from the UK.
In the meanwhile, my friend needs to travel to France two days from now. Can she do so, carrying a copy of her passport/Europe visa and a letter from the UK visa office stating that the passport is currently in their possession? We understand that French authorities often ask people for their identification papers at random points in time - so will the documents in lieu of the passport hold water?
Response by poster: Sorry - I neglected to mention that my friend is Indian.
posted by rahulrg at 6:46 AM on October 4, 2011
posted by rahulrg at 6:46 AM on October 4, 2011
I'm not an immigration or visa specialist, but I am a (white) US citizen who's lived in the EU for going on 11 years, so I'll take a stab at it.
First, if your friend's travelling on the ground (not flying), I'd be less worried about this. AFAIK, the worst-case scenario would be that they'd be denied entry at the border and forced to remain in Germany. Inconvenient, but less so than if your friend gets 'caught' at Charles de Gaulle. Related, if the planned stay is short and near the German border, it's probably less of an issue than if he plans to travel to Hendaye (on the Spanish Border, Atlantic side) and stay for 6 weeks.
Second, I've traveled considerably between EU countries, and I don't recall ever having to have shown my passport when travelling by train or car, except when crossing from an Eastern EU country into a Western one. I have had to show my passport when flying from one EU country to another, but I don't think that's always required, either. Much more likely, but I think that for inner-EU flights, it's not always necessary.
Third, I've found the immigration officials in France to be pretty relaxed. Actually, I've found the immigration officials in all Western EU countries to be more relaxed than the ones in the UK, where they're generally a PITA.
On preview, I see that your friend is Indian, and this could be a sticking point, both on entry into and while travelling around in France. Unfortunately, your friend probably doesn't look European, so they may be more likely to attract attention.
If it were me, and I was planning a short trip just over the border in France by car or train, I'd probably risk it. In your friend's case, I'd suggest that he contact the Indian consulates in France and Germany and ask their advice before he travels.
posted by syzygy at 6:57 AM on October 4, 2011
First, if your friend's travelling on the ground (not flying), I'd be less worried about this. AFAIK, the worst-case scenario would be that they'd be denied entry at the border and forced to remain in Germany. Inconvenient, but less so than if your friend gets 'caught' at Charles de Gaulle. Related, if the planned stay is short and near the German border, it's probably less of an issue than if he plans to travel to Hendaye (on the Spanish Border, Atlantic side) and stay for 6 weeks.
Second, I've traveled considerably between EU countries, and I don't recall ever having to have shown my passport when travelling by train or car, except when crossing from an Eastern EU country into a Western one. I have had to show my passport when flying from one EU country to another, but I don't think that's always required, either. Much more likely, but I think that for inner-EU flights, it's not always necessary.
Third, I've found the immigration officials in France to be pretty relaxed. Actually, I've found the immigration officials in all Western EU countries to be more relaxed than the ones in the UK, where they're generally a PITA.
On preview, I see that your friend is Indian, and this could be a sticking point, both on entry into and while travelling around in France. Unfortunately, your friend probably doesn't look European, so they may be more likely to attract attention.
If it were me, and I was planning a short trip just over the border in France by car or train, I'd probably risk it. In your friend's case, I'd suggest that he contact the Indian consulates in France and Germany and ask their advice before he travels.
posted by syzygy at 6:57 AM on October 4, 2011
As an American living in Europe and traveling frequently, the real rub here is that France is indeed a different country than Germany. If anything were to happen in France and your friend does not have her passport, life could get rather interesting. In Germany, she is fine as she has already been granted German entry clearance, however, in France, she will essentially be traveling without valid identification.
As with so many things in life, let us say the chances of not getting caught are 99% and the chances of getting caught are 1%. That may sound fine, but the impact of that 1% chance could be life-changing in a rather negative way.
I am not sure why she 'needs' to travel to France but I would advise against this, for however small the possibilities of being caught, the impact in that event may be quite high.
Perhaps the letter would help, perhaps not. Overall, I cannot imagine what could be worth the risk of traveling across national borders without a passport. God help her if it is a guy she met at Oktoberfest who lives in Nice.
In the words of Badger, "I think you just gotta not do it man, that's all."
posted by nickrussell at 7:12 AM on October 4, 2011
As with so many things in life, let us say the chances of not getting caught are 99% and the chances of getting caught are 1%. That may sound fine, but the impact of that 1% chance could be life-changing in a rather negative way.
I am not sure why she 'needs' to travel to France but I would advise against this, for however small the possibilities of being caught, the impact in that event may be quite high.
Perhaps the letter would help, perhaps not. Overall, I cannot imagine what could be worth the risk of traveling across national borders without a passport. God help her if it is a guy she met at Oktoberfest who lives in Nice.
In the words of Badger, "I think you just gotta not do it man, that's all."
posted by nickrussell at 7:12 AM on October 4, 2011
Get her to ring her embassy in France and find out what they would advise her to do.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:22 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:22 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Germany and France belong to the Schengen Area. No passport is needed - or required - to travel from Germany to France (and back again.) No worries.
Moreover, as she is a Schengen country on a valid visa, she can travel to any other Schengen country and remain there for up to 60 days and there is no issue.
Some hotels, however, do require you to produce a passport and your friend might want to sort this out in advance.
posted by three blind mice at 7:27 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Moreover, as she is a Schengen country on a valid visa, she can travel to any other Schengen country and remain there for up to 60 days and there is no issue.
Some hotels, however, do require you to produce a passport and your friend might want to sort this out in advance.
posted by three blind mice at 7:27 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nthing calling the embassy.
Crossing European borders by train, within Schengen, I've found it's about 50:50 whether officials come through the train checking passports. (I have seen someone get into trouble crossing the Dutch/Belgian border for not having his passport on him or any other satisfactory proof of identity; the officials escorted him off the train at the next stop, and of course I don't know what happened after that.) However, considerably more than 50% of the time, I've been asked specifically for a passport or identity card on checking into a hotel.
Has she got any other photographic ID, such as a driving licence?
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:39 AM on October 4, 2011
Crossing European borders by train, within Schengen, I've found it's about 50:50 whether officials come through the train checking passports. (I have seen someone get into trouble crossing the Dutch/Belgian border for not having his passport on him or any other satisfactory proof of identity; the officials escorted him off the train at the next stop, and of course I don't know what happened after that.) However, considerably more than 50% of the time, I've been asked specifically for a passport or identity card on checking into a hotel.
Has she got any other photographic ID, such as a driving licence?
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:39 AM on October 4, 2011
@three blind mice: Yes, in theory. But how would she prove that she has a valid Schengen visa without her passport? Nthing the sceptics.
posted by themel at 8:09 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by themel at 8:09 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
No passport is needed - or required - to travel from Germany to France (and back again.)
This just isn't true. While it's rarely necessary to show your passport when travelling by car (even though it's technically a requirement for non-EU people), if you are travelling by bus you can bet you'll be stopped for a long time at the French border. If you're on the train your papers may well be checked, though they may well not be. If you don't have a passport (and can't show an EU identity card), well, I don't think I'd want to be you. Particularly if I wasn't Caucasian.
Like syzgy, I've always found the immigration officials on the Continent to be pretty relaxed. But I'm Caucasian and always carry my passport. I strongly, strongly advise your friend not to travel without a passport. The risk is just not worth it.
posted by rubbish bin night at 8:26 AM on October 4, 2011
This just isn't true. While it's rarely necessary to show your passport when travelling by car (even though it's technically a requirement for non-EU people), if you are travelling by bus you can bet you'll be stopped for a long time at the French border. If you're on the train your papers may well be checked, though they may well not be. If you don't have a passport (and can't show an EU identity card), well, I don't think I'd want to be you. Particularly if I wasn't Caucasian.
Like syzgy, I've always found the immigration officials on the Continent to be pretty relaxed. But I'm Caucasian and always carry my passport. I strongly, strongly advise your friend not to travel without a passport. The risk is just not worth it.
posted by rubbish bin night at 8:26 AM on October 4, 2011
My passport was checked on a train in France twice. Call the embassy.
posted by knapah at 8:32 AM on October 4, 2011
posted by knapah at 8:32 AM on October 4, 2011
I don't know what the rules are about what you need to travel with. That said, the police here (France) do certainly pick-and-choose who they are asking documents for based on demographics. Though I am a white female, I see a lot of not-white people - especially guys - asked for their documents and especially in the train stations and especially in the stations that might be your friend's destination. South Asians are among the groups they frequently stop for ID.
If your friend should technically have the documents, she should make sure to have them. If they are technically needed and she does not have them, she should delay the trip to France.
posted by whatzit at 8:57 AM on October 4, 2011
If your friend should technically have the documents, she should make sure to have them. If they are technically needed and she does not have them, she should delay the trip to France.
posted by whatzit at 8:57 AM on October 4, 2011
It may be worth noting that the French have been very twitchy recently about Schengen, after a large number of Tunisian refugees ended up in France having entered the EU in Italy. I would agree with others who suggest that, unfortunately, your friend may be more likely to be targeted than a white traveller.
posted by Infinite Jest at 9:00 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Infinite Jest at 9:00 AM on October 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Travelling in the Schengen zone by ground transport he's unlikely to be asked to show his passport. But YMMV, especially if you are not white.
posted by londongeezer at 10:59 AM on October 4, 2011
posted by londongeezer at 10:59 AM on October 4, 2011
Response by poster: Well, she got away with it. Lucky lucky. As everyone points out here, however, taking this risk is not recommended.
posted by rahulrg at 8:18 PM on November 10, 2011
posted by rahulrg at 8:18 PM on November 10, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by knile at 6:41 AM on October 4, 2011