SOS: sync our surroundings on small network
September 28, 2011 3:26 PM Subscribe
Basic networking/backup over a network we have no control over? Looking for a sync solution for small business, please suggest and help inside!
My partner and I are renting office space in a shared office area. The network is very fast and offers both wireless and ethernet. We're currently both using wireless and are looking for the best way to "sync" our workflow. We have *zero* control over the network itself, so that's a consideration for backup solutions I've read on the internet.
what we've come up so far is, get a external harddrive, and network the external harddrive and sync between that and the two computers, and then cloud/remote backup the external harddrive every day. BTW, one computer is win7, one is mac. Is this the best and easiest (and most secure!) way to achieve this setup? can you suggest a better one than i've described?
Any very beginner tutorials or pointers would be helpful here. Thanks in advance.
My partner and I are renting office space in a shared office area. The network is very fast and offers both wireless and ethernet. We're currently both using wireless and are looking for the best way to "sync" our workflow. We have *zero* control over the network itself, so that's a consideration for backup solutions I've read on the internet.
what we've come up so far is, get a external harddrive, and network the external harddrive and sync between that and the two computers, and then cloud/remote backup the external harddrive every day. BTW, one computer is win7, one is mac. Is this the best and easiest (and most secure!) way to achieve this setup? can you suggest a better one than i've described?
Any very beginner tutorials or pointers would be helpful here. Thanks in advance.
Response by poster: DarlignBri - I've heard bad things about Dropbox's security (vs spideroak), but the real question, how would we have the three "devices" - Computer a (Win7), computer b (Mac), and external hardive - be in sync at all times? Aside from using a full blown versioning system, that is...
posted by yonation at 3:36 PM on September 28, 2011
posted by yonation at 3:36 PM on September 28, 2011
A simple commodity NAS might be a good solution, such as the D-Link DNS-325. Add hard drive, plug into network, go.
posted by lantius at 3:41 PM on September 28, 2011
posted by lantius at 3:41 PM on September 28, 2011
Response by poster: lantius: I can't physically plug into network (or do you mean plug into the ethernet?) because this network is shared across 20, 30 other people. Will this pose a problem?
posted by yonation at 3:43 PM on September 28, 2011
posted by yonation at 3:43 PM on September 28, 2011
Dropbox or one of its competitors is the best combination of secure and useful for most startups in your situation. It seems like doing things yourself would be safer, but in practice it takes too much time or good security practices aren't followed consistently.
posted by michaelh at 3:49 PM on September 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by michaelh at 3:49 PM on September 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best would be to run your own private subnet behind a wired connection into the office network. One ethernet connection, which you say is available, can be hooked up to any firewall/NAT switch (sonicwall, say). Then you can do whatever you like amongst yourselves: your own wifi AP, peer-to-peer networking, a fileserver, etc. all without access to the greater office and still preserving your Internet access.
posted by rhizome at 3:59 PM on September 28, 2011
posted by rhizome at 3:59 PM on September 28, 2011
Response by poster: So whether with a NAT switch, or a NAS, I could still remain private among the greater office? Are there any tutorials about these things - I'm very competent with computers but simply never done any kind of networking.
Regarding Dropbox: it's appealing but I have heard a lot of bad stuff on /. about their security, ec. I use SpiderOak right now at home, which I love, but it seems to work better as a backup solution rather than a network/sync solution?
posted by yonation at 4:08 PM on September 28, 2011
Regarding Dropbox: it's appealing but I have heard a lot of bad stuff on /. about their security, ec. I use SpiderOak right now at home, which I love, but it seems to work better as a backup solution rather than a network/sync solution?
posted by yonation at 4:08 PM on September 28, 2011
Dropbox had a recent serious security problem (right after I signed up, of course). Reviews for online storage providers:
techradar.com
pcmag.com
pcworld.com
Are there enough jacks for the wired network? Wired is less insecure; use it if you can. In your current scenario, assume that everything you do online is viewable by others in the office and anything transmitted over wireless is also visible to people in adjacent spaces - upstairs, downstairs, next door, outside. Who's your email provider? Make sure you have secure access to email. Gmail uses https by default.
A NAS is a Network-attached storage device. A computer, with minimal capabilities, other than a big hard drive, network capacity, and some security options. It's as secure as you configure it to be. Take passwords seriously, and also take physical storage seriously. If an office-mate swipes the NAS box, you will be sad. Same with your laptops, etc. You can use a VPN to secure your traffic.
Sync-ing documents is non-trivial. Consider using google docs for shared work if you need to collaborate 'live'. If you just need access to shared drivespace, a NAS and some secure online storage is reasonable.
posted by theora55 at 4:28 PM on September 28, 2011
techradar.com
pcmag.com
pcworld.com
Are there enough jacks for the wired network? Wired is less insecure; use it if you can. In your current scenario, assume that everything you do online is viewable by others in the office and anything transmitted over wireless is also visible to people in adjacent spaces - upstairs, downstairs, next door, outside. Who's your email provider? Make sure you have secure access to email. Gmail uses https by default.
A NAS is a Network-attached storage device. A computer, with minimal capabilities, other than a big hard drive, network capacity, and some security options. It's as secure as you configure it to be. Take passwords seriously, and also take physical storage seriously. If an office-mate swipes the NAS box, you will be sad. Same with your laptops, etc. You can use a VPN to secure your traffic.
Sync-ing documents is non-trivial. Consider using google docs for shared work if you need to collaborate 'live'. If you just need access to shared drivespace, a NAS and some secure online storage is reasonable.
posted by theora55 at 4:28 PM on September 28, 2011
You have two separate problems:
1. you want all machines to have synced versions of the same file. This isn't a backup problem, this is a file server problem. Buy a low-cost NAS box (ReadyNAS Duo, etc.) and stick it on the network. If you're really concerned about people seeing your traffic, put a firewall+router between your machines and the rest of the network.
2. backup. DropBox is pretty neat until you read up and discover the gaping security holes. If security matters, go with someone like Backblaze who can prove that your data leaves your computer already-encrypted and only you have the key.
posted by introp at 9:30 PM on September 28, 2011
1. you want all machines to have synced versions of the same file. This isn't a backup problem, this is a file server problem. Buy a low-cost NAS box (ReadyNAS Duo, etc.) and stick it on the network. If you're really concerned about people seeing your traffic, put a firewall+router between your machines and the rest of the network.
2. backup. DropBox is pretty neat until you read up and discover the gaping security holes. If security matters, go with someone like Backblaze who can prove that your data leaves your computer already-encrypted and only you have the key.
posted by introp at 9:30 PM on September 28, 2011
Response by poster: theora, introp: can i use a NAS on a network where i have zero control, where i just log in wirelessly or over ethernet? do i just password protect it?
posted by yonation at 6:52 AM on September 29, 2011
posted by yonation at 6:52 AM on September 29, 2011
Yes, you just plug it in, log in as admin, immediately change the admin password, and start adding authorized usernames (and passwords for each, of course). Windows use SMB/CIFS for their file sharing; Macs can use SMB/CIFS and/or AFP. I think the ReadyNAS boxes support both. I mention this because neither is what you'd call the world's highest-security protocols, but they will prevent a normal person from being able to snoop your traffic / impersonate you. All these NAS boxes will have an option to make certain shares public, put the files on a web page or media server, etc. Just go an uncheck all those options for your shares so they remain private.
posted by introp at 1:41 PM on September 29, 2011
posted by introp at 1:41 PM on September 29, 2011
Response by poster: sounds great introp! One last question: you think the ReadyNAS is a good choice? Since you recommended it, I did some googling and while the reviews are mostly good, there are some bad ones out there and I'm wondering if I'm missing the "killer" (entry-level) NAS. Thanks!
posted by yonation at 1:54 PM on September 29, 2011
posted by yonation at 1:54 PM on September 29, 2011
Best answer: All the inexpensive NAS boxes have their strengths and shortcomings. I talked to lots of friends that have various kinds and settled on the ReadyNAS Duo for the high usability-to-price ratio.
Strengths:
* very inexpensive. I bought a bare (no-drives) Duo and three 1.5 TB hard drives (one goes in an external USB2 enclosure for backups of the Duo itself) for just over $500, and this was many moons ago. Warning: don't buy consumer-level Western Digital drives for any RAID'ed NAS box. I ended up with Seagate drives after returning the defective WDs. You can buy the ReadyNAS boxes with pre-installed drives and it's usually a decent enough deal.
* pretty easy to set up. I ran the program on the CD to find the thing, logged in via a browser, and within about 10 minutes had three network shares (streamable media, public to all logged in users, and private home folders) working for all the WinXP and Win7 boxes here.
* automated backup to the external USB drive I have is completely fire-and-forget. It just takes care of it on schedule and only emails me if things go wrong.
* surprisingly quiet; the fan runs a lot, but with it in the utility closet here I can't hear it (once I put a mouse pad under it).
Shortcomings:
* the big one first: The Duo and the NV+ are old designs. This is one of the reasons they're inexpensive. They use a slightly odd Sparc CPU and the ReadyNAS guys have moved on to Intel CPUs. The Duo doesn't get fancy new features that the fancy new firmware has. If I had to do it over again, I'd spend the little bit of extra money for a newer design like the ReadyNAS Ultra 2. (Disclaimer: I don't know anyone who owns an Ultra 2 yet.)
* this particular model is limited to 2 TB drives; probably not an issue for many people.
* setting up the backup took a couple tries. It didn't take much time, but it did fail the first couple until I realized my error.
* you probably want it plugged into a UPS (battery backup). If you just yank power from it, booting the thing up the next time takes maybe 15 minutes or more when the drives are full. Buy a cheap $50 APC or Trip-Lite UPS. Spend the extra $5 and get one that has a little serial cable (usually advertised as "automatic shutdown of your PC", etc.) so the ReadyNAS can talk to it and realize when battery power is about to run out. It'll shut itself down gracefully before the UPS battery dies and everyone will be happier.
* getting my Linux computers working over NFS was a royal pain in the tail. NFS3 works great out of the box but NFS3 sucks. I've never managed to get NFS4 working perfectly on the Duo. It works but ... it's a hassle. If you don't have Linux machines or just want to mount the shares as CIFS (Windows-type shared folders), you'll be fine.
* The ReadyNAS cloud backup solution is kind of expensive when compared to others. I back up via BackBlaze, but that requires some computer wizard sleight-of-hand because BackBlaze won't let you backup network mount drives (for economic reasons). On the other hand, the ReadyNAS cloud backup probably just works out of the box, and there's a lot to be said for that.
I'm a total computer nerd, so my objective "easy enough my parents could do it!" might be a little clouded, but I really have recommended this exact box (well, the Ultra 2) to my parents, as their current NAS box (one of the first-gen Linksys cheapies) is losing its USB.
posted by introp at 5:00 PM on September 29, 2011
Strengths:
* very inexpensive. I bought a bare (no-drives) Duo and three 1.5 TB hard drives (one goes in an external USB2 enclosure for backups of the Duo itself) for just over $500, and this was many moons ago. Warning: don't buy consumer-level Western Digital drives for any RAID'ed NAS box. I ended up with Seagate drives after returning the defective WDs. You can buy the ReadyNAS boxes with pre-installed drives and it's usually a decent enough deal.
* pretty easy to set up. I ran the program on the CD to find the thing, logged in via a browser, and within about 10 minutes had three network shares (streamable media, public to all logged in users, and private home folders) working for all the WinXP and Win7 boxes here.
* automated backup to the external USB drive I have is completely fire-and-forget. It just takes care of it on schedule and only emails me if things go wrong.
* surprisingly quiet; the fan runs a lot, but with it in the utility closet here I can't hear it (once I put a mouse pad under it).
Shortcomings:
* the big one first: The Duo and the NV+ are old designs. This is one of the reasons they're inexpensive. They use a slightly odd Sparc CPU and the ReadyNAS guys have moved on to Intel CPUs. The Duo doesn't get fancy new features that the fancy new firmware has. If I had to do it over again, I'd spend the little bit of extra money for a newer design like the ReadyNAS Ultra 2. (Disclaimer: I don't know anyone who owns an Ultra 2 yet.)
* this particular model is limited to 2 TB drives; probably not an issue for many people.
* setting up the backup took a couple tries. It didn't take much time, but it did fail the first couple until I realized my error.
* you probably want it plugged into a UPS (battery backup). If you just yank power from it, booting the thing up the next time takes maybe 15 minutes or more when the drives are full. Buy a cheap $50 APC or Trip-Lite UPS. Spend the extra $5 and get one that has a little serial cable (usually advertised as "automatic shutdown of your PC", etc.) so the ReadyNAS can talk to it and realize when battery power is about to run out. It'll shut itself down gracefully before the UPS battery dies and everyone will be happier.
* getting my Linux computers working over NFS was a royal pain in the tail. NFS3 works great out of the box but NFS3 sucks. I've never managed to get NFS4 working perfectly on the Duo. It works but ... it's a hassle. If you don't have Linux machines or just want to mount the shares as CIFS (Windows-type shared folders), you'll be fine.
* The ReadyNAS cloud backup solution is kind of expensive when compared to others. I back up via BackBlaze, but that requires some computer wizard sleight-of-hand because BackBlaze won't let you backup network mount drives (for economic reasons). On the other hand, the ReadyNAS cloud backup probably just works out of the box, and there's a lot to be said for that.
I'm a total computer nerd, so my objective "easy enough my parents could do it!" might be a little clouded, but I really have recommended this exact box (well, the Ultra 2) to my parents, as their current NAS box (one of the first-gen Linksys cheapies) is losing its USB.
posted by introp at 5:00 PM on September 29, 2011
Response by poster: Thats great introp, thanks so much for your detailed help! I actually like the "easy enough my parents can do it" philosophy - I think it should apply to nerds and parents alike. Really appreciate it.
posted by yonation at 7:39 PM on September 29, 2011
posted by yonation at 7:39 PM on September 29, 2011
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posted by DarlingBri at 3:34 PM on September 28, 2011