Binge Drinking or Alcoholic?

September 25, 2011 6:46 AM

Binge Drinking or Alcoholic?

I've been dating a wonderful person for 4 months.
We've had reasonable amounts of alcohol together and he hasn't been drunk often- just once on his birthday (that I've seen) and he was fine (not a "bad" drunk). He told me he went out of town this weekend for a friend's birthday and he had 14 drinks. FOURTEEN! This is beyond binge drinking and shows really poor judgement to me. I thought he was mature and responsible but now I really question that. I don't know anyone in my life who's had that much in a night. It sounds like a big problem to me because if he makes a bad choice with how much to drink, who knows what else? That amount of alcohol could really harm someone.
Also at dinner the other night he had 1 beer but drank it fast (he doesn't pace himself well...) and started acting stupid and annoying and it was upsetting to me.
What should I do?

posted by dt2010 to Human Relations (32 answers total)

British perspective: binge drinking, not alcoholic at all.

Really, you sound kinda judgmental about this, in the sense that you are directly linking heavy drinking with a severe character flaw after one event that you weren't even present for and directly linking one beer with annoying you.

If you don't like your SO drinking, then you need to tell them.
posted by MuffinMan at 6:53 AM on September 25, 2011 [13 favorites]

umm wat? so he got drunk twice in 4 months (2.5 if you count the beer) and you're jumping to "alcoholic"? Sometimes you just drink a lot at an occasion like a birthday or a wedding (I recently split a bottle of cognac w/ my brother at my wife's birthday and I'm certainly not an alcholic). But what makes you an alcoholic is being addicted to alcohol. If you're drinking regularly to the point of it affecting your life or your health, then you have a problem.

That being said, you need to talk to him and discuss what sort of relationship he has w/ alcohol. He maybe like me an occasional beer and gets drunk on occasion like myself, or maybe he's a recovering alcoholic and that's the reason he doesn't usually drink. So have a calm discussion and go from there.
posted by pyro979 at 6:55 AM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

If he is able to have 14 drinks, he probably hasn't killed his liver off, yet. Ironically when an alcoholic's health really starts to fail it takes increasingly less alcohol ingestion to make them "drunk". I was married to a really wonderful person who drank considerable amounts of alcohol, for over a decade as we got closer to the 12-15 year mark his moods began to change and he was no longer "a fun drunk". Eventually it became an unbearable situation that I had to remove myself from, you may decide to walk away from this situation and spare yourself considerable heartache later, or possibly you are being judgmental and you will be walking away from a really wonderful person. In life you never really KNOW, so my suggestion is communicate and listen to your instinct on the matter.
posted by Jayed at 6:58 AM on September 25, 2011

Having 14 drinks in one night is an automatic sign of immaturity? For serious?

I know several alcoholics. I know I am not one. But I do, once every few months, go out for a big not and really get drunk. I can drink 14 drinks no problem.

Unless he is 125 pounds, 14 drinks does not equal immature alcoholic.
posted by Flood at 6:59 AM on September 25, 2011 [5 favorites]

how old is he?
14 beers? Wines? Spirits?

14 beers to me in my younger binge drinking days was pretty normal.
posted by the noob at 7:05 AM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm another Brit so take this with a pinch of salt, but 1 binge on a special occasion out of 4 months is not even worth mentioning IMO but you seem to be questioning your entire opinion of him based on this single event.
Over what period of time were these 14 drinks consumed? I don't drink regularly (a few times a year) but assuming 30ml measures of spirits I could easily drink that much over the course of a long evening and be barely tipsy. Over 3 hours, that's a lot and he probably would have been very drunk, but over 6 or 7 hours he may have only been buzzed/merry.

Is it possible this issue is not the real problem? I know some consider it bad form to bring up past questions but this is your 3rd question about him/this relationship in 4 months. Maybe you still have doubts about how you feel about him and you're looking for something to blame it on if he is, as you say in every question, 'a wonderful person'.
posted by missmagenta at 7:06 AM on September 25, 2011 [7 favorites]

Well, most people grossly over estimate how many drinks they had after binge drinking. Is he saying he had 14 drinks the whole weekend? That sounds like a good birthday weekend. Otherwise, it was probably more like 6-8 that night. 14 is possible just not likely for someone not in practice.

Did he miss work, screw up his job, crash his car, say mean things to you or hit you, anything like that? 'Cause it doesn't sound to me like getting smashed twice in 4 months is that much.

If it makes you feel better, go out and have a couple of beers with him a few more times to see: can he stop at a couple? and is he someone you don't like when he's buzzed? This is what dating is for, getting to know each other better. Now that the 'best behavior' phase is wearing off, maybe it turns out you don't like him when he's drunk. Which is a different AskMe question.
posted by ctmf at 7:07 AM on September 25, 2011

This is so dependent on the person. One person's infrequent binge is another person's start to a life of alcoholism.
posted by dfriedman at 7:08 AM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

Over how many hours was this? 14 drinks between noon and midnite is just over one per hour.
posted by goethean at 7:09 AM on September 25, 2011 [3 favorites]

If his friend's birthday festivities went on all night, that's really not a surprising amount. Especially if he was eating, too. I was at a several-hours long event and associated afterparty a few days ago, about 6-7 hours total, and even though I'm a 100-lb woman and drank maybe 8 glasses of wine, I barely even broke "buzzed."
posted by oinopaponton at 7:11 AM on September 25, 2011

This is not problematic at all. Alcoholism has to with addiction, i.e. drinking every day.

14 drinks is too much but you know, one can go overboard sometimes. I know people who do this every week who lead perfectly regular lives.

I'm not defending drinking too much, but this is not "problem" situation, everyone who drinks alcohol has situations where they drank too much every once in a while.
posted by wolfr at 7:20 AM on September 25, 2011

Last year I went clubbing with some friends and had about that much over 4-5 hours. I'm a girl, and was quite drunk, but I didn't do anything stupid that night. Note that he was also drinking in the safe company of friends. Normally I won't have more that 2, maybe 3 drinks, and can go weeks without a drink. What you described sounds perfectly fine.
posted by DoubleLune at 7:22 AM on September 25, 2011

This is beyond binge drinking. . .

It depends on where you're standing. If you're the type of person who has one or two glasse of wine in a night out I can see how this would seem insane. To me it doesn't. In my early twenties that would have been a heavy Friday night, but by no means unusual. But I'm Irish, and we have an, umm, unusual relationship with the hooch.

I think, though, there is not enough information in your question to get a good answer. Fourteen drinks of what? Over what period of time? If I drank fourteen single whiskeys over the course of a wedding, say, I wouldn't even feel drunk. If I drank fourteen pints of beer after work on a Friday, I wouldn't remember getting home.

I would suggest you move away from the numbers and focus instead on how you feel about it and what you think is acceptable. If he's getting drunk and acting in a way that upsets you, you should absolutely talk about it. But starting from a position of 'You drank X drinks in Y time and that is not OK for me' is a bad approach.
posted by StephenF at 7:23 AM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't know anyone in my life who's had that much in a night.

You could always befriend members of a rugby club.

But I'll agree with what missmagenta and others said: what's at stake here isn't whether you're overreacting, but the fact that you have a reaction to this. Which isn't to shift the blame to you, but to say that it needs to be straightened up between the two of you. You can't totally control the future of a relationship, but you can clear a path where you're better able to see the general area it's heading.
posted by holgate at 7:27 AM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

Looking at your past questions, I think the main issue here is that your radar is up. You've been through some intense experiences in a short amount of time -- the breakup of a 6.5-year relationship, another one close after with a guy with a lot of problems, and issues with your mom. Of course you're worried that with this new guy, something bad's going to happen and he won't be who you thought he was. You've been hurt and disappointed. You're also in therapy, right? Your issues may be close to the surface right now. You've mentioned having anxiety and depression, too. You're seeming oversensitive to possible red flags with the new guy. It's your psyche's way of protecting yourself, a defense mechanism, and normal.

Just like everyone else said, I don't think your guy is an alcoholic based on the information you've given us. But I think the root issue is that you may be overly guarded right now, and looking for red flags that aren't there. If you can find a way to relax and take more of an observer role with this guy, it would probably help a lot. You've only been seeing each other four months, after all. You're still getting to know each other.
posted by xenophile at 7:28 AM on September 25, 2011

If you want permission to end it: permission is granted. I have no basis for saying it, but it sounds like you are torturing a set of datapoints to look for that answer. When that's the case: end it.

But, if you want to know if he's an alcoholic, well - its highly unlikely two discrete events will provide enough context for anyone on Mefi to determine. The alcoholics I've known have ranged in their caliber.
1. Some smelled of it. Constantly. Every day. You could stand 15 feet away from them and know that they were there. It wasn't the alcohol smell as much as the my body processed the alcohol smell.
2. Some had drinks every night and really just defaulted to the behavior - and when given the opportunity to attend an event where there wasn't drinking - they were uncomfortable. Really uncomfortable. They would want to leave upon arrival, and/or be distraced the entire time they were there. Upon leaving, if it was early enough, they would want to have an after-party - undoubtedly at a bar.
3. Some were jovial, some were mean, most were two people - the sober one, and the drunk. The sober one was always less of themself than what they were before they found alcohol - you could see the tragedy in their eyes. It was like looking at photos of someone you were really good friends with who you only have blury pictures of. Then they would drink. There would be this brief moment of clarity and then a caracture of the person would emerge. Sometimes you would see the worst of someone, the most annoying, or the meanest of someone. Other times you would just see someone emerge again, but exaggerated. And the exaggerated them could be fun - but it was always at risk of also breaking way to the worst or anoying or meanest version of them. As others would say - this would appear not at 14 drinks, but at 3. At 14 there was nothing but damage control.
4. Someone you never suspect. They don't act like the alcoholic from an ABC afterschool special. They don't act out. They don't do anything that gets them in trouble or caught. And that's how they manage to become and sustain their alcohlism. The time you find out is when it all breaks down and they become the afterschool special - but until then - they drink every night. By themselves. At home.

5. Lastly, a what-would-have-been close relative of mine died of a brain hemmorage after tripping down a flight of stairs (long before I was born) - alcohol related - and the back room conversations always mentioned that that person drank heavily, despite the outward appearance of a stepford wife.

So yeah. I've seen alcoholics. Most people have. but the two signs you've put forward really don't mark someone as an alcoholic. They may mark someone as someone you don't want to be around, because they party more than you like, and in that case - end it - you have the permission of ask.metafilter.com. But do 14 drinks and two nigths in 4 months definitively make somene an alcoholic? No - not even close.
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:32 AM on September 25, 2011 [10 favorites]

Alcohol may or may not contribute to annoying. What was he doing that you found annoying?
posted by medea42 at 7:44 AM on September 25, 2011

I'm an American. I'm the child of an alcoholic, so I'm conscious of my drinking. I have had 14 drinks in one night. If "one night" is defined as "starting at happy hour and ending the next morning," which wouldn't be an unusual definition for a special occasion like a big birthday, I've had 14 drinks in one night several times a year for my entire adult life. I am not an alcoholic. I do not have a drinking problem.

I think that the problem here is not his relationship with alcohol or his maturity or his judgment. I think the problem here is that, very understandably in light of your past experiences, you're looking for reasons to dump this guy. You're looking for signs that something is wrong with him and that he's going to hurt you and that this is going to end terribly. And like I said, that's understandable. But that's not his fault.

You need to discuss this with your therapist. It's possible that, given all you've been through, you're not ready to date right now. It's also possible that you shouldn't be dating this guy, because his lifestyle isn't compatible with yours. It's also possible that you just don't like this guy's personality. It's also possible that he's a wonderful person who will make a great partner for you if you can relax and enjoy it. None of us know you or him, so we can't tell you what's really going on here. Talk to your therapist and to people who know you, and figure out what you really want.
posted by decathecting at 7:45 AM on September 25, 2011 [2 favorites]

Break up with him.

I agree with others that it can be hard to count when you're drinking a lot; it's possible he only had, say, 8 drinks, not 14. We also don't know anything about timing, and this easily could have been as little as 1 per hour.

That plus the fact that he once drank a beer faster than you would have liked doesn't make him an alcoholic. It also doesn't make him not an alcoholic, but we don't have the kind of information to allow anonymous internet strangers to prove that kind of negative.

But anyway, you asked what you should do. And taking your question at face value, well, this really bothers you. You're clearly judging him -- judging his character and decision-making ability, not just his drinking habits -- and you're monitoring closely for slip-ups to pounce on. It seems like you're asking for permission to break up with him, in which case, you have mine and you should go ahead and do it. You at least have different drinking standards and habits than him and you're not comfortable with that.

The other option I can think of is that you're on edge and so anxious about this because you have other stuff going on. In that case, this (drinking norms) wouldn't have to be a deal-breaker, but it still might be cause to break up because you might need time by yourself to get your stuff together.
posted by J. Wilson at 7:46 AM on September 25, 2011 [6 favorites]

As many have said, it depends over what time period he had these drinks. And a couple of times in 4 months doesn't seem that bad.

The theory is that one "standard unit" drink adds 0.01% alcohol content to your blood, and your (healthy) liver can expel that in 1 hour. So if you have one drink an hour, you're probably going to hover around 0.01 - 0.02% BAC, which is (for many people) close enough to sober.

So having 14 drinks in 2 hours? - That's pretty bad. Having 14 drinks over 12 hours? Not a big deal, as long as it's not done frequently.
posted by Diag at 7:50 AM on September 25, 2011

1 beer too fast? Some real light weights might get decently buzzed for an hour on that, but most men would barely feel it. His annoying behavior probably had nothing to do with the beer.

Nonetheless you shouldn't date anyone other than a very light drinker as you're clearly very uncomfortable with drinking.
posted by whoaali at 8:10 AM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

To be honest, you seem to be jumping to conclusions and overgeneralizing.
posted by callmejay at 8:14 AM on September 25, 2011 [4 favorites]

British response: One night out in a four month period at which drinks were consumed and much merriment was made is no case whatsoever for calling someone an alcoholic. If we were to make assessments of people based on one instance then that bout of the flu I had back at the beginning of the year would be sufficient grounds for calling me a weak and sickly person. Truth is I have taken three days off work through illness in the past six years.

The volume of responses to this question say the same thing: You're looking for something that isn't there, and the danger is that you'll see it regardless of what the evidence actually says. This suggests to me that the drinking is not your real issue, though it would make a fine excuse to get rid of someone you were already thinkinig of leaving.
posted by dougrayrankin at 8:17 AM on September 25, 2011

Its a yellow flag, a caution, no need to make dramatic decisions. You have not said anything about his age or the quality of his life in other areas--work, school, enduring friendships, general impulsiveness/stability, etc. However, I would not glibly dismiss this as some posters suggest. Discuss it with him, tell him it worries you but don't give him rules/guidelines/expectations. Watch and learn, as he is doing with you. If he immediately gets defensive--particularly along the line of "get off my back, I'll do what i want, or completely minimizes/dismisses your concern" I would take that as a an additional yellow flag. In spite of some of the feedback here--because something is normal or expected does not in anyway mean it is not problematic. Good luck
posted by rmhsinc at 8:22 AM on September 25, 2011

Keep an eye on him to see if this is a regular habit for him. If he drinks that heavily on a regular basis/multiple nights a week, he might have a problem (perhaps not now, but eventually--people change, but they don't change that much!).

Only you know whether you have a problem with that sort of behavior. It's okay to not be okay with that. I prefer to date non-drinkers or light drinkers because I'm especially sensitive to addiction prone behavior from past experiences with people in my life. Trust your gut on this one.
posted by sunnychef88 at 8:27 AM on September 25, 2011 [2 favorites]

Follow your instincts. You aren't comfortable with his behavior. It doesn't really matter whether or not he is an alcoholic. There are people who never drink who are recovering alcoholics. There are people who drink only occasionally but binge when they do drink who are alcoholics. There are people who do the same exact thing who are not alcoholics. It's not something that can be determined just by reading this post. If he is uninterested in changing his behavior--and that behavior disturbs you this much--that's all you really need to know.
posted by marimeko at 9:18 AM on September 25, 2011 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: He texted me this morning, he said he is doing great....and regarding the amount of alcohol, that he was fine but some other people there didn't handle it well. He seemed okay this morning, didn't even say anything about a hangover. I don't know yet what kind of alcohol or over how many hours exactly (but yes it was a long night event so wasn't just 2-3 hours). But I can tell you all other parts of his life seem in line...good job, doesn't miss work, close with family, finished gradf school, cheerful and friendly personality, close friends, a good boyfriend to me...and doesn't seem impulsive but seems rather stable which is what I was looking for in a boyfriend this time around...and maybe why this (what seemed to me) excessive night irked me, because it kind of reminded me of someone who would be impulsive. But again, I have been out with him for dinner and drinks, and he's always very reasonable about it and can stop, which I also liked about him.
The thing is, a lot of you are right, to an extent. I have been through a lot that does make me have my radar up. But, part of that has always been there, as I've always had anxiety. And whoever said I was jumping to conclusions and overgeneralizing...yeah, that's always been part of it, too. I am getting treatment for anxiety which I am very happy about.
The other part is that yes I was very hesitant to continue seeing him in the beginning, going back and forth a lot...I had been on several other dates that immediately I knew I didn't care to see the person again. But then when I met him, there was something about him I really liked, we got on really well, and I wanted to keep seeing him because I felt good being with him, and it's grown from there. I thought I was actually doing pretty well, because I've moved very slowly with this relationship and I told him some things about my past experiences, and because this is the first thing in 4 months that I've worried about like this. If he drank like this all the time I wouldn't continue seeing him because yes it would be very incompatible with my lifestyle, but this seems an isolated event. The thing is, my anxiety spirals out of control and I start thinking "what ifs"...like how it would affect his health, or if he did this in the future, or if he got alcohol poisoning, etc.
I agree with the poster who said to bring it up with him, discuss it by saying it does worry me but don't make is dramatic, and I can see how he reacts to that...I don't agree with the poster who said to just break up, that's really not what I want to happen. Sometimes, and it may not be great, I need someone to tell me it's not that bad or a problem as I might see it, and maybe this is just one of those cases.
posted by dt2010 at 10:55 AM on September 25, 2011

I'd agree that from your description, the guy is someone who likes to drink but knows how to control it. Sounds healthy to me. And I'll also agree that for a guy who knows how to drink, 14 drinks in an evening is nothing spectacular; I used to have 10 beers on a Friday night before even heading out to the bar.

The real issue is whether his attitude towards drinking is compatible with yours. Would you be ok with a relationship where every few months your partner went out with their friends and got hammered? I'd be comfortable with that, because I also like to drink. But if you're coming from a place where a night out drinking means one or two drinks, you might not be ok with it.

To sum up: Your partner doesn't sound like he has a drinking problem, but you're allowed to decide what level of drinking is ok in your relationship.
posted by auto-correct at 11:47 AM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

Well, as the child of an alcoholic, and as someone who doesn't bother to drink, I can't say I'd really like to be with someone who includes binge drinking among their recreational activities, even if it wasn't that frequent.

I realize that that admission would be considered absolutely contemptible and reprehensible by, probably, most of the UK population. How dare I judge, stick up ass, etc.

But the thing is, I have my likes and dislikes, and they are what they are.

I don't know if I'd break up with somebody over this, but it would make me feel apprehensive in the same way you do. I would probably accept it as just a blip in the overall pattern of an otherwise good relationship, but I would personally count it as one of my very unhappy days. Ordering you to "lighten up" might be technically correct, but I'm not sure how much it helps.

Now, I don't know anything, and obviously your recent bad experiences have primed you to look for the risk in everything. But the last time I was in a situation where I had irrational fears, in the back of my mind, that white could turn to black at a moment's notice, I knew it was just my neurosis and negativity talking. Over time, I gradually became more comfortable, from seeing the evidence of the situation I was really in, hearing the feedback of everybody around me, and having a little faith in people. Until one day, black turned to white and the outcome was worse than I could possibly imagine.

In the subsequent situation, except for a couple of triggering episodes which turned out OK, I did't have those fears that I knew full well were neurotic lurking in the back of my mind. Because there was nothing to be afraid of.

So, maybe it's not the drinking in and of itself, but that the drinking is one way of organizing your thoughts about something you don't like about this situation.
posted by tel3path at 1:35 PM on September 25, 2011

A good definition for an alcoholic is the following: the person can not predict what will happen after having one drink. They might just have one, they might have 20. The difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic is that a heavy drinker has a choice. That kind of drinker can say "I'm only going to have 3 tonight" or "I'm going to have 20" and stick to their target. An alcoholic cannot. An alcoholic could stop having booze for months, could go cold turkey, etc. They might have good control over it. But if they can't predict how much they will drink after the first drink, they have a disease and should get managed care for it if they can.

Binge drinking can be a problem and, for some people, alcoholism develops overtime - so, really, it is hard to tell from your question what this guy is. Alcoholism can really only be diagnosed by a professional and not from the internet. However, if you find the amount of his drinking excessive or worriesome or if you just can't take it, talk to the fellow about it. See if you can work it out.
posted by Stynxno at 7:30 PM on September 25, 2011 [1 favorite]

Some people asked over how long of a period these drinks were consumed. I would ask where these drinks were consumed. If he was drinking spirits at a bar -- most of which pour 1 oz. shots -- 14 drinks is the equivalent of about 9 bottles of beer. This isn't a lot.

Well, it might be a lot, but I'd also ask how much the lad weighs. Most of the tall and/or wide people I know can put back 14 drinks in a night and not even lose their balance once. I've known a few who can put back a fifth of spirits (26 oz.) in a single night. And I was once roommates with a guy who drank a whole 40 oz. of spirits -- not beer -- over the course of one long night. Granted, this was in his undergrad days. But still. He turned out just fine.

I don't know anyone in my life who's had that much in a night.

If you haven't actually known anyone who's had that much in a night, either:

(a) you haven't met that many people,
(b) you have met a lot of people, but they all come from a fairly dry subset of the population, or
(c) you just haven't had occasion to keep tabs on exactly how much alcohol each person you know has ever had in a single night.

My money is on (c).
posted by matlock expressway at 7:32 PM on September 25, 2011

Relax. Maybe one day he'll be the Foreign Secretary.
posted by Acheman at 9:09 AM on September 26, 2011 [1 favorite]