How to respond to a family vacation turned violent domestic incident?
September 14, 2011 10:16 AM   Subscribe

My family just spent a week with my wife's brother and his family. Six kids, four adults, one week in their house. It was for the most part uneventful. In fact, it was great. We're now from the big city, they're from the suburbs in the South. We ate BBQ, fished, shot guns, and drank beer, all things we aren't able to do where we normally live. Then, the last night, the brother got violent. Started picking a fight that we couldn't stop, accusing us of mocking him and his family and wife. There was NO way to diffuse it. I can't tell you how much we tried to be solicitous. He ended up hitting my wife on the arm and shoving me, we ran out of the house in the middle of the night grabbing clothes and kids and stayed in a hotel. It's been a few days and my wife and I are now at her mom's house 30 minutes away - she doesn't seem to know what happened. Do we tell her? Do we report the incident to the police? How do I set parameters around ever seeing each other again (such as to go see a counselor)? This doesn't seem to be a normal pattern for him, but something in his relationship with his sister really, really set him off. I don't want to be unforgiving - I just can't predict if that firestorm could appear again and honestly that night i feared for my life and the lives of my wife and kids - so how do we move on from here?

The backstory is that my wife is about as different as you can get from where she grew up. She was raised in the deep South, daughter of a preacher, in a family of 5 who had to believe at all costs they were the idea american family. Much of that is that when the preacher is a total narcissist, listening to churchloads of baptists each week telling you your family is the best sets the tone for what the individual members think of themselves. My wife moved away from that across the US and eventually the globe, and over years has realized she was in a horrible, confused, toxic mess of codependency and objectification. Our only thought was that this visit was after years of not seeing her brother except for skype, and in that interim she broke off a lot of the patterns and emotional chains that wrapped her up w/her brothers. I think that there was a certain amount of miscalculation on our part that spending a week with them would be OK, but distances involved mean staying for less would be absurd.

He says he's appalled by what happened but he's still blaming my wife for somehow causing the situation, which makes me feel like he's really not safe. Something set him off and we're still not sure what it was. I guess my biggest concern is that if he comes by his mom's house, only 30 minutes away for the next few weeks until we return home, I would be petrified and would feel like I would need to ask him to leave, which could trigger the whole thing again - the offense that his out-of-town brother in law would tell him he can't visit his mother's house would not go over well.

The irony was until this incident I really felt like our relationships both personally and as families were headed somewhere. Now I am questioning if I have a legitimate reason to stay away for the next 10-15 years.

Any advice on adult family dynamics turned violent would be helpful...
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (40 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Can you return home sooner?
posted by By The Grace of God at 10:23 AM on September 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


Go home and don't talk to him again. Tell him you don't feel comfortable around him and are cutting off contact until he gets his shit together. No one needs that, especially from family.
posted by TheBones at 10:24 AM on September 14, 2011 [7 favorites]


Did your kids witness what happened? If not, they've probably figured out that something big happened that caused you all to move quickly. Either way, I'd suggest talking to the kids to help them understand what happened...even if you have no idea yourself.

In the meantime, go home and keep away from him. I'd cut off all contact for the time being - no trying to mediate between him and your wife, nothing. Let things cool down.
posted by Elly Vortex at 10:26 AM on September 14, 2011


You really have NO idea what set him off? None whatsoever? Your wife doesn't even have a guess? Figuring that out might help you decide what is and isn't safe in regards to spending time with him and his family. Also, how did his family react to his outburst? Did his wife seem confused? resigned? horrified? enthusiastic?

As it stands now, I'm not sure what to advice, except to be conservative when it comes to the safety of your children, obviously. But for the future...I think we (and probably you) need to know more of the story.
posted by JuliaIglesias at 10:27 AM on September 14, 2011 [10 favorites]


Was there alcohol involved? At the very least I would make sure you are never around him when he's intoxicated in any way.

I would ask yourselves is this is behavior you would tolerate from anyone you weren't related to - because there isn't any reason you need to have separate standards for people you share blood with. He sounds dangerous and unpredictable and you don't have to see him if you don't want to.
posted by something something at 10:27 AM on September 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


advise. not advice. good grief.
posted by JuliaIglesias at 10:27 AM on September 14, 2011


Do not subject your kids to another minute of this risk.

Why are you still there????

Sort the rest out when you get home.

------


This is all kinds of dangerous and dysfunctional and super weird. I know you and your wife are in over your heads here (your wife is especially being overwhelmed by past patterns and programmed responses) because you are now staying with her mother and are covering up this traumatic event. Stop acting like what happened didn't happen! You are adults. Your wife is no longer a powerless and scared child. And anyway, exactly what message do you suppose you are sending your kids by keeping this traumatic event secret??

I've had to think about these EXACT issues because I come from a fucked up family and I now have a husband and son. I dealt with these issues by making choices that prevent the emotional and physical violence from my mom, brother, dad and my mom's extended family from ever touching our lives. Basically, I cut off all contact.

Short Answer: RUN. Sort out the rest from a safe distance.
posted by jbenben at 10:33 AM on September 14, 2011 [36 favorites]


Has your mother in law asked why you are staying with her? You're going to have to tell her why you're there. It's probably best to keep it simple in explanation, with no description of the lead-up: your brother in law hit your wife and shoved you. Those are facts. Your values are such that there is never an excuse to hit or shove someone, and your job is to protect your family no matter what. Even the most objectifying Baptist mother-in-law with whom you share few values will understand that "it's a man's job to protect his family."

Your response - and your wife's response - has to be exactly the same every time: violence is unacceptable, you were hit and shoved, and that's why you're ending contact. It doesn't matter who provoked who, what you or your wife said or did, none of it matters. Violence is unacceptable to you as a family. You can be upfront about that to your mother in law, who has probably witnessed brother's violent outbursts before. You can tell him, in no uncertain terms, exactly the above, if it comes to that. If your mother in law tries to broker a meeting, you need to tell her that tempers are high and now is not the time.

You also owe it to your kids to talk to them about your family's values, and how sometimes people we love do things that are terrible and we have to stay away from them. They must be really confused right now and surely sense that something is wrong with the grownups. Reassure them that even though their uncle did something terrible, you stood up for what was right and got everyone away and safe, and you always will.
posted by juniperesque at 10:33 AM on September 14, 2011 [18 favorites]


Sounds like people were drinking.. and 'violent' has a particular context that I can't get around with the only incident being 'hitting on the arm' and 'shoving'.

Maybe he felt you were being condescending. What actually happened around the 'hit on the arm'? what led up to him shoving you?

I imagine there's some level of jealousy, or a perception that the sister that went to the big city looks down on her southern family, or has somehow shamed their name in town.

Now, before all the haters jump - I'm not condoning someone hitting anyone. But the description of the incident just isn't jiving with 'violent attack' with the need to flee for your lives in the middle of the night, and fearing for your life.

I'm stuck trying to picture someone hitting someone on the arm.. was it a mislaid full-on punch that missed the face or body, or a back handed 'get away from me' slap? And After that, if you stepped in front of him between your wife and him, I can then see the follow-up shove. (again, not condoning or toherwise, just trying to get the context and picture)

So, I can't make a call on if this is somewhat of an overreaction or a very smart move where you should just cut your losses and go home and not trouble yourself with dealing with that side of the family anymore.
posted by rich at 10:39 AM on September 14, 2011 [6 favorites]


Just to be clear...

No. I don't think you are in immediate danger from the brother. But then again, what do I know? I am a stranger on the Internet.

Come to think of it, you and your wife don't know her brother very well, either. Does he have emotional problems? Substance abuse issues? Cognitive impairments that alter his perceptions? All of the above??

It sounds like he wouldn't intentionally come after any of you, but he sounds very far from stable. Why roll the dice again when you already lost big on your first go?

Cut your trip short. Make up a work related excuse to her family and exit quickly and quietly.

Good luck.

(and instead of going straight home, maybe think about traveling someplace fun for a few days first so that the vacation feels like a vacation again)
posted by jbenben at 10:42 AM on September 14, 2011 [6 favorites]


He says he's appalled by what happened but he's still blaming my wife for somehow causing the situation, which makes me feel like he's really not safe.

If he's still blaming your wife, then it doesn't sound like either you or her should be talking to him just yet, regardless of context or severity.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:44 AM on September 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


Sounds like a mix of insecurity, grudge, and alcohol (?). His behaviour might seem out of the blue to you, but I'm willing to bet this isn't the first time he's resorted to force.

So.. with those assumptions:

I'd mention it your wife's mom. If there is some reason why you think you can't talk about it with her then I'd arrange to leave immediately.

I probably wouldn't report this to the police but would make quite clear to the BIL that if it ever happens again you will (and mean it!).

It's not your job to help the BIL sort this stuff out. It sounds like he's got problems and he's the only one who can fix those.

He says he's appalled by what happened but he's still blaming my wife for somehow causing the situation

Yeah, that's a big flag.
posted by mazola at 10:46 AM on September 14, 2011


It's very telling that you wind up staying with your MIL and she doesn't even ask about it. They are used to sweeping bad behavior under the rug which does not bode well for change. Do not stay in the brother's house again and keep interaction to a bare minimum. His kids are your children's cousins and I think it's worth it to keep some kind of relationship going forward, choose how you want to do that on your terms.

Of course, your wife can have whatever relationship she wishes with her siblings, that is her business.
posted by readery at 10:55 AM on September 14, 2011 [22 favorites]


After thinking of all the things I wanted to say here and how best to convey said thoughts, I discovered that juniperesque had already said it, albeit more succinctly than I probably would have.

Bottom line (again) is that your safety and the safety of your wife and children trumps all else.

Violence is never an acceptable or reasonable response and if the brother was really so upset he could have asked you to leave his house.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 10:58 AM on September 14, 2011 [2 favorites]


Sounds like people were drinking.. and 'violent' has a particular context that I can't get around with the only incident being 'hitting on the arm' and 'shoving'.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. In any situation, shoving and hitting on the arm would suggest that this is a person who is not in control of their temper. When you combine that with alcohol and gun ownership, that's a very scary scene. Good on you for leaving his house when you did. I personally would continue in that path and leave the general area like today. I also like jbenben's idea of continuing your vacation somewhere else and trying to enjoy the remaining time, rather than just going home.

And yes, both you and your wife should be discussing this with your kids. You do not want to perpetuate the family history of denial and avoidance. It's okay if you're confused. You don't have to have all the answers to talk to them. You can share your sadness and hurt with them. Leaving immediately was a good example to them of how to protect yourself when you're around dangerous people. Given the lets-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room atmosphere at your MIL's, I would consider your kids interests when deciding how to address those relationships too and in deciding when to leave her home as well.
posted by marsha56 at 11:05 AM on September 14, 2011 [16 favorites]


I can only say that personally, I would cut a person like this completely out of my life forever, right now. Obviously that may be problematical for your wife but I'm pretty hard-line about this sort of thing. Life is too short to be spending time with, and worrying about, unpredictably violent assholes with a chip on their shoulder.
posted by Decani at 11:07 AM on September 14, 2011 [8 favorites]


Just wanted to add that your BIL may never, ever change his opinion from one of, "She made me do it."

Often it's impossible to get someone like that to see that their behavior was their choice, rather than some unpredictable and unstoppable force unleashed by someone else.
posted by Falwless at 11:17 AM on September 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


Falwless: Just wanted to add that your BIL may never, ever change his opinion from one of, "She made me do it."

Often it's impossible to get someone like that to see that their behavior was their choice, rather than some unpredictable and unstoppable force unleashed by someone else.


I agree, except I would say it's often impossible to get someone like that to *admit* that their behavior was their choice. I think they almost always know quite well that it is their choice and are in full control. But why would they ever admit it was their choice when that would take away their justification for behaving that way, and would take away all the power that comes along with behaving that way? (People walking on eggshells around you, people kowtowing to what you want, people having to justify themselves to you, you getting to lash out whenever the urge strikes you, etc.)
posted by Ashley801 at 11:22 AM on September 14, 2011 [7 favorites]


Something set him off and we're still not sure what it was.

And OP, seriously, I think you should get your hands on a copy of Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?" as soon as you can. I think you will understand this incident very well after you read it, and maybe a lot more about your wife's family dynamic too.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:25 AM on September 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


I would go to the police. If you're serious in your view that this type of violent behavior is unacceptable, reporting the assault to the police is the right thing to do.
posted by medusa at 11:31 AM on September 14, 2011


While I disagree mightily with rich above, he (she?) brings up a very very good point!

When weird drama like this happens out of the blue, you feel ashamed for even having been in proximity to it, let alone involved or the cause of it, and you seek to minimize the event or sweep it under the rug entirely. rich's comment illustrates perfectly what I mean, it's the sort of public judgement you want to avoid at all costs, hence the sense of shame and resulting secrecy.

In this atmosphere of secrecy and shame, abusers flourish. Furthermore, the fact that the brother doesn't take responsibility for his behavior here tells anyone who can spot the pattern that this guy is probably emotionally and physically violent fairly often. Blaming the victim is a common reaction. Actually, when the practice takes deep root, entire families will blame the victim of the main abuser's wrath, say a younger sibling, rather than holding the abuser accountable for their actions. In that dynamic, it's Little Timmy's fault that his fork clinked on his dinner plate upsetting his Father, who then explodes in fury and ruins dinner. It's sad.

I just can't understand why you are at the mother's house acting like this weird and dangerous thing never happened. If your wife broke her silence, might she be blamed?

Twenty or thirty years ago, the way you are handling this is exactly how things would go down in my family after an egregious and possibly dangerous outburst. Thank god I only landed in the hospital for a physical injury once, but the years and years of therapy I needed to get over the cumulative trauma attests to the fact that it's very serious, this type of thing.

Lot's of people over the years made excuses for my mom, too. Even though I was 4 years old, then 12, then 17 - surely it took two to tango and my mom must have been provoked - right? Right??

OP, you and your wife have a lot of sorting out to do once you get home. Thanks to rich's comment, I hope this answer was a little more insightful and a little less rant-y.

I think you and your wife might be in emotional shock right now. Your thinking is probably a bit jumbled, conflicted, you're not sure if you are feeling angry, or sad, or what.

If you think you might be in some state of shock, I'm pretty sure your best move is to quietly get yourselves someplace safe and sort the rest out later.

Again, good luck!
posted by jbenben at 11:33 AM on September 14, 2011 [15 favorites]


I read this and had a tremendous deja-vu. I'm your wife: my brother pulled the same stunt to us 2 years ago. He didn't touch us, but he got incredibly aggressive and violent, verbally. I also live 6000 miles from him, and I took the decision never to see him again. This was 2 years ago, and it still saddens me, but I would never ever put my husband and children in a similar position again, so even if he is an will always be my only brother, he will never be able to hurt us again. Now we have our own families, our spouses, our kids.
posted by buck:fuller at 11:54 AM on September 14, 2011 [1 favorite]


If there is not some kind of substance abuse involved in this guy's behavior, I will eat my hat.
posted by selfmedicating at 11:58 AM on September 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Furthermore, the fact that the brother doesn't take responsibility for his behavior here tells anyone who can spot the pattern that this guy is probably emotionally and physically violent fairly often. Blaming the victim is a common reaction. Actually, when the practice takes deep root, entire families will blame the victim of the main abuser's wrath, say a younger sibling, rather than holding the abuser accountable for their actions. In that dynamic, it's Little Timmy's fault that his fork clinked on his dinner plate upsetting his Father, who then explodes in fury and ruins dinner. It's sad.

jbenben is so right about this.

I think dynamics like this stay alive for 2 reasons

1. -Nobody wants to rock the boat or become the target by speaking the truth and the reality. (The reality in this case that your BIL physically assaulted you and your wife, that his behavior was 100% his responsibility, that it was despicable, and nothing you could have done would have made his behavior okay or justified.)

2. -Sometimes the other people involved are good people who want to be reasonable and fair, and so they think they should really scrutinize their own behavior to see if they really did do something awful and it really is their fault that the abuser flipped out. This is good-faith behavior in a situation that was set up in bad faith- set up so that they will always be the one who loses. The abuser doesn't examine his/her own behavior like this and agonize over whether it was right or wrong.

I see reason 2 in your question here:

-This doesn't seem to be a normal pattern for him, but something in his relationship with his sister really, really set him off.
-Something set him off and we're still not sure what it was.
-I don't want to be unforgiving - I just can't predict if that firestorm could appear again and honestly that night i feared for my life and the lives of my wife and kids


I think you should stop this line of thinking! Stop wondering whatever thoughtless/inconsiderate thing your wife could have done that set her poor put-upon brother off. She didn't cause this incident, he did. There is nothing she could have possibly done that could have reasonably justified his behavior or made it okay, so it doesn't matter. By continuing to wonder what it was that she did, I feel like that plays into the dynamic where everyone questions the abused people as to what they did wrong, rather than just refusing to accept the abusive behavior.

And FFS don’t APOLOGIZE to the BIL or anyone else for feeling the need to do whatever is necessary to protecting yourself and your family after your BIL created a bizarre situation where you feared for your life. If he shows up at that house, tell him to stay away from you and tell him exactly why. He's the one who should be ashamed here.

As to reason #1 – your wife might not want to stand up to this, fearing that if she rocks the boat she will be the one who is blamed by her family and she will be ostracized. And she might be completely right about that. But IMO, if that is the way her family is, it would be better for all of you to have no contact with them…
posted by Ashley801 at 12:01 PM on September 14, 2011 [11 favorites]


Omg. So sorry to threadsit. Really!!

I just remembered a weird incident a number of years ago where some crazy lady grabbed my arm hard enough to leave bruises, and did a bunch of other upsetting stuff, after she fender-bendered my car in a parking lot. I had to leave my car there and go a few blocks away to call the police to escort me back so I could retrieve my vehicle without incident...

After fulfilling an important business obligation the next morning, I spent the next 3 days in bed. My assistant finally checked in on me, and it was only then that I realized I had been really truly assaulted, that I probably should have pressed charges when the police offered to arrest the crazy woman, and that I was depressed and in shock!

My point is you, your wife, or your kids might have a delayed but serious reaction to this event as time passes, so be on the lookout for that. Don't be afraid to get help or take really really good and gentle care of yourselves if you need it.
posted by jbenben at 12:33 PM on September 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


jbenben and Ashley801 speak the truth.

In this atmosphere of secrecy and shame, abusers flourish.

This is true. Also, very funny if you boom it out in stentorian tones. No, wait - it's very funny if you get your family in the car and go home or to a hotel at least 100 miles away where your BIL can't find you, and where your wife's mother can't put emotional pressure on her to conform to a sick system just by her very presence. Then it might be very funny. Or after some time and maybe therapy, especially for your wife, it might be funny.

This is good-faith behavior in a situation that was set up in bad faith- set up so that they will always be the one who loses.

Very well put.

Look, OP, you and your family were assaulted and threatened. It seems more complex because it's family, and it sort of is, but you can't give this guy the benefit of the doubt, and your intuition that you're not that safe at your MIL's house is probably right.

To your wife, this is so ancient that she and her brother and her mother could probably sing it in three-part harmony. To you, it is horrifyingly new. You have really learned something about her experiences and this could open a door to greater strength and intimacy for you two, if you let it.
posted by tel3path at 12:41 PM on September 14, 2011 [5 favorites]


I'm sorry that happened. Ugh.

I've said this before here, but what I think is a big problem with this story is not even so much that Brother lost his temper while drunk and flipped out (don't get me wrong, that's still crappy), it's that, post-event, he's still trying to make that someone else's fault.

A grown man who tries to blame other people - especially smaller, weaker people - for his emotional state is a dude who needs to do some spiritual work. On his own time. While sober. Away from your wife and your babies.

I don't mean to be all "Oh, this is totally fine, here's how you handle it", because it sucks and it's going to keep sucking for a little while. But in your shoes, I would stop lying by proxy to your wife's mom, which is something that is currently probably making you guys feel kind of bad and ashamed, as though you did something wrong (you didn't.)

(And maybe also, depending on how freaked out your kids are, calmly explain this to your kids - "Uncle Bob lost his temper really badly the other night. Everybody gets angry sometimes, that's normal. But it's never okay to get violent with people. So we left. We still love him as a person and we're hoping he can work this out for himself. We will never leave you with people unless we think they're safe for you to be around. It's okay to be scared and worried, but Mom and I will protect you, I promise.")

Basically, I urge you and your wife to stop participating in a game of denialism, blameshifting, secrecy, shame, and downplaying. You will feel better and more clear about the whole incident.

As to the brother - if you feel able to talk to him, in a few days or weeks, I would maybe say something like "Look. Everybody loses their temper once in a while. I get it. But I'm going to be very clear about this to you: first, you don't get to blow your top like that around my family, and second, you are a grown man and responsible for your own emotional state. Stop blaming my wife for your actions. Those two things aren't negotiable. I need to protect my family - as a family man yourself, I'm sure you understand. I hope we can keep having a relationship."

But I also think it's okay for your wife to decide that she just doesn't want to keep having a relationship with him right now. I really, really encourage you to sit down and talk to the mom about what happened. And, if the family dynamic has a history of craziness, be prepared to be firm with the mom about the brother not visiting the house while you're there.

I hope you guys find some peace with this. I feel such empathy for you. What a terrible situation.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 12:42 PM on September 14, 2011 [24 favorites]


Except for my sister and me, our entire family are Southerners for untold generations, and let me tell you, what your brother-in-law did is an enormous transgression by Southern standards.

Then, the last night, the brother got violent. Started picking a fight that we couldn't stop, accusing us of mocking him and his family and wife.

In spite of your brother-in-law's reticence-- it might even be genuine ignorance-- I think I can tell you why it happened.

You see, you were, in fact, mocking him and his family.

You mocked them by being who you are and merely existing.

He felt completely and utterly inferior to you and your family, and the only way he could salve his wounded pride was by asserting physical dominance over you-- which he did.

Maybe you were lucky enough never to see a certain bumper sticker that was quite popular a few years ago (I saw it more than twenty times here in Seattle!):

my kid just beat up your honor student

That's what this was all about.
posted by jamjam at 12:51 PM on September 14, 2011 [13 favorites]


Echoing "selfmedicating", substance abuse is a very likely contributing factor here, either alcohol, drugs, or both. We had an incident with my brother attacking my then 19 year old son, ostensibly about wanting my son to take his stuff out of my parents basement, but my brother got violent and threatened to shoot my son. I was out of town and my husband was at work, and my son ran away, and spent an awful night wandering around and taking caffeine pills to stay awake. When he came home we had to take him to the emergency room for severe anxiety.

I made the mistake of trying to smooth it over with my brother who never really admitted he did anything wrong, but my son never spoke to him again. It turns out my son was right, my brother was addicted to prescription meds and went through all my elderly parents money before they passed away. Then he left us with the mess and moved back thousands of miles away. We could have saved us all money and grief if we had thrown him out when he attacked our son.

I would say take your family home or somewhere else right now, don't stay another minute in that toxic environment. Your kids saw their uncle go berserk, and now they see everyone acting like nothing happened. I know from experience that is not good for anyone.
posted by mermayd at 1:38 PM on September 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


Lots of other great advice, but as to this:

if he comes by his mom's house, only 30 minutes away for the next few weeks until we return home, I would be petrified and would feel like I would need to ask him to leave, which could trigger the whole thing again - the offense that his out-of-town brother in law would tell him he can't visit his mother's house would not go over well.

This would be the wrong move. It's definitely not your place to ask him to leave someone else's house. That would go over very poorly, too. If you're at all concerned that this might happen, then you need to do what others have suggested, and leave that house right away, so you don't get find yourself in a battle over turf that isn't yours in a family that you don't fully understand. It's up to the MIL who gets to enter her house, not you, and if you don't feel secure you should leave immediately. And tell her why, either way. The denial has to stop, if only for your family's sanity.
posted by Miko at 1:46 PM on September 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


I'm not clear on why you WOULDN'T tell your MIL, the same as you would about anything else freaky that happened in your day. Car wreck? Mugged? Threatened in the middle of the night by a bully? All worthy of mentioning. You don't have to try to get her on your side, just don't buy into their game and make it into a Big Secret. Those are just festering and icky. Blech.

Keep things transparent with your kids, too. It's awful when you're a kid and the adults are acting like weirdos but tell you everything's fine (with the implication that it's all in your head.) They know something's up. Tell them uncle so-and-so yelled and hit and was scary so you left because you didn't want them or yourselves to have to be scared. That seems like something useful to model.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:35 PM on September 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


So:

1. Leave the house. Go home.

2. Make sure the kids understand that you left so abruptly because their uncle was behaving very badly, in a violent and unsafe way, and getting all of you to safety as quickly as possible was the most important concern at the time. If the kids want to know why, or whether you'll be going back, or whether he's a bad guy, just say "your mother and I don't know yet, and we need to talk about it to figure it out. we're all safe now, that's what is important."

3. Have a talk with your wife to establish what your new family boundaries will be. As you discuss, remember that you're discussing two things: first, what is necessary for your safety? and second, what kind of people do you want your children to grow up around? After all, what may be something you and your wife can deal with can easily also be something that really confuses or scars your children.

4. Once you've established these boundaries, communicate them when relevant, in a forthright way. Your wife can say things like "No, [brother], we're not coming out to visit again. You were violent, you were aggressive, and you blamed me for your behavior. We're adults now, and need to behave like it; since you can't, you don't get to be part of my daily life." and "Sorry, mom, we're not going to visit while [brother] is there, and we don't want to talk about what happened or try to smooth things over. We'll come out if you promise he won't be there, and if he shows up, we're walking out and not coming back. But if you want to come visit us, we'll pick up the airfare!" or whatever the boundaries will be. Since they're her family, she'll have to set them. Obviously you'll back her up in practice.

5. Also communicate those boundaries to your kids, in this context: "they're family, so we aren't going to cut them out of our lives despite the bad behavior, but we certainly will keep [brother] from harming us again, until he learns the kind of lessons he should have learned as a kid: impulse control, respect, and not using his hands aggressively."

Obviously the specific boundaries I give above are just examples, you and your wife have to reach consensus on those. Just make sure you deal with it in an open, unapologetic and straightforward manner -- your kids deserve to learn, that's the way it should be done.
posted by davejay at 3:10 PM on September 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


So there seems to be some confusion on this point, but the OP said that they were "drinking beer" before the incident.

So I would say that drinking is definitely part of it.
posted by guster4lovers at 4:15 PM on September 14, 2011


I have no doubt that this is a complex situation, but let me lay out the "facts" as you have told us, because honestly, you seem to be focused on details and may be are too upset to see the forest threw the trees:

Your wife's brother laid his hands on you and your wife out of anger and is blaming it on your wife.

In my opinion NOTHING else matters. Not how hard he struck, not if he was "provoked", not if he was drinking. There is absolutely no excuse outside of self defense for him to do this, and frankly, you have no way of knowing whether his next physical outburst will be of equal or greater magnitude.

Realistically, if this man is acting in such an inappropriate manner as an adult, then it is unlikely that he will suddenly and miraculously change his ways. You have children, and their safety (as well as yours) is far more important then being forgiving, polite, or saving face with your wife's family.

In light of this, I highly suggest that you consider not seeing this man again for the foreseeable future. Guster4lovers's advice about setting boundaries that entail only seeing the rest of the family when the brother is not present is a very good.

Also consider, is allowing you children to know their relatives worth introducing them to "horrible, confused, toxic mess of codependency and objectification" as you have described it? Just because they happen to be related to you does not automatically mean that they are a healthy influence for your children.
posted by Shouraku at 5:08 PM on September 14, 2011 [4 favorites]


For many people, alcohol is implicated in abusive behavior, but it's not a given, and it's not a valid excuse. Your brother in law behaved abusively. This is domestic violence.

the brother got violent. Started picking a fight that we couldn't stop, accusing us of mocking him and his family and wife. There was NO way to diffuse it. I can't tell you how much we tried to be solicitous. He ended up hitting my wife on the arm and shoving me

He says he's appalled by what happened but he's still blaming my wife


You and your wife have to decide how much involvement you want with this problem. Your sister-in-law and their children are in danger. I'm not a domestic violence expert, but there is almost certainly a DV hotline or shelter in your area. The police or United Way can refer you. The phone book where I live has a social services section that would have that information. Don't hesitate to call the police if you must; he may have a history of domestic violence calls. I'd share this with family, for the sake of their safety.
posted by theora55 at 5:32 PM on September 14, 2011


I'd meet with him, in a public place such as a restaurant. Just you and him, not your wife. I'd begin by saying we're all just trying to live our lives and raise our kids as best we can, then i'd steer him to explain where he's coming from. If that were to go well, I might meet again in a day or two, this time with the three of you ( and possibly his wife). If I had any hope of salvaging the relationship, I wouldn't leave town without seeing him in person.
posted by at at 5:50 PM on September 14, 2011


I can only second what's already been said. I hope you guys have all moved on to a safer, less stressful location.

Think of it this way; your instincts were right, and they got you out of a dangerous situation.

I am the liberal "black sheep" in my family of rednecks, we couldn't be more different, but no one has ever ever yelled at me or offered to hit me, even during heated arguments. That's a line we don't cross. This guy doesn't see that line, and so he's not to be trusted or tolerated.

It's not about politics, at the root; it's about violence and control and whatever fucked up issues the brother has. I can guarantee you that no matter what you did or said, he would have acted the same, because it's part of who he is.
posted by emjaybee at 7:45 PM on September 14, 2011 [3 favorites]


It's true that you miscalculated on the length of visit but also true that you both misread the situation.

Neither of you were prepared for a brother who hadn't changed. As a male child, he was expected to be dominant--his position in the family probably was not as untenable as hers. She was probably expected to be compliant. Her leaving might have seemed to him to be a rejection of his choice to stay in a world that was supposed to be pretty much his oyster. Perhaps every break with the past she has managed over these years seemed an affront to her brother.

Even your innocent enjoyment of his pastimes--fishing, shooting and barbecuing--might have seemed to mock him as you tried to express your appreciation. The more novel you found it all, the angrier he might have become. He simmered and, as you are not accustomed to reading that kind of dynamic, you didn't see the explosion coming. Perhaps your wife didn't realize either just how different--in his opinion--she has become in her new life. How not on guard anymore. Perhaps she thought everyone had grown up, as she has, and it didn't occur to her that her brother's hospitality was masking resentment. But her brother is still stuck in that toxic mess and, if he is surrounded by co-dependent family members, he still has no incentive to change.

You've had great advice here about how to tell the truth to and about your in-laws and to extract yourself and your family from this dysfunctional mess. Clear the air with your children and give your wife support here--no blaming the victim--he abused her emotionally as well. Violence and abuse are never ok.

Once you've put this behind you and have reestablished normalcy in your own family, think about limiting your future interactions, and perhaps those of your children, with this BIL. Maybe stay away from his turf completely. Support your wife in her own future choices for interactions with her family, but many people with such families find they must maintain a cordial distance.

About the other miscalculation, my standard advice is to adopt a rule for being or having house guests such as: Almost anyone can stay one night; very pleasant people, two or--if they have traveled a great distance--even three nights. But four nights are too many for anyone to stay except the dearest, most compatible, beloved ones who have proved themselves and stood the test of time.

I'm really sorry this happened instead of the pleasant family interaction and bonding of cousins you'd both hoped for. We can learn from everything and, if we're lucky, we get to move on. Just consider yourself lucky.
posted by Anitanola at 11:39 PM on September 14, 2011 [5 favorites]


Also, I don't think you or your wife is alone in this experience, though its extremity is definitely not normal. My father comes from a large extended family in Texas and the South, moved as an adult to the Northeast and became educated and successful in ways that his family at home did not. At times there has been resentment and feelings of competition from the family members who stayed put. I think that this can be a very real part of the family dynamic where there is a cultural/economic rift that plays into stereotypes about superiority and inferiority.
posted by Miko at 7:29 AM on September 15, 2011 [1 favorite]


To your wife, this is so ancient that she and her brother and her mother could probably sing it in three-part harmony. To you, it is horrifyingly new. You have really learned something about her experiences and this could open a door to greater strength and intimacy for you two, if you let it.

I really liked what tel3path had to say here. This is a horrible situation for you and your family, but I hope that there is a silver lining and that this is the end result. It would be beautiful to take such an ugly event and turn it into something that eventually leads to even more understanding, closeness and compassion between you and your wife.
posted by marsha56 at 7:32 PM on September 15, 2011


« Older The Mystery of the Man with the U-Haul Truck   |   How would you translate this into English? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.