Malazan Book of the Fallen: Deadhouse Gates Plot?
September 3, 2011 11:55 AM Subscribe
Malazan Book of the Fallen: Deadhouse Gates Plot?
So I'm reading "Deadhouse Gates" from the Malazan Book of the Fallen Dekalogy . I'm now on page 270 where Felisin/Baudin/Herboric meet with Krupe and realized I have no idea what all those people are doing wandering around on that continent.
I got the feeling I should know this, but I'm reading with some pauses inbetween, my memory is weak, and I can't make sense of whats going on. It all seems rather pointless.
Mappo&Ikarium: Their motives are intentionally vague, I guess it will be revealed later (They just met with Apsalar/Crokus/Fiddler).
Apsalar, Crokus, Fiddler: In some connection with Big Ben and Kalam, although they are now separated. Heading somewhere through the desert, but why?
Felisin, Baudin, Heboric: No Idea whatsoever, seem to want to rendezvouz with Duiker?
Duiker: got separated from Kulp and is now aiming to meet with Coltaine, why was he supposed to meet Heboric on the coast in a boat?
Kulp: is sailing to meet Heboric, can't recall why.
Kalam: started the Whirlwind, now he's wandering.
Maybe someone could spell it out for me, I don't mind spoilers (don't tell me what Icarium&Mappo are up to).
I really like the promise of a big (finished!) fantasy saga, but right now I can't make much sense of it and it all seems quite contrived, maybe someone can enlighten me.
So I'm reading "Deadhouse Gates" from the Malazan Book of the Fallen Dekalogy . I'm now on page 270 where Felisin/Baudin/Herboric meet with Krupe and realized I have no idea what all those people are doing wandering around on that continent.
I got the feeling I should know this, but I'm reading with some pauses inbetween, my memory is weak, and I can't make sense of whats going on. It all seems rather pointless.
Mappo&Ikarium: Their motives are intentionally vague, I guess it will be revealed later (They just met with Apsalar/Crokus/Fiddler).
Apsalar, Crokus, Fiddler: In some connection with Big Ben and Kalam, although they are now separated. Heading somewhere through the desert, but why?
Felisin, Baudin, Heboric: No Idea whatsoever, seem to want to rendezvouz with Duiker?
Duiker: got separated from Kulp and is now aiming to meet with Coltaine, why was he supposed to meet Heboric on the coast in a boat?
Kulp: is sailing to meet Heboric, can't recall why.
Kalam: started the Whirlwind, now he's wandering.
Maybe someone could spell it out for me, I don't mind spoilers (don't tell me what Icarium&Mappo are up to).
I really like the promise of a big (finished!) fantasy saga, but right now I can't make much sense of it and it all seems quite contrived, maybe someone can enlighten me.
This is Erikson's MO. You are deliberately confused on many points. Some plot points are revealed, but never in a timely fashion. Erikson also feels no compunction to wrap up all the loose ends by the end of Book 10, just a warning.
posted by reverend cuttle at 12:22 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by reverend cuttle at 12:22 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: (I have read garden of the moon)
OK, then maybe it's just not my kind of book. What gets me annoyed is when the motives of the characters are (seemingly) illogical or not explained. I get no sastisfaction out of having to slog through 736 pages of not mystery, but intentionally obfuscate, misleading and unclear writing, just to being entertained by the last 100 pages.
I tried this once with Pychon's "Gravitys Rainbow", and the experience of having essentially to reread a book, because the beginnig only makes sense retroperspectively, is not fun.
posted by SweetLiesOfBokonon at 12:31 PM on September 3, 2011
OK, then maybe it's just not my kind of book. What gets me annoyed is when the motives of the characters are (seemingly) illogical or not explained. I get no sastisfaction out of having to slog through 736 pages of not mystery, but intentionally obfuscate, misleading and unclear writing, just to being entertained by the last 100 pages.
I tried this once with Pychon's "Gravitys Rainbow", and the experience of having essentially to reread a book, because the beginnig only makes sense retroperspectively, is not fun.
posted by SweetLiesOfBokonon at 12:31 PM on September 3, 2011
If you are not up for thousands of pages of intentionally obfuscating and misleading writing, the Malazan series may not be for you. Erikson keeps a lot of secrets for a very long time, and in general prefers to be kind of indirect and implicit even when he finally reveals them.
posted by dfan at 12:36 PM on September 3, 2011
posted by dfan at 12:36 PM on September 3, 2011
Yeah, this is very much a conscious stylistic choice that does not ever change throughout the series. And the books don't get any shorter.
posted by restless_nomad at 12:50 PM on September 3, 2011
posted by restless_nomad at 12:50 PM on September 3, 2011
I am reading the series a second time right now, one book ahead of my friend who is reading it for the first time.
There are many mysteries in the series and often you don't know at first whether something is just unknown to the reader or if it is actually a mystery to the characters (eg, wtf is an Azath, should I know what that is?). Keep in mind that this is a series, so often something will be brought up early in the series, but you only understand it many books later. As well, there are things that just aren't explained, they are simply part of the world and you learn to live with them as you get immersed in the world.
What restless_nomad said is absolutely right, the mystery in the series is very much intentional, you really have to put a lot of trust in the author. I suggest finishing Deadhouse Gates and deciding then whether to continue with the series or not. If you like Deadhouse at all it really is worth it and gets even better in subsequent read throughs.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 2:18 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are many mysteries in the series and often you don't know at first whether something is just unknown to the reader or if it is actually a mystery to the characters (eg, wtf is an Azath, should I know what that is?). Keep in mind that this is a series, so often something will be brought up early in the series, but you only understand it many books later. As well, there are things that just aren't explained, they are simply part of the world and you learn to live with them as you get immersed in the world.
What restless_nomad said is absolutely right, the mystery in the series is very much intentional, you really have to put a lot of trust in the author. I suggest finishing Deadhouse Gates and deciding then whether to continue with the series or not. If you like Deadhouse at all it really is worth it and gets even better in subsequent read throughs.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 2:18 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
PS. those poems and excerpts at the start of ever actually are important and will give you bits of info. Even the 'author' and date can be important. Yes it is that detailed.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 2:21 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Midnight Rambler at 2:21 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Malazan Empire forums are very helpful. http://www.malazanempire.com/site/
I found it absolutely worth going with the flow and being patient with this series. It paid off for me. YMMV of course.
posted by purenitrous at 8:52 PM on September 3, 2011
I found it absolutely worth going with the flow and being patient with this series. It paid off for me. YMMV of course.
posted by purenitrous at 8:52 PM on September 3, 2011
Deadhouse Gates has a sub-plot, the Chain of Dogs, that is one of my favorite epic stories ever. If you can go with the flow and get through the book, even though it's kind of of a slog not knowing who everyone is at first, it really is worth it. If you can't, then this series isn't really for you, unfortunately, as it continues that way the whole way through.
posted by gemmy at 9:16 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by gemmy at 9:16 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm on my first read-through of the series, and am just now finishing up Book 7 (Reaper's Gale) - and I would absolutely echo everyone here who's urged you to stick with it. Yes, things do get even more complicated (for a while there it feels like the goal of each book is to announce, "Hey! Remember that super-ancient race from the last book? Well here's an even ANCIENTER ancient race!") but the payoffs do come, and they are worth it. I can kind of see why one might give up partway through the second book - the first book left me entertained enough to keep with the series, but at the time it felt like some of its bigger plot points got wrapped up in a weirdly abrupt manner ... but things that seem contrived or out of left field earlier on do generally get picked back up in a satisfying way.
Moreover, the fact that you're reading it now, with all 10 books published, should help a lot. It must have been ridiculously difficult to keep with the series when you had to wait months or more between volumes; now, you can have the next book waiting for you the moment you finish the current one - less time to lose track of the details!
posted by DingoMutt at 9:26 PM on September 3, 2011
Moreover, the fact that you're reading it now, with all 10 books published, should help a lot. It must have been ridiculously difficult to keep with the series when you had to wait months or more between volumes; now, you can have the next book waiting for you the moment you finish the current one - less time to lose track of the details!
posted by DingoMutt at 9:26 PM on September 3, 2011
Response by poster: OK, you convinced me, I'll take the challenge, at least I will finish Deadhouse Gates.
Although I just hit another bump, apparently Fiddler/Crokus/Apsalar are wandering because there is a rumour about a mythical Gate that might allow them to travel faster to Malaz (if they are lucky). Why would anybody want to do this? Just go there by Warren or foot or whatever, that surely would be simpler and less dangerous than their current endeavour.
posted by SweetLiesOfBokonon at 2:55 AM on September 9, 2011
Although I just hit another bump, apparently Fiddler/Crokus/Apsalar are wandering because there is a rumour about a mythical Gate that might allow them to travel faster to Malaz (if they are lucky). Why would anybody want to do this? Just go there by Warren or foot or whatever, that surely would be simpler and less dangerous than their current endeavour.
posted by SweetLiesOfBokonon at 2:55 AM on September 9, 2011
Well Fiddler and Apsalar are technically deserters from the army - they can't exactly march in and sail through customs.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:38 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by restless_nomad at 6:38 AM on September 9, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
A couple of specific answers:
Mappo and Icarium's deal will be revealed over several books. They're deliberately mysterious at this point.
A, C and F, sort of likewise. In theory they're trying to bring Apsalar home - in practice there's more going on that will become clear by the end of the book.
F, B, and H just escaped from the prison mines and are trying to get somewhere safe. There's no super clear reason or direction, and there's some unrevealed drama there but mostly they're just wandering.
Duiker is a historian. Heboric is a historian. Heboric was convicted of treason for one of his histories, and Duiker feels guilty about it and was trying to spring him.
Kulp is doing Duiker the favor of going to fetch Heboric for him, more or less.
What Kalam's doing will become really obvious eventually - he has business somewhere, and he's taking a kind of roundabout route there.
It's a huge, intricate, painstakingly crafted series, and there's a lot of reward there if you slog through, but Erikson has no interest whatsoever in leading readers by the hand. He very often introduces stuff and you're just supposed to play along until it all makes sense. It all more or less will. (I hope, anyway - I've read 9 of 10 and am rereading in prep for #10.)
(Also... you have read Gardens of the Moon, right?)
posted by restless_nomad at 12:06 PM on September 3, 2011 [1 favorite]