Getting electrician to fix questionable work
August 24, 2011 4:44 AM Subscribe
We had an electrician do some work on our house, and we're not happy with it. What do I need to ask for to make sure it's fixed properly?
The two problems, which we only noticed when we got home, are:
- He replaced several recessed light fittings with dimmable compact fluorescent downlights (yes, I know downlights are terrible but we didn't build this house), and as a result the dimmers in a couple of wall switches had to be changed. The new dimmers buzz audibly at minimum, maximum and anywhere in between. The noise is coming from the dimmer switches themselves, not the globes. Each dimmer controls about four globes.
- He installed a ceiling exhaust fan in the kitchen. I asked (by email) for a fan with draft prevention but what we got just has a grille with a fan above it that vents into the roof cavity. This is particularly annoying because the whole reason we got the recessed lights replaced was to stop the holes they had in them sucking all the warm air out (the new downlights have glass faces).
I'm going to email him tomorrow and I'm wondering what the best solutions for these problems will be. Is stopping the buzzing just a matter of getting a better quality switch? And what do I need to ask for to get an exhaust fan with at least a basic level of airtightness - maybe automatic shutters, or something that fits above the fan?
Also, it seems reasonable for us to pay for the difference in the cost of parts but not labour as this isn't our fault (we haven't paid anything yet). Fair enough?
The two problems, which we only noticed when we got home, are:
- He replaced several recessed light fittings with dimmable compact fluorescent downlights (yes, I know downlights are terrible but we didn't build this house), and as a result the dimmers in a couple of wall switches had to be changed. The new dimmers buzz audibly at minimum, maximum and anywhere in between. The noise is coming from the dimmer switches themselves, not the globes. Each dimmer controls about four globes.
- He installed a ceiling exhaust fan in the kitchen. I asked (by email) for a fan with draft prevention but what we got just has a grille with a fan above it that vents into the roof cavity. This is particularly annoying because the whole reason we got the recessed lights replaced was to stop the holes they had in them sucking all the warm air out (the new downlights have glass faces).
I'm going to email him tomorrow and I'm wondering what the best solutions for these problems will be. Is stopping the buzzing just a matter of getting a better quality switch? And what do I need to ask for to get an exhaust fan with at least a basic level of airtightness - maybe automatic shutters, or something that fits above the fan?
Also, it seems reasonable for us to pay for the difference in the cost of parts but not labour as this isn't our fault (we haven't paid anything yet). Fair enough?
I'm less familiar with dimmable CFLs and their required dimmers, but I can address the vent fan issues.
Are you sure the fan duct is open to the attic while the fan is not running? Some fans have integrated backdraft dampers that close automatically when the fan is turned off. Basically this is just a lightly sprung butterfly valve that is pushed open by air pressure generated by the fan. If your fan doesn't have one, you can add one.
Unless you want to fill your attic with grease and smoke, you should be venting that fan outside, in which case you'll need additional ductwork and a roof cap installed. Venting into the attic may be against code, too.
posted by jon1270 at 5:01 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Are you sure the fan duct is open to the attic while the fan is not running? Some fans have integrated backdraft dampers that close automatically when the fan is turned off. Basically this is just a lightly sprung butterfly valve that is pushed open by air pressure generated by the fan. If your fan doesn't have one, you can add one.
Unless you want to fill your attic with grease and smoke, you should be venting that fan outside, in which case you'll need additional ductwork and a roof cap installed. Venting into the attic may be against code, too.
posted by jon1270 at 5:01 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Venting anything into an attic is asking for trouble, you'll be sending moisture into a space where it can condense on the surfaces, you'll end up with mold, this is something you do.not.want.
If you didn't have a proposal that laid out the details of the job, then you're going to have to approach this gently. Without a written proposal, you've got little to stand on. Finesse him...
posted by tomswift at 5:06 AM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
If you didn't have a proposal that laid out the details of the job, then you're going to have to approach this gently. Without a written proposal, you've got little to stand on. Finesse him...
posted by tomswift at 5:06 AM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
Pappy: Buzzing dimmer switches are a common problem with downlights. He needs to make sure the switch is compatible with the lighting system, which could have a transformer attached to it that might be part of the problem too.
The mention of a transformer suggests that Pappy probably had an issue with low-voltage incandescents rather than fluorescent lighting, so his experience may not be entirely parallel... but then, it might be. Buzzing dimmers on LV incandescents are common for a couple of reasons. First of all, dimmers designed for use with low voltage lighting are more expensive -- perhaps $50 instead of $15 for the dimmer itself, so cheap homeowners and unscrupulous electricians often install the wrong type. Second, dimmers designed for LV have three terminals / leads and must be connected to three wires -- line voltage, the switched/dimmed wire that goes to the light fixture, and a neutral wire. Switches and dimmers designed for line voltage (i.e. not low voltage) lighting only have 2 terminals; they don't have a neutral connection. Thus retrofitting a LV dimmer where there used to be a basic line voltage dimmer or a simple switch can be problematic, because there may not even be a neutral wire present in the switch box to connect the LV dimmer to. Properly installing a LV dimmer in such a situation requires running new wire with an extra conductor to the box, which also adds to the expense.
That was a long explanation, but what I'm suggesting is that it could be that the wiring present in your walls won't accommodate the proper dimmer for your lights, and thus installing the right hardware may be more expensive than anticipated.
posted by jon1270 at 5:19 AM on August 24, 2011
The mention of a transformer suggests that Pappy probably had an issue with low-voltage incandescents rather than fluorescent lighting, so his experience may not be entirely parallel... but then, it might be. Buzzing dimmers on LV incandescents are common for a couple of reasons. First of all, dimmers designed for use with low voltage lighting are more expensive -- perhaps $50 instead of $15 for the dimmer itself, so cheap homeowners and unscrupulous electricians often install the wrong type. Second, dimmers designed for LV have three terminals / leads and must be connected to three wires -- line voltage, the switched/dimmed wire that goes to the light fixture, and a neutral wire. Switches and dimmers designed for line voltage (i.e. not low voltage) lighting only have 2 terminals; they don't have a neutral connection. Thus retrofitting a LV dimmer where there used to be a basic line voltage dimmer or a simple switch can be problematic, because there may not even be a neutral wire present in the switch box to connect the LV dimmer to. Properly installing a LV dimmer in such a situation requires running new wire with an extra conductor to the box, which also adds to the expense.
That was a long explanation, but what I'm suggesting is that it could be that the wiring present in your walls won't accommodate the proper dimmer for your lights, and thus installing the right hardware may be more expensive than anticipated.
posted by jon1270 at 5:19 AM on August 24, 2011
Response by poster: Are you sure the fan duct is open to the attic while the fan is not running?
Yes, I shone a torch through it from below and saw part of the roof.
Venting anything into an attic is asking for trouble
This seems to be pretty standard for houses in Australia, at least for older houses with tiled roofs in the very dry parts of the country. I'm going to look into getting some kind of duct arrangement going but that's not really a matter for the electrician.
Without a written proposal, you've got little to stand on.
Well, we had an email conversation where I specifically asked for a fan with draft prevention.
jon1270, thanks for the explanation of the dimmer situation and the link to the backdraft preventers. It looks like we may need one of those, in which case I can probably deal with it myself.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 5:38 AM on August 24, 2011
Yes, I shone a torch through it from below and saw part of the roof.
Venting anything into an attic is asking for trouble
This seems to be pretty standard for houses in Australia, at least for older houses with tiled roofs in the very dry parts of the country. I'm going to look into getting some kind of duct arrangement going but that's not really a matter for the electrician.
Without a written proposal, you've got little to stand on.
Well, we had an email conversation where I specifically asked for a fan with draft prevention.
jon1270, thanks for the explanation of the dimmer situation and the link to the backdraft preventers. It looks like we may need one of those, in which case I can probably deal with it myself.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 5:38 AM on August 24, 2011
Exhaust fans venting directly into the attic (or crawlspace, or wall) are against building code pretty much everywhere.
The fan should have ducting (preferably rigid, the flexible stuff really reduces air flow efficiency) from the fan through the roof to a roof vent. The ducting should be assembled with sheet metal screws and sealed with (code-approved, not generic) duct tape, then wrapped in fiberglass insulation to prevent condensation on the ducting.
It sounds like you're already unhappy with his work, and he's either cutting corners or doesn't know what he's doing...you should probably be getting additional quotes from other contractors and let them do the job right, and try to recover the cost from him of fixing his mess. I'm not sure I'd trust him to be cutting holes in my roof.
On preview, I see you're in Australia...I don't know the building codes there ;)
posted by jpeacock at 8:06 AM on August 24, 2011
The fan should have ducting (preferably rigid, the flexible stuff really reduces air flow efficiency) from the fan through the roof to a roof vent. The ducting should be assembled with sheet metal screws and sealed with (code-approved, not generic) duct tape, then wrapped in fiberglass insulation to prevent condensation on the ducting.
It sounds like you're already unhappy with his work, and he's either cutting corners or doesn't know what he's doing...you should probably be getting additional quotes from other contractors and let them do the job right, and try to recover the cost from him of fixing his mess. I'm not sure I'd trust him to be cutting holes in my roof.
On preview, I see you're in Australia...I don't know the building codes there ;)
posted by jpeacock at 8:06 AM on August 24, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by pappy at 4:56 AM on August 24, 2011