She's a Guess, I'm an Ask, help us communicate
August 17, 2011 9:20 AM Subscribe
My mother isn't happy - she has empty nest syndrome since I got married and my brother graduated. But she's handling this by being passive aggressive, and by criticising my husband. Help!
My dad died when my brother and I were in primary school and my mum has devoted her life to bringing us up. I'm now in my mid thirties and got married last year - this seems to have triggered an ongoing strop in my mum. I think she feels like I don't need her anymore but her reaction to that is to be passive aggressive and petulant towards me and my husband. She has spent the last couple of social occasions seething with rage for reasons unknown, I would like to fix this but I'm getting a bit tired of her being childish.
She's never got on particularly well with my husband - she expresses this as a disapproval of him working as a freelancer instead of getting a permanent position (despite the fact that he earns a better wage freelancing and she knows this). She also never misses an opportunity to bad mouth him to me for ridiculous reasons - for example, recently we went for a drink after a family walk, I bought a round of drinks, and she later complained to me that he hadn't offered to buy them. For that she's extrapolated that he's tightfisted (despite that fact that we have joint finances). For what it's worth he's the most generous person I know. It seems like she's deliberately looking for faults.
This seems to be a classic case of Ask versus Guess culture. She gets annoyed that I can't guess what I've supposedly done wrong or why she's upset (and gets annoyed with me for even asking), and I get annoyed about being given the silent treatment when I've got no idea why (it is generally an old thing she's been ruminating about rather than a recent slight). I suspect the underlying problem is that she's lonely and wants more time and attention from me, but I don't want to give her any more when she's acting like this, especially when all she wants to do is bitch about my husband.
So I guess my question is this: Can I get her to engage with me more constructively, and if so how? I've tried directly asking her what the problem is but inevitably it will be something minor my husband did years ago. This keeps coming up and I'd like to be able to deal with what the real issue might be. The silly thing is that I actually love spending time with her when she's in a good mood, and we're actually very close. It upsets me to fall out with her.
My dad died when my brother and I were in primary school and my mum has devoted her life to bringing us up. I'm now in my mid thirties and got married last year - this seems to have triggered an ongoing strop in my mum. I think she feels like I don't need her anymore but her reaction to that is to be passive aggressive and petulant towards me and my husband. She has spent the last couple of social occasions seething with rage for reasons unknown, I would like to fix this but I'm getting a bit tired of her being childish.
She's never got on particularly well with my husband - she expresses this as a disapproval of him working as a freelancer instead of getting a permanent position (despite the fact that he earns a better wage freelancing and she knows this). She also never misses an opportunity to bad mouth him to me for ridiculous reasons - for example, recently we went for a drink after a family walk, I bought a round of drinks, and she later complained to me that he hadn't offered to buy them. For that she's extrapolated that he's tightfisted (despite that fact that we have joint finances). For what it's worth he's the most generous person I know. It seems like she's deliberately looking for faults.
This seems to be a classic case of Ask versus Guess culture. She gets annoyed that I can't guess what I've supposedly done wrong or why she's upset (and gets annoyed with me for even asking), and I get annoyed about being given the silent treatment when I've got no idea why (it is generally an old thing she's been ruminating about rather than a recent slight). I suspect the underlying problem is that she's lonely and wants more time and attention from me, but I don't want to give her any more when she's acting like this, especially when all she wants to do is bitch about my husband.
So I guess my question is this: Can I get her to engage with me more constructively, and if so how? I've tried directly asking her what the problem is but inevitably it will be something minor my husband did years ago. This keeps coming up and I'd like to be able to deal with what the real issue might be. The silly thing is that I actually love spending time with her when she's in a good mood, and we're actually very close. It upsets me to fall out with her.
You can't fix her. It's got nothing to do with you even if it's being directed towards you. Since this is irrational behavior, there's no magic bullet here.
All you can do is calmly tell your mother that her criticism of your husband is out of bounds and not welcome and that if she continues to engage in it, you will withdraw from the conversation. Then, if she continues, follow up and withdraw.
It's not rude to demand respect, even if it's from your mother.
posted by inturnaround at 9:33 AM on August 17, 2011 [24 favorites]
All you can do is calmly tell your mother that her criticism of your husband is out of bounds and not welcome and that if she continues to engage in it, you will withdraw from the conversation. Then, if she continues, follow up and withdraw.
It's not rude to demand respect, even if it's from your mother.
posted by inturnaround at 9:33 AM on August 17, 2011 [24 favorites]
I would be as direct as possible--"Mom, love you dearly, but MY HUSBAND is off-limits. I won't listen to criticism, carping, snide remarks or veiled jabs. If I think you're saying something negative about him, I'll hang up or leave."
And make it stick. When my husband and I were first married, we made a deal that neither of us would complain about the other--no matter how small--to any 3rd party. I don't dish about him. No discussions of cute but annoying habits. No smart-alec remarks about his love of old cars, 70s soul music or bad candy. Not even for fun.
I wouldn't soft pedal this to Mom. She knows what she's doing--she wants to be on your side against him, which is sort of old school wifey stuff, but it's toxic. Don't hold little girl-friend secrets from him or in-jokes. He and you are the unit.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:35 AM on August 17, 2011 [20 favorites]
And make it stick. When my husband and I were first married, we made a deal that neither of us would complain about the other--no matter how small--to any 3rd party. I don't dish about him. No discussions of cute but annoying habits. No smart-alec remarks about his love of old cars, 70s soul music or bad candy. Not even for fun.
I wouldn't soft pedal this to Mom. She knows what she's doing--she wants to be on your side against him, which is sort of old school wifey stuff, but it's toxic. Don't hold little girl-friend secrets from him or in-jokes. He and you are the unit.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:35 AM on August 17, 2011 [20 favorites]
You need not to reward or feed into her less than desireable behaviors. Don't engage her when she starts picking on your husband or yourself.
Have a neutral phrase ready for when she starts the negative talk. Something like, "I'm sorry you think that." or "If you say so." It doesn't have to be an actual response and it's fine/better if it's a bit off. DO NOT actually rise to the bait of her complaint - the point is to diffuse and move on. If her behavior really warrants it, you may need to say that she seems like she's not happy to see you, so you'll be going, love you, talk to you soon.
You may find it works to say something along the lines of "You will always be my mom, but X is my husband. When you criticize him, you're criticizing me, too."
posted by noxetlux at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Have a neutral phrase ready for when she starts the negative talk. Something like, "I'm sorry you think that." or "If you say so." It doesn't have to be an actual response and it's fine/better if it's a bit off. DO NOT actually rise to the bait of her complaint - the point is to diffuse and move on. If her behavior really warrants it, you may need to say that she seems like she's not happy to see you, so you'll be going, love you, talk to you soon.
You may find it works to say something along the lines of "You will always be my mom, but X is my husband. When you criticize him, you're criticizing me, too."
posted by noxetlux at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
You tell her what you've said here. It's time for a loving but direct approach. You might also ask her how she would feel if she spent time with someone who constantly criticized someone she loves - would she stand for that? Would she want to be around that person?
posted by DrGirlfriend at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by DrGirlfriend at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I agree with the comments that you should be straight with your mother that you will not tolerate nasty comments about your husband.
My mother-in-law was once a pleasant women. She turned nasty when we moved away. I can only handle her in small doses - phone calls once every two months. My husband handles her more often. We anticipate the call will contain some type of criticism, and have learned over time to ignore it. Mr. BuffaloChickenWing contacts her on a somewhat routine basis just because she is his mother - basically out of respect because she is an "elder".
posted by BuffaloChickenWing at 9:41 AM on August 17, 2011
My mother-in-law was once a pleasant women. She turned nasty when we moved away. I can only handle her in small doses - phone calls once every two months. My husband handles her more often. We anticipate the call will contain some type of criticism, and have learned over time to ignore it. Mr. BuffaloChickenWing contacts her on a somewhat routine basis just because she is his mother - basically out of respect because she is an "elder".
posted by BuffaloChickenWing at 9:41 AM on August 17, 2011
Can I get her to engage with me more constructively, and if so how?
You could be speaking about my Mom. The answer is, unfortunately, no.
All you can do is what others have already talked about: specifically illustrate the consequences to her bad behavior.
I've been you. I've tried VERY hard to develop a better relationship with my Mom and I'm rewarded with negativity and criticism every chance she gets. That extends to my wife, my wife's family, my son, how I'm raising my son, etc. The only thing that really drove home that I'm serious about not putting up with it any more is a 6 month stretch where I didn't call her after a particularly epic performance, at which point she called me pretending nothing had happened, at all. She's undeniably a bit better now, but it's still bad.
This part:
It upsets me to fall out with her.
...is a sign that you still care for her, and it's probably the only remaining lever she has to control you. Sucks that you're being cornered into caring about your Mom's opinion less (if at all), but that's the situation she's forcing you into.
You're an adult now, and you get to choose what you let in to your life. Your mother isn't obligated to access.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 9:52 AM on August 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
You could be speaking about my Mom. The answer is, unfortunately, no.
All you can do is what others have already talked about: specifically illustrate the consequences to her bad behavior.
I've been you. I've tried VERY hard to develop a better relationship with my Mom and I'm rewarded with negativity and criticism every chance she gets. That extends to my wife, my wife's family, my son, how I'm raising my son, etc. The only thing that really drove home that I'm serious about not putting up with it any more is a 6 month stretch where I didn't call her after a particularly epic performance, at which point she called me pretending nothing had happened, at all. She's undeniably a bit better now, but it's still bad.
This part:
It upsets me to fall out with her.
...is a sign that you still care for her, and it's probably the only remaining lever she has to control you. Sucks that you're being cornered into caring about your Mom's opinion less (if at all), but that's the situation she's forcing you into.
You're an adult now, and you get to choose what you let in to your life. Your mother isn't obligated to access.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 9:52 AM on August 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
You could also be flat out about it and address her behavior only:
"Being nasty doesn't make me want to spend time with you."
posted by medea42 at 10:14 AM on August 17, 2011 [13 favorites]
"Being nasty doesn't make me want to spend time with you."
posted by medea42 at 10:14 AM on August 17, 2011 [13 favorites]
I think the thing to do is wait till the next time your mom does something like this. I suspect that if you bring it up independently, she'll react extremely defensively and turn it around so that you are attacking her, or making things up, or that you've always been so damn sensitive, etc. This is a total no-win situation.
So wait till she Does It. Then as calmly and as neutrally as possible (no snippiness, no heavy sighing, no eye-rolling), look her in the eye and make a simple statement of fact: "mum, when you say such things, you drive me away from you. I am asking you to stop criticizing my husband." That's it. No engaging in the substance of the criticism -- "he's a tightwad" "no, he's not" -- because that will just be scratching her itch. You need to simply catch the behavior in its moment and say clearly what the consequence is of such behavior.
She'll probably still want to drag you into a fight to distract the topic from her bad behavior and its consequences -- "So now you're attacking me! After all I've done for you!" -- but you will have to stay as calm and as focused as you can. In fact, counter-intuitive as it seems, actively try to cultivate a sense of warmth toward her in this moment. Keep connected with her, AND continue to stay on topic: "making hurtful remarks about my husband will drive me away. You're my mother and I love you, which is why I would like you to stop saying them so that I am not driven away."
posted by scody at 10:22 AM on August 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
So wait till she Does It. Then as calmly and as neutrally as possible (no snippiness, no heavy sighing, no eye-rolling), look her in the eye and make a simple statement of fact: "mum, when you say such things, you drive me away from you. I am asking you to stop criticizing my husband." That's it. No engaging in the substance of the criticism -- "he's a tightwad" "no, he's not" -- because that will just be scratching her itch. You need to simply catch the behavior in its moment and say clearly what the consequence is of such behavior.
She'll probably still want to drag you into a fight to distract the topic from her bad behavior and its consequences -- "So now you're attacking me! After all I've done for you!" -- but you will have to stay as calm and as focused as you can. In fact, counter-intuitive as it seems, actively try to cultivate a sense of warmth toward her in this moment. Keep connected with her, AND continue to stay on topic: "making hurtful remarks about my husband will drive me away. You're my mother and I love you, which is why I would like you to stop saying them so that I am not driven away."
posted by scody at 10:22 AM on August 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
You can't fix her, but you can talk to her about her actions, and you can suggest she find new hobbies. You probably don't want to be so direct as to ask if she has any hobbies now, but you can ask her about her past interests or mention classes or events that might be up her ally. Maybe she won't take them up, but at least you're showing an interest in her life, and taking focus off of your husband.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:30 AM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by filthy light thief at 10:30 AM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've made comments to this effect before, but it bears repeating. No offense intended toward your mom, but I treat difficult people like I treat my dog. I affirm behaviors that are desirable, and I do not reward behaviors that are problematic.
Your mom does what she does in part because it works. It registers her disapproval, it puts everyone on edge, and it creates a social dynamic that she subtly controls. You need to give her reasons to change her behavior.
It's certainly a good idea to bring this up (during a normal time, not when she's being passive-aggressive) and communicate how it makes you feel and what it's doing to your relationship. If that doesn't work, then the dog-style conditioning begins. When she does or says something mean, she gets no reward for it. Whether the response is silence, a change of subject, or withdrawal, you adamantly refuse to engage with the dynamic she is trying to set up. If she pushes too hard, take your leave and tell her, plainly and without emotion, why you're disengaging. It takes time, and you have to stick to your guns.
I think people often learn better from confronting actual consequences than they do from mere discussion. Sometimes the issue is more how people behave than what's going on in the unknowable depths of their psyches.
Caveat: I do not have an extremely well-trained dog, just a well-adapted one.
posted by itstheclamsname at 10:43 AM on August 17, 2011 [8 favorites]
Your mom does what she does in part because it works. It registers her disapproval, it puts everyone on edge, and it creates a social dynamic that she subtly controls. You need to give her reasons to change her behavior.
It's certainly a good idea to bring this up (during a normal time, not when she's being passive-aggressive) and communicate how it makes you feel and what it's doing to your relationship. If that doesn't work, then the dog-style conditioning begins. When she does or says something mean, she gets no reward for it. Whether the response is silence, a change of subject, or withdrawal, you adamantly refuse to engage with the dynamic she is trying to set up. If she pushes too hard, take your leave and tell her, plainly and without emotion, why you're disengaging. It takes time, and you have to stick to your guns.
I think people often learn better from confronting actual consequences than they do from mere discussion. Sometimes the issue is more how people behave than what's going on in the unknowable depths of their psyches.
Caveat: I do not have an extremely well-trained dog, just a well-adapted one.
posted by itstheclamsname at 10:43 AM on August 17, 2011 [8 favorites]
I went through this when my mom empty nested. I didn't talk to my mother for a year or two. My girlfriend is going through this right now, and they're not really talking at all. It's a shame, but it's her choice, not yours. You have a duty to yourself to maintain your sanity and stress levels -- family should help relieve those things, not contribute to problems with them.
posted by SpecialK at 10:46 AM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by SpecialK at 10:46 AM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here is what works for me, because my mom is just a petulant person who holds grudges as a hobby and whose unspoken, unrealistic expectations and subsequent behaviour when I fail to meet them makes it very clear that I am not behaving as she wishes her daughter would. Previous bad relationships made her suspicious of anyone I'd choose too. It was a recipe for failure that I realize it's my responsibility to overcome. To your parent, you don't get to go from being their kid to another adult. My mom loves crowing "You'll always be MY BABY" and "I'm your mother and I can do what I want".
And, my advice runs contrary to what most people say, because I've found that the parent/child relationship is a type of dynamic where you can't treat the other party like a normal human being.
Forget the real issues, really, because, this is usually what it is with my mom too (my empathies!):
I suspect the underlying problem is that she's lonely and wants more time and attention from me, but I don't want to give her any more when she's acting like this, especially when all she wants to do is bitch about my husband.
I've found that if she doesn't have the opportunity to wallow, the time to dwell, it all pretty much goes away.
I have learned to pro-actively work the relationship so that my doesn't have the opportunity to fall into her patterns (or me into mine), and we have ways of doing it that I don't feel like I'm always caving. My family has learned to control the conversation. We actually, and it's horrible that we had to, made a plan to keep things on good terms. I just don't get an easy mom in this life, that's all. My husband is great at this, because he manages people at work - and I worked in sales for years. We realized we needed to use positive reinforcement, and ignore bad behaviour and set a framework.
First: Operation Wonderful Husband. Early on, my mom gave me an emergency credit card in case I ever need to leave him. I keep offering it back - it's been over thirteen happy years now. I never, ever, every complain to her about him. Not anything other than one minor specific thing, so we can "bond" as she likes to, by commiseration - but it's always about, say, him leaving his shoes in the doorway. "Oh, your father's like that too." But she's not the person to share any frustrations about our marital relationship with (and she doesn't get to know about finances either). She now think's he's just great - but still won't take the card back.
Second: She doesn't get to know anything bad that's going on, unless it's a dire emergency that we actually need her help with. Which is never. She'll stew. Yes, we'll tell her when our in-laws aren't healthy, but I don't tell her that it takes me hours and hours to take care of their household due to their many pets and age. It makes her think poorly of them, and rush to defend me when I don't need defending. It also makes her feel unequal to them, though when I clean rotting vegetables out of her fridge drawers, I'm somehow criticizing rather than helping (harrumph). If we have a home repair, we tell her after it's done. She worries more about our roof leaks then we do. Cripes.
Third: We accept offers of help that make her feel good, but we don't ask for money. There are always strings, but just as I learned in sales that it makes people feel great to give gifts and have them graciously accepted, we graciously accept gifts in the spirit intended, and show actual gratitude. She buys our daughter's clothing and pays for camp. She covered part of our rental car for our vacation. They take us out to dinner. It's wrong to steal joy from people, and by giving her what she wants in this way, she feels the way she wants to feel: generous. She gets to boast to her friends about what she gave us. She needs her ego to be fed, since she doesn't have us around to show off frequently.
Fourth: Proactively, we call her first. I make sure to call her and top her up like a $20 phone card. $5 here, $10 there - leaving messages on her machine too, which gives the impression I'm more attentive than I really am. If not, resentment seeps in, and this plan keeps her from seething. It's tempting to withdraw as a form of control, but really, by your calling when you're in the mood, feeling confident and at a good time to talk, you have a better chance of having a good conversation that's actually enjoyable. And if you start the call by saying "I just have a minute before I have to run out...", you can be the one to end the call too. And if you catch her at a bad time, oh well - you did your part!
Fifth: A subset of Operation Wonderful Husband: When we're home, my husband answers the phone when we expect her calls, and he chats with her about fun, nice things. He asks her questions about her health, and her circle of friends ("How's that Rosebud? Still playing the kazoo at your ladies' lunches?") and he tells her whatever good news he has about his job so that she can have stuff to brag about and cuts off any speculative worries about finances. Now she thinks he's nicer to her than I am. And he is, because he's made it his job.
Then, he passes the phone to our daughter, who will babble happily. Then, when it's my turn, there's not much left for her to say or complain about. She's done. She's full of our family, and she's been topped up. Then, my conversation with her is minimal, and there's no time to get into anything else, really. Especially not politics!
But, importantly in all this, we get to control the conversation. Within a very short time, my mom was sated in a way that lasts between visits. We've only had a few flare-ups, and that's when I'm too tired to play the game.
And yes, on preview, we treat my mom like a beloved pet and this is the practical plan we use for exactly everything else that itstheclamsname said. Sorry for the novel, really, but this is one thing I feel like I'm good at.
posted by peagood at 11:01 AM on August 17, 2011 [46 favorites]
And, my advice runs contrary to what most people say, because I've found that the parent/child relationship is a type of dynamic where you can't treat the other party like a normal human being.
Forget the real issues, really, because, this is usually what it is with my mom too (my empathies!):
I suspect the underlying problem is that she's lonely and wants more time and attention from me, but I don't want to give her any more when she's acting like this, especially when all she wants to do is bitch about my husband.
I've found that if she doesn't have the opportunity to wallow, the time to dwell, it all pretty much goes away.
I have learned to pro-actively work the relationship so that my doesn't have the opportunity to fall into her patterns (or me into mine), and we have ways of doing it that I don't feel like I'm always caving. My family has learned to control the conversation. We actually, and it's horrible that we had to, made a plan to keep things on good terms. I just don't get an easy mom in this life, that's all. My husband is great at this, because he manages people at work - and I worked in sales for years. We realized we needed to use positive reinforcement, and ignore bad behaviour and set a framework.
First: Operation Wonderful Husband. Early on, my mom gave me an emergency credit card in case I ever need to leave him. I keep offering it back - it's been over thirteen happy years now. I never, ever, every complain to her about him. Not anything other than one minor specific thing, so we can "bond" as she likes to, by commiseration - but it's always about, say, him leaving his shoes in the doorway. "Oh, your father's like that too." But she's not the person to share any frustrations about our marital relationship with (and she doesn't get to know about finances either). She now think's he's just great - but still won't take the card back.
Second: She doesn't get to know anything bad that's going on, unless it's a dire emergency that we actually need her help with. Which is never. She'll stew. Yes, we'll tell her when our in-laws aren't healthy, but I don't tell her that it takes me hours and hours to take care of their household due to their many pets and age. It makes her think poorly of them, and rush to defend me when I don't need defending. It also makes her feel unequal to them, though when I clean rotting vegetables out of her fridge drawers, I'm somehow criticizing rather than helping (harrumph). If we have a home repair, we tell her after it's done. She worries more about our roof leaks then we do. Cripes.
Third: We accept offers of help that make her feel good, but we don't ask for money. There are always strings, but just as I learned in sales that it makes people feel great to give gifts and have them graciously accepted, we graciously accept gifts in the spirit intended, and show actual gratitude. She buys our daughter's clothing and pays for camp. She covered part of our rental car for our vacation. They take us out to dinner. It's wrong to steal joy from people, and by giving her what she wants in this way, she feels the way she wants to feel: generous. She gets to boast to her friends about what she gave us. She needs her ego to be fed, since she doesn't have us around to show off frequently.
Fourth: Proactively, we call her first. I make sure to call her and top her up like a $20 phone card. $5 here, $10 there - leaving messages on her machine too, which gives the impression I'm more attentive than I really am. If not, resentment seeps in, and this plan keeps her from seething. It's tempting to withdraw as a form of control, but really, by your calling when you're in the mood, feeling confident and at a good time to talk, you have a better chance of having a good conversation that's actually enjoyable. And if you start the call by saying "I just have a minute before I have to run out...", you can be the one to end the call too. And if you catch her at a bad time, oh well - you did your part!
Fifth: A subset of Operation Wonderful Husband: When we're home, my husband answers the phone when we expect her calls, and he chats with her about fun, nice things. He asks her questions about her health, and her circle of friends ("How's that Rosebud? Still playing the kazoo at your ladies' lunches?") and he tells her whatever good news he has about his job so that she can have stuff to brag about and cuts off any speculative worries about finances. Now she thinks he's nicer to her than I am. And he is, because he's made it his job.
Then, he passes the phone to our daughter, who will babble happily. Then, when it's my turn, there's not much left for her to say or complain about. She's done. She's full of our family, and she's been topped up. Then, my conversation with her is minimal, and there's no time to get into anything else, really. Especially not politics!
But, importantly in all this, we get to control the conversation. Within a very short time, my mom was sated in a way that lasts between visits. We've only had a few flare-ups, and that's when I'm too tired to play the game.
And yes, on preview, we treat my mom like a beloved pet and this is the practical plan we use for exactly everything else that itstheclamsname said. Sorry for the novel, really, but this is one thing I feel like I'm good at.
posted by peagood at 11:01 AM on August 17, 2011 [46 favorites]
I like the short, to the point script that medea42 gave you to use - A LOT.
Hopefully, it might spark a loving conversation where you can address your concern that she is being judgmental and making herself miserable because of the empty nest syndrom, or something like it.
It would be nice if you could have a nuanced conversation with her about the Cause, not the umpteen million symptoms. Maybe frame it to her just like that?
posted by jbenben at 11:02 AM on August 17, 2011
Hopefully, it might spark a loving conversation where you can address your concern that she is being judgmental and making herself miserable because of the empty nest syndrom, or something like it.
It would be nice if you could have a nuanced conversation with her about the Cause, not the umpteen million symptoms. Maybe frame it to her just like that?
posted by jbenben at 11:02 AM on August 17, 2011
Keep in mind that the reason your mom hates your husband is because He Stole Her Baby! She's going to hate your husband no matter what he does-- even if he was a rich doctor millionaire-- because He Stole Her Baby. My mom is like this and god help me if I ever actually get married (unlikely) because she brats it up about everyone I've ever dated, just like this. "He didn't open the door for us" was a favorite with the last one.
What you're supposed to guess is that she wants you to leave your husband and move back home. Duh! Since you can't do that, you should probably be doing what peagood said. Which reminds me:
"I've found that the parent/child relationship is a type of dynamic where you can't treat the other party like a normal human being."
I would favorite that quote a million times if I could.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:26 AM on August 17, 2011
What you're supposed to guess is that she wants you to leave your husband and move back home. Duh! Since you can't do that, you should probably be doing what peagood said. Which reminds me:
"I've found that the parent/child relationship is a type of dynamic where you can't treat the other party like a normal human being."
I would favorite that quote a million times if I could.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:26 AM on August 17, 2011
I thought of one more thing that we do, because I just got off the phone with my mom: We give her projects. They make her feel connected when we're not around, and provide direction and fodder for nice things to talk about in the future (for both of us). If she knows she can count an another conversation soon, she doesn't feel abandoned in the meantime.
And, for the record, I don't dislike my mom, I dislike the attitude she cultivates in me in response to her personality type. She thinks she's fine. I can't "fix" another human being. We need to create our own Venn Diagram as adults, and this is what I've spent a dozen years doing now.
So this works too: "Hey mom - littlestgood needs pajamas, if you see anything cute, would you let me know?" and "I haven't had that beef soup in ages - would you write down the recipe for me the next time I come? Oh? You'll make a batch too? Great!" and "Would you mind asking Aunt Lou what's fun to do around where her daughter lives? We're thinking of taking a day trip next time we're in town." and "If you make a pile of clothing to donate or consign, I'll take it away for you on our next trip - we're bringing a new pile of littlestgood's stuff and will be switching out what we keep at your house."
And, after reading all of the advice above (again), I just wanted to add my viewpoint, based on personal experience, as well as interactions with so many older people and their children in my previous employment (dealing with personal effects from estates and downsizing) (in my forties, as a reference point): In years past, to my understanding, parents and children never did meet as equals. This having conversations about feelings? Feh. Expecting a parent to be accountable for behaviour? It didn't happen with their own parents; and depending on their ages, they likely don't expect it to happen with their children. This is new. I'm not saying all previous generations are/were unenlightened as to having mutually respectful relationships with their adult children, but where I come from, everyone is flawed and kids only get to judge their parents in conversation with their peers and sympathizers. In real life, you do your duty, which is trying to be the person they think they raised, while gently training them to be tolerable old people whose butt you may have to wipe some day.
I liken dealing with my mother to banging my head against a marshmallow (it's a nicer analogy than a padded cell). You think you're getting somewhere, but there's still plenty of resistance and your head's just going to bounce back. I'm not looking for my mom to have an "A-ha! Moment" - I'm just looking for a soft place to rest my head.
posted by peagood at 12:00 PM on August 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
And, for the record, I don't dislike my mom, I dislike the attitude she cultivates in me in response to her personality type. She thinks she's fine. I can't "fix" another human being. We need to create our own Venn Diagram as adults, and this is what I've spent a dozen years doing now.
So this works too: "Hey mom - littlestgood needs pajamas, if you see anything cute, would you let me know?" and "I haven't had that beef soup in ages - would you write down the recipe for me the next time I come? Oh? You'll make a batch too? Great!" and "Would you mind asking Aunt Lou what's fun to do around where her daughter lives? We're thinking of taking a day trip next time we're in town." and "If you make a pile of clothing to donate or consign, I'll take it away for you on our next trip - we're bringing a new pile of littlestgood's stuff and will be switching out what we keep at your house."
And, after reading all of the advice above (again), I just wanted to add my viewpoint, based on personal experience, as well as interactions with so many older people and their children in my previous employment (dealing with personal effects from estates and downsizing) (in my forties, as a reference point): In years past, to my understanding, parents and children never did meet as equals. This having conversations about feelings? Feh. Expecting a parent to be accountable for behaviour? It didn't happen with their own parents; and depending on their ages, they likely don't expect it to happen with their children. This is new. I'm not saying all previous generations are/were unenlightened as to having mutually respectful relationships with their adult children, but where I come from, everyone is flawed and kids only get to judge their parents in conversation with their peers and sympathizers. In real life, you do your duty, which is trying to be the person they think they raised, while gently training them to be tolerable old people whose butt you may have to wipe some day.
I liken dealing with my mother to banging my head against a marshmallow (it's a nicer analogy than a padded cell). You think you're getting somewhere, but there's still plenty of resistance and your head's just going to bounce back. I'm not looking for my mom to have an "A-ha! Moment" - I'm just looking for a soft place to rest my head.
posted by peagood at 12:00 PM on August 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
Hah! I just thought of one last technique - my husband and I try not to let her get either of us alone in room. The questions she's tried to slip in! The first time she asked my husband while I washed my hands before dinner if I was crabby because I was "on my period" was the last time.
posted by peagood at 12:04 PM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by peagood at 12:04 PM on August 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'd say you need to have an open talk with her. Be sure to use non-confrontational and non-accusatory language. Listen to what she has to say before responding. If it's something that can be remedied, do what you can.
If she refuses your efforts, then it's time to cut down your contact with her. This will either make her appreciate the time she has with you, or it will cause her to stop talking to you. Either solution is preferable to her current conduct.
posted by reenum at 2:50 PM on August 17, 2011
If she refuses your efforts, then it's time to cut down your contact with her. This will either make her appreciate the time she has with you, or it will cause her to stop talking to you. Either solution is preferable to her current conduct.
posted by reenum at 2:50 PM on August 17, 2011
I don't think you should parent your parent like some advice gives above. You should not have to work 110% to make your mom's life "happy" so she doesn't feel the hurt that she's causing you and may have caused all these years. Instead, you need to treat her like a person who's being bad to you. Limit contact with her. Be silent, do not react when she starts criticizing, and if she doesn't stop, then leave the situation.
She's an adult. Therefore, she needs to deal with the consequences of her nasty behavior. Just because she's your mom doesn't mean you need to take her abuse.
posted by minx at 6:09 PM on August 17, 2011
She's an adult. Therefore, she needs to deal with the consequences of her nasty behavior. Just because she's your mom doesn't mean you need to take her abuse.
posted by minx at 6:09 PM on August 17, 2011
It doesn't help to diagnose her as passive aggressive. Ask her to express her concerns about your husband, and really listen as patiently as you can. Thank her for her genuine caring, and tell her that you understood her concerns, but that you are happy with your husband, and that it hurts you when she is critical of him, and it feels like she's critical a lot. Tell her you feel torn, and do not want to have to choose between her and him.
Once you've given her the chance to say her piece, and told her how you feel, if she is unreasonably critical, end the interaction. "He's stingy." Mom, I have to get off the phone now; I'll talk to you next week. Love you, Bye "He should have a better job." Mom, I know you worry about me, but Husb is doing fine as far as I'm concerned. "Well, he''s a deadbeat" I'm going to go make dinner now. Love you, Bye.
Every time she's nice about him/to him, give her a positive reinforcement, like walking over and giving her a little hug, or a pat on the arm. Words aren't your friend here, actionsare, and they're powerful.
She probably is lonely and at loose ends. Help her get involved in new activities, so she has a focus for her energy.
posted by theora55 at 6:11 PM on August 17, 2011
Once you've given her the chance to say her piece, and told her how you feel, if she is unreasonably critical, end the interaction. "He's stingy." Mom, I have to get off the phone now; I'll talk to you next week. Love you, Bye "He should have a better job." Mom, I know you worry about me, but Husb is doing fine as far as I'm concerned. "Well, he''s a deadbeat" I'm going to go make dinner now. Love you, Bye.
Every time she's nice about him/to him, give her a positive reinforcement, like walking over and giving her a little hug, or a pat on the arm. Words aren't your friend here, actionsare, and they're powerful.
She probably is lonely and at loose ends. Help her get involved in new activities, so she has a focus for her energy.
posted by theora55 at 6:11 PM on August 17, 2011
I would be as direct as possible--"Mom, love you dearly, but MY HUSBAND is off-limits. I won't listen to criticism, carping, snide remarks or veiled jabs. If I think you're saying something negative about him, I'll hang up or leave."
This, this, this, this, this. I had a similar problem about ten years ago when my husband apparently deeply offended my mother simply by saying that he was an atheist. Not by insulting her religious beliefs--he has always treated her with great respect--but simply by failing to share them.
I used wording eerily similar to that which Ideefixe suggests above. The criticism stopped completely, and their relationship has really improved greatly in the meantime. To be fair, my mother was under a lot of stress at the time--my brother had just graduated from college and my (cheating asshole) father had filed for divorce. I think she realized that she was being unfair to us and understood that if she didn't change the way she thought about Dr. Tully Monster and my marriage, she'd lose something extremely important.
posted by tully_monster at 6:36 PM on August 17, 2011
This, this, this, this, this. I had a similar problem about ten years ago when my husband apparently deeply offended my mother simply by saying that he was an atheist. Not by insulting her religious beliefs--he has always treated her with great respect--but simply by failing to share them.
I used wording eerily similar to that which Ideefixe suggests above. The criticism stopped completely, and their relationship has really improved greatly in the meantime. To be fair, my mother was under a lot of stress at the time--my brother had just graduated from college and my (cheating asshole) father had filed for divorce. I think she realized that she was being unfair to us and understood that if she didn't change the way she thought about Dr. Tully Monster and my marriage, she'd lose something extremely important.
posted by tully_monster at 6:36 PM on August 17, 2011
Agree with both the "direct confrontation" and "acknowledge but don't validate" approaches given in the responses here. Your choice of which would depend on your and her particular dynamic, but both of those approaches denies her the reward of thinking she has some leverage in the matter at hand.
Have a neutral phrase ready for when she starts the negative talk. Something like, "I'm sorry you think that." or "If you say so."
My favorite is "Think so?" spoken with a tone that implies polite dismissal, not genuine interest in the answer.
posted by Rykey at 8:46 AM on August 18, 2011
Have a neutral phrase ready for when she starts the negative talk. Something like, "I'm sorry you think that." or "If you say so."
My favorite is "Think so?" spoken with a tone that implies polite dismissal, not genuine interest in the answer.
posted by Rykey at 8:46 AM on August 18, 2011
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posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:31 AM on August 17, 2011 [5 favorites]