How do people find Walter White sympathetic? Seriously, how? The man raped his wife.

August 2, 2011 5:35 PM

Do you find Walter White sympathetic?

Ok, read this piece by Chuck Klosterman - So I'm thinking this may be the key to why my boyfriend and several other friends find Breaking Bad so compelling. Are other people seeing this show as a fundamentally good man's fall into evil?

When I watched the first season and a half of BB, I saw a fundamentally selfish, cold, proud and unhinged man fall into evil.

I think what sealed my contempt for WW was when he early on turned down that legitimate, high paying job from his friend. It was so clear to me then that his motives have nothing to do with providing security for his family, and that he's perfectly comfortable with the questions that will be asked of his wife by the authorities about huge and unexplained sums of money after he's dead and no longer accountable.

Oh, wait. No, that's not when my contempt was sealed. It was when HE RAPED HIS WIFE IN ONE OF THE FIRST EPISODES. Seriously, I'm seething with rage at the suggestion that he's a fundamentally likable character EVER.

Also, my sample size of women who have watched this show is one (me). Whereas my sample size of men is bigger, and they all seem to enjoy it, and admit to feeling guilty pleasure in rooting for Walter, as well as acknowledge that they know it's crazy, but that they're annoyed with Skyler for standing in his way. Sooo... I hope I don't open some can of worms where I'm accused of accusing men of being rapist-sympathizers, but I'm wondering if there's a gender divide here, where men were less horrified by that than I was. Or hey, maybe other women were less horrified than I was, too. Always a possibility.

Can you: 1. explain to me why the man is likable despite rape and murder, at least the former of which occurs EARLY? 2. State your gender?

Example: 1. He's totally repugnant from the first minute. 2. Female.

Disclaimer: I threw my hands up in disgust and stopped watching this show less than halfway through the second season. Anything past then, I just don't know about, but I can't imagine things get better.

posted by namesarehard to Media & Arts (13 answers total)

I didn't really care about him either way. Didn't pick up the whole "rape" vibe that you did. Still, because I didn't find WW compelling as a character I found the series incredibly slow and plodding and gave up after the first season.
posted by 2bucksplus at 5:44 PM on August 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

FWIW, I gave the show a try at the start of the third season and couldn't stay with it because I couldn't connect with Walt.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:47 PM on August 2, 2011

My wife didn't like the show at first. She saw 1 random episode when the first season premiered and didn't watch it again because something about it bugged her. She decided to try it again when season 4 started because I was excited about it and she fell in love.

Yeah, going back through it, I am struck by walter's seemingly hypocritical personality. He is so dedicated to his wife and family that he is willing to do anything to protect and provide for them. We just rewatched the 3rd season's episode titled "the fly" and he goes into detail about the perfect moment when he had a chance to save his marriage. I think it's the 8th or 9th episode. I would definitely suggest watching it again (if you have seen up to this season) as it's a really good look into his character's psyche. hand he is strongly family

Both my wife and I are torn by him. He is a very complex character, and I really appreciate AMC for taking a chance on it, it is some of the better tv on.
posted by TheBones at 5:52 PM on August 2, 2011

I'm female and I watched the first season and loved it... I definitely don't remember Walt raping (!) Skylar - I mean, I'm sure I know what scene you're talking about, but I didn't interpret it / don't remember it that way at all. I find him a very sympathetic character and I think the show's a lot of fun - the idea isn't that he's selling meth against his will and for a lack of other options... it's that he "broke bad" on a desperate whim and having done so discovers that he's capable of things he never dreamed. And excited by that. And I find it exciting to watch! As for not taking the friend's job offer, I can entirely understand not taking a pity job from your now-spectacularly-wealthy former partner. I'm not saying it's right - none of it is! it's fantastically wrong, all of it! - but I get it on an emotional level.
posted by moxiedoll at 5:58 PM on August 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Male here, but I think I can speak for the missus in saying that we both enjoy it.

[MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD]

When Walter went in to cook for Jesse, he was under the impression that he was dying. He was regularly making calculations of how much longer he would have to work in order to set the family up. True about the rape/attempted rape scene, but if you recall, it was his response to seeing a person killed for the first time, and not being able to tell his wife for her own safety. Not an easy position to be in, and while it was rough to watch, I can see that being someone's reaction to such extreme emotion.

At this point, Walter has completely lost his way and is just looking to keep himself from getting killed. His compass has completely gone astray, and he's essentially floundering to get through the next day. He's realized that "quitting" is not really an option, so he's doing what he can with the situation he himself created.
posted by Gilbert at 6:02 PM on August 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I think the key is that White's descent in to "evil" actually starts long before the first episode = remember that the show starts with a man experiencing a decline both in his work life and in his home life. There is still a lot of his backstory unknown, and I imagine that much of it contributes to the shitty behavior he exhibits in Season 1 (just as Season 1 contributes to later behavior). I think it's pretty clear that getting cancer is a big straw that "broke" the camel's back, or really an excuse to indulge in the sort of badness that he had been internally harboring for awhile.

I also find it fascinating that the other main character in the show - Pinkman, who starts out much more "bad" than White - fits a much more traditional "corrupted by Satan" story than White does.

But I "love" me a good anti-hero (if that anti-hero is fictional), and Walter is definitely that. I can find shows enjoyable without admiring or sympathizing with their main character. I actually disliked the pilot episode a lot before I realized that we weren't supposed to find White sympathetic, and that over time the writers would gradually lead those who do down the path of defending someone that they would usually call a monster.

(Female)
posted by muddgirl at 6:04 PM on August 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: Guys, if I posted the following on human-relations:

"I don't know what happened last night, but my husband came home, pushed me against the fridge and ripped off my underwear even though I was in a face mask and not in the mood and protesting, and proceeded to have sex with me from behind. He hit my head against the fridge, too. I don't know what to do? Was I raped? He's always been such a good husband, and it seems like he's really going through something hard. Maybe I should forgive him? Oh yeah, and our adolescent son walked in on this... What should I do?"

I would be deluged with "DTMF Rapist A"s so fast my computer would burst into flames.

Don't put rape in quotes, ya'll. It was rape.
posted by namesarehard at 6:04 PM on August 2, 2011

Lots of scare quotes because I don't believe in evil, in monsters, or in Satan.
posted by muddgirl at 6:05 PM on August 2, 2011

Whoa, namesarehard, sorry. I have no memory of that scene! That said, for me, liking a show or feeling sympathy or understanding for characters isn't dependent upon them being good people. Or even not bad people. I love Tony Soprano and Al Swearengen and Darth Vader, too. But you certainly don't have to.
posted by moxiedoll at 6:11 PM on August 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

The one instance of that is the part you find particularly objectionable in amidst the implied ruination of thousands of lives due to drugs and the showing of dozens of death due to murder? That's interesting.

It's not that his actions are sympathetic as a real human. Lots of what characters on the show do is deplorable. This is just one more thing. Get it right in the context of a fictional show. He's a character study in ridiculously unrealistic situations. He's thrown into horrible situations and responds - arguably at an instinctual level. For the first couple seasons he is literally dying. He is regularly put at his breaking point (breaking bad...get it? he's breaking...badly) during crescendos in plot/drama and yet at other times is incredibly calm and frankly quietly boring. They are pure exaggerations of the stresses that we go through all the time.

The rape scene was a very minor plot point. This is where you go "you wouldn't say that if it were someone you know!"...and you're right, of course I wouldn't.

And anyway - I don't know if you watched this far (Spoiler warning?) - but Skyler proceeds to regularly cheat on him. Is that "okay" because of his actions?

Anyway, if you had gotten past that bit, you'd have encountered a character named Gale. Gale is a great great character, utterly sympathetic and wonderful. And yet he's still a meth cooker and therefore ruining the lives of hundreds of people. You would have liked him, though, because he's a sweetheart and had nothing to do with women.

As a television show as a whole, it has NOTHING to do with the scene you mention. Sorry. You are focusing too much on it and losing the rest of the show. It was a tiny, tiny portion of a person's whole existence falling apart. Again, this is not trivializing real rape. Of course if you posted it online pretending it happened to you people would call it real rape. This is a television show. People get raped and murdered on CSI all the time.

I don't know why I wrote so much about this; but don't lump fans of the show into a "women hater" category by equivocating them with rape apologists.

For your question: I'm a man.

Final note: Pretty much everything every character does on the show is WRONG. It's about desperate murderous meth cookers, wrecked marriages, dangerous gangbangers, sleazy lawyers and junkies. I find it suspect that you assign so much weight to that one particular act compared to the others.
posted by carlh at 6:12 PM on August 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

It's been a while since I saw the first season, but I also don't recall any rape either. But I do recall this scene in Episode 7 where Walter and Skyler have sex in his car? Wikipedia calls this scene "rough sex." Also, Skyler says when they are finished "why was it so good?" So it's clear there is an element of sadomasochism to their relationship.

Obviously, neither a show nor a group-edited encyclopedia should not be used as the basis for criminal law or sexual consent, so let's proceed with your definition. Walt raped Skyler.

The reason why he is a compelling character, and the show is so riveting, is two-fold, in my view.

1. The show is about the dilemma in everyone's life: To do the morally righteous and difficult, ultimately futile thing (i.e. in Walt's case grinding it out as a chemistry teacher, possibly dying of cancer and going bankrupt) or doing something easier, faster and wrong (making meth and all the associated crimes that come with that). Which leads to point two:

2. Walt, as you point out, was never that much of a good guy. He was, in fact, even from the onset of his family life, seething with resentment over not actualizing his potential and career as a chemist. Driven both by desperation and regret, he began making meth, and, in an ironic twist - turned out to be the BEST at that occupation, as a high volume cook. However, he's not so good with the associated aspects of being a career criminal - murder, money laundering etc. The show is fascinating to watch him transform into the one thing that he always was deep inside but kept barely bottled-up due to societal constraints, the expectations of his loved ones and a lack of imagination: A bad, bad man.

Male.
posted by surewouldoutlaw at 6:13 PM on August 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm female and I just finished watching the third season. This show completely blows me away and in my opinion is the best thing on television right now. For me, it is not a question about Walt being likable or not. REPEAT: it is not about likability. I would say that in the first season I pitied him more than liked him (and I'm with others that the rape scene did not scream "rape" to me, so I don't have that mental hurdle to overcome) and since then, he has become less pitiable and more cold and calculating.

I don't need to "like" the character in order to enjoy the show and appreciate the amazing acting and truly phenomenal storytelling. I watch Breaking Bad as a sort of visual novel that chronicles one man's descent into evil and the lives he ruins along the way. It's not feel-good storytelling, that's for sure, but it grabs me and won't let go.

[Wondering: do you watch Mad Men? Because I think Don Draper is the same sort of anti-hero as Walt, and has also done some truly repugnant things. Do you feel the same way about him?]
posted by Bella Sebastian at 6:15 PM on August 2, 2011

Likable is a tricky word to use here, I think it makes more sense to talk about whether Walter White is a "compelling" character. I don't think it matters in the slightest whether he's likable and I think if we engage fiction trying (or feeling duty bound) to like the central characters we may well miss the bulk of the artistic value.

Rather, it whether we want to turn away from the character or keep on watching. White is a bad man and gets worse, mid-season 3 after having killed Jesse's girlfriend and finding he was more-or-less cancerless I assumed the show would end with his confession and suicide, but no. White plods on getting himself ever deeper.

To me the central questions of the show are: how far will Walter White, a man who once hated his life and was sentenced to death go to perpetuate his hardly less-miserable life at the expense of others? Has anything motivating him changed? Is he any less obsessed with status quo and keeping up appearances? Did he find any liberation in his transgression, or did it just transmute his binding ties into something he can't recognize well enough to hate (yet)?
posted by Matt Oneiros at 6:22 PM on August 2, 2011 [1 favorite]