is this abuse by my b-i-l

August 1, 2011 7:25 PM

is it abusive of my brother-in-law to not bring home a paycheck, but yet my sister who has MS holds down 1 full time and 2 part time jobs? She takes care of the household stuff also. He's been fairly worthless for years but I haven't said anything. I figured it was my sister's business. I figured I would only get into a relatives business if there was abuse. Is this abuse?
posted by swmobill to Human Relations (29 answers total)

From the information provided there is no way to know if it is abuse.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:26 PM on August 1, 2011

I mean, actually, it sounds like it's not abuse, but if he's somehow forcing her to live like this against her will it could be part of an abusive situation.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:28 PM on August 1, 2011

Well, I'm assuming if there's no other way of supporting the family, he is forcing her to do this. I'm sorry to hear this. But you need to tell us -- what does she think about this? How resistant is she or isn't she to conversations about her situation? We do need more information.
posted by sweetkid at 7:32 PM on August 1, 2011

if he belittles your sister or ignores her needs entirely, I'd hazard to call it emotional abandonment/borderline abuse, yes. but standard definitions of abuse don't seem applicable without more info.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:35 PM on August 1, 2011

I would not make this assumption by any means. You have absolutely no idea what the inside of anyone else's marriage/partnership looks like or how it functions. You also have no idea what arrangement they've come to regarding... well, anything really.

What you can do and what isn't, in my opinion, inappropriate, is ask her if she needs more support, if there's anything you can do to help her, and occasionally gently open the door to her telling you whatever she might want to share.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:40 PM on August 1, 2011 [6 favorites]

we don't have enough information to answer your question. What you describe isn't "abusive", although it may be dysfunctional or a very co-dependent relationship.
posted by tomswift at 7:41 PM on August 1, 2011

If he forces her to do it, then yes. If not, then no.

If she's not being kept against her will, she does have to option to not be with him and support him.

So keep your eyes peeled. Keep checking up on her. Show your concern and your willingness to help her out if she needs you for an emergency, but otherwise stay out of it.

Sometimes, being an asshole doesn't equal abuse. It just means he's an asshole.
posted by inturnaround at 7:49 PM on August 1, 2011 [2 favorites]

This is unanswerable. We have no idea why he doesn't have a job, if he's trying to get a job, or what either of them thinks about the situation. You tell us she has MS, but you don't tell us if he has any condition that could make it hard for him to work. We don't know if he has any other income, like any kind of public benefits. People can also contribute to society and a relationship in ways other than earning a paycheck, but you seem to want to reduce him to his money-making potential. Have you talked with your sister about it?
posted by John Cohen at 7:50 PM on August 1, 2011 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks!! Her siblings and I have provide both moral and monetary support over the years. He doesn't force her. But, she has will do whatever needs done to support the family. If she didn't have MS, I wouldn't be asking. I'm really try to get a feeling how much I should get involved. I agree, you never know how a marriage works. thanks again.
posted by swmobill at 7:54 PM on August 1, 2011

Response by poster: he doesn't have a job because he is only willing to work certain jobs. I have no beef with someone who is willing to work, no matter what he makes. the jobs he choose are ones he is not very good at.
posted by swmobill at 7:55 PM on August 1, 2011

If he is unwilling to work and she's got MS and a few jobs, then it may not exactly be abuse, but it sure is shitty.

I would imagine that this situation will not be teneble for long - MS is not a forgiving illness, especially if she doesn't take care of herself and her health. Does she seem unhappy with the situation? If she wanted to take a step back and not work so much, would he be amenable? The answers to those questions are the salient ones in this case.
posted by guster4lovers at 8:03 PM on August 1, 2011 [4 favorites]

he is only willing to work certain jobs

....sounds reasonable to me?
posted by bearette at 8:04 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]

sorry to be flip. I just mean that most people have a limit to what jobs they will do, or feel they are qualified for. It doesn't necessarily mean that he is purposely avoiding work.
posted by bearette at 8:08 PM on August 1, 2011

Response by poster: again thanks! he had a chance to manage a grocery store. wouldn't take it. instead took a job as an insurance salesman. he's not very good at sales. works for commission only, so, hasn't brought home pay for a month or two. sorry, i didn't give all the story, but didn't want a long story. also, i come from a family where you do whatever needs done to take care of your family.
posted by swmobill at 8:23 PM on August 1, 2011

Someone being unemployed is not abuse. It just isn't. Full stop.
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on August 1, 2011 [7 favorites]

come from a family where you do whatever needs done to take care of your family.

swmobill, he may well be a bad husband (we don't really have enough info to be sure although it sounds like it) but being a bad husband is not the same as being abusive. You should probably concentrate on the whole "being a crappy husband" thing rather than viewing it as potential abuse.
posted by Justinian at 8:25 PM on August 1, 2011 [8 favorites]

You're not asking if this is abuse. You're asking if you should get involved. Think about the question that way, instead of setting up an abuse-threshold for getting involved and asking if this is abuse.

Does your sister need your help?
Can you help?

These are the only two relevant questions, and you need to ask them of yourself, and probably also of your sister.
posted by Capri at 8:30 PM on August 1, 2011 [15 favorites]

The best that you can do is make it clear to your sister that you're willing to help her no matter what to the best extent possible, but do so in a way that isn't offputting.

For example:

"You know sis, if *something* were to happen, you know that spouse and I would do anything to help you and the kids. If you need us, we'll be there in a second."

And say this as often as you can without it being awkward.
posted by k8t at 8:30 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]

Other than the sense in which any selfishness or thoughtlessness at all is abuse (guilty), this is not abuse.
posted by michaelh at 8:30 PM on August 1, 2011

I think I know how you feel because a good friend of mine has an older sister w/ MS who finally, just this past week, dumped the boyfriend who was sponging off her.

My friend is OVER THE MOON happy her sister has dumped the guy. The sister is getting a new companion dog and she's finally got some other positive things going on, as well.

MS is a terrible disease, and I understand your worry. You are right to be concerned. I get it.

The way my friend handled her situation is that she stayed involved, tried to do positive things (like find a new appropriate companion dog for her sister when her first pup passed away) and she gnashed her teeth a lot from a distance. She made her feelings about the crap boyfriend known, but didn't isolate her sister. Does that make sense?

---

I don't know how your family works, but since your sister is actually married to her guy. Damn. Maybe pull him aside and give him a good talking to? I see no reason for you to keep your concerns quiet. I agree her husband should be doing EVERYTHING possible to make her life easier. This is serious. Especially if your family has provided financial support in the past, although in truth, this is soley about her health and well-being. But the financial aspect of that is huge.

I guess you could start off nice with him and find out why he is so damn clueless.

---

I know about MS up close and personal. I'm a little appalled to hear about this situation. I suggest you gently take concrete steps to change whatever is going on. Subtle influence, direct suggestions, what have you. Don't create a rift, but I think it is OK if you and your family goes on record that the status quo in that household must change.

What is your other option? Watch your sister suffer from afar and say nothing because it isn't politically correct? Uh, no. No, thank you.
posted by jbenben at 8:39 PM on August 1, 2011 [4 favorites]

he had a chance to manage a grocery store. wouldn't take it. instead took a job as an insurance salesman. he's not very good at sales. works for commission only, so, hasn't brought home pay for a month or two.

Does this mean he has a job, but you just disagree with the job he chose because you don't think it provides enough income? If that's the case, sure, it has provided no income in a couple of months, but it's really not the same thing as not having a job.

You should stay out of this. I don't think it's any of your business that you would rather your brother-in-law manage a grocery store (a job opportunity which may no longer exist) than sell insurance. Trying to cast this as "abuse" seems like a twisted way of getting around an unnecessary restriction you put on yourself. Stop thinking about the abuse; start helping your sister.
posted by grouse at 9:20 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure if I understand this situation: your brother-in-law doesn't bring home a paycheck, but is employed as a commission-based insurance salesman? Your "sister who has MS holds down 1 full time and 2 part time jobs" and "takes care of the household stuff also"?

I think you're saying that your sister, who is ill with MS, is working minimally 60 hours/week (assuming each PT job = 10 h/wk) and doing all the housework. Are you certain of this?
posted by sfkiddo at 9:42 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]

Just because it is a situation you wouldn't like to find yourself in, doesn't make it abuse. Different families operate in different ways. My own sister worked a fulltime job and did all the grunt work of raising 3 babies in nappies while her husband wouldn't lift a finger. It was bought up one day and she informed me that was the deal they made when they got married and she was fine with it, it worked for them. Now I would hate that, but my opinion doesn't matter - and it certainly wasn't abuse.

For all you know, your brother-in-law does things for the family you're not even aware of because why should you be? There are other ways to contribute besides the obvious, even though from the outside it may look like he's not pulling his weight. If they seem happy and it's working, it's generally a good idea to not get involved - even if you'd never stand for it yourself.
posted by Jubey at 10:18 PM on August 1, 2011 [2 favorites]

Technically he's not abusive, but it sounds plausible that he's a jerk and/or possibly a layabout. You probably can't change that, though. What did you want to do, slip her money under the table?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:36 PM on August 1, 2011

You not liking your sister's husband, does not make him abusive.

You are looking for an excuse to help your sister with this perceived problem in her marriage, but would only meddle if it was abusive, therefore it must be abusive.

Nothing you have posted here makes it abusive. Depending on how tinted the description is by your feelings towards him, he might or might not be a sub-par husband, but please be honest with yourself.

If you think your sister feels trapped in her marriage, by all means make sure she knows she always has dependable people to fall back on. But as long as she's happy with her silly man, trust in her judgment.
posted by HFSH at 11:54 PM on August 1, 2011 [5 favorites]

It's not abusive. It would be abusive if he was making her do it or not working at all. It would be abusive if his other behaviour was controlling and manipulative and if he was guilting her in some way into doing it so that he could spend all of her money, leaving her with none.

It's not necessarily very nice, but it's not abusive unless their are other longstanding behaviors that go along with what you've described.

As mentioned above, married people often have their own agreements that seem bizarre to outsiders.
posted by mleigh at 2:20 AM on August 2, 2011

Your original question was misleading at best. He is employed. He just doesn't make as much money as you think he should make.

I recommend that you stop trying to make judgments about him or apply inflammatory words to him, and mind your own business.
posted by John Cohen at 8:22 AM on August 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Ask your sister: Sis, I worry about you working so much when you have MS. Are you happy with the way things are? Is there anything I can do for you?

I don't approve of this situation, necessarily, and if your sister was my best friend, I might start paying attention and potentially talk to her, but people get to live their own lives. It's nice that you love her; make sure you mention it from time to time.
posted by theora55 at 3:57 PM on August 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: i appreciated all the comments. it was exactly what i was looking for. i needed to hear a bunch of different thoughts from all sides. y'all have provided me a nice path forward.
posted by swmobill at 10:21 AM on August 4, 2011