What am doing wrong?
August 1, 2011 12:29 PM Subscribe
What am I doing wrong in regards to dating, if anything? I only seem to connect to the "wrong" people. When someone likes me, I usually don't like them back. And more...
To start with, I'm an introvert- an INFP (the sensitive, moody, dreaming-life-away type introvert). I'm also somewhat of a late bloomer, finally coming into what I feel is my attractiveness after feeling basically invisible throughout my 20's (in my early 30's now). I used to feel I was pretty much invisible to guys, but after changing lifestyle habits, getting fit, etc, it's now fairly easy for me to get attention and dates.
But....I seem to be doing something wrong because the people who are interested in me don't seem right for me. I do online dating, but I have come to dread it because I hate meeting up with someone in person only to know within 5 minutes or less that I am not interested. Oftentimes they are interested and I feel like I should give them a second chance and I usually do. But I just wind up feeling bored and like I am wasting time.
Also, things happen that I don't understand. Recently a guy (not through the internet) asked me out to dinner. I knew it was probably a date and thought I was not interested, but I thought maybe we could be friends so I went anyway. We went for a walk after and he "made his move", and we wound up making out- yes, I was participating. I guess I was curious. He asked me out again and the same thing happened- after which I decided I wasn't interested. Of course, I felt guilty for leading him on and I am still not sure if how I acted was right. He doesn't seem too happy.
It's weird, when i was in my 20's and "less attractive", I'd get crushes on guys who would sort of use me for sex and then dump me, and variations on that theme. A couple of times I'd confess crushes to guy friends but they were never returned. Now that my appearance has changed it seems the opposite sort of keeps happening. Guys will like me but I don't feel that interested. I feel weary.
Sometimes my interest is piqued by the thought of having a purely sexual relationship. At this time it just seems easier because the romance stuff just isn't working out. Sometimes I dabble with the idea of meeting a guy just for sex. But I can never quite go through with it.
I recently went on two dates with a guy from the internetwho was nice, and nice-looking, but I can't think of anything to talk about with him. He wants to meet again but I am not sure, because I feel kind of blah but I also feel maybe I should give him another chance....
On top of this, I have strong feelings for two guy friends who are in serious relationships. I can't reproduce these feelings for available guys; why?!
I've tried dating. I've been online. I've accepted dates from guys in real life. I've confessed feelings to guys. Nothing seems to work.
The most I have experience is short-term (a couple months at the longest ) "relationships". I enjoy spending time alone, as an introvert, but I also long to share feelings with someone and have them reciprocated. I do feel I have a lot to offer.
I'm just wondering if anyone has ideas or wants to share what working for them. Either that, or can point out something glaring about me or what I am doing that may be causing a problem.
Any responses very much appreciated.
To start with, I'm an introvert- an INFP (the sensitive, moody, dreaming-life-away type introvert). I'm also somewhat of a late bloomer, finally coming into what I feel is my attractiveness after feeling basically invisible throughout my 20's (in my early 30's now). I used to feel I was pretty much invisible to guys, but after changing lifestyle habits, getting fit, etc, it's now fairly easy for me to get attention and dates.
But....I seem to be doing something wrong because the people who are interested in me don't seem right for me. I do online dating, but I have come to dread it because I hate meeting up with someone in person only to know within 5 minutes or less that I am not interested. Oftentimes they are interested and I feel like I should give them a second chance and I usually do. But I just wind up feeling bored and like I am wasting time.
Also, things happen that I don't understand. Recently a guy (not through the internet) asked me out to dinner. I knew it was probably a date and thought I was not interested, but I thought maybe we could be friends so I went anyway. We went for a walk after and he "made his move", and we wound up making out- yes, I was participating. I guess I was curious. He asked me out again and the same thing happened- after which I decided I wasn't interested. Of course, I felt guilty for leading him on and I am still not sure if how I acted was right. He doesn't seem too happy.
It's weird, when i was in my 20's and "less attractive", I'd get crushes on guys who would sort of use me for sex and then dump me, and variations on that theme. A couple of times I'd confess crushes to guy friends but they were never returned. Now that my appearance has changed it seems the opposite sort of keeps happening. Guys will like me but I don't feel that interested. I feel weary.
Sometimes my interest is piqued by the thought of having a purely sexual relationship. At this time it just seems easier because the romance stuff just isn't working out. Sometimes I dabble with the idea of meeting a guy just for sex. But I can never quite go through with it.
I recently went on two dates with a guy from the internetwho was nice, and nice-looking, but I can't think of anything to talk about with him. He wants to meet again but I am not sure, because I feel kind of blah but I also feel maybe I should give him another chance....
On top of this, I have strong feelings for two guy friends who are in serious relationships. I can't reproduce these feelings for available guys; why?!
I've tried dating. I've been online. I've accepted dates from guys in real life. I've confessed feelings to guys. Nothing seems to work.
The most I have experience is short-term (a couple months at the longest ) "relationships". I enjoy spending time alone, as an introvert, but I also long to share feelings with someone and have them reciprocated. I do feel I have a lot to offer.
I'm just wondering if anyone has ideas or wants to share what working for them. Either that, or can point out something glaring about me or what I am doing that may be causing a problem.
Any responses very much appreciated.
You aren't doing anything wrong. Its perfectly fine to go on two dates and make out and decide its not for you. You should be exactly as picky as you want to be. Dating can kinda suck, but what's worse is sticking with someone not quite right for years so that you end up in this lonely, boring, ennui encompassed world. Stick with it! Try different online venues, go out with friends, Be upfront about your sensitive, introverted, dreamy ways. There are people out there for you.
posted by stormygrey at 12:37 PM on August 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by stormygrey at 12:37 PM on August 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well... are you mainly meeting these guys you're not into via online dating, and meeting the guys you ARE into in real life?
Online dating is a great resource and works for a lot of people. But I have found personally that there are many guys I've been super into who I would have totally passed over if I'd just seen their profile on an online dating site, and many guys who look/sound great on the internet but I am just not into them in person.
Maybe try meeting more guys IRL?
posted by Ashley801 at 12:39 PM on August 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Online dating is a great resource and works for a lot of people. But I have found personally that there are many guys I've been super into who I would have totally passed over if I'd just seen their profile on an online dating site, and many guys who look/sound great on the internet but I am just not into them in person.
Maybe try meeting more guys IRL?
posted by Ashley801 at 12:39 PM on August 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm also somewhat of a late bloomer, finally coming into what I feel is my attractiveness after feeling basically invisible throughout my 20's (in my early 30's now). I used to feel I was pretty much invisible to guys, but after changing lifestyle habits, getting fit, etc, it's now fairly easy for me to get attention and dates.
I'm a bit younger but otherwise, this is me, and I'm familiar with the reactions you're having. For me, it's like this: the sort of guy I would really like to be with, I just have this knee-jerk reaction of "not gonna happen.' It comes from the years of low self-esteem and not being able to get dates- even though I'm totally dateable NOW, I have all this residual bullshit left over. So I basically rule out anyone I might actually be compatible with, because, well, I like them so they're clearly too good for me and thus won't like me. It's 100% subconscious, or at least it was- now I try to call myself out on it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:42 PM on August 1, 2011 [16 favorites]
I'm a bit younger but otherwise, this is me, and I'm familiar with the reactions you're having. For me, it's like this: the sort of guy I would really like to be with, I just have this knee-jerk reaction of "not gonna happen.' It comes from the years of low self-esteem and not being able to get dates- even though I'm totally dateable NOW, I have all this residual bullshit left over. So I basically rule out anyone I might actually be compatible with, because, well, I like them so they're clearly too good for me and thus won't like me. It's 100% subconscious, or at least it was- now I try to call myself out on it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:42 PM on August 1, 2011 [16 favorites]
Geez, I could have written a lot of this question. I know it seems like you want to look at yourself and see what you're "doing wrong," but you're probably not. It takes time, and don't ask me how much time because I've been pretty unsuccessful with dating, online or otherwise for the last five years (ick!). And every time I make a rule that really is for my best health and benefit ( no friends with benefits! only x amount of time before this situation is real or I bail with no more contact!) I feel like it just narrows the pool rather than leaving space for the ideal guy or whatever. I just think overanalyzing or obsessing about it isn't helpful and will only lead to ruin. If this is really affecting your self esteem, try therapy. You can also Memail me if you just want some "atta girl" type support because I have so been there, and I know by your early thirties complaining at all to coupled friends about your lack of dating life gets you the sad puppy face.
posted by sweetkid at 12:44 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by sweetkid at 12:44 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
One thing I noticed as I got older is that I knew much better what I wanted from a SO, and I realized that 99% of the people I met would not be it. I know myself much better than I did when I was younger, and I know what I like in others. This isn't to say that ZOMG you have only one soul mate or that someone who isn't 100% your type should be spurned. But I've lived on my own, I know I don't need someone to be happy, and I realized that I'd probably be happier on my own than I would with someone who thinks Two and a Half Men is totally funny.
And, as I happily cluck at every opportunity, I found a delightful lady on the intarwebs and we're getting married. We are very well matched.
(I also was a late bloomer, and I realized quickly that just because you may be a catch does not mean you need to get caught; it's a funny lesson to learn as a recovering ugly duckling/wallflower.)
posted by Admiral Haddock at 12:52 PM on August 1, 2011 [9 favorites]
And, as I happily cluck at every opportunity, I found a delightful lady on the intarwebs and we're getting married. We are very well matched.
(I also was a late bloomer, and I realized quickly that just because you may be a catch does not mean you need to get caught; it's a funny lesson to learn as a recovering ugly duckling/wallflower.)
posted by Admiral Haddock at 12:52 PM on August 1, 2011 [9 favorites]
What struck me in your question is that you seem to focusing on how you have changed physically (getting fit etc) and that these changes have brought you more attention - great! But what about the other parts of your life? Do you have some hobbies? Are you persuing those hobbies? Do you have some close friends that you hang out with? What kind of things do you do, and what do you talk about with your friends?
You say
I recently went on two dates with a guy from the internet who was nice, and nice-looking, but I can't think of anything to talk about with him
Why is this? Off the top of my head it could be because he is boring, or because you generally didn't feel comfortable talking to him, or because you don't like to talk much about yourself..... Depending on the answer, there are different solutions - if he is boring, don't feel bad, but don't committ to another date. If you don't like to talk about yourself very much, plan a date that will get you talking about the date (a walk around the Botanical Gardens, a game of bowling, or mini golf or something like that)
posted by unlaced at 12:59 PM on August 1, 2011
You say
I recently went on two dates with a guy from the internet who was nice, and nice-looking, but I can't think of anything to talk about with him
Why is this? Off the top of my head it could be because he is boring, or because you generally didn't feel comfortable talking to him, or because you don't like to talk much about yourself..... Depending on the answer, there are different solutions - if he is boring, don't feel bad, but don't committ to another date. If you don't like to talk about yourself very much, plan a date that will get you talking about the date (a walk around the Botanical Gardens, a game of bowling, or mini golf or something like that)
posted by unlaced at 12:59 PM on August 1, 2011
This is going to sound facetious but it's not:
Date smarter, not hotter.
posted by Nixy at 1:11 PM on August 1, 2011 [11 favorites]
Date smarter, not hotter.
posted by Nixy at 1:11 PM on August 1, 2011 [11 favorites]
I'm pretty much in your shoes, only in my early 40s and not 30s. Everyone here is right on in saying when you're older you know yourself better, and yeah, you're doing nothing wrong. For some reason, God/Whomever has decided that He/She/It is going to make it way more difficult for some people than for others in finding a mate.
One thing I've also noticed is that you can't just "decide" who you're going to like and who you're not. I remember going on an online date, sitting across from him and thinking, "he's perfect on paper. Why aren't I feeling anything?" I went out on five dates, and kept waiting for some kind of supernatural spark to hit, and it didn't.
At the same time, I'm totally in lust with my unavailable friend, to the point where I've distanced myself from him to keep from getting aggravated. And this person is less attractive and has fewer common interests than the aforementioned online date. You click with some people, you don't with others. This clicking can occur completely randomly, depending on the time, place, what kind of mood you're in, what you've had for breakfast that day. It's a completely mysterious thing, and we have no control over it.
posted by Melismata at 1:14 PM on August 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
One thing I've also noticed is that you can't just "decide" who you're going to like and who you're not. I remember going on an online date, sitting across from him and thinking, "he's perfect on paper. Why aren't I feeling anything?" I went out on five dates, and kept waiting for some kind of supernatural spark to hit, and it didn't.
At the same time, I'm totally in lust with my unavailable friend, to the point where I've distanced myself from him to keep from getting aggravated. And this person is less attractive and has fewer common interests than the aforementioned online date. You click with some people, you don't with others. This clicking can occur completely randomly, depending on the time, place, what kind of mood you're in, what you've had for breakfast that day. It's a completely mysterious thing, and we have no control over it.
posted by Melismata at 1:14 PM on August 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
Whether you're meeting people online or offline, please remember that you should never feel obliged to kiss (or hug, or sleep with, or anything else) anybody unless you want to.
I think forcing oneself to kiss somebody one doesn't actually want to kiss is a quick way to move that person from the mental category of "didn't click immediately, not sure whether I'm feeling any attraction" to the category of "oh HELL no, don't touch me again and for the love of all that's holy do not mash your lips against mine again (ick ick ick)". YMMV, of course.
posted by Lexica at 1:38 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think forcing oneself to kiss somebody one doesn't actually want to kiss is a quick way to move that person from the mental category of "didn't click immediately, not sure whether I'm feeling any attraction" to the category of "oh HELL no, don't touch me again and for the love of all that's holy do not mash your lips against mine again (ick ick ick)". YMMV, of course.
posted by Lexica at 1:38 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm male but otherwise in a maybe sort-of similar boat.
When I was younger I would have gone out with anyone who a) was decently attractive to me, b) was a decently nice person and c) was willing to go out with me. Not only that, i would have considered them a candidate for a serious relationship.
Now I'm in my 30s and I'm a thousand times more picky. I know what my dealbreakers are and there are kind of a lot of them I guess. And yeah, it means being lonely a lot of the time. Sometimes it feels like I'm being rejected, even when I'm the one doing the rejecting. I think that's just how it goes as you get older and figure out what you want.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:45 PM on August 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
When I was younger I would have gone out with anyone who a) was decently attractive to me, b) was a decently nice person and c) was willing to go out with me. Not only that, i would have considered them a candidate for a serious relationship.
Now I'm in my 30s and I'm a thousand times more picky. I know what my dealbreakers are and there are kind of a lot of them I guess. And yeah, it means being lonely a lot of the time. Sometimes it feels like I'm being rejected, even when I'm the one doing the rejecting. I think that's just how it goes as you get older and figure out what you want.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:45 PM on August 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
There's also a bit of what showbiz_liz said: sometimes I will find someone attractive but be convinced they are "out of my league" because of my experiences when I was younger.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:45 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:45 PM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm also an INFP and was a late bloomer so I think I can relate to what you are saying. When I started getting attention, I didn't know how to handle it and so I went out with anyone who asked. It took me a long time to figure out what I wanted in a guy and to not give guys "a chance" because they were interested in me. INFPs are pretty intuitive and know on a gut level that things aren't working before it filters up our thinking brain. Sometimes I try to override my gut either because I "should" or people give me advice, and that doesn't work out well. Maybe you like to take time to feel things out, filter a little, listen to your own voice and the attention you're getting is making you tired.
I'm making a lot of assumptions because you say you are an INFP but here goes: It may be hard to get to know you. I'm sure you have a rich inner world and it takes a little longer for you to reveal yourself. You need a guy who's going to pay attention to you as you unfold who you really are, what you really care about and you're not going to give that to everyone who wants to take you out to dinner. That's why you probably feel attracted to your guy friends: they know you, they like you, and that feels great. My advice is to take dating super slow. Don't berate yourself for being bored or not liking guys enough. Be picky! You're looking for a best friend type (I mean, with hot sex and all too!), and that takes time. I guess what I'm saying is make more guy friends. I personally think it's easier for an introvert to be romantically involved with an introvert (because I get too tired out with too many extroverted big party/social occasions) but that may just be me. Look at who your friends are--what do you like about them and can you look for more of that quality? Spend enough time as you need to listen to your inner voice and follow your gut. I also recommend reading this book.
posted by hellochula at 1:57 PM on August 1, 2011 [13 favorites]
I'm making a lot of assumptions because you say you are an INFP but here goes: It may be hard to get to know you. I'm sure you have a rich inner world and it takes a little longer for you to reveal yourself. You need a guy who's going to pay attention to you as you unfold who you really are, what you really care about and you're not going to give that to everyone who wants to take you out to dinner. That's why you probably feel attracted to your guy friends: they know you, they like you, and that feels great. My advice is to take dating super slow. Don't berate yourself for being bored or not liking guys enough. Be picky! You're looking for a best friend type (I mean, with hot sex and all too!), and that takes time. I guess what I'm saying is make more guy friends. I personally think it's easier for an introvert to be romantically involved with an introvert (because I get too tired out with too many extroverted big party/social occasions) but that may just be me. Look at who your friends are--what do you like about them and can you look for more of that quality? Spend enough time as you need to listen to your inner voice and follow your gut. I also recommend reading this book.
posted by hellochula at 1:57 PM on August 1, 2011 [13 favorites]
I am also a female INFP and I have a bunch of INFP friends. We all seem to share this problem in common. For whatever reason INFP women are generally attracted to emotionally unavailable men.
I think INFP women can find reciprocal love but they need a very specific and uncommon type of guy -- one who is both intense and strong (has a "bite") but also nurturing and supportive without being mushy. Does this sound at all like your type?
This is a surprisingly hard combination to find because intense and strong often go along with emotionally unavailable and nurturing often goes along with edgeless or sometimes even weak. Sorry to generalize but that's been my experience. INFP need both because they won't respect a guy without an edge but they also want someone who understands their emotions.
I fell in love with a guy I met two months ago online. He is the first person I've been really attracted to who returns my affection, and I really think it's because he has that rare combination of traits. He's an INFJ for what it's worth. I may be taking this MBTI thing a little far but I find I'm most attracted to INFJ/INTJ/ENTJ men. But all the INTJ/ENTJ men I've been attracted to have been emotionally unavailable and cold.
So my advice to you is to keep looking and stop giving guys second chances if you don't feel the attraction immediately.
posted by timsneezed at 2:05 PM on August 1, 2011 [21 favorites]
I think INFP women can find reciprocal love but they need a very specific and uncommon type of guy -- one who is both intense and strong (has a "bite") but also nurturing and supportive without being mushy. Does this sound at all like your type?
This is a surprisingly hard combination to find because intense and strong often go along with emotionally unavailable and nurturing often goes along with edgeless or sometimes even weak. Sorry to generalize but that's been my experience. INFP need both because they won't respect a guy without an edge but they also want someone who understands their emotions.
I fell in love with a guy I met two months ago online. He is the first person I've been really attracted to who returns my affection, and I really think it's because he has that rare combination of traits. He's an INFJ for what it's worth. I may be taking this MBTI thing a little far but I find I'm most attracted to INFJ/INTJ/ENTJ men. But all the INTJ/ENTJ men I've been attracted to have been emotionally unavailable and cold.
So my advice to you is to keep looking and stop giving guys second chances if you don't feel the attraction immediately.
posted by timsneezed at 2:05 PM on August 1, 2011 [21 favorites]
Whats your love language? WHat do you need to feel loved? Theres a few: Touch, quality time, words of encouragement, gifts, and having things done for you.
Whats your passion? Find some group that does that, and it pre-selects for the probability that said person is interesting.
Date from the local college or grad school or NASA lab. Nerds, while we can be awkward, are awesome :D
To me, the 'only attracted to people in relationships' bit says they are safe, so you feel ok to... pine after them? lust for them? use them as a saftey blanket? Dont force yourself, but you do need to be open to people who it might be a little scary/intimidating to date... cause youre hot, youre smart, and you need to run with it. Ask a guy out :P
posted by Jacen at 2:30 PM on August 1, 2011
Whats your passion? Find some group that does that, and it pre-selects for the probability that said person is interesting.
Date from the local college or grad school or NASA lab. Nerds, while we can be awkward, are awesome :D
To me, the 'only attracted to people in relationships' bit says they are safe, so you feel ok to... pine after them? lust for them? use them as a saftey blanket? Dont force yourself, but you do need to be open to people who it might be a little scary/intimidating to date... cause youre hot, youre smart, and you need to run with it. Ask a guy out :P
posted by Jacen at 2:30 PM on August 1, 2011
Here are some INFP descriptions from this website:
Slow to trust others and cautious in the beginning of a relationship, an INFP will be fiercely loyal once they are committed. With their strong inner core of values, they are intense individuals who value depth and authenticity in their relationships, and hold those who understand and accept the INFP's perspectives in especially high regard. INFPs are usually adaptable and congenial, unless one of their ruling principles has been violated, in which case they stop adapting and become staunch defenders of their values. They will be uncharacteristically harsh and rigid in such a situation.
INFPs tendency to be idealistic and romantically-minded may cause them to fantasize frequently about a "more perfect" relationship or situation. They may also romanticize their mates into having qualities which they do not actually possess. Most INFPs have a problem with reconciling their highly idealistic and romantic views of life with the reality of their own lives, and so they are constantly somewhat unsettled with themselves and with their close personal relationships. However, the INFP's deeply-felt, sincere love for their mates and their intense dislike of conflict keeps the INFP loyal to their relationships, in spite of their troubles achieving peace of mind.
Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, INFP's natural partner is the ENFJ, or the ESFJ. INFP's dominant function of Introverted Feeling is best matched with a partner whose dominant function is Extraverted Feeling. The INFP/ENFJ combination is ideal, because it shares the Sensing way of peceiving, but the INFP/ESFJ combination is also a good match.
More, from this website:
They will have a great deal of insight into people's characters. They will quickly and thoroughly understand where a person is coming from by assessing their motives and feelings.
--Under great stress, may obsess about details that are unimportant to the big picture of things
--Under stress, may obsessively brood over a problem repeatedly
--May have unreasonable expectations of others
--May have difficulty maintaining close relationships, due to unreasonable expectations
A few things to think about:
1. Do you have unrealistic expectations of your potential partner?
2. Are you looking for the right kind of person?
And also this: It's going to take time. You WILL meet the right person. 98% of people end up married at some point in their life. You haven't met the right person yet.
posted by guster4lovers at 2:34 PM on August 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
Slow to trust others and cautious in the beginning of a relationship, an INFP will be fiercely loyal once they are committed. With their strong inner core of values, they are intense individuals who value depth and authenticity in their relationships, and hold those who understand and accept the INFP's perspectives in especially high regard. INFPs are usually adaptable and congenial, unless one of their ruling principles has been violated, in which case they stop adapting and become staunch defenders of their values. They will be uncharacteristically harsh and rigid in such a situation.
INFPs tendency to be idealistic and romantically-minded may cause them to fantasize frequently about a "more perfect" relationship or situation. They may also romanticize their mates into having qualities which they do not actually possess. Most INFPs have a problem with reconciling their highly idealistic and romantic views of life with the reality of their own lives, and so they are constantly somewhat unsettled with themselves and with their close personal relationships. However, the INFP's deeply-felt, sincere love for their mates and their intense dislike of conflict keeps the INFP loyal to their relationships, in spite of their troubles achieving peace of mind.
Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, INFP's natural partner is the ENFJ, or the ESFJ. INFP's dominant function of Introverted Feeling is best matched with a partner whose dominant function is Extraverted Feeling. The INFP/ENFJ combination is ideal, because it shares the Sensing way of peceiving, but the INFP/ESFJ combination is also a good match.
More, from this website:
They will have a great deal of insight into people's characters. They will quickly and thoroughly understand where a person is coming from by assessing their motives and feelings.
--Under great stress, may obsess about details that are unimportant to the big picture of things
--Under stress, may obsessively brood over a problem repeatedly
--May have unreasonable expectations of others
--May have difficulty maintaining close relationships, due to unreasonable expectations
A few things to think about:
1. Do you have unrealistic expectations of your potential partner?
2. Are you looking for the right kind of person?
And also this: It's going to take time. You WILL meet the right person. 98% of people end up married at some point in their life. You haven't met the right person yet.
posted by guster4lovers at 2:34 PM on August 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
One more thing (from my husband, who could have written your post about five years ago):
You see through people and know what you want straight away. You can't make yourself like someone, and you shouldn't second guess that - that's not going to change. Be open to other avenues and kinds of relationships; go outside your typical circle and stop meeting the same kind of person. He says that he never once found dating (including online) successful because his ethics of dating were different and often, his dates would be looking for superficial things rather than the deep connection he was looking for, then they'd reject him by those criteria, or they'd really like him but he knew there was no long-term future in it and he cut it off. It's all a pretty frustrating business.
FWIW, we met when we were both tavelling in South Africa. We got married 8 months later. That was four years ago this week.
posted by guster4lovers at 2:42 PM on August 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
You see through people and know what you want straight away. You can't make yourself like someone, and you shouldn't second guess that - that's not going to change. Be open to other avenues and kinds of relationships; go outside your typical circle and stop meeting the same kind of person. He says that he never once found dating (including online) successful because his ethics of dating were different and often, his dates would be looking for superficial things rather than the deep connection he was looking for, then they'd reject him by those criteria, or they'd really like him but he knew there was no long-term future in it and he cut it off. It's all a pretty frustrating business.
FWIW, we met when we were both tavelling in South Africa. We got married 8 months later. That was four years ago this week.
posted by guster4lovers at 2:42 PM on August 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
What do you want, relationship and dating-wise? Do you want a long-term partner? Do you want to just date and meet different people and be more social? And what qualities and values would you like this person to have? The two friends you have feelings for - what do you like about them (I hope it's not because they're in relationships)? In terms of personality, qualities, values? That'll give you a good sense of what to look for in another person.
Once you figure this out (this is what is meant by dating smarter, not hotter, as Nixy mentioned) you'll be able to know whether of not if the person in front of you is someone you'd be interested in spending more time with. Dating is about seeing if there's chemistry there (not just physical, but emotional, intellectual as well) and enough interest to go to the next date and the next and the next. It seems to me that you're just waiting for the feelings of attraction or whatever to kick in, and then you'll act. But just as you can decide to not be attracted/interested in someone, you can also decide to be attracted/interested in them too. I know, it sounds counterintuitive. On the one hand no, chemistry can't be forced or faked, but it has a greater chance of being cultivated if you know what you're looking for. You say that you want to share feelings with someone and have them reciprocated. This isn't very clear. Are you saying that you want to share your feelings about life, experiences, yourself, and have them share back their feelings about life, experiences, himself; thereby creating intimacy, or do you want to have feelings of attraction for that person reciprocated?
Also, things happen that I don't understand. Recently a guy (not through the internet) asked me out to dinner. I knew it was probably a date and thought I was not interested, but I thought maybe we could be friends so I went anyway. We went for a walk after and he "made his move", and we wound up making out- yes, I was participating. I guess I was curious. He asked me out again and the same thing happened- after which I decided I wasn't interested. Of course, I felt guilty for leading him on and I am still not sure if how I acted was right.
I'll point out what I think went wrong here. You were right in thinking that it was probably a date. But you went on it kind of trying to thwart that purpose. He thought you were on a date with you and since you accepted, thought you would be mentally in "date" mode, but you were in "I don't want to be on a date but see if he's friends material" mode. That was kind of unfair (not saying you're a bad person) right off the bat. If you don't want to go on a date, don't go on it and lead him to assuming something that he shouldn't be assuming. Same goes for the kissing. If you want to see if he'd be a good friend, do friends stuff with him, not date stuff. For some damage control, I think you should apologize to him, something like, "I'm sorry but I'm not really feeling it." He probably won't want to be friends with you, but oh well.
I can't think of anything to talk about with him.
I also wonder why this is - there could be lots of reasons. You're bad at making small talk? You have nothing in common? You're not interested in talking to him? You don't want to talk? Knowing the reasons will help you figure out if it's something you need to improve, or if the guy is not someone you're interested in. And if you feel kind of blah, for god's sake, don't waste his time. Don't give him another chance because it's the nice thing to do, or you think something might happen to change your mind.
posted by foxjacket at 2:44 PM on August 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Once you figure this out (this is what is meant by dating smarter, not hotter, as Nixy mentioned) you'll be able to know whether of not if the person in front of you is someone you'd be interested in spending more time with. Dating is about seeing if there's chemistry there (not just physical, but emotional, intellectual as well) and enough interest to go to the next date and the next and the next. It seems to me that you're just waiting for the feelings of attraction or whatever to kick in, and then you'll act. But just as you can decide to not be attracted/interested in someone, you can also decide to be attracted/interested in them too. I know, it sounds counterintuitive. On the one hand no, chemistry can't be forced or faked, but it has a greater chance of being cultivated if you know what you're looking for. You say that you want to share feelings with someone and have them reciprocated. This isn't very clear. Are you saying that you want to share your feelings about life, experiences, yourself, and have them share back their feelings about life, experiences, himself; thereby creating intimacy, or do you want to have feelings of attraction for that person reciprocated?
Also, things happen that I don't understand. Recently a guy (not through the internet) asked me out to dinner. I knew it was probably a date and thought I was not interested, but I thought maybe we could be friends so I went anyway. We went for a walk after and he "made his move", and we wound up making out- yes, I was participating. I guess I was curious. He asked me out again and the same thing happened- after which I decided I wasn't interested. Of course, I felt guilty for leading him on and I am still not sure if how I acted was right.
I'll point out what I think went wrong here. You were right in thinking that it was probably a date. But you went on it kind of trying to thwart that purpose. He thought you were on a date with you and since you accepted, thought you would be mentally in "date" mode, but you were in "I don't want to be on a date but see if he's friends material" mode. That was kind of unfair (not saying you're a bad person) right off the bat. If you don't want to go on a date, don't go on it and lead him to assuming something that he shouldn't be assuming. Same goes for the kissing. If you want to see if he'd be a good friend, do friends stuff with him, not date stuff. For some damage control, I think you should apologize to him, something like, "I'm sorry but I'm not really feeling it." He probably won't want to be friends with you, but oh well.
I can't think of anything to talk about with him.
I also wonder why this is - there could be lots of reasons. You're bad at making small talk? You have nothing in common? You're not interested in talking to him? You don't want to talk? Knowing the reasons will help you figure out if it's something you need to improve, or if the guy is not someone you're interested in. And if you feel kind of blah, for god's sake, don't waste his time. Don't give him another chance because it's the nice thing to do, or you think something might happen to change your mind.
posted by foxjacket at 2:44 PM on August 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Dear anon, just keep going! I'm sure you will find someone who will click with thee. I'm on the same fence, classified as INFx*, and am very, very introverted. Does not help that I'm playing for the other side. I firmly believe that one day I will meet my partner, and in the mean time, I spend my time doing what the supposed infs do best - self improvement - hobbies and more :)
Anecdote: I used to be attracted to guys that are cute/attractive. But once I got to know them better it's heartbreaking to learn how incompatible they are, mentally. Nowadays I look more for the mind side of things.
*PS: I no longer subscribe to MBTI, apart from the "I" - I am who I am, and no longer need labels nor the need to identify with one.
posted by TrinsicWS at 3:20 PM on August 1, 2011 [4 favorites]
Anecdote: I used to be attracted to guys that are cute/attractive. But once I got to know them better it's heartbreaking to learn how incompatible they are, mentally. Nowadays I look more for the mind side of things.
*PS: I no longer subscribe to MBTI, apart from the "I" - I am who I am, and no longer need labels nor the need to identify with one.
posted by TrinsicWS at 3:20 PM on August 1, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ok, first of all, you deserve congratulations for proactively making a positive change in your lifestyle and habits. It doesn't matter that it might not have paid off exactly the way you hoped it would, the fact that you actually had the focus and initiative to make it happen tells me that whatever the block is in your romantic life, you're going to be able to deal with it.
So, yeah, it kind of sounds to me like during your 20's, when you felt less attractive, you got yourself accustomed to various relationship dynamics that were about you wanting something you couldn't have, and now you're instinctively trying to replicate that dynamic by being attracted to guys who have girlfriends. It's like, your brain knows how to do the unrequited/unavailable thing, and while that sucks, it's familiar, and thus less scary. So it's not that you're not capable of being attracted to guys who are attracted to you, it's just going to take some getting used to. Don't expect yourself to get it right, right away.
My best practical advice would be to approach dating and meeting people with a more... "playful" attitude. Don't think of dates as make-of-break attempts to find "the right guy" where if you don't, the date is a "failure." Think of dates as social engagements that can be fun whether you have a spark with the guy or not. So play around. Make a date with someone online who seems so diametrically opposite yourself that you can't imagine how you'd get along -- and then find out. Go out with someone younger or older than you think you're into. Make dates that are more about something you really wanted to do anyway, and go into it with the attitude of "I'm going to enjoy this band/exhibit/activity, and you can either be an active participant or a spectator." Make a date with someone you think is seriously hot, but possibly dull and/or awful. Tell them that, see how they react. Are their topics you often find yourself talking about on dates? Go on a date where they are off-limits. Try out subtly different 'versions' of yourself on dates -- decide, on this date, I'm going to be my most bubbly; on this date, I'm going to be my most feisty; on this date, I'm going to be earnest and soulful.
The point of all this is that your goal on the date becomes just trying something different out, so at the end of the night, you "win" whether there's anything between you or not.
And remember, as long as you don't lie to a guy about how into him you are or are not, you don't have anything to feel guilty about. Dating is supposed to be fun in and of itself. People get pissy when they're more into you than you are them, but there's nothing you can do about it. If anything, making out with them first should at least be something of a consolation.
posted by patnasty at 3:30 PM on August 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
So, yeah, it kind of sounds to me like during your 20's, when you felt less attractive, you got yourself accustomed to various relationship dynamics that were about you wanting something you couldn't have, and now you're instinctively trying to replicate that dynamic by being attracted to guys who have girlfriends. It's like, your brain knows how to do the unrequited/unavailable thing, and while that sucks, it's familiar, and thus less scary. So it's not that you're not capable of being attracted to guys who are attracted to you, it's just going to take some getting used to. Don't expect yourself to get it right, right away.
My best practical advice would be to approach dating and meeting people with a more... "playful" attitude. Don't think of dates as make-of-break attempts to find "the right guy" where if you don't, the date is a "failure." Think of dates as social engagements that can be fun whether you have a spark with the guy or not. So play around. Make a date with someone online who seems so diametrically opposite yourself that you can't imagine how you'd get along -- and then find out. Go out with someone younger or older than you think you're into. Make dates that are more about something you really wanted to do anyway, and go into it with the attitude of "I'm going to enjoy this band/exhibit/activity, and you can either be an active participant or a spectator." Make a date with someone you think is seriously hot, but possibly dull and/or awful. Tell them that, see how they react. Are their topics you often find yourself talking about on dates? Go on a date where they are off-limits. Try out subtly different 'versions' of yourself on dates -- decide, on this date, I'm going to be my most bubbly; on this date, I'm going to be my most feisty; on this date, I'm going to be earnest and soulful.
The point of all this is that your goal on the date becomes just trying something different out, so at the end of the night, you "win" whether there's anything between you or not.
And remember, as long as you don't lie to a guy about how into him you are or are not, you don't have anything to feel guilty about. Dating is supposed to be fun in and of itself. People get pissy when they're more into you than you are them, but there's nothing you can do about it. If anything, making out with them first should at least be something of a consolation.
posted by patnasty at 3:30 PM on August 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
Anon, I believe that some folks "just know" immediately (I am one of them) and some people are the "give him a chance" people that may take weeks or months to decide they likey-like someone. In my experience, YOU CANNOT CHANGE WHICH ONE OF THESE YOU ARE. I dated all kinds of guys I had zero interest in like that. They all felt led on when I dated them and "gave them a chance," because they didn't really have one. I knew I wasn't interested whatsoever when I said yes to the date, I forced myself to go on the date (or two or three), I made out with them because I felt obligated to, and naturally they reasonably mistook this as me likey-liking them back. (Guys do tend to do that.) And naturally they were not happy either to find out otherwise. This is why I feel shitty about dating, and I am not doing it again unless I actually WANT to go on the date instead of feeling socially obligated to hand out chances like they're Halloween candy.
I don't know what would work for you, but giving guys you know you don't like like that a chance clearly is not working. So stop doing it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:47 PM on August 1, 2011 [7 favorites]
I don't know what would work for you, but giving guys you know you don't like like that a chance clearly is not working. So stop doing it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:47 PM on August 1, 2011 [7 favorites]
You are doing NOTHING wrong and because of your intuition you will have a better chance of finding someone amazing to you on many levels. It may take longer but it's worth it.
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 5:40 PM on August 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by InterestedInKnowing at 5:40 PM on August 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't think there is anything wrong with you! One thing may be missing from your logic, though...Anyone who is currently single could say most of the stuff you said above. That when they like someone, that person doesn't like them back, and vice versa. That none of their relationships have worked out. That's kind of the definition of being single, you know?
I am an INFP, and I don't know if this is a thing we all do, but I think in patterns. So I think, ugh my dates never work out! And my relationships always end! So probably my whole life will continue in this pattern! But the only difference between me and someone who is IN a relation, or married, or whatever, is that they have found ONE person who it is currently working with, who has a mutual attraction with them. Putting things in those terms makes having a significant other seem much more possible to me.
Also, maybe you could try giving people more of a chance! I don't think you can tell in 5 minutes whether you'll like a person or not. Sure, you get an idea, and that idea is probably pretty accurate, but you definitely won't know for sure. I know that when I'm dating, and let myself initially get put off, that person has zero chance of working his way back into my better graces. I'm too stubborn. So, I don't let myself think like that on a date. I have deal breakers, sure, but I have to stop myself right away when I start thinking "Ugh he is talking way too much about ________, and that is so lame." People aren't always their best on dates; they're nervous and not always acting like themselves. You could end up finding someone awesome when you give him more time to make a great impression!
posted by violetish at 6:22 PM on August 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
I am an INFP, and I don't know if this is a thing we all do, but I think in patterns. So I think, ugh my dates never work out! And my relationships always end! So probably my whole life will continue in this pattern! But the only difference between me and someone who is IN a relation, or married, or whatever, is that they have found ONE person who it is currently working with, who has a mutual attraction with them. Putting things in those terms makes having a significant other seem much more possible to me.
Also, maybe you could try giving people more of a chance! I don't think you can tell in 5 minutes whether you'll like a person or not. Sure, you get an idea, and that idea is probably pretty accurate, but you definitely won't know for sure. I know that when I'm dating, and let myself initially get put off, that person has zero chance of working his way back into my better graces. I'm too stubborn. So, I don't let myself think like that on a date. I have deal breakers, sure, but I have to stop myself right away when I start thinking "Ugh he is talking way too much about ________, and that is so lame." People aren't always their best on dates; they're nervous and not always acting like themselves. You could end up finding someone awesome when you give him more time to make a great impression!
posted by violetish at 6:22 PM on August 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm an INFP who felt similarly late blooming socially and the only way I could ever fathom getting into relationships was organically allowing friendships/neutral relationships (buddy from writing workshop, long-time roommate, guy who was just a study buddy in a college class, etc.) to turn into something more in their own time. I think other Mefites have described this too. I don't think there's anything wrong with dating, I just figure given my particular slow-to-unfurl-and-bond-but-once-happens-woo-boy defensive/wary type romantic personality the "someone you know for other neutral/safe reasons and grow to care for on your own schedule" works best. So maybe have other non-datey-from-the-get-go social spaces--pottery class, library volunteer, DJ at the local university FM station, go to big events your friends throw to meet their other friends, etc. and just keep living a full and open-hearted life and let it come on its own.
posted by ifjuly at 8:05 AM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by ifjuly at 8:05 AM on August 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
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I realize it still kind of sucks, though. (If it's any consolation, I'm facing the same thing.) But it is still ultimately good -- you have gotten more discerning about your partners.
Oh, and as for this:
I have strong feelings for two guy friends who are in serious relationships. I can't reproduce these feelings for available guys; why?!
Because the available guys you've thus far been meeting aren't like the two guy friends. You can't force yourself to "reproduce" a feeling -- all you can do is meet someone and see what happens.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on August 1, 2011