Dysfunctional potential homebuyers
July 31, 2011 1:00 PM Subscribe
We've outgrown our living space, but despite having the cash and flexibility to move tomorrow, are apparently unable to do so. Lengthy ridiculous details within.
Our family of four lives in a small 2BR apartment in a suburb. Our preschooler is sharing our bedroom. We don't have any space to have people over, which is more important than it might normally be because of a severe allergy situation that often precludes our visiting others. If we want to celebrate holidays with family, we need to host. So far our family (all of whom live in enormous houses with multiple living areas/guest rooms/etc) has bravely put up with the crammed-together folding chairs and turkey dinners balanced on laps and the plainly audible bathroom noises that arise from having the toilet 2 feet from the Christmas tree. The worst thing is this is all so unnecessary. We make plenty of money! We can easily get out of our lease! So why are we still here?
Here are the complicating factors:
1. Husband not really motivated to move. He agrees that our current situation is not optimal for the family, and nods his head when I bring up moving, but it's not a project he has any interest in spending his free time persuing. He was born and raised in a large city by lifelong renters, so is comfortable with small-space living and is generally skeptical of home ownership. Also, he travels very frequently (he's away about half the year in week-long stints), is often time-shifted (sleeping during the day, working at night), and his home office is walkable from our current place. He hates change of any kind.
2. Although not interested in moving, my husband has lots of opinions about how such a transaction should go down. For instance, he won't sign the visitor log at an open house, or does so in an intentionally illegible way because he doesn't want to set up any sort of association with the realtor. He is foursquare against using a realtor, insisting that the money that would be used to pay our side of the realtor's percentage should be negotiated off the purchase price. He has gotten into arguments at open houses about this, and I'm pretty sure he's known in our realty community as That Guy.
3. The only people he holds in greater suspicion and contempt than realtors are contractors, so he has refused to buy a house that would require any remodeling. We buy, we move in, that's it.
4. He will agree to moving only once. No starter homes, no moving to another rental unless I am willing to live in it forever.
5. I am not blameless here. I have been "looking" (going through trulia/zillow/realtor.com, visiting open houses) for five years and have seen exactly two houses I would be willing to buy. Part of this is that the effort of dragging my husband through the process is so immense that it needs to be a damn amazing house to be worth the hassle. The other part is that damn amazing houses are pretty thin on the ground here, unless your tastes run to million-dollar unrenovated 60s split levels.
Further, I am not a natural negotiator or dealmaker. I get incredibly stressed out at the thought of tangling with realtors in any capacity, let alone when operating under my husband's dictates while he is away traveling half the year.
And further yet, I'm pretty exhausted and depressed by the whole husband-always-gone, kids-always-with-me, hosting-every-occasion situation. Even though I know that things will never improve unless I step up, I am finding it difficult to gather the activation energy to find a house, wrangle my husband into it, and then accomplish the entire packing and moving phase by myself.
We have two ameliorating factors:
1. We don't need a mortgage.
2. We are currently renting, so can move anytime.
So how do we break out of this slough and actually move? Right now I only see two options: I nut up and figure out how to buy a house without a realtor or we enter some sort of therapy. Advice on either of these scenarios welcome, as are other ideas.
Anonymous because I don't want our dysfunctions linked to my across-the-web identity.
Our family of four lives in a small 2BR apartment in a suburb. Our preschooler is sharing our bedroom. We don't have any space to have people over, which is more important than it might normally be because of a severe allergy situation that often precludes our visiting others. If we want to celebrate holidays with family, we need to host. So far our family (all of whom live in enormous houses with multiple living areas/guest rooms/etc) has bravely put up with the crammed-together folding chairs and turkey dinners balanced on laps and the plainly audible bathroom noises that arise from having the toilet 2 feet from the Christmas tree. The worst thing is this is all so unnecessary. We make plenty of money! We can easily get out of our lease! So why are we still here?
Here are the complicating factors:
1. Husband not really motivated to move. He agrees that our current situation is not optimal for the family, and nods his head when I bring up moving, but it's not a project he has any interest in spending his free time persuing. He was born and raised in a large city by lifelong renters, so is comfortable with small-space living and is generally skeptical of home ownership. Also, he travels very frequently (he's away about half the year in week-long stints), is often time-shifted (sleeping during the day, working at night), and his home office is walkable from our current place. He hates change of any kind.
2. Although not interested in moving, my husband has lots of opinions about how such a transaction should go down. For instance, he won't sign the visitor log at an open house, or does so in an intentionally illegible way because he doesn't want to set up any sort of association with the realtor. He is foursquare against using a realtor, insisting that the money that would be used to pay our side of the realtor's percentage should be negotiated off the purchase price. He has gotten into arguments at open houses about this, and I'm pretty sure he's known in our realty community as That Guy.
3. The only people he holds in greater suspicion and contempt than realtors are contractors, so he has refused to buy a house that would require any remodeling. We buy, we move in, that's it.
4. He will agree to moving only once. No starter homes, no moving to another rental unless I am willing to live in it forever.
5. I am not blameless here. I have been "looking" (going through trulia/zillow/realtor.com, visiting open houses) for five years and have seen exactly two houses I would be willing to buy. Part of this is that the effort of dragging my husband through the process is so immense that it needs to be a damn amazing house to be worth the hassle. The other part is that damn amazing houses are pretty thin on the ground here, unless your tastes run to million-dollar unrenovated 60s split levels.
Further, I am not a natural negotiator or dealmaker. I get incredibly stressed out at the thought of tangling with realtors in any capacity, let alone when operating under my husband's dictates while he is away traveling half the year.
And further yet, I'm pretty exhausted and depressed by the whole husband-always-gone, kids-always-with-me, hosting-every-occasion situation. Even though I know that things will never improve unless I step up, I am finding it difficult to gather the activation energy to find a house, wrangle my husband into it, and then accomplish the entire packing and moving phase by myself.
We have two ameliorating factors:
1. We don't need a mortgage.
2. We are currently renting, so can move anytime.
So how do we break out of this slough and actually move? Right now I only see two options: I nut up and figure out how to buy a house without a realtor or we enter some sort of therapy. Advice on either of these scenarios welcome, as are other ideas.
Anonymous because I don't want our dysfunctions linked to my across-the-web identity.
Why not rent a bigger place?
posted by halogen at 1:10 PM on July 31, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by halogen at 1:10 PM on July 31, 2011 [4 favorites]
I feel for you. Seriously, in this situation I would ask either a close friend or sibling who enjoys real estate to actually step up and get a place for you. Give them an idea of what you want, what are dealbreakers and a price range. You can just show up and sign the contract. Shopping for a house is a huge emotional
deal, especially with a selfish partner who has set you up to fail on purpose. No home is ever 100% what you want but I bet someone else can get you about
75% there without you personally experiencing angst. Hire movers to do the packing and moving. You are lucky to have the money to solve the problem so use it I'd also eliminate your spouse from the decision-making since he refuses to be an adult and just tell him the move-in date.
posted by saucysault at 1:12 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
deal, especially with a selfish partner who has set you up to fail on purpose. No home is ever 100% what you want but I bet someone else can get you about
75% there without you personally experiencing angst. Hire movers to do the packing and moving. You are lucky to have the money to solve the problem so use it I'd also eliminate your spouse from the decision-making since he refuses to be an adult and just tell him the move-in date.
posted by saucysault at 1:12 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
Ask a close friend of your husband or family to help with finding a trustable realtor that your husband would personally like. Or alternatively search for a larger rental. The latter would be recommended if you have relationship issues to work through, because shared ownership will complicate resolution of any pending personal matters.
Also, find a home that does not need remodeling, or only renovation that yourself could do together with your husband.
Ignore your husband's comments that he will "only move once" and find a house suitable for bringing up your family during the next 10 years – as the children grow into teenagers and later students they will change the way the space is used, and both you and your husband may find a need for a new house when they move out.
posted by knz at 1:12 PM on July 31, 2011
Also, find a home that does not need remodeling, or only renovation that yourself could do together with your husband.
Ignore your husband's comments that he will "only move once" and find a house suitable for bringing up your family during the next 10 years – as the children grow into teenagers and later students they will change the way the space is used, and both you and your husband may find a need for a new house when they move out.
posted by knz at 1:12 PM on July 31, 2011
4. He will agree to moving only once. No starter homes, no moving to another rental unless I am willing to live in it forever.
The remainder of your points notwithstanding, your husband is unreasonable. My family has owned and rented several times. Each move was because we thought we had found The Perfect Place and, instead, found flaws we would have never noticed without actually living there for a year or more. Unless you have the financial ability to build the exact house you want, as well as the surrounding land (so that no "annoying neighbors" can intrude upon your space), you will very likely not find the perfect dwelling on the first try. Marriage is a two-way street and your husband should be willing to compromise with you to improve your family's living situation.
I write this as the husband who repeatedly did not want to move.
posted by fireoyster at 1:13 PM on July 31, 2011 [20 favorites]
The remainder of your points notwithstanding, your husband is unreasonable. My family has owned and rented several times. Each move was because we thought we had found The Perfect Place and, instead, found flaws we would have never noticed without actually living there for a year or more. Unless you have the financial ability to build the exact house you want, as well as the surrounding land (so that no "annoying neighbors" can intrude upon your space), you will very likely not find the perfect dwelling on the first try. Marriage is a two-way street and your husband should be willing to compromise with you to improve your family's living situation.
I write this as the husband who repeatedly did not want to move.
posted by fireoyster at 1:13 PM on July 31, 2011 [20 favorites]
"...as well as buy the surrounding land..."
posted by fireoyster at 1:14 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by fireoyster at 1:14 PM on July 31, 2011
It's certainly possible to buy a house without a buyer's agent, but if you find a house that you want that's already got a seller's agent attached, you can't one-sidedly detach that agent from the seller—they're on a contract. Which could be broken by either party, but seriously, if I were selling a house, and someone came to me and said "I'll buy your house, but only if you break your contract with your agent, A) I'd be naturally suspicious, and B) I think I might be creating legal exposure for myself—I think that if the realtor perceived that I had cut her out of the deal so I could negotiate a better deal with you, she could sue me. So, not an appealing option for me.
It sounds almost as if the only way this is going to happen is if you spring it on your husband as a fait accompli (which would be difficult) and if he'd be cool with that (which sounds unlikely). Perhaps if your apartment burns down.
posted by adamrice at 1:15 PM on July 31, 2011
It sounds almost as if the only way this is going to happen is if you spring it on your husband as a fait accompli (which would be difficult) and if he'd be cool with that (which sounds unlikely). Perhaps if your apartment burns down.
posted by adamrice at 1:15 PM on July 31, 2011
I don't understand why, if you will have to do ALL the work, your husband gets to put a bunch of conditions on the move. Could you "nut up" and tell him that since you have to do all the work (find the house, pack, move, unpack, etc.) AND since living in the small apartment affects you to a much greater degree than it does him that you are going to purchase a house without trying to kowtow to his ridiculous conditions?
On preview, I like what saucysalt has to say. Get some help, get it done, and let him know when you're moving and where the new place is. He's ignoring your needs and the needs of your children because the situation does not affect him in the same way it affects you.
Marriage counseling is probably a good idea, particularly if this is reflective of a pattern of putting his needs before yours.
posted by jeoc at 1:17 PM on July 31, 2011 [21 favorites]
On preview, I like what saucysalt has to say. Get some help, get it done, and let him know when you're moving and where the new place is. He's ignoring your needs and the needs of your children because the situation does not affect him in the same way it affects you.
Marriage counseling is probably a good idea, particularly if this is reflective of a pattern of putting his needs before yours.
posted by jeoc at 1:17 PM on July 31, 2011 [21 favorites]
Yeah, it seems like there's two issues here: whether to move to a bigger place and whether to buy a home. While answering the latter in the affirmative would also answer the former in the affirmative, the inverse of this isn't necessarily true. Would your husband be resistant to moving to a larger apartment and then buying a house later on? Or would his (frankly unreasonable) demand about moving only once preclude this?
posted by Johnny Assay at 1:25 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by Johnny Assay at 1:25 PM on July 31, 2011
Blergh. There will be no real estate agents your husband likes.
I'm sorry the world doesn't function in a way he's happy with but that doesn't change the way the world works. He is literally acting like a two year old. He's gone half the year, so the fact that you have 4 people in a 2-bed house you can't accommodate your lifestyle in doesn't bother him. But it isn't just him, cupcake. Your needs for workable housing are every bit as important as his needs to not be bothered. The needs of the kids moreso.
So, since he is behaving like a two year old, treat him like one. Get a list of his criteria - no remodel, close to office, whatever. Narrow houses down to two choices and ask him to choose one. If he won't, choose for him. And if he's refusing to participate in a way that is constructive, you are well within your rights to engage a buyer's agent to work with you on this.
On preview, what joec said.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:28 PM on July 31, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm sorry the world doesn't function in a way he's happy with but that doesn't change the way the world works. He is literally acting like a two year old. He's gone half the year, so the fact that you have 4 people in a 2-bed house you can't accommodate your lifestyle in doesn't bother him. But it isn't just him, cupcake. Your needs for workable housing are every bit as important as his needs to not be bothered. The needs of the kids moreso.
So, since he is behaving like a two year old, treat him like one. Get a list of his criteria - no remodel, close to office, whatever. Narrow houses down to two choices and ask him to choose one. If he won't, choose for him. And if he's refusing to participate in a way that is constructive, you are well within your rights to engage a buyer's agent to work with you on this.
On preview, what joec said.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:28 PM on July 31, 2011 [5 favorites]
If you buy a house you will have maintenance and repair issues no matter what. Either you'll have to do the repairs yourself or hire someone. If your absent husband will block this, and you aren't personally going to be excited to be clearing gutters, fixing toilets, repairing drywall, etc -- don't buy a house with him.
Find a bigger place to rent. That way you save yourself all the heartache of buying, in a crummy market, and you continue not having to worry about (or fight about) maintenance.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:30 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
Find a bigger place to rent. That way you save yourself all the heartache of buying, in a crummy market, and you continue not having to worry about (or fight about) maintenance.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:30 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
So how do we break out of this slough and actually move? Right now I only see two options: I nut up and figure out how to buy a house without a realtor or we enter some sort of therapy. Advice on either of these scenarios welcome, as are other ideas.
If you want to buy a house, you will have to nut up. Your husband isn't going to change decades of conditioning regarding his personal/financial lifestyle just because you guys went to a few therapy sessions. Whether your husband is being "unreasonable" or not is besides the point. He was raised with certain expectations and values, got married with those expectations and values in mind, and isn't going to change. What is unreasonable is that you guys need more space and can't go on like this.
Is anyone in your family a better negotiator? You might want to bring that relative into it, who can psychologically handle dealing with a real estate agent, negotiate a good price (good enough that it "looks" like you've negotiated money down that would otherwise go to the realtor), and pay in cash.
Otherwise, renting a bigger place isn't such a bad idea.
posted by deanc at 1:31 PM on July 31, 2011
If you want to buy a house, you will have to nut up. Your husband isn't going to change decades of conditioning regarding his personal/financial lifestyle just because you guys went to a few therapy sessions. Whether your husband is being "unreasonable" or not is besides the point. He was raised with certain expectations and values, got married with those expectations and values in mind, and isn't going to change. What is unreasonable is that you guys need more space and can't go on like this.
Is anyone in your family a better negotiator? You might want to bring that relative into it, who can psychologically handle dealing with a real estate agent, negotiate a good price (good enough that it "looks" like you've negotiated money down that would otherwise go to the realtor), and pay in cash.
Otherwise, renting a bigger place isn't such a bad idea.
posted by deanc at 1:31 PM on July 31, 2011
What is unreasonable is that you guys need more space and can't go on like this.
What I meant was that it's unreasonable to live under your conditions when you clearly need more space. That can be changed. Your husband, however, cannot.
posted by deanc at 1:31 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
What I meant was that it's unreasonable to live under your conditions when you clearly need more space. That can be changed. Your husband, however, cannot.
posted by deanc at 1:31 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
If the fact that you are profoundly unhappy with the status quo hasn't lit a fire under your husband, then you need to add more fuel to that fire. Plan a vacation by yourself, and before you leave tell him that you are 100% unsatisfied with a) your living situation and b) his participation in making this change, and that he needs to consider what he may be giving up by not taking your happiness seriously.
A few days alone with the kids with this on his mind should jump-start his imagination quite nicely, and when you get back he will (or at least, he'd better) have something new to say about all this, or you will at the very least wind up having a very frank talk about what comes next.
posted by hermitosis at 1:32 PM on July 31, 2011 [20 favorites]
A few days alone with the kids with this on his mind should jump-start his imagination quite nicely, and when you get back he will (or at least, he'd better) have something new to say about all this, or you will at the very least wind up having a very frank talk about what comes next.
posted by hermitosis at 1:32 PM on July 31, 2011 [20 favorites]
Assuming that they operate in your metropolitan area, would your husband consider Redfin as a compromise on the no-realtor position?
posted by Wavelet at 1:32 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by Wavelet at 1:32 PM on July 31, 2011
Would the husband providing the means to purchase without the need for a mortgage change anything? I don't know if this is the case, but I'm curious.
posted by Nihil at 1:34 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by Nihil at 1:34 PM on July 31, 2011
And further yet, I'm pretty exhausted and depressed by the whole husband-always-gone, kids-always-with-me, hosting-every-occasion situation. Even though I know that things will never improve unless I step up, I am finding it difficult to gather the activation energy to find a house, wrangle my husband into it, and then accomplish the entire packing and moving phase by myself.
Does your husband know this? I don't necessarily think that you need to "step up" alone and without any support. Your husband's reluctance to trust real estate agents and to move is quite understandable, but only if he's ignorant of how you actually feel about the situation. I hope that he would be willing to help you find a house if he truly understood how exhausting the current situation is for you. Is it possible to have some further discussion with him so he can understand how you feel about the current situation and how it needs to change? If he realizes that the long term health and happiness benefits for you overweigh the financial "rip-off" that he thinks real estate agents are maybe he would be willing to be more flexible.
Maybe I'm just naive about the ability of your husband to change but my optimistic side believes that one can change their opinions if they see it from a different side. From the financial side I also hate dealing with real estate agents and moving, but if I knew that my wife would be immensely happier, I would be willing to work with her because her happiness is more important to me than money.
posted by ajackson at 1:36 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Does your husband know this? I don't necessarily think that you need to "step up" alone and without any support. Your husband's reluctance to trust real estate agents and to move is quite understandable, but only if he's ignorant of how you actually feel about the situation. I hope that he would be willing to help you find a house if he truly understood how exhausting the current situation is for you. Is it possible to have some further discussion with him so he can understand how you feel about the current situation and how it needs to change? If he realizes that the long term health and happiness benefits for you overweigh the financial "rip-off" that he thinks real estate agents are maybe he would be willing to be more flexible.
Maybe I'm just naive about the ability of your husband to change but my optimistic side believes that one can change their opinions if they see it from a different side. From the financial side I also hate dealing with real estate agents and moving, but if I knew that my wife would be immensely happier, I would be willing to work with her because her happiness is more important to me than money.
posted by ajackson at 1:36 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your husband's fourth condition (complicating factor #4) is beyond silly and not remotely realistic unless you, your husband, and your children all agree and have the power to freeze yourselves as you are right now in time. Honestly, a huge decision like buying a house or moving is subject to so many nuanced and even unknown factors that to add the pressure of finding The Until Death House is total groundless sabotage. You know your husband, but I would ignore his fourth condition as sheer lunacy right now.
I was going to suggest getting some help finding a place (yes, that's what realtors actually DO for a living) and then, like DarlingBri suggested, narrow to two and give him the choice. Prior to preview, I thought maybe narrow to three, like House Hunters, but like House Hunters, after he has seen all three, you sign on one. Period. If he refuses to choose, pick one yourself and close. You and your kids are in need of space, even if he isn't. Bear in mind that renting a place allows for more financial flexibility.
It's an anxiety-ridden decision because it's kinda huge, but really it's terribly exciting and can be a ton of fun to unpack and set up in a new place. Good luck!
posted by Jezebella at 1:40 PM on July 31, 2011
I was going to suggest getting some help finding a place (yes, that's what realtors actually DO for a living) and then, like DarlingBri suggested, narrow to two and give him the choice. Prior to preview, I thought maybe narrow to three, like House Hunters, but like House Hunters, after he has seen all three, you sign on one. Period. If he refuses to choose, pick one yourself and close. You and your kids are in need of space, even if he isn't. Bear in mind that renting a place allows for more financial flexibility.
It's an anxiety-ridden decision because it's kinda huge, but really it's terribly exciting and can be a ton of fun to unpack and set up in a new place. Good luck!
posted by Jezebella at 1:40 PM on July 31, 2011
Would the husband providing the means to purchase without the need for a mortgage change anything?
The husband didn't do that alone. There would be no way for him to work a job that has him traveling half the year if he didn't have a spouse who raised his children while he was away. In that way, they are a team. However, I think that's a good guess as to what his argument is, and anon, if that's his argument (that it's his money and so his say in the matter is more important than yours) you want couples therapy before thinking about buying a house.
posted by Houstonian at 1:46 PM on July 31, 2011 [8 favorites]
The husband didn't do that alone. There would be no way for him to work a job that has him traveling half the year if he didn't have a spouse who raised his children while he was away. In that way, they are a team. However, I think that's a good guess as to what his argument is, and anon, if that's his argument (that it's his money and so his say in the matter is more important than yours) you want couples therapy before thinking about buying a house.
posted by Houstonian at 1:46 PM on July 31, 2011 [8 favorites]
It sounds like your husband just needs you to get a great deal. Try Craigslist. Homeowners do sell directly, without agents, on Craigslist. Also, I bought my present home without an agent. I wasn't looking for a home. I didn't have a realtor. I just stumbled upon it and found out from the homeowner, who we approached directly, that he had just listed it. We discussed with him the possibility of him pulling it off the market, in an effort to save him and us money. He did. He got out of the contract with his realtor. In the end, he saved money; we saved money. Also, my sister got her house without a realtor, simply by putting the word out that she was in the market. Ultimately, her cleaning lady gave her the tip of a home that she eventually purchased and still lives in today.
Consider buying a home out of foreclosure, on the courthouse steps. Another friend I know just got a deeply discounted home when the buyer defaulted -- my friend had been tracking the house and when he found out from the listing agent the buyer was defaulting, he offered 80,000 or so less than the asking price, and got it.
I presume you're buying this with cash, since you won't need a mortgage. This gives you even more leverage to cut an excellent deal.
One thing about homes -- they really are money pits. What Joec said is true. There are always things that need to be handled around homes, and if your husband isn't handy, then you'll have to find someone who is (but handy dude does not necessarily mean contractor). That said, if you buy smart, over time you do build equity and increase the value of your investment.
As for staying until death, forget about it. If you want to move on after the kids move out, then split. Leave him in the house until he dies. Use the years between now and when the kids are grown to set yourself up for that possibility. Life without change is unhealthy. And such unreasonable demands and restrictions are, as well.
posted by zagyzebra at 1:53 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Consider buying a home out of foreclosure, on the courthouse steps. Another friend I know just got a deeply discounted home when the buyer defaulted -- my friend had been tracking the house and when he found out from the listing agent the buyer was defaulting, he offered 80,000 or so less than the asking price, and got it.
I presume you're buying this with cash, since you won't need a mortgage. This gives you even more leverage to cut an excellent deal.
One thing about homes -- they really are money pits. What Joec said is true. There are always things that need to be handled around homes, and if your husband isn't handy, then you'll have to find someone who is (but handy dude does not necessarily mean contractor). That said, if you buy smart, over time you do build equity and increase the value of your investment.
As for staying until death, forget about it. If you want to move on after the kids move out, then split. Leave him in the house until he dies. Use the years between now and when the kids are grown to set yourself up for that possibility. Life without change is unhealthy. And such unreasonable demands and restrictions are, as well.
posted by zagyzebra at 1:53 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Signing your name at an open house can be viewed as a contract with a Realtor, so your husband is in the right there. (info from a dear friend who is a real estate agent)
It sounds to me as if your husband is throwing up barriers because he is really not invested in the change. It's a negative for him, and you need to make your needs more of a priority for him in some way. That might help him become more supportive.
posted by annsunny at 2:29 PM on July 31, 2011
It sounds to me as if your husband is throwing up barriers because he is really not invested in the change. It's a negative for him, and you need to make your needs more of a priority for him in some way. That might help him become more supportive.
posted by annsunny at 2:29 PM on July 31, 2011
FWIW, while I know buying for keeps isn't common, it is possible to buy a house for keeps. Not everyone is interested in the property ladder and it is OK to think like your husband and utterly reject the idea of "trading up" or whatever. Some people never need to relocate, either. We bought our tiny 500 sq foot house with the intention of being carried out by undertakers, and so far it is working out that way. I realise it may not always, but grandma is up the road, 70 years in the only house she's ever owned. It can happen.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:37 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 2:37 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
My professional opinion speaking as a real estate broker who has worked with countless couples? You need a marriage counselor, not a realtor. Your husband is being selfish, self-centered and ignoring the needs of his wife and children, needs which will only grow as your children grow.
Oh, and about the idea of finding something on your own and then corralling your husband into moving with you? Sorry, but ain't gonna happen, full stop. I've dealt — more than once — with couples where one half didn't want to sell/buy, and each and every time he/she found a way to kill the transaction.
Lastly, home ownership is a big responsibility and stressor; under no circumstance would I proceed with this unless my other half were equally willing and committed.
posted by braemar at 2:39 PM on July 31, 2011 [16 favorites]
Oh, and about the idea of finding something on your own and then corralling your husband into moving with you? Sorry, but ain't gonna happen, full stop. I've dealt — more than once — with couples where one half didn't want to sell/buy, and each and every time he/she found a way to kill the transaction.
Lastly, home ownership is a big responsibility and stressor; under no circumstance would I proceed with this unless my other half were equally willing and committed.
posted by braemar at 2:39 PM on July 31, 2011 [16 favorites]
2nding counseling. You're exhausted and depressed. Your husband has whatever opinions he has about the situation. From your point of view (and by extension ours) he appears way unreasonable and ridiculous. You two have to find some common ground here. Would he be amenable to asking for some outside help so you two can work this issue out?
posted by pupstocks at 2:46 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by pupstocks at 2:46 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
I had an entire comment written about house purchase strategies, but I cannot recommend you buy a house with this person at this time. The inability of you two to solve this problem together is a fundamental dysfunction of the relationship, one which will likely come up again at other critical junctures. You are very smart to list therapy as one of your two options. The other option -- buy without a realtor -- is likely as hard as you think, harder with the conditions that your husband is setting, so I'd take that off the table.
You also omitted the idea of establishing your own #1, 2, 3, 4 from you to your husband. A counter-offer, if you will. (Such as: 1. We need to be out of here in nine months. You can make this move happen your way, or I can do it my way. My way is: 2. I want to purchase and cannot do it on my own. Either you help with tasks like drafting offer letters and purchase contracts, or I will engage the services of a realtor or attorney to help me. 3. I cannot agree we will never move again. If we boost our purchase budget to $1 million, I can guarantee we won't move within X years due to dissatisfaction with any feature of the house known at the time of purchase.)
It's not necessarily even the case that you'd save money by not using a realtor. A realtor could help you act quickly enough to catch the best deal. The financial difference between catching a good deal or not is much more than 3%.
And I'm a total internet jackass for saying this, but considering your level of happiness and well-being, the way your needs are being treated here, and your apparent negotiating position with your husband, I'd sock away a good $10k or so for an attorney should the need for one ever arise. It sounds like you get screwed when you try to negotiate with him yourself. Sorry. Hopefully I'm laughably off-base. You can use that money when you move together to your retirement home. :)
posted by salvia at 2:47 PM on July 31, 2011 [6 favorites]
You also omitted the idea of establishing your own #1, 2, 3, 4 from you to your husband. A counter-offer, if you will. (Such as: 1. We need to be out of here in nine months. You can make this move happen your way, or I can do it my way. My way is: 2. I want to purchase and cannot do it on my own. Either you help with tasks like drafting offer letters and purchase contracts, or I will engage the services of a realtor or attorney to help me. 3. I cannot agree we will never move again. If we boost our purchase budget to $1 million, I can guarantee we won't move within X years due to dissatisfaction with any feature of the house known at the time of purchase.)
It's not necessarily even the case that you'd save money by not using a realtor. A realtor could help you act quickly enough to catch the best deal. The financial difference between catching a good deal or not is much more than 3%.
And I'm a total internet jackass for saying this, but considering your level of happiness and well-being, the way your needs are being treated here, and your apparent negotiating position with your husband, I'd sock away a good $10k or so for an attorney should the need for one ever arise. It sounds like you get screwed when you try to negotiate with him yourself. Sorry. Hopefully I'm laughably off-base. You can use that money when you move together to your retirement home. :)
posted by salvia at 2:47 PM on July 31, 2011 [6 favorites]
I think, under the circumstances, that you what would be best for you is to rent the biggest townhouse/apartment house available near his work, if there is such a thing there. You do not need to be saddled with all the problems that any house has when you are the only one to take care of it, and take care of your children and husband at the same time.
Less stress for you, that's what you need. Get a beautiful townhouse if you can, with a nice courtyard of grass that your children can run around in, etc. Hopefully that will make your life easier, because then you can just call the maintenance dept. when something breaks, and the men there will fix it for you, no charge. :)
posted by minx at 2:56 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Less stress for you, that's what you need. Get a beautiful townhouse if you can, with a nice courtyard of grass that your children can run around in, etc. Hopefully that will make your life easier, because then you can just call the maintenance dept. when something breaks, and the men there will fix it for you, no charge. :)
posted by minx at 2:56 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
This doesn't help with the emotional issues at play here, but you should definitely hire movers. Start weeding stuff out NOW - a small box a week, or a closet a week, that kind of thing. You can hire folks who will pack AND move your stuff. Make a place in your garage or basement for "give away" and "sell". Have one garage sale or just sell the top 5 or 6 big things, and give the rest away. If you have a bunch of furniture to donate, many charities will send a truck to your door. Do this 3 weeks before moving.
Pre-buy your moving boxes online - Uline has great moving packages! Go around the house with a sticky pad, labeling everything with the name of the room in its NEW location, i.e. small bedroom 2nd floor. In your kitchen, label things according to contents: pots, spices, etc.
Make one "go box" with lightbulbs, toilet paper, snacks, towels, sheets, exacto knives, and any medical necessities. That box goes with YOU.
Set up the packers, and make sure they label everything with 1) your name 2) the room it WILL go in 3) piece of furniture it goes (if necessary). Ask a sister or friend to be with you the day of the move to help direct traffic.
You shouldn't have to do it alone, but if you do, this is the way to go. We couldn't really even afford it but I'll never move without movers again.
Your husband has set you up to fail here. He's not on YOUR team. If he has such ridiculous stipulations, then he needs to take a few months off work and do the legwork himself.
Will your husband freak out every time you have to call a plumber or electrician or landscape helper? Is he just panicked at the thought of responsibility? There is something more than "hates change and hates real estate agents." I mean, nobody really ever loves the hassles of moving or knowing how to deal with real estate folks, but seriously, he has to grow up.
posted by barnone at 3:04 PM on July 31, 2011 [4 favorites]
Pre-buy your moving boxes online - Uline has great moving packages! Go around the house with a sticky pad, labeling everything with the name of the room in its NEW location, i.e. small bedroom 2nd floor. In your kitchen, label things according to contents: pots, spices, etc.
Make one "go box" with lightbulbs, toilet paper, snacks, towels, sheets, exacto knives, and any medical necessities. That box goes with YOU.
Set up the packers, and make sure they label everything with 1) your name 2) the room it WILL go in 3) piece of furniture it goes (if necessary). Ask a sister or friend to be with you the day of the move to help direct traffic.
You shouldn't have to do it alone, but if you do, this is the way to go. We couldn't really even afford it but I'll never move without movers again.
Your husband has set you up to fail here. He's not on YOUR team. If he has such ridiculous stipulations, then he needs to take a few months off work and do the legwork himself.
Will your husband freak out every time you have to call a plumber or electrician or landscape helper? Is he just panicked at the thought of responsibility? There is something more than "hates change and hates real estate agents." I mean, nobody really ever loves the hassles of moving or knowing how to deal with real estate folks, but seriously, he has to grow up.
posted by barnone at 3:04 PM on July 31, 2011 [4 favorites]
You could bring a good camera with you when you go look at properties and take tons of photos for your husband to judge from without having to follow you; sooner or later he will give in and actually come see one.
posted by 3mendo at 3:08 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by 3mendo at 3:08 PM on July 31, 2011
Nthing that an obvious solution seems to be finding a larger rental, given his discomfort with home ownership. I pulled out a few snippets to illustrate some reasons he might consider easing up on his conditions.
He was born and raised in a large city by lifelong renters, so is comfortable with small-space living and is generally skeptical of home ownership."
-- Did his parents and the other lifelong renters he knew growing up live in just the same apartment throughout their entire marriage? Did his parents share a room with the kids? (What's the long term plans for that, by the way?)
Also, he travels very frequently (he's away about half the year in week-long stints), is often time-shifted (sleeping during the day, working at night), and his home office is walkable from our current place."
-- His relationship to the space of your apartment is COMPLETELY different than yours. I think it's easy to imagine that if you spent half of your weeks away, you'd not mind coming home to a cozy little apartment, and if your awake hours in that apartment were while everyone else slept, you'd not feel cramped in the small space.
Now, he can either literally or figuratively walk a mile in your shoes, but he needs to consider what your life is like day-to-day right now. And forgive me for making some personal assumptions, but this all has to be hard on your marriage and your sex life -- it sounds like you don't have a moment alone with him, either.
He hates change of any kind.
-- What. He has two children.
He will agree to moving only once. No starter homes, no moving to another rental unless I am willing to live in it forever."
-- You can look for an apartment with this intention in mind. Obviously, there are no absolute hard-and-fast guarantees on anything in life, but you can plan for what's within your control and stick to your priorities when the inevitable curveballs happen.
And hang on...what's this about his home office being walkable from your apartment? I'm maybe a little confused since you say that he often works time-shifted. Do you mean the home office for his company, or does he have another space he uses for working "from home?" If the latter, his home office could be down-the-hallway walkable in a larger apartment.
posted by desuetude at 3:17 PM on July 31, 2011
He was born and raised in a large city by lifelong renters, so is comfortable with small-space living and is generally skeptical of home ownership."
-- Did his parents and the other lifelong renters he knew growing up live in just the same apartment throughout their entire marriage? Did his parents share a room with the kids? (What's the long term plans for that, by the way?)
Also, he travels very frequently (he's away about half the year in week-long stints), is often time-shifted (sleeping during the day, working at night), and his home office is walkable from our current place."
-- His relationship to the space of your apartment is COMPLETELY different than yours. I think it's easy to imagine that if you spent half of your weeks away, you'd not mind coming home to a cozy little apartment, and if your awake hours in that apartment were while everyone else slept, you'd not feel cramped in the small space.
Now, he can either literally or figuratively walk a mile in your shoes, but he needs to consider what your life is like day-to-day right now. And forgive me for making some personal assumptions, but this all has to be hard on your marriage and your sex life -- it sounds like you don't have a moment alone with him, either.
He hates change of any kind.
-- What. He has two children.
He will agree to moving only once. No starter homes, no moving to another rental unless I am willing to live in it forever."
-- You can look for an apartment with this intention in mind. Obviously, there are no absolute hard-and-fast guarantees on anything in life, but you can plan for what's within your control and stick to your priorities when the inevitable curveballs happen.
And hang on...what's this about his home office being walkable from your apartment? I'm maybe a little confused since you say that he often works time-shifted. Do you mean the home office for his company, or does he have another space he uses for working "from home?" If the latter, his home office could be down-the-hallway walkable in a larger apartment.
posted by desuetude at 3:17 PM on July 31, 2011
Signing your name at an open house can be viewed as a contract with a Realtor, so your husband is in the right there. (info from a dear friend who is a real estate agent)
Wait, what? A contract to do what exactly? This sounds evil and wrong.
posted by emjaybee at 3:21 PM on July 31, 2011
Wait, what? A contract to do what exactly? This sounds evil and wrong.
posted by emjaybee at 3:21 PM on July 31, 2011
Your stated reasons for wanting to buy house don't sound very compelling to me. Cramped holidays and hearing bathroom noises near the christmas tree? You say your husband agrees that the situation is not optimal, which suggests that your conversations are about the costs and benefits of buying and moving vs. not buying and staying. If your reasons for wanting to buy a house are truly about costs vs. benefits, then there should be no problem here. Your case for buying is not very strong, and you should have realized that by now and accepted that, by your own evaluation of the situation, it does not require immediate action.
The fact that it is still a problem for you suggests that it's not about costs and benefits, there are probably emotional reasons that you aren't mentioning - possibly connected to having relatives with "enormous houses with multiple living areas/guest rooms/etc" even though you make plenty of money.
Regardless of what it is, its difficult to drag your husband to marriage counseling because he's being insensitive to your emotional needs if you actually aren't communicating them with him, and instead choosing to frame them as pragmatic, utilitarian issues.
Maybe you are afraid of being vulnerable, and maybe he's doing things that are contributing to that? OK - but I don't think you can fault him for not reading your mind, especially if you are systematically (but unconsciously) misleading him about what is really at stake for you.
By all means go to counseling. I just wouldn't go in assuming that he's the one with the problem here.
posted by AlsoMike at 3:32 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
The fact that it is still a problem for you suggests that it's not about costs and benefits, there are probably emotional reasons that you aren't mentioning - possibly connected to having relatives with "enormous houses with multiple living areas/guest rooms/etc" even though you make plenty of money.
Regardless of what it is, its difficult to drag your husband to marriage counseling because he's being insensitive to your emotional needs if you actually aren't communicating them with him, and instead choosing to frame them as pragmatic, utilitarian issues.
Maybe you are afraid of being vulnerable, and maybe he's doing things that are contributing to that? OK - but I don't think you can fault him for not reading your mind, especially if you are systematically (but unconsciously) misleading him about what is really at stake for you.
By all means go to counseling. I just wouldn't go in assuming that he's the one with the problem here.
posted by AlsoMike at 3:32 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Our preschooler is sharing our bedroom.
This situation must change, for the health of your marriage and your child. You simply cannot allow this to continue. The rest of your post is just icing on the cake.
Is there any chance that this sleeping arrangement--and balking about moving and maybe even the work schedule/constant travel--is all about avoiding intimacy? Nthing marriage counseling.
posted by carmicha at 3:40 PM on July 31, 2011
This situation must change, for the health of your marriage and your child. You simply cannot allow this to continue. The rest of your post is just icing on the cake.
Is there any chance that this sleeping arrangement--and balking about moving and maybe even the work schedule/constant travel--is all about avoiding intimacy? Nthing marriage counseling.
posted by carmicha at 3:40 PM on July 31, 2011
Chiming in on the suggestion to find a bigger, nicer rental near his work. Make sure there's a room for everyone and room for entertaining and something nice for you--a pool? A gym? Washer/dryer in the unit? Friend nearby?Tell him it's forever. It may not be forever but once you've accommodated his demands (and gotten something for yourself too), see if it changes his or your mind about home ownership. Some people may be happy with a rental. Some people might get the itch to put their rent into a mortgage.
By the way, I am a happy renter/former homeowner. Like other's have mentioned, home ownership can by stressful especially if the place needs work or you have crappy neighbors (both in our case). I was not in the position of "doing it all" myself and we still found it stressful. We sold our place and found a rental with a good school nearby and I consider it the best move we've made.
posted by hellochula at 4:05 PM on July 31, 2011
By the way, I am a happy renter/former homeowner. Like other's have mentioned, home ownership can by stressful especially if the place needs work or you have crappy neighbors (both in our case). I was not in the position of "doing it all" myself and we still found it stressful. We sold our place and found a rental with a good school nearby and I consider it the best move we've made.
posted by hellochula at 4:05 PM on July 31, 2011
emjaybee, It can be seen as a contract to do business with that real estate agent. Some less-than ethical agents will hold people to this, but the contract is limited to 6 months, I think (at least around here). It's not like they won't let you look at the house without signing in.
posted by annsunny at 4:05 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by annsunny at 4:05 PM on July 31, 2011
>If you are in the suburbs can't you rent a house? I don't think it's unreasonable for your husband to be uninterested in owning a home.
Good point, except the OP's husband has this stipulation:
4. He will agree to moving only once. No starter homes, no moving to another rental unless I am willing to live in it forever.
Myself, I would find it quite daunting to look for a rental property if it were incumbent upon me to find the permanently perfect living situation.
posted by virago at 4:52 PM on July 31, 2011
Good point, except the OP's husband has this stipulation:
4. He will agree to moving only once. No starter homes, no moving to another rental unless I am willing to live in it forever.
Myself, I would find it quite daunting to look for a rental property if it were incumbent upon me to find the permanently perfect living situation.
posted by virago at 4:52 PM on July 31, 2011
Seconding rainydayfilms. I've bought three houses--one in New York and two in Maryland--and have never paid commission to either my agent or the seller's agent. Of course, the price I paid reflected that someone was skimming a commission off the top (usually 6%--3% to each agent), but in my experience it's the seller's sale revenue that actually gets portioned out for this.
Also seconding whoever it was that said to hire movers. There's no need to for you to pack a THING beyond a "first night box" with light bulbs, bedding, toilet paper, etc. They'll show up and box up every damn thing in the place. Even a full ashtray. I threw a going away party the night before I moved out of my first house. The movers showed up in the morning and they packed while I cleaned up from the party. We were gone by 5pm.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 4:54 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also seconding whoever it was that said to hire movers. There's no need to for you to pack a THING beyond a "first night box" with light bulbs, bedding, toilet paper, etc. They'll show up and box up every damn thing in the place. Even a full ashtray. I threw a going away party the night before I moved out of my first house. The movers showed up in the morning and they packed while I cleaned up from the party. We were gone by 5pm.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 4:54 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your stated reasons for wanting to buy house don't sound very compelling to me. Cramped holidays and hearing bathroom noises near the christmas tree?
As someone living in less than thousand square feet with two adults, one teen, one child and a toddler ... the lack of physical space and the complete inability to retreat for a moment's peace anywhere are a form of torture. She is describing a prison cell, one where she has to share her cell-bed with another adult and a preschooler. Overcrowding is a real concern for the preservation for mental health. Imagine never having a moment to yourself, to masturbate, to dream, to just collect your thoughts. Of course the OP will be constantly overwhelmed and unable to think about making long terms plans to move or improve her situation because right now her life is probably constantly reacting to small immediate crisis alone (both physically and mentally) with no sanctuary. And having her husband play the role of the neediest self-absorbed toddler is adding to her distress.
posted by saucysault at 5:11 PM on July 31, 2011 [8 favorites]
As someone living in less than thousand square feet with two adults, one teen, one child and a toddler ... the lack of physical space and the complete inability to retreat for a moment's peace anywhere are a form of torture. She is describing a prison cell, one where she has to share her cell-bed with another adult and a preschooler. Overcrowding is a real concern for the preservation for mental health. Imagine never having a moment to yourself, to masturbate, to dream, to just collect your thoughts. Of course the OP will be constantly overwhelmed and unable to think about making long terms plans to move or improve her situation because right now her life is probably constantly reacting to small immediate crisis alone (both physically and mentally) with no sanctuary. And having her husband play the role of the neediest self-absorbed toddler is adding to her distress.
posted by saucysault at 5:11 PM on July 31, 2011 [8 favorites]
She is describing a prison cell...
Is she? In her words, she's concerned about the inconveniencing her holiday guests.
She may very well feel that she's living in a prison cell. I think she should mention that to her husband.
posted by AlsoMike at 5:23 PM on July 31, 2011
Is she? In her words, she's concerned about the inconveniencing her holiday guests.
She may very well feel that she's living in a prison cell. I think she should mention that to her husband.
posted by AlsoMike at 5:23 PM on July 31, 2011
She and her husband are sharing their bedroom with a toddler (I assume the two kids are of different sexes, and so can't share a bedroom). And this is going to continue indefinitely, since her husband doesn't want to move, ever.
It sounds like they don't need to buy, necessarily, but that they do need 3 bedrooms and more space: ie, a house.
posted by jrochest at 5:30 PM on July 31, 2011
It sounds like they don't need to buy, necessarily, but that they do need 3 bedrooms and more space: ie, a house.
posted by jrochest at 5:30 PM on July 31, 2011
The husband knows the seller pays but wants to use that savings to them to negotiate a lower price.
On second read, I'm thinking there's a chance this is manageable. Well... no. Given that you're depressed (and that you're a first-time buyer), you'd have to have support from a realtor or similar (would he feel differently about using an attorney?). And nobody can be certain they'll never move again. So no, again, under your husband's conditions, I still think it's impossible.
posted by salvia at 7:15 PM on July 31, 2011
On second read, I'm thinking there's a chance this is manageable. Well... no. Given that you're depressed (and that you're a first-time buyer), you'd have to have support from a realtor or similar (would he feel differently about using an attorney?). And nobody can be certain they'll never move again. So no, again, under your husband's conditions, I still think it's impossible.
posted by salvia at 7:15 PM on July 31, 2011
If you have the means to pick up and buy a house without a mortgage, it is absolutely insane for you to be forced to continue living in quarters so cramped that you have to share a bedroom with a non-infant child. I love Hermitosis' suggestion - take a vacation alone and let your husband spend some time dealing with the reality of the situation. If he can't see what's going on after that, it's time to consider some kind of counseling. You should not have to deal with this.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:26 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:26 PM on July 31, 2011
Realtors show houses. So that's pretty much a given. I thought sellers paid the commission (?) So that's pretty much a bumbly objection right there, husband.
While he's out of town, go see some houses, pick one, and tell him this is it, we are moving here. If it needs to be fixed up and/or remodeled, do the same thing later. He's out of town a lot, right? Just do it. Why in the hell do you need his permission to move and make your space right for your family?
It's pretty much impossible for you to go look at houses and NOT deal with a real estate agent.
So your choices are:
- Do nothing and continue to be frustrated and unhappy
- Do what you want and go pick out a house.
When your husband complains about realtors, laugh and say, "Oh John, you're so funny. That's why I love you so much."
As we used to say in the corporate world, "Act now, apologize later."
My husband is a wonderful guy. But he's not always full of the ole common sense and he needs a little bit of leading and instruction. Such as, I require extra toilet tissue at all times because I'm a woman, so do not question me when I say buy more when there are two rolls left. He knows this now.
We have had really crappy housing situations and it was hell. Now he knows that even though he can wash dishes by hand, a dishwasher is really important to me. Things like lawn mowing and weeding are important to me, and he cheerfully volunteers to help now.
You can't live like this anymore, it's just too sucktastic and a resentful spouse is not a good spouse. Just tell him, "I am sick of this and I am going to handle it. All you have to do is get out of my way." Maybe he'll be relieved about it because he doesn't have to deal with it and you'll be happy. Because most men just want their wives to be happy, so if you say, "This is what I'm doing to make me and the kids happy," I would hope he would shut the frig up and get out of your way. Or get lots of starch in his shorts if he doesn't.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:51 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
While he's out of town, go see some houses, pick one, and tell him this is it, we are moving here. If it needs to be fixed up and/or remodeled, do the same thing later. He's out of town a lot, right? Just do it. Why in the hell do you need his permission to move and make your space right for your family?
It's pretty much impossible for you to go look at houses and NOT deal with a real estate agent.
So your choices are:
- Do nothing and continue to be frustrated and unhappy
- Do what you want and go pick out a house.
When your husband complains about realtors, laugh and say, "Oh John, you're so funny. That's why I love you so much."
As we used to say in the corporate world, "Act now, apologize later."
My husband is a wonderful guy. But he's not always full of the ole common sense and he needs a little bit of leading and instruction. Such as, I require extra toilet tissue at all times because I'm a woman, so do not question me when I say buy more when there are two rolls left. He knows this now.
We have had really crappy housing situations and it was hell. Now he knows that even though he can wash dishes by hand, a dishwasher is really important to me. Things like lawn mowing and weeding are important to me, and he cheerfully volunteers to help now.
You can't live like this anymore, it's just too sucktastic and a resentful spouse is not a good spouse. Just tell him, "I am sick of this and I am going to handle it. All you have to do is get out of my way." Maybe he'll be relieved about it because he doesn't have to deal with it and you'll be happy. Because most men just want their wives to be happy, so if you say, "This is what I'm doing to make me and the kids happy," I would hope he would shut the frig up and get out of your way. Or get lots of starch in his shorts if he doesn't.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:51 PM on July 31, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh, regarding his anti-realtor prejudice:
The realtor's commission is a fee for the work they do in finding a house that fits your needs and then helping you bargain down the price. This is actual labor that you will have to do if you don't employ an agent, unless you're willing to settle for overpaying on a house you don't especially like. If your husband wants to, essentially, take an agent's salary for himself* (by applying what would have gone to the realtor as a credit on the purchase price of a home) then he can damn well do the work of one.
*Yes, it's your money too, but he's sure treating it as his.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:06 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
The realtor's commission is a fee for the work they do in finding a house that fits your needs and then helping you bargain down the price. This is actual labor that you will have to do if you don't employ an agent, unless you're willing to settle for overpaying on a house you don't especially like. If your husband wants to, essentially, take an agent's salary for himself* (by applying what would have gone to the realtor as a credit on the purchase price of a home) then he can damn well do the work of one.
*Yes, it's your money too, but he's sure treating it as his.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:06 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
I look at realtor's fees as insurance. It isn't just that they are helping you find a home, but also have been trained in the intricacies of the Federal, State, County, and City laws that apply to buying property. These laws and their interactions are not simple, and Real Estate companies assume some of the liabilities if something goes terribly wrong.
posted by annsunny at 8:28 PM on July 31, 2011
posted by annsunny at 8:28 PM on July 31, 2011
If you have to do the entire move by yourself anyway, can you just go rent a bigger house by yourself and move when he's away?
posted by gt2 at 10:29 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by gt2 at 10:29 PM on July 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Our family of four lives in a small 2BR apartment in a suburb. Our preschooler is sharing our bedroom.
Check your local occupancy laws on this. You may actually be required to have separate bedroom space for children of the opposite sex.
posted by asockpuppet at 4:35 AM on August 1, 2011
Check your local occupancy laws on this. You may actually be required to have separate bedroom space for children of the opposite sex.
posted by asockpuppet at 4:35 AM on August 1, 2011
His relationship to the space of your apartment is COMPLETELY different than yours.
And, as a person who's spent high-time on the road, I understand why he doesn't want it to change. His life is all change, all the time. That place is his anchor, and he's afraid to lose that.
He's also probably afraid to lose you -- but he's being too obtuse to realize that staying is hurting you.
As we used to say in the corporate world, "Act now, apologize later."
Sysadmins call this "Easier to ask forgiveness than permission" -- but the corollary is "You will get neither if you screw it up." Long term personal relationships are not manager-worker relationships, and when one party just dictates, the relationship starts to die.
The personal problem I see is that he's a little afraid of more change, because he lives with a stupid amount of it all the time. I think what you need is a very long talk alone, where first you understand why he's bothered by this, and you let him know why your bothered by it -- and you don't dismiss why he's bothered by it. Hopefully, he will respect your issues with this as well.
Once you understand each other's issues -- and understand that the other person understands, then you can find the way. He doesn't understand that the cramped conditions bother you as much as losing the anchor of your current home bothers him. Once he does, if he's a good guy -- and you imply as much -- then he'll probably understand that there needs to be a change, and will start helping, or at least, will let you make the call.
Indeed, it may be that the right answer is for him to just trust you on finding a new home, with the understanding that you will find the best one possible and not move again anytime soon. But until he understands that your problems with staying are just as important to you as his fear of leaving is to him, there's going to be a barrier.
Best of luck.
posted by eriko at 6:35 AM on August 1, 2011
And, as a person who's spent high-time on the road, I understand why he doesn't want it to change. His life is all change, all the time. That place is his anchor, and he's afraid to lose that.
He's also probably afraid to lose you -- but he's being too obtuse to realize that staying is hurting you.
As we used to say in the corporate world, "Act now, apologize later."
Sysadmins call this "Easier to ask forgiveness than permission" -- but the corollary is "You will get neither if you screw it up." Long term personal relationships are not manager-worker relationships, and when one party just dictates, the relationship starts to die.
The personal problem I see is that he's a little afraid of more change, because he lives with a stupid amount of it all the time. I think what you need is a very long talk alone, where first you understand why he's bothered by this, and you let him know why your bothered by it -- and you don't dismiss why he's bothered by it. Hopefully, he will respect your issues with this as well.
Once you understand each other's issues -- and understand that the other person understands, then you can find the way. He doesn't understand that the cramped conditions bother you as much as losing the anchor of your current home bothers him. Once he does, if he's a good guy -- and you imply as much -- then he'll probably understand that there needs to be a change, and will start helping, or at least, will let you make the call.
Indeed, it may be that the right answer is for him to just trust you on finding a new home, with the understanding that you will find the best one possible and not move again anytime soon. But until he understands that your problems with staying are just as important to you as his fear of leaving is to him, there's going to be a barrier.
Best of luck.
posted by eriko at 6:35 AM on August 1, 2011
I think it's a terrible idea to buy something without your husband's knowledge, but if you live in a community property state, this is legally impossible. It's pretty clear that you two need therapy; I'd be surprised if this dysfunction doesn't crop up in other areas of your life.
posted by desjardins at 7:06 AM on August 1, 2011
posted by desjardins at 7:06 AM on August 1, 2011
Our family of four lives in a small 2BR apartment in a suburb.
Oh my, I somehow skimmed past the suburb part. He really, really needs to understand how much more claustrophobic a small rental apartment is in the suburbs versus in a large city. (Or a small town, for that matter.)
posted by desuetude at 7:00 PM on August 1, 2011
Oh my, I somehow skimmed past the suburb part. He really, really needs to understand how much more claustrophobic a small rental apartment is in the suburbs versus in a large city. (Or a small town, for that matter.)
posted by desuetude at 7:00 PM on August 1, 2011
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If it helps any, the rest of the issues pretty much subsume under this one. That is, you'll want to work on issues around communication and shared goal setting within your relationship generally (probably in the context of some sort of family therapy, I suppose) before venturing further in the admittedly complicated undertaking of homeownership. The one definitely needs to come before the other.
posted by 5Q7 at 1:10 PM on July 31, 2011 [3 favorites]