What should my next step be?
July 19, 2011 6:25 PM Subscribe
Job search, interview, etiquette question. Sorry for the length.
A few months back (say April), I was looking for a job (unsucessfully) and was going on a lot of informational interviews to get to know people in my industry and get ideas from them on how I could get my foot in the door (no one in my field has been doing much, if any, hiring at all). I reached out to a guy I worked with some ten years ago to see if he had time to chat. I don't know if he remembered me but we know a lot of people in common and he got right back to me and we met for drinks.
He mentioned to me that he was thinking about doing a startup venture related to our line of work and we discussed this back and forth and I said that what he was thinking was exactly the sort of thing I was interested in and that I would love to collaberate with him if there was any potential for that. Sort of come on board and be his right hand person and do a lot of the grunt work as well as helping him build the business. He seemed to really mull this idea over. He said I had great credentials and we seemed to get along personally.
When I left, he said he'd keep in touch and though I was hopeful, I didn't think anything would really come of it. I sent him a thank you email and asked him to keep in touch.
Three weeks later, he emails me to say he'd like me to meet someone in the industry for networking and maybe the guy could help me out on the job front. This guy is also helping my friend with the business venture. I met with the guy and sent my friend an email letting him know and thanked him for the referral.
Fast forward six weeks later and my friend emails me to see how I'm doing and asked if I'd like to get coffee (I hadn't heard from him in the interim). We met a few days later and my friend told me he was definitely going to make the jump with the new business and his timeline would be sometime early fall for things to be up and running. We started talking about how I could contribute, he asked what kind of work I would like to do, what I would not like to do, what my thoughts are for the future, where I would like to see myself go with this venture etc. It really sounded like he wanted me to be a part of it, though he never explicitly said so. This is a venture that would be under his ownership and he would need one other person to help out with getting things up and running and then growing the business from there. Basically, it doesn't have to be me, he could find someone else (he didn't say this, it's just part of my explanation). But it was sounding like he wanted me to come on board.
I told him I was willing to do the grunt work, maybe take on an office manager sort of role and do all the background stuff to free him up to focus on doing the main part of the business, which he loves. I have done the same job as him in my previous roles which means I could also stand in for him and take over those duties as well should he need to be out of the office. Basically I said I wanted to be his back up and support and help him to grow the business. If there was room for it to grow into a sort of partnership over time, I would love that as well and I told him that. He seemed amenable to all of this and asked what my salary expectations would be. I said it was hard to say because while this might be tangentially related to the actual job I have done in the past and am looking for now, it's really a different thing altogether. If I were to get hired at some other company doing the exact job as I have in the past, I would expect to make $xx - $xxx and I told him this. But I said that I was open for discussion on what the role would be and what the entire remuneration package (not just salary) would look like.
After all this, he asked me to put down in an email what kind of a role I would like, what I would dislike doing, where I would like to see myself in the future and any other thoughts. He said he would stay in touch and keep me updated (the main part of opening the business is with him - he's looking for someone to come on board after it is up and running). I told him that I had accepted another job offer which I was due to start the following week. I've been out of work forever and I just needed to take a job so I took something in my field but at more of an entry level position. I'd been holding out for something for so long that was at my level (mid-career, I am in my mid 30s) or even more directly related to what I've done in the past but there was literally nothing so I had to take a lower level position to pay the bills. He seemed to understand and asked if I would have any problem leaving the job after a few months after he got things up and running and I said definitely not. I needed a job to take the pressure off while I look for something more in line with what I've done in the past and this was more of a means to an end for me.
So, I sent the email three weeks ago basically telling him everything I said here. He did not get back to me, but he hasn't always been very prompt with getting back to me in the past plus I know he's really busy so I just assumed he'd get in touch with me as and when he needed to.
I send a follow up email last Friday asking if he'd like to grab coffee and catch up. I still haven't heard back from him and I'm getting worried now. I really, really wanted this job - it was so close to being my dream job and I tried not to get overly excited about it but couldn't help it. It's made me a wreck and it's hard for me to concentrate, which sounds dumb but it was such a great opportunity and he seems like such a great guy.
So my question is - do I follow up with him again and if so, when? Should I assume he's just busy and leave it for a few weeks? If I have to follow up again, what should I say so it doesn't seem like 1.) I'm pestering him, or 2.) I'm trying to force his hand.
There is also the issue that if I know my friend wasn't going to offer me the job I want to throw myself back into my job search full force because I don't love what I'm doing now (though I am grateful to even have work). But I've held off a little bit on looking at things because I don't want to potentially get deep into other interview processes and then have to call one off. But I feel like if I email my friend and ask him to let me know because I want to look at other things, he'll think I'm trying to force a job offer out of him or something. I worry that if I come off as too agressive or too pesky that he'll change his mind about wanting to take me on.
My final worries are that I might have put him off when I told him my salary expectations - maybe they were higher than he was expecting to pay so he feels the need to look for someone else; or the fact that I took another job (which I accepted before I had ever hear anything from him to indicate he was really serious) and there's some kind of issue for him with that.
Anyway, I hope this makes sense and I'm sorry if it got a bit long. I would be grateful for any guidance anyone could give me and what my next step should be.
A few months back (say April), I was looking for a job (unsucessfully) and was going on a lot of informational interviews to get to know people in my industry and get ideas from them on how I could get my foot in the door (no one in my field has been doing much, if any, hiring at all). I reached out to a guy I worked with some ten years ago to see if he had time to chat. I don't know if he remembered me but we know a lot of people in common and he got right back to me and we met for drinks.
He mentioned to me that he was thinking about doing a startup venture related to our line of work and we discussed this back and forth and I said that what he was thinking was exactly the sort of thing I was interested in and that I would love to collaberate with him if there was any potential for that. Sort of come on board and be his right hand person and do a lot of the grunt work as well as helping him build the business. He seemed to really mull this idea over. He said I had great credentials and we seemed to get along personally.
When I left, he said he'd keep in touch and though I was hopeful, I didn't think anything would really come of it. I sent him a thank you email and asked him to keep in touch.
Three weeks later, he emails me to say he'd like me to meet someone in the industry for networking and maybe the guy could help me out on the job front. This guy is also helping my friend with the business venture. I met with the guy and sent my friend an email letting him know and thanked him for the referral.
Fast forward six weeks later and my friend emails me to see how I'm doing and asked if I'd like to get coffee (I hadn't heard from him in the interim). We met a few days later and my friend told me he was definitely going to make the jump with the new business and his timeline would be sometime early fall for things to be up and running. We started talking about how I could contribute, he asked what kind of work I would like to do, what I would not like to do, what my thoughts are for the future, where I would like to see myself go with this venture etc. It really sounded like he wanted me to be a part of it, though he never explicitly said so. This is a venture that would be under his ownership and he would need one other person to help out with getting things up and running and then growing the business from there. Basically, it doesn't have to be me, he could find someone else (he didn't say this, it's just part of my explanation). But it was sounding like he wanted me to come on board.
I told him I was willing to do the grunt work, maybe take on an office manager sort of role and do all the background stuff to free him up to focus on doing the main part of the business, which he loves. I have done the same job as him in my previous roles which means I could also stand in for him and take over those duties as well should he need to be out of the office. Basically I said I wanted to be his back up and support and help him to grow the business. If there was room for it to grow into a sort of partnership over time, I would love that as well and I told him that. He seemed amenable to all of this and asked what my salary expectations would be. I said it was hard to say because while this might be tangentially related to the actual job I have done in the past and am looking for now, it's really a different thing altogether. If I were to get hired at some other company doing the exact job as I have in the past, I would expect to make $xx - $xxx and I told him this. But I said that I was open for discussion on what the role would be and what the entire remuneration package (not just salary) would look like.
After all this, he asked me to put down in an email what kind of a role I would like, what I would dislike doing, where I would like to see myself in the future and any other thoughts. He said he would stay in touch and keep me updated (the main part of opening the business is with him - he's looking for someone to come on board after it is up and running). I told him that I had accepted another job offer which I was due to start the following week. I've been out of work forever and I just needed to take a job so I took something in my field but at more of an entry level position. I'd been holding out for something for so long that was at my level (mid-career, I am in my mid 30s) or even more directly related to what I've done in the past but there was literally nothing so I had to take a lower level position to pay the bills. He seemed to understand and asked if I would have any problem leaving the job after a few months after he got things up and running and I said definitely not. I needed a job to take the pressure off while I look for something more in line with what I've done in the past and this was more of a means to an end for me.
So, I sent the email three weeks ago basically telling him everything I said here. He did not get back to me, but he hasn't always been very prompt with getting back to me in the past plus I know he's really busy so I just assumed he'd get in touch with me as and when he needed to.
I send a follow up email last Friday asking if he'd like to grab coffee and catch up. I still haven't heard back from him and I'm getting worried now. I really, really wanted this job - it was so close to being my dream job and I tried not to get overly excited about it but couldn't help it. It's made me a wreck and it's hard for me to concentrate, which sounds dumb but it was such a great opportunity and he seems like such a great guy.
So my question is - do I follow up with him again and if so, when? Should I assume he's just busy and leave it for a few weeks? If I have to follow up again, what should I say so it doesn't seem like 1.) I'm pestering him, or 2.) I'm trying to force his hand.
There is also the issue that if I know my friend wasn't going to offer me the job I want to throw myself back into my job search full force because I don't love what I'm doing now (though I am grateful to even have work). But I've held off a little bit on looking at things because I don't want to potentially get deep into other interview processes and then have to call one off. But I feel like if I email my friend and ask him to let me know because I want to look at other things, he'll think I'm trying to force a job offer out of him or something. I worry that if I come off as too agressive or too pesky that he'll change his mind about wanting to take me on.
My final worries are that I might have put him off when I told him my salary expectations - maybe they were higher than he was expecting to pay so he feels the need to look for someone else; or the fact that I took another job (which I accepted before I had ever hear anything from him to indicate he was really serious) and there's some kind of issue for him with that.
Anyway, I hope this makes sense and I'm sorry if it got a bit long. I would be grateful for any guidance anyone could give me and what my next step should be.
I wouldn't sweat it too much.
1) He was six weeks in between first and second contact with you. He apparently works on a long timeline.
2) You waited three weeks before a follow-up which is perfectly reasonable and not aggressively pushy at all.
3) He's probably busy actually getting the business up and running right now, and is too swamped with dealing with immediate issues to go on to dealing with longer-term ones, such as you. The fall is still eight weeks away at a minimum, right?
4) If your salary requirements were so out of line, you might have seen a clue in his body language when you first told it to him, and his follow-up would have been "let me keep thinking about this," not "get this in writing for me."
Might not be a slam dunk, but it still looks pretty good to me. You just need to be a little more patient.
posted by Andrhia at 7:28 PM on July 19, 2011
1) He was six weeks in between first and second contact with you. He apparently works on a long timeline.
2) You waited three weeks before a follow-up which is perfectly reasonable and not aggressively pushy at all.
3) He's probably busy actually getting the business up and running right now, and is too swamped with dealing with immediate issues to go on to dealing with longer-term ones, such as you. The fall is still eight weeks away at a minimum, right?
4) If your salary requirements were so out of line, you might have seen a clue in his body language when you first told it to him, and his follow-up would have been "let me keep thinking about this," not "get this in writing for me."
Might not be a slam dunk, but it still looks pretty good to me. You just need to be a little more patient.
posted by Andrhia at 7:28 PM on July 19, 2011
I agree with what's been said. Also, you should throw yourself back into your job search -- growing your "business."
posted by jgirl at 6:07 AM on July 20, 2011
posted by jgirl at 6:07 AM on July 20, 2011
Yeah, I would advise continuing to follow up with him, maybe every four weeks. You won't be seen as pushy if you word it right: "Hi Xxxxxxx, hope you don't mind my checking in every so often, I remain eager to work with you on the startup, and want to make sure I don't slip your mind."
You don't have any evidence that your salary requirements put him off, and you said you were open to further discussion on the topic. Don't give that another thought unless he writes back that he wrote you off due to your excessive salary requirements.
And definitely start looking for your next job. My theory is that if you count on this happening, it won't; if you act like there's no guarantee, you've got a better chance it will happen. And needless to say you could find an even better opportunity.
posted by troywestfield at 6:19 AM on July 20, 2011
You don't have any evidence that your salary requirements put him off, and you said you were open to further discussion on the topic. Don't give that another thought unless he writes back that he wrote you off due to your excessive salary requirements.
And definitely start looking for your next job. My theory is that if you count on this happening, it won't; if you act like there's no guarantee, you've got a better chance it will happen. And needless to say you could find an even better opportunity.
posted by troywestfield at 6:19 AM on July 20, 2011
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A lot of these discussions are people feeling each other out, seeing if there is a potential work relationship, etc. It's all very vague and ambiguous until the ink is dry. Don't let it upset you but move on. Who knows, maybe two years from now this guy will want you on board and will make a better effort to recruit you.
posted by dfriedman at 6:32 PM on July 19, 2011