Culinary arts degrees

May 23, 2005 7:48 PM

I'm debating whether or not to pursue a degree in culinary arts, and also what type of degree and school I should consider.

I'm currently a history major and will be graduating in December 2005. I have considered grad school (allowing me to go on to something like the foreign service) or the USAF officer training school (a sort of fall-back option to grad school). But now I'm starting to think about maybe pursuing one of my other interests: cooking.

I have had no training or serious experience in the culinary field, but it does greatly interest me and I love cooking (when I have the time to do it). I've thought about taking night classes at a community college, but that's not going to get me anywhere, career-wise.

I'm in Minneapolis and found two culinary arts schools that seem reputable (1, 2). The first offers an Associate's Degree, the second seems to be a Bachelor's, but I can't tell. Are there certain things I should be looking for? I'm currently inquiring as to tuition, length of program, etc. Any other random advice/experience?

I should point out that I'm not going to dish out the kind of money it takes to attend the CIA or some school in Paris. I'm looking local, but still respectable. Also, I am looking for "culinary arts," not restaurant management or any of that. This seems to me to be a practical degree, ie something that will give me a job, unlike my soon-to-be history degree.

posted by BradNelson to education (12 comments total)

What are you really trying to do? Do you want to learn to cook more sophisticatedly, or are you thinking of going into cooking as a profession?

If you really just want to master better techniques, etc., then I'd recommend taking classes from a place like those schools (although there's no reason you couldn't pick and choose the classes you liked, and not worry about getting a degree).

If you're thinking of becoming a chef, then I think most pros would strongly recommend getting a job in a kitchen somewhere, for a good year or so. Not only should you really, really be sure you want to pursue that career (and lifestyle) before you spend a lot of money on a diploma, but a lot of folks who cook for a career have never set foot in a cooking school. (Depending on the kitchen, it can even be a handicap.)
posted by LairBob at 8:20 PM on May 23, 2005

- Do you want to learn to cook more sophisticatedly, or are you thinking of going into cooking as a profession?
I'm thinking as a profession/career. I'm not wanting to cooking at top-of-the-line restaurants, but something reasonable.

- most pros would strongly recommend getting a job in a kitchen somewhere
Is this really possible for someone with no experience or training? I would need a living-sustainable job, if I have to give up my current one.

- Not only should you really, really be sure you want to pursue that career (and lifestyle) before you spend a lot of money on a diploma
Heh...already did that with the history degree I'm working on.
posted by BradNelson at 8:27 PM on May 23, 2005

I'm not as smart as most people, so I realized two things later on in my exploration of this option. 1) You have to like the kind of cooking in which you make the same thing over and over again not just fun, inventive cooking, and 2) You're not going to get to eat out very often and may even grow to like it less since you'll be cooking nights and probably won't want to see a restaurant on your nights off.

If you haven't you might want to read Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain.

Lots of culinary schools nowadays mandate an internship, so you might want to look into what kind of internships the schools frequently supply and whether they are in restaurants you'd like to work at.
posted by ontic at 8:29 PM on May 23, 2005

Another nice book is The Making of a Chef, which is specifically about the CIA, but still good.
posted by smackfu at 8:32 PM on May 23, 2005

Thanks for the book suggestions, those look like interesting reads.

ontic: yeah, I've come to realize that I might come to despite cooking for myself or at home. And the repetition of restaurant work is certainly something to consider.
posted by BradNelson at 8:37 PM on May 23, 2005

BradNelson writes "Is this really possible for someone with no experience or training? I would need a living-sustainable job"

Well, it's certainly possible...until culinary schools got really popular in the last decade or so, working your way up through the kitchen was pretty much the _only_ way to get into the profession. I know a few professional chefs, and almost all of them worked their way up--formal training's become more common nowadays, but it's still often seen as something that dilettantes do, who aren't committed enough to the profession to put in the hard work and apprenticeship. (I'm not saying that's true, but it's a common perception.)

Whether or not you can make a living wage is mainly a matter of luck, in finding a good opening, and what a "living wage" means for you. Entry-level jobs definitely do not pay very well, but if you live somewhere pretty cheap and can scrape by, at least you're making some money instead of spending it on school.

If you can get financing for the school, then you might consider using that to "support" yourself, and taking a part-time job in a kitchen to get some real-life experience at the same time. That'd allow you to see both sides of the equation, and get a sense of how worthwhile the school education was for you.
posted by LairBob at 8:39 PM on May 23, 2005

I live in the Twin Cities and know someone that went to Le Cordon Bleu. He racked up some debt at the school and I think he's now a shift supervisor at SuperValu. I guess that you get out of it what you put into it, and the guy was kinda lazy. Don't expect to run out and start the next Auriga or Solera anytime soon though.
posted by Arch Stanton at 9:15 PM on May 23, 2005

How weird, a good friend of mine finished History at Harvard before deciding to become a chef. She went to a school in New York. She got her culinary degree and is EXTREMELY happy traveling and writing about food in savvy magazines.
I'll send her this link.
posted by ruelle at 9:32 PM on May 23, 2005

My only experience is with Johnson and Wales, as that's where my mom went (about 4-5 years ago,) I do know that, at least in their BA curriculum, they place a great deal of emphasis on actually working in a kitchen. Students are required to cleanup, mop, things like that after class, as well as mixology and other restaurant related service skills. They also have (required? heavily encouraged? I don't recall,) internship programs, with various hotels/restaurants in the Providence/Newport/SE Massachusetts areas. I believe the internship phase is in the second half of the program. While a private school, I also believe that J&W is not a super expensive program.

My mom went there after getting a BA in history herself, she was therefore able to get a second bachelors, without having to take any gen-ed requirements, in about 2 years, IIRC. J&W has a rather good job placement program, at least from my understanding. The only reason she isn't working in a restaurant now is that she is 55, and she forgot how much wear and tear she would put on her feet, working a normal shift on the line in a decently busy restaurant. (She did work as a line cook at a Long Island restaurant in the 70's.) It is very hard, hot, stressful work. My impression of the cooks in her class, her teachers, that show "The Restaurant" about Rocco DiSpirito's fuck up of a restaurant, and from reading bits of the Bourdain book is that working cooks work hard and play hard. If you want to do all the neat inventive stuff, you're going to have to work your way up from line or prep, because I've never heard of anyone becoming Head Chef right out of school, even with culinary schools, it is (as LairBob said,) an apprentice based profession.

Take this all with a 5lb grain of salt, coming from someone who has only 2nd-hand experience with restaurants. (Well, besides working in the kitchen on prep and line at a hot-dog restaurant, but it's not quite the same.)
posted by Snyder at 9:34 PM on May 23, 2005

Perhaps what you wish in life would be better acheived by earning some capital and then buying your own nice little restaurant, where you are the boss.
posted by Goofyy at 3:28 AM on May 24, 2005

I quit the high-tech world to follow my dream of working in the culinary world a few years ago. I'd recommend working in the industry for a bit to get the feel of the business before sinking lots of time and money into a formal education.

It's a lifestyle, not just a job, and you must be suited for it. I found that it seemed to attract a lot of really smart and creative people who thrive initially, then burn out quickly in jobs where all one ever does is make the same 10 dishes for the 10,000-10,080th time every night. It often resembles factory work more than art. There's a lot of alcoholism, drug addiction, broken families, etc.

You need to be prepared to move from job to job a lot in the early years to gain experience and keep from going crazy as an underling. You need to realize how the industry is changing; that more and more restaurants even at the higher-end are corporate chains where even the head chef has little creative control and influence.

I left the business after a year in which I met very few people about whom I could say, "I'd like to be where he is in five/ten/fifteen years." Get a couple of jobs, even just as a dishwasher, to see what it's like working in a restaurant and how you feel about applying that test.
posted by bradhill at 12:06 PM on May 24, 2005

More good discussion of cooking as a living at this Q&A (also of May 23rd). [Summary: probably not a good idea]
posted by WestCoaster at 7:51 PM on May 25, 2005