Doctor Who-can-I-ask-if-I-really-have-to-watch-these

July 4, 2011 7:39 PM

Silly question: I just watched the first series of Torchwood. I like it. I don't, however, like Doctor Who. Is this going to be a problem when I try to follow the larger plot arc?

I've seen maybe five episodes of Doctor Who in my life, all Matt Smith episodes. Not really a fan of the tone. That's tangential to my question though, and really just a matter of taste.

But last weekend I saw the trailer for the upcoming season of Torchwood and decided to give it a try. I burned through the first series since then, and am about to start the second one. There were some sticking points where I realized I was missing out on backstory from Captain Jack and Torchwood's first appearances in DW, but it wasn't really a problem.

I've "read ahead" a bit on Wikipedia, so I know that stuff happens to Jack in a crossover between the first and second Torchwood series. Like I said though, I'd really rather not watch Doctor Who episodes if I can avoid it. I'm fine reading character bios or fictional histories on Wikipedia if the facts there are necessary to enjoy the main-plot episodes going forward.

TL;DR: Is it necessary to watch the Jack Harkness crossover episodes of Doctor Who to follow the plotlines in Torchwood S2-3? If so, can I substitute plot summaries, Wikipedia articles, or other resources to catch up on the necessary facts? Can you point me to them?

On preview: I just saw this question, which seems applicable. Now that more Torchwood has aired in the past 3.5 years, though, is it really still necessary to go back to DW to catch up, or will all the character development end up happening in Torchwood as well?

posted by supercres to Media & Arts (26 answers total)

I'm pretty sure you'll be fine; basically all you need to know is that if the TARDIS noise happens and Jack runs off he's going with the Doctor. I think.
posted by NoraReed at 7:43 PM on July 4, 2011

You'll be absolutely fine if you just stick to Torchwood. They rehash all of the really important points over the course of the episodes. At worst, you may not get one of the tiny in-jokes they throw in every now and again. You summed in up best in that last sentence:

Will all the character development end up happening in Torchwood as well?

Yes. Happy watching!
posted by Krazor at 7:45 PM on July 4, 2011

They're both virtually independent.
posted by Krazor at 7:46 PM on July 4, 2011

Short answer, nope.

Jack has some side adventures in Doctor Who (and some MAJOR questions about his character, past, present & future, are answered there), but mostly they're independent.
posted by smirkette at 7:46 PM on July 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

You'll be fine.

Also, for some reason lots of the Whovians I know dump on Torchwood, so fair warning there. Dunno why, I like them both for different reasons.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:50 PM on July 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Thanks, all. They are very different in tone, which I guess is why their audiences don't overlap completely. I find DW to be a little too "fantastical" for my taste; Torchwood is at least grounded in realism, though fantastic stuff happens.

It's actually mostly the questions about his "his character, past, present & future", as well as that of the Torchwood organization, that I'm wondering about, to be honest. He's an interesting fellow! Would it be a waste of time to try to get that from fan wikis, etc, or should I just suck it up and watch selected episodes mentioned in the previous applicable question?
posted by supercres at 7:52 PM on July 4, 2011

I think you should at least give the first episode he appears in a shot; the tone with Tennant is different than it is with Smith.
posted by NoraReed at 7:55 PM on July 4, 2011 [5 favorites]

Response by poster: Righto-- will do. Thanks!
posted by supercres at 7:56 PM on July 4, 2011

I may be in the minority here, but I liked Captain Jack's character a lot more in Doctor Who than I have so far in Torchwood. I came in expecting Torchwood to be more fun & lighthearted and was disappointed. So if you like the darker tone, I don't see any reason to go back & watch the crossover eps.

I'm about halfway through TW 2nd season, so if there are major crossover plot points beyond that YMMV.
posted by Space Kitty at 7:57 PM on July 4, 2011 [2 favorites]

Might I even suggest starting at the beginning of the reboot with Eccleston? He's got to be the least goofy Doctor of them all; well, excepting the first Doctor, perhaps. No Jack in series one-reboot, but a more serious tone throughout. (And Dalek is a bloody brilliant episode.)
posted by smirkette at 8:00 PM on July 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'd agree that you should watch the episodes where Captain Jack first appears. For one thing, he's a significantly different character in them, so it will help you understand why some Whovians (myself included) get a bit whiny about the way he plays out on Torchwood.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:06 PM on July 4, 2011 [2 favorites]

I watched Torchwood until I realized the whole premise is that bad stuff always happens. I dropped at the Random Shoes episode. It was a highpoint, I felt good, I figured get out while ahead.

Dr Who is fantastical but it reminds me a lot more of real life—real life is fantastical! (At least mine seems/is, YMMV.) The Doctor is fate's fool but not without hope. That's what I like about DW.

As I see it, Torchwood is just mean-spirited. Not overtly, but deeply, integrally. Characters I care about have really bad times, like they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's like hell but choosing to be there. (Which is pretty much how I see hell so there you go.)

I'm glad someone else is watching Torchwood, though. I care about those characters a lot. Maybe it's made for a different soul than mine. If so, awesome.
posted by Mike Mongo at 8:08 PM on July 4, 2011 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: I know you're all wondering, so per Wikipedia, I'm going to start with the two-parter "Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances" and watch to the end of that series. Depending on how it goes, I might go back and watch from the beginning of that series. If it ends up being less than fun, I'll probably just watch the last three episodes of S3 then push on in Torchwood.

Space Kitty, it's the "fun and lighthearted" in DW that makes me favor the spinoff. The dark grittiness sort of reminds me of X-Files, but with a stronger, more obvious sci-fi streak.

Mike Mongo, you summed up the reasons why I dislike Doctor Who perfectly, but I obviously come to the opposite conclusion. I guess it's the basic premise: fix a single screwed-up world and era by slogging through one awful problem at a time, or flit through space and time, helping people as you go, basically from the point of view of a deus ex machina. "Where shall we go next?" seems to be the major plot generator, rather than the rift that's tearing apart the world. More fun, for sure, but a matter of taste.

Again, thanks!
posted by supercres at 8:16 PM on July 4, 2011

"Where shall we go next?" seems to be the main plot generator, rather than the rift that's tearing apart the world."

I thought the TARDIS always gets the Doctor exactly where he needs to be, so that it only seems random to us or fellow travelers, but really, there is always a strategy behind each destination that links to the greater arc?

Or have I just been giving the writers too much credit?
posted by jbenben at 8:24 PM on July 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: I guess I should withdraw that. I may be misunderstanding the series completely, so don't listen to my characterizations. Complete snap judgements/prejudice. I just didn't like the episodes I saw, so it's probably unfair; that's why I'm giving it another shot now that I have a reason to.
posted by supercres at 8:27 PM on July 4, 2011

jbenben - it was only in Gaiman's episode that your explanation of why the TARDIS lands where it lands is touched upon. None of the previous decades of Doctor Who said anything about that.
posted by tzikeh at 8:41 PM on July 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

supercres - the current season (Matt Smith) is extremely different in tone than the first season of the reboot (Eccleston), which is in turn extremely different from second-fourth season of the reboot (Tennant). "Blink" and "Midnight" are two of the most horrific episodes of tv I've ever seen, and they're both during Tennant years, plus "Human Nature/Family of Blood" is a big left turn (heh) from within its own season (3).

Not a proselytizer--just sayin' that DW is not the same from season to season, or even from arc to arc.
posted by tzikeh at 8:43 PM on July 4, 2011 [2 favorites]

Tennant is different than it is with Smith

Emphatically agree. Smith feels like Tween Dr. Who. Tennant feels much more adult, and if you really want to like Dr. Who, skip straight to Eccleston's Who where the character of Capt. Jack is introduced. That is some good Who.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:36 PM on July 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure if its as easy as everyone says. I watched S1 and S2 of Torchwood recently and there seemed to be constant references to Doctor Who's current seasons. Plus, Doctor Who is miles ahead of Torchwood.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:07 PM on July 4, 2011

I didn't like Doctor Who at all.

Then I watched an episode of Torchwood, got hooked, and watched all 3 seasons in rapid succession.

Then I watched some of the Eccleston Who episodes, and was very 'meh' about them.

Then, because I kept hearing about how impossibly amazing the new Who episodes were, I skipped straight to Season 4 (when Donna is introduced). I watched the whole season, loved it, and went back and re-watched the earlier Eccleston and Tennant seasons.

It seems that the show hadn't quite hit its stride in the first season or two after the reboot. I know people love Eccleston, but his character never got me hooked, and I always got the impression that the writers didn't really quite know what to do with Billie Piper (Rose) at first.

Now, I prefer Doctor Who to Torchwood. If nothing else, the DW episodes are considerably more re-watchable than Season 1 or 2 of Torchwood. (Season 3 is infinitely re-watchable, and one of the best bits of television that I've ever seen. Even if you don't like Torchwood, you should force yourself through the first two seasons to get to the third one...it's really that good.)
posted by schmod at 10:27 PM on July 4, 2011

My advice under pretty much all circumstances is "Watch Doctor Who!" but I don't think there's anything to be gained by watching something you don't enjoy. Jack is a different character in the two shows. The things I find enjoyable about him on DW are the things you dislike, so why not let Torchwood stand on its own?
posted by Space Kitty at 10:50 PM on July 4, 2011

I watched Torchwood without ever having watched an episode of Dr. Who in my life (I still haven't, except for that one episode where Jack shows up and all the people's faces are turning into gas masks?). I loved it, although it certainly does get very dark at times, and I skipped out on Children of Earth thanks to a particularly nasty spoiler *sigh*. So, based on anecdotal data, it's very possible. I'm sure I missed out on some of the subtext that's based on information from Dr. Who, but it hardly made the show unwatchable.
posted by ashirys at 7:42 AM on July 5, 2011

You might try Children of Earth even w/ the spoiler. It's the best tv sci-fi I've seen since the good days of BSG

Thanks all for the Dr. Who/Torchwood info. Here's another person who loves Torchwood and is trying to figure how to develop this into a Dr. Who love
posted by angrycat at 2:42 PM on July 5, 2011

supercres, what you're doing is pretty much what I'd advise. "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" is a pretty great place to start out with Who anyway - it's probably the best Eccleston serial, and those series 3 episodes are pretty important for Jack character development reasons, but I can't imagine needing to see the rest. I mean, I really like Doctor Who (the older series are pretty different in tone from the Matt Smith one), but you don't need to watch them.

Some of the characters do a crossover at the end of series 4 that takes place after the end of Torchwood series 2 (and I wouldn't advise watching it until then, I saw it before and it kind of spoiled some of the events of that series for me) but before Children of the Earth that I don't think really gives you any important crossover info from a Torchwood perspective. (Children of the Earth is so great! I liked the first two series but found them to be wildly uneven - some great episodes, some total messes, like, what was that one with the fairies? - but Children of the Earth is just really good. I was spoiled for one major event and I still found it really exciting.)
posted by SoftRain at 4:15 PM on July 5, 2011

Having just seen episode one of the new season of Torchwood, you can safely pick it up here, and though you may miss some character development, you'll pick it up quickly (and still probably be able to enjoy the previous seasons if you want to pick them up)

(I say this as someone's who has been a Doctor Who fan for 20+ years and will never be able to say "sure, you wouldn't enjoy it more if you knew the whole 50 years of back story" but realize this is fucking ridiculous)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:12 PM on July 5, 2011

Response by poster: Short term update:

Watched "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances". Enjoyed it, and greatly preferred Eccleston's Doctor, so much so that when I started watching the next one ("Boom Town") and saw the "previously on..." clips I figured I'd go back and watch from the beginning of the series.

So. Doing that now; just finished "Dalek" and started the episode with Simon Pegg. When I finish, I'm going to skip ahead to the last four episodes of S3. If I like Tennant as much (hey, he worked for me as Hamlet), I'll go back and catch S2 and the rest of S3 when I get a chance. (That's what beach vacations are for, right?)

Thanks all for the insight. I might become a Whovian yet.
posted by supercres at 7:36 AM on July 6, 2011