Help me, I don't know how to date...

May 17, 2005 9:37 AM

I'm a recently divorced female in my early 30s and haven't dated since college. I've been pretty successful as far as meeting men with who I click; it's the part after that I don't understand...having The Talk without seeming needy or psycho...

I tend to wait a bit (3-6 weeks) before feeling comfortable enough to have sex with someone new and i have no problem inquiring (for medical reasons) as to whether they're sleeping with other people. But as far as discussing my goals and their goals as to where the relationship is going? When do I do that? How would it be approached?

The past two relationships I had lasted 3 months; both guys kind of figured out that I might want to move towards some exclusive type situation and they bailed.

Two things to consider: I'm a serial monogamist; I don't have to be with someone but I can't casually date several people simultaneously. Also, I got feedback from one of the guys I dated last year and he said that I seemed really distant and he was genuinely surprised when he realized that I liked him a lot.

I don't think that relationships are about ownership and I'm not looking to get married anytime soon. But I also don't want to waste my time if it's going nowhere.

posted by anonymous to human relations (33 answers total)

it's the part after that I don't understand...having The Talk without seeming needy or psycho...

I don't mean to sound flip, but literally all you have to do is let a guy know you're attracted to him, and he'll take it from there, in most cases. But you better make it clear, cause many of us are deficient at picking up signals.
posted by jonmc at 9:40 AM on May 17, 2005

I'm actually kind of surprised to hear that you can date someone for 3 months without having any kind of discussion about where the relationship is going. (I would expect that in high school or the early 20's, but not early 30's).

I would suggest that you not waste your time if it's going nowhere, and have the discussion fairly early. Like, maybe after 2 or 3 weeks? On the other hand, I'm probably the typical socially-deficient internet geek, so this may be terrible advice.

This was one thing I loved about online dating. You state in your profile what kind of relationships you're open to, and everyone goes in with their eyes open.
posted by agropyron at 9:41 AM on May 17, 2005

i guess maybe i'm old fashioned, but what you describe sounds normal to me. i think you just got unlucky.

or maybe the problem is that you're left with a bunch of people who, if they wanted a monogamous relationship, would be in one by now. maybe you need to try a different way to find people - some kind of dating agency.

or perhaps you need to make it clearer that you're looking for a monogamous relationship but not necessarily marriage. when you say "the talk" it sounds a bit serious. sleeping with one person is very different to planning to stay together for life. maybe you're thinking of the first, but they're hearing the second?
posted by andrew cooke at 9:42 AM on May 17, 2005

From what you wrote it sounds like you're totally normal. Maybe it's more about the guys than it is about you.

6 weeks to 3 months sounds about right for finding out if the guy's a keeper. If he hasn't said "I really like spending time with you" (note: NOT "I really like having sex with you", that doesn't count) by then, it's not inappropriate to gently ask "where is this going?", or else just assume he's along for the ride and ditch him.

Maybe they think you're just in it for the sex since you're not making it clear whether you like them a lot, so they don't think they need to explain their position.
posted by matildaben at 9:43 AM on May 17, 2005 [1 favorite]

I don't mean to sound flip, but literally all you have to do is let a guy know you're attracted to him, and he'll take it from there, in most cases. But you better make it clear, cause many of us are deficient at picking up signals.
posted by jonmc

jonmc, I don't think she has a problem getting dates. She seems to have a problem communicating with the people she's dating about where the relationship is going.
posted by agropyron at 9:44 AM on May 17, 2005

Have you considered that the universe is unfolding as it should? The guys who bailed did you a favour. You're after the guy who wants commitment, and wants it with you. What are the odds--one in ten? One in twenty? Keep looking.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:47 AM on May 17, 2005

Having just split up with somebody in your position, my advice may or may not be helpful to you.

Are you really over your ex? If you're still carrying on an argument with him in your head, you may be baffling or scaring the shit out of the guys you're with now. The fact that you've been perceived as distant suggests that gestures that you're making aren't being picked up on...a classic sign that you might be living in the past. If you're hung up on the last commitment you made that didn't pan out, then you're probably underplaying the buildup to the next commitment.

I'd say that the first hint you get that you may be feeling more seriously about the next guy, just tell him. And let him know your doubts as well. If you really are compatible, he should be able to negotiate whatever mixed signals you're sending as long as you keep telegraphing interest and commitment.
posted by felix betachat at 9:48 AM on May 17, 2005

agropyron, the central idea is the same. We're often lousy at picking up women's emotional signals. Clarity of communication is essential.
posted by jonmc at 9:49 AM on May 17, 2005

I don't think that relationships are about ownership and I'm not looking to get married anytime soon. But I also don't want to waste my time if it's going nowhere.

It sounds like you're a little conflicted here. You don't want commitment, but you sort of do? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this.

I think what would work for me, in the guy role: "I really like spending time with you. I'm sure you can understand why I'm *not* looking for a major commitment, but I'm also not after a casual fling. Are you comfortable with the thought of having this conversation again in a year?"

Quick, and to the point. Definite about not wanting to be committed, giving a definite time frame but only for the thought of having the conversation, not making a date for it.

If he says "yes", then be happy but relaxed about it. A response like "Cool!", hug and a kiss, then go bowl another frame/watch the next episode/ride another hill. Don't make a big deal out of it, and he won't either.

Oh, and 3 months into the relationship? By that point, I'd be assuming that serial monogamy was where it was at already.
posted by 5MeoCMP at 9:52 AM on May 17, 2005 [1 favorite]

I don't think there's anything wrong with making it fairly clear fairly early on. You don't have to have a "Talk", but if you mention sort of offhandedly what you've said here, that you're not looking to get married, but you're not looking for play / casual sex, either, that's totally reasonable, and not uncommon among people in their 30's, either. As long as you don't focus it on them, i.e., by specifically talking about if this relationship is going anywhere, it shouldn't be a big deal. Just make it about you - that you're at a point in your life where you're generally inclined toward stable, monogamous relationships, that it's not an absolute thing, but you're unlikely to put in much effort just for kicks. If that freaks them out, then they're probably not at a similar point in their lives.

As for seeming distant, is this one person's opinion, or something you've been told by others as well? If the former, it may not be worth giving too much credence to. If the latter, do you wish to be more interactive but just don't know how? I guess as usual the most important element is communication. Little things like smiling, touching, using someone's name, calling them by a nickname, or leaving notes / little gifts can also increase a sense of intimacy.
posted by mdn at 9:53 AM on May 17, 2005

Sounds to me like you are timing things fairly well now.

The problem is that dating and relationships don't work the same once you get past college. Most everyone wants sex but almost no one wants to commit to anything longer than short-term, iow about a month. With experience in adult relationships, people get pickier.

You just have to keep trying.
posted by mischief at 9:56 AM on May 17, 2005

Sounds fairly normal, this was what my early-30's dating experiences were like. It seems that you have two concerns 1) guys maybe can't tell that you like them 2) you're never sure when is a good time to bring up that you're looking for something exclusive, albeit not necessarily on the fast track to marriage.

If you can ask someone if they're sleeping with someone else for medical reasons, maybe you can just expand this and ask if they're sleeping with someone else because you're not and you'd like to be sleeping only with them. This gets across "hey I really like you" and at the same time satisfies your curiosity about where they might be going with all this, if not where the two of you are going. I've found that "where is this going?" talks tend to be tough because people find them threatening and they want to say the right thing even if it's not necessarily accurate. I usually focus on how the relationship feels, and if something happens that seems out of line with that, I'll usually ask about that.

I'm also old-fashioned somewhat, so at the point at which I start sleeping with someone in more than a casual way, I'll usually make it clear that I like to be in somewhat exclusive relationships. If the guy I'm with doesn't want that, it's a good time for him to gracefully bow out. I think agropyron has it right too, online dating has really reduced the "do we want the same thing?" anxiety to more manageable levels because you can say right up front "I'd like to be in a long term relationship" or "I'm looking for a short term good time"

And, when I met a guy who was as interested in me as I was with him, we didn't really even have to have a talk, we both sort of knew what was going on. I don't think it's always this easy, but there is an element of "when it's right, you'll know" in all this.
posted by jessamyn at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2005

(after preview) yeah, and as others have said, by 3 months I would think monogamy would already have been established, so that's definitely not unusual on your part.
posted by mdn at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2005

I don't mean to sound flip, but literally all you have to do is let a guy know you're attracted to him

I don't mean to sound flip either, but literally all you have to do to get rid of some guys is to let them know you're interested in spending more time with them. Like, you know, "exclusively".

I think 3 months is about OK. If you're going to scare him off after 3 months with a simple "Do you consider this more than a casual relationship?", then he's probably not interested in a longer term relatrionship.

Plus - what 5MeoCMP said.
posted by seanyboy at 10:00 AM on May 17, 2005

I'd also like to agree with what jessamyn said. If you don't hop into the sack with them immediately, then by the time you take that step, it should be pretty obvious to you both that this isn't just a fly-by-night thing.

I think being forward about what you're looking for at the beginning is easy if all you're after is a quick fling ... the one time I did that, it worked out well and was very comfortable for both of us, but coming up with that sort of question in regards to wanting a more long-term but still not committed relationship in the beginning could feel kind of awkward to me and would come out sounding psycho and needy.

I guess, after you've slept with them a few times would be about the right time. Not before, not after the first time, and not 6 months down the track -- by which time, it's a given.
posted by 5MeoCMP at 10:13 AM on May 17, 2005

I suppose I could see how a guy would think that a girl might be 'distant' if it was 3 - 6 weeks of dating before hitting the sack. It may be pretty banal but a guy will often judge the level of intimacy and connectedness by whether or not a sexual relationship is occurring (and obviously that does have a great weight of bearing but I'd sense moreso for a guy, generally speaking) So maybe they were judging you from their notions of how a relationship should warm up?
But I think as a rule of thumb, advising that you don't want just a fling and that you'd like the relationship to be mutually monogamous ought to come before sleeping together for the first time. Probably casually brought up chatting over dinner or something rather than in the state of undress. Then revisit the issue after a couple of months to clarify and smooth the road ahead. Boys will often either not think of it, not bother or appreciate the clarifications (excepting those that fall outside the types you'd see as keepers) But keep lookin'. Your hopes are well within the bounds of the majority I'd think.
posted by peacay at 10:13 AM on May 17, 2005

What about "Hey, I like you. I'd like to be exclusive -- you know, no other guys, no other girls. What do you think?" Or even, "Hey. I'm not seeing anyone else and I want to keep it that way. Want to be my boyfriend?"

But I also don't want to waste my time if it's going nowhere.

I get the wanting to be exclusive, but the "wanting to head somewhere" thing means more to me than just that. This statement is confusing/scary to me (and I'm a recently divorced 30-year-old female serial monogomist). So it might be the way you're phrasing it.

If I were faced with this, I would assume you were looking for marriage prospects in the long term. Having a good time with someone, learning whether you're right for each other, enjoying the moments -- I hardly see that as a waste.
Wasting time? What else could you accomplish in that time except having a good time and finding out more about yourself, the other person and your relationship?

What is the harm in losing this time? Do you want to have kids? Be remarried before you're 40? Be honest with yourself about your real goals -- even if you think they may scare someone away.

You don't have to tell the potential Mr. Anonymous six weeks into the relationship that these are all the things you want, but on the other hand, if you're working towards some internal goals, you should be able to communicate them three months in.

(On preview. Yeah, everyone's pretty much there.)
posted by Gucky at 10:23 AM on May 17, 2005

But I think as a rule of thumb, advising that you don't want just a fling and that you'd like the relationship to be mutually monogamous ought to come before sleeping together for the first time.

No offense, but I think this is a terrible rule of thumb. Rare is the man (and even the woman in increasing numbers) who is going to commit to a relationship without an idea of what the sex is going to be like. Presumptively this approach would only be effective on people who could care less about the quality of their sex lives, or those who somehow assume that everybody they can have a decent conversation with and are attracted to will make for good sexual partners.
posted by drpynchon at 10:53 AM on May 17, 2005

I agree with felix betachat, and I think there's a vital piece of information missing from the post: what exactly does "recently divorced" mean? If it's not much over a year, you need more time to get over it. I started sort-of-dating a year after my divorce even though I knew it was too soon, and sure enough it was pretty much hopeless. After I was in better shape and able to have more fulfilling (even if temporary) relationships, I dated a recently divorced woman who was delightful but all messed up -- I quickly realized there was no point going on with it.

If you're thoroughly over your marriage and ready for love, then: what everybody else said. Especially jessamyn and gucky. Enjoy the relationships while they last, don't expect them to last forever, try to be neither needy nor distant, and hope that one of them eventually clicks. And good luck!
posted by languagehat at 11:06 AM on May 17, 2005 [1 favorite]

What is this "talk" you write about? I've had a few succesful relationships and am very happily married now and I don't understand what this "talk" is. It sounds scary though.
posted by luriete at 11:07 AM on May 17, 2005

Wow, not to be flippant either; but your problem perfectly describes every episode of Sex in the City. I think you should get mentally prepared for the war that which is dating in your 30s.

A friend of mine is in a similar situation and she's been in dating hell for the last four years. None of her relationships have lasted more than two months. In her case it comes down to liking the wrong type of guy for her. This may not be the case for you, though.

From a guy's point of view: I feel that things should develop naturally. I don't like "the talk" the talk means there's something wrong and to bail out, quick. TO ME it's like it shouldn't need to be said; it should be taken as a given. When it's right, it's right.

Best of luck.
posted by Livewire Confusion at 11:32 AM on May 17, 2005

TO ME it's like it shouldn't need to be said; it should be taken as a given. When it's right, it's right.

I agree, Livewire Confusion. I never even really knew what that meant, but I'm dating someone know where everything went down really naturally- no huge talk necessary. And it's really nice.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:43 AM on May 17, 2005 [2 favorites]

Oh goodness- I'm dating someone now...
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:45 AM on May 17, 2005 [1 favorite]

I don't think that relationships are about ownership and I'm not looking to get married anytime soon. But I also don't want to waste my time if it's going nowhere.

Semantics is everything. When you say things like "the talk" or "is this going anywhere" it really gives the impression that you are thinking about setting up a series of dominoes that will eventually fall and spell out "marriage". (Saying "is this going anywhere" will be interpreted as "things like us going out on dates, this isn't really currently going anywhere, and we need to start heading somewhere". If you like how things are going, don't say this.) If you combine this with the fact that maybe dudes can't tell that you are into them, then that to me is a recipe for scaring dudes away: that's too steep of a hill to coast down safely.

Let guys that you are seeing know that you like them. Can't really say how to do that without knowing why they can't tell that you are into them, but having them know that will help when you ask if you can be "exclusive". It's alot easier to make the jump from "I'm seeing a woman who I like and who likes me" to "I'm exclusively seeing a woman who I like and who likes me" than it is to make the leap from "I'm seeing a woman and I can't tell if she's all that into me" to "I'm going to start getting ready to get married to a woman whose level of interest in me is uncertain."
posted by 23skidoo at 11:57 AM on May 17, 2005

My two cents as a New Yorker with lots of single women friends: mid 30s is the dead zone for single men. If they were the sort who were both interested in and capable of maintaining a serious relationship, they'd already be married.

Aim towards that late 30s / early 40s zone, and you're getting back into the sweet spot. The never-married guys are starting to taste their mortality, and their buddies' sons are now starting to play Little League and hit golf balls. You also get a much better class of divorced guys, too -- the ones who split from their wives after ten years instead of the ones who couldn't even make it for three or four years.
posted by MattD at 12:08 PM on May 17, 2005 [1 favorite]

If they were the sort who were both interested in and capable of maintaining a serious relationship, they'd already be married.

Ouch.
posted by felix betachat at 12:34 PM on May 17, 2005

Agreed with 23skidoo. Instead of asking them where they see things going, tell them exactly what you want. That way they don't have to read your mind for the correct answer, and you can both discuss things about your actual desires rather than what you're assuming or guessing the other person wants or doesn't want to hear.
posted by 88robots at 5:03 PM on May 17, 2005 [1 favorite]

I tend to wait a bit (3-6 weeks) before feeling comfortable enough to have sex with someone new...

Just a thought -- perhaps that's not quite long enough before engaging in sex.
posted by davidmsc at 7:45 PM on May 17, 2005

Women are monogamous by nature.

There is likely to be some "waste of time" with dating until you find someone you're compatible with. Consider it an experience and take something from it.

Communicate freely. I don't think you can put a timeframe on emotions and the right time to jump in the sack.
posted by Chimp at 1:40 AM on May 18, 2005

Women are monogamous by nature.

Generalizations are sometimes hollow even in a Chimp's world.
posted by peacay at 3:58 AM on May 18, 2005

I used to think I had to have "the talk." But you don't. If the relationship is serious, you'll know it. If you think you have to talk about it, your relationship is not serious.
posted by kindall at 7:10 AM on May 18, 2005

Serious relationships: If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
posted by 4easypayments at 8:38 AM on May 18, 2005

Consider yourself lucky that they bailed- at least now you know that they weren't right. As for the "when to have the talk" conundrum, I think it's best to operate on a case by case basis. I would also ask myself, why the need for serial monogamy?
posted by dagnyduquette at 5:22 PM on May 19, 2005