Would you ever take a job with an unprofitable company?
June 2, 2011 6:50 AM Subscribe
Would you ever take a job with an unprofitable company? What would you consider before doing so?
I make a good living with a hellish commute and a lot of travel. I have had an old acquaintance ask me to join his department at an unprofitable company. The salary is amazing, the people in the department are great, but the organization is, while not in a "tailspin", definitely unprofitable and needing to correct course. My brain says "hey, it's good money, and you don't know the future. things could be great this time next year and you'll regret not taking the job! and even if the company goes belly-up, you can get another job". My gut says "this company has structural problems. make sure you know what you're going to do in 12 months". I'm at the point in my career where I need to take some risks in order to get ahead, and this seems like a promotion and risk, all at the same time.
I make a good living with a hellish commute and a lot of travel. I have had an old acquaintance ask me to join his department at an unprofitable company. The salary is amazing, the people in the department are great, but the organization is, while not in a "tailspin", definitely unprofitable and needing to correct course. My brain says "hey, it's good money, and you don't know the future. things could be great this time next year and you'll regret not taking the job! and even if the company goes belly-up, you can get another job". My gut says "this company has structural problems. make sure you know what you're going to do in 12 months". I'm at the point in my career where I need to take some risks in order to get ahead, and this seems like a promotion and risk, all at the same time.
I had a friend in exactly the same situation a few years ago--she could have written your question word-for-word back then.
She took the new job, which required her moving four states away. Things went sour, the company split up, and she moved back to her home state all within five months, despite being very hopeful that the new company would in fact take off some day. She managed to get a different job with her old company, but the pay was far less (though it left her with much more free time).
I do understand (and agree) with your comments regarding needing to take risks, but I read your question as though you already know better and probably shouldn't take the job.
Any way to make your commute less hellish?
posted by TinWhistle at 7:03 AM on June 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
She took the new job, which required her moving four states away. Things went sour, the company split up, and she moved back to her home state all within five months, despite being very hopeful that the new company would in fact take off some day. She managed to get a different job with her old company, but the pay was far less (though it left her with much more free time).
I do understand (and agree) with your comments regarding needing to take risks, but I read your question as though you already know better and probably shouldn't take the job.
Any way to make your commute less hellish?
posted by TinWhistle at 7:03 AM on June 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Unprofitable companies are often takeover targets, or become leveraged buyout opportunities for current management, or small groups of hostile investors/turnaround specialists. If you join such a firm, knowing full well that such ownership changes are a real possibility, and feel you can also survive the inevitable short term downsizing/reorganization that is the short road back to profitability, yes, it can be a good move. But it is likely to be a stressful environment, for a long time, and there is always the possibility that you'll be viewed as a "short timer" by your co-workers and immediate management, in any downsizing.
Still, if you'd be a star at the unprofitable company, and are willing to take on some risk, and some stress, go for it. At least you know you'll have a better commute, and perhaps less travel, while collecting, for however long, a better paycheck.
posted by paulsc at 7:07 AM on June 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Still, if you'd be a star at the unprofitable company, and are willing to take on some risk, and some stress, go for it. At least you know you'll have a better commute, and perhaps less travel, while collecting, for however long, a better paycheck.
posted by paulsc at 7:07 AM on June 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
I would be less concerned about the fact that the company is unprofitable and more concerned about the reasons the company is not profitable.
Some companies lose money in a particular quarter because of unusual expenses or natural disasters or other one-time things that do not reflect fundamental problems with the company or its industry or the economy.
Other companies lose money because of fundamental problems with the company or its industry or the economy.
Further, there is a connection between risk and reward. If you're looking to increase your rewards (increased pay, better job opportunities down the road) it can make sense to take on some increased risk (working for an unprofitable company that may become defunct at some point in the future.)
A lot of this revolves around the question of how you handle your new job: do you use it as a platform to cultivate new contacts and experience? Or do you use it just to collect a paycheck? The former method will hedge some of the risk of working for an unprofitable company while the latter will not do much for you.
posted by dfriedman at 7:11 AM on June 2, 2011
Some companies lose money in a particular quarter because of unusual expenses or natural disasters or other one-time things that do not reflect fundamental problems with the company or its industry or the economy.
Other companies lose money because of fundamental problems with the company or its industry or the economy.
Further, there is a connection between risk and reward. If you're looking to increase your rewards (increased pay, better job opportunities down the road) it can make sense to take on some increased risk (working for an unprofitable company that may become defunct at some point in the future.)
A lot of this revolves around the question of how you handle your new job: do you use it as a platform to cultivate new contacts and experience? Or do you use it just to collect a paycheck? The former method will hedge some of the risk of working for an unprofitable company while the latter will not do much for you.
posted by dfriedman at 7:11 AM on June 2, 2011
Best answer: Do you know there are people who specialize in taking jobs in unprofitable companies? They usually have something like "turn-around" in their title, and their job is to do just that. If you have already identified that there are structural problems, do you think you could define them, target them, and propose changes? Would your position give you the leverage to effect change?
It seems like the job has a lot of positives, and could be the right kind of risk to turn into a "feather in the cap" as it were. If it goes south, well, it wasn't your fault, and you were going to have to look for a job either now or later.
posted by whatzit at 7:33 AM on June 2, 2011
It seems like the job has a lot of positives, and could be the right kind of risk to turn into a "feather in the cap" as it were. If it goes south, well, it wasn't your fault, and you were going to have to look for a job either now or later.
posted by whatzit at 7:33 AM on June 2, 2011
Along the lines of paulsc and dfriedman - lots of companies are unprofitable for a lot of reasons. I'd say your gut is right on the money with make sure you know what you're going to do in 12 months. I mean, a lot depends on whether you're a sole breadwinner with 2 kids and a student loan, vs. have savings in the bank, and/or at a time in your life where you could move back in with mom and dad or couch-surf if things went sour.
You won't know, until you're on the inside, and maybe not even then depending on your role and the nature of their management/ownership, what direction the ship is sailing in and what they have in reserves. Just like individuals, some companies have ways of economizing they're just not using, or a way to get their hands on more funding, or a great opportunity if only they'd get out of their own way -- others are on the ropes and struggling to make their next payroll or rent check. And that's a spectrum - every case is different. Some companies have a great opportunity in the wings AND they're almost out of cash. Also like individuals - you don't know just by looking at them. That dude with the raggedy jeans may have a trust fund; that guy with the Mercedes may be parking it a different place every night to stay ahead of the tow truck.
I would interview a little differently in this case. One should always be asking the company "why should I work for you?" but it goes double here. I'd also want to talk to people as high up the chain as possible, and I think (in diplomatic language) - "I hear there are some problems. What's your plan for fixing them?" is a fair question. If they get pissed off by that one, in this case I think you haven't lost anything.
I also wouldn't settle for a real hands-off interview process where you sit down with an HR person and the hiring manager and they just keep you kinda in the dark. I might accept that for a great offer from Google, because I feel strongly that whatever it is, it's gonna be good. But in this case, they know and you know there are potential problems - their transparency or lack thereof will tell you a lot.
I would also be asking as many people in the industry as you can discretely ask what's going on with this company. Your friend has one perspective, the hiring managers have another, but the best line on it may come from people they didn't expect you to talk to - customers, vendors, competitors, etc.
Thing is, they may be working their way out of the jam and may be looking for partners to help them, or they may be looking for cannon-fodder to keep things ticking over until they can file bankruptcy or sell the assets to some company that will liquidate you.
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:46 AM on June 2, 2011
You won't know, until you're on the inside, and maybe not even then depending on your role and the nature of their management/ownership, what direction the ship is sailing in and what they have in reserves. Just like individuals, some companies have ways of economizing they're just not using, or a way to get their hands on more funding, or a great opportunity if only they'd get out of their own way -- others are on the ropes and struggling to make their next payroll or rent check. And that's a spectrum - every case is different. Some companies have a great opportunity in the wings AND they're almost out of cash. Also like individuals - you don't know just by looking at them. That dude with the raggedy jeans may have a trust fund; that guy with the Mercedes may be parking it a different place every night to stay ahead of the tow truck.
I would interview a little differently in this case. One should always be asking the company "why should I work for you?" but it goes double here. I'd also want to talk to people as high up the chain as possible, and I think (in diplomatic language) - "I hear there are some problems. What's your plan for fixing them?" is a fair question. If they get pissed off by that one, in this case I think you haven't lost anything.
I also wouldn't settle for a real hands-off interview process where you sit down with an HR person and the hiring manager and they just keep you kinda in the dark. I might accept that for a great offer from Google, because I feel strongly that whatever it is, it's gonna be good. But in this case, they know and you know there are potential problems - their transparency or lack thereof will tell you a lot.
I would also be asking as many people in the industry as you can discretely ask what's going on with this company. Your friend has one perspective, the hiring managers have another, but the best line on it may come from people they didn't expect you to talk to - customers, vendors, competitors, etc.
Thing is, they may be working their way out of the jam and may be looking for partners to help them, or they may be looking for cannon-fodder to keep things ticking over until they can file bankruptcy or sell the assets to some company that will liquidate you.
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:46 AM on June 2, 2011
Oh, and if you do go to work for this company, bank as much of that great paycheck as possible, in case you need it. :-)
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:46 AM on June 2, 2011
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:46 AM on June 2, 2011
Best answer: I work for an unprofitable company now....Do not do it. This is how it goes:
1) A lot of the projects are focused on cost savings rather than making money.
2) Money is always short, forget about getting bonuses, and there's a perfect excuse not to give you higher than the average raise.
3) The overall environment is usually bad, people are leaving and in turn the ones that stay behind are usually doing the work or two or three people.
My advice is to get something better if you have a choice.
posted by The1andonly at 7:50 AM on June 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
1) A lot of the projects are focused on cost savings rather than making money.
2) Money is always short, forget about getting bonuses, and there's a perfect excuse not to give you higher than the average raise.
3) The overall environment is usually bad, people are leaving and in turn the ones that stay behind are usually doing the work or two or three people.
My advice is to get something better if you have a choice.
posted by The1andonly at 7:50 AM on June 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: If you have already identified that there are structural problems, do you think you could define them, target them, and propose changes? Would your position give you the leverage to effect change?
I think this is a very salient question. I'll have SOME leverage, mostly because I'll have the ear and the eye of the people who have the actual leverage.
I work for an unprofitable company now....Do not do it
That's very unequivocal. I can certainly see the logic in the points mentioned, as well. This is some major food for thought.
posted by taumeson at 8:01 AM on June 2, 2011
I think this is a very salient question. I'll have SOME leverage, mostly because I'll have the ear and the eye of the people who have the actual leverage.
I work for an unprofitable company now....Do not do it
That's very unequivocal. I can certainly see the logic in the points mentioned, as well. This is some major food for thought.
posted by taumeson at 8:01 AM on June 2, 2011
would I? yep, I have, and would again. but then again I work freelance, and you need to be very comfortable with the idea of perhaps having to find new work on short notice. it also helps if it's a profitable group within the company, or even better if you personally are generating profit for them above the cost of having you on payroll. but if a friday evening "that's it, show's over, nobody bother coming in on monday" would screw you then I wouldn't take the risk.
posted by russm at 8:04 AM on June 2, 2011
posted by russm at 8:04 AM on June 2, 2011
Best answer: My mother took over a financially unstable organization ten years ago, agreeing to sign on as in interim executive director and work to pull the organization back into functioning. She did so knowing that the organization was suffering from years of mismanagement, and she did so knowing that it would be tough. She's still there more than ten years later and has been one of their longest serving executive directors (no longer interim) and has overseen expansion. Were you in the same type of position - being invited in to take a long hard look at what needs fixing - then I'd say go for it. That's an excellent circumstance under which to take a position with an unprofitable organization if you are the kind of personality that my mother is: objective, analytical, creative, calculating and not afraid to unload some firepower. For what it's worth, it doesn't really sound like that's the opportunity you're being offered.
On the other hand, the first thing that my mother did when she got there was to fire nearly everyone and develop new faces and skills on the board of directors. Incompetence and inefficiency had sunk into the bones of the organization, and she was not going to turn the place around if people's habits were already set. I'd be careful here, because this could mean YOU if someone else comes along at a later time to save the organization (from itself).
posted by jph at 8:17 AM on June 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, the first thing that my mother did when she got there was to fire nearly everyone and develop new faces and skills on the board of directors. Incompetence and inefficiency had sunk into the bones of the organization, and she was not going to turn the place around if people's habits were already set. I'd be careful here, because this could mean YOU if someone else comes along at a later time to save the organization (from itself).
posted by jph at 8:17 AM on June 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hit post too quickly. Things to consider include:
- How long has current management been there? Are these the new guys who need fresh blood (good) or are these the old guys who hit the iceberg (bad)?
- From whence this lack of profitability: Is this a market change resulting in the company's obsolescence? Or is this a shockwave from the recession handled poorly?
- Will it be professionally helpful to you to experience failure? Working on a losing political campaign was one of the best educations I ever got.
- What is your tolerance for volatility? Are you able to turn on a dime or are you a rock? I know we all like to pride ourselves on being soooooo flexible, but well - I'm not. I'm pretty rigid. Ultimately, in these situations I feel like Cassandra - able to see the horrible things that are coming, but powerless to avoid them.
posted by jph at 8:28 AM on June 2, 2011
- How long has current management been there? Are these the new guys who need fresh blood (good) or are these the old guys who hit the iceberg (bad)?
- From whence this lack of profitability: Is this a market change resulting in the company's obsolescence? Or is this a shockwave from the recession handled poorly?
- Will it be professionally helpful to you to experience failure? Working on a losing political campaign was one of the best educations I ever got.
- What is your tolerance for volatility? Are you able to turn on a dime or are you a rock? I know we all like to pride ourselves on being soooooo flexible, but well - I'm not. I'm pretty rigid. Ultimately, in these situations I feel like Cassandra - able to see the horrible things that are coming, but powerless to avoid them.
posted by jph at 8:28 AM on June 2, 2011
Response by poster: For what it's worth, it doesn't really sound like that's the opportunity you're being offered... Incompetence and inefficiency had sunk into the bones of the organization, and she was not going to turn the place around if people's habits were already set.
Another great point. The company was profitable, people became a bit stagnant and are having a hard time righting the ship. I'd help free them up to do that, but I'm not any kind of VP or anything.
posted by taumeson at 8:31 AM on June 2, 2011
Another great point. The company was profitable, people became a bit stagnant and are having a hard time righting the ship. I'd help free them up to do that, but I'm not any kind of VP or anything.
posted by taumeson at 8:31 AM on June 2, 2011
Another thing to consider would be the company's assets and long-term outlook.
Apple and Microsoft have enough cash on hand that they could close up shop, stop selling products, and still continue to operate at current expenditure levels for a few years before running out of money.
If they started shrinking, reducing expenses, and cashing in assets, both companies could keep chugging on for a lifetime.
..or is this company knocking on death's door?
posted by schmod at 8:40 AM on June 2, 2011
Apple and Microsoft have enough cash on hand that they could close up shop, stop selling products, and still continue to operate at current expenditure levels for a few years before running out of money.
If they started shrinking, reducing expenses, and cashing in assets, both companies could keep chugging on for a lifetime.
..or is this company knocking on death's door?
posted by schmod at 8:40 AM on June 2, 2011
Just came here to point out the obvious - late & bounced paychecks really suck. Being forced to take your vacation when the company tells you to (because that money is kept separate) sucks. Having to take a paycut so the company can make payroll sucks. Not being able to get the infrastructure you need (in my case IT/computers/etc) sucks. In general, working for a company with no money is not worth the hassle. Now, this might not be applicable to your situation, but are you sure this new company can even afford this higher salary they are promising? Will the fact that you make good money also mean you'll be the first one cut, purely for financial reasons? As someone who has been through all of the above, I cannot recommend it. At all. Getting out was the best thing I did.
posted by cgg at 8:55 AM on June 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by cgg at 8:55 AM on June 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Echoing the1andonly. I took a job with a big salary hike at a company that wasn't profitable (though I didn't know it at the time), and it was a miserable experience. People were just spinning their wheels there, surfing the internet or even applying for new jobs during their work hours, because everyone had gotten so cynical about the company's chances of succeeding. No matter how good your work ethic is, it's really difficult to maintain it when you can see 5 coworkers' monitors filled with facebook and bejewled from 8-5... No, let's be honest, people only showed up 9-4:30 with a long lunch in the middle.
When someone quit there was no replacement hired, so more and more tasks were added to the piles of people who were only willing to put in 50% to begin with. My efforts to do my job were hindered by a complete lack of any budget to even maintain the equipment we needed to keep going, much less upgrade to provide a better customer experience or help our sales people be more efficient. There was no room for the company to take risks, because it had so little cash available, but without taking risks nothing could change.
I worked there for 3 years before the place finally went bankrupt, and the only raise I got was when my coworker quit, leaving me as the last person in my department. Even taking on his work on top of mine, there would have been no raise if I hadn't made some noise about leaving.
I think everyone starts a new job thinking they will have a fresh perspective and great ideas for the company, but if you read through the many how-can-I-be-awesome-at-this-new-job? questions around here, some of the most common advice is to not rock the boat at first. Unless you are specifically being hired to "turn the ship around," so to speak, your grandest plans are unlikely to be welcomed, especially if they're the kind of grand plans that really can turn a company around. Those kinds of plans usually require lots of tough decisions, lots of hurt feelings as projects and people get cut or replaced. People don't want to hear that from the new guy, especially not from the new guy who wasn't hired specifically for that purpose.
posted by vytae at 8:59 AM on June 2, 2011
When someone quit there was no replacement hired, so more and more tasks were added to the piles of people who were only willing to put in 50% to begin with. My efforts to do my job were hindered by a complete lack of any budget to even maintain the equipment we needed to keep going, much less upgrade to provide a better customer experience or help our sales people be more efficient. There was no room for the company to take risks, because it had so little cash available, but without taking risks nothing could change.
I worked there for 3 years before the place finally went bankrupt, and the only raise I got was when my coworker quit, leaving me as the last person in my department. Even taking on his work on top of mine, there would have been no raise if I hadn't made some noise about leaving.
I think everyone starts a new job thinking they will have a fresh perspective and great ideas for the company, but if you read through the many how-can-I-be-awesome-at-this-new-job? questions around here, some of the most common advice is to not rock the boat at first. Unless you are specifically being hired to "turn the ship around," so to speak, your grandest plans are unlikely to be welcomed, especially if they're the kind of grand plans that really can turn a company around. Those kinds of plans usually require lots of tough decisions, lots of hurt feelings as projects and people get cut or replaced. People don't want to hear that from the new guy, especially not from the new guy who wasn't hired specifically for that purpose.
posted by vytae at 8:59 AM on June 2, 2011
The critical bit is whether you are the only person who knows the company needs structural changes. If you are, and you are also the person who can implement them, then you have a chance to make the trip worthwhile. If you know the changes need to be made and you cannot influence them then you are pretty much at the mercy of whatever plans the company has to go ahead, and it would take a lot of confidence in those to make the move a good one.
However. I made a move like this with the knowledge that I could improve profitability, and as soon as the organization got profitable it was sold. A year later it was gutted anyway.
posted by jet_silver at 9:11 AM on June 2, 2011
However. I made a move like this with the knowledge that I could improve profitability, and as soon as the organization got profitable it was sold. A year later it was gutted anyway.
posted by jet_silver at 9:11 AM on June 2, 2011
If the company is publicly traded, and you are at all familiar with financial reporting, you might want to get a copy of their most recent annual report, and the last 2 or 3 quarterly SEC Form 10Q filings, prior to interviewing. Unless the company is a byzantine multi-national, you can often spot structural issues in the financial reports. If the company isn't public, you might have trouble getting recent financials, but you can still run news searches for the company and its products/services, to learn of recent changes, positive or negative, to their business environment.
Knowing the company is having hard times can also help you negotiate non-payroll benefits and perks going in, if you can arrange some means of assuring they'll actually be delivered. As an example, I once took a job at company hemorrhaging red ink, on the promise I'd be sent to specialized vendor training, soon after being hired. I was, and got about $30,000 worth of technical training I never would have, otherwise. I've also seen people get 401K matches that were pretty generous, and have waiting periods for health insurance and other group benefits waived. If you are really a sportin' type, you might find that you are offered equity, as incentive to stick around for a full turnaround. If you don't understand equity offers, vesting, and the tax implications of employee stock options, you should have such an offer looked over by an accountant or lawyer familiar with such matters. Sometimes, such offers become very nice, if you get stock grants at depressed share prices, and can wait to sell as the stock price tracks improved performance. But that's not always the case, and stock options that don't perform, or that expire on certain events or schedules, can cost you big time.
posted by paulsc at 9:13 AM on June 2, 2011
Knowing the company is having hard times can also help you negotiate non-payroll benefits and perks going in, if you can arrange some means of assuring they'll actually be delivered. As an example, I once took a job at company hemorrhaging red ink, on the promise I'd be sent to specialized vendor training, soon after being hired. I was, and got about $30,000 worth of technical training I never would have, otherwise. I've also seen people get 401K matches that were pretty generous, and have waiting periods for health insurance and other group benefits waived. If you are really a sportin' type, you might find that you are offered equity, as incentive to stick around for a full turnaround. If you don't understand equity offers, vesting, and the tax implications of employee stock options, you should have such an offer looked over by an accountant or lawyer familiar with such matters. Sometimes, such offers become very nice, if you get stock grants at depressed share prices, and can wait to sell as the stock price tracks improved performance. But that's not always the case, and stock options that don't perform, or that expire on certain events or schedules, can cost you big time.
posted by paulsc at 9:13 AM on June 2, 2011
Response by poster: @paulsc -- good points. Not a publicly traded company, but I do have some decent perks and the waiting periods did get waived.
So at least the company admits that they need people to help turn it around. I even flat asked out a C-level employee if the company was going to be here in a year. His answer was "Well, yeah, I think so." This is not a 20 person company, this is a 1500 person company.
posted by taumeson at 9:23 AM on June 2, 2011
So at least the company admits that they need people to help turn it around. I even flat asked out a C-level employee if the company was going to be here in a year. His answer was "Well, yeah, I think so." This is not a 20 person company, this is a 1500 person company.
posted by taumeson at 9:23 AM on June 2, 2011
he organization is, while not in a "tailspin", definitely unprofitable and needing to correct course
doesn't necessarily worry me as much as
this company has structural problems
Structural problems, to me, sound like "management problems" or "powerful people who suck" problems. If that's the case, then for god's sake, do not take the job. It won't matter how good you are at your job, if there's someone at the top who's making things suck, your smart ideas will go nowhere. And then you'll hate your job, because there are few things worse than working for people who you don't respect.
posted by Afroblanco at 10:05 AM on June 2, 2011
doesn't necessarily worry me as much as
this company has structural problems
Structural problems, to me, sound like "management problems" or "powerful people who suck" problems. If that's the case, then for god's sake, do not take the job. It won't matter how good you are at your job, if there's someone at the top who's making things suck, your smart ideas will go nowhere. And then you'll hate your job, because there are few things worse than working for people who you don't respect.
posted by Afroblanco at 10:05 AM on June 2, 2011
Will you learn something new/valuable? Then take it.
Will you risk finances, finding a better job, etc? Then don't.
Example: Best friend moved with fiance out to CA for a sports radio gig. Three months later, fiance was fired from radio gig. He never worked in radio (or really anything) again. That was in 2000.
posted by stormpooper at 10:32 AM on June 2, 2011
Will you risk finances, finding a better job, etc? Then don't.
Example: Best friend moved with fiance out to CA for a sports radio gig. Three months later, fiance was fired from radio gig. He never worked in radio (or really anything) again. That was in 2000.
posted by stormpooper at 10:32 AM on June 2, 2011
Most businesses in this world are high risk. Any business could turn around and go bust next year.
The question for you is - do you have any dependents, do you have any major commitments that take priority over you career development?
If not, absolutely go for it. Life is about taking (calculated) risks. It could all go bust but even if it does, if it means you get more experience and further up the chain, then it's a good thing to do.
Save as much money, learn as much as you can from the people around you, establish relationships so that even if it does fall apart, something else may come out of it anyway.
posted by mleigh at 3:14 PM on June 2, 2011
The question for you is - do you have any dependents, do you have any major commitments that take priority over you career development?
If not, absolutely go for it. Life is about taking (calculated) risks. It could all go bust but even if it does, if it means you get more experience and further up the chain, then it's a good thing to do.
Save as much money, learn as much as you can from the people around you, establish relationships so that even if it does fall apart, something else may come out of it anyway.
posted by mleigh at 3:14 PM on June 2, 2011
If you can negotiate a severance in case you get laid off up front, they realize they have a problem enough to fix it and you get a safety net.
If even the thought of mentioning it makes them freak out and not consider you, they will crash and burn and lay you off in the process as they drown in denial.
posted by Gucky at 4:23 PM on June 2, 2011
If even the thought of mentioning it makes them freak out and not consider you, they will crash and burn and lay you off in the process as they drown in denial.
posted by Gucky at 4:23 PM on June 2, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by litnerd at 7:00 AM on June 2, 2011 [1 favorite]