Strict Parents
May 23, 2011 8:19 PM Subscribe
My parents are unusual, and, by virtue of being their daughter, so am I. Some of their idiosyncrasies and ways of doing things I appreciate and employ myself; others have alienated my friends and boyfriends for as long as I can remember. Are these things really so bad? How can I explain to my friends that this is just how my parents are?
My parents are different than other parents in many ways. It's not so much in the way that they parent, per se, but just the way that they operate in their day to day lives. Both are kind, generous and pleasant people with excellent senses of humor and wickedly intelligent minds, and both love me with all their hearts.
However, the older I get, the more I've begun to realize that the way they run their lives and mine (I still live with them; am a grad student in my early 20s) alienates anyone who starts to put two and two together.
For example, my father is anal retentive about maintaining our finances, our cars, and our computers. Since my parents are the cosigners or whatever on my bank accounts and credit cards, I have to report every charge I make to him so that he can cross reference it with our bank and credit card statements to make sure our identities haven't been compromised and that we haven't been inadvertently double charged for anything. Technically I have to do this every day and if I don't he gets fussy if I don't have a valid reason for not reporting the charges. When I get gas for my car, I must save my receipt and record information off my dashboard so he can enter it into his records to track my car's state of being and mileage.
When I was younger I couldn't have friends over or go anywhere without giving my parents multiple days notice so that my parents could be prepared to have company. To this day I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do because it would disrupt my parents' days too much. There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on.
The other day my boyfriend offered to get my car gassed and I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do after he filled the tank. He was dumbstruck when he realized I was serious, and further concerned when I detailed some of the other things that are idiosyncratic about my life. I am really starting to feel like a freak because I am dependent upon my parents and must play by their rules until I finish grad school. I have no idea how to evaluate these things anymore. Are my parents extreme?
If they are, what do I do about it when my friends and my boyfriend notice how dramatically structured my life is when it comes to the way my family works? My boyfriend is concerned my parents are abusively controlling.
My parents are different than other parents in many ways. It's not so much in the way that they parent, per se, but just the way that they operate in their day to day lives. Both are kind, generous and pleasant people with excellent senses of humor and wickedly intelligent minds, and both love me with all their hearts.
However, the older I get, the more I've begun to realize that the way they run their lives and mine (I still live with them; am a grad student in my early 20s) alienates anyone who starts to put two and two together.
For example, my father is anal retentive about maintaining our finances, our cars, and our computers. Since my parents are the cosigners or whatever on my bank accounts and credit cards, I have to report every charge I make to him so that he can cross reference it with our bank and credit card statements to make sure our identities haven't been compromised and that we haven't been inadvertently double charged for anything. Technically I have to do this every day and if I don't he gets fussy if I don't have a valid reason for not reporting the charges. When I get gas for my car, I must save my receipt and record information off my dashboard so he can enter it into his records to track my car's state of being and mileage.
When I was younger I couldn't have friends over or go anywhere without giving my parents multiple days notice so that my parents could be prepared to have company. To this day I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do because it would disrupt my parents' days too much. There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on.
The other day my boyfriend offered to get my car gassed and I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do after he filled the tank. He was dumbstruck when he realized I was serious, and further concerned when I detailed some of the other things that are idiosyncratic about my life. I am really starting to feel like a freak because I am dependent upon my parents and must play by their rules until I finish grad school. I have no idea how to evaluate these things anymore. Are my parents extreme?
If they are, what do I do about it when my friends and my boyfriend notice how dramatically structured my life is when it comes to the way my family works? My boyfriend is concerned my parents are abusively controlling.
Are my parents extreme?Yeah, they're a little extreme. Most people in their early 20s function as independent adults and don't have to report back to their parents. This wouldn't have been super strange behavior when you were a child, but it's weird that they're still treating you like a child when you're an adult.
Is there any way that you can get a credit card or bank account that they haven't cosigned? I don't think it's unreasonable for you to declare independence at this stage in your life.
posted by craichead at 8:25 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
You're not gonna go against your parents (I'm sorry, but really...) crazy habits until you move out of the house. You should look into ways to do this. However, you need to learn how to balance the check book, etc, for yourself.
Your new reason for not immediately reporting every penny spent? "Because being that level of control freak is not how people should treat each other," the first time. "Because," the second time.
posted by notsnot at 8:26 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your new reason for not immediately reporting every penny spent? "Because being that level of control freak is not how people should treat each other," the first time. "Because," the second time.
posted by notsnot at 8:26 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Additionally to my comment above, I would recommend preparing your parents for the idea that they won't be your co-signors and won't have access to your financial/personal information once you move out (assuming that is your plan). If they need days to adjust to company they're going to need years to adjust to that idea, I suspect.
posted by cranberrymonger at 8:26 PM on May 23, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by cranberrymonger at 8:26 PM on May 23, 2011 [10 favorites]
I don't think expecting you to tell them when you're spending money from their accounts is extreme or controlling. They have their way of managing things, and you've gotten to the age where you realize you would rather do things differently. It sounds like you're at a natural point in your life where their access to your daily life should be diminishing. This is generally why most people your age prefer to live in a separate home from their parents.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:27 PM on May 23, 2011 [15 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:27 PM on May 23, 2011 [15 favorites]
I think other people are understating the degree to which your situation is extreme. If it is so bad that you've never once in your life been able to bring a friend to your home because it would be so disruptive and problematic I think it has to be looked at as abusively controlling. People are answering the way they are because you've provided only two examples... except you say there are others but you can't list them because it makes you feel worse. So I'm guessing these are only two of many and the relatively innocuous things to boot.
So we have a hard time judging the restrictions because we don't have the full picture. But we can judge the effects, and if the effects are that a person in her early 20s has never been able to bring a single person to her home because of the controlling nature of her parents, that's terribly extreme.
posted by Justinian at 8:32 PM on May 23, 2011 [37 favorites]
So we have a hard time judging the restrictions because we don't have the full picture. But we can judge the effects, and if the effects are that a person in her early 20s has never been able to bring a single person to her home because of the controlling nature of her parents, that's terribly extreme.
posted by Justinian at 8:32 PM on May 23, 2011 [37 favorites]
I track my mileage and gas costs; if someone borrowed my car I'd expect them to do the same. It would be weird if I expected someone who lives with me to do that with their car just because that's how I run my life, though.
And yeah, you should be getting your own accounts and stuff. You living with them is a choice you've made; you have other options available to you at this stage, whether you think you do or not.
posted by SMPA at 8:34 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
And yeah, you should be getting your own accounts and stuff. You living with them is a choice you've made; you have other options available to you at this stage, whether you think you do or not.
posted by SMPA at 8:34 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
My boyfriend is concerned my parents are abusively controlling.
I think the answer to this depends on what happens if you don't do soomething they're expecting? Do they get really nervous or upset and you're just placating them, or do they get crazy angry and rail against you for breaking The Rules? Like I know people who are just really anxious about things and so people try to just ease their stress in the short term. But this is a situation where, in your example, you're doing things their way to keep the peace and because it's no big deal and they're supporting you. However if you're doing this because you're afraid of them or because they're mean or terrible r threaten you, then yeah you're in a bad plce.
And really, it's your home too. So some of this is just finding your normal and comparing it against other people's normal. If inviting people over throws them off their routine, that's one thing. If they think you shouldn't have people over because that's the way your supposed to do it, that's an entirely other thing [i.e. their weirdnesses are altering their feelings about how the world works, some people are social, some are less social, both are okay ways to be].
So yeah, I'd say they're a little extreme, but if they're otherwise loving and good people to you, that's not a bad thing in and of itself if it's a just a "my house, my rules" thing. However if they're judgmental and weird about anyone who is different, or if they don't have room for other people [do you have your boyfriend over?] that's in problem territory for me personally.
posted by jessamyn at 8:34 PM on May 23, 2011 [20 favorites]
I think the answer to this depends on what happens if you don't do soomething they're expecting? Do they get really nervous or upset and you're just placating them, or do they get crazy angry and rail against you for breaking The Rules? Like I know people who are just really anxious about things and so people try to just ease their stress in the short term. But this is a situation where, in your example, you're doing things their way to keep the peace and because it's no big deal and they're supporting you. However if you're doing this because you're afraid of them or because they're mean or terrible r threaten you, then yeah you're in a bad plce.
And really, it's your home too. So some of this is just finding your normal and comparing it against other people's normal. If inviting people over throws them off their routine, that's one thing. If they think you shouldn't have people over because that's the way your supposed to do it, that's an entirely other thing [i.e. their weirdnesses are altering their feelings about how the world works, some people are social, some are less social, both are okay ways to be].
So yeah, I'd say they're a little extreme, but if they're otherwise loving and good people to you, that's not a bad thing in and of itself if it's a just a "my house, my rules" thing. However if they're judgmental and weird about anyone who is different, or if they don't have room for other people [do you have your boyfriend over?] that's in problem territory for me personally.
posted by jessamyn at 8:34 PM on May 23, 2011 [20 favorites]
yeah they sound pretty extreme and anal, but you sound concerned and anxious in a pretty darn normal way. there's probably not a perfect way to talk to your boyfriend about it. good on him that he's concerned for you - that in itself, by the way, is a pretty fair indication that your parents' idiosyncrasies haven't harmed you - it looks like you're seeking out boys to date that aren't like them, rather than seeking automatically to duplicate the home structures in your adult life. i think you should just be honest and calm about the issue with your friends / boyfriend, and if you're ok, tell them you're ok, and if you're not ok, tell them that too. i'm just not getting the sense that your folks are like harmfully idiosyncratic - you sound good.
posted by facetious at 8:35 PM on May 23, 2011
posted by facetious at 8:35 PM on May 23, 2011
I don't find the reporting of gas, mileage, etc all that weird. My parents always kept a small notebook of this sort of stuff. They would use it to calculate their mileage every time they filled up the car. It the number changed dramatically they figured it was time to have the car looked at by a competent mechanic.
When I bought my first car I got a small notebook and started writing down date, cash, mileage and gallons bought. I never calculate the mileage though. It's only two lines per entry and you can fit 10 or 'fill-ups' one one page. Even now, 25 or so years, and three cars, later I'm still working on the first notebook. It's kinda fun to look back on how 'cheap' gas was.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 8:41 PM on May 23, 2011
When I bought my first car I got a small notebook and started writing down date, cash, mileage and gallons bought. I never calculate the mileage though. It's only two lines per entry and you can fit 10 or 'fill-ups' one one page. Even now, 25 or so years, and three cars, later I'm still working on the first notebook. It's kinda fun to look back on how 'cheap' gas was.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 8:41 PM on May 23, 2011
I have to report every charge I make to him so that he can cross reference it with our bank and credit card statements
Whether or not it's abusive, your dad is inappropriately, bizarrely controlling. If he's the cosigner on your loans, he has a stake in verifying that you're being financially prudent because if you're financially irresponsible, he's on the hook for your mistakes. However, that means it would be reasonable for him to expect you to get/keep a job, to pass your classes, and to pay your bills on time. It would even be reasonable for him to ask for proof that you are repaying your loans on time or are setting aside appropriate savings so that you will be able to repay them when they come due.
It is absolutely not reasonable to expect an adult in her 20s, even his daughter, and even someone for whom he has cosigned loans, to report daily on every expense she charges. It's also just plain unhealthy to obsessively review every charge against the possibility of identity theft. Moreover, you don't need a cosigner on your bank account. You don't. If your parents support you financially, they might insist on being named on your bank account as a condition of contributing money to it, but there is no reason from the perspective of the bank that your parents need to be on the account. Ditto your credit cards. By now, your credit history is almost certainly good enough that you could apply for your own card and be approved without a cosigner.
I'm going to say something that may sound a little harsh. I hope you'll believe that I say this out of concern and not judgment. Your situation is highly unusual and, frankly, inappropriate. You're an adult, but you're not living like one. Some parents are strict, and their minor children need to accept that and wait for adulthood. "Strict" parents of a twenty-something grad student aren't actually being strict. They're perpetuating an unhealthy dynamic and you're participating in it. I strongly suggest you take steps to get out of it.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:47 PM on May 23, 2011 [51 favorites]
Whether or not it's abusive, your dad is inappropriately, bizarrely controlling. If he's the cosigner on your loans, he has a stake in verifying that you're being financially prudent because if you're financially irresponsible, he's on the hook for your mistakes. However, that means it would be reasonable for him to expect you to get/keep a job, to pass your classes, and to pay your bills on time. It would even be reasonable for him to ask for proof that you are repaying your loans on time or are setting aside appropriate savings so that you will be able to repay them when they come due.
It is absolutely not reasonable to expect an adult in her 20s, even his daughter, and even someone for whom he has cosigned loans, to report daily on every expense she charges. It's also just plain unhealthy to obsessively review every charge against the possibility of identity theft. Moreover, you don't need a cosigner on your bank account. You don't. If your parents support you financially, they might insist on being named on your bank account as a condition of contributing money to it, but there is no reason from the perspective of the bank that your parents need to be on the account. Ditto your credit cards. By now, your credit history is almost certainly good enough that you could apply for your own card and be approved without a cosigner.
I'm going to say something that may sound a little harsh. I hope you'll believe that I say this out of concern and not judgment. Your situation is highly unusual and, frankly, inappropriate. You're an adult, but you're not living like one. Some parents are strict, and their minor children need to accept that and wait for adulthood. "Strict" parents of a twenty-something grad student aren't actually being strict. They're perpetuating an unhealthy dynamic and you're participating in it. I strongly suggest you take steps to get out of it.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:47 PM on May 23, 2011 [51 favorites]
Are my parents extreme?
I think the answer is clearly, yes. It's not really possible to tell from this description whether "abusively controlling" is the right description, "severe ocd" is another explanation that springs to mind. For comparison, I had my own bank account that my parents had no need to see the details of around 16 (though they had their name on it until some point in college, not sure exactly when), and my own non-cosigned credit card around 19. My parents do record the details of mileage and gas purchases off the dash in their car as you describe, so that particular issue isn't that crazy. But they never made me do it, and when I did for my first car (sort of out of inherited habit I guess) it was for MY records, not theirs -- they had no interest in looking at it / using it to check up on me. Really it's just kind of useful to keep on eye out for sudden drops in gas mileage. Having to do this for their records is sort of odd if it is really your car. But it is the financial / guest things that seem fairly extreme to me.
When you say you are dependent on them, do you mean that they are paying for grad school? I'm just a little confused because most grad students are able to be financially independent, though perhaps underpaid or forced to take out loans. When you are a teenager your parents may need to be cosigners on bank accounts/CCs, but there is really not much need for this after the age of 18, and if you have a stipend (or even not, if you just have some spare money) you should have no problem getting your own bank account. It's really hard to know what to advise in this situation though beyond practical things like, "you know there's nothing really stopping you from applying for your own, non-cosigned, account / credit card, right?"
posted by advil at 8:48 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think the answer is clearly, yes. It's not really possible to tell from this description whether "abusively controlling" is the right description, "severe ocd" is another explanation that springs to mind. For comparison, I had my own bank account that my parents had no need to see the details of around 16 (though they had their name on it until some point in college, not sure exactly when), and my own non-cosigned credit card around 19. My parents do record the details of mileage and gas purchases off the dash in their car as you describe, so that particular issue isn't that crazy. But they never made me do it, and when I did for my first car (sort of out of inherited habit I guess) it was for MY records, not theirs -- they had no interest in looking at it / using it to check up on me. Really it's just kind of useful to keep on eye out for sudden drops in gas mileage. Having to do this for their records is sort of odd if it is really your car. But it is the financial / guest things that seem fairly extreme to me.
When you say you are dependent on them, do you mean that they are paying for grad school? I'm just a little confused because most grad students are able to be financially independent, though perhaps underpaid or forced to take out loans. When you are a teenager your parents may need to be cosigners on bank accounts/CCs, but there is really not much need for this after the age of 18, and if you have a stipend (or even not, if you just have some spare money) you should have no problem getting your own bank account. It's really hard to know what to advise in this situation though beyond practical things like, "you know there's nothing really stopping you from applying for your own, non-cosigned, account / credit card, right?"
posted by advil at 8:48 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
They are extreme. You have to decide whether this is important to you or not, and then if it is, how important it is. I am also in my early 20s and am moving back home to get my MA degree. My parents and I have linked bank accounts, but they're my money, so my business. We share a credit card that we talk about once a month or so regarding charges. I don't drive their car. I go out, come home, etc when I want without disturbing people. They don't mind if I bring someone home but if I was going to throw a dinner party they would want some notice. My stepdad is a bit anal about home security/door locking/money/his stuff (so...a lot of stuff) and we sometimes argue about my perceived lackadaisical attitude towards some of those things, but they would never be as controlling or present in my life as your parents. I get upset when they ask me when I am coming home, if I don't have a set itinerary.
But, this is how they and I manage our lives together. It is how I grew up. You clearly grew up in a different environment. Now, seeing other people's experiences, you have to decide whether or not you are bothered by yours, if and how you want to address them, and what your desired outcome is. There are clearly some hard boundaries if you are dependent on them for money, but there may be room for negotiation. If you want to.
posted by hepta at 9:02 PM on May 23, 2011
But, this is how they and I manage our lives together. It is how I grew up. You clearly grew up in a different environment. Now, seeing other people's experiences, you have to decide whether or not you are bothered by yours, if and how you want to address them, and what your desired outcome is. There are clearly some hard boundaries if you are dependent on them for money, but there may be room for negotiation. If you want to.
posted by hepta at 9:02 PM on May 23, 2011
Well I have a kid about your age, a bit younger, at home and just graduated from collage (yea!). I try to insist he text me at least once a week or so that he's still alive. :) (usually see him that often anyway) Me personally, I think I balanced my check book formally once years ago, so yep, your dad is at the other end of the distribution curve, you sound like a smart stable kid, I don't think mine has any more or less grasp of the 'real world' that will soon impinge on his awareness, both of you will be learning a few lessons, hopefully not too much the hard way. Good luck and do have some patience with us crazy old coots ; -)
posted by sammyo at 9:04 PM on May 23, 2011
posted by sammyo at 9:04 PM on May 23, 2011
The other day my boyfriend offered to get my car gassed and I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do after he filled the tank.Am I understanding correctly that you had to ask him "Please get the receipt and write down the mileage for me"?
If so, both of those are completely reasonable things for you to ask him to do (and if your parents are paying for the gas and the car, they're completely reasonable things for them to ask you to do).
He shouldn't freak out over them, and you shouldn't panic that he will freak out. If he did freak out, I suspect that it might have been at least in part due to the fact that you seemed panicked about it, rather than because you wanted the receipt and the mileage in and of itself.
posted by Flunkie at 9:07 PM on May 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
Anal? yes. Extreme? Kinda. But it's their money, they can be as controlling about it as they want to. It really seems like overkill to have to report expenses on a daily basis, but whatever, to each their own.
If you move out and are no longer using their money, and they still had all those requirements, then yeah, that would be controlling.... and very disturbing.
Maybe you over-reacted about the requirements for filling the tank? Meaning you might be a little anal yourself. It's not like recording the millage is that big of a hassle, lots of company cars have the same requirements. But how you word those requirements, and the importance thereof could have been really important. If you displayed a great deal of anxiety about it, your bf could have taken it as fear on your part, instead of an anal need to have it done precisely as it has to be done.
Alternatively, you could have just shrugged off your boyfriend's offer with a "nah, don't worry about it. My dad's got these really anal requirements about getting gas [insert eye roll], just not worth the hassle for you."
On another note: your parents aren't going to wake up one day and magically realize that you are an adult and no longer needs to be treated as a child. Since you are still financially dependent, I recommend very subtly starting to condition them into treating you like an adult that needs to be respected as an adult. All of the above are okay when you are a kid/early 20s young adult, but by late twenties, not so much. That's in abusively controlling territory.
posted by Neekee at 9:12 PM on May 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
If you move out and are no longer using their money, and they still had all those requirements, then yeah, that would be controlling.... and very disturbing.
Maybe you over-reacted about the requirements for filling the tank? Meaning you might be a little anal yourself. It's not like recording the millage is that big of a hassle, lots of company cars have the same requirements. But how you word those requirements, and the importance thereof could have been really important. If you displayed a great deal of anxiety about it, your bf could have taken it as fear on your part, instead of an anal need to have it done precisely as it has to be done.
Alternatively, you could have just shrugged off your boyfriend's offer with a "nah, don't worry about it. My dad's got these really anal requirements about getting gas [insert eye roll], just not worth the hassle for you."
On another note: your parents aren't going to wake up one day and magically realize that you are an adult and no longer needs to be treated as a child. Since you are still financially dependent, I recommend very subtly starting to condition them into treating you like an adult that needs to be respected as an adult. All of the above are okay when you are a kid/early 20s young adult, but by late twenties, not so much. That's in abusively controlling territory.
posted by Neekee at 9:12 PM on May 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
Before the jump I was kind of looking forward to reading about some sort of gently flaky but ultimately happy, harmless scenario. We're really into winter camping, so much so that we sometimes live in a tent in our yard in January. We're mostly raw-food vegans but we also eat bugs. Something like that.
But this doesn't sound very happy and it's not sounding very harmless.
Lots of red flags here -- "have alienated my friends and boyfriends for as long as I can remember" should make clear that there are problematic behaviours (this doesn't jive with parents who are simply "strict"), and it is worrying that you're asking "Are these things really so bad?" and seem to have an extremely limited ability to build a normal life for yourself.
I am amazed at the lack of "counseling, stat" pile-on. I think you do want to talk to a therapist of some stripe to work out how you can identify which patterns are harmful, and how you're going to get them out of your own life. It sounds like your ability to enter into a normal, healthy, happy adulthood is being compromised. There must be a lot of sadness buried into "There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on." People are focusing on the mileage and banking junk, but Justinian nails the sad part of your childhood, and if there're a pile of other things as extreme as what little you have told us...wow. Maybe you want to contact a mod and elaborate on other stuff so you give an accurate picture and get accurate responses; I don't know.
You can love your parents without being like them, and I don't think it will make you happy to be like them. It doesn't sound like you know how to not be them. As a student you should have access to a raft of counseling services -- sign yourself up.
posted by kmennie at 9:14 PM on May 23, 2011 [27 favorites]
But this doesn't sound very happy and it's not sounding very harmless.
Lots of red flags here -- "have alienated my friends and boyfriends for as long as I can remember" should make clear that there are problematic behaviours (this doesn't jive with parents who are simply "strict"), and it is worrying that you're asking "Are these things really so bad?" and seem to have an extremely limited ability to build a normal life for yourself.
I am amazed at the lack of "counseling, stat" pile-on. I think you do want to talk to a therapist of some stripe to work out how you can identify which patterns are harmful, and how you're going to get them out of your own life. It sounds like your ability to enter into a normal, healthy, happy adulthood is being compromised. There must be a lot of sadness buried into "There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on." People are focusing on the mileage and banking junk, but Justinian nails the sad part of your childhood, and if there're a pile of other things as extreme as what little you have told us...wow. Maybe you want to contact a mod and elaborate on other stuff so you give an accurate picture and get accurate responses; I don't know.
You can love your parents without being like them, and I don't think it will make you happy to be like them. It doesn't sound like you know how to not be them. As a student you should have access to a raft of counseling services -- sign yourself up.
posted by kmennie at 9:14 PM on May 23, 2011 [27 favorites]
This is actually how my parents were - admittedly though I handle my own finances, but they do their own finances how you described. I also had to give them preparation time for company.
To answer your question: "Are my parents extreme?" I think not. Certainly this is a more rigid handling than what I have encountered in the parents of my peers, but we've grown up just fine and it's just a different way of handling things.
To be honest, I think their behavior is even more appropriate the older you get, peaking at the time one would leave for college. At this point, a person's responsibility as a parent is officially over and if you continue living with them it is no longer as their child, but essentially a renter. Anything more familial should be welcomed.
I think people here - as well as people in general, those who didn't grow up in such a lifestyle - can't really understand, or at least don't try to understand it as is common for people. If people close to you really can't come to terms with your situation (The way your parents handle things, the way you handle things (whether it be similarly or not), and the fact that you are living temporarily with them) then they weren't worth much to begin with.
posted by SollosQ at 9:15 PM on May 23, 2011
To answer your question: "Are my parents extreme?" I think not. Certainly this is a more rigid handling than what I have encountered in the parents of my peers, but we've grown up just fine and it's just a different way of handling things.
To be honest, I think their behavior is even more appropriate the older you get, peaking at the time one would leave for college. At this point, a person's responsibility as a parent is officially over and if you continue living with them it is no longer as their child, but essentially a renter. Anything more familial should be welcomed.
I think people here - as well as people in general, those who didn't grow up in such a lifestyle - can't really understand, or at least don't try to understand it as is common for people. If people close to you really can't come to terms with your situation (The way your parents handle things, the way you handle things (whether it be similarly or not), and the fact that you are living temporarily with them) then they weren't worth much to begin with.
posted by SollosQ at 9:15 PM on May 23, 2011
For example, my father is anal retentive about maintaining our finances, our cars, and our computers.
You know, that's fine. His stuff, his choice, nothing wrong per se with that choice. My sole concern there is that you are able to make the logical, intellectual and emotional differentiation between "our stuff" and your stuff, between your present and your future. Do you feel capable and prepared to strike out on your own after grad school? When the time comes, are you going to be cool with cooking, doing laundry, maintaining your own car, living in your own apartment or with different people, balancing your own checkbook without reporting to your dad?
If yes, your parents have raised you in a way that enables you to be an adult, and its OK to roll with their rules because you have the tools to go out and make your own soon enough. If no, your parents stance disables your eventual autonomy and that is a serious problem at your age.
I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do
You are not a kid. You're in grad school so, you know, more than 22? You are an adult. People your age serve in the armed forces, have children, work, pay their own tuition, support families, all of that stuff. Both you and your folks need to take that on board, quickly.
At a minimum, you need to open your own bank account, today. It's easy. You must also get your own credit card so you can begin to build your own credit history. That's crucial. You can talk to your parents about looking at your average charges for food, gas, etc. over the last few years and getting them to give you a monthly stipend in that amount. You can charge and use debit to cover those costs each month and begin to manage your own money as you see fit. This is an essential life skill. If your parents won't get on board with that, that is a huge red flag.
If they are not on board, open your own bank account anyway. Put anything that is yours - birthday checks from Grandma, babysitting cash,w hatever - into that account so you can at least have the rudiments down.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:32 PM on May 23, 2011 [21 favorites]
You know, that's fine. His stuff, his choice, nothing wrong per se with that choice. My sole concern there is that you are able to make the logical, intellectual and emotional differentiation between "our stuff" and your stuff, between your present and your future. Do you feel capable and prepared to strike out on your own after grad school? When the time comes, are you going to be cool with cooking, doing laundry, maintaining your own car, living in your own apartment or with different people, balancing your own checkbook without reporting to your dad?
If yes, your parents have raised you in a way that enables you to be an adult, and its OK to roll with their rules because you have the tools to go out and make your own soon enough. If no, your parents stance disables your eventual autonomy and that is a serious problem at your age.
I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do
You are not a kid. You're in grad school so, you know, more than 22? You are an adult. People your age serve in the armed forces, have children, work, pay their own tuition, support families, all of that stuff. Both you and your folks need to take that on board, quickly.
At a minimum, you need to open your own bank account, today. It's easy. You must also get your own credit card so you can begin to build your own credit history. That's crucial. You can talk to your parents about looking at your average charges for food, gas, etc. over the last few years and getting them to give you a monthly stipend in that amount. You can charge and use debit to cover those costs each month and begin to manage your own money as you see fit. This is an essential life skill. If your parents won't get on board with that, that is a huge red flag.
If they are not on board, open your own bank account anyway. Put anything that is yours - birthday checks from Grandma, babysitting cash,w hatever - into that account so you can at least have the rudiments down.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:32 PM on May 23, 2011 [21 favorites]
"To this day I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do because it would disrupt my parents' days too much. There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on."
I'm sorry, but you're really not providing enough information here. Would it be possible for you to send the moderators an update that they could anonymize and post on your behalf? Right now, all that's really clear is that you are really freaking out about something. If you're asking for our opinion whether your parents are "normal" or not, we need a bit more information.
Although, honestly, I wouldn't get too hung up on "normal." Differing mores and cultural pluralism notwithstanding, I'm of the general opinion that parents shouldn't freak their children out all the time. If you are upset about these practices to the point where it wrecks your romances, then that should itself be enough for you to talk to them about whether they could back off a bit.
posted by d. z. wang at 9:56 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry, but you're really not providing enough information here. Would it be possible for you to send the moderators an update that they could anonymize and post on your behalf? Right now, all that's really clear is that you are really freaking out about something. If you're asking for our opinion whether your parents are "normal" or not, we need a bit more information.
Although, honestly, I wouldn't get too hung up on "normal." Differing mores and cultural pluralism notwithstanding, I'm of the general opinion that parents shouldn't freak their children out all the time. If you are upset about these practices to the point where it wrecks your romances, then that should itself be enough for you to talk to them about whether they could back off a bit.
posted by d. z. wang at 9:56 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
i don't live with my parents, but my parents do the same thing about the gas/car and the credit cards. they're in their 60s. a generational/fear of new technologies thing i think. so no, i don't think they're extreme. but i can see how other people might think they are and how they think it's weird you're still living by their rules at your age. i understand living at home while in grad school, but why are your finances and gas type stuff all wrapped up with them?
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:14 PM on May 23, 2011
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:14 PM on May 23, 2011
Are they trying to teach you good habits by having you make these daily reports? You did not mention whether you've asked to maintain your own car/bank accounts. What would happen if you did? Would you even want to?
Basically, do you have a problem with the way your family does things? Or do you just wonder if everyone else does? Because I don't think the two things you've mentioned are odd in and of themselves. My parents wanted me to keep similar records while they were teaching me to maintain my car/finances/etc. I don't think my situation was as rigid as yours seems to be, but I don't think rigidity is a necessarily something to worry about.
posted by blackunicorn at 10:29 PM on May 23, 2011
Basically, do you have a problem with the way your family does things? Or do you just wonder if everyone else does? Because I don't think the two things you've mentioned are odd in and of themselves. My parents wanted me to keep similar records while they were teaching me to maintain my car/finances/etc. I don't think my situation was as rigid as yours seems to be, but I don't think rigidity is a necessarily something to worry about.
posted by blackunicorn at 10:29 PM on May 23, 2011
Yes, your parents are on the extreme end of things. I don't doubt that they could indeed have your best interests at heart, but you need to start putting your foot down now about your need for independence. A very dear friend of mine was raised in a similarly controlling situation and basically went along with it in order to keep the peace, and because the things her mother controlled weren't worth fighting over.
And then something worth fighting over came up. And now my friend and her mother no longer speak because after years of controlling every other aspect of her daughter's behavior, the mother had no skills to handle her daughter's first independent act, which was her choice of husband.
Your parents may simply be very rigid people. But you may have to be the one who steers the situation in a way that prevents that rigidity from potentially damaging your relationship with them. Starting with opening your own bank account seems like a good beginning.
posted by corey flood at 10:31 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
And then something worth fighting over came up. And now my friend and her mother no longer speak because after years of controlling every other aspect of her daughter's behavior, the mother had no skills to handle her daughter's first independent act, which was her choice of husband.
Your parents may simply be very rigid people. But you may have to be the one who steers the situation in a way that prevents that rigidity from potentially damaging your relationship with them. Starting with opening your own bank account seems like a good beginning.
posted by corey flood at 10:31 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
With regard to the bank statements, why don't you sign up for online banking and automatic email notifications of every charge? If you can convince your father that reading every notification is an adequate way to protect against identity theft, this will achieve the same level of financial security without the constant hassling to report charges.
Have you ever lived apart from your parents, even for summer camp or vacation? If not, I recommend that you spend some time this summer on your own so all three of you can get used to the idea. Get an internship in another city, or take a short vacation with your boyfriend. Most people move out at 18 and their relationship with their parents changes drastically.
posted by acidic at 10:39 PM on May 23, 2011
Have you ever lived apart from your parents, even for summer camp or vacation? If not, I recommend that you spend some time this summer on your own so all three of you can get used to the idea. Get an internship in another city, or take a short vacation with your boyfriend. Most people move out at 18 and their relationship with their parents changes drastically.
posted by acidic at 10:39 PM on May 23, 2011
Is it at all possible that one or both of your parents is on the Autism spectrum? Obsessive record-keeping, extreme resistance to disruption in their routines, behaviours which tend to alienate other people...these are traits pretty typical of people with Aspergers Syndrome. I don't mean to rush to armchair diagnosis, but if you say they are loving parents yet they're engaging in a lot of extreme behaviours, you should consider the possibility that they're neurologically quite different to you. Have a look at some resources for people with Aspie parents and see whether anything seems familiar.
posted by embrangled at 11:00 PM on May 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by embrangled at 11:00 PM on May 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
In the end, it doesn't matter what you or any of us think of your over-controlling parents. It's their money, and they get to determine how it's spent.
Love them, respect them, and do everything you can to speed the day when you can get healthy distance and live your own, non-obsessive-compulsive life.
posted by zachawry at 11:05 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Love them, respect them, and do everything you can to speed the day when you can get healthy distance and live your own, non-obsessive-compulsive life.
posted by zachawry at 11:05 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm about mid-twenties, I still live at home due to financial and job reasons I won't go into right now, and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've brought a friend home 'spontaneously'. I dunno, that just strikes me as kind of rude (this may be influenced by how I was brought up). My parents could be extremely unkempt in holey pajamas (hi, dad), mom could be in the middle of a horrible hair-dye-job or a facial, or other such things. When I got my first credit card my mom would open and check my statements for the same reason your dad does--making sure I wasn't being swindled (and consequently asking me why the fuck I spent 40 bucks per person on a fancy meal or whatever, I'm just a kid with no concept of saving and money). And to this day my parents keep all their gas receipts and record it into monthly spending spreadsheets, as well as an eyeball of roughly how many kilometres per fill-up we've managed. Neither of my parents are autistic (although I think my mom may be slightly depressed sometimes, but that's another story).
To my boyfriend, this is absurd. He thinks lots of things my parents do are absurd, such as my parents telling me and my brother to coordinate times when we leave the house for long periods (few hours+) when they're on vacation so the house is never 'empty'. I roll my eyes a lot at my parents (less so, now; I think I am getting a little more patient with every year), but generally--their house, their (anal retentive) upkeep, whatever.
The point is whether 1) they threaten you if you don't follow their rules to the letter (if you didn't record your mileage, would your dad grumble a bit or yell and be angry), 2) if you're thus horribly unprepared to do any sort of personal upkeep without your parents (if so, your parents aren't raising you to be an independent adult, and that's a problem), and 3) do you parents have negative reactions, or you foresee they'd have negative reactions, if you voiced the idea that you'd like to be a little more independent, have your own credit card without their signing, etc? If the answer to any one of those questions is yes, then you may have a problem.
I got my parents to relax by getting my own source of income, fighting back, declare my mail and bills off-limits to them, and enforcing those limits with my own angry outbursts if need be. Yes, I fully well knew they had the best of intentions, but I want to be my own adult (even an adult still under their roof), so I enforced my boundaries. If you're perfectly okay with your current situaion, fine. But if you're not, and you identify your boundaries and find that you can't enforce them with your parents, yeah, problems galore; right now, I think it's only cautionary flags.
posted by Hakaisha at 11:16 PM on May 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
To my boyfriend, this is absurd. He thinks lots of things my parents do are absurd, such as my parents telling me and my brother to coordinate times when we leave the house for long periods (few hours+) when they're on vacation so the house is never 'empty'. I roll my eyes a lot at my parents (less so, now; I think I am getting a little more patient with every year), but generally--their house, their (anal retentive) upkeep, whatever.
The point is whether 1) they threaten you if you don't follow their rules to the letter (if you didn't record your mileage, would your dad grumble a bit or yell and be angry), 2) if you're thus horribly unprepared to do any sort of personal upkeep without your parents (if so, your parents aren't raising you to be an independent adult, and that's a problem), and 3) do you parents have negative reactions, or you foresee they'd have negative reactions, if you voiced the idea that you'd like to be a little more independent, have your own credit card without their signing, etc? If the answer to any one of those questions is yes, then you may have a problem.
I got my parents to relax by getting my own source of income, fighting back, declare my mail and bills off-limits to them, and enforcing those limits with my own angry outbursts if need be. Yes, I fully well knew they had the best of intentions, but I want to be my own adult (even an adult still under their roof), so I enforced my boundaries. If you're perfectly okay with your current situaion, fine. But if you're not, and you identify your boundaries and find that you can't enforce them with your parents, yeah, problems galore; right now, I think it's only cautionary flags.
posted by Hakaisha at 11:16 PM on May 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
Your patents are who they are. Nothing you've talked about is obsessive to the degree that I'd consider it a real dysfunction. It's the far end of a spectrum, for sure, but not that bad.
It all comes down to: why did you panic? And why didn't your boyfriend know this stuff already?
Your feelings are the key. Other people would have laughed it off. "This is going to sound nuts, but, my dad..." (eye roll) "you're gonna have to keep the receipt and write down the mileage. I know, right?". You can't do that. So, why not?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:04 AM on May 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
It all comes down to: why did you panic? And why didn't your boyfriend know this stuff already?
Your feelings are the key. Other people would have laughed it off. "This is going to sound nuts, but, my dad..." (eye roll) "you're gonna have to keep the receipt and write down the mileage. I know, right?". You can't do that. So, why not?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:04 AM on May 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
To start with, you imply that you and your folks get along just fine with all the eccentricities and are just worried about how it comes across to other people.
Then you obliquely refer to things that you may not be so comfortable with ("detailing them makes me feel worse").
The former is Addams Family kookery and your friends are just going to have to find a way to fit in until you can gain some independence and go about redefining your life. If you can laugh off all the things they find strange, then so can they.
The latter is a red flag for something more serious. If there are aspects of your home life that make you feel sad to write down in an annoymous post, maybe you're not so fine with all the quirkiness after all.
posted by londonmark at 2:13 AM on May 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
Then you obliquely refer to things that you may not be so comfortable with ("detailing them makes me feel worse").
The former is Addams Family kookery and your friends are just going to have to find a way to fit in until you can gain some independence and go about redefining your life. If you can laugh off all the things they find strange, then so can they.
The latter is a red flag for something more serious. If there are aspects of your home life that make you feel sad to write down in an annoymous post, maybe you're not so fine with all the quirkiness after all.
posted by londonmark at 2:13 AM on May 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
My parents were anal retentive about a lot of things too, and for quite some time I took on the same behaviour, even after I moved out the house.
I eventually got a girlfriend who, when I showed idiosyncratic behaviour, looked at me as if I was crazy. This made me question the behaviour. Sometimes I defended the behaviour when I saw its benefits, and most of the time it wasn't hard to make my girlfriend see the benefit of said behaviour.
More often I saw the craziness of the behaviour, and found when I let it go my life became easier and I more relaxed.
In short, some things are worth keeping, others aren't. None of it though, is worth getting in a panic about!
because I am dependent upon my parents and must play by their rules until I finish grad school
This is not true. It may feel like it is, but you are your own person. Not living with your parents my have consequences, financial or otherwise, but you can make it on your own! Do not feel trapped.
posted by charles kaapjes at 2:14 AM on May 24, 2011
I eventually got a girlfriend who, when I showed idiosyncratic behaviour, looked at me as if I was crazy. This made me question the behaviour. Sometimes I defended the behaviour when I saw its benefits, and most of the time it wasn't hard to make my girlfriend see the benefit of said behaviour.
More often I saw the craziness of the behaviour, and found when I let it go my life became easier and I more relaxed.
In short, some things are worth keeping, others aren't. None of it though, is worth getting in a panic about!
because I am dependent upon my parents and must play by their rules until I finish grad school
This is not true. It may feel like it is, but you are your own person. Not living with your parents my have consequences, financial or otherwise, but you can make it on your own! Do not feel trapped.
posted by charles kaapjes at 2:14 AM on May 24, 2011
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've brought a friend home 'spontaneously'. I dunno, that just strikes me as kind of rude (this may be influenced by how I was brought up). My parents could be extremely unkempt in holey pajamas (hi, dad), mom could be in the middle of a horrible hair-dye-job or a facial, or other such things.
I totally relate to hakaisha on this. Yes, maybe this is because of my parents, but I also think it is completely rude to just bring someone over without notice. Just because you think the house is clean enough for company doesn't necessarily mean it is. I personally think people are too casual nowadays-- I would feel incredibly uncomfortable if someone dropped by my apartment unnanounced while I'm wearing sloppy clothes or my hair is dirty. Yeah they're a friend so maybe they don't care but they're still company and decorum should still be followed. I had a roommate that thought that it was ok to have company over without straightening up first and it drove me nuts that she would have people think we were slobs.
There isn't anything abusive about strict parents per se. You really would need to update us with more information for us to say whether or not theyr're being abusive. And still, the term 'abusive' is pretty subjective.
I hated my parents rules and ways of doing things when I was younger. But now that I'm in my (early) 20s, I can fully understand their motivations for doing certain things. I wouldn't necessarily rasie my future children the same way but I totally understand them.
posted by lovelygirl at 4:11 AM on May 24, 2011
I totally relate to hakaisha on this. Yes, maybe this is because of my parents, but I also think it is completely rude to just bring someone over without notice. Just because you think the house is clean enough for company doesn't necessarily mean it is. I personally think people are too casual nowadays-- I would feel incredibly uncomfortable if someone dropped by my apartment unnanounced while I'm wearing sloppy clothes or my hair is dirty. Yeah they're a friend so maybe they don't care but they're still company and decorum should still be followed. I had a roommate that thought that it was ok to have company over without straightening up first and it drove me nuts that she would have people think we were slobs.
There isn't anything abusive about strict parents per se. You really would need to update us with more information for us to say whether or not theyr're being abusive. And still, the term 'abusive' is pretty subjective.
I hated my parents rules and ways of doing things when I was younger. But now that I'm in my (early) 20s, I can fully understand their motivations for doing certain things. I wouldn't necessarily rasie my future children the same way but I totally understand them.
posted by lovelygirl at 4:11 AM on May 24, 2011
I also never brought anyone home unannounced when I lived there out of courtesy to my family. Not many of my friends understood that at all but my parents worked long hours and I had a much younger sibling. So I don't think that's extreme.
I know plenty of people who do the mileage thing. It's not my thing but they love their little logs.
But what you don't mention is the consequences of your actions. Does your dad question why you drove an extra 6.2 miles last week? Are you grounded if you spend too much? If you're thinking "well, I have to fib and say I was detoured due to construction if I want to drive to the bookstore after class one day" or "if I don't keep track at the pump I lose my car for the weekend" then I think your parents are being extreme.
Otherwise, they're just overprotective and naggy.
If you have a job, here's an unsolicited step 1 to prepare for when you leave. "Dad, Mom....I'm ready for my own checking account! I've watched how you keep track and I want to do it myself now." Then tomorrow, get your own checking account.
posted by ladygypsy at 4:58 AM on May 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
I know plenty of people who do the mileage thing. It's not my thing but they love their little logs.
But what you don't mention is the consequences of your actions. Does your dad question why you drove an extra 6.2 miles last week? Are you grounded if you spend too much? If you're thinking "well, I have to fib and say I was detoured due to construction if I want to drive to the bookstore after class one day" or "if I don't keep track at the pump I lose my car for the weekend" then I think your parents are being extreme.
Otherwise, they're just overprotective and naggy.
If you have a job, here's an unsolicited step 1 to prepare for when you leave. "Dad, Mom....I'm ready for my own checking account! I've watched how you keep track and I want to do it myself now." Then tomorrow, get your own checking account.
posted by ladygypsy at 4:58 AM on May 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do because it would disrupt my parents' days too much.
The other day my boyfriend offered to get my car gassed and I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do after he filled the tank.
My boyfriend is concerned my parents are abusively controlling.
This makes me wonder if your parents know you have a boyfriend.
If you are hiding a romantic relationship from them due to fear of how they would respond - yes, that would be extreme.
posted by shiny blue object at 5:29 AM on May 24, 2011
The other day my boyfriend offered to get my car gassed and I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do after he filled the tank.
My boyfriend is concerned my parents are abusively controlling.
This makes me wonder if your parents know you have a boyfriend.
If you are hiding a romantic relationship from them due to fear of how they would respond - yes, that would be extreme.
posted by shiny blue object at 5:29 AM on May 24, 2011
tl;dr the answers.
though you have to obey their rules while you are financially dependent on them I would personally start to list out the activities and feelings that you want to cast aside when you do move out. My major worry for you is that you are developing, or now have, certain idiosyncrasies that will impact you for your entire life. Every time you purchase a movie ticket, a 12-pack of soda, a coffee, fill up on gas,....
Everybody is weird, we all have our idiosyncrasies, but you need to be very careful about your situation before "I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do" becomes commonplace.
posted by zombieApoc at 5:57 AM on May 24, 2011
though you have to obey their rules while you are financially dependent on them I would personally start to list out the activities and feelings that you want to cast aside when you do move out. My major worry for you is that you are developing, or now have, certain idiosyncrasies that will impact you for your entire life. Every time you purchase a movie ticket, a 12-pack of soda, a coffee, fill up on gas,....
Everybody is weird, we all have our idiosyncrasies, but you need to be very careful about your situation before "I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do" becomes commonplace.
posted by zombieApoc at 5:57 AM on May 24, 2011
I think the difference between quirky and dangerously controlling is in what would happen if you didn't do these things. Have you ever tried not bringing home your receipts? What's the penalty if you don't write down your gas mileage?
If the consequence of noncompliance is that you get a sitcom Dad-style lecture on the importance of fiscal discipline, that's probably just quirky. If your parents have a panic attack, that might mean that there's something psychologically going on with them, but it's still probably not malicious or dangerous. However, if the consequence of bringing a friend home unannounced would be violence or threats or lashing out in anger of any kind, I would call that unacceptably controlling.
Frankly, no matter what the reason or the consequences, I'd move out. I couldn't live like this. But then, I wasn't raised this way, so it's not normal for me. If it's normal for you and you're not unhappy and your parents aren't unhappy (and that includes being unhappy at the response you get when you don't comply), then it's fine. But I agree with everyone above who says that you need to make sure you're preparing yourself to be independent so that you can handle this stuff when you're living on your own.
posted by decathecting at 6:13 AM on May 24, 2011
If the consequence of noncompliance is that you get a sitcom Dad-style lecture on the importance of fiscal discipline, that's probably just quirky. If your parents have a panic attack, that might mean that there's something psychologically going on with them, but it's still probably not malicious or dangerous. However, if the consequence of bringing a friend home unannounced would be violence or threats or lashing out in anger of any kind, I would call that unacceptably controlling.
Frankly, no matter what the reason or the consequences, I'd move out. I couldn't live like this. But then, I wasn't raised this way, so it's not normal for me. If it's normal for you and you're not unhappy and your parents aren't unhappy (and that includes being unhappy at the response you get when you don't comply), then it's fine. But I agree with everyone above who says that you need to make sure you're preparing yourself to be independent so that you can handle this stuff when you're living on your own.
posted by decathecting at 6:13 AM on May 24, 2011
Since my parents are the cosigners or whatever on my bank accounts and credit cards, I have to report every charge I make to him so that he can cross reference it...
Get your own checking and savings accounts. You're a grownup, you don't need daddy signing a permission slip for you to have an ATM card. Keep the credit cards (having your parents involved probably means you have higher limits), but use them sparingly enough that reporting charges doesn't become onerous.
When I get gas for my car, I must save my receipt and record information off my dashboard so he can enter it into his records to track my car's state of being and mileage.
Does your car not have an odometer and a fuel gauge? Can you maybe compromise and do this more casually, say, emailing him once every few weeks with mileage and fuel economy figures, or whatever metrics he needs? Also, start saving to buy your own car.
When I was younger I couldn't have friends over or go anywhere without giving my parents multiple days notice so that my parents could be prepared to have company. To this day I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do because it would disrupt my parents' days too much. There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on.
This is in the past and has no bearing on your life now. A lot of people have semi-weird parents with odd rules or who create a home environment that isn't conducive to having friends over. You are hardly alone on this, and it shouldn't make you feel inferior. Also, please stop thinking of yourself as a "kid" and stewing over what "all the other kids" do. You're an adult. Act like one.
The other day my boyfriend offered to get my car gassed and I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do after he filled the tank.
Again, you should arrange with your dad to supply him with the various bits of information in a way that works for you. And then just tell your boyfriend, "hey, when you gas up the car, could you let me know how much you put in and what day it was? My dad is kind of anal about it." Don't turn it into a big procedural to do.
He was dumbstruck when he realized I was serious, and further concerned when I detailed some of the other things that are idiosyncratic about my life.
If your boyfriend makes you feel bad about your relationship with your parents (especially small things like this), dump him. Someone who loves you will be supportive of you, including understanding that your family is a little different from their family and that's OK.
I am really starting to feel like a freak because I am dependent upon my parents and must play by their rules until I finish grad school.
1. You are not "dependent" on your parents. You are a grown adult. If you want to be more independent, be more independent.
2. Have you ever considered therapy? I think a lot of the things you describe are not so much due to your parents being OMG HORRIBLE RIDICULOUS, but because of complexes you've developed. Complexes which sound like they originated in middle school and are not terribly healthy to keep carrying around as an adult.
posted by Sara C. at 6:58 AM on May 24, 2011
Get your own checking and savings accounts. You're a grownup, you don't need daddy signing a permission slip for you to have an ATM card. Keep the credit cards (having your parents involved probably means you have higher limits), but use them sparingly enough that reporting charges doesn't become onerous.
When I get gas for my car, I must save my receipt and record information off my dashboard so he can enter it into his records to track my car's state of being and mileage.
Does your car not have an odometer and a fuel gauge? Can you maybe compromise and do this more casually, say, emailing him once every few weeks with mileage and fuel economy figures, or whatever metrics he needs? Also, start saving to buy your own car.
When I was younger I couldn't have friends over or go anywhere without giving my parents multiple days notice so that my parents could be prepared to have company. To this day I have never brought a single person home just to hang out like other kids my age do because it would disrupt my parents' days too much. There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on.
This is in the past and has no bearing on your life now. A lot of people have semi-weird parents with odd rules or who create a home environment that isn't conducive to having friends over. You are hardly alone on this, and it shouldn't make you feel inferior. Also, please stop thinking of yourself as a "kid" and stewing over what "all the other kids" do. You're an adult. Act like one.
The other day my boyfriend offered to get my car gassed and I had a moment of panic because I had to explain what he needed to do after he filled the tank.
Again, you should arrange with your dad to supply him with the various bits of information in a way that works for you. And then just tell your boyfriend, "hey, when you gas up the car, could you let me know how much you put in and what day it was? My dad is kind of anal about it." Don't turn it into a big procedural to do.
He was dumbstruck when he realized I was serious, and further concerned when I detailed some of the other things that are idiosyncratic about my life.
If your boyfriend makes you feel bad about your relationship with your parents (especially small things like this), dump him. Someone who loves you will be supportive of you, including understanding that your family is a little different from their family and that's OK.
I am really starting to feel like a freak because I am dependent upon my parents and must play by their rules until I finish grad school.
1. You are not "dependent" on your parents. You are a grown adult. If you want to be more independent, be more independent.
2. Have you ever considered therapy? I think a lot of the things you describe are not so much due to your parents being OMG HORRIBLE RIDICULOUS, but because of complexes you've developed. Complexes which sound like they originated in middle school and are not terribly healthy to keep carrying around as an adult.
posted by Sara C. at 6:58 AM on May 24, 2011
I started writing a big long thing, but I don't think it's really helpful. Basically, personal independence comes with financial independence. If your parents are paying all your bills, then they get to choose how they handle paying and monitoring those bills. If it's their house, they get to say how much notice they need for visitors. I don't even really get how that would be controversial.
It would be kind of helpful to know what some of the other stuff is, but if it's as non-abusive as this, I can't really support the idea that they should change and start doing things in a way that makes them feel anxious and worried so that their adult child whom they are supporting can feel less embarrassed.
I'm absolutely not saying you shouldn't feel confined and overcontrolled; I'm saying that you should find a way to make your own money for the things you want to take control of: your car, and/or your living arrangements, to start.
Your boyfriend may be aghast that things don't operate in your family the way they do in his, but he's also very unlikely to pony up the money for you to do things his way. For you to do everything your way, you're going to have to support yourself.
posted by taz at 7:02 AM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
It would be kind of helpful to know what some of the other stuff is, but if it's as non-abusive as this, I can't really support the idea that they should change and start doing things in a way that makes them feel anxious and worried so that their adult child whom they are supporting can feel less embarrassed.
I'm absolutely not saying you shouldn't feel confined and overcontrolled; I'm saying that you should find a way to make your own money for the things you want to take control of: your car, and/or your living arrangements, to start.
Your boyfriend may be aghast that things don't operate in your family the way they do in his, but he's also very unlikely to pony up the money for you to do things his way. For you to do everything your way, you're going to have to support yourself.
posted by taz at 7:02 AM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I didn't read all the answers. I agree that the 'no friends over' thing is sad. But I wanted to add two things about the gas log & finances & having weird parents generally (mine are somewhat similar).
1. My parents keep a small notebook in the glovebox, and record all that data. My brother and I had to do it too, when we lived at home and drove their cars. My brother kept doing it for a while after he moved out; he probably still would if he had a car (he lives in NYC now). I, in contrast, dropped it like a hot potato immediately. But I was just out visiting my folks, and teased my Dad about it. He laughed, but pointed out that a) it had allowed him to bust a garage for taking our car for a 300 mile joyride, and b) it once got him out of a false accusation that our car was used for a crime in a different city.
2. I was acutely aware, as a teenager, that my parents were weird. And I carefully observed the way other people behaved. I became a watcher. I learned from them. Now, in my late 30s, most people think I'm pretty socially capable, at least for the circles I run in. One side effect, though, is that I notice things: that someone is unhappy, etc. Hard to describe, but I think it's a positive benefit.
posted by kestrel251 at 7:14 AM on May 24, 2011
1. My parents keep a small notebook in the glovebox, and record all that data. My brother and I had to do it too, when we lived at home and drove their cars. My brother kept doing it for a while after he moved out; he probably still would if he had a car (he lives in NYC now). I, in contrast, dropped it like a hot potato immediately. But I was just out visiting my folks, and teased my Dad about it. He laughed, but pointed out that a) it had allowed him to bust a garage for taking our car for a 300 mile joyride, and b) it once got him out of a false accusation that our car was used for a crime in a different city.
2. I was acutely aware, as a teenager, that my parents were weird. And I carefully observed the way other people behaved. I became a watcher. I learned from them. Now, in my late 30s, most people think I'm pretty socially capable, at least for the circles I run in. One side effect, though, is that I notice things: that someone is unhappy, etc. Hard to describe, but I think it's a positive benefit.
posted by kestrel251 at 7:14 AM on May 24, 2011
Lots of good advice above. One thing I'm not clear on from your question - do you not have any income of your own? If you have funding from your grad program or a part-time job, then that money is yours and should be going into a bank account that's in your name alone. It's one thing for your parents to have strict rules for living in their house. It's quite another for them to have their name on your bank account that your money goes into.
posted by tdismukes at 7:43 AM on May 24, 2011
posted by tdismukes at 7:43 AM on May 24, 2011
Haha. Everybody's parents are weird. And you've described my grandparents exactly.
My grandfather had all of us reporting mileage and gas prices. He had 40-odd years worth of log books. And god forbid any of us brought a friend over unexpectedly—my grandmother would do that tight-lipped crazy face thing, and go stone-cold quiet for days.
Thing is, we just don't make a big deal of it. Boyfriend says "Are you freaking serious about recording mileage?" Say something like, "Ha, yeah. My parents are kind of nuts, but they pay the rent so who am I to complain."
When you get out of grad school and into a job, then you can start changing (IE - weaning them) to the point where both sides compromise into something that makes sense. You'll be free of their money, hence free of their rules. But, you can throw them a bone on the small "good kid" stuff.
It's not a big deal unless you make it a big deal.
posted by functionequalsform at 7:44 AM on May 24, 2011
My grandfather had all of us reporting mileage and gas prices. He had 40-odd years worth of log books. And god forbid any of us brought a friend over unexpectedly—my grandmother would do that tight-lipped crazy face thing, and go stone-cold quiet for days.
Thing is, we just don't make a big deal of it. Boyfriend says "Are you freaking serious about recording mileage?" Say something like, "Ha, yeah. My parents are kind of nuts, but they pay the rent so who am I to complain."
When you get out of grad school and into a job, then you can start changing (IE - weaning them) to the point where both sides compromise into something that makes sense. You'll be free of their money, hence free of their rules. But, you can throw them a bone on the small "good kid" stuff.
It's not a big deal unless you make it a big deal.
posted by functionequalsform at 7:44 AM on May 24, 2011
For example, my father is anal retentive about.... There are other things too, but detailing them makes me feel worse as this question goes on.
This sounds like a very strange household to me, anonymous. I guess that last "other things" bit is what's leaving things in balance and making it so hard for me to give you an honest assessment of your situation.
Overall I want to add my voice to the "get your own money" and "take control of your finances" advice. There is just no way that you'll be able to have real privacy without this. What if you buy condoms, birth control, medicine, booze? Your dad's anal approach to finances is only the tip of the privacy / independence thing from my perspective - your dad gets to know about everything you buy, ick!
So yeah, my mind is racing - if the "other things" are too creepy and the mileage is the one sort of "normal" example you are comfortable talking about, I think this is a very wrong situation that you MUST extract yourself from... I am imagining your Dad counting your undies in the hamper to make sure you change them every day, or other way inappropriate behavior. If it is just embarrassing OCD / compulsive / autistic stuff like wiping every can before it goes on the shelves as described above, well that's still fucking wierd but maybe is something that doesn't directly impede on your personal space and privacy, and then maybe that isn't quite so wrong and bad...
posted by Meatbomb at 8:57 AM on May 24, 2011
This sounds like a very strange household to me, anonymous. I guess that last "other things" bit is what's leaving things in balance and making it so hard for me to give you an honest assessment of your situation.
Overall I want to add my voice to the "get your own money" and "take control of your finances" advice. There is just no way that you'll be able to have real privacy without this. What if you buy condoms, birth control, medicine, booze? Your dad's anal approach to finances is only the tip of the privacy / independence thing from my perspective - your dad gets to know about everything you buy, ick!
So yeah, my mind is racing - if the "other things" are too creepy and the mileage is the one sort of "normal" example you are comfortable talking about, I think this is a very wrong situation that you MUST extract yourself from... I am imagining your Dad counting your undies in the hamper to make sure you change them every day, or other way inappropriate behavior. If it is just embarrassing OCD / compulsive / autistic stuff like wiping every can before it goes on the shelves as described above, well that's still fucking wierd but maybe is something that doesn't directly impede on your personal space and privacy, and then maybe that isn't quite so wrong and bad...
posted by Meatbomb at 8:57 AM on May 24, 2011
Privacy is an important term here. You need privacy. I don't mean you deserve it, or that it's something to strive for. I mean you need it, in order to be a healthy adult.
My original comment focused on the fact that what your parents are doing is bizarre and how inappropriate it is for the three of you to be participating in that dynamic. I'd like to pop back in to just quickly say that when you recalibrate your sense of normal (either by just taking the steps to get your own bank account, credit card, apartment, etc. or by hashing these issues out with a therapist) you need to understand how critical and healthy and good privacy is. You can't make your own decisions, manage your own finances, and learn from your mistakes (which you will make and that's ok and you don't need to obsessively maintain a logbook to always avoid any hint of a mistake) if you don't insist on and value your own fully deserved and fully necessary privacy.
I suspect your parents value a relationship with you, and probably also value having you living at home, more than they value their current rules. There has to be a way to both renegotiate the terms of your living with them to increase your privacy to a more appropriate level, and to plan to move out and live independently.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:21 AM on May 24, 2011 [5 favorites]
My original comment focused on the fact that what your parents are doing is bizarre and how inappropriate it is for the three of you to be participating in that dynamic. I'd like to pop back in to just quickly say that when you recalibrate your sense of normal (either by just taking the steps to get your own bank account, credit card, apartment, etc. or by hashing these issues out with a therapist) you need to understand how critical and healthy and good privacy is. You can't make your own decisions, manage your own finances, and learn from your mistakes (which you will make and that's ok and you don't need to obsessively maintain a logbook to always avoid any hint of a mistake) if you don't insist on and value your own fully deserved and fully necessary privacy.
I suspect your parents value a relationship with you, and probably also value having you living at home, more than they value their current rules. There has to be a way to both renegotiate the terms of your living with them to increase your privacy to a more appropriate level, and to plan to move out and live independently.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:21 AM on May 24, 2011 [5 favorites]
In your 20s is a good time to start developing boundaries, to be pleasant annd polite and still start removing parental controls. Even if they are cosigners, or joint card holders. Independence should be your goal, and your parents should support that. Their control doesn't sound abusive, just unusual, but I think it's time for you to move outside of their control.
posted by theora55 at 9:26 AM on May 24, 2011
posted by theora55 at 9:26 AM on May 24, 2011
Yeah, this sounds to me like fears of theirs, maybe compulsions, not necessarily ultra-controlling behavior. I know someone with severe social anxiety, and he needs a couple of *weeks* to get used to the idea of someone coming into his house. Keeping track of finances and so on so obsessively does sound extreme to me, but if they do it for their own expenses as well as yours, it sounds more like something they feel they have to do, rather than someone they're doing to control you. Of course, I'm a stranger on the internet, I could be wrong.
But if you're not quite comfortable with it, there are all kinds of things you can do, lots of good suggestions above. What about this: if you have to report every *charge*, what would happen with you just withdraw cash (a single charge) and used it for day-to-day expenses until you needed more? Obviously, that way individual charges wouldn't be showing up and potentially leading to identity fraud vulnerabilities (playing along with your parents' fears). You wouldn't be reporting each expenditure because it wouldn't be a charge.
posted by galadriel at 9:52 AM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
But if you're not quite comfortable with it, there are all kinds of things you can do, lots of good suggestions above. What about this: if you have to report every *charge*, what would happen with you just withdraw cash (a single charge) and used it for day-to-day expenses until you needed more? Obviously, that way individual charges wouldn't be showing up and potentially leading to identity fraud vulnerabilities (playing along with your parents' fears). You wouldn't be reporting each expenditure because it wouldn't be a charge.
posted by galadriel at 9:52 AM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is going to be a BIG PROBLEM for you in dating. Really really. My parents didn't pull this kind of thing, but they were/are controlling in other ways and I always had a really bad time trying to be in the middle between them and a boyfriend. If your boyfriend wants to shack up with or marry you, he is naturally gonna have problems with your financial/behavioral dependence on your parents. This will only get worse as the relationship goes on.
I'd recommend trying to start to slowly detach from your parents now. Right now you can't be a grownup if you have to live in fear of what Mommy and Daddy will do if you disobey. I don't know how long you have left in grad school, but if it's a lot more than like a year, this is going to get hard for your relationship.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:58 AM on May 24, 2011
I'd recommend trying to start to slowly detach from your parents now. Right now you can't be a grownup if you have to live in fear of what Mommy and Daddy will do if you disobey. I don't know how long you have left in grad school, but if it's a lot more than like a year, this is going to get hard for your relationship.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:58 AM on May 24, 2011
Yeah, having grown up with anxious parents that sound a little like yours (at least on the entertaining guests front), this isn't that extreme, but it's something to talk to a counselor about. Every kid goes through trying to figure out what's normal and what's not, and I found a therapist really helpful for that, and have a better relationship with my parents for it. I wish I'd done it when I was your age!
posted by ldthomps at 12:18 PM on May 24, 2011
posted by ldthomps at 12:18 PM on May 24, 2011
My parents are exactly like this. I don't think there's anything at all abusive about the behavior *unless* they have offered major resistance to you moving out and having your own life (complete with your own bank account and mileage tracking techniques). Accounting and tracking of THEIR money and cars is not controlling. (Though doing it every day would definitely be annoying.) Accounting and tracking of YOUR money and car would be. I can't tell which it is from your question. If it's their money, then, yeah, they get to demand whatever accounting technique they want for the free money they're giving you, and the credit cards that affect their credit score. If not, get your own bank account without them on it and reconcile it however you please. And move out ASAP. I'm guessing your friends are more weirded out by your complete dependence on your family than they are by your dad being a high-strung fellow with an obsession for fact-checking/tracking.
I do still track my gas mileage/service and check my bank account transactions about every day. This takes, on average, five to ten minutes a week, and gives me quite a bit of useful info. These behaviors by themselves aren't really weird at all, and won't hurt you as an adult.
(The not having friends over I took to mean you've never had friends over *without prior notice*. Not that you'd never had friends over, ever. If it's the latter, that is weird. If it's the former, that's just what some folks are like. I like notice when there's going to be guests in my house, too. My introvert self needs a little bit of time to prepare. Not days, but a bit. I understand that's not always possible, but it is my preference.)
posted by wending my way at 1:25 PM on May 24, 2011
I do still track my gas mileage/service and check my bank account transactions about every day. This takes, on average, five to ten minutes a week, and gives me quite a bit of useful info. These behaviors by themselves aren't really weird at all, and won't hurt you as an adult.
(The not having friends over I took to mean you've never had friends over *without prior notice*. Not that you'd never had friends over, ever. If it's the latter, that is weird. If it's the former, that's just what some folks are like. I like notice when there's going to be guests in my house, too. My introvert self needs a little bit of time to prepare. Not days, but a bit. I understand that's not always possible, but it is my preference.)
posted by wending my way at 1:25 PM on May 24, 2011
Mod note: From the OP:
My god, I never thought I'd get this many responses, but thank you to all who've provided input so far. The reason I voiced this question is because I am starting to realize that the way my parents operate is not really the way I'd like to operate, largely because their life management tactics are more extreme than the ones I'd personally like to employ.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:52 PM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
In my haste to put my original question to all of you I didn't clarify certain things that are probably bemusing some of you.
• Ultimately this is all about my dad's lack of flexibility. My mom just goes along for the ride.
• Yes, I had friends over once or twice between the ages of 10 to 18. Eventually the hassle of having to get such extensive permission to have people come over wore me out and I stopped asking. This alienated many of my friends because they (and their parents) thought it was rude of me to never return any invitations so that my friends could spend time at my place.
• Yes, I have my own bank account, with my own money, and credit cards in my name. My parents are co-owners on all my accounts because, as they put it, my money is still technically part of their funds and even though I can do whatever I want with it, they still want me to let them have access and control over it if need be. This means that when I write a check to my therapist, I have to alert my father so he doesn't wonder why money has disappeared from my checking account. He then records the various balances in a spreadsheet.
• For those of you who wondered what would happen if I did not follow through with receipt reporting and things like that, the usual response from my father is a grumpy email reminder asking me to send him my receipts as soon as possible. If, for example, I can't immediately tell him the amount of an online charge (ie one that debits my checking account directly), he gets pissed and tells me my way of doing my checkbook balancing is wrong. I fought back on that recently and told him that my way is my way and he has to deal with it. He gave me the silent treatment for three hours after that.
• Any time I fight back against my father's way of doing things I usually get a lecture, the silent treatment, or just a thoroughly disgruntled response about how the way I do things is wrong. This is what I am most interested in dealing with because....
• Prior to being accepted to grad school I had a paying job. I quit so that I could focus on a career change. My lack of employment currently is not by choice; I've been relentlessly applying for new positions everywhere I can so that I can move out and be on my own but so far no luck. My parents have generously offered to pay for my tuition at a prestigious grad school, and financially it seems like it would make sense for me to continue living with them so that I can continue to save my money. I desperately want to move out.
• If I could get a job, I believe that my father's attempts to monitor my accounts would lessen slightly, but not by much. I would try to open up new credit cards in my name so that I can be in charge of them completely, but to do so would result in a very, very big fight between me and my father.
My real question is this, I guess: how do I escape from a father who means well but is smothering me? If I can't escape, how can I ask for balance when what I believe is balanced is viewed as "wrong" in the eyes of my father?
Yes, I have my own bank account, with my own money, and credit cards in my name. My parents are co-owners on all my accounts because, as they put it, my money is still technically part of their funds and even though I can do whatever I want with it, they still want me to let them have access and control over it if need be.
This is inappropriate. For comparison, so you know what's normal, it is normal for college students 18 - 22 who are supported by their parents to get a monthly or semester stipend that they deposit into their own, independent bank account and manage on their own. While it is parental money, budgeting and management of this money is the student's job.
Prior to being accepted to grad school I had a paying job. I quit so that I could focus on a career change. My parents have generously offered to pay for my tuition at a prestigious grad school, and financially it seems like it would make sense for me to continue living with them so that I can continue to save my money.
Have you ever lived apart from them? Did you live with them when you were working? I suspect you must have or you would not have this current banking arrangement. I understand the value of having your tuition paid and I guess you think it's worth it; I'd focus on getting out of grad school and out on your ASAP.
Please get your own bank account. You don't need to put more than $10 in at a credit union. Your current arrangement is just fucking creepy.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:15 PM on May 24, 2011 [7 favorites]
This is inappropriate. For comparison, so you know what's normal, it is normal for college students 18 - 22 who are supported by their parents to get a monthly or semester stipend that they deposit into their own, independent bank account and manage on their own. While it is parental money, budgeting and management of this money is the student's job.
Prior to being accepted to grad school I had a paying job. I quit so that I could focus on a career change. My parents have generously offered to pay for my tuition at a prestigious grad school, and financially it seems like it would make sense for me to continue living with them so that I can continue to save my money.
Have you ever lived apart from them? Did you live with them when you were working? I suspect you must have or you would not have this current banking arrangement. I understand the value of having your tuition paid and I guess you think it's worth it; I'd focus on getting out of grad school and out on your ASAP.
Please get your own bank account. You don't need to put more than $10 in at a credit union. Your current arrangement is just fucking creepy.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:15 PM on May 24, 2011 [7 favorites]
Also: please earn some income. Babysitting and tutoring are good ways to make cash and you can mine your local community for those opportunities. Grad students are very desireable babysitters and tutors!
posted by DarlingBri at 3:17 PM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by DarlingBri at 3:17 PM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
There is way, way too much control going on with your father. It sounds unhealthy, and it's something I strongly encourage you to avoid in choosing a partner.
The best advice I can give you is to get a job and move out. *YOU* set the terms of grad school. Your parents can pay your tuition (directly to the school if it makes them feel better) if they're generous enough to do so. If not, get student loans and pay your own way. I don't see how you can live happily under your father's thumb for the rest of your life. There is nothing wrong with making your own way and setting the terms of the way *your* life is lived. Yes, it's going to be a fight, but you deserve act and be treated like an adult.
posted by cnc at 3:59 PM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
The best advice I can give you is to get a job and move out. *YOU* set the terms of grad school. Your parents can pay your tuition (directly to the school if it makes them feel better) if they're generous enough to do so. If not, get student loans and pay your own way. I don't see how you can live happily under your father's thumb for the rest of your life. There is nothing wrong with making your own way and setting the terms of the way *your* life is lived. Yes, it's going to be a fight, but you deserve act and be treated like an adult.
posted by cnc at 3:59 PM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would try to open up new credit cards in my name so that I can be in charge of them completely, but to do so would result in a very, very big fight between me and my father.
WTF?! You are an adult! You don't need his permission! Whether or not you have a credit card in your own name is a matter entirely between you and the nice people at VISA. He doesn't even have to know you have one. Frankly, I don't know how he even would know you had one unless you outright told him, or he goes through your wallet.
OP, I do not think you are quite internalizing the message that people are telling you in this thread: your lack of privacy and independence is stunting you into blithely accepting things that are not acceptable.
Let your dad go pout in the corner and write nasty e-mails all he wants. Fine, whatever. You are a free adult.
Oh, and this?
My parents have generously offered to pay for my tuition at a prestigious grad school, and financially it seems like it would make sense for me to continue living with them so that I can continue to save my money.
Financial sense, maybe; emotional sense, no way in hell. This is not a gift to you, it is a trap. You need to take out student loans and GTFO. Better a poor-but-free grad student with your own life than a financially secure infantilized yes-girl.
posted by Asparagirl at 4:13 PM on May 24, 2011 [5 favorites]
WTF?! You are an adult! You don't need his permission! Whether or not you have a credit card in your own name is a matter entirely between you and the nice people at VISA. He doesn't even have to know you have one. Frankly, I don't know how he even would know you had one unless you outright told him, or he goes through your wallet.
OP, I do not think you are quite internalizing the message that people are telling you in this thread: your lack of privacy and independence is stunting you into blithely accepting things that are not acceptable.
Let your dad go pout in the corner and write nasty e-mails all he wants. Fine, whatever. You are a free adult.
Oh, and this?
My parents have generously offered to pay for my tuition at a prestigious grad school, and financially it seems like it would make sense for me to continue living with them so that I can continue to save my money.
Financial sense, maybe; emotional sense, no way in hell. This is not a gift to you, it is a trap. You need to take out student loans and GTFO. Better a poor-but-free grad student with your own life than a financially secure infantilized yes-girl.
posted by Asparagirl at 4:13 PM on May 24, 2011 [5 favorites]
You are a grown adult and you need to start acting like one. You do not need your parents' permission to open bank accounts. This is not something that is up for discussion. You walk into a bank, say, "I'd like to open a checking account," and then you do it. Period. It's not a debate.
If your father is ready to disown you for opening a checking account with your own money, that's his hill that he wants to die on. It's disappointing, but not your problem.
posted by Sara C. at 4:15 PM on May 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
If your father is ready to disown you for opening a checking account with your own money, that's his hill that he wants to die on. It's disappointing, but not your problem.
posted by Sara C. at 4:15 PM on May 24, 2011 [3 favorites]
how do I escape from a father who means well but is smothering me?
You move out. If he won't budge on his rules, you find a way to get out from under them. First, propose some acceptable option. For instance, perhaps you could draw up a budget for yourself--$X for gas, $Y for tuition, $Z for whatever else--keep it general enough that you can show it to him (i.e., "personal expenses" not "birth control") and ask for a lump some each month. You commit to repay this amount beginning, say, one year after you complete grad school. If he won't go for that kind of appropriate, adult financial arrangement, you find a way to move out.
Have you pursued all possible employment options through your grad program--TAships? research assistantships? Have you applied to all possible employment options in town--retail? temping? Have you exhausted all possible friend/family networking connections? Have you looked into more flexible options--nannying? tutoring?
Also, in the mean time, open a bank account and a credit card in your own name. Choose a different bank from your parents if you're worried about them finding out somehow. Set up paperless statements and online billing, or set up a P.O. box for yourself so that they don't receive the bills or statements at home. Do this just to have your own accounts. Just so that when you need to, you can make your own financial decisions, so that you have an emergency option, and so that when you find a job, you have a private place to put your money.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:57 PM on May 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
You move out. If he won't budge on his rules, you find a way to get out from under them. First, propose some acceptable option. For instance, perhaps you could draw up a budget for yourself--$X for gas, $Y for tuition, $Z for whatever else--keep it general enough that you can show it to him (i.e., "personal expenses" not "birth control") and ask for a lump some each month. You commit to repay this amount beginning, say, one year after you complete grad school. If he won't go for that kind of appropriate, adult financial arrangement, you find a way to move out.
Have you pursued all possible employment options through your grad program--TAships? research assistantships? Have you applied to all possible employment options in town--retail? temping? Have you exhausted all possible friend/family networking connections? Have you looked into more flexible options--nannying? tutoring?
Also, in the mean time, open a bank account and a credit card in your own name. Choose a different bank from your parents if you're worried about them finding out somehow. Set up paperless statements and online billing, or set up a P.O. box for yourself so that they don't receive the bills or statements at home. Do this just to have your own accounts. Just so that when you need to, you can make your own financial decisions, so that you have an emergency option, and so that when you find a job, you have a private place to put your money.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:57 PM on May 24, 2011 [4 favorites]
OK, I want to amend my answer. Because in your original post, the question seemed to be "How do I figure out whether these things are a problem I should do something about?" but after your follow-up, it's clear that the question is really, "What should I do to fix these things that I've identified as a problem and would like to do something about?"
The central tension here is that you would like to have more autonomy and also maintain peace with your father. Your father, on the other hand, wants to have complete control, and if he can't have that, he's completely willing to give up peace. Basically, he's forcing you to choose between the two things you want, even though there's no reason whatsoever that you shouldn't be able to have both. Asking for "balance" is completely reasonable, but it sounds as though he's determined to be unreasonable in response, and you can't control his reaction. And it sucks, and it's not your fault, and whichever choice you make, you're not doing anything wrong.
As I said before, I know which one I would choose. I would tell my father that I love him and want to have a good relationship with him, but I'm getting my own bank account and credit cards, and he's not getting any information about them. And if he chose to react to that with yelling and threats, I would walk away from the conversation. And if he continued to refuse to deal with me in a calm, rational matter, I would walk away from the relationship. And I would be sad and angry and upset that I had to make that choice, but I would choose freedom over peace.
You are absolutely entitled to make a different choice, to choose peace over freedom. You're entitled to choose that for right now, and then make a different choice in a few weeks or months or years when you feel more ready to deal with the fallout, emotionally and practically. The choice you're facing now is the first in a long line of choices you'll make as an independent adult, and it would be understandable if it's even harder for you because you're used to having your choices dictated. But you're making a choice now to keep the peace, and you need to decide how long you're willing to keep doing that at the expense of your freedom. Because there is no way to make him believe that smothering you is wrong when he thinks it's right. You can't change him. But you don't need to convince him that he's wrong, you just need to convince yourself that it's okay to do something that he thinks is wrong, and that his choosing to get angry about your perfectly reasonable decisions is not a reason for you to change your decisions.
posted by decathecting at 4:59 PM on May 24, 2011 [6 favorites]
The central tension here is that you would like to have more autonomy and also maintain peace with your father. Your father, on the other hand, wants to have complete control, and if he can't have that, he's completely willing to give up peace. Basically, he's forcing you to choose between the two things you want, even though there's no reason whatsoever that you shouldn't be able to have both. Asking for "balance" is completely reasonable, but it sounds as though he's determined to be unreasonable in response, and you can't control his reaction. And it sucks, and it's not your fault, and whichever choice you make, you're not doing anything wrong.
As I said before, I know which one I would choose. I would tell my father that I love him and want to have a good relationship with him, but I'm getting my own bank account and credit cards, and he's not getting any information about them. And if he chose to react to that with yelling and threats, I would walk away from the conversation. And if he continued to refuse to deal with me in a calm, rational matter, I would walk away from the relationship. And I would be sad and angry and upset that I had to make that choice, but I would choose freedom over peace.
You are absolutely entitled to make a different choice, to choose peace over freedom. You're entitled to choose that for right now, and then make a different choice in a few weeks or months or years when you feel more ready to deal with the fallout, emotionally and practically. The choice you're facing now is the first in a long line of choices you'll make as an independent adult, and it would be understandable if it's even harder for you because you're used to having your choices dictated. But you're making a choice now to keep the peace, and you need to decide how long you're willing to keep doing that at the expense of your freedom. Because there is no way to make him believe that smothering you is wrong when he thinks it's right. You can't change him. But you don't need to convince him that he's wrong, you just need to convince yourself that it's okay to do something that he thinks is wrong, and that his choosing to get angry about your perfectly reasonable decisions is not a reason for you to change your decisions.
posted by decathecting at 4:59 PM on May 24, 2011 [6 favorites]
Okay, so maybe I'm really weird.
If I was living in someone's house, off their money, I'd account for how I spent every cent, out of sheer courtesy. I certainly did when I lived with my parents.
And I would expect, if I were supporting someone (especially an adult), them to give me at the very least a detailed summary of how they were spending money - and to be putting some away for unexpected expenses. My house; my money; my rules.
If they were using my car, I would expect at the very least rough distance travelled, and fuel usage. I don't keep logbooks, but if I did, I'd expect them to be filled out (as I do when I borrow friend's cars which have logbooks).
Perhaps that's just because money is very tight, both historically and presently. It's a precious resource which should not be wasted. When it's gone, there isn't any more. And - if someone's down enough on their luck to be living with me - it's distinctly possible they aren't so hot at making good financial choices, and require some level of monitoring and feedback to develop habits which will get them back to being independent.
I wouldn't be as pedantic or emotionally tied up about it as your father, however. I certainly wouldn't want access to your bank accounts. If you ran out of money, it would be your problem of how to eat, get from point to point, etc like a responsible adult. I wouldn't give you the silent treatment, but I probably would crack a joke. And then go over stuff to find out where you went wrong. And rinse, repeat next cycle.
That said, I'm going with the majority here in saying your father's reactions are a little over the top. Perhaps it's fear that if he doesn't keep track of it, he'll be poor. Perhaps it's that he really likes doing the numbers, and feels like you're taking his fun away. Perhaps blank spaces really bother him. All these are emotions I've encountered in this kind of situation, some in myself, some in others, and can produce the kind of reactions you're having to deal with.
I would suggest sitting down with him, asking him why he needs this information so badly, and why he reacts so badly. Try to negotiate at least just doing a summary statement at intervals. And also? Get a job. Grow up. Move out. Easy to say, hard to do.
posted by ysabet at 5:09 PM on May 24, 2011
If I was living in someone's house, off their money, I'd account for how I spent every cent, out of sheer courtesy. I certainly did when I lived with my parents.
And I would expect, if I were supporting someone (especially an adult), them to give me at the very least a detailed summary of how they were spending money - and to be putting some away for unexpected expenses. My house; my money; my rules.
If they were using my car, I would expect at the very least rough distance travelled, and fuel usage. I don't keep logbooks, but if I did, I'd expect them to be filled out (as I do when I borrow friend's cars which have logbooks).
Perhaps that's just because money is very tight, both historically and presently. It's a precious resource which should not be wasted. When it's gone, there isn't any more. And - if someone's down enough on their luck to be living with me - it's distinctly possible they aren't so hot at making good financial choices, and require some level of monitoring and feedback to develop habits which will get them back to being independent.
I wouldn't be as pedantic or emotionally tied up about it as your father, however. I certainly wouldn't want access to your bank accounts. If you ran out of money, it would be your problem of how to eat, get from point to point, etc like a responsible adult. I wouldn't give you the silent treatment, but I probably would crack a joke. And then go over stuff to find out where you went wrong. And rinse, repeat next cycle.
That said, I'm going with the majority here in saying your father's reactions are a little over the top. Perhaps it's fear that if he doesn't keep track of it, he'll be poor. Perhaps it's that he really likes doing the numbers, and feels like you're taking his fun away. Perhaps blank spaces really bother him. All these are emotions I've encountered in this kind of situation, some in myself, some in others, and can produce the kind of reactions you're having to deal with.
I would suggest sitting down with him, asking him why he needs this information so badly, and why he reacts so badly. Try to negotiate at least just doing a summary statement at intervals. And also? Get a job. Grow up. Move out. Easy to say, hard to do.
posted by ysabet at 5:09 PM on May 24, 2011
On another note: your parents aren't going to wake up one day and magically realize that you are an adult and no longer needs to be treated as a child. Since you are still financially dependent, I recommend very subtly starting to condition them into treating you like an adult that needs to be respected as an adult. All of the above are okay when you are a kid/early 20s young adult, but by late twenties, not so much.
This. Seriously. I wish I'd had some of these big fights when I was in my early 20s instead of waiting until my late 30s.
It took me this long to figure out that my father isn't just "overprotective," he's controlling. He's not a bad person, he loves me, but he fundamentally does not understand how relationships work. The only way he knows how to be affectionate is to provide me with instructions, which I must follow to demonstrate my appreciation. It's sort of self-sustaining anxiety. I think he honestly believes that if his overly elaborate procedures are not followed: my car will cease to function, my bank accounts will vanish into thin air, I will get lost enroute to familiar locations, etc. Does this sound familiar?
I've had some luck with my father by taking a page out of his book and providing ridiculously well-sourced justifications, citing external authorities, for decisions which differ from his method. Also, I just stopped doing some of this stuff. No. N-O.
And start planning your financial independence, because that's his best argument for insisting on his rules.
Feel free to MeMail me or email me (my address is in my profile.)
posted by desuetude at 7:20 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
This. Seriously. I wish I'd had some of these big fights when I was in my early 20s instead of waiting until my late 30s.
It took me this long to figure out that my father isn't just "overprotective," he's controlling. He's not a bad person, he loves me, but he fundamentally does not understand how relationships work. The only way he knows how to be affectionate is to provide me with instructions, which I must follow to demonstrate my appreciation. It's sort of self-sustaining anxiety. I think he honestly believes that if his overly elaborate procedures are not followed: my car will cease to function, my bank accounts will vanish into thin air, I will get lost enroute to familiar locations, etc. Does this sound familiar?
I've had some luck with my father by taking a page out of his book and providing ridiculously well-sourced justifications, citing external authorities, for decisions which differ from his method. Also, I just stopped doing some of this stuff. No. N-O.
And start planning your financial independence, because that's his best argument for insisting on his rules.
Feel free to MeMail me or email me (my address is in my profile.)
posted by desuetude at 7:20 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
Jesus God, girl. What if you want to buy a sex toy? Is your father going to solemnly enter that onto his spreadsheet?
You need to start establishing some boundaries. I suspect, based on slightly-similar-though-nothing-like-as-serious behaviour from my own parents, that the hardest thing is going to be accepting your own competence. You will probably feel like you're fucking up terribly for a very, very long time. The only option you have is to plough on through and realise that, whatever your parents have taught you, making mistakes sometimes is OK. Even if you fall prey to the dreaded identity theft and lose everything (though this is very unlikely), the world will not collapse around you. Just listen to this beautiful Mitchell and Webb sketch about identity theft, over and over again. I paid £700 too much in taxes in 2008/9, because I didn't apply for a tax return properly and got depressed and lost all the paperwork and was too scared to call the tax office. My mother would never, ever have made a mistake like that. And yet, somehow I'm still here and will live to make more mistakes yet.
posted by Acheman at 9:25 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
You need to start establishing some boundaries. I suspect, based on slightly-similar-though-nothing-like-as-serious behaviour from my own parents, that the hardest thing is going to be accepting your own competence. You will probably feel like you're fucking up terribly for a very, very long time. The only option you have is to plough on through and realise that, whatever your parents have taught you, making mistakes sometimes is OK. Even if you fall prey to the dreaded identity theft and lose everything (though this is very unlikely), the world will not collapse around you. Just listen to this beautiful Mitchell and Webb sketch about identity theft, over and over again. I paid £700 too much in taxes in 2008/9, because I didn't apply for a tax return properly and got depressed and lost all the paperwork and was too scared to call the tax office. My mother would never, ever have made a mistake like that. And yet, somehow I'm still here and will live to make more mistakes yet.
posted by Acheman at 9:25 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
When you had a paying job did he monitor your accounts so strictly? Because it is odd for a parent to loosen their restrictions and then later re-tighten them. Money that you make from a job is not technically his money even if you live in his house (your follow-up post was a bit unclear).
There is a lot of good advice in this thread but much of it depends on 1) your family's financial situation and 2) are they the type of people who would ever "cut you off" or stop paying for grad school? If they're rational enough to value your education over pretty much anything, then you have a lot more leeway to make a move toward independence.
nthing the advice to get a job, even if it isn't in your field. You need to have an independent source of income, and you need to start paying for certain things (gas, clothes, entertainment) with that income. Chances are your parents believe that you ought to be saving money, and if they're inherently generous they may "reimburse" you with financial gifts.
posted by acidic at 9:55 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
There is a lot of good advice in this thread but much of it depends on 1) your family's financial situation and 2) are they the type of people who would ever "cut you off" or stop paying for grad school? If they're rational enough to value your education over pretty much anything, then you have a lot more leeway to make a move toward independence.
nthing the advice to get a job, even if it isn't in your field. You need to have an independent source of income, and you need to start paying for certain things (gas, clothes, entertainment) with that income. Chances are your parents believe that you ought to be saving money, and if they're inherently generous they may "reimburse" you with financial gifts.
posted by acidic at 9:55 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
If I could get a job, I believe that my father's attempts to monitor my accounts would lessen slightly, but not by much. I would try to open up new credit cards in my name so that I can be in charge of them completely, but to do so would result in a very, very big fight between me and my father.
That is a fight that you are going to have to choose. Again, it's fine for him to control absolutely everything about his money, but not about yours. As soon as you get a new job, get another bank account (only yours), put your money into it.
The end of my comment from a few days ago, I mentioned how you need to subtly begin training them to treat you as an adult. I highly highly highly recommend it! Are they going to like it? NO. Are they going to put up a fight? YES. But hold your ground.
Anecdote about my life: I was used to my parents controlling ways. I honestly didn't even notice it. Then I studied abroad for a year. When I came back, they expected me to still be their little girl, whom they had the right to control. Geez, it was smothering. Any slight deviation from total acquiescence would cause fights like you mentioned. I am NOT used to fighting with my parents. 3 hours of silent treatment would hurt me so badly. I was miserable. So what did I do? Started making plans to move overseas.
Luckily, my plans failed because after that they started realizing that they either had to back off and treat me as an adult or they'd push me away, bc we'd never be as close as we were before if they kept treating me as a child. Nowadays (5 years later) we have a great relationship. they can't even remember all the fighting but I can. I was more hurt by the idea of daring to hurt them, than they were hurt by any action of mine.
Trust me on this, it's worth it. If you want a loving adult relationship with your parents, it is worth it to stand your ground. Do it subtly, of course. Your dad will put up a fight. Anal people don't like change, parents don't like seeing their kids grow up (kids = controllable; adults = not controllable).
But in the end, your dad will have to decide which is more important to him: his silly anal requirements or being close to you.
From what you wrote, your parents love you. Much more likely than not, he'll choose being close to you (no matter how many hissy fits and silent treatments he gives you) than his method of balancing a check book.
Hold on to your guns! It'll make you closer to your parents in the long run, but in a very good way.
posted by Neekee at 10:52 AM on May 25, 2011
That is a fight that you are going to have to choose. Again, it's fine for him to control absolutely everything about his money, but not about yours. As soon as you get a new job, get another bank account (only yours), put your money into it.
The end of my comment from a few days ago, I mentioned how you need to subtly begin training them to treat you as an adult. I highly highly highly recommend it! Are they going to like it? NO. Are they going to put up a fight? YES. But hold your ground.
Anecdote about my life: I was used to my parents controlling ways. I honestly didn't even notice it. Then I studied abroad for a year. When I came back, they expected me to still be their little girl, whom they had the right to control. Geez, it was smothering. Any slight deviation from total acquiescence would cause fights like you mentioned. I am NOT used to fighting with my parents. 3 hours of silent treatment would hurt me so badly. I was miserable. So what did I do? Started making plans to move overseas.
Luckily, my plans failed because after that they started realizing that they either had to back off and treat me as an adult or they'd push me away, bc we'd never be as close as we were before if they kept treating me as a child. Nowadays (5 years later) we have a great relationship. they can't even remember all the fighting but I can. I was more hurt by the idea of daring to hurt them, than they were hurt by any action of mine.
Trust me on this, it's worth it. If you want a loving adult relationship with your parents, it is worth it to stand your ground. Do it subtly, of course. Your dad will put up a fight. Anal people don't like change, parents don't like seeing their kids grow up (kids = controllable; adults = not controllable).
But in the end, your dad will have to decide which is more important to him: his silly anal requirements or being close to you.
From what you wrote, your parents love you. Much more likely than not, he'll choose being close to you (no matter how many hissy fits and silent treatments he gives you) than his method of balancing a check book.
Hold on to your guns! It'll make you closer to your parents in the long run, but in a very good way.
posted by Neekee at 10:52 AM on May 25, 2011
To me, having to provide such fine grained details of my spending would be a little insulting and really make me feel untrusted to handle money which might be fine with strangers but from my own parents? I sometimes loan money out to people and I never ask for remotely as much from my family as your father asks of you.
What I would like if I were in your situation would be to either get a monthly stipend or loan based on what I expect to need in a month. I would even be willing to provide details into my spending, just less frequently and/or with less granularity. Daily to me seems pretty excessive and if you get money once a month then giving a summary of your spending once a month to show you aren't blowing your money seems reasonable.
posted by Green With You at 11:18 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
What I would like if I were in your situation would be to either get a monthly stipend or loan based on what I expect to need in a month. I would even be willing to provide details into my spending, just less frequently and/or with less granularity. Daily to me seems pretty excessive and if you get money once a month then giving a summary of your spending once a month to show you aren't blowing your money seems reasonable.
posted by Green With You at 11:18 AM on May 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
My parents are co-owners on all my accounts because, as they put it, my money is still technically part of their funds and even though I can do whatever I want with it, they still want me to let them have access and control over it if need be.
Nope.
If your money is technically part of their funds, there are two scenarios possible: 1) they are giving you money (outside of the tuition and such, which can't be 'freely' spent), or 2) you are paying them (some) money, possibly to offset the costs of you living there.
Situation 1--money given is a gift; they have no right to demand that they be able to account for the placement of every red cent they ever give you; that money is accountable until it leaves their bank account. Situation 2--they are only allowed to account for the money you give them, once it is received, and not a cent otherwise; the money you don't give them ain't theirs, and certainly don't need to be accountable by their definition.
I'm not quite as quick to jump to the abuse claim because I can see a lot of shadows of my parents in your post. For what it's worth, my parents are on all my bank accounts too--they do investing in my name (principal could be my money or their money, but they're in my name for whatever reason) and it's far easier to keep track if they're 1) power of attorney and 2) able to log into my accounts online. If I were to lock my parents out of my online accounts, they would definitely be upset. And at first, I'm sure they were looking at my account comings-and-goings online too, probably not for any real desire to snoop, but just curious and click-click!
They don't do that anymore, if they ever did (I suspect they've done it a time or three, but the memory is fuzzy enough that I'm not certain). I told them I'd strip them of that title if they abuse it, which of course they say something along the lines of "pfft, who cares what you spend your cash on?" which I (gently, teasingly) counter with their history of looking at my statements, and then they splutter ineffectively that that was different, we laugh and move onto the next topic.
The reason I'm not jumping on the abuse chorus is that I think that parents, all parents, have to be trained out of the mindset of 'my son/daughter is a child', even if they're perfectly sane. I mentioned above I can take cracks at their overprotectiveness; that was something hard earned through fighting and arguments, not freely given. When our parents start off at a point so much further along the overly-anal-retentive spectrum than average it may seem like a downwards spiral from those who grew up in a different culture or had different kind of parents (my parents are not from North America), but until they've proven that they can't be trained out of it I don't think it's fair to slap them with that label just yet.
If your dad will sulk over not knowing everything about your finances, let him. My mom questioned how I spent $$$ at fancy restaurants or eating out several times a week (I've had monthly credit card bills hit up to close to around 900 bucks a month doing nothing but eating out and buying books before) and voice tons of disapproval at my idea of budgeting. I tell them yup, I spent a little too much this month, and change the subject ("and stop bloody looking at my bills, Mom!!"). They will be disgruntled, they will be grumpy, they will be worried. Let them. Until it turns to anger and yelling and such stronger emotions, consider this their teething period as parents. And consider a frank talk with them about how either side should 'account' for each other's money (e.g. can your parents wire you the tuition money or pay the school directly, so they can still log it in their books during the transaction date? If you're paying them, can you promise to pay at a certain day every month so that the number is there if they're balancing their chequebooks?), and what's definitely off-limits.
If your parents have legit reasons to be accessing your account (such as managing investments or something), you don't have to cut them out. For privacy's sake you can open another account, or just tell them you're going not to answer questions about how your spend your discretionary money anymore. Yes, if you're living under their roof you should be able to show you're not a mooch (like, say, paying them rent, helping with groceries, yadda yadda), but living under the same roof is not a waiver of personal privacy.
Letting go is a hard lesson for all parents to learn, I think; yours (and mine, maybe) might just have it a little harder than most.
posted by Hakaisha at 12:33 AM on May 26, 2011
Nope.
If your money is technically part of their funds, there are two scenarios possible: 1) they are giving you money (outside of the tuition and such, which can't be 'freely' spent), or 2) you are paying them (some) money, possibly to offset the costs of you living there.
Situation 1--money given is a gift; they have no right to demand that they be able to account for the placement of every red cent they ever give you; that money is accountable until it leaves their bank account. Situation 2--they are only allowed to account for the money you give them, once it is received, and not a cent otherwise; the money you don't give them ain't theirs, and certainly don't need to be accountable by their definition.
I'm not quite as quick to jump to the abuse claim because I can see a lot of shadows of my parents in your post. For what it's worth, my parents are on all my bank accounts too--they do investing in my name (principal could be my money or their money, but they're in my name for whatever reason) and it's far easier to keep track if they're 1) power of attorney and 2) able to log into my accounts online. If I were to lock my parents out of my online accounts, they would definitely be upset. And at first, I'm sure they were looking at my account comings-and-goings online too, probably not for any real desire to snoop, but just curious and click-click!
They don't do that anymore, if they ever did (I suspect they've done it a time or three, but the memory is fuzzy enough that I'm not certain). I told them I'd strip them of that title if they abuse it, which of course they say something along the lines of "pfft, who cares what you spend your cash on?" which I (gently, teasingly) counter with their history of looking at my statements, and then they splutter ineffectively that that was different, we laugh and move onto the next topic.
The reason I'm not jumping on the abuse chorus is that I think that parents, all parents, have to be trained out of the mindset of 'my son/daughter is a child', even if they're perfectly sane. I mentioned above I can take cracks at their overprotectiveness; that was something hard earned through fighting and arguments, not freely given. When our parents start off at a point so much further along the overly-anal-retentive spectrum than average it may seem like a downwards spiral from those who grew up in a different culture or had different kind of parents (my parents are not from North America), but until they've proven that they can't be trained out of it I don't think it's fair to slap them with that label just yet.
If your dad will sulk over not knowing everything about your finances, let him. My mom questioned how I spent $$$ at fancy restaurants or eating out several times a week (I've had monthly credit card bills hit up to close to around 900 bucks a month doing nothing but eating out and buying books before) and voice tons of disapproval at my idea of budgeting. I tell them yup, I spent a little too much this month, and change the subject ("and stop bloody looking at my bills, Mom!!"). They will be disgruntled, they will be grumpy, they will be worried. Let them. Until it turns to anger and yelling and such stronger emotions, consider this their teething period as parents. And consider a frank talk with them about how either side should 'account' for each other's money (e.g. can your parents wire you the tuition money or pay the school directly, so they can still log it in their books during the transaction date? If you're paying them, can you promise to pay at a certain day every month so that the number is there if they're balancing their chequebooks?), and what's definitely off-limits.
If your parents have legit reasons to be accessing your account (such as managing investments or something), you don't have to cut them out. For privacy's sake you can open another account, or just tell them you're going not to answer questions about how your spend your discretionary money anymore. Yes, if you're living under their roof you should be able to show you're not a mooch (like, say, paying them rent, helping with groceries, yadda yadda), but living under the same roof is not a waiver of personal privacy.
Letting go is a hard lesson for all parents to learn, I think; yours (and mine, maybe) might just have it a little harder than most.
posted by Hakaisha at 12:33 AM on May 26, 2011
In my first answer, I gave you some thoughts on how to tell if your parents' behaviour is something that enables you or ultimately disables you. I've since thought of a compelling and totally legitimate way you can figure out what is going on if you can't tell.
I want you to say to them, "Mom, Dad, I'm going to use this time in grad school to start building my own credit history so that when I graduate, I'll be able to pass the credit checks I need to get an apartment and finance a car for work. I talked to XYZ credit union today and I'm opening an account and applying for a credit card."
If your parents say this is not necessary because they will co-sign your apartment applications and/or buy you a car, their real issue is not how their money is spent, but controlling and infantilizing you. If they freak and panic but ask about the APR and other practical things, they are overprotective but at least there's no danger of them locking you in the basement until they die. If they say "That's a great idea, honey, do you need any help with that?" then everything is probably cool.
And just so you are completely clear on this, it is in fact totally necessary that you have your own credit rating or you will in fact not be able to pass the credit check needed to rent virtually all apartments these days. The situation you are currently in is one that millions of women get into: they are on their husband's card, they divorce, and they realise they have 30 years of marriage and no credit history because everything was in his name. They are then completely fucked. And it happens every single day. Be smart and do not let that be your outcome when it is finally time to separate from your parents. Your dad not speaking to you isn't going to hurt as much as having to live with them for the rest of your life.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:21 AM on May 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
I want you to say to them, "Mom, Dad, I'm going to use this time in grad school to start building my own credit history so that when I graduate, I'll be able to pass the credit checks I need to get an apartment and finance a car for work. I talked to XYZ credit union today and I'm opening an account and applying for a credit card."
If your parents say this is not necessary because they will co-sign your apartment applications and/or buy you a car, their real issue is not how their money is spent, but controlling and infantilizing you. If they freak and panic but ask about the APR and other practical things, they are overprotective but at least there's no danger of them locking you in the basement until they die. If they say "That's a great idea, honey, do you need any help with that?" then everything is probably cool.
And just so you are completely clear on this, it is in fact totally necessary that you have your own credit rating or you will in fact not be able to pass the credit check needed to rent virtually all apartments these days. The situation you are currently in is one that millions of women get into: they are on their husband's card, they divorce, and they realise they have 30 years of marriage and no credit history because everything was in his name. They are then completely fucked. And it happens every single day. Be smart and do not let that be your outcome when it is finally time to separate from your parents. Your dad not speaking to you isn't going to hurt as much as having to live with them for the rest of your life.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:21 AM on May 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
My parents are co-owners on all my accounts because, as they put it, my money is still technically part of their funds and even though I can do whatever I want with it, they still want me to let them have access and control over it if need be.
Like Hakaisha, I disagree with this.
Do they have that attitude toward money that is clearly yours, and has never been theirs, such as monetary gifts from your grandparents, or the money you earned when you were working?
Here's my data point: when I was a kid - I don't remember the exact age, but surely younger than 10 - my parents took me to the local bank to open a savings account. I put gift money and sometimes allowance money in there. When I started babysitting, and then working after-school jobs, I put my earnings in my savings account. When I got old enough to buy a car and started needing to pay for gas and insurance, I opened a checking account. I was under 18 at that point.
While my parents were certainly co-signers on my account when I was 10, I don't remember ever having conversations about the balance in my account, except when I wanted to save up a lot of money for something special, and then it was just general conversations about how much I had, how much I needed, whether they might consider chipping in if it was something that had educational value.
There was always the sense that that my money was my own - even when I was a kid. If I wanted to take $20 and blow it on music - which I often did - that was up to me.
For me, it's always been a really good feeling to know that some amount of money was mine, and I could save it, or spend it on something I really wanted, or even just fritter it away.
If any of the money in any of your accounts is money that came to you directly, either from gifts or from working, I strongly suggest taking that money and opening a separate account with no co-signers. It can be a really powerful and positive feeling, if you've never experienced that.
posted by kristi at 5:38 PM on May 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Like Hakaisha, I disagree with this.
Do they have that attitude toward money that is clearly yours, and has never been theirs, such as monetary gifts from your grandparents, or the money you earned when you were working?
Here's my data point: when I was a kid - I don't remember the exact age, but surely younger than 10 - my parents took me to the local bank to open a savings account. I put gift money and sometimes allowance money in there. When I started babysitting, and then working after-school jobs, I put my earnings in my savings account. When I got old enough to buy a car and started needing to pay for gas and insurance, I opened a checking account. I was under 18 at that point.
While my parents were certainly co-signers on my account when I was 10, I don't remember ever having conversations about the balance in my account, except when I wanted to save up a lot of money for something special, and then it was just general conversations about how much I had, how much I needed, whether they might consider chipping in if it was something that had educational value.
There was always the sense that that my money was my own - even when I was a kid. If I wanted to take $20 and blow it on music - which I often did - that was up to me.
For me, it's always been a really good feeling to know that some amount of money was mine, and I could save it, or spend it on something I really wanted, or even just fritter it away.
If any of the money in any of your accounts is money that came to you directly, either from gifts or from working, I strongly suggest taking that money and opening a separate account with no co-signers. It can be a really powerful and positive feeling, if you've never experienced that.
posted by kristi at 5:38 PM on May 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
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I would explain that you don't expect HIM to do x, y and z if you guys marry. I know I would want to hear that from a partner whose parents do what yours do.
It does sound like your parents have some pretty extreme and rigid rules about certain things. The fact that your father needs to write down every detail and seems paranoid about identity theft is a red flag - as is both your parents' need to "prepare" for company multiple days ahead of time. It's not for me to say what exactly is going on there, but I think it warrants some professional intervention.
posted by cranberrymonger at 8:24 PM on May 23, 2011 [4 favorites]