In which Zsa Zsa and Grizzly Adams go camping
May 17, 2011 1:44 PM Subscribe
I love the outdoors! Particularly when viewed from a balcony at the Four Seasons, with a refreshing gin and tonic. The boyfriend thinks Mother Nature wants us to be uncomfortable. Please help resolve our camping conundrum.
My ex and I camped a few times each summer, canoeing with a large group of friends. The biggest worry was keeping cool in the tent and arguing over whose turn it was to go for ice. The campgrounds had hot showers and a small store. We used an air mattress, comforter and pillows. Buddies brought a battery-powered blender. Mmmm, mudslides. I never slept well (hiking to a bathroom in the middle of the night is horrible), but hey, canoeing and steaks and telling stories around the fire. Good times.
My boyfriend and his ex, Grizzlina, liked to put on packs, hike far into the Rockies, eat ramen, and, um, look at each other for days. Or something like that.
Needless to say, our first car camping trip was not a huge success. By morning I was in my sleeping bag, his sleeping bag, on both our thermarests, and still shivering. (It's COLD in the Rockies in late July!) Yes, I cried. No, he has not let me forget this.
But we're in the West, there are a lot of lovely things to see, and I'd like for us to experience them together. I can live without a shower. I can pee in the woods. I can deal with just staring at each other for hours while waiting for a bear or snake or boredom to come and kill me. But I can't handle freezing and not sleeping. (I really do love whitewater rafting and canoeing.)
We have a self-inflating air mattress. Grizzly says that's not what "camping is about" and is insulted that I want to take a pillow. Am I a terrible person for wanting to be comfortable? He acts like it's a moral failing. (G sleeps easily everywhere, I have a hard time at home on a pillowtop.)
How can we compromise and have a good time together in the great outdoors? I love to cook and am happy to make nice camp meals, I don't mind hiking, and I really do love whitewater rafting and canoeing. Thanks for your suggestions!
My ex and I camped a few times each summer, canoeing with a large group of friends. The biggest worry was keeping cool in the tent and arguing over whose turn it was to go for ice. The campgrounds had hot showers and a small store. We used an air mattress, comforter and pillows. Buddies brought a battery-powered blender. Mmmm, mudslides. I never slept well (hiking to a bathroom in the middle of the night is horrible), but hey, canoeing and steaks and telling stories around the fire. Good times.
My boyfriend and his ex, Grizzlina, liked to put on packs, hike far into the Rockies, eat ramen, and, um, look at each other for days. Or something like that.
Needless to say, our first car camping trip was not a huge success. By morning I was in my sleeping bag, his sleeping bag, on both our thermarests, and still shivering. (It's COLD in the Rockies in late July!) Yes, I cried. No, he has not let me forget this.
But we're in the West, there are a lot of lovely things to see, and I'd like for us to experience them together. I can live without a shower. I can pee in the woods. I can deal with just staring at each other for hours while waiting for a bear or snake or boredom to come and kill me. But I can't handle freezing and not sleeping. (I really do love whitewater rafting and canoeing.)
We have a self-inflating air mattress. Grizzly says that's not what "camping is about" and is insulted that I want to take a pillow. Am I a terrible person for wanting to be comfortable? He acts like it's a moral failing. (G sleeps easily everywhere, I have a hard time at home on a pillowtop.)
How can we compromise and have a good time together in the great outdoors? I love to cook and am happy to make nice camp meals, I don't mind hiking, and I really do love whitewater rafting and canoeing. Thanks for your suggestions!
How about not sleeping together? If you are backpacking then you are each essentially taking your own gear. Go out into the wild, and bring with you what you are willing to carry to make it the best possible experience for you, and let him carry what makes it awesome for him.
Also ... He acts like it's a moral failing.
He needs to not act like that.
posted by headnsouth at 1:51 PM on May 17, 2011 [13 favorites]
Also ... He acts like it's a moral failing.
He needs to not act like that.
posted by headnsouth at 1:51 PM on May 17, 2011 [13 favorites]
But we're in the West, there are a lot of lovely things to see, and I'd like for us to experience them together. I can live without a shower. I can pee in the woods. I can deal with just staring at each other for hours while waiting for a bear or snake or boredom to come and kill me. But I can't handle freezing and not sleeping. (I really do love whitewater rafting and canoeing.)
To me camping is living without broadband internet so I think your boyfriend has it lucky. I think the way you described it above is how you should present it to your boyfriend. And tell him that you want to go camping, but he has to ease up a little bit about the macho camping if he wants you to actually go with him. He needs to compromise too as EmpressCallipygos mentions above. If my SO tried to get me to do something with him by mocking me about being uncomfortable, you can bet that I would not be doing that thing with him EVER.
posted by Kimberly at 1:51 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
To me camping is living without broadband internet so I think your boyfriend has it lucky. I think the way you described it above is how you should present it to your boyfriend. And tell him that you want to go camping, but he has to ease up a little bit about the macho camping if he wants you to actually go with him. He needs to compromise too as EmpressCallipygos mentions above. If my SO tried to get me to do something with him by mocking me about being uncomfortable, you can bet that I would not be doing that thing with him EVER.
posted by Kimberly at 1:51 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
If my SO tried to get me to do something with him by mocking me about being uncomfortable, you can bet that I would not be doing that thing with him EVER.
Yeah, this. Tell him that you want to go, but you know, you'd have a much better time if you had a camping buddy who wasn't being such a total dick. So you'll pass until he either becomes that guy, or you find that guy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:54 PM on May 17, 2011 [9 favorites]
Yeah, this. Tell him that you want to go, but you know, you'd have a much better time if you had a camping buddy who wasn't being such a total dick. So you'll pass until he either becomes that guy, or you find that guy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:54 PM on May 17, 2011 [9 favorites]
Do you have a really good sleeping bag? I backpack in the Rockies and used a bag rated to zero degrees for years, even while camping in the summer. That's really the only thing I can suggest if you're really intent on joining him on these trips.
I love backpacking and have done several solo trips, but I would never force anyone to backpack with me unless I knew that they really, really wanted to do it. It's hard and it's not for everyone, and if you don't have the right attitude for it it can be pretty miserable for everyone involved. I don't think it's a moral failing, it's just a difference in preferences. If I were you I'd try to make backpacking a hobby he enjoys in his solo time. This is starting out as a recipe for disaster.
posted by shornco at 1:54 PM on May 17, 2011
I love backpacking and have done several solo trips, but I would never force anyone to backpack with me unless I knew that they really, really wanted to do it. It's hard and it's not for everyone, and if you don't have the right attitude for it it can be pretty miserable for everyone involved. I don't think it's a moral failing, it's just a difference in preferences. If I were you I'd try to make backpacking a hobby he enjoys in his solo time. This is starting out as a recipe for disaster.
posted by shornco at 1:54 PM on May 17, 2011
Grizzly says that's not what "camping is about" and is insulted that I want to take a pillow. Am I a terrible person for wanting to be comfortable? He acts like it's a moral failing....How can we compromise and have a good time together in the great outdoors?
Assuming you're not exaggerating about his attitude: is HE interested in compromise? Not "compromise" as in "you give as much as possible to make a solution, and I will tolerate you not being my ex-girlfriend," but actual compromise -- as in "we are on the same team, so let's respectfully find a solution to this problem together that leaves us both feeling like our needs are being met."
If you can't have that kind of conversation with him, then camping is not really your problem.
posted by scody at 1:55 PM on May 17, 2011 [9 favorites]
Assuming you're not exaggerating about his attitude: is HE interested in compromise? Not "compromise" as in "you give as much as possible to make a solution, and I will tolerate you not being my ex-girlfriend," but actual compromise -- as in "we are on the same team, so let's respectfully find a solution to this problem together that leaves us both feeling like our needs are being met."
If you can't have that kind of conversation with him, then camping is not really your problem.
posted by scody at 1:55 PM on May 17, 2011 [9 favorites]
psst. I think you outed your sockpuppet there . .if you are trying to keep this anony from a metafilter SO then I'd ask the mods to fix you up.
posted by Medieval Maven at 1:58 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by Medieval Maven at 1:58 PM on May 17, 2011
Are you hiking in for days? No? Then be comfortable. Why does he get to decide what is and isn't camping? He's being a dick.
Take a pillow. Buy a 0F sleeping bag (I like the cotton ones, but you can NOT allow them to get wet- they take forever to dry.) and bring a hot water bottle! A hot water bottle is the only thing that's allowed me to not hate sleeping outside.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:59 PM on May 17, 2011
Take a pillow. Buy a 0F sleeping bag (I like the cotton ones, but you can NOT allow them to get wet- they take forever to dry.) and bring a hot water bottle! A hot water bottle is the only thing that's allowed me to not hate sleeping outside.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:59 PM on May 17, 2011
I respect the Empress' point, but... sometimes, unless you're car camping, it can be really hard to make that sort of compromise. I cannot imagine lugging a full-sized pillow on a backwoods trip. If you are talking about backwoods stuff, get thee to a supply store and purchase a good travel pillow, a really nice thermarest, and so forth.
If, someone mentioned above, car camping is the compromise and he's snippy about you taking a pillow in your car? Unless you're forcing him to take a pillow too, this question is not so much about camping and perhaps more about his high expectations and unwillingness to respect you.
posted by AmandaA at 1:59 PM on May 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
If, someone mentioned above, car camping is the compromise and he's snippy about you taking a pillow in your car? Unless you're forcing him to take a pillow too, this question is not so much about camping and perhaps more about his high expectations and unwillingness to respect you.
posted by AmandaA at 1:59 PM on May 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
If my SO tried to get me to do something with him by mocking me about being uncomfortable, you can bet that I would not be doing that thing with him EVER.
Yes. In fact, not doing that thing would be the BEST outcome he could hope for.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:00 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes. In fact, not doing that thing would be the BEST outcome he could hope for.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:00 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
So look... this is the deal: if you can survive for 3 days on ramen in the woods, you can get 3 days at the four seasons - with a hot stone massage - out of this.
Thus far, giving this up has been his compromise. Camping, backpacking, and spending time in the woods is something he likes to do AND he would like to do it with you. If you don't want to, fine, but let him. Tell him it isn't your thing and that he should go with his friends. Be supportive. Do not guilt him. Do not pout about him going. Otherwise, find a boyfriend who is not back to nature.
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:04 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
Thus far, giving this up has been his compromise. Camping, backpacking, and spending time in the woods is something he likes to do AND he would like to do it with you. If you don't want to, fine, but let him. Tell him it isn't your thing and that he should go with his friends. Be supportive. Do not guilt him. Do not pout about him going. Otherwise, find a boyfriend who is not back to nature.
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:04 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
I respect the Empress' point, but... sometimes, unless you're car camping, it can be really hard to make that sort of compromise. I cannot imagine lugging a full-sized pillow on a backwoods trip. If you are talking about backwoods stuff, get thee to a supply store and purchase a good travel pillow, a really nice thermarest, and so forth.
AmandaA, I gathered that this Bear Gryllis Wannabe was even saying that travel pillows and such were to be shunned. Note that he "hasn't let" the OP forget that she cried over being cold in the Rockies. Honestly, it sounds like the fact that she is even considering doing this a second time to be itself the compromise, and he needs to meet her halfway by backing the fuck off.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:04 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
AmandaA, I gathered that this Bear Gryllis Wannabe was even saying that travel pillows and such were to be shunned. Note that he "hasn't let" the OP forget that she cried over being cold in the Rockies. Honestly, it sounds like the fact that she is even considering doing this a second time to be itself the compromise, and he needs to meet her halfway by backing the fuck off.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:04 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
Maybe you could consider taking a powerful hike through a national forest that has "camp" stations. He'd enjoy the hiking from point A to point B to get to the outposts. But! If you research this you could plan it so that those outposts are cabins. This is totally doable in some parks! You'd get to sleep indoors! But yeah, he should be nicer to you about it. Let him carry all the heavy stuff if he wants to prove how rugged he is. Or throw in some low-impact, but high reward stuff like fly fishing. It's still fun if you suck at it, but you look like a total bad-ass if you're good. Maybe that would scratch the nature warrior itch?
posted by troublewithwolves at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by troublewithwolves at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2011
It's really liberating to not need lots of things while camping.
The one thing I'm not really hearing from you is planning. Mr. G. there seems to have a lot of experience on what works with him and he's comfortable with his setup. He is being a little insensitive about what you need, but - you need to figure that out for yourself. If you're not interested in doing that, you're not going to go on multi-day hikes, which payoff with fantastic discoveries.
Figure out a bag that works for you, a pad that works for you - don't forget about clothes you sleep in - find what "tricks" work for you (boiling water, putting it in a nalgene bottle and putting that bottle by your feet inside a sleeping bag is a great one - it literally saved my live on night. Nights). Hiking and camping are filling with compromises - heavier weights make things harder to do, light weights can impact being comfortable if not done right. I'd go to a lady-friendly camping store - without him and find another lady that works there and talk some shop. No man-up'ing going on.
You want to be comfortable and happy and safe camping. Research and experimenting can help.
posted by alex_skazat at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
The one thing I'm not really hearing from you is planning. Mr. G. there seems to have a lot of experience on what works with him and he's comfortable with his setup. He is being a little insensitive about what you need, but - you need to figure that out for yourself. If you're not interested in doing that, you're not going to go on multi-day hikes, which payoff with fantastic discoveries.
Figure out a bag that works for you, a pad that works for you - don't forget about clothes you sleep in - find what "tricks" work for you (boiling water, putting it in a nalgene bottle and putting that bottle by your feet inside a sleeping bag is a great one - it literally saved my live on night. Nights). Hiking and camping are filling with compromises - heavier weights make things harder to do, light weights can impact being comfortable if not done right. I'd go to a lady-friendly camping store - without him and find another lady that works there and talk some shop. No man-up'ing going on.
You want to be comfortable and happy and safe camping. Research and experimenting can help.
posted by alex_skazat at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Just for perspective: I think I'm similar to your boyfriend. I *love* backcountry camping. There's something visceral about carrying everything you need on your back that just can't be imitated by car camping.
And that's coming from someone who *loves* car camping! My point is that to someone who is deeply invested in "real" camping, car camping isn't a compromise; it removes everything that's essential to a camping trip. It would be like if you wanted to go see an opera, and he wanted to compromise and go see a movie instead.
Now. That's not saying there isn't lots of room to compromise. Like you, I'm a big fan of canoe camping. All the benefits of being totally away from civilization with a bit more leeway for what comforts you can bring along. I think that's the angle I would push if I were you. Look for trips were you can canoe to a site and do day hikes from there.
All things considered, I think you should suggest to your boyfriend that he take a trip with a friend to satisfy his hardcore camping kick, and that you will be happy to negotiate a more moderate experience to do as a couple.
posted by auto-correct at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
And that's coming from someone who *loves* car camping! My point is that to someone who is deeply invested in "real" camping, car camping isn't a compromise; it removes everything that's essential to a camping trip. It would be like if you wanted to go see an opera, and he wanted to compromise and go see a movie instead.
Now. That's not saying there isn't lots of room to compromise. Like you, I'm a big fan of canoe camping. All the benefits of being totally away from civilization with a bit more leeway for what comforts you can bring along. I think that's the angle I would push if I were you. Look for trips were you can canoe to a site and do day hikes from there.
All things considered, I think you should suggest to your boyfriend that he take a trip with a friend to satisfy his hardcore camping kick, and that you will be happy to negotiate a more moderate experience to do as a couple.
posted by auto-correct at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
Silk sleeping bag liner. Toasty warm, feels nice, easy to launder. You can also layer your coat over your sleeping bag.
I like to use a wool scarf (or cotton sarong, depending on season) as a sleeping mask. Having something wrapped around my head also makes me warmer.
Pillowcase stuffed with extra clothes = pillow.
posted by Pallas Athena at 2:16 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I like to use a wool scarf (or cotton sarong, depending on season) as a sleeping mask. Having something wrapped around my head also makes me warmer.
Pillowcase stuffed with extra clothes = pillow.
posted by Pallas Athena at 2:16 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yes, he is being a dick. Camping is not about being cold. But if you would like to go camping and be comfortable, you should buy separate air mattress for one person (so he can sleep on the floor if he prefers it), invest in a good sleeping bag designed for camping in the mountains, bring your own pillow, buy thermal hood, thermal underwear, and thick socks. Basically, you should rely on yourself because he is not taking good care of you. He should be, because he is experienced at this camping thing and you are not. But, as I said, don't let this stop you. Buy good clothes, be comfortable and watch him suffer.
posted by leigh1 at 2:22 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by leigh1 at 2:22 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Email to the mods sent; thanks for the heads-up!
To him, car camping is definitely the compromise. An air mattress and real pillow seem to cross some sort of line into indolent Eastern slothfulness. He tried really hard to make our first trip a fun treat, and was disappointed when I was miserable. Yeah, I whined. Dear God was I cold, and not sleeping is just the ninth circle of hell. But I have to own the whining.
To me, sleeping outside is something I endure to do things I love: spending time with friends and being on the water. But I suggested another trip because hey, Monument Valley! I can't get over how gorgeous and other-worldly the West is.
How do you get back to your car when you camp from a canoe? And what do you do to kill time when you have no group of storytellers sitting around the fire?
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 2:23 PM on May 17, 2011
To him, car camping is definitely the compromise. An air mattress and real pillow seem to cross some sort of line into indolent Eastern slothfulness. He tried really hard to make our first trip a fun treat, and was disappointed when I was miserable. Yeah, I whined. Dear God was I cold, and not sleeping is just the ninth circle of hell. But I have to own the whining.
To me, sleeping outside is something I endure to do things I love: spending time with friends and being on the water. But I suggested another trip because hey, Monument Valley! I can't get over how gorgeous and other-worldly the West is.
How do you get back to your car when you camp from a canoe? And what do you do to kill time when you have no group of storytellers sitting around the fire?
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 2:23 PM on May 17, 2011
I'm going to take a slightly different tact from everyone else so far. You say:
I can live without a shower. I can pee in the woods. I can deal with just staring at each other for hours while waiting for a bear or snake or boredom to come and kill me.
.. but then you spend your whole post essentially whining about these very things. Are you sure that he is the only one that isn't willing to truly compromise?
If your only complaints are cold and lack of sleep I would do as others have suggested already: get a good quality sleeping bag that is rated to -15. I find down is better than synthetic as synthetic gets hot in the summer but the down still breathes.
I don't think it is at all unreasonable of you to want to take a pillow, though. I'm a "roll up a sweatshirt" kind of pillow camping guy, but by all means, take a pillow if you want to.
Unfortunately, if you can't get good sleep at home on your pillowtop then I'm not sure what you could do in the wild.
posted by mbatch at 2:24 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I can live without a shower. I can pee in the woods. I can deal with just staring at each other for hours while waiting for a bear or snake or boredom to come and kill me.
.. but then you spend your whole post essentially whining about these very things. Are you sure that he is the only one that isn't willing to truly compromise?
If your only complaints are cold and lack of sleep I would do as others have suggested already: get a good quality sleeping bag that is rated to -15. I find down is better than synthetic as synthetic gets hot in the summer but the down still breathes.
I don't think it is at all unreasonable of you to want to take a pillow, though. I'm a "roll up a sweatshirt" kind of pillow camping guy, but by all means, take a pillow if you want to.
Unfortunately, if you can't get good sleep at home on your pillowtop then I'm not sure what you could do in the wild.
posted by mbatch at 2:24 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
And what do you do to kill time when you have no group of storytellers sitting around the fire?
Read a book, play cards, do a crossword, prepare food, build a tiny fairy village out of twigs and leaves?
posted by mbatch at 2:26 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Read a book, play cards, do a crossword, prepare food, build a tiny fairy village out of twigs and leaves?
posted by mbatch at 2:26 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
So you guys went car camping but he wouldn't let you bring a comfortable mattress? That's ridiculous. Once you're car camping, the whole point is to be comfortable! If he's saying it's all about roughing it... well, he's welcome to go backpacking with his pals, right? And you can spend the weekend at a B&B.
I do know some people (often men) have a very macho attitude about camping. It's annoying. I mean, why not bring something in the car that will make you comfortable?
One possible compromise: you buy your own thick, comfy air mattress and bring your own pillow when you guys go car camping to the campsite with the shower and other facilities. Then, you take long, hard day hikes. So you're doing what he wants--getting away from the campground and into the woods--and what you want--having a shower and relatively comfy bed at night.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:45 PM on May 17, 2011
I do know some people (often men) have a very macho attitude about camping. It's annoying. I mean, why not bring something in the car that will make you comfortable?
One possible compromise: you buy your own thick, comfy air mattress and bring your own pillow when you guys go car camping to the campsite with the shower and other facilities. Then, you take long, hard day hikes. So you're doing what he wants--getting away from the campground and into the woods--and what you want--having a shower and relatively comfy bed at night.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:45 PM on May 17, 2011
It sounds like he likes camping and you don't. How can you compromise around that? If you liked going to movies and he didn't, would it be a good compromise for you both to go to a movie you don't like? That's what this sounds like.
I think you're trying to be a good sport, but really he should probably just go with his guy friends and you guys can do something else together.
posted by facetious at 2:49 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think you're trying to be a good sport, but really he should probably just go with his guy friends and you guys can do something else together.
posted by facetious at 2:49 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
He sounds like a big meanie. If you want to keep camping with him and don't want to suffer his teasing then maybe get a new sleeping bag and a Therm-a-rest pad. Bonus: You can say the pad is to keep you warm, but it'll also add some squishy comfort. Use a sweatshirt as a pillow.
posted by elsietheeel at 2:58 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by elsietheeel at 2:58 PM on May 17, 2011
Response by poster: I'd be happy to go places and stay in a cabin or a hotel, but camping's a lot less expensive. I'm also happy for him to go backpacking with friends. But I can't do another night on a ThermaRest. My sleeping bag's a Slumberjack, but don't know the rating. I do have a silk liner (great for nasty developing world guesthouses!) but never thought about using it inside the bag.
Lots of really good answers here. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 3:01 PM on May 17, 2011
Lots of really good answers here. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 3:01 PM on May 17, 2011
I will leave the relationship dynamics to others and speak to the topic of comfort.
Air mattresses may be comfy, but they are COLD. Air is a bad insulator -- lots of heat leaks out that way. When you're car camping, use thick foam instead, cut to the shape of the back of your car. If you're backpacking (which frankly it sounds like you would hate, so why would you even?), get the thickest cushiest self-inflating mattress you can carry.
Also I have three words that will change your camping experience forever: HOT WATER BOTTLE. Fill it with hot (not boiling) water right before bedtime, wrap it in a flannel pillowcase, and bury it at the foot of your high-quality zip-together sleeping bags. All-night cozitude is yours!
Just be really, really sure the stopper is closed.
posted by ottereroticist at 3:06 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Air mattresses may be comfy, but they are COLD. Air is a bad insulator -- lots of heat leaks out that way. When you're car camping, use thick foam instead, cut to the shape of the back of your car. If you're backpacking (which frankly it sounds like you would hate, so why would you even?), get the thickest cushiest self-inflating mattress you can carry.
Also I have three words that will change your camping experience forever: HOT WATER BOTTLE. Fill it with hot (not boiling) water right before bedtime, wrap it in a flannel pillowcase, and bury it at the foot of your high-quality zip-together sleeping bags. All-night cozitude is yours!
Just be really, really sure the stopper is closed.
posted by ottereroticist at 3:06 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
With regards to your pillow issue, I have simply bundled up a sweatshirt or sweater (which sounds like you'd have with you anyway) or two, in times of need. And no extra lugging a pillow into the woods.
posted by foxhat10 at 3:06 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by foxhat10 at 3:06 PM on May 17, 2011
You're going camping with your boyfriend and no-one else, and you can't think of things to do in the evenings? I dunno, maybe there are other issues in your relationship that need working out? But seriously, last time my boyfriend and I went camping, we each took a book and a decent head torch. There is only so much of your own entertainment you can make on Dartmoor, in the rain, in a very small tent. This summer we have bought a bigger tent.
posted by Lebannen at 3:11 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Lebannen at 3:11 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't see why it is your problem to find a way to sleep warmly when you have an experienced backwoods camping boyfriend. You don't need our advice on how to be warm... that is part of his job if he wants you to do his thing with him. "I am fucking cold and suffering! What the fuck is your problem, dude!"
posted by smackfu at 3:13 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by smackfu at 3:13 PM on May 17, 2011
So, I worked in outdoor education for something like 10 years, and I've written and re-written this about four different times because I'm so angry on your behalf about your boyfriend's reaction to your sleeping cold. I've taught all sorts of people to live and sleep outdoors, but I have never ever mocked a student who came to me in the morning and said they were cold all night, or that they didn't sleep well.
Sleeping warm--and well--is something that every good outdoor educator that I know takes incredibly seriously. Hell, a standard part of an outdoor education curriculum is a full-on class on how to sleep warm in the mountains. With a group of new students, we would have daily check-ins to see if they had stayed warm enough during the night and if they hadn't, we would brainstorm with them and check in again the next day until we'd figured something out. That's how seriously we took teaching people how to sleep warm.
And I'm sorry, but the idea that there is only one way to spend time in the wilderness and that just happens to be your boyfriend's way is complete bullshit. There are multiple different models, and just because he's not aware of any others doesn't mean that he gets to define the universe. For example, I tend to separate most outdoors-people from my circle into two general groups: mountain-people and river-people. Your boyfriend's model of camping is based the mountain-person mindset (cut down to the bare essentials, learn to accept suffering). Your experience canoeing with the ex-boyfriend is closer to the river-person mindset (use the river, let it carry the weight).
Most river-folk I know take pride in being efficient when it matters so that they can laze around the rest of the time. Most mountain-people I know take pride in their ability to live really simply. I suggest--(um, warning: I'm not actually sure if this is a helpful suggestion or just a veiled way for you to say: "fuck you, boyfriend, for not taking me seriously!")--but I suggest you tell your boyfriend that you think you're more of a river person than a mountain person, and so the best way to get you outdoors more often would be to figure out ways to get on the river more often (multi-day whitewater rafting trips in the desert, for example, or overnight canoe trips).
posted by colfax at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2011 [28 favorites]
Sleeping warm--and well--is something that every good outdoor educator that I know takes incredibly seriously. Hell, a standard part of an outdoor education curriculum is a full-on class on how to sleep warm in the mountains. With a group of new students, we would have daily check-ins to see if they had stayed warm enough during the night and if they hadn't, we would brainstorm with them and check in again the next day until we'd figured something out. That's how seriously we took teaching people how to sleep warm.
And I'm sorry, but the idea that there is only one way to spend time in the wilderness and that just happens to be your boyfriend's way is complete bullshit. There are multiple different models, and just because he's not aware of any others doesn't mean that he gets to define the universe. For example, I tend to separate most outdoors-people from my circle into two general groups: mountain-people and river-people. Your boyfriend's model of camping is based the mountain-person mindset (cut down to the bare essentials, learn to accept suffering). Your experience canoeing with the ex-boyfriend is closer to the river-person mindset (use the river, let it carry the weight).
Most river-folk I know take pride in being efficient when it matters so that they can laze around the rest of the time. Most mountain-people I know take pride in their ability to live really simply. I suggest--(um, warning: I'm not actually sure if this is a helpful suggestion or just a veiled way for you to say: "fuck you, boyfriend, for not taking me seriously!")--but I suggest you tell your boyfriend that you think you're more of a river person than a mountain person, and so the best way to get you outdoors more often would be to figure out ways to get on the river more often (multi-day whitewater rafting trips in the desert, for example, or overnight canoe trips).
posted by colfax at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2011 [28 favorites]
Camping is never fun if you're cold. Honestly it sounds like you're just not adequately prepared:
1. Get a warmer sleeping bag. The temperature rating on sleeping bags is the minimum temperature, not the recommended. Make sure you get women's bag, women on average need more insulation and this is factored into the temperature rating. The advice to get a zero-degree bag is good. Do not get a crappy walmart car-camping sleeping bag: You need a sleeping bag with a proper hood for your head and preferably down fill (lighter, more compact, but don't get it wet).
2. Get a closed-cell foam pad. They are much warmer than thermarests. Do not sandwich a thermarest between you and the foam pad. This will make a HUGE difference.
3. Silk liners for sleeping bags are light-weight and add will keep you even warmer.
4. Wool or synthetic clothes. No cotton, it will suck the heat out of your body if it gets wet. Especially wear wool socks and a hat. Long underwear. Wear several layers of clothes so you can regulate when you get too hot.
As for getting to sleep, I find it pretty easy to fall asleep if I've just exhausted myself with a long hike and filled my stomach with a bunch of calories.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 3:30 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
1. Get a warmer sleeping bag. The temperature rating on sleeping bags is the minimum temperature, not the recommended. Make sure you get women's bag, women on average need more insulation and this is factored into the temperature rating. The advice to get a zero-degree bag is good. Do not get a crappy walmart car-camping sleeping bag: You need a sleeping bag with a proper hood for your head and preferably down fill (lighter, more compact, but don't get it wet).
2. Get a closed-cell foam pad. They are much warmer than thermarests. Do not sandwich a thermarest between you and the foam pad. This will make a HUGE difference.
3. Silk liners for sleeping bags are light-weight and add will keep you even warmer.
4. Wool or synthetic clothes. No cotton, it will suck the heat out of your body if it gets wet. Especially wear wool socks and a hat. Long underwear. Wear several layers of clothes so you can regulate when you get too hot.
As for getting to sleep, I find it pretty easy to fall asleep if I've just exhausted myself with a long hike and filled my stomach with a bunch of calories.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 3:30 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I do plenty of camping on thin foam pads in the mountains when it is still winter and my tent is set up on top of snow. I am a camping minimalist (mostly because I am wimpy about how much I can carry in a pack), and it sounds like I fall more into your boyfriend's line of thinking. And yet! I like a good night's sleep.
Everyone's given you pretty good ideas about how to stay warm! The comment above about getting a good women's sleeping bag is spot-on, by the way — I resisted paying the premium for years, but once I got a women's bag, my feet stayed a whole lot warmer.
Eat a candy bar right before bed, so your body has some fat it has to work to digest while you're sleeping. Digestion keeps you warm, and the fat and protein in a Snickers bar will keep your stomach busy for a little while.
Two things I haven't seen mentioned yet: Benadryl and earplugs. They weigh nothing, so your boyfriend can't even argue with packing something extra. I only rarely need the earplugs, but I always take the Benadryl to help me fall asleep and stay asleep. (My experience is that my brain goes on unwilling alert all night when I sleep in a tent, and the Benadryl helps take that edge off.)
posted by adiabat at 4:27 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Everyone's given you pretty good ideas about how to stay warm! The comment above about getting a good women's sleeping bag is spot-on, by the way — I resisted paying the premium for years, but once I got a women's bag, my feet stayed a whole lot warmer.
Eat a candy bar right before bed, so your body has some fat it has to work to digest while you're sleeping. Digestion keeps you warm, and the fat and protein in a Snickers bar will keep your stomach busy for a little while.
Two things I haven't seen mentioned yet: Benadryl and earplugs. They weigh nothing, so your boyfriend can't even argue with packing something extra. I only rarely need the earplugs, but I always take the Benadryl to help me fall asleep and stay asleep. (My experience is that my brain goes on unwilling alert all night when I sleep in a tent, and the Benadryl helps take that edge off.)
posted by adiabat at 4:27 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm glad your follow-up comment said you've got to own the whining, because yeah. You do. The only thing worse than camping without the right gear and being cold and miserably is camping with someone who's whining constantly about being cold and miserably, or not being pampered enough, or not doing [x] thing they did when they were with someone else.
Here is your plan of action:
Go on day hikes with your boyfriend. Get used to carrying a small day-pack, filled with water and snacks.
Add more water to your pack. Go on longer hikes with him. Take in all the beauty of nature you can see together in just a few miles of hiking. Invent games to play with him to pass the time while you're walking around.
Try car camping again together, once you've acquired a better (down-filled) sleeping bag, long underwear, wool socks, a hot water bottle, and all the other stuff people up-thread have suggested. Bring your pillow, because you're in the car and there's no reason not to. Instead of using a blow-up air mattress, try layering some thin backpacking mattress pads. Boyfriend doesn't have to use these, but there's no shame in them and some people have more sensitive joints/spines than others and find them helpful. The tradeoff is: you don't whine (even if it's uncomfortable!) and boyfriend doesn't shame you for bringing your creature comforts in a car.
Make a fire! This is one of the best things about car camping, because it's not allowed in a lot of the California backwoods areas. Roast marshmallows, bring out your cooler and prepare elaborate meals together, talk about everything under the sun.
You can use car camping as your gateway drug to backpacking. This can be done effectively, with compromise. He has to look at it as getting you used to scaling down, gradually, not as though he's giving something up. Ditch the comforter, use a good sleeping bag. Gradually upgrade your gear. Use the backpacking pads instead of the air mattress. Ditch the blender and bring a couple of flasks of gin, some tonic, and limes instead. Get used to spending time alone, as a couple, and enjoy all the new things you can learn about each other. Practice hiking carrying weight, and go on long day hikes from your car campsite. Hopefully once he sees that you're putting in incremental effort, you can both relax and enjoy the process. Hopefully once you're adequately suited-up with real backpacking gear you'll have more fun and be able to get some sleep. Good luck!
posted by booknerd at 4:48 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Here is your plan of action:
You can use car camping as your gateway drug to backpacking. This can be done effectively, with compromise. He has to look at it as getting you used to scaling down, gradually, not as though he's giving something up. Ditch the comforter, use a good sleeping bag. Gradually upgrade your gear. Use the backpacking pads instead of the air mattress. Ditch the blender and bring a couple of flasks of gin, some tonic, and limes instead. Get used to spending time alone, as a couple, and enjoy all the new things you can learn about each other. Practice hiking carrying weight, and go on long day hikes from your car campsite. Hopefully once he sees that you're putting in incremental effort, you can both relax and enjoy the process. Hopefully once you're adequately suited-up with real backpacking gear you'll have more fun and be able to get some sleep. Good luck!
posted by booknerd at 4:48 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Oh, I once car camped with a down bag that I hadn't used in a year or so, and so I didn't know until I went to bed in my tent that it had completely lost its loft while it sat in my closet for a year. I was so miserable and cold, huddled in the foot of the bag until the sun came up, worried I might actually be hypothermic. The next day I was completely useless. All my friends went off to do fun activities, while I just slept in the sun. Worse, I was anxious about camping in anything less than balmy conditions for years afterward, just because of one bad experience among many, many good ones.
Spending a night so cold that it made you cry is a thing to take really seriously, and it is completely understandable that you are a little hesitant about this whole thing.
Also, my boyfriend is a really intense, outdoorsy guy who sleeps on rock ledges in a bivy every weekend all summer without complaint, and yet when we went car camping a couple of weeks ago he brought his 4" inflatable mattress and threw an extra pillow in the car for me, along with his own pillow. There is no need to be unnecessarily miserable when you are car camping! That's what's so fun about it.
posted by adiabat at 4:50 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
Spending a night so cold that it made you cry is a thing to take really seriously, and it is completely understandable that you are a little hesitant about this whole thing.
Also, my boyfriend is a really intense, outdoorsy guy who sleeps on rock ledges in a bivy every weekend all summer without complaint, and yet when we went car camping a couple of weeks ago he brought his 4" inflatable mattress and threw an extra pillow in the car for me, along with his own pillow. There is no need to be unnecessarily miserable when you are car camping! That's what's so fun about it.
posted by adiabat at 4:50 PM on May 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
As a Boy Scout I got to do both car-camping and back-country camping. It seems like there are possibly two separate issues here: your SO's attitude about things like pillows and mattresses, and being properly equipped.
You should not ever, ever, ever be cold to the point of not being able to sleep while camping, especially if you're backpacking out to a remote site where you can't just hop in the car and go to the ER if you're suffering from exposure or hypothermia. Having gone on multiple winter campouts (one where it snowed about 18" overnight) I'm here with all of my fingers and toes to say that a sleeping bag that's properly rated for the weather you're camping in will keep you nice and toasty. qxntpqbbbqxl has already hit on most of the points I was going to make RE: wearing layers of wool/and or synthetics. booknerd's suggestion about doing short conditioning hikes is good, too.
As for pillows and mattresses... backpacking with a full-size pillow or inflatable mattress is impractical, but hell, my troop did a 50 mile backpacking trip and I think pretty much everyone had a small camping pillow (they're maybe a foot square, lightweight, and squash down to take up very little of your precious space) and some kind of small pad (either self-inflating or simple closed-cell foam) to put on the ground. Your SO needs to back off on the arbitrary macho posturing about small comforts... it's not like he's the one who's going to be carrying them (and it's not like either one weighs much of anything anyway.)
Similarly, you should absolutely not be starving hungry on a hiking trip. You may not be as full as you would be if you're car-camping within a few miles of a drive-in restaurant, but you should have a ready supply of jerky/granola type snacks to stay fueled throughout the day and supplement meals.
I want to add one other thing: even if your BF dials down the Bear Grylls attitude and you go on a couple of properly-equipped backpacking trips with him you may just decide it's not a thing you enjoy doing, and that's OK. Your BF might be disappointed that he can't share his passion for it with you, but it doesn't invalidate the kind of camping where you have fun. When the future Mrs usonian and I started dating, I spent probably five years trying to get her to go camping with me before getting it through my thick skull that it's simply not her idea of a good time. Would I like to go camping with her? Absolutely! Do I give her grief about not wanting to go camping with me? No! We each have our interests, and although they overlap in a lot of places there are plenty of others where they don't. It's OK.
posted by usonian at 5:09 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
You should not ever, ever, ever be cold to the point of not being able to sleep while camping, especially if you're backpacking out to a remote site where you can't just hop in the car and go to the ER if you're suffering from exposure or hypothermia. Having gone on multiple winter campouts (one where it snowed about 18" overnight) I'm here with all of my fingers and toes to say that a sleeping bag that's properly rated for the weather you're camping in will keep you nice and toasty. qxntpqbbbqxl has already hit on most of the points I was going to make RE: wearing layers of wool/and or synthetics. booknerd's suggestion about doing short conditioning hikes is good, too.
As for pillows and mattresses... backpacking with a full-size pillow or inflatable mattress is impractical, but hell, my troop did a 50 mile backpacking trip and I think pretty much everyone had a small camping pillow (they're maybe a foot square, lightweight, and squash down to take up very little of your precious space) and some kind of small pad (either self-inflating or simple closed-cell foam) to put on the ground. Your SO needs to back off on the arbitrary macho posturing about small comforts... it's not like he's the one who's going to be carrying them (and it's not like either one weighs much of anything anyway.)
Similarly, you should absolutely not be starving hungry on a hiking trip. You may not be as full as you would be if you're car-camping within a few miles of a drive-in restaurant, but you should have a ready supply of jerky/granola type snacks to stay fueled throughout the day and supplement meals.
I want to add one other thing: even if your BF dials down the Bear Grylls attitude and you go on a couple of properly-equipped backpacking trips with him you may just decide it's not a thing you enjoy doing, and that's OK. Your BF might be disappointed that he can't share his passion for it with you, but it doesn't invalidate the kind of camping where you have fun. When the future Mrs usonian and I started dating, I spent probably five years trying to get her to go camping with me before getting it through my thick skull that it's simply not her idea of a good time. Would I like to go camping with her? Absolutely! Do I give her grief about not wanting to go camping with me? No! We each have our interests, and although they overlap in a lot of places there are plenty of others where they don't. It's OK.
posted by usonian at 5:09 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I can't begin to thank you all for the great advice. If we go again, I won't take the aerobed but will find a thick piece of memory foam. (And bring every piece of ski clothing I own.)
Debating whether to show him this thread. He might get defensive, which would only make things worse. I suspect a lot of the jerkishness stems from the fact that he does consider himself the outdoor type and thought he was taking good care of me. And then he was mad at himself, but was a bear to me. Grizzlina was apparently made of tougher stuff. Damn Grizzlina, anyway.
Sleeping bags lose loft? I hadn't used mine in more than five years. So do you have to throw them away, or what?
Another thing I hated was that to be warm, I sat so close to the fire that my face was broiling, but my back was still freezing. As for beverages, next time it's mulled wine and hot chocolate all the way.
I don't mind being chided a little for being Prissy Whimperton, but only if it's from a place of love. He's been kind of snide with the Four Seasons cracks but you know what? The Four Seasons is NICE. And many of them are in picturesque rural-type settings. :-)
This next trip will be make or break, camping-wise, so I also appreciate the wishes for good luck. It's so pretty out here ... just wish it weren't so COLD.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 5:16 PM on May 17, 2011
Debating whether to show him this thread. He might get defensive, which would only make things worse. I suspect a lot of the jerkishness stems from the fact that he does consider himself the outdoor type and thought he was taking good care of me. And then he was mad at himself, but was a bear to me. Grizzlina was apparently made of tougher stuff. Damn Grizzlina, anyway.
Sleeping bags lose loft? I hadn't used mine in more than five years. So do you have to throw them away, or what?
Another thing I hated was that to be warm, I sat so close to the fire that my face was broiling, but my back was still freezing. As for beverages, next time it's mulled wine and hot chocolate all the way.
I don't mind being chided a little for being Prissy Whimperton, but only if it's from a place of love. He's been kind of snide with the Four Seasons cracks but you know what? The Four Seasons is NICE. And many of them are in picturesque rural-type settings. :-)
This next trip will be make or break, camping-wise, so I also appreciate the wishes for good luck. It's so pretty out here ... just wish it weren't so COLD.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 5:16 PM on May 17, 2011
A "Slumberjack?" Yes, you need a better sleeping bag, preferably one designed for women. My sister refuses to go with less than a 10-degree 800-fill-power down bag, regardless of temperature. Store it unpacked in the big cotton bag they come in. Also, there is some misinformation about therm-a-rests on this thread. Therm-a-rests, in general, are a good bit warmer than a closed-cell foam mattresses (i.e. z-rests), but you have to choose your therm-a-rest. Go to REI and find a good salesperson and try out a few different things. There are also other grands, such as these down sleeping pads that people tend to love. Don't get an aerobed. They are actually quite cold, because the air sets up a cell within there, and makes for terrible condensation, etc. Therm-a-rest sells nice little collapsable pillows too
Wear a hat! regardless of the temperature, be sure to wear a hat when you sleep- it makes a huge difference.
By the fire, wear a puffy jacket.
You might also rent a good thermarest and bag from REI or other nearby place.
Another great thing to do is to get more tired. After hiking all day, I will happily fall asleep on a nice soft piece of granite.
Think about getting a bag that has an equivalent for him, so that you can zip together. If he already has a north face, or whatever, bring it along, and see if you can find a warm bag to fit. I have been the heat source for more than one girlfriend(and now almost-wife, who continues to steal my warmth).
A great thing about getting stuff at REI is they have the a no questions asked, 100 percent, lifetime return policy. Buy that stuff, and after using it, you still can't stand camping, return it!
Grizzly is mis-educated about what it is all about to be outside. You don't have to go absolutely minimalist. The important thing is to get outside! And there are amazing, amazing things you can only get to by walking there or canoeing, and staying overnight in the woods. Views where you are the only person around- and many of these are less than 15 miles from a trailhead or put-in. It's awesome. But you have to solve being cold first.
What to do when you are out there? Learn some card games (cribbage is good). Bring a paperback. Knit. Bring a natural history guide and figure out what the plants and animals are around you. Journal.
I went camping with a friend who was absolutely CERTAIN that you had to be uncomfortable to make camping "count." It was what her dad had said was "the way." She had never seen a camping pad. Then I slept comfortably in my good sleeping bag and mattress while she shivered. The next day, we went by a camping store and she got a good bag and a good pad.
You might start out by doing some car camping. Start in campgrounds, either with or without flush toilets. Get the cold thing worked out. Getting rid of being cold is crucial. Then move on to at-large camping on forest service lands- you will need to dig a hole for the bathroom, but your car and cooler are still right there. You can do that all over the place in the west. THEN go for an overnight, or maybe more, trip.
aaaaand that's enough. Good luck out there!
posted by rockindata at 5:53 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wear a hat! regardless of the temperature, be sure to wear a hat when you sleep- it makes a huge difference.
By the fire, wear a puffy jacket.
You might also rent a good thermarest and bag from REI or other nearby place.
Another great thing to do is to get more tired. After hiking all day, I will happily fall asleep on a nice soft piece of granite.
Think about getting a bag that has an equivalent for him, so that you can zip together. If he already has a north face, or whatever, bring it along, and see if you can find a warm bag to fit. I have been the heat source for more than one girlfriend(and now almost-wife, who continues to steal my warmth).
A great thing about getting stuff at REI is they have the a no questions asked, 100 percent, lifetime return policy. Buy that stuff, and after using it, you still can't stand camping, return it!
Grizzly is mis-educated about what it is all about to be outside. You don't have to go absolutely minimalist. The important thing is to get outside! And there are amazing, amazing things you can only get to by walking there or canoeing, and staying overnight in the woods. Views where you are the only person around- and many of these are less than 15 miles from a trailhead or put-in. It's awesome. But you have to solve being cold first.
What to do when you are out there? Learn some card games (cribbage is good). Bring a paperback. Knit. Bring a natural history guide and figure out what the plants and animals are around you. Journal.
I went camping with a friend who was absolutely CERTAIN that you had to be uncomfortable to make camping "count." It was what her dad had said was "the way." She had never seen a camping pad. Then I slept comfortably in my good sleeping bag and mattress while she shivered. The next day, we went by a camping store and she got a good bag and a good pad.
You might start out by doing some car camping. Start in campgrounds, either with or without flush toilets. Get the cold thing worked out. Getting rid of being cold is crucial. Then move on to at-large camping on forest service lands- you will need to dig a hole for the bathroom, but your car and cooler are still right there. You can do that all over the place in the west. THEN go for an overnight, or maybe more, trip.
aaaaand that's enough. Good luck out there!
posted by rockindata at 5:53 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
One thing I will add that I haven't seen yet is to get a double bag. Why? Because you can snuggle with your boyfriend and stealshare his heat. Heck, Mrs. Plinth does this to me three seasons out of the year in our home.
Absolutely follow the advice regarding layers. For me, in camping, the coldest time should not be sleeping. It's the time between when you get out of the tent and when you get the stove/fire going to make the first cup of coffee/cocoa.
I've done car, canoe and backwoods camping. All of them have something to offer and all of them have something that sucks to some degree. Dealing with the suckage is having your expectations set and your ability to plan around those expectations.
Also, go to June Lake. The area is gorgeous. You can use it as a treat to bracket a trip to/from campsites in Sonora Pass.
posted by plinth at 5:57 PM on May 17, 2011
Absolutely follow the advice regarding layers. For me, in camping, the coldest time should not be sleeping. It's the time between when you get out of the tent and when you get the stove/fire going to make the first cup of coffee/cocoa.
I've done car, canoe and backwoods camping. All of them have something to offer and all of them have something that sucks to some degree. Dealing with the suckage is having your expectations set and your ability to plan around those expectations.
Also, go to June Lake. The area is gorgeous. You can use it as a treat to bracket a trip to/from campsites in Sonora Pass.
posted by plinth at 5:57 PM on May 17, 2011
Yes, you need a sleeping bag that zips up with your dude's. This will make a huge difference for your comfort. You should also get a set of straps to attach your Thermarests together (though if you absolutely can't stand a Thermarest, there are down filled mats that will keep you warmer (and are larger and plusher)). The sleeping bag must be warm, probably rated for colder temperatures than you will encounter. Down is a good choice, as it doesn't loose loft like synthetics do. I'm not familiar with the Slumberjack brand, but a quick look at their website confirms that your sleeping bag is not good enough. Expect to spend at least $150 for a reasonable bag, though you could easily spend twice that much.
As a relatively light-packing backpacker myself (who wouldn't dream of carrying even a very light pillow on my back), I'd say that you should put your foot down about the pillow for car camping. I always bring mine when car camping. There is no reason to go without a pillow, just so your guy can feel tough. Otherwise though, I think you are going to have a hard time enjoying trips if you don't adjust your attitude somewhat.
posted by ssg at 6:33 PM on May 17, 2011
As a relatively light-packing backpacker myself (who wouldn't dream of carrying even a very light pillow on my back), I'd say that you should put your foot down about the pillow for car camping. I always bring mine when car camping. There is no reason to go without a pillow, just so your guy can feel tough. Otherwise though, I think you are going to have a hard time enjoying trips if you don't adjust your attitude somewhat.
posted by ssg at 6:33 PM on May 17, 2011
Best answer: Forget the air mattress unless it's really warm at night. They suck all your body heat, and you'll never get warm enough. As others have pointed out, foam is the way to go. Also forget zipping your bags together. Most likely he'll be trying to unzip to cool off while you're still freezing. Not to mention you just don't sleep as well--those double bags get pretty small after the third day out!
My daughter loves to tent camp in three seasons, but has Raynaud's Syndrome. After putting our heads together, this is what we came up with to keep her warm.
First, a good sleeping bag, but nothing more than 0 degrees as it will be too warm. Then find one of those fleece sleeper blankets that fold and zip on the side and bottom, and finally a silk liner. Place the fleece sleeper inside the bag with the zipper opposite the bag's zipper. This and the liner allows for extra layers of air entrapment to keep you toasty. Sleep in a hoodie with the hood up. Works better than a hat, as a hat often gets pulled off. She uses cotton gloves, and the secret weapon--electric socks. Sounds crazy, but made all the difference in whether or not my daughter was able to camp in spring and fall. Have varying degrees of sock warmth with you, from cotton, to nice wool bedsocks, to electric socks for really cold nights. She usually uses fleece pajama pants or good quality sweats, unless it's really warm.
In really warm weather, you can unzip the bag and just sleep with the silk and fleece. I don't have a silk liner, but I line my bag with a flannel sheet, mainly because I'm particular about pulling it out and washing it.
If a folded jacket works for you, go for it, but we take pillows. I bought a couple cheap foam pillows just for camping. Shake the foam bits down to one side, and then sew it in half. If you make a half size pillow out of a poor thin thing, it will have plenty of loft and be firm enough to be pleasant to sleep on, as well as being smaller and easier to pack. If you can find a couch pillow with the right degree of firmness, that could work, too.
Another thought: I was told by a fella at REI never to store my sleeping bag in the stuff sack. Either hang it from a couple pants hangers or store it loosely folded.
Sounds like you're doing mostly tent camping rather than backpacking far into the wilderness. That's OK, it's still fun. Let Mr. Griz pack the equipment he wants and needs, and you pack yours. No need for his sorry input.
Spend a couple years doing lots of car and tent camping. Maybe you'll work up to a backpacking trip in high summer when you get the sleeping thing down. It took me years before I was able to get a good night's sleep while camping, but it works just fine now, whether it's tenting, horse camping, or the occasional backpacking trip.
Also, if you're staring at each other for hours and bored, you're not doing it right. Camping is about activity. Stay active! And there's no law about not bringing a paperback or cards. Napping in the sun is good, too.
I once spend most of four cold and rainy days in a tent with three other people, and it's a favorite camping memory. No boredom. We drank copious amounts of tea, coffee, and cocoa, played various card games, cats cradle, chess and backgammon with a travel set, told tall tales, bad jokes and lies, and generally laughed about how the rain just Would. Not. Stop.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:40 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
My daughter loves to tent camp in three seasons, but has Raynaud's Syndrome. After putting our heads together, this is what we came up with to keep her warm.
First, a good sleeping bag, but nothing more than 0 degrees as it will be too warm. Then find one of those fleece sleeper blankets that fold and zip on the side and bottom, and finally a silk liner. Place the fleece sleeper inside the bag with the zipper opposite the bag's zipper. This and the liner allows for extra layers of air entrapment to keep you toasty. Sleep in a hoodie with the hood up. Works better than a hat, as a hat often gets pulled off. She uses cotton gloves, and the secret weapon--electric socks. Sounds crazy, but made all the difference in whether or not my daughter was able to camp in spring and fall. Have varying degrees of sock warmth with you, from cotton, to nice wool bedsocks, to electric socks for really cold nights. She usually uses fleece pajama pants or good quality sweats, unless it's really warm.
In really warm weather, you can unzip the bag and just sleep with the silk and fleece. I don't have a silk liner, but I line my bag with a flannel sheet, mainly because I'm particular about pulling it out and washing it.
If a folded jacket works for you, go for it, but we take pillows. I bought a couple cheap foam pillows just for camping. Shake the foam bits down to one side, and then sew it in half. If you make a half size pillow out of a poor thin thing, it will have plenty of loft and be firm enough to be pleasant to sleep on, as well as being smaller and easier to pack. If you can find a couch pillow with the right degree of firmness, that could work, too.
Another thought: I was told by a fella at REI never to store my sleeping bag in the stuff sack. Either hang it from a couple pants hangers or store it loosely folded.
Sounds like you're doing mostly tent camping rather than backpacking far into the wilderness. That's OK, it's still fun. Let Mr. Griz pack the equipment he wants and needs, and you pack yours. No need for his sorry input.
Spend a couple years doing lots of car and tent camping. Maybe you'll work up to a backpacking trip in high summer when you get the sleeping thing down. It took me years before I was able to get a good night's sleep while camping, but it works just fine now, whether it's tenting, horse camping, or the occasional backpacking trip.
Also, if you're staring at each other for hours and bored, you're not doing it right. Camping is about activity. Stay active! And there's no law about not bringing a paperback or cards. Napping in the sun is good, too.
I once spend most of four cold and rainy days in a tent with three other people, and it's a favorite camping memory. No boredom. We drank copious amounts of tea, coffee, and cocoa, played various card games, cats cradle, chess and backgammon with a travel set, told tall tales, bad jokes and lies, and generally laughed about how the rain just Would. Not. Stop.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:40 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah, you have to find a middle ground where you both get to have fun on the trip. My husband and I enjoy the car-camping road trip, but there are conditions. I have to be warm and he has to have some alone-time for taking photographs. He has gotten me a warm sleeping bag, long undies, and electric socks. We got walkie-talkies so he can wander off and take photos and still be able to be in contact with me so we don't get permanently separated. I suggest you have a similar discussion with your SO "Here's what I need. What can we do about it. What do you need?"
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:42 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:42 PM on May 17, 2011
You're getting plenty of camping advice, but one slightly different approach you might consider:
You could be the driver for the support vehicle. Let Mr. Outdoorsman hike through (for as many nights as he wants to rough it, maybe even with like-minded camping buddies) - and you can meet him at the far end of the trail with the car. He gets his dose of wilderness camping, you get to help by moving the support vehicle to shadow his route.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 8:55 PM on May 17, 2011
You could be the driver for the support vehicle. Let Mr. Outdoorsman hike through (for as many nights as he wants to rough it, maybe even with like-minded camping buddies) - and you can meet him at the far end of the trail with the car. He gets his dose of wilderness camping, you get to help by moving the support vehicle to shadow his route.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 8:55 PM on May 17, 2011
Being cold at night SUCKS. That's why I use a -10 degree sleeping bag (yes that's a negative sign in front of the ten) at all times. It definitely got fully zipped a few nights last July. Yes it cost $300 when I bought it, but that's, what?, one night at the Four Seasons?
Oh, also, if you aren't too caffeine sensitive, have some dark chocolate right before climbing in bed. It raises your body temperature to heat the bag.
(I'll let others discuss the negotiations themselves.)
posted by salvia at 9:21 PM on May 17, 2011
Oh, also, if you aren't too caffeine sensitive, have some dark chocolate right before climbing in bed. It raises your body temperature to heat the bag.
(I'll let others discuss the negotiations themselves.)
posted by salvia at 9:21 PM on May 17, 2011
My girlfriend and I had a similar problem. My idea of a good vacation was a week of back-to-back 17 mile days with big gross elevation gain. She was more the balcony-type nature lover. This was tough for me, because most of my strongest friendships are based on doing physically and mentally taxing things, and I naively wanted to replicate this with her. I missed the essential point that both people have to be invested in that goal for the experience to be worthwhile. More importantly, I failed to realize it isn't a character flaw to not want to be miserable. We've since worked things out, and she comes along on some shorter backpacking trips, provided I approach these excursions as leisurely recreation, not as athletic pursuits.
Having said that, I'm sure his desire to push you to exhibit your tough side is well-intentioned, even if it is misguided and a little elitist.
You don't have to go absolutely minimalist.
Nthing that sentiment. I don't know anyone serious about backpacking that skimps on sleeping gear, especially when it's cold at night.
Also, an important part (in my opinion) of camping is the realization that the human mind and body are built to thrive in adverse conditions with surprisingly few resources. Internalizing that attitude will help a lot in terms of making camping, and the rest of life, more enjoyable by orders of magnitude.
posted by cirgue at 11:18 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Having said that, I'm sure his desire to push you to exhibit your tough side is well-intentioned, even if it is misguided and a little elitist.
You don't have to go absolutely minimalist.
Nthing that sentiment. I don't know anyone serious about backpacking that skimps on sleeping gear, especially when it's cold at night.
Also, an important part (in my opinion) of camping is the realization that the human mind and body are built to thrive in adverse conditions with surprisingly few resources. Internalizing that attitude will help a lot in terms of making camping, and the rest of life, more enjoyable by orders of magnitude.
posted by cirgue at 11:18 PM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I froze on my first camping trip* with my boyfriend. I didn't quite cry, but damn was it miserable. It's been almost three years, and he still hasn't let me forget it - because whenever it comes up, he says he's sorry it turned out that way and we plan better for the next one.
This is one of the reasons I still camp with him. And why he's still my boyfriend.
When he wants to rough it, he goes with friends or by himself & has a blast. When he wants me to go, we day trip or car camp. And hell yeah, we have indoor plumbing, pillows and amenities - because it's time spent together and it's supposed to be fun. Hopefully your boyfriend can get a little perspective?
*Mojave Desert in January. Brrrr.
posted by Space Kitty at 12:32 AM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is one of the reasons I still camp with him. And why he's still my boyfriend.
When he wants to rough it, he goes with friends or by himself & has a blast. When he wants me to go, we day trip or car camp. And hell yeah, we have indoor plumbing, pillows and amenities - because it's time spent together and it's supposed to be fun. Hopefully your boyfriend can get a little perspective?
*Mojave Desert in January. Brrrr.
posted by Space Kitty at 12:32 AM on May 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't think quite this was said yet, so I'll throw in:
Sounds like you're a do-er, and he's a be-er. You want to go do something (canoe, raft) - then sleep inside. He wants to leave as much as possible behind, and just go out and be in the wilderness, with no agenda.
These are not that compatible if it's just the two of you. And, if I may be so bold, given that you're each comparing the other to your respective exes, well, it sounds like it may be more than just the outdoors plans that need some help. A shared enjoyment of outside stuff is not a great foundation for a relationship, and you two don't even like the same outside stuff.
But! If you're gung ho, maybe you can set up a glamping base camp (with friends?) while he does the crazy solo hikes. Do you know another couple with similarly divided interests?
posted by attercoppe at 6:07 PM on May 18, 2011
Sounds like you're a do-er, and he's a be-er. You want to go do something (canoe, raft) - then sleep inside. He wants to leave as much as possible behind, and just go out and be in the wilderness, with no agenda.
These are not that compatible if it's just the two of you. And, if I may be so bold, given that you're each comparing the other to your respective exes, well, it sounds like it may be more than just the outdoors plans that need some help. A shared enjoyment of outside stuff is not a great foundation for a relationship, and you two don't even like the same outside stuff.
But! If you're gung ho, maybe you can set up a glamping base camp (with friends?) while he does the crazy solo hikes. Do you know another couple with similarly divided interests?
posted by attercoppe at 6:07 PM on May 18, 2011
OK, after a summer season's camping, I have a couple of sleeping hacks to offer:
1. Two Therm-a-rests (or equivalent air-filled pad.) They're quite light, so the extra one doesn't add that much weight, and it makes the ground as comfortable as the Four Seasons.
2. A "security blanket": this can be as simple as a T-shirt or scarf you don't wear (because it has to smell clean). Ideally it should be soft and feel nice against your skin. When you turn out the light, drape it over your eyes and around your neck and upper chest, leaving your nose and mouth clear. The eye-drape makes it easier to sleep; the neck-and-shoulder coverage helps warm an area that most sleeping bags leave bare, as well as preventing warmth from escaping through the top of the bag. It is comforting and toasty warm.
posted by Pallas Athena at 1:09 PM on August 5, 2011
1. Two Therm-a-rests (or equivalent air-filled pad.) They're quite light, so the extra one doesn't add that much weight, and it makes the ground as comfortable as the Four Seasons.
2. A "security blanket": this can be as simple as a T-shirt or scarf you don't wear (because it has to smell clean). Ideally it should be soft and feel nice against your skin. When you turn out the light, drape it over your eyes and around your neck and upper chest, leaving your nose and mouth clear. The eye-drape makes it easier to sleep; the neck-and-shoulder coverage helps warm an area that most sleeping bags leave bare, as well as preventing warmth from escaping through the top of the bag. It is comforting and toasty warm.
posted by Pallas Athena at 1:09 PM on August 5, 2011
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The definition of "compromise" is that you both give a little. And from what I'm reading, you are the only one who is giving anything, and he's offered only scorn.
So tell him that I said the way "you" can compromise is to tell him that he's got to give a little too, by not picking on you for wanting to bring a damn pillow.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:49 PM on May 17, 2011 [10 favorites]