Another broke lawyer

May 15, 2011 10:23 AM

Is this pickle I've gotten myself into going to leave me in a vinegar-filled mason jar for the rest of my life? Can you help me redirect and find a decent life? I'm almost 35 years old. I'm a Meyer's-Briggs INFJ. Artist turned public interest lawyer, but really having a hard time.

I graduated from law school in May of 2009 and got my license in April 2010. I undertook law school in my early 30s (after years pursuing a career in art) to be an advocate for the mentally ill; but interning in psych hospitals as a legal advocate for Mental Hygiene Legal Services in NY during law school and undergoing intensive and productive therapy myself led me to reevaluate the meaning of mental illness. I disagree with the classifications in the DSM. Further, the law is usually unable to help victims of the state mental health system. I could not sit there and tell another person that the state could inject them with Haldol or some other narcoleptic once a month even if they (the patient) fiercely objected to it. The MHLS attorneys were perpetuating the institutionalization/homelessness/poverty cycle that many people who struggle with mental health issues find themselves in.

I have discovered a great non-profit that focuses on alternatives to traditional psychiatry (MFI), but it's not well funded and is in Oregon and I'm not clear on what I could do to assist their work. So my focus on mental health law has become a more general focus on "poverty law" or public interest law. This change in focus means that I graduated from law school without any job offers, and very little impressive legal experience. In fact, I'm soft-spoken and kind of awkward in a way that it seems most type-A attorneys don't much like or understand, so I no longer list my MHLS experience on my resume or tell them that I originally wanted to do work in mental health law because I worry it will lead all potential employers to assume I'm crazy.

I used to think I was bipolar and took lamictal, but it did not help; I was reassessed several years ago as depressive, not bipolar. My mother lives on disability for paranoid schizophrenia. My issues seem to stem more from having been raised by a paranoid schizophrenic mother than anything else. Sometimes clouds of paranoia pass through me, especially when I'm really stressed out. But my paranoia is more that I don't trust anyone, not that I think the phones are tapped (like my Mom). So while I've been reprieved from any serious psychosis or mania, my depression is a fierce dragon. It can level me. Often by Friday of the work week I desperately need to spend the day alone in my room with my head under the covers. After a day of that I'm restored and can tackle life again.

But right now, today, this rainy Sunday afternoon in Western New York, it's time for me to find myself a job and sell my skills to the world, but I feel unable to. I feel that I don't have anything to offer anyone, that I will be poor and depressed for the rest of my life. I want out of this hole (federal debt, credit card debt etc.) but do not see how to make it happen. I miss art. I miss artists. I miss being part of a culture where the emotional realm is a given and not a problem. I don't like most lawyers. They're kind of spastic and aggressive. So it's hard to get motivated to find a job working with people who I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like. But then I start to think that's just the depression talking.

I'm in therapy and I try to exercise regularly and eat well and don't use drugs or drink beyond the weekend beer/wine so that's all under control... I'm near the end of a one-year contract with AmeriCorps (original K ends in June but the site where I'm working has asked me to stay until September -- can't really afford to do it, though, at $900 per month). This post is a little indulgent, but I'm in need of support and feedback, so whatever you can muster I will take it right in.

posted by Ventre Mou to work & money (12 answers total)

Is there any aspect of the practice of law you like or think you might be good at? What parts of past jobs have you liked and felt were a good fit?
posted by yarly at 10:34 AM on May 15, 2011

As far as support: Stop beating yourself up. There.

As far as feeling lost: Well, welcome to the New Century. We're all lost.


You sound like so, SO many other people -- and the one good thing about this Recession (I've found) is that it's like a free-for-all for most of us in terms of changing careers, taking jobs we never thought we would, moving across the country for work, whatever - and while that is scary as hell, it's also new and freeing and risky and COULD turn out to be fun.

I think you're letting the mental health stuff hold you down (been there, done that, believe me), and if you want to feel better the first step is to get that stuff under control. Leave your mother out of it, and focus on how YOU are going to be "normal" and successful and happ(ier).

You say you have debts, so you obviously need to work. Find yourself a nice low-maintenance job -- think in terms of the next year, or the next nine months -- it doesn't have to be forever. Cut your expenses to the bone, work as little as you can get away with and still pay your rent and credit card bills. That will help with the stress, and the needing-to-hide after a full work week.

While you're working part-time, you will have more time and energy to get your head together. Double-up on the therapy. Start a list of non-profits like the one you linked and start emailing them all. Work on your portfolio so that you might be able to transition back into art at the end of your year. Treat it like an adventure. One more year of being poor, while you "figure stuff out" and then LAUNCH.

It sounds really simplistic and 'easier said than done' -- but I've just done it, except my "year" turned into two. I had a LOT of time to think and plan and my job was so low-stress that I didn't think about it once I left the building.

What does your therapist say about all this?
posted by polly_dactyl at 10:45 AM on May 15, 2011 [5 favorites]

To be honest, a lot of your post sounds like the depression talking, so I encourage you to get a lot of external support as you put one foot in front of the other during what is a difficult time for all recent grads. You can do it, but having support will help make sure you're making the best possible decisions for yourself now.

I'm soft-spoken and kind of awkward in a way that it seems most type-A attorneys don't much like or understand

It doesn't sound like you're worried about this, but just in case -- there's still a place for you even if you don't present as a typical lawyer. I know several who made it despite being soft-spoken, calm, unassuming. (I mention this because sometimes they worried if their demeanor was a barrier.)

I no longer list my MHLS experience on my resume or tell them that I originally wanted to do work in mental health law because I worry it will lead all potential employers to assume I'm crazy

I would put it back on your resume. That is valuable experience. Having no experience is probably a much bigger problem than any unfounded suspicions they might have.

If you're worried about the assumptions they'll make, then somewhere in your cover letter talk about "helping those with the least voice" or something other than "helping others like myself." Public interest lawyers help indigent farmworkers, immigrants, endangered plants, the homeless.... quite often without themselves being homeless immigrant plants. :) There are many possible explanations for both being quiet / awkward and having a background in mental health law (e.g., that your quiet nature makes you more sensitive to those who struggle).

it's hard to get motivated to find a job working with people who I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like

Many, many lawyers feel this way. It may be a challenge for the first year or so, but from watching others in my circle, it seems likely that you will get used to it.

Further, the law is usually unable to help victims of the state mental health system.

This seems like the biggest issue -- that your chosen field is not working out. Some suggestions:
- secure paying work of any sort for the short term (even extend that contract?)
- explore options with mental health nonprofits to do policy work / legislative reform
- do "informational interviews" with others in your field about whether there are good options in mental health law for you (could you get a fellowship with some academic institution to write a white paper on what protections the law has for the mentally ill, and what reforms are needed to close the gaps?)
- continue applying for other public law jobs and emphasizing how your MHLS experience qualifies you (though if you decide you'd prefer working in another public interest law field, you might have to do volunteer internships to get the qualifications you need)

Good luck!
posted by salvia at 10:59 AM on May 15, 2011 [1 favorite]

Thank you both for your comments so far.
Yarly: I have enjoyed interviewing and counseling clients, listening to their stories and looking for solutions for them. I also enjoy ideas -- IP law is interesting but out of my grasp at this point. I went to a school that is known for public interest law. Great school but specific.
Polly_dactyl: my therapist supports my need to be someplace safe and secure. She thinks my efforts to find that are most important. I agree with her. I also agree with what you're saying -- work and be gentle with myself and trust that I'm moving forward. Was your stress-free job outside an office? Offices are terrible...
posted by Ventre Mou at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2011

People assuming you're crazy because you worked for MHLS is like people assuming I'm a criminal because I'm a criminal defense attorney.
posted by jayder at 11:21 AM on May 15, 2011 [2 favorites]

Why not look around for various artists/musicians/filmmakers/theater groups, etc. who might need legal advice or legal work. You can offer your services without being a shrill pushy legal-beagle type. Here in Los Angeles, all sorts of lawyers and small firms advertise in the Services section of CL. Being a low-key sort of person might be attractive to artsy types who'd be put off by a high-pressure firm.
posted by Ideefixe at 11:22 AM on May 15, 2011

I don't think this has anything to do with your work per se, more of your perception of the work.

For starters, your logic about listing MHLS will lead people into thinking you're crazy is way way off. That's like saying you worked for the public defenders office bc you are a criminal who couldn't afford an attorney (on preview: exactly what jayder said). Just because you advocate for someone's rights (the mentally ill, the child soldiers, the homosexuals, the minorities, etc), doesn't make you one.

It's fine to switch career routes in law, I've met several attorneys that have worked in completely different fields throughout their careers.

Most lawyers don't like most other lawyers. That's normal. They're just better at disguising it. The important part is to figure out how to get along with them (even though you would never have chosen to spend time with them if you didn't have to) in order to create an optimal work environment.

I know being a lawyer and in debt = working A LOT of hours. And regardless, law seems to take over people's lives and you know you'll never be the same. But are actually ARE still an artist. Try to make some time for non-lawyer stuff, like art. Even if it's just an hour a week, it'll help you feel better and remind you that it is possible to have joy and law in one's life.
One of the biggest reasons why lawyers are so prone to substance abuse is to fill the emptiness bc they make law their priority 1-99 (priority #100 is everything else). Don't do that to yourself. You're setting yourself up for getting burnt out if you don't have other things in your life, like a place where you feel safe (and that "place" can be the time in which you are pursuing your hobbies).
posted by Neekee at 11:28 AM on May 15, 2011 [1 favorite]

Was your stress-free job outside an office? Offices are terrible...

Ding, ding, ding -- winner! In 2008 I was willing to work for $8 an hour if it meant not having to be in a cubicle ever again. It was in retail (I moved across the country, so I took literally the first job that I got offered) - extremely challenging for me because I'm pretty shy. But that was a good challenge, as opposed to the "Can I make it through this day without crying?" type of challenge.

I was able to breathe and reboot, bought a bike and started riding it every day, eating better and reconnecting with friends. Now after two years I'm back in my field -- design is not as stressful as law by any means, but there is a LOT of money at stake and the personalities tend to be larger than life... ugh. Even still I'm trying to keep my perspective and my sanity by not letting (or expecting) my job to define my life.

The lower your living expenses, the more freedom you will have to try on jobs and 'see what fits.'
posted by polly_dactyl at 11:35 AM on May 15, 2011 [1 favorite]

Perhaps you could look into joining a law practice that specializes in Social Security Disability and/or Workers' Compensation law. You could feel good about working to solve some of the same types of problems that you had hoped to address in mental health law. The work is relatively non-adversarial, so the other lawyers that you would be dealing with all day would tend not to be abrasive jerks.

These specialties would be quite easy to learn for someone with your background. I have a few lawyer friends who did this; they earned a very solid income while working not nearly as hard nor suffering nearly as much stress as most lawyers do. Actually, they seemed to be having a really good time.

I think this could be a really good fit for you. Start taking some CLE courses to learn the basics of the practice, start interviewing and see what happens. It could at least give you a decent source of income til your debts are under control and your long term goals get a little clearer.
posted by Corvid at 12:45 PM on May 15, 2011

Hello, fellow INFJ here! I am soft-spoken and awkward in a way most people (let alone lawyers) don't understand, too. I feel like I know so much about you already, ha.

I'm sorry you don't like your job. I was feeling down and kinda lost in my job recently and asked about good jobs for INFJs on here. Someone commented that they were an INFJ and that part of our personality type is that we are too idealistic, sometimes, and also tend to avoid conflict. So, when we run into a conflict, we think 1. Wait a minute! This isn't supposed to happen! My world is idealistic! and 2. Uh-oh, I don't want to deal with this conflict, so I'll run away. But I understand you're in americorps now, so you've had time to reflect on the lawyer gig and why it didn't work out. I feel kinda lost and like I can't take action when I'm a little depressed, too, so I understand where you are coming from.

My friend actually did art history as an undergrad and is in law school to support art preservation. That might be a neat way to combine your law training with your love of art. Just a thought.
posted by shortyJBot at 1:21 PM on May 15, 2011

Fellow public-interest attorney who hates most other attorneys at your service:

1) Focus on taming the depression dragon. It seems hard to problem-solve about "Aiyieee! What am I going to do with my life?!" when you have that bringing you down. Get therapy, see a psychiatrist to get your meds sorted if they need to be reevaluated. Also, working in a poorly funded area while battling depression may be more than you can handle. Be nice to yourself. Maybe take a break from the mental health advocacy until you get your mental health and financial health sorted?

2) If you want to continue to work in the law, but avoid lawyers, you might work for a foundation that supports the arts or mental health issues or other public good. For a while, I was thinking about working for Google's philanthropic arm, for example. I have friends who are in the general counsel's office at a university or a hospital and they seem to have a good quality of life and less oppressive lawyerness afoot. Another friend was the mayor's point person on the arts. This does involve offices, but I think that may be okay temporarily while you're getting on your feet, career-wise. Also, may have decent health insurance, which would be nice.

3) Maybe what you love may take you outside the law. Maybe you'll be a social worker who can really help clients with legal issues, maybe you'll start your own non-profit that does the work that you couldn't do with Mental Hygiene Legal Services.

4) It's a process. When I was in school, I thought I wanted to negotiate international trade deals, but instead I'm a public defender. It sort of sucked when I tried my hand at being a transactional lawyer and realized I was horrible at it and also it bored me to tears and I was surrounded by people who weren't for me, but I remembered my favorite thing I did in school was to volunteer at a death penalty clinic. So I started moving in that direction. First, I became a litigator in the civil context and did a lot of pro bono work. Then, I made some connections and applied for a few jobs that were a better fit for me than working at an international law firm. Now I get to be a connection for other people and introduce them around. I think it's rare for someone to get it exactly right straight out of law school and it doesn't mean you messed up if it takes a few iterations to land something that makes your heart sing.
posted by *s at 8:57 AM on May 16, 2011

First, MHLS is a pretty depressing place to work because the system is heavily weighted against the MHLS attorneys and their clients, as you learned. You shouldn't assume that other experiences will be similar. Even if you aren't able to directly advocate for mentally ill people the way you thought you would by working at MHLS, you can look for jobs where you advocate for them to get SSI/D, public assistance, food stamps, housing, etc. (in other words, your standard poverty law areas).

If you do other work in poverty law, you'll probably find yourself working with mentally ill people pretty regularly, so don't think that your experience at MHLS is irrelevant to you as you branch out and explore other things. For that reason, you should absolutely keep MHLS on your resume. (Also because any experience is good experience. You learned from it, and leaving it off would leave a gap in your resume, I assume.)
posted by Mavri at 12:57 PM on May 16, 2011