Looking for characters who face subtle consequences because of their character flaws
May 14, 2011 11:27 PM Subscribe
Looking for subtle examples in fiction: a character is manipulated by others and faces consequences, or screws himself/herself over, because of his/her own character flaws or immoral actions.
I'm looking for subtle examples of this -- whatever you consider to be subtle. Things that aren't spelled out in your face or done as a really overt point, basically. I'm more interested in characters that aren't total villains, and actions that are more immoral than out-and-out evil.
Two examples that I considered to be relatively subtle, although they might be super obvious to others (major spoilers ahead for the Godfather and Sweeney Todd):
1. In the Godfather, Carlo is trying to lure Sonny to an ambush. Carlo beats up Sonny's sister, because he knows Sonny will react with rage and drive to Carlo's house to get revenge, without thinking. Carlo plants hit men along the route Sonny takes to get to Carlo's house. Sonny's quickness to anger/rashness allowed his actions to be predicted, and allowed him to be trapped and killed.
2. In Sweeney Todd, Judge Turpin sends Sweeney Todd into exile for 15 years in order to take Sweeney Todd's wife and daughter for himself. When Sweeney Todd returns, he is told that his wife and daughter are dead. He becomes consumed with revenge for what has been taken from him, not realizing his wife and daughter are alive and within his reach. Another man finds Sweeney Todd's daughter, frees her from Judge Turpin, and runs away with her. Sweeney Todd then murders his wife, believing her to be someone else. Sweeney Todd could have recovered everything that was taken from him, ironically, were he not singlemindedly focused on his revenge for those things being taken from him. It's his focus on revenge and bloodthirstiness, in the end, not Judge Turpin, that permanently take those things away from him.
On second thought, although I'm primarily interested in examples from fiction, I'm also interested in examples from real life.
I'm looking for subtle examples of this -- whatever you consider to be subtle. Things that aren't spelled out in your face or done as a really overt point, basically. I'm more interested in characters that aren't total villains, and actions that are more immoral than out-and-out evil.
Two examples that I considered to be relatively subtle, although they might be super obvious to others (major spoilers ahead for the Godfather and Sweeney Todd):
1. In the Godfather, Carlo is trying to lure Sonny to an ambush. Carlo beats up Sonny's sister, because he knows Sonny will react with rage and drive to Carlo's house to get revenge, without thinking. Carlo plants hit men along the route Sonny takes to get to Carlo's house. Sonny's quickness to anger/rashness allowed his actions to be predicted, and allowed him to be trapped and killed.
2. In Sweeney Todd, Judge Turpin sends Sweeney Todd into exile for 15 years in order to take Sweeney Todd's wife and daughter for himself. When Sweeney Todd returns, he is told that his wife and daughter are dead. He becomes consumed with revenge for what has been taken from him, not realizing his wife and daughter are alive and within his reach. Another man finds Sweeney Todd's daughter, frees her from Judge Turpin, and runs away with her. Sweeney Todd then murders his wife, believing her to be someone else. Sweeney Todd could have recovered everything that was taken from him, ironically, were he not singlemindedly focused on his revenge for those things being taken from him. It's his focus on revenge and bloodthirstiness, in the end, not Judge Turpin, that permanently take those things away from him.
On second thought, although I'm primarily interested in examples from fiction, I'm also interested in examples from real life.
Though perhaps orthogonal for your needs, I believe the general idea you're looking for is hamartia.
posted by rhizome at 12:14 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by rhizome at 12:14 AM on May 15, 2011
I wouldn't normally go to fantasy for subtlety, but K. J. Parker's Engineer Trilogy--Devices and Desires, Evil for Evil, and The Escapement--is one enormous answer to your question.
posted by nasreddin at 12:15 AM on May 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by nasreddin at 12:15 AM on May 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
Michael Connelly does this kind of thing a lot, usually for reasons similar to your Godfather example; Harry Bosch is hotheaded, and gets goaded into situations he should know better than to go running into. One of his non-Bosch books--The Brass Verdict--also features this. It's kind of too tedious to explain the plot background, but a guilty as hell client recognizes the lawyer main character's not-so-secret belief that no one is truly innocent, so creates a convincing story that dirties him somewhat, instead of pretending to be innocent of the crime. The lawyer buys into it, but of course the client is lying.
And this is all kind of related to the trope of the serial killer who knows the cop/FBI agent/detective who is his only truly worthy foe, so he creates some elaborate device to get the cop drawn into the case, knowing what his weakness is.
posted by Ideal Impulse at 12:19 AM on May 15, 2011
And this is all kind of related to the trope of the serial killer who knows the cop/FBI agent/detective who is his only truly worthy foe, so he creates some elaborate device to get the cop drawn into the case, knowing what his weakness is.
posted by Ideal Impulse at 12:19 AM on May 15, 2011
"... On second thought, although I'm primarily interested in examples from fiction, I'm also interested in examples from real life."
posted by Ashley801
I think you need look no further than George Armstrong Custer for a prime example of the folly that can claim a man, whose faults include overarching pride and a life long desire for fame.
posted by paulsc at 12:21 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by Ashley801
I think you need look no further than George Armstrong Custer for a prime example of the folly that can claim a man, whose faults include overarching pride and a life long desire for fame.
posted by paulsc at 12:21 AM on May 15, 2011
First thought: Remains of The Day. Coincidentally, one of my favorite novels.
posted by Qberting at 12:22 AM on May 15, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Qberting at 12:22 AM on May 15, 2011 [3 favorites]
Happens to a ton of characters in George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series.
posted by ambulatorybird at 12:36 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by ambulatorybird at 12:36 AM on May 15, 2011
The House of Mirth springs to mind. The protagonist, Lily Bart, makes continual errors in judgement and behavior that lead to her downfall. Her gambling leaves her in debt, so that she is forced to act in ways more and more mercenary to attract a wealthy husband in hopes of paying her debts. It also causes her Aunt to disinherit her. And yet, because of her carelessness, she continually sabotages every opportunity she has to make an advantageous match. As time goes on, her failure to understand her precarious social position gets her into even more trouble.
Yet in the end there is a reverse, as it is actually Lily's refusal to be truly immoral that leads to her ultimate demise. She refuses the last of her opportunities to marry because she desires a marriage based on some level of mutual respect, and she also refuses to use information that would harm the reputation of her friend Seldon to improve her social position.
posted by katyggls at 12:59 AM on May 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yet in the end there is a reverse, as it is actually Lily's refusal to be truly immoral that leads to her ultimate demise. She refuses the last of her opportunities to marry because she desires a marriage based on some level of mutual respect, and she also refuses to use information that would harm the reputation of her friend Seldon to improve her social position.
posted by katyggls at 12:59 AM on May 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
I just finished Of Human Bondage by W. Somerset Maugham.
It's excellent. The protagonist Philip Carey is an orphan with a clubfoot who continually gets in trouble throughout his childhood, adolescence, and adulthood because of his pride and aloofness. His single-mindedness and strong will cause him to give up different careers as a clerk, painter, and doctor before running through his inheritence, but also gives him a dignity and thoughtfulness that serve him well and allow him to keep hope alive in the worst poverty.
posted by Nixy at 1:59 AM on May 15, 2011
It's excellent. The protagonist Philip Carey is an orphan with a clubfoot who continually gets in trouble throughout his childhood, adolescence, and adulthood because of his pride and aloofness. His single-mindedness and strong will cause him to give up different careers as a clerk, painter, and doctor before running through his inheritence, but also gives him a dignity and thoughtfulness that serve him well and allow him to keep hope alive in the worst poverty.
posted by Nixy at 1:59 AM on May 15, 2011
Another fantastic example of this, just exactly perfect: Til We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis. It's a retelling of the Cupid and Psyche myth from the perspective of Psyche's ugly older sister Orual. She has a very hard lot in life and you feel great sympathy for her, while ultimately realizing how she causes her own suffering due to overwhelming jealousy and possesiveness. It's very subtle and plays out in intricate ways. The ending just slays me.
posted by Nixy at 2:12 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by Nixy at 2:12 AM on May 15, 2011
So basically Othello?
posted by lollusc at 2:45 AM on May 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by lollusc at 2:45 AM on May 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
There seems to be a lot of this going on in Shakespeare.
Example 1: in Henry V, Scroop, Cambridge and Grey (who have sold out to the king of France) tell Henry to show no mercy to traitors, which seals their fate;
Example 2: in Richard III lady Anne curses Richard's future wife, wishing she will be made as miserable by his death as Anne is now. Anne ends up married to Richard and, though he survives her, her life with him is as miserable as she wished upon herself.
posted by rjs at 3:33 AM on May 15, 2011
Example 1: in Henry V, Scroop, Cambridge and Grey (who have sold out to the king of France) tell Henry to show no mercy to traitors, which seals their fate;
Example 2: in Richard III lady Anne curses Richard's future wife, wishing she will be made as miserable by his death as Anne is now. Anne ends up married to Richard and, though he survives her, her life with him is as miserable as she wished upon herself.
posted by rjs at 3:33 AM on May 15, 2011
The exact opposite of subtle, but Oedipus fits the bill nicely. Apart from the little fact that he's been set up by the Oracle, his own character flaws blind him to what he's doing.
(Oh my, that's bad.)
posted by zachawry at 5:01 AM on May 15, 2011
(Oh my, that's bad.)
posted by zachawry at 5:01 AM on May 15, 2011
A more lowbrow example: Marty McFly and 'nobody calls me chicken'.
posted by maybeandroid at 5:30 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by maybeandroid at 5:30 AM on May 15, 2011
This is a spoiler: In Lian Hearn's The Tales of the Otori series, the main character does many extremely impressive and admirable things (uniting a war-torn country and providing peaceful and more prosperous lives for his subjects, for instance) but he is ultimately undone by a bad judgment he made about withholding information from his wife. I'm not sure how subtle this is, but Takeo definitely fits the criterion of "not an evil character who makes an immoral decision."
posted by mlle valentine at 8:16 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by mlle valentine at 8:16 AM on May 15, 2011
The Coen Brothers' films are gold for this concept. Try "Burn After Reading" or "A Serious Man". All of the characters suffer the consequences of their own myopic agendas.
posted by effluvia at 8:20 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by effluvia at 8:20 AM on May 15, 2011
I may off but Following seems like it will fit the bill.
posted by Green With You at 10:03 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by Green With You at 10:03 AM on May 15, 2011
A Song of Ice and Fire immediately came to my mind as well. Stephen King does this sort of thing a lot too, sometimes with more subtlety than others though.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:07 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:07 AM on May 15, 2011
Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. An amazing documentary by Errol Morris about a man with big ideas about himself and his place in the world who isn't quite bright enough to understand how these impulses are leading to his own destruction.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2011
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2011
Madame Bovary is probably the best novel about character flaws that lead to inevitable tragedy. Anna Karenina too.
Don't disparage strong plotting. Shakespeare's tragedies are full of blood and thunder, but the stories are subtle tales about how the strongest aspect of the hero's character leads him wrong:
Hamlet -- intelligence, inwardness
Romeo and Juliet -- adolescent love
Antony and Cleopatra -- adult love
Othello -- the man of action
Macbeth -- the intelligent man with no core of honor
Lear -- the king who can't stop thinking like a king
Switch characters and there would be no tragedy. Put Othello in place of Hamlet and he would kill Claudius and be done with it. Hamlet would see through Iago's trickery in a blink.
posted by KRS at 12:17 PM on May 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
Don't disparage strong plotting. Shakespeare's tragedies are full of blood and thunder, but the stories are subtle tales about how the strongest aspect of the hero's character leads him wrong:
Hamlet -- intelligence, inwardness
Romeo and Juliet -- adolescent love
Antony and Cleopatra -- adult love
Othello -- the man of action
Macbeth -- the intelligent man with no core of honor
Lear -- the king who can't stop thinking like a king
Switch characters and there would be no tragedy. Put Othello in place of Hamlet and he would kill Claudius and be done with it. Hamlet would see through Iago's trickery in a blink.
posted by KRS at 12:17 PM on May 15, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Wonderful examples, everyone!! Thank you!!
posted by Ashley801 at 4:21 PM on May 15, 2011
posted by Ashley801 at 4:21 PM on May 15, 2011
Too late? If not: Antechrista, by Amelie Nothomb.
all about realistic, subtle manipulation especially in a friendship context, and the notion of power in friendship
posted by kitsuloukos at 5:04 PM on May 15, 2011
all about realistic, subtle manipulation especially in a friendship context, and the notion of power in friendship
posted by kitsuloukos at 5:04 PM on May 15, 2011
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The Kristin Lavransdatter series by Sigrid Undset also deals with these issues in a really subtle way. Kristin's choices as a young girl color her entire future life, distracting her and detracting from the real matters at hand.
posted by mynameisluka at 11:43 PM on May 14, 2011 [1 favorite]