Could you lend me hand with this chip on my shoulder?

May 10, 2011 11:37 PM

It's recently come to my attention that I am embarrassed about the school I went to for my undergraduate degree.

Now it's not necessarily a bad school. On the contrary, it is very good for the field I went to. It is however 1) not very well known and 2) a state college.

When I spend time with people that went to those "big namers," I find myself saying things like "oh it's a small school a few miles north of where I live, you've probably never heard of it" or "it's actually one of the oldest schools for my profession, very distinguished actually." Geez.

Unfortunately, it remains to be one of my biggest regrets that I didn't apply to more schools or appropriately rate my aptitude to get into a "big namer" in high school. Nonetheless you have to live with the decisions you made and hey, there's always grad school right?

How do I get over this chip on my shoulder? Does it really matter in the long run what school you went to for your undergraduate? Maybe those wiser MeFi's who have lived a bit longer in this world can throw me a bone. Help me regain my academic self-confidence!

posted by northxnorthwest to education (56 answers total)

People who care about academic "pedigree" are obnoxious and you should avoid them.
posted by bardic at 11:43 PM on May 10, 2011 [22 favorites]

I heard a story once about a new writer on SNL, I think it was. Some of the older, Ivy-League-educated writers were taunting her about the "bad" school she'd gone to. She responded, "Oh, but I'm actually funny."

If you can do what you do, it doesn't matter where you went to school. People who brag about where they went are usually covering up for a lack of talent or skill.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:53 PM on May 10, 2011 [15 favorites]

I actually regret where I went to school too. But it's because I went to a big, state, engineering school when I clearly belonged at a smaller liberal arts school. I regret the missed opportunities and the the missed experience of being around people more like me. But anyone who wants to give me a hard time because I "only" went to Maryland can suck my balls.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:55 PM on May 10, 2011 [4 favorites]

I was denied admission to every university I applied to, got into my backup-of-backups on appeal, thought it was going to be terrible - and then had what was, bar none, the most fantastic four years of my life, full stop.

The chip on my shoulder was nuked from orbit by the awesome experiences I had - and the money I saved. The next time this comes up, think about an amazing class you took, a professor who really influenced the way you think about your field now, or a great party you went to.
posted by mdonley at 12:03 AM on May 11, 2011 [2 favorites]

I'm just about to be moved halfway around the world to work for an employer who has never heard of the place I got my undergrad degree and doesn't even know what marks I got there (and I would have to explain how the grading system worked so they could understand my academic record if they asked).

I would be excluded from being able to do this outright without a degree, because they're very important for being able to apply for lots of jobs, and also for visas. I can't get a work visa for that country without a degree. And that employer only takes non-graduates in extreme circumstances.

In my opinion, and in my experience, your school and your grades don't matter as much as you think they do, but having done a degree is quite important. Be happy with yourself for having done your degree.

If anyone ever gave me grief about where I went to university, I would be genuinely confused and concerned. "You've heard of X, and you've heard it's bad in a particular way? Could you tell me in which way? How does it compare to Y? Oh you have no idea and you're judging it out of hand for simply being in category Z, that's appalling. How do you live with yourself as a person being so closed minde.... oh. I see. You are that closed minded. I'm afraid I would like you to not speak to me again. Please refer all further contact through an intermediary."
posted by Jerub at 12:04 AM on May 11, 2011 [7 favorites]

Hey, at least you went to college and graduated. A lot of people couldn't or didn't. You don't need to prove anything to anyone about your education. It sounds like you are trying to prove something to yourself, though.
posted by twblalock at 12:09 AM on May 11, 2011 [5 favorites]

Most people don't know much about university rankings when they apply for undergrad. (Not beyond Ivy vs non-ivy, anyway). So don't judge yourself for making a mistake, even if you feel like it was a mistake. It doesn't sound like you should regret your decision, though - it was good for your field and as it was a state school, presumably you aren't in huge amounts of debt. That makes way more difference to your life than a nebulous feeling that you could have done better for yourself.

If you are planning to go to grad school, and it sounds like you are, get into a good grad school. Afterwards no one will care where you did your undergrad work. And if, as you say, your undergrad was highly regarded in your field, then it won't hinder your grad applications that you went there.

If people outside of your field are judging you for where you went to school, I have to wonder why you are having these discussions with them at all. Don't your so-called friends have better things to talk about?
posted by lollusc at 12:23 AM on May 11, 2011

Some universities are better than others. That is a fact and leads to this obsessiveness amongst some small minded people.

However, people getting into the best universities is not purely meritocratic and anyone with any real intelligence knows this. As one of my high school teachers (who went to the academically "best" University in the UK) said to me "There's no point in congratulating yourself over going to Cambridge over someone else when you don't know whether the odds were stacked in your favour or stacked against them."

What you achieve is what you achieve and that is what matters. Where you go to university makes a difference and is certainly a reflection of ability but it is very far from an index of ability. Lose the chip.
posted by inbetweener at 12:37 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

Sorry to tell you this, but going to a big name college does matter - it's naive to say otherwise. College isn't about education and skills, it's also about impressing people, and the simple fact is that people aren't impressed by your college. That hurts, but only because you want to impress people because you identify with your social status. It's tempting to try to devalue the people judging you to make it hurt less, but that doesn't change the root of the problem: you care about what they think to begin with. If you really didn't care, then when someone looked askance at your college, you would just explain that you aren't very smart.

This whole business of convincing yourself that judgments about colleges are flawed ways of evaluating people is just a way of rationalizing to yourself that if society evaluated worth accurately, you would probably be somewhere near the top. Pretty much everyone thinks that they deserve more social status than they have.
posted by AlsoMike at 12:41 AM on May 11, 2011 [3 favorites]

It's got a good program for your field? Fuck the couch of anyone who gives you shit for going to a 'small' college. Did you enjoy it? Are you happy? Fuck their couches, man.
posted by Heretical at 12:49 AM on May 11, 2011 [2 favorites]

The farther out from graduation you are, the less it matters where you went. Your work experience becomes the bulk of your resume and shows what you're capable of. You'll have achieved those things without the launching pad of a "pedigree" education, which will be all the more reason to be proud of yourself. Personally, I'd be more impressed by someone who managed to get hired by (say) Google without the benefit of having their recruiting team show up on campus.

If you're serious about going to grad school, maybe it's more relevant to consider whether the lack of recognition behind your your degree (or the content of the education you got) will hurt your chances there. But if the school is known within your field and you continue in it, this won't be an issue.

Maybe you'd be more comfortable if you switched to saying "I went to which has a great department"?
posted by mvd at 12:57 AM on May 11, 2011

Increasingly today there seems to be two schools of thought in schools as to how to produce good graduates, with two extremes, and shades of grey in between. At one extreme is the school that will accept any student with the money to pay the fees, but offers a gruelling curriculum to ensure that only the very best can manage to graduate. At the other extreme is the big name schools - they will accept only a few of the finest (or most highly connected) students, and then give them a curriculum that all but ensures that even the slackers can graduate. (In some cases the course-wide GPA's are so high that it's clear that failing marks aren't even on the table.)

Both approaches tend to result in degrees (and education) ending up in the hands of decent enough students, but when you look at these systems so nakedly, it takes some of the mystique out of the big names, which perhaps might take some of the wind out of your annoyance.

You can perhaps feel regret about having a bit less chance for college-age friendships with tomorrow's social elite, but you shouldn't feel regret related to your actual education, because chances are you got a better education than you would have at a big name.

After you've been in the workforce a few years, college just doesn't matter very much. At that point, the advantage of a big name is the implication that you come from wealth or connections (or worked your ass off in highschool). How much any of that matters depends on your field (or the context of the conversation). I think what impresses people about a big name school is the overtones of stuff other than actual education. If it's about actual education or being qualified, you're ok.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:40 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'll also second Jerub's experience - my degree has been vital on a few occasions, but school or grades have never mattered. It's always just a check-box thing. Yes/no. This work visa requires that this box be checked. Is it checked? You may proceed. etc.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:50 AM on May 11, 2011

I think that I'm in a similar situation to you. I went to an excellent but lesser known school, got a great education, had an amazing experience, but in retrospect I regret the way that I made the college decision. I wish that I had aimed a bit higher in my applications.

However, I do not feel that I have a chip on my shoulder. Maybe some of the reasons why will help you:

1. As I said, the faculty at my school were excellent, and I received a very high quality education.

2. I am happy with my life afterwards, so the school must have done smething right.

3. I am responsible for my own knowledge and skills. If I don't know X but wish I did, well, I've been out of school long enough that I should have had time to teach myself by now.

4. I do not regret going to the school that I did, just that I didn't think carefully enough about which school to go to.

5. In major life decisions that I've made since then, I have not made the same mistake. This is probably the biggest consolation.

Basically, I'd say stop thinking abut it and enjoy your life!
posted by sesquipedalian at 2:18 AM on May 11, 2011

Oh, and if which college you went to is your biggest regret in life, you haven't been out of school very long!
posted by sesquipedalian at 2:20 AM on May 11, 2011 [11 favorites]

People who care about academic "pedigree" are obnoxious and you should avoid them control HR departments and many senior positions in academia.

But if you're not planning on an academic career, then once you get over the initial hurdle of landing an okay job, several years of work experience should outweigh this factor.
posted by moorooka at 2:47 AM on May 11, 2011

It's not really about the school. It's about how you feel about yourself. If you felt confident in who you are and what you know, the problem of the school would vanish.
posted by Obscure Reference at 3:48 AM on May 11, 2011

I'm the opposite. I went to a "name" school (top 20). I advertise this on my resume, and (as much as I can) nowhere else. I feel like a fraud because everyone who finds out I went there starts gushing and saying "oh you must be *so* smart!!!"

Fuckin' place was a meat grinder/rich person reinforcement like all the rest, and I kick myself for not going to the state school that focuses on my degree (engineering), instead.
posted by notsnot at 4:12 AM on May 11, 2011 [4 favorites]

I'm in law school now and from what I've noticed, where you went to undergrad really doesn't matter. There are some brilliant people who went to good old state school, and some idiots who went to the absolute best school in their field and/or famous name schools. In other words: it really doesn't matter.
The only ones who really care are the ones who are feeling insecure about jobs/grades/whatever and need to enforce the "look at me, I went to famous school, that's gotta count for something, right?"
posted by Neekee at 4:20 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

2nding mdonley.

I deliberately chose what many people would consider a joke course at a second rate university. Probably could have gone to Oxford or Cambridge if I'd wanted to. Never regretted it. Despite sneers the course itself was great. Had a good time there, living in a city where the living costs were real low.

I don't know if it's different in the States, but here in the UK (in my experience anyway) no one really cares too much about the exact details of your degree, even employers. I never picked up my certificate, but have never been asked to prove my qualifications, and I'm not even sure that I've mentioned my actual grade.

Don't add in the qualifiers about the school when you mention it, as you're denigrating yourself, or at least putting yourself on the back foot. If people ask further details then you can confidentally say 'yes, it's [located at X]. Have good memories of the place, and the course was great for my profession' or whatever.

This isn't a great original insight, but it's worth underlining: If other people care that much about whether you went to a big name college, they're dicks.
posted by spectrevsrector at 4:24 AM on May 11, 2011

Generally, the only pedigree schools that matter are ones that matter on the graduate level on up. So going to a second-tier law school, or getting your MBA from an online graduate course might be great for experience, but can be a roadblock when trying to be hired. It sucks, but there it is.

I've seen a ton of CVs/resumes in my various careers, and undergraduate schools almost never matter in that respect. In fact, a good number of people who went on to "prestigious" graduate/PhD programs joke about the "party schools" they went to for undergrad.
posted by xingcat at 4:32 AM on May 11, 2011

I used to feel awkward telling people where I went to undergrad because it's a very well known school and I was worried people would think I was a snob or something. But to be honest, nobody really gives a shit, and the longer you're out of school, the less it will matter. Plus, you're probably in a lot less debt than your peers who went to big named schools.
posted by emd3737 at 4:46 AM on May 11, 2011

I went to two big-name schools. I think it's more often off-putting ("Oh, you must be really smart" -- abrupt end of conversation) than impressive, and people who make a THING about it are mostly douches with poor interpersonal skills so all those connections aren't going to do them as much good as they think.

But here's the thing. My husband and I are lawyers. Brand-name schools mean a fair amount, especially among younger lawyers. You're the one guy at the white shoe firm who got his law degree going to night classes at John Marshall instead of at Chicago or Michigan or Yale or Berkeley? Half the people in the room are going, "How fucking smart is that guy that he works HERE with US and went to John Fucking Marshall? He must have secret voodoo legal powers." The other half are admiring his initiative for having gone to night school and kicked enough ass and worked hard enough to land at a big-name firm. (A small percentage of people in the room are trying to figure out who he knows that he got such a good job and how it isn't fair; this is typically the same small percentage who only got their job based on who they know, so that's insecurity talking.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:00 AM on May 11, 2011 [14 favorites]

If you live and work near where you went to school, likely so do a bunch of other alumni and you'll get some benefits from that. If you now live a long way away then people probably aren't judging your school based on what they know of it, it's just one among many schools they've never heard of. You are free to then think of it as a 'hidden gem'.

It doesn't matter so much where you go. After a few years it's all about your previous work not school. My boss went to a second-rate university (pre-1992 poly). Hasn't affected her career either way.
posted by plonkee at 5:09 AM on May 11, 2011

When I tell people where I went to school, they assume I am a fun-hating, obscenely rich snob and immediately try to figure out how I got by testing my intelligence. So I tend to vaguely describe my school as "back East". I once some time working on a farm in Eastern Europe with two other college-aged girls. It took three days before one of us asked insistently enough and we realized that between the three of us we represented Harvard, Yale, and Cambridge.

Honestly I think some people respond negatively to any alma mater that is not their own. The best thing to do is to let people get to know you before you mention your school's name. The second-best thing is to scream confidence and act surprised/snotty that they haven't heard of your school.
posted by acidic at 5:10 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

I went to George Washington University in DC. A lot of my family and friends have degrees from Ivy League schools. On the rare instances where I've gotten static from people about where I went to college, I tell them to stuff it.

On the flip side, other people, who did not go to Ivy League schools, or whose families didn't remark to me, earnestly, about how great GWU is (perhaps they're confusing it with Georgetown).

In any event, bottom line is that but for a few industries the place from which you got your degree matters less than what you do after you have been graduated.
posted by dfriedman at 5:39 AM on May 11, 2011

There are fields where it matters a lot and (more) fields where it doesn't matter at all. I'm actually in a field where it matters, CV wise, and where being in a room full of Harvard/Oxbridge/Berkeley grads happens frequently, but it's actually pretty rare that we talk about our undergraduate years socially. Adults who constantly work into conversation that they went to Yale are just as insecure as you, only worse: they're trying to convince themselves and others that their accomplishments since college don't matter because of the name on the diploma.
posted by oinopaponton at 5:44 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

I went to a very average university where I had the most fantastic undergrad experience possible. Its name doesn't carry much weight and my grades were unspectacular. I even took five years to finish my BA. My career is one that is almost impossible to get into and plenty of my colleagues went to more elite schools than I did. My boss is a Rhodes Scholar. Some people wear it on their sleeves and make a point of working it into conversation all the time. And I really couldn't care less. My attitude is, "Yeah, but we both wound up in the same spot so how did your degree give you a leg-up over me?"

If you have the career you want, why does it matter?
posted by fso at 5:45 AM on May 11, 2011

How old are you? When you get older, your social standing in a meritocratic has more to do with being an interesting person and doing interesting work than where you went to undergrad. I know this fascinating, charismatic social scientist who runs a university program/institute, has traveled all over the world, and does interesting stuff. He's a great guy-- he went to undergrad at an infamous fundamentalist university. After we laugh off this story and my questions about what it was "really like" there, we continue on talking about our work and life.

What happens is that you have enough accomplishments under your belt later in life that your sense of personal pride comes from those things, and you stop being unhappy that you don't have a sense of personal pride over where you went to college, since you have so much else to lean on.

the only pedigree schools that matter are ones that matter on the graduate level on up. So going to a second-tier law school, or getting your MBA from an online graduate course might be great for experience, but can be a roadblock when trying to be hired.

Generally this is only true for MBAs and law school. Med school pedigree doesn't matter, and it seems like "everyone" has a master's degree from a "big name" school without a lot of corresponding benefit, which is no surprise since schools make a lot of money off them. Prestige of Ph.D. pedigrees tend to be very field-specific-- there are some places that have excellent reputations for certain graduate programs that I'd actively discourage someone from applying to as an undergrad.
posted by deanc at 5:54 AM on May 11, 2011

I'm embarrassed by my choice of undergraduate institution, embarrassed by the school and the dumb way I ended up there. I'm nearly 20 years out and still get asked where I went to college, even though no-one really cares. I'll repeat that no-one really cares.

You've identified in your question that the problem is not really your school, that you had good reasons for choosing it, that you had a good experience there, and that while you may regret not making a different choice (which is a very different regret than regretting choosing an option), life is like that. Really, you're half-way to getting over being self-conscious about it because you recognize already that there's no reason to feel bad about it and people really don't care much. People who do care probably fall into a couple broad categories: people looking to be impressed; people looking to confirm that folks at Prestige Schools are nothing special; and people looking for something in common to talk about. None of those things are about you, except as far as the third one is about connecting with you. You provide a connection some other way, if you want.

So the answer to your question: How do I get rid of this chip on my shoulder is "you just do." I stopped caring so much about my dumb college and my idiotic path there by answering the question "So where did you go to college?" with "oh, a tiny private school in Texas." and then completely deflecting. People looking to be impressed will have to find some other reason to be impressed by me. People looking to confirm that Ivy League means nothing will have to look elsewhere. People who are making small talk or are honestly looking to connect can follow the thread of my deflect.
posted by crush-onastick at 5:54 AM on May 11, 2011

This may seem flippant and not helpful, but I promise it is the truth: you don't want to work anywhere that cares about things like that. Organizations that care about pedigrees like that are going to be miserable places to work, because their culture is not one of merit, but of pedigree and social one-ups-manship and bullshit.

Getting the degree and retaining the skills is the important thing. Employers who don't recognize this as the foremost qualification will suck.

(As long as the college is accredited.)
posted by gjc at 5:55 AM on May 11, 2011

When you're an office manager at Dunder Mifflin or a partner at Skadden or a neurosurgeon anywhere, no one cares where your undergrad degree is from - and no one ever will again, save as a point of curiosity along the lines of "OMG, I went to WUSTL too!"

If you go to grad school, this process kicks in the moment you start. What's important is your JD from Berkeley, or your PhD from Cornell, or....

Also, stop apologizing to people for where you went!
posted by J. Wilson at 5:55 AM on May 11, 2011

The name of an undergraduate school means diddly as long as you had good professors who taught you above and beyond that which will make you marketable for a career or for a good grad school. IMHO, going to an Ivy League school for undergraduate work and being taught by TA's is something truly to be embarrassed about. Even the best name schools aren't good for every field of undergrad study.
posted by JJ86 at 5:56 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the amount of response. Thanks guys; your advice has been really incredible and I think I'm beginning to see a general consensus.

It's what you do, not where you went. And I suppose it's like most of you say, this realization comes with spending a few (more than 1) years in the real world.

Maybe I should have given a little more detail about who I am. At the moment I'm living abroad in Jordan working for an offshore technology firm so I can take Arabic and get the "oh so desirable" business skills sought after by international development organizations. I initially came to Amman for an internship with a UN Iraq field office in the Natural Sciences (I'm an environmentalist).

If anyone has ever had experience with UN employees, a lot of them ask where you went to school. Especially if you're from the United States. I've hung around with some Harvards, Berkeleys, Oxfords and feel generally intimidated by their credentials (though not their personalities).

I suppose at the end of the day, a lot of it comes from my own insecurities. That school = intelligence. Damn, I need to live a little.
posted by northxnorthwest at 6:19 AM on May 11, 2011 [2 favorites]

Well, if you're living and working in Jordan, it's likely that (1) the only schools your co-workers have heard of (assuming they're not American) are the big-name schools like Harvard, etc. and (2) the culture in which you work is less meritocratic than that which we respondents assumed you were operating in. Many countries outside the United States have a much more rigid sense of the importance of where you went to school for college.
posted by dfriedman at 6:24 AM on May 11, 2011

I've been on both sides of this coin - I went to a school that is very well-respected within its region and not very well-known outside of that region. So when I tell people in [school region] where I went to school, they are all impressed, and when I tell people in [anywhere else in the world] they are like, "um?"

Both reactions are kind of annoying. And I still (10+ years later) feel defensive when people don't recognize my awesome school (which, since I work and live outside of [school region] happens a lot!). Live a little - get more jobs, meet more people (professionally and socially) who attended all sorts of different schools, and you'll realize that what you do for the next 40 years of your life is going to be a lot more important than what you did during four years of college.
posted by mskyle at 6:43 AM on May 11, 2011

I went to a Russell Group university. However, I didn't go to Oxbridge, and there are those who think these are the only two schools that count - despite the similar course offered by Cambridge being totally unsuitable for my academic interests. (Echoing what JJ86 said.) I attended interview just to see, was asked what my father did and where he worked (??) and then quizzed on what, for my field, was an incredibly outdated piece of research, during which the professor was really quite patronising. If I'd gone to do law or history, or wanted to study literature from the Victorian era back, it would have been an excellent place, but not so for me - and the environment, even less. Mind you, I thought 'where do I actually want to LIVE for three years?' and worked from there.

My schoolfriend is at Cambridge. He absolutely hated it - no issue with the quality of his tutorials, or the resources available, but he can't find kindred spirits there and finds it lonely. Academic life is about more than grades.

My SO went to a former polytechnic, which are sometimes derided as being less academic. He is one of the cleverest people I know.

My friend didn't finish her degree. She's in a good job, and bright and funny and all-round awesome, and employers are lucky to have her.

In conclusion: the people that care don't understand that people make different choices for different reasons. And with (I think) elite schools costing a ton of money to attend in the US, it shows a lack of understanding on circumstances, too.
posted by mippy at 6:52 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

As crush-onastick mentioned: people looking for something in common to talk about. Yeah, the main reason I find people casually asking where one went to college/university is for this reason. "I visited there once." "My friend went there and said they have a good [whatever] program."

If you feel the need to say *something* about your undergrad institution when you mention it, you might say, "they have a really good [my field] program." Not an apology, but something to offer the other person, a handle for them to grasp, to make it easier to continue the conversation.
posted by brainwane at 7:19 AM on May 11, 2011

The further away in time you get from school, the less important it becomes.
Let your work NOW speak for itself, be confident in your abilities, and realize they have nothing to do with where you went to school and everything to do with YOU.
posted by TravellingDen at 7:38 AM on May 11, 2011

My partner, who also doesn't have a college degree, recently went back to school. She's been taking a class here and there, but is realizing that she's going to have to choose between getting her degree at a ripe old age, or her the program she's started to bring new experiences to low-income families. We've batted back and forth the pros and cons, and then she realized: in the list of things she might have conversations about, or that might lead to interesting work, the challenges and successes of her side project are far more interesting than "I went back to school and got my degree..."

Similarly, I quit (a place you never heard of) college because it seemed like a lousy way to learn, and I could no longer keep a straight face in many classes. Decades later, my resume is pretty impressive. Yeah, it might have been helpful to have the networking opportunities that going to MIT might have given me, but as everyone else in this thread has mentioned, get a few accomplishments under your belt and nobody cares where you went to school. And for my resume, which includes products and projects that have touched your life, the opener I use is not "I have credits in blockbuster movies" or "I designed part of that product you use that you love", but "I was a professional whitewater guide".

Go out and actually do something, be interested and passionate about something. Pretty much anybody can get a degree, and in the grand scheme of things checking the right boxes to pass the judgement of this admissions office or that one isn't really "something".
posted by straw at 7:41 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

My wife went to an Ivy League school, and for the first, oh, 10 years of marriage I'd hear the same complaint from her over and over again -- that she went to an Ivy League school and she wasn't a "success" like everyone else in the alumni magazine. So it was almost a white man's burden going on there. Eventually she worked out it didn't matter.

The best programmer I ever worked with graduated not from MIT or CalTech but one of those Pennsylvania state system schools. End of the day, Oxbridge or Ivy League can help you move forward, but if you're smart you will shine, and if you perform you'll be treasured.

I went to the University of Colorado. And no one gave a rip at work until CU joined the Pac 12. I rise and fall on my own merit, and my degree, in the end, has the same value as my wife's though hers, admittedly, is in Latin and on slightly more ivory paper.
posted by dw at 7:56 AM on May 11, 2011

"If anyone has ever had experience with UN employees, a lot of them ask where you went to school. Especially if you're from the United States."

Those are just the ones they've heard of, it's nothing personal.

Given that the public state university system is one of the greatest achievements of American democracy, when you say, "I went to State U," and people say, "Where's that?" or "I've never heard of that?" you might have a little bit about how it was founded as a land-grant university with the intention of making higher education available to ALL citizens of State who wanted an education and were smart enough and hard-working enough to do the work, and that moreover its agricultural research was geared towards improving farming in the state and it was this marriage of scholarship and public-mindedness that enabled the U.S. to become the breadbasket to the world. Or about how Jefferson founded the University of Virginia and supported public universities as necessary to a free and democratic populace. Or about UW-Madison and the discovery of warfarin and the farmer with his dead cow. It's a unique history, and it's something many other countries have emulated pieces of because it's a marvelous model.

There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of in having come out of the state system -- you are participating in one of the grandest and greatest experiments in democracy, research, and education in the history of mankind. And, frankly, one of the most successful. Be proud of that, dude. Any country can come up with a system of elite universities for the children of the wealthy. For as much as people like to deride the U.S. for its lack of interest in education, and as much as educational funding in the U.S. is suffering fright now, it takes a really special interest in and reverence for the power of education to come up with a state university system meant to serve ALL students with ability and provide the fruits of knowledge to ALL citizens in the state (through libraries, county agricultural extensions, etc).
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:06 AM on May 11, 2011 [5 favorites]

I'm in a bit of the same boat as you. I went to a perfectly good school that is not nationally known.

Aside from name recognition, there's really no difference between going to Big State U vs. going to Obscure College. I got at least as good an education at my not particularly well-known school than my siblings who went to Big State Party School did. I also had more opportunities during college and graduated into a much better job market thanks to the size of the city and importance of the region my school is located in. Literally the only downside is that if I leave the New York area, people might not have heard of my school. So what? That's why google was invented.

Of course, Ivy League snobs gonna hate. There is nothing you can do about such people, and honestly they do not matter in your life.
posted by Sara C. at 9:17 AM on May 11, 2011

I used to get a little peeved at the "Where did you go to school" question too (I had to turn down a fancy-pants acceptance when a family health/financial crisis made a state school the wiser/only choice).

Funny though, recently, someone asked me where I went to school and I thought "huh, this again," and when I told her the name of -- to my mind -- not-impressive school she said, "Oh, wow, that was my first choice. I didn't get in. Was it great?"
posted by thinkpiece at 9:20 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

I went to the University of Chicago, so I should hold up pretty well in the where-did-you-go-to-school conversations that I hate. First of all, I know plenty of people who went to "lesser" schools who are doing more right now than I am (unemployed--heyo!). And while I LOVED the unique, nerdy college experience that I had, I know it's not for everyone.

My boyfriend is in finance, so has a lot of top-tier friends and coworkers. I meet them at parties and things, and a lot of these guys still (STILL! two, three, four years out of college) open conversations with "where did you go to school?" Fuck you, guy. Fuck you. I happen to have a really good answer to that one, but what if I didn't? Would you not want to talk to me any more? And plus, I know you're just asking me so you have a chance to drop the fact that you went to Penn into the conversation completely unprovoked. (For some reason, this situation has happened more with people from Penn than anywhere else, now that I think about it. Definitely more so than, say, MIT.)

What usually happens in these situations is that I get pissed, make up an excuse for leaving without answering the question, and go stalk off into a corner, muttering about all the Douchey McDouchersons and wondering how soon we can leave.

What's even funnier is that around a lot of these types, I'm looked down on for going to the UofC because it's a liberal arts school where everything is theoretical. We don't have an engineering department, so I guess that makes us inferior? Fuck you, I read Adam Smith and Marx. Gahhhh!

Anyway, all ranting aside, some people are going to judge you no matter what you say. If it taught you something valuable, be proud of your education! It doesn't matter where you got it. (And keep in mind that people asking you where you went to school usually aren't asking because they care where you went to school. They're asking because they want a chance to tell you where they went to school. (Sadly, for some of these folks, the biggest and best accomplishment in their entire lives will be that they went to a Big Name school.)
posted by phunniemee at 10:38 AM on May 11, 2011 [3 favorites]

Just change people's perceptions. "I went to FU and it was really amazing - I absolutely loved it." Your enthusiasm will have people wondering (rightfully) if they had the wrong impression.
posted by infinityjinx at 10:57 AM on May 11, 2011 [2 favorites]

I graduated from a great school (Mizzou, fuck yeah!) but spent my first 2 years at community college you never heard of. At No Name Community College I had amazing, awesome, engaged professors. I'm eternally grateful for those 2 years.

Anyone who judges you on your school (including you) really needs to get out more.
posted by cyndigo at 11:05 AM on May 11, 2011

I find it a lot more interesting when someone from an obscure school is doing really interesting things. I am more in awe of the sheer fortitude and pluck of someone who comes from nowhere to make a name for themselves, than I am impressed by someone who got great connections at a big-name school and becomes part of some self-congratulatory circle jerk of people who attended prestigious schools.

Name totally picked at random -- James Wolcott, a media critic for Vanity Fair, has two years of college at Maryland's Frostburg State College. You know he didn't benefit from any resume boost from the strength of his alma mater. Do you know how many Ivy Leaguers would kill to be a prominent media critic?

It is possible to overcome any possible objection to your perceived lack of educational pedigree by becoming so interesting and accomplished that it simply doesn't matter. Rather than focusing on what you lack in terms of education, focus on doing things that matter to you and becoming excellent. Your achievements can reduce your lack of educational pedigree to a triviality.
posted by jayder at 11:08 AM on May 11, 2011

One more thing:
My father had a coworker who'd graduated from West Point. He (the coworker) always said that it got him through the door but after that the work was all the same. He believed so much that it didn't matter that he made it a point to send his kids to state school unless they had hefty scholarships elsewhere. Both state and private school kids did very well for themselves.
(Don't know if you agree with the guy, but I still wanted to share)
posted by Neekee at 11:22 AM on May 11, 2011

Also worth noting: Princeton University: Elite Colleges Not Necessarily Best Ticket to High Earnings

Says Krueger, Bendheim Professor of Economics and Public Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson School of Princeton University: "It appears that student ambition, as reflected in the quality of the school to which he or she applies, is a better predictor of earning success than what college they ultimately choose or which college chooses them." The researchers refer to this phenomena as the "Steven Spielberg Effect"; the filmmaker, who was rejected by both USC and UCLA film schools, ended up attending a less prestigious program but went on to achieve tremendous success.
Or: Now that you've gotten your silly little ticket punched, go do something with your life. In 5 years, anyone still talking about where they graduated from college has peaked and is going downhill far too young to be doing that.

posted by straw at 11:29 AM on May 11, 2011

I think asking someone "where did you go to school?" and judging their worth based on that answer, is morally pretty equivalent to asking someone "who are you wearing?" and basing your judgment of them on their answer.
posted by jayder at 11:31 AM on May 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

Classic "Those who matter don't care and those who care don't matter" situation.
posted by callmejay at 11:39 AM on May 11, 2011 [2 favorites]

You know, I didn't even know U of Chicago was considered a top school until I read a book on snobbery in the US this week, and if someone told me over here that they'd been there then I would have just said 'Oh.' I'd be impressed by Bryn Mawr, but not because I know anything about it, because I know Katherine Hepburn went there which is kinda cool. Shows you how meaningless it is, really.

A while ago an aquaintance who grew up in the same area as me asked which secondary school I attended. I somehow got the impression that they were asking not to see if we knew the same people but to put a feeler on what social class I was. I totally understand phunnimee's reaction here.
posted by mippy at 3:01 PM on May 11, 2011

Options:
"I majored in Demanding Major at Big State"
"I went to a little school in Connecticut called Small Liberal Arts College"
"Oh nowhere special, just Big State"
"2nd tier school. That place was a joke, I shouldn't have taken that scholarship"
[With a smile] "I can barely remember, it was somewhere in Florida"
posted by blargerz at 5:17 PM on May 11, 2011

As a student in a great graduate program (one where a lot of people go into the UN, incidentally), I can say that the students here come from all different types of schools - Oxford, Ivy Leagues, state schools of all calibers, liberal arts colleges ranging from the almost-Ivy to "where?", foreign universities I've never heard of and would have no idea how to rank...and there's one girl I've known for months who seems totally normal, and I just discovered through Facebook that she went to some weird evangelical Bible college I'd never heard of. So, I definitely nth all the above points that if you go to grad school, where you went to undergrad will matter a lot less.

That said, there will likely always be people who aren't familiar with your school, especially people outside of your field. Despite my program being a top one within its discipline, I had never heard of it (I'd heard of the university it's at, but had no idea about this program and never would have guessed that it's such a big deal) until a year or so before I applied. People within the same field are impressed when I tell them where I go; anyone outside of my field generally has no idea what I'm talking about. My undergrad degree is from a small public university that is highly ranked but not really on the radar of many people from other parts of the country. I transferred there from an even smaller liberal arts college that has prestige among people who are in the know about liberal arts colleges, but people outside of those circles don't know it and would have been more impressed with _______ State University, because at least they would have heard of that. And I'm totally guilty of this sort of thing too - I found out where an old friend was going to grad school and thought to myself, "Psssh, XYZ University??? That is so random and lame," only to look it up and discover that while it's a middling school for undergrads, the graduate program he's attending there is #1 in the nation in that field - whoops!

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with all this, but basically, a) where you went to college doesn't really matter b) some people won't be familiar with your school and that's ok c) grad school matters more than undergrad but even then some people won't be familiar with your school, and that's ok d) if people actually care about this sort of thing, fuck 'em.

I agree with infinityjinx that you (and your school's reputation!) will be well-served by showing enthusiasm for and a good attitude about your school. People who remain vocally embarrassed/resentful/whatever for years about where they went to school are really unattractive - infinitely more so than someone who just went to a meh school.
posted by naoko at 8:18 AM on May 12, 2011

If I ask someone where they went to college and they name a place I haven't heard of and I give them a funny look, it's not because I think any less of them -- it's because I was reaching for something to carry on the conversation and came up empty-handed! Of course that isn't the case with everyone who looks at you askance, but maybe you'd feel more at ease choosing to assume that that's the problem and carrying on to share an interesting fact or anecdote about your school?
posted by ecsh at 8:49 AM on May 13, 2011