I'm going to get shocked either way, so why bother moving?
May 1, 2011 9:25 AM   Subscribe

How does one overcome learned helplessness?

I'll start at the beginning: I've always struggled socially. Please understand that this is not a matter of shyness or low self-esteem: it's more like everyone else is dancing a tango, and I'm dancing a waltz. It's very hard for me to relate to people. Finding people I can call friends has been very difficult; finding girlfriends has been damn near impossible. (If you're familiar with Myers-Briggs, I'm an INTJ.) As a result, I've spent much of my life depressed.

I'm doing okay these days—I have my ups and downs, but compared to the dark times I've been through in the past, my temperament has been pretty even for a while. Complacent, even. But here's what concerns me: I think I've achieved this stability largely by giving up.

I used to have some fight in me. In fact, I used to struggle mightily—I had a will that could move mountains. But over the years, I've gradually been worn down. After innumerable frustrations and defeats, I finally learned that lowering my expectations is one way to avoid being disappointed.

And that's what I've done. Over the years, I've gradually lowered my expectations so far that I don't really expect anything out of life any more.

I don't expect that I'll ever find friends that I can really talk to about anything personal or important. I don't expect that my romantic life will ever consist of anything more than stumbling into a brief and ill-fated tryst every few years. I don't expect that I'll ever have a job that will let me feel good about my work or live up to my potential. I don't expect that I'll ever feel a part of anything meaningful, or find a way to engage with the rest of humanity. I feel like I've tried everything I know to achieve these things, and been slapped to the ground every time. At some point, I just stopped crawling back up.

My circle of friends has dwindled steadily, until I have only a few left, hanging by threads—and I can't bring myself to care too much. I never go out any more; I very rarely look forward to anything. I have few goals or ambitions. I just get up, and go through each day, because I have nothing better to do. I go to work, and I sit around at home. I'm basically just twiddling my thumbs while I wait to die.

If this sounds completely bleak and miserable—well, it's not a happy existence, but…

Do I want friends? A girlfriend? Meaningful things to look forward to? To feel connected to the people around me? Sure I do—in the same way that I want a starship and a trillion dollars. It'd be great to have those things, but they seem like such silly and unrealistic desires that I can't get too upset that I don't have them. They just aren't within the realm of possibility, so why waste energy worrying about it? (Or, at least, so goes my usual thinking.)

Yeah, I could make an effort to meet people and cultivate fulfilling relationships. And I could make an effort to invent warp drive and become a trillionaire. The two seem about equally likely to be successful.

I'd like to believe that there is something I can do—that I really could have some of those things. I don't believe it, but I'd like to. If I believed such an effort could possibly result in anything but disappointment and frustration, maybe I could work up the will to make the effort. In fact, believing it seems like the only way that'll happen.

I know, on some level, that "not trying" is a defense mechanism that protects me from failure—but also guarantees that I'll never succeed.

So, that's my question: how do I unlearn this learned helplessness? It feels like I've already tried everything, and nothing has worked—how do I believe that it's still worth trying? How do I convince myself to risk disappointment when a big part of me is convinced that bitter disappointment is the only possible outcome?
posted by anonymous to Religion & Philosophy (23 answers total) 42 users marked this as a favorite
 
You say you've tried everything but you don't say that you've seen a psychiatrist or had antidepressants or psychotherapy.

You are clinically depressed. If you haven't you really need to see a psychiatrist. Not just refer yourself to a random therapist but actually be seen and assessed and have them supervise treatment. I'm afraid it is very unlikely that any form of "self-help" is going to get you anywhere.

(IAAD but not a psychiatrist)
posted by inbetweener at 9:34 AM on May 1, 2011


It sounds to me like you need to get help for your depression before you try to tackle anything else.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 9:35 AM on May 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


Anonymous, this is depression plain and simple. PLEASE do not accept this as status quo. PLEASE get help for this.


It's worth it. I have been where you are and I have recovered. Please don't give up!
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:43 AM on May 1, 2011 [3 favorites]


Totally agree with St. Alia. I struggle with this still (intj too for what it's worth). At some point I realized that I just gotta be me and if people don't like it, well I am no worse off. But, it turns out some people DO like it. But, yea. It took 10 years in this city before I met them.

I agree with the others who suggest therapy as a first step.
posted by cabingirl at 10:00 AM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


and I can't bring myself to care too much. I never go out any more; I very rarely look forward to anything. I have few goals or ambitions. I just get up, and go through each day, because I have nothing better to do.

These are classic signs of depression.

If I believed such an effort could possibly result in anything but disappointment and frustration,

So is this. One of the most insidious things about depression is that it convinces you that not only do you not enjoy things, but it's not even worth the effort to try.

Get treatment. Talk therapy plus meds seems to work best for most people; some people do fine on just one or the other, but I'd say it's better to throw everything you've got at it from the start and then ease off (to just meds or just therapy) when things begin to look up. Good luck - it's not easy, but it is doable. You don't have to feel this way for the rest of your life.
posted by rtha at 10:16 AM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


IANAD, but this sounds like depression to me.
posted by J. Wilson at 10:46 AM on May 1, 2011


I could have written this question a couple years ago, after a big romantic failure. My answer was to go into therapy, and try to force myself to get out more. Most of the people I've met are unremarkable, but a couple have been worth getting to know. I know how you feel. I'm an INTJ myself, and I do spend a lot of time sitting around at home compared to other people, but that's just me. I'll never be a social butterfly. I wouldn't want to be. It's not who I am, but I'm still trying to relate to people. I would recommend seeking therapy, and maybe medication for anxiety, because I know that's helped me. It certainly hasn't been a magic bullet, as I still struggle with the same basic question that you're struggling with, but it's better than not trying at all.
posted by dortmunder at 10:50 AM on May 1, 2011


Yeah, I could make an effort to meet people and cultivate fulfilling relationships. And I could make an effort to invent warp drive and become a trillionaire.

Sounds familiar. You're not the only one to have walked down this tunnel.

You've named the problem: learned helplessness. You came here to learn the way out and there is one and it's super easy: Self-efficacy.

I remember creating a lot of catch-22s for myself before I started working on my self-efficacy. "I'll never meet a girl because girls like confident guys -> I'll never be confident with girls because I have no experience -> I have no experience because I'll never meet a girl -> ..." I can tell you, from my own life, that this kind of circular reasoning is total bullshit.

Self-efficacy is the idea that you don't start with grandiose plans of inventing warp drive and making a trillion dollars. You start with what is super easy and build up incremental "mastery experiences." What "super easy" means will vary from person to person depending on where you are on your journey out of the tunnel.

Some ideas for super easy starts:
  • Go out, everyday, to somewhere where there are people and read a book.
  • If you have insurance, call your nurse advice line and ask for help for depression. If you're in college, go to the health center. If you don't have insurance and you live in a city with 211, call 211. Otherwise, post another Ask Me next week asking for free or sliding scale counseling resources in your location.
  • Take a non-credit course that involves structured socializing, such as ballroom dance.
  • Volunteer at several places until you find a place you click with, and then start scheduled volunteering there at least once a week. (Go to serve.gov, volunteermatch.org, or your local Hands On affiliate to get started.)
  • Join an activist or advocacy group that works to improve the world in an area that matters to you.
  • Use Meetup.com to find a group that does something active that you enjoy: bowling? jogging? bicycling? book club? movie club?
The secret is that, once you do the super easy thing a few times, give yourself credit because what you just did was actually an important first step. Now you can try doing something that's half-a-notch more difficult than the super easy thing.
  • Tell someone at your everyday reading spot that you like their style. Smile kindly. Don't feel pressured to start a conversation if it's not natural the first time. (Remember, half-a-notch.)
  • Start regularly attending counseling. (This is maybe more than half-a-notch. It can seem scary at first, but it's worth it.)
  • Tell someone at your class that you think they're skilled.
  • Ask other volunteers about their day. Start a conversation while you're working.
  • Attend a protest.
  • Invite the people from meetup to have the next meetup or post-meetup coffee or drinks at your house.
If your half-a-notch escalation doesn't get the results that you thought it would, be proud that you had the courage to try anyway and realize that you have more practice for trying again later. When the half-a-notch tasks get easy, try other things that used to seem hard to do. Another half-a-notch:
  • Is there someone who's always at your reading spot at the same time you are? Ask them about themselves. "Hi, I see you here all the time. I'm OP... Do you come here after work or school? ... What are you studying?
  • Be determined to tell your counselor about things that you normally wouldn't talk about outside of counseling.
  • Ask someone in your class for help studying (Regardless of whether or not you need the help.) If they're busy, say no problem. Ask someone else the next time.
  • See if the other volunteers want to go out for coffee or drinks as a group after they're done volunteering.
  • Talk to others in your advocacy or activist group about any roles or leadership that is needed right now.
  • Ask someone from the meetup group if they want to hang out, get a meal and discuss something you have in common.
Don't think too hard about the examples I gave for second and third level mastery experiences, though, just think to come back to this later. Right now go do something to get started, no matter how simple. Maybe it's just scouting out the location of your health center or the park you're going to start reading in.

Once you pick up this momentum, and it's all about momentum (you're not starting from nothing. You have momentum right now to build on), you will still have ups and downs -- lucky breaks and discouragements. My last seemingly insurmountable funk was over a breakup, but I quickly remembered that I had once been a late bloomer unable to even talk to women, let alone experience mutually loving feelings and friendship with someone. I'm still climbing that mountain and the view keeps spreading out beneath me. I used the self-efficacy that I built up when I started learning to date and used it to build upon for this stage in my life.
posted by Skwirl at 11:18 AM on May 1, 2011 [23 favorites]


There IS a part of you that is not helpless or hopeless, or you would not, could not, have asked this question. This is irrefutable evidence that your strong will is, indeed, still there. If you do everything you can to nurture it, it will grow.
posted by Corvid at 11:20 AM on May 1, 2011 [3 favorites]


Skwirl makes a good point about taking simple steps and building on them.

For some people it's therapy, or writing, or whatever. For me it is taking a walk every morning, no matter the weather.

I used to walk listening to podcasts and audio books about self-improvement and philosophy. New age feel good hippy dippy stuff like Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. It didn't really matter, as long as the message was positive. Now I walk with my husband and we talk about the same stuff. It's a really important thing that we do every day to stay on track in our lives.

In the end, this did more for me than therapy, or meds, or giving up.

YMMV.
posted by jbenben at 12:03 PM on May 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


Who is to say resignation isn't a valid reaction to your circumstances?

They just aren't within the realm of possibility, so why waste energy worrying about it?

People attain the things you talk about all the time. As a MeFi commenter chances are you're in a better position than most to do the same (you're likely better educated, wealthier, etc). If the effort and risk involved seem too much for you, let it slide. But you'll probably only make things more unpleasant for yourself if you continually lament what you're giving up. That isn't really giving up at all, is it? It's self-pity. Which, who knows, may be totally called for in your situation.

What people say here, regardless of the form it takes ("your will is still there!", "you're depressed, it can be overcome!"), will be an exhortation. We're all going to post: Get up buddy, you can do it! variously gussied up.

Many commenters will focus on depression, on the disease metaphor, and that might be useful way to think about it if you want to, you know, try again. Do you?
posted by elektrotechnicus at 12:24 PM on May 1, 2011


It sounds like you've gradually slid into this and will need to make small changes in your life to climb out of the hole you've been digging yourself into. 

If it helps I've tried taken that test a few times and come out as ISTJ, INTJ, and INFJ. I guess I'm borderline on the N/S T/F bit. 

I've felt similarly myself and am in the process of trying to climb out. 

I'm seeing a DBT therapist (which seems to me a combination of CBT skills with more assistance for dealing with emotion), who also does exposure therapy for anxiety. I'm just learning this so my understanding is rather basic. 

Progress has been frustratingly slow. I feel stupid taking little tiny steps to make progress, when it seems like "normal" people can do so much more. But looking back I can see those steps adding up. 

My therapist also forces me to think about the things I've accomplished, and even if I've done one out of three things, to just focus on the ONE thing I did and be proud of it. 

Interestingly when I focus on the things I have accomplished, I tend to feel better and accomplish more the next day. But when I focus on all the things I didn't do, I tend to feel overwhelmed and give up. 

My therapist gave me a book to read called "Don't shoot the dog". I've read some of it. There's a story about a guy learning to play raquetball who found his game rapidly improved when he focussed on what he did right and ignored his mistakes. 

I still find that a therapist helps me be "accountable" and keeps me on track. A self help book isn't going to get me far itself. 

  
posted by mbird at 12:27 PM on May 1, 2011


Stop digging! This is something that's been hard for me to learn, but when I feel hopeless, or that the effort is more than the return, that nothing's going to work out...focusing on these things is just digging me into a hole of further hopelessness.

Don't make the problem too big, so that it's too much work to begin, Skwirl's "half a notch" idea is perfect.

And if you try, and something doesn't immediately work out, don't take this as a reason you were "right" and that everything really IS hopeless. LOTS of things don't work out as easy for other people as it seems they do, and this kind of talking yourself out of it before it happens is NOT more helpful than trying something.

IANAD, (and therapy didn't help me...but I've seen it help others, so I'm with that group of suggestions as well)
posted by nile_red at 1:53 PM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


I don't know how helpful this is, but:

"I've always struggled socially. Please understand that this is not a matter of shyness or low self-esteem: it's more like everyone else is dancing a tango, and I'm dancing a waltz. It's very hard for me to relate to people."

I call that, "The normal condition of 99% of humanity, 99% of the time." You're not alone in this. MOST of us feel, at least some of the time, like everyone else hears a steady drumbeat and we're hearing a crazy bongo guy. If you read biographies or autobiographies, you'll see that very famous people (even very sociable famous people!) feel like this. If you talk to people you'll find that the most conventional and sociable people you know feel like this. It just IS. Relating to others is hard. Human beings are hard.

When I keep that in mind, it makes it a lot easier for me to take the first step in reaching out to other people, socially, because it almost always turns out they were feeling too awkward to take the first step to reach out to me and are grateful I took the first step. In fact, thinking, Here's something I can do for someone else (make the first move), sometimes makes it a lot easier to make that first move. Because suddenly I'm other-focused instead of me-focused, which makes me a lot less self-conscious and awkward.

And I agree with the "get checked for depression" people above. I think it would help you a lot.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:43 PM on May 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


Hi there, I sometimes identify as an INTJ as well. I'm very practiced in the depression side of things, and also being a permanent stranger in a strange land. I've done the drugs (and boy, they can really get you out of a hole), and the therapy (I like CBT and ACT) and now I'm a middle aged single woman with no social life.

I agree with everyone else, get treatment for the depression. But when you have, or while you have, here's some things to consider:

If you kill yourself (and you're an atheist like me), you have nothing to look forward to. There is now zero chance of having any fun ever again.

Optimists (while being silly engaging people) actually live longer and are happy. Practice learning optimism. Yes, you could think about the worse thing that could happen, but it probably won't, unless it's a million to one chance, in which case you're a Pratchett fan.

You don't have to give in to how you feel. (That's a lot of what ACT is about). You can say, Self, okay, your default position is morose, and that's okay. Today we are going out to enjoy the crazy reality that sunshine (rain, hail, snow) is, and keep our mind open for experiences. We are not going looking for any friends (but if someone talks to us, that's a bonus) and we are certainly not looking to pick up (because oh the crushing disappointment if we can't find someone who JUST happens to be looking for someone like us right in that moment).

What other people think or feel about you is none of your business. Sure, you may be Weirdy McFreakazoid, but hey, if it's not hurting anyone, go right ahead. We need more diversity. If someone has a problem with that, it is seriously their problem. What person in their right mind gets off on saying/thinking how homogenously we should all behave? That's crazy talk. What other people think and feel about you is only your business if a. they choose to share it with you (because you cannot mindread, much as you might think you can) and b. you choose to act on it (because you do not have to do everything someone tells you, or change yourself etc).

I think I've identified my tango/waltz situation to being born lower class and intelligent. (I could be wrong but it's my default excuse this week). It means a lot of the social cues and behaviours: don't scratch your arse in public didn't get imbedded BUT I have an intellect and interests that's not apparent in conversation with others of my class. I also am reluctant to spend many hours learning this tango. It seems superficial and very not me; but the repercussion of that is, hey, look, Weirdy McFreakazoid, from all. Too bad.

Don't give up. I'm not saying hope for Ms/Mr Wright to build you your aeroplane. You never know what other people are going to do. Look for the things/experiences in your life that are rewarding and go and do them. Alone. I just went to a music festival in a hippy town by myself and (mostly) had a fantastic time.
posted by b33j at 2:56 PM on May 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


There's a lot of lonely girls out there just waiting for some guy to ask them out and despairing that one ever will. Try chatting over the internet, a spot of internet dating. Try a random act of kindness every day. Even if it doesn't make you happier (though it will), it'll make someone else happier anyway. You're a long time old, and a very long time dead, you might as well make the best of things. One moment of positive action is worth a week of maudlin introspection. Ask a girl to have a cup of coffee with you every day until one says yes. If you want to get somewhere then make the first move. Even if it doesn't work out, you'll start becoming 'make the first move guy'.
posted by joannemullen at 3:11 PM on May 1, 2011


In my opinion, stop struggling socially, forget normal and keep waltzing. You may not find many dance partners. So what?

In my experience, wanting to fit in and putting that above my own instincts was a huge distraction from attaining any measure of self-fulfillment. I couldn't see that for a long time, because I thought that fitting in would be self-fulfillment. But trying to make meaningful social connections always felt very artificial and led, at best, to manufacturing fake meaning. Unrewarding at best.

I typed the above before b33j posted her comment. She said what I was trying to get at way better than I think I ever could. Except for the therapy part. I'm not against it -- I just don't know anything about it.

I know it's not modeled anywhere in modern society, but it is very, very possible to be alone and still be at least as happy as anybody else, and sometimes more so. Don't build a definition of yourself from the detritus of a socially obsessed society. Nobody has everything they want. Many manage to be happy anyway. Be one of them.
posted by perspicio at 3:23 PM on May 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


I was lying in bed one morning in that state between asleep and awake and I heard a voice say in my ear, "It's a dangerous thing, believing that you are ordinary." It was just a bit of random brain gibberish, but it got me thinking about how the reinforcement of ordinariness creeps in and sets to work grinding down our expectations of life. And maybe we don't have a right to expect anything better (as adults, we learn to take our place in the crowd), but limiting ourselves to that semi-alive state certainly does us no favors.

I remember that phrase now, when I catch myself giving up and taking the path of least resistance, because really I'm the one limiting myself and ensuring that I'll never reach my potential. It gives me a little jolt of bravery to strive for better things, even if in the past I have been blocked.

I think it's easy to look at past experiences as data and believe that because condition A gave us result X in the past, that it will always be true (perhaps NT personality types are more susceptible to this thinking). But we forget to take into account that as people we are constantly learning and growing, and that changes the situation and changes the possible outcome. I'm not the same person I was three years ago, and therefore it is not logical to expect that when I encounter condition A that it will play out the same. I can try again, and maybe I can see my error and become a better version of myself in the process. For instance, I realized that it wasn't that it was hard for me to find people who would make good friends, but that I was actually shit at growing friendships. I had never learned the skills. I had told myself so many times that it was hard to make friends that it became my reality. Now I study my more social acquaintances and see what they do, and I apply it to my life and the people I would like to spend more time with. And hey, things are getting better.

There are loads of good suggestions here, but as an INTJ, challenge yourself to rethink what you believe is your rational reality. If you are citing examples from your teenage years or even things 5-10 years in the past, they may be too old and dated to be of use to the current you. New experiment time!
posted by griselda at 4:32 PM on May 1, 2011 [3 favorites]


Cognitive Behavioral Analytic System of Psychotherapy (CBASP) is a CBT-like therapy that was specifically designed to treat long-term depression and learned helplessness (and there's good evidence that it works for this). It focuses on showing you that you do have an effect on what happens in your life and then teaching you how to do that in a way that gets you what you want. If you think this could be an option for you, the site I linked has a list of CBASP providers.
posted by synchronia at 5:44 PM on May 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


Lots of good suggestions here--I nth the idea to get treatment for depression.

Another idea: volunteer. Pick a cause and help someone who's in undeniably worse shape than you. Make a commitment, stick to it (6 months? a year?) and watch your efforts make a difference over time. Helping someone or something--kids? elderly folks? animals? what resonates?--is a really profound way to help yourself.

Finally, I just have to say, this question resonates with me because it reminds me very strongly of an acquaintance of mine. Super nice guy, really smart and charming, but life has handed him some exquisitely shitty luck in the last several years and it seems like that's knocked his feet right out from under him. I'd be delighted to get to be friends with him but my overtures along those lines don't go anywhere and I get the sense the same kind of debilitating why botherism you're describing is behind it. I wish I could figure out how to gently convey to him that I don't think, say, his health problems or his job problems or the size of his butt have anything do to with his inherent self-worth, and that it'd just be cool to get to know him, one imperfect human being to another--but I fear that if I just came out and said something like that, he'd pull into his shell even further.

Long-winded way of saying: anonymous, good for you for recognizing this is a really awful vicious circle, and I'll bet that if you take a look around you there are lots of people who'd be happy to welcome you into their lives, if you'd let them into yours.
posted by Sublimity at 6:24 PM on May 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


I agree with those who suggest you obtain an evaluation and treatment for depression. The other thing is, if you can find a group (like group therapy), that can be extremely helpful for people who have never "fit in" socially and feel different from others. You can meet other people who feel the same way as you explore why you've been in this hole all your life.

Groups like this aren't easy to find. I would suggest by getting a referral as soon as possible to a psychiatrist.

You sound like a nice person and it sucks that you have to feel this badly about your life. With some professional help you won't have to.
posted by DMelanogaster at 6:31 PM on May 1, 2011


I felt a lot like you did 10 years ago. Now I'm married and have a couple of close friends (which is enough for me -- more would almost be too many, if you know what I mean.)

Learned helplessness, in my understanding, is basically a cognitive issue, meaning that you have certain habitual thoughts (that may arise from certain unexamined irrational beliefs) which cause the feeling (or numbness, it sometimes seems) of helplessness. The book Feeling Good explains how that works and offers some really useful and quick exercises to combat it. The first time I did some it felt like a miracle. Thoughts & Feelings is another book that offered some different exercises that were also helpful. Therapy was (and is) probably even more helpful at really getting at the core of the matter.
posted by callmejay at 7:54 PM on May 1, 2011


This is something that churned out of me during a conversation inspired by the original post, which the original poster could not participate in because he posted anonymously:

As a general rule, I think the more deeply self-reflective a person is, the less sense of fulfillment one is likely to receive from fitting in. It's really quite simple. Most people are (1) not deeply self-reflective, and (1) tend to quell any anxieties about where they fit into society by simply conforming to norms. (Yes, I'm aware that that was the same number twice.) Ordinarily, they would have no reason to ask why they should do this. The fact that doing so quells anxiety doesn't so much answer the question as preclude it. So it follows that those who ask such questions are already dissatisfied with what adhering to norms provides.

One thing I was not suggesting in my comment, but which in retrospect is probably not as apparent as I could have made it, is that being alone should in any way be a goal in itself. I'm not anti-normal. I am simply personally dissatisfied with normal. If normal works for others, who am I to argue? But I have to find my own way, and because it isn't the normal way, there are not many signposts. So it's a lot of trial and error, which can be very frustrating. However, once I got past "I wish I were normal," I began truly enjoying the journey - both the ups and the downs.

Some of the best experiences come from meeting others who have mustered the will to set forth from the continent of Conformia to see what else is out there. Even if all they're doing is exploring the coastline, they sometimes have interesting tales to tell. But that's not what the journey is about. And, truth be told, while many of the best experiences involve such meetings, not many such meetings lead to great experiences.
posted by perspicio at 12:31 PM on May 2, 2011


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