How to resolve our cross-cultural family problems?

May 9, 2005 10:56 AM

My live-in boyfriend and I have been together for six years, and would very much like to get married soon. Our relationship is rock solid. We are both immigrants living in New York City and while we want a low-key wedding both come from backgrounds that value family weddings - while we can keep it small and inexpensive, running off to Vegas would upset a lot of people. Wanting to get married is bringing some unresolved family issues to the forefront . . . .

I am white, western european and catholic, and my boyfriend is black, from a developing country and muslim. Not exactly unusual in NYC. Neither of our families is religious (neither are we) but we are the first inter-racial and interfaith couple in both families, and both have had serious problems with us stepping outside our cultures for this relationship. On my side, my family are long over this, come visit us every six months, exchange phone calls weekly, and generally have adopted my boyfriend as a family member. However on his side there is a lot of low-level distrust and unhappiness with me.

Their issue is, as best I can tell, a combination of the fact we have lived together prior to getting married, the fact that he is the eldest son and they want to see him with a girl from his country, and that I would be the only professional woman in the family (that is, both that I am the breadwinner and they can't trust that I will be having a large number of kids anytime soon). The upshot is that while his sisters are polite on the surface, they periodically cut off contact with us when I've done something particularly egregious (like talk to his mother), exclude me from family events, send my boyfriend photos of girls back home they see as potential brides, and generally make it clear I am not especially wanted in this family. His siblings gossip about us when we're not around. I try to be neutral, and all this is easily ignored because they're not around and we're so busy, but have lost my temper once. My boyfriend kept the fact we live together from his family for a couple of years, something I felt upset about at the time, and he will not under any circumstances argue with his mother. I should mention that some of his extended family (cousins, couple of sisters' husbands, family friends) have been very welcoming and kind but will not rock the boat to defend me in a big way.

As background, several of his sisters have had arranged marriages, and his younger brothers are single. Most of his siblings live in other parts of the States or in Europe. His father, whose opinion on me might be more favourable toward me and would certainly be the last word, is dead.

Wow, sorry about the length of this. Okay, so my questions are: Will this situation get better? Is it even possible to plan to introduce our two families? Can we get married against this background without the stress killing us (or me killing someone!)? Does anyone have any experience or advice to offer? Thanks!

posted by anonymous to human relations (24 comments total)

Wow. Good luck. I'd be inclined to tell you to run off to Vegas. It's about you and your boyfriend, no-one else. Go do it your way (or better, go do it somewhere exotic and expensively far away so not many people will be able to afford to come!) and when you get back, throw a big celebration party/ies for your family/ies, or a blessing, or something to include them. They get to go to the big family party and you get your special day trouble-free.

You love each other, you want to get married, that is ALL that matters. Doesn't seem to me that his family's disapproval has any effect on his feelings for you, so go do it. Screw 'em.
posted by corvine at 11:10 AM on May 9, 2005

I can't say I've been in your shoes, or know anybody in quite the same situation. That said, a couple pieces of advice:

1. Get married for yourselves, not your families. You don't even need to run off to Vegas to do that.

2. You don't have a lot of/any clout inside his family. Your SO does. If you haven't done so already, take him aside and explain that he has to be firm with his family--no more unwanted matchmaking, you are a permanent part of the picture and will be respected, etc.

3. It's conceivable that his family will put him in a position where try to make him choose between you or his family. That's an awful prospect, but not unheard of. Talk with him about ways to defuse that in advance.

4. It's conceivable that if you do elope, things will change for the better (not a reason to do it, obviously). Families obviously want to be there for the festivities, but they can also just be happy for your marriage (except where point 3 is true).

Best of luck.
posted by adamrice at 11:27 AM on May 9, 2005

adamrice's #3 is most important. focus on that before doing anything else.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:33 AM on May 9, 2005

It seems like your best bet would be to plan whatever sort of affair that you two want. If that's a small ceremony or an elopement, so be it. Since his family is distant and not so fond of you, it shouldn't be a problem as they probably won't want to be very involved in the planning. But whatever you decide, I would go with corvine's suggestion and make sure you have some sort of gathering at which everyone can celebrate together. Perhaps they really haven't gotten to know you. The most important thing is to be gracious and loving. Show them that you have confidence in your union. Unless they are total cads, you will win them over.

They may not have anything against you personally. It sounds like a cultural issue. Show them that you are sensitive to their culture. Incorporate some aspects of their culture into your wedding or reception. Make sure to serve some dishes from their country (not sure which country) that they will like. Do some research on their customs, if you haven't already. And pass a bit of what you learn onto your side of the family so that they can be sensitive as well. Making his family feel comfortable will go a long way. Otherwise, congratulations. Interracial marriages make me so happy. And have lots of kids.
posted by crapulent at 11:34 AM on May 9, 2005

"Will this situation get better?"

Probably not if you elope. For many traditional people (if I can use that euphemism for your boyfriend's family) marriage is a sacred institution and it is customary for that event to be celebrated publically. Going through with a wedding (on the cheap by all means) in this manner will allow the two families to meet and everyone to observe that the relationship is not going away. And it only has to happen once. Afterwards, you may see some change in some of your boyfriend's relatives. It may well be stressful but it's more probable than likely that it will reduce the stress in the years ahead.
But if you were to elope, they may find that to be contemptuous or disrespectful and harbor grudges for a lot longer, perhaps.
posted by peacay at 11:35 AM on May 9, 2005

Yes, I too would echo what corvine said. You could also announce that you're going to City Hall to sign the papers, and anyone who wants to attend is welcome to show up, and the naysayers and opponents can send money to the appropriate addresses.

That said, I have concerns about your boyfriend's unwillingness to confront/disagree with/argue with his mother. The fact he hid the fact you and he lived together is a huge red flag, and it seems he's afraid of her and isn't willing to stand up to her, and you both need to stand up to her and let her know she is not in charge of your lives or she'll wreck your marriage. You're both adults, and you need to inform her of this in whatever way she will understand and remember best. Good luck to you both.
posted by fandango_matt at 11:38 AM on May 9, 2005

This is just a little instance, but it does make me think people can change their minds: My mother's father was, shall we say, rather unhappy that my father is black. He refused to see me for the first couple years of my life because of this fact. Then, one day, my mother brought me up to visit and he totally fell in love. He died about a year later, and I am sad that I never got to know him, because by all accounts we would have liked each other. But he did change his mind.

Some of that probably had to do with my mother being willing to do things her way and stand up for herself, though. So I would definitely talk to him about that. But if you do stand your ground, people can come around. At least it happened once.
posted by dame at 11:53 AM on May 9, 2005

Amen to what peacay said. The idea that "marriage is for the couple" is a particularly American way of thinking, and for many people getting to see the actual wedding (not the reception, not the afterparty) is a very important thing, and not being included will be seen as an insult. It sounds like his family might be big on the marriage ceremony, and not letting them be a part of that won't make your situation any better.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:04 PM on May 9, 2005

[My boyfriend] will not under any circumstances argue with his mother.

Yikes. That's not okay.
posted by callmejay at 12:19 PM on May 9, 2005

Hi guys. Wow, thank you for your advice so far, it is very helpful to have someone look at the situation cold and let me know what they think.

(NB, this is a sockpuppet account for the purposes of responding to this question . . . . those of you who know me will recognize who I am, but for various reasons I don't want my name attached to this query)

and it seems he's afraid of her and isn't willing to stand up to her

My boyfriend is not afraid of his mum - but she is elderly and very set in her ways (hasn't left their home country much etc). I absolutely understand any hesitancy she may have. It's really his siblings - and specifically his sisters - that are the real problem here, especially those in the States.

Do some research on their customs, if you haven't already.

I have learned a little of their language, love their food, read about their history etc. I think we have this one covered!

For many traditional people marriage is a sacred institution and it is customary for that event to be celebrated publically

Yep. I have no problem going down to City Hall on a monday afternoon with one witness, but for his family (and more to the point MY family) this would really show a lack of respect and care.

I should add that the issues with his siblings doesn't affect me or even upset me day to day. I have warm relationships with many people from his community. But (a) this can't go on, we're all adults and (b) my family will want to be at my wedding, will be quite upset if their new in-laws aren't there, and will be very hurt if I am treated shabbily. The potential thought of getting them all in one room is killing me!
posted by nyc123 at 12:23 PM on May 9, 2005

I guess I'd say after that: bite the bullet, flick the town hall and have a proper wedding/reception so that both sets of relatives can be at both the wedding and reception. It's only once. It will placate a lot of people. And it might just be a good time!!
posted by peacay at 12:31 PM on May 9, 2005

Lots of good advice so far. This is about you two, NOT about your families. I like the idea of announcing that you'll be married at City Hall and anyone who wants to attend is welcome. Anyone who doesn't like it, well ... tough.

Your boyfriend should definitely tell his mother that this is how it is, and sorry if she doesn't like it but her opinion doesn't change anything. You are marrying your boyfriend, not his whole damn family! If your boyfriend can't confront Mother alone, you can talk to her together (she'll be outnumbered). Agree beforehand on what to say and state your case non-confrontationally, calmly and confidently. This goes a long way towards convincing the other person that your position is not negotiable. Mother can probably win a shouting match, but if you don't shout back, you are clearly in control of the situation and she has no leverage. By the way, stage this discussion on your turf, so that her other children aren't around to support her (you'll be outnumbered!) And stick to your guns - even if she tries to ambush you and open up the argument in the bosom of her family, give her the same calm confident statements every time. Repetition reinforces the idea that you really mean it and you won't let her control you.

There's a good chance that his family will come to accept you over time. If they see that you are still happy together after several years they'll probably get over their aversion to you. But it won't be quick, and you'll probably have to stand firm on a whole lot of family aggravations (Mother will undoubtedly try to control her son and you in smaller ways, demanding that you spend every holiday with them, spend your weekends painting her house, take her shopping, etc.) Your boyfriend needs to make it clear where his priorities are or he will be miserable trying to please both Mother and you, and the marriage may eventually fail.

On preview: getting both families together in the same room would probably be a lot less nerve-wracking if it's in a place like City Hall. Big, public, neutral turf with lots of people coming and going on all sorts of business. Also, if your 2 families don't seem to mingle very well, it won't be so painfully obvious in a busy public space. I'd suggest disappearing IMMEDIATELY afterward for your honeymoon - no reception until after you get home. Give the families a little time to get used to each other before throwing them together at a party.

"Family" tends to be a sacred cow but personally I disagree. If you are lucky enough to have a wonderful loving and supportive family, that's great, but most families are a decidedly mixed bag. If either family makes trouble, it's better to drift out of contact with them than to risk your happiness together. Your families are part of the past, your marriage is the future. Good luck and best wishes.
posted by Quietgal at 12:44 PM on May 9, 2005

For his family, marriage is probably not at all about the two of you, but about the continuation of their line and culture, and it's why marriage can be oh so different than just a legalizing of people living together. As you are noticing, the hugeness of marriage is bringing out issues that may have been latent beforehand, and dealing with extended family is one of them.

BE AWARE - this is a preview of what will happen when/if the two of you have kids. Start dealing with that NOW, or it may break your marriage.

Be as gracious and accommodating as you can, but be sure your husband to-be knows that this is the point where he has to step up, and take his place as his father's heir. Getting their family to accept and love you may take time, but in the meantime make sure your parents know that there are issues going on here with your in-laws. It's their right to know, and, as your elders they may have some good ways to handle it.
posted by jasper411 at 1:08 PM on May 9, 2005

I think it's important to remember that your wedding and marriage is about the two of you and no one else. If you want to run off to Vegas, do it! What is right for you (plural) is all that matters.

Would it be an option for you to plan a destination wedding? It doesn't necessarily have to take place in a foreign country, but it would be wise to plan it someplace centrally located for the people you DO want to come. This can often cut down on guests -- especially the unwanted ones -- because they won't make the effort or spend the money to travel to your wedding.

Have you heard of The Knot? There are message boards there (see the Talk section) with thousands of helpful newleyweds and brides. I think you'll find similar situations to yours there; who better to offer you advice? One warning: avoid the 'Planning & Etiquette' and 'Wedding Woes' boards like the plague. The 'Destination Weddings' board is populated with extremely kind and helpful women. Check it out.

Best of luck to you.
posted by suchatreat at 1:11 PM on May 9, 2005

Lots of good advice so far. This is about you two, NOT about your families.

I think it's important to remember that your wedding and marriage is about the two of you and no one else.

I don't think I could disagree any more with this sentiment. Especially in the case of a couple like this who have been living together for some time and who have come to an understanding about their commitment to one another, the wedding serves primarily as a public acknowledgement of the permanency of the relationship. The couple already know where they stand: the wedding won't change that. What it changes is the view that the outside world (including, most importantly, the families) has of the couple. The wedding is, in a very important way, about the families.

As others have pointed out, there's an important cultural element here. The sense of individualism in your answers, Quietgal and suchatreat, reflects a very American attitude: bold individualism. Now, I'm all for bold individualism, but I also understand that people from other cultures, like the boyfriend's family, might be offended by it. And you just can't ask him to forget his feelings for his family with a dismissive "family is overrated": that's a callous sentiment that has the potential to create some real long-term resentment.

Plus, it seems like the entire point of the question is that anonymous/nyc123 wants to find a way to accommodate as many people as possible (without going insane herself, of course). Rather than seeing this as a sign of weakness, I see it as a sign of grace, courtesy, and diplomacy. It's admirable.

OK, to actually try to answer the question.... My own wedding was a cross-cultural affair. Thankfully, we didn't face any of the hostility that you're facing, anonymous; both families were welcoming and friendly. We did, however, have to deal with some of the tension inherent in trying to accommodate a range of cultural expectations. We used the ceremony itself to address this tension. In the text of our ceremony, we directly acknowledged the fact that we came from different cultures, and we included elements in the ceremony that paid respect to both cultures. I don't know where you stand on religion; clearly, a by-the-book religious ceremony could make that kind of thing more difficult, since it would force you to choose one religion or the other. You could still probably pull off something similar, though. Our reception was also cross-cultural, including food and traditions from both. It went very well.

I know that doesn't address the interpersonal conflicts you're dealing with; hopefully it can give you some ideas as to how to cope with cultural conflicts.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:31 PM on May 9, 2005

I was seriously tempted to elope and leave my parents out of my wedding. But we chose instead to have a small backyard marriage ceremony at his mom's house with family members only, followed a week later by a large backyard party at my parents' house with lots of friends and family. We fed everyone loads of barbecue and cake, no big deal.

It was definitely the right decision for us because it gave everyone a chance to rise above and do the right thing. I hope you can work out a way to include both families in your ceremony. If any of them behave badly or refuse to participate, that will be their loss.

On preview, I do not think it's a good idea to try to intimidate, outnumber or out-shout a disapproving parent in this situation. Tempting, hell yes. Smart, not so much.

I think jasper411 and mr_roboto have it exactly right.
posted by naomi at 1:46 PM on May 9, 2005

i'm in a cross-cultural relationship, although nowhere near as complex as yours. in my experience, things did get better with time. in particular, the mother came to dominate the relationship less. however, this was with the passage of time rather than a wedding (we're not married, which gives you some idea of how much easier my life is than yours).

what was critical for us was communication (as ever). as long as you communicate with each other better than he communicates with his family, things will get better (ie slide your way).
posted by andrew cooke at 2:13 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm a child of an immigrant/cross-cultural relationship and I'd just like to remind what family/cultural conflicts can have on children, especially if particularly hostile or cruel.

I'm not saying not to have children or not to get married, but being pressured by both sides of the family to "choose" which family or culture is yours can be pretty damaging on identity, etc. Even worse is when one side of the family is so cruel/bigoted as to treat the child as the family outcast. Farfetched, maybe, but possible and huge on a child's development.

Just another thing to keep in mind, if children are in the future.
posted by Boydrop at 3:39 PM on May 9, 2005

Not that the folks here at ask.mefi haven't provided great answers, but the message boards over at indiebride.com are the best I've found for wedding conundrums. It's an awesome online community.
posted by arielmeadow at 4:39 PM on May 9, 2005

Neither of our families is religious (neither are we) but we are the first inter-racial and interfaith couple in both families, and both have had serious problems with us stepping outside our cultures for this relationship. O

if you don't care much about religion and really want to suck up to your in-laws, why don't you consider converting to Islam? you can't change your skin color but conversion to Islam can be quite fast. even if they're not very religious themselves maybe it'll strike them as a nice thing to do and they'll hate you less. who knows. if you're an indiffferent Catholic, just become an indifferent Muslim, just pretend you care and maybe they'll be impressed
posted by matteo at 4:54 PM on May 9, 2005

The fundamental question here is if your shared values, as a couple, include accommodation of his parents' values and interpersonal politics. If that's true, you need to include them at least partially in your decision-making. If it's false, you need to -- as a couple -- stop being cowed and do whatever the hell you want without concern.

If it's somewhere in between, you need to figure out what (and who) really matters to you two and how much, and base your decisions on that.

I am personally of the opinion that pushy extended family members can shove their impositions, gossip, courtly intrigues and grandstanding insistence in a dark, painful nether place. This may partially explain why I am largely estranged from my (Big Fat Ethnic) extended family, but from where I stand family elders and sibling hierarchies are not authority figures over adult family members. I have no tolerance for them acting that way.
posted by majick at 4:58 PM on May 9, 2005

Your situation sounds manageable. As you have noted, distance is on your side here. If you can keep the model daughter-in-law act up just for those times when you are with his family, I would expect that things will improve over time. From my own experience in a cross-cultural relationship, don't underestimate the value of learning his language and don't underestimate the value of the positive relationships you've established with some of his extended family.

Given that you're going to go through with this, your main problem is surviving it without going nuts. I suggest cultivating the ability to see the funny side of this situation, it's there if you look hard enough.
posted by teleskiving at 5:31 PM on May 9, 2005

I agree with a lot of people here. As much as I'm usually a "screw the overblown expectations of the family and do what you want" kind of girl, this isn't that kind of situation.

Try to get all the relatives in one room and have some sort of ceremony. I think that if you elope, it is likely that his family won't consider you "really" married, yes? I say, take the high road. When it's all over and you're truly married, you and he can always counter with the fact that you've been nothing but gracious, respectful and welcoming...AND you're his wife. 'Nuff said. I bet his mother will be gradually become more comfortable. And I bet that when she does, his sisters might be encouraged to chill out.
posted by desuetude at 6:28 AM on May 10, 2005

As a Muslim, I can tell you that faking a conversion to Islam would be an excellent strategy. Even if his family is no longer practicing, your Catholic roots are still one of the reason they don't like you.

As a Pakistani, I can tell you that having a big wedding is pretty much required. Anything else would be considered offensive to anyone not invited. It won't be cheap, but think of it as an investment.
posted by exhilaration at 10:21 AM on May 12, 2005