How to handle exclusion
April 22, 2011 12:42 PM Subscribe
Do I let (seemingly) being excluded bother me? Do I say anything?
I'm editing a book with three other women. While perusing a local website, I noticed they are doing a reading together. I wasn't asked, and obviously there's no law that says they have to include me (They may even be working on other projects, right?). I'm having a hard time deciding what my response/reaction should be. Help me to calm myself and do the right thing regardless. Oh, and what is the right thing? I can't decide.
I'm editing a book with three other women. While perusing a local website, I noticed they are doing a reading together. I wasn't asked, and obviously there's no law that says they have to include me (They may even be working on other projects, right?). I'm having a hard time deciding what my response/reaction should be. Help me to calm myself and do the right thing regardless. Oh, and what is the right thing? I can't decide.
Yeah, maybe they felt awkward inviting you, knowing that they hadn't asked you to participate, so they didn't say anything at all.
Attend, and be happy for them. It could be a huge burden off of them. Do you let them know ahead of time? Sure, why not? Be positive about it.
posted by Xoebe at 12:52 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Attend, and be happy for them. It could be a huge burden off of them. Do you let them know ahead of time? Sure, why not? Be positive about it.
posted by Xoebe at 12:52 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I can't tell if juniperesque is a Pollyanna or is deviously pretending to be Pollyanna, but it's great advice if you can carry it off as brightly, blithely, and insouciantly as juniperesque (apparently) suggests it.
posted by orthogonality at 12:54 PM on April 22, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by orthogonality at 12:54 PM on April 22, 2011 [9 favorites]
Well, first you need to know if you're being excluded. One suggestion is to call the venue and ask them what is being read if you aren't certain it's the book you all are editing.
If it is the book you are working on, that's disappointing. How important is the project to you really? How much have you worked and invested? Set your ego aside and ask that. If it's very important, I'd say you must speak to at least one of them. Just ask. Do it on the phone, don't be scared, this is your work, too. You deserve to know. If they say anything negative, you can take it as feedback. If they say they forgot or something (lame), then let them know you're disappointed and you want to be included. Overall, generally stick up for yourself in a non-threatening way.
If it's not that important, really, maybe send a more casual e-mail with the question or just let it go.
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:55 PM on April 22, 2011
If it is the book you are working on, that's disappointing. How important is the project to you really? How much have you worked and invested? Set your ego aside and ask that. If it's very important, I'd say you must speak to at least one of them. Just ask. Do it on the phone, don't be scared, this is your work, too. You deserve to know. If they say anything negative, you can take it as feedback. If they say they forgot or something (lame), then let them know you're disappointed and you want to be included. Overall, generally stick up for yourself in a non-threatening way.
If it's not that important, really, maybe send a more casual e-mail with the question or just let it go.
posted by amodelcitizen at 12:55 PM on April 22, 2011
Yes, go - maybe mention it to them beforehand casually. "I heard about your reading on Saturday and I hope you don't mind if I'm in the audience, since of course I am a fan of your work."
Either the reading situation was awkward for some reason or perhaps they were worried about your reaction. Prove them wrong by being a gracious audience member.
posted by griselda at 12:56 PM on April 22, 2011
Either the reading situation was awkward for some reason or perhaps they were worried about your reaction. Prove them wrong by being a gracious audience member.
posted by griselda at 12:56 PM on April 22, 2011
You are not being excluded. You were just not invited to take part in something two other people want to do together. It is not the same thing.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:00 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 1:00 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
Do I let (seemingly) being excluded bother me? Do I say anything?
I'm one of those people who are certain that all my friends are having a fabulous time without me when I'm not doing anything. I have some friends who are good enough friends that I've flat out asked them about this a few times. There's always been some completely normal explanation ["we thought you were out of town" "we were going to a seafood place and we know you hate fish" "you'd hate these people"] enough so that I started realizing that my concerns about being excluded were really sort of my own personal weirdness for whatever reason.
So I just started adopting a more juniperesque approach. They're my friends and I like them, why would I presume they're being exclusive jerks to me? So I'd show up anyhow (if it's something you're likely to want to attend anyhow) and if they act weird and squirrely, that's sort of on them. Unless you have reason to believe they're acting as representatives of your project and also not inviting you, I'd just treat it like something normal people do (make odd connections and plan makings due to factors that are difficult if not impossible to understand). If it makes you feel weird to go on your own, bring a friend.
posted by jessamyn at 1:07 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'm one of those people who are certain that all my friends are having a fabulous time without me when I'm not doing anything. I have some friends who are good enough friends that I've flat out asked them about this a few times. There's always been some completely normal explanation ["we thought you were out of town" "we were going to a seafood place and we know you hate fish" "you'd hate these people"] enough so that I started realizing that my concerns about being excluded were really sort of my own personal weirdness for whatever reason.
So I just started adopting a more juniperesque approach. They're my friends and I like them, why would I presume they're being exclusive jerks to me? So I'd show up anyhow (if it's something you're likely to want to attend anyhow) and if they act weird and squirrely, that's sort of on them. Unless you have reason to believe they're acting as representatives of your project and also not inviting you, I'd just treat it like something normal people do (make odd connections and plan makings due to factors that are difficult if not impossible to understand). If it makes you feel weird to go on your own, bring a friend.
posted by jessamyn at 1:07 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
Wait. Okay fine, maybe there's a reason that they didn't include you in the reading. But if so, they still would have told you about it and asked you to go. So... it's weird to me. But I am also very sensitive about feeling excluded.
I don't really have a definitive answer besides cautioning against just showing up anyway. I think it would seem almost passive-aggressive to show up to something that you weren't invited to (yes, it's a public event obviously since you found it online, but still...) if they are intentionally excluding you, and that might make future professional work with them awkward.
As far as say something or don't, in my personal dealings I would almost always not say something. But as to whether that's a good/healthy/useful strategy, I can't say.
posted by thebazilist at 1:15 PM on April 22, 2011
I don't really have a definitive answer besides cautioning against just showing up anyway. I think it would seem almost passive-aggressive to show up to something that you weren't invited to (yes, it's a public event obviously since you found it online, but still...) if they are intentionally excluding you, and that might make future professional work with them awkward.
As far as say something or don't, in my personal dealings I would almost always not say something. But as to whether that's a good/healthy/useful strategy, I can't say.
posted by thebazilist at 1:15 PM on April 22, 2011
People seem to be perceiving this as a social slight. Am I wrong in assuming that this is more of a professional affront? It may just be a hobby book, and you may like these people, but if they are engaging in some sort of promotion/event on the book that your name is going to be on, then you have every right to ask them what's up.
posted by Think_Long at 1:31 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 1:31 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
I donʻt blame you for feeling bad. If this is a reading of the book you are working on, you should have been invited. Let them know you "heard" about the reading and want to attend too. Try not to be angrily confrontational. Be cool, calm, collected, and let them know you feel that you should be included in work-related events.
If it is a social event, then there is no reason they should include you. But for a work event, where the rest of the team is going, you should be included.
posted by fifilaru at 2:00 PM on April 22, 2011
If it is a social event, then there is no reason they should include you. But for a work event, where the rest of the team is going, you should be included.
posted by fifilaru at 2:00 PM on April 22, 2011
Listen to juniperesque. What do you have to lose by taking the high road here? If you are wrong about the reason for exclusion, then you attend and show support for these women and their interests. Win! If you have been excluded professionally, then your attendance (be gracious!) is an indication that you can assert yourself calmly and without causing anyone to lose face. Perhaps not as satisfying a win, but it does put the ball in their court as far as what happens after the reading. And what *do* you want to happen, later? Is it in your long-term interest to remain professionally friendly with these women? Then swallow hard, breathe deeply and let a smile be your armor.
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:21 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:21 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: DarlingBri: There are four of us, and the announcement read Three of the four editors of [title of book].
posted by Prairie at 3:20 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Prairie at 3:20 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I revise my comment to "That's some bullshit" then, and I'd just ask them what's going on more or less directly. If you can do it and keep the edge out of your voice, that would be good. "So it looks like you guys are doing this thing as people involved in our book and I wasn't invited or notified. What's up?"
posted by jessamyn at 3:23 PM on April 22, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 3:23 PM on April 22, 2011 [8 favorites]
Prairie: "DarlingBri: There are four of us, and the announcement read Three of the four editors of [title of book]."
Sorry, that was not clear to me from the original post. If that is the case, you are most blatantly being excluded. I would raise this with them directly. I would say something about being delighted they're at Whatever Books on the 24th but confused as to why the invitation was not extended to all of the local editors.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:27 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sorry, that was not clear to me from the original post. If that is the case, you are most blatantly being excluded. I would raise this with them directly. I would say something about being delighted they're at Whatever Books on the 24th but confused as to why the invitation was not extended to all of the local editors.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:27 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is.... weird.
Do you have a written contract that lays out your relationship with your co-editors and your proportion of credit on the book? Do you each get 25% of royalties, etc? Is there a chance that they don't think of you as a 'real' editor or an equal partner? Because these are the questions this raises for me. I would definitely address it, because either it's a social slight, OR you (pl.) have a miscommunication about your (sing.) relationship to this project.
posted by bq at 3:32 PM on April 22, 2011
Do you have a written contract that lays out your relationship with your co-editors and your proportion of credit on the book? Do you each get 25% of royalties, etc? Is there a chance that they don't think of you as a 'real' editor or an equal partner? Because these are the questions this raises for me. I would definitely address it, because either it's a social slight, OR you (pl.) have a miscommunication about your (sing.) relationship to this project.
posted by bq at 3:32 PM on April 22, 2011
Devil's advocate: Where is the venue? Could the venue be the one doing the excluding?
Just speculating because this just seems so uncool I can't believe it occurred!
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:33 PM on April 22, 2011
Just speculating because this just seems so uncool I can't believe it occurred!
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:33 PM on April 22, 2011
Response by poster: It's not the venue. I've been coming to this venue for years and never had any problems. The MC is a real doll, a lovely person.
posted by Prairie at 3:39 PM on April 22, 2011
posted by Prairie at 3:39 PM on April 22, 2011
DarlingBri: There are four of us, and the announcement read Three of the four editors of [title of book].
This is a terrible miscommunication or some absolute bullshit.
posted by Think_Long at 3:50 PM on April 22, 2011
This is a terrible miscommunication or some absolute bullshit.
posted by Think_Long at 3:50 PM on April 22, 2011
That seems awfully cowardly of them not to say anything to you and just hope you didn't hear of the reading.
It might be a case of mismatched artistic visions and they have so far failed to handle or communicate the problem respectfully. If they don't offer up a heartfelt apology and are eager to make amends after you bring the problem to light (this nonsense seems to indicate they won't), think about the next best resolution of the situation for you. It might be abandoning this association, or it might be working with them to see if you can get on board with whatever vibe the three of them share.
posted by griselda at 4:23 PM on April 22, 2011
It might be a case of mismatched artistic visions and they have so far failed to handle or communicate the problem respectfully. If they don't offer up a heartfelt apology and are eager to make amends after you bring the problem to light (this nonsense seems to indicate they won't), think about the next best resolution of the situation for you. It might be abandoning this association, or it might be working with them to see if you can get on board with whatever vibe the three of them share.
posted by griselda at 4:23 PM on April 22, 2011
This really seems like straight-up dishonesty to me. If it were a miscommunication why haven't you heard anything about it from them?
So I think talking about it wouldn't get you a straight answer, although whatever answer you do get will likely be revealing, especially if you come right out with it when they're least expecting it.
I would almost be tempted to send a spy to the reading, or try by other means to find out what they're hiding. But that doesn't matter so much as the fact that they're hiding it. I don't know what the best resolution of the situation might be for you, other than "wrap up the project and don't work with them again", but having more information might change that, so I'd at least spend some time trying to figure it out before I confronted them.
The first question is the stupid obvious one: what could they possibly have to gain by excluding you from the reading? What will they get from going to the reading and why might they want to keep that benefit for themselves at your expense?
posted by tel3path at 5:10 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
So I think talking about it wouldn't get you a straight answer, although whatever answer you do get will likely be revealing, especially if you come right out with it when they're least expecting it.
I would almost be tempted to send a spy to the reading, or try by other means to find out what they're hiding. But that doesn't matter so much as the fact that they're hiding it. I don't know what the best resolution of the situation might be for you, other than "wrap up the project and don't work with them again", but having more information might change that, so I'd at least spend some time trying to figure it out before I confronted them.
The first question is the stupid obvious one: what could they possibly have to gain by excluding you from the reading? What will they get from going to the reading and why might they want to keep that benefit for themselves at your expense?
posted by tel3path at 5:10 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
You've got to a) ask what's going on, and b) be incredibly, bending-over-backwards generous in your own mind in interpreting the explanation you get. Look for it to be innocuous, kind, and innocent. Be as understanding as you can.
Then decide what to do.
posted by amtho at 5:39 PM on April 22, 2011
Then decide what to do.
posted by amtho at 5:39 PM on April 22, 2011
Response by poster: Trying my best to withhold judgement, I e-mailed the one I know best. "I noticed you guys are giving a reading and would you mind if I attended, showed support?" Her reply--"Why would I mind? See you there." As the kids say, "Really?" Is she really oblivious?
By the way, this reading is in another town 60 miles away.
posted by Prairie at 8:14 PM on April 22, 2011
By the way, this reading is in another town 60 miles away.
posted by Prairie at 8:14 PM on April 22, 2011
Ask straight out why you were excluded. Keep it short and sweet.
posted by bq at 7:06 AM on April 23, 2011
posted by bq at 7:06 AM on April 23, 2011
After your clarifying updates, this all seems really strange. Is it possible that they thought they invited you and you ignored them, or you had implied in the past that you are over booked/don't do that kind of thing? I wouldn't assume the worst, especially given their responses.
posted by fermezporte at 9:50 AM on April 23, 2011
posted by fermezporte at 9:50 AM on April 23, 2011
Is there any chance that you were not invited due to the distance between you and the venue? Maybe they didn't want to burden you with having to travel 60 miles for just a few hours (or however long the reading would last) and decided that they could hold down the reading as a trio this one time just because they live closer?
posted by lovelygirl at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2011
posted by lovelygirl at 12:50 PM on April 23, 2011
Response by poster: Lovelygirl: They live in the same town I do. We'd all have to travel.
posted by Prairie at 8:51 AM on April 24, 2011
posted by Prairie at 8:51 AM on April 24, 2011
Response by poster: Fermezporte: I think very strange too. Remember, I only e-mailed the one I know best. I would have remembered being invited. I'm not that big a deal that I'd be jaded about being invited. I'd jump on it in fact. And we're ALL busy, crazed busy as it turns out. So, I doubt it.
When I figure out the right thing to say without offending anyone or putting anyone on the defensive, I'll let you know.
posted by Prairie at 8:59 AM on April 24, 2011
When I figure out the right thing to say without offending anyone or putting anyone on the defensive, I'll let you know.
posted by Prairie at 8:59 AM on April 24, 2011
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posted by juniperesque at 12:48 PM on April 22, 2011 [8 favorites]