Should I keep my mouth shut?
April 22, 2011 10:59 AM Subscribe
Is there anything I can say to discourage my socially-anxious friend from giving pedantic lectures?
P. and I met on a camping trip many years ago and have been close friends ever since. She's highly intelligent and sensitive. No chance of Asperger's or autism, just social phobias and anxieties galore. Years of emotional difficulties have led to P. being extremely socially isolated, aside from me and a few close friends she goes camping with.
Now that she's beginning to heal and branch out, she gives casual friends and acquaintances a lot of inappropriate, unsolicited factual lectures. Usually these have the tone of "Harrumph, I'm the expert in the room here," and they tend to be inserted into casual, jokey conversations that have no call for a resident "expert." P.'s behavior probably stems from insecurity about her own importance, but who knows? I've cringed watching this play out on Facebook and in real life many times, and lately she's even been doing it to me when we're alone. (Usually, one-on-one, she's a pleasure to be around.)
I hate to see her unintentionally sabotage a broader social life, but I definitely don't want to say anything that will make her even more self-conscious. Can anyone suggest a gentle or indirect way to address this?
Or should I shut up and let P. learn her own lessons and make her own mistakes?
P. and I met on a camping trip many years ago and have been close friends ever since. She's highly intelligent and sensitive. No chance of Asperger's or autism, just social phobias and anxieties galore. Years of emotional difficulties have led to P. being extremely socially isolated, aside from me and a few close friends she goes camping with.
Now that she's beginning to heal and branch out, she gives casual friends and acquaintances a lot of inappropriate, unsolicited factual lectures. Usually these have the tone of "Harrumph, I'm the expert in the room here," and they tend to be inserted into casual, jokey conversations that have no call for a resident "expert." P.'s behavior probably stems from insecurity about her own importance, but who knows? I've cringed watching this play out on Facebook and in real life many times, and lately she's even been doing it to me when we're alone. (Usually, one-on-one, she's a pleasure to be around.)
I hate to see her unintentionally sabotage a broader social life, but I definitely don't want to say anything that will make her even more self-conscious. Can anyone suggest a gentle or indirect way to address this?
Or should I shut up and let P. learn her own lessons and make her own mistakes?
My boyfriend sometimes teases me for being Brainy Smurf. I think it helps to have someone you like and trust gently point out that, yeah, you are in fact right and smart and all that, but other people don't always like to be reminded of it. Sometimes it's ok to just laugh when they horribly misquote some Latin instead of correcting them.
I'm always reluctantly appreciative when he points it out. Especially when it's a mid-conversation, "Oh yeah, hun, that's true isn't it? By the way (back to whatever we were talking about)." Maybe, if it wouldn't be intrusive, you could run some interference?
posted by chatongriffes at 11:14 AM on April 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm always reluctantly appreciative when he points it out. Especially when it's a mid-conversation, "Oh yeah, hun, that's true isn't it? By the way (back to whatever we were talking about)." Maybe, if it wouldn't be intrusive, you could run some interference?
posted by chatongriffes at 11:14 AM on April 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
Coming in to recommend Big Bang Theory, now I'll just second it.
posted by cyndigo at 11:18 AM on April 22, 2011
posted by cyndigo at 11:18 AM on April 22, 2011
I think when she does it to you alone, just say, "Hey, it kind of puts me off when you do that. You know? I just feel like I'm not really being heard." Not a big production, just a friend being honest with a friend. It takes guts, but...totally better than not saying anything.
I'd restrict the comments to how it makes you feel when she does it. If you talk about everyone else, it kind of implies, "And everyone else thinks you're weird, too." So, that would be really scary to hear, especially for an emotionally fragile person.
I would be brief, direct, kind, and not dwell. Then continue the friendship as usual.
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:22 AM on April 22, 2011
I'd restrict the comments to how it makes you feel when she does it. If you talk about everyone else, it kind of implies, "And everyone else thinks you're weird, too." So, that would be really scary to hear, especially for an emotionally fragile person.
I would be brief, direct, kind, and not dwell. Then continue the friendship as usual.
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:22 AM on April 22, 2011
Good recommendations so far. Maybe introduce her to the Socratic method?
posted by idb at 11:24 AM on April 22, 2011
posted by idb at 11:24 AM on April 22, 2011
I'm going to give you an anecdotal tip: you can be honest with people who are "too" honest with other people. Do you actually KNOW that her motivation is, as you've apparently concluded, self-consciousness?
posted by rhizome at 11:38 AM on April 22, 2011
posted by rhizome at 11:38 AM on April 22, 2011
For someone with social anxiety disorder, I think a direct approach could be kinda traumatic. I've known people who would be terribly wounded by any kind of direct criticism no matter how brief. That's not to say they shouldn't be criticized ... I'd just have a hard time doing it.
I think something more roundabout might be more effective. Something really sarcastic -- "Okay, I'll stop telling my joke now so you can instruct us on the nuances of [whatever it is]. You done? Okay, where was I ... Oh, never mind."
posted by jayder at 11:40 AM on April 22, 2011
I think something more roundabout might be more effective. Something really sarcastic -- "Okay, I'll stop telling my joke now so you can instruct us on the nuances of [whatever it is]. You done? Okay, where was I ... Oh, never mind."
posted by jayder at 11:40 AM on April 22, 2011
Even if you can make her see the behavior is problematic I doubt you can get her to do much about it. I'm not saying don't try, but I could give you a top 10 list of things I do that are annoying and that I know about and yet I still do them. Sometimes I can moderate these behaviors, but often I think this is who I am, sorry it annoys you. Other times I'd rather not behave in a particular manner, but don't seem to have a lot of control over it. It might be much like telling a smoker that it's bad for them and annoying to those around them (like they don't already know this).
I have had some things pointed out to me over the years and I've changed a few things because of this, but for the most part I don't have many of those people in my life. It's easier to get smarter friends than it is to hang around with ones that are upset you're a know-it-all. I sort of kid here, but if you're annoying to your friends it might be time to find new friends.
You also have to be prepared for the fact that she might not agree with your assessment. I have a friend that needs anger management classes more than you can imagine, and I bet you can imagine his reaction when anyone suggests this. It's almost a parody when he yells that he doesn't have anger issues!
posted by cjorgensen at 11:42 AM on April 22, 2011
I have had some things pointed out to me over the years and I've changed a few things because of this, but for the most part I don't have many of those people in my life. It's easier to get smarter friends than it is to hang around with ones that are upset you're a know-it-all. I sort of kid here, but if you're annoying to your friends it might be time to find new friends.
You also have to be prepared for the fact that she might not agree with your assessment. I have a friend that needs anger management classes more than you can imagine, and I bet you can imagine his reaction when anyone suggests this. It's almost a parody when he yells that he doesn't have anger issues!
posted by cjorgensen at 11:42 AM on April 22, 2011
I picked up the phrase "informing me against my will" from a friend's lament about one of her over-educating drinking buddies - apparently it became a catchphrase of that group, and became the running joke used to remind the guy that nobody had, in fact, asked him, even though he was probably right. It seemed to work great for them, if only I knew how that whole thing got introduced!!
posted by aimedwander at 11:47 AM on April 22, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by aimedwander at 11:47 AM on April 22, 2011 [11 favorites]
Being direct is brutal, but I think being sarcastic is way worse. It's like making a sideshow or a mean joke out of her compulsion. Which, okay, I could handle, but it seems for someone who is super sensitive, sarcasm would hurt more. Just throw a nice little comment in and then get on with it, I say. If it can be subtle or funny without the emptiness of sarcasm, better.
And don't say nothing just because it's difficult to change. That's bogus. Your friends should be able to tell you things, and this seems important.
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:51 AM on April 22, 2011 [3 favorites]
And don't say nothing just because it's difficult to change. That's bogus. Your friends should be able to tell you things, and this seems important.
posted by amodelcitizen at 11:51 AM on April 22, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm a semi-reformed socially anxious know-it-all IRL (less so on the intertubes, for some reason). My habit of correcting people isn't related to some social insecurity; it's more like OCD. It's the conversational equivalent of adjusting the picture frame so it hangs straight. My husband habitually mispronounces one word and it's like nails on a chalkboard to me, but I don't say anything because I know it will annoy him. I think you need to be direct with your friend, but don't address her behavior around other people unless she asks about it.
Here is a paraphrased version of what my husband said to me, and it has made me much more aware of my behavior and its impact on others. "It makes me feel like you think I'm stupid when you correct me over something trivial. You knew what I meant when I said X, even if Y was the correct word to use. Please don't do that any more."
posted by desjardins at 12:11 PM on April 22, 2011 [7 favorites]
Here is a paraphrased version of what my husband said to me, and it has made me much more aware of my behavior and its impact on others. "It makes me feel like you think I'm stupid when you correct me over something trivial. You knew what I meant when I said X, even if Y was the correct word to use. Please don't do that any more."
posted by desjardins at 12:11 PM on April 22, 2011 [7 favorites]
I think it's plausible this is driven by her insecurity, rather than something like male answer syndrome or a "someone is wrong on the internet" compulsion or whatever. I definitely worry about being funny or interesting enough to my friends, so when I have a chance to be an expert I get excited because I (finally) feel like I have something valuable to contribute. That desire motivates most of my comments on Metafilter, and it's been useful to get some feedback (via favorites and lack thereof) that a lot of what I write isn't totally blowing people away.
For your friend, here's an answer I really liked on a somewhat related question, about how to gently signal to a date that you'd like him to stop talking. Maybe worth a try?
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 12:32 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
For your friend, here's an answer I really liked on a somewhat related question, about how to gently signal to a date that you'd like him to stop talking. Maybe worth a try?
posted by Dixon Ticonderoga at 12:32 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Can anyone suggest a gentle or indirect way to address this?
I've had friends like this too. If she were my friend, the next time she interrupted a joke with something pedantic, I would say something like "dooooood, we're joking! let's joke when we're joking!" and just be goofy about it. I don't think it's neccesary to start off with A Serious Talk when someone's just being kind of a wet noodle.
The next time she did it I would probably escalate to "aaarggh!! i'm joking!!!!" and tickle the shit out of her. After that I would probably just give her a tickle attack whenever she did that. YMMV though, I don't know if you have the kind of relationship where that would be received well or not.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:37 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've had friends like this too. If she were my friend, the next time she interrupted a joke with something pedantic, I would say something like "dooooood, we're joking! let's joke when we're joking!" and just be goofy about it. I don't think it's neccesary to start off with A Serious Talk when someone's just being kind of a wet noodle.
The next time she did it I would probably escalate to "aaarggh!! i'm joking!!!!" and tickle the shit out of her. After that I would probably just give her a tickle attack whenever she did that. YMMV though, I don't know if you have the kind of relationship where that would be received well or not.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:37 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a know-it-all myself, I sort of want to take her part. When I say these things it's because I decided long ago that I wouldn't mind being corrected. In fact, I sort of love it when someone who knows what they're talking about gets "didactic" because I learn from it. It's part of my value system that truth and information is more important than embarassment or never being wrong.
So, I think you might be able to succeed with her by brightly and matter-of-factly, in the abstract, telling her that sometimes people don't like being corrected, or turn it into a personal anecdote about how you yourself learned tact. She'll get the lesson without it being personal.
That is, assuming your intentions are really motivated by altruism and ignoring the irony of correcting the corrector. If you suspect, though, that uncharitable condescenion, jealousy, or passive-aggressiveness is at all behind your feelings, don't do it. Coincidentally I was just thinking this morning how thankful I was that I didn't do somehing lastweek that, at the time I self-justified, but now I realize was really just passive-agressiveness. No good ever comes of that.
posted by Nixy at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
So, I think you might be able to succeed with her by brightly and matter-of-factly, in the abstract, telling her that sometimes people don't like being corrected, or turn it into a personal anecdote about how you yourself learned tact. She'll get the lesson without it being personal.
That is, assuming your intentions are really motivated by altruism and ignoring the irony of correcting the corrector. If you suspect, though, that uncharitable condescenion, jealousy, or passive-aggressiveness is at all behind your feelings, don't do it. Coincidentally I was just thinking this morning how thankful I was that I didn't do somehing lastweek that, at the time I self-justified, but now I realize was really just passive-agressiveness. No good ever comes of that.
posted by Nixy at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
Personally, I don't think you should say anything right now. You should allow her to go through this phase, assist her conversationally if she runs into speed bumps or all-out roadblock (change the subject, make a joke, steer her into one on one conversations with people who share her interests, whatever) and allow her to experience whatever social feedback she receives. She needs to learn how she's coming across through experience and processing that experience. If this sort of thing becomes the standard, however, over a long period of time and she starts asking for your opinion on why certain people don't seem to like her, then you should put in your two cents. If she offends or hurts your feelings personally in one of these conversations, then I'd amend that and say you should pull her aside and tell her what happened, how you felt, and why, without making it a larger conversation about what you judge to be her social shortcomings (an "everybody thinks you're...." conversation.)
I've been in her shoes. It takes a really, really, really long time to get over anxiety enough to get out of your head while you're socializing, and to correctly interpret the cues others are sending you. Your friend is in a really delicate phase right now. Give her time to start to learn. She's trying to develop self-esteem by asserting herself. If you step on that, it's going to hurt her feelings and even set her back in her progress somewhat. We all know people who are particularly aggressive in conversation. We all handle it by being human ourselves, indulging what we will, and throwing focus elsewhere when it becomes too much. It's nice for you to be concerned about her and your other friends. It's equally nice for you to allow her to come into her own.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 12:39 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
I've been in her shoes. It takes a really, really, really long time to get over anxiety enough to get out of your head while you're socializing, and to correctly interpret the cues others are sending you. Your friend is in a really delicate phase right now. Give her time to start to learn. She's trying to develop self-esteem by asserting herself. If you step on that, it's going to hurt her feelings and even set her back in her progress somewhat. We all know people who are particularly aggressive in conversation. We all handle it by being human ourselves, indulging what we will, and throwing focus elsewhere when it becomes too much. It's nice for you to be concerned about her and your other friends. It's equally nice for you to allow her to come into her own.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 12:39 PM on April 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
Keep in mind that some of us don't mind being corrected, either, so don't assume that because it annoys you, the others in your social circle are likewise annoyed. I didn't know the difference between a balustrade and a bannister until jessamyn's post, and now I'm glad I do. I can't imagine being annoyed if she'd corrected me on that in person, but I respect that it would irk others.
posted by desjardins at 12:49 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 12:49 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm totally stealing this from a joke in jessamyn's link, but if she's a Futurama fan, you can congratulate her on being "technically correct, the best kind of correct." Framing it as a reference to a cartoon instead of a direct criticism might take some of the sting out of it, while still getting the message across. But only if she watches the show.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:52 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:52 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
You know, it's hard to give advice for situations like this. I have found what works for me is to be as blunt and obnoxious about a thing as I can. Seriously.
Someone step in poop? OMG!! You stepped in poop!!!!!
A few things are going on here:
First, you communicate the issue: You stepped in poop.
Second, you confirm what the anxiety was about: Yes, I can smell it, you aren't hiding it.
Third, by being sort of obnoxious about it, you remove the awkward burden of propiety. Play a little bit the fool, and shoulder the burden of embarrassment with your friend, unbeknownst to them. They'll be more annoyed with you than they will be embarrassed by the poop on their shoes.
Fourth, you clearly remain their friend, even though they have poop on their shoes. You're just the loud and obnoxious friend.
Lastly, they'll be grateful. A true friend does these things for a friend. It's subtle.
Now, your mileage may vary. If this method doesn't suit you, remember the key elements. Communicate the issue directly. Don't screw around. Don't embarrass your friend, or divert the embarrassment skillfully. Do it with love. You can't hide love.
posted by Xoebe at 1:04 PM on April 22, 2011
Someone step in poop? OMG!! You stepped in poop!!!!!
A few things are going on here:
First, you communicate the issue: You stepped in poop.
Second, you confirm what the anxiety was about: Yes, I can smell it, you aren't hiding it.
Third, by being sort of obnoxious about it, you remove the awkward burden of propiety. Play a little bit the fool, and shoulder the burden of embarrassment with your friend, unbeknownst to them. They'll be more annoyed with you than they will be embarrassed by the poop on their shoes.
Fourth, you clearly remain their friend, even though they have poop on their shoes. You're just the loud and obnoxious friend.
Lastly, they'll be grateful. A true friend does these things for a friend. It's subtle.
Now, your mileage may vary. If this method doesn't suit you, remember the key elements. Communicate the issue directly. Don't screw around. Don't embarrass your friend, or divert the embarrassment skillfully. Do it with love. You can't hide love.
posted by Xoebe at 1:04 PM on April 22, 2011
I think desjardins' approach is the best here. Be direct, but be gentle. Your friend probably has no idea that doing this is turning people off. If she's socially awkward, she might not pick up on hints or joking, and if she's anxious and sensitive, she might not take criticism well.
Next time she does it with just the two of you, say something like "I know you're trying to help, but I find it embarrassing when I'm telling a story and I get interrupted or corrected. It catches me off guard and makes me feel stupid." Phrase it so it's not about her, but about a behavior. It helps soften the blow if you imply that it's the kind of thing lots of people do once in a while.
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:26 PM on April 22, 2011
Next time she does it with just the two of you, say something like "I know you're trying to help, but I find it embarrassing when I'm telling a story and I get interrupted or corrected. It catches me off guard and makes me feel stupid." Phrase it so it's not about her, but about a behavior. It helps soften the blow if you imply that it's the kind of thing lots of people do once in a while.
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:26 PM on April 22, 2011
Yes, please say something.
She's trying and she can't read the nuances just yet. It would be devastating to her attempts if people ignored her and she didn't know why. She can't crack that code yet.
When it's just the two of you, try this..."Hey, it's awesome that you're broadening your social circle. How do you think people would respond if you backed off on the lectures? Why don't you try that and see how it goes?" You're teaching her to read social cues.
posted by 26.2 at 2:04 PM on April 22, 2011
She's trying and she can't read the nuances just yet. It would be devastating to her attempts if people ignored her and she didn't know why. She can't crack that code yet.
When it's just the two of you, try this..."Hey, it's awesome that you're broadening your social circle. How do you think people would respond if you backed off on the lectures? Why don't you try that and see how it goes?" You're teaching her to read social cues.
posted by 26.2 at 2:04 PM on April 22, 2011
It's interesting to me how people read this through the lens of their own experience; I'm going, "Well THAT would never work ..." on ones that obviously worked for other people. :)
I also agree with gentle-but-direct is the way to go, and I mean REALLY direct. I have been close to two people, in particular, who do this, and neither was able to take a social hint OR a redirect. (So when I read any that suggest hinting or redirecting, I think, "Well, THAT would never work ..." but I'm sure on some people it does!) I think being direct is hard because you're probably fairly socially sensitive and it's hard to be direct about something that might hurt someone, but if they are like my know-it-alls, if you are indirect, they will not get it.
With one person, I finally was bluntly honest about the lecturing being inappropriate for social settings and how it took the fun out of things for other people and really didn't make him look smart; it made him seem obnoxious and clueless. Once I was direct and it was out there, THEN we were able to slightly joke about it but before that it hurt his feelings. If we're at the same event and he starts up with the lecturing, he asks me to nudge him or step on his foot or give him a dirty look, and with close friends I can say, "I think class is over for the evening, professor" or something and he apologizes for getting too nerded out.
He also has a hard time telling when people are asking socially polite questions and when they're asking genuine interest questions, so I helped him think of strategies for when someone asks him about his (for example) bird-watching hobby. We came up with an "elevator speech," where he says some variation of, "Yeah, I love being outdoors and I think finding different species appeals to my nerdy need to categorize and complete things, and I've really enjoyed meeting other people doing it." If pressed he has a second short anecdote about the coolest bird-watching moment he ever had, and then tries to turn the conversation back on the other person. If pressed again, he will say something like, "Well, I don't want to derail the conversation and bore anybody with bird-watching details ..." and then either gets a go-ahead from a group of equally nerdy people to get his lecture on, or offers to have lunch later in the week or gives his e-mail address to someone who seems to want to learn more, or whatever. With these "rules" in place he does better with an interaction he has a hard time understanding; it doesn't make sense to him why someone would ask a question just to be polite, since he only asks questions when he actually wants the information. (The flip side is he is also getting better at asking socially-polite questions of other people about their children or whatever, even if he does not actually desire this information.)
With it more under control people are more willing to forgive him when he DOES nerd out and get lecturey; now it's an amusing personality quirk rather than an intolerably annoying pattern of behavior.
The other person close to me who did this ended up a lost cause who alienated all her friends. When I and a couple of others attempted gentle directness when she mentioned frustration with constantly losing friends and having trouble connecting, she informed us that of course we were wrong, everyone loved to listen to her talk. (!!!) And proceeded to lecture us on why people needed constant correcting so they wouldn't be wrong about things anymore and they'd know more about things they didn't know about. She had no sense of the rhythms of conversation and would constantly interrupt others but when interrupted herself (often by people trying to rescue the conversation), she would wrench it back to her lecture. She was just such a blunt instrument, you know? People put up with it for a while, but she ended up losing most of her friends in my social circle when she decided to start lecturing everyone on how they should be parenting their children and how they were doing pregnancy wrong and so forth; there are some kinds of being rude that you can't really come back from, I guess.
I actually know a lot of people who act like this because I know a lot of litigators; many of them are unable to turn off the litigating and act like every conversation is a contest to be won, and there's this thing a lot of them do I call the "litigator's trick": They only breathe in odd places SO YOU CANNOT EVER INTERRUPT THEM. They don't breathe at the ends of sentences or at places for natural pauses because they've learned if they barrel through to the next thought, nobody will jump in, and they take gasping breaths in odd places mid-sentence where nobody's prepared to jump in. It can paralyze an entire room of otherwise-assertive adults who feel too awkward to interrupt this kind of thing. On the one hand it's amusing if you're watching for it; on the other hand it makes the lecturing go on forEVER. So it could be way worse?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:04 PM on April 22, 2011 [18 favorites]
I also agree with gentle-but-direct is the way to go, and I mean REALLY direct. I have been close to two people, in particular, who do this, and neither was able to take a social hint OR a redirect. (So when I read any that suggest hinting or redirecting, I think, "Well, THAT would never work ..." but I'm sure on some people it does!) I think being direct is hard because you're probably fairly socially sensitive and it's hard to be direct about something that might hurt someone, but if they are like my know-it-alls, if you are indirect, they will not get it.
With one person, I finally was bluntly honest about the lecturing being inappropriate for social settings and how it took the fun out of things for other people and really didn't make him look smart; it made him seem obnoxious and clueless. Once I was direct and it was out there, THEN we were able to slightly joke about it but before that it hurt his feelings. If we're at the same event and he starts up with the lecturing, he asks me to nudge him or step on his foot or give him a dirty look, and with close friends I can say, "I think class is over for the evening, professor" or something and he apologizes for getting too nerded out.
He also has a hard time telling when people are asking socially polite questions and when they're asking genuine interest questions, so I helped him think of strategies for when someone asks him about his (for example) bird-watching hobby. We came up with an "elevator speech," where he says some variation of, "Yeah, I love being outdoors and I think finding different species appeals to my nerdy need to categorize and complete things, and I've really enjoyed meeting other people doing it." If pressed he has a second short anecdote about the coolest bird-watching moment he ever had, and then tries to turn the conversation back on the other person. If pressed again, he will say something like, "Well, I don't want to derail the conversation and bore anybody with bird-watching details ..." and then either gets a go-ahead from a group of equally nerdy people to get his lecture on, or offers to have lunch later in the week or gives his e-mail address to someone who seems to want to learn more, or whatever. With these "rules" in place he does better with an interaction he has a hard time understanding; it doesn't make sense to him why someone would ask a question just to be polite, since he only asks questions when he actually wants the information. (The flip side is he is also getting better at asking socially-polite questions of other people about their children or whatever, even if he does not actually desire this information.)
With it more under control people are more willing to forgive him when he DOES nerd out and get lecturey; now it's an amusing personality quirk rather than an intolerably annoying pattern of behavior.
The other person close to me who did this ended up a lost cause who alienated all her friends. When I and a couple of others attempted gentle directness when she mentioned frustration with constantly losing friends and having trouble connecting, she informed us that of course we were wrong, everyone loved to listen to her talk. (!!!) And proceeded to lecture us on why people needed constant correcting so they wouldn't be wrong about things anymore and they'd know more about things they didn't know about. She had no sense of the rhythms of conversation and would constantly interrupt others but when interrupted herself (often by people trying to rescue the conversation), she would wrench it back to her lecture. She was just such a blunt instrument, you know? People put up with it for a while, but she ended up losing most of her friends in my social circle when she decided to start lecturing everyone on how they should be parenting their children and how they were doing pregnancy wrong and so forth; there are some kinds of being rude that you can't really come back from, I guess.
I actually know a lot of people who act like this because I know a lot of litigators; many of them are unable to turn off the litigating and act like every conversation is a contest to be won, and there's this thing a lot of them do I call the "litigator's trick": They only breathe in odd places SO YOU CANNOT EVER INTERRUPT THEM. They don't breathe at the ends of sentences or at places for natural pauses because they've learned if they barrel through to the next thought, nobody will jump in, and they take gasping breaths in odd places mid-sentence where nobody's prepared to jump in. It can paralyze an entire room of otherwise-assertive adults who feel too awkward to interrupt this kind of thing. On the one hand it's amusing if you're watching for it; on the other hand it makes the lecturing go on forEVER. So it could be way worse?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:04 PM on April 22, 2011 [18 favorites]
Maybe introduce her to the Socratic method?
Oh my, no. If you think a corrective lecture is a conversation killer, I don't think a series of leading questions is going to get it over with any faster.
posted by RobotHero at 2:22 PM on April 22, 2011
Oh my, no. If you think a corrective lecture is a conversation killer, I don't think a series of leading questions is going to get it over with any faster.
posted by RobotHero at 2:22 PM on April 22, 2011
For what it's worth, I do this when I'm relaxed. When I'm nervous around people I don't talk at all so that I don't accidentally say anything awkward. Knowing that I'm doing it absolutely stops me, but people don't really like the creepy nervous silent person any better.
I think I do it for two reasons. One, I do love facts and making sure things are correct. It's nothing personal. If I goof and realize it, I'll happily stop in the middle of my sentence and go back and correct myself. This is usually short, like a sentence or two, and the best way to deal is to just roll with it.
Two, sometimes people talk for an agonizingly long time about things which are really boring to me. When they mention something (however tangentially) which is interesting to me I jump on it before I remember that they don't care about it. That one is personal, but if you both go on a lot about things which aren't mutually interesting, well......
posted by anaelith at 4:29 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think I do it for two reasons. One, I do love facts and making sure things are correct. It's nothing personal. If I goof and realize it, I'll happily stop in the middle of my sentence and go back and correct myself. This is usually short, like a sentence or two, and the best way to deal is to just roll with it.
Two, sometimes people talk for an agonizingly long time about things which are really boring to me. When they mention something (however tangentially) which is interesting to me I jump on it before I remember that they don't care about it. That one is personal, but if you both go on a lot about things which aren't mutually interesting, well......
posted by anaelith at 4:29 PM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think something more roundabout might be more effective. Something really sarcastic -- "Okay, I'll stop telling my joke now so you can instruct us on the nuances of [whatever it is]. You done? Okay, where was I ... Oh, never mind.
Oh god, no. No no no. Do not do this. This is not sarcasm. This is passive aggression. If you really, really want to embarrass your friend and make her feel like utter crap, this is a great way to do it.
posted by palomar at 4:16 PM on April 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh god, no. No no no. Do not do this. This is not sarcasm. This is passive aggression. If you really, really want to embarrass your friend and make her feel like utter crap, this is a great way to do it.
posted by palomar at 4:16 PM on April 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
A few people mentioned tv shows and I thought I'd add a vote for Bones. It's a crime drama about a forensic anthropologist named Temperance Brennan, her lab team and an FBI agent. She's portrayed as brilliant but prone to stepping in just the kind of conversational quicksand that you described. It's from a place of being "the best kind of correct" rather than snark and with the same lack of social awareness.
One reason this might be helpful is that she's a positive character, not just the "pedantic, rude scientist" stereotype. Through the seasons of the show she's evolved along with a charming cast of friends that care about her--in the same way that you'd like to support your friend. Perhaps if she identifies with Brennan's speeches and corrections then sees her evolution toward sympathy it would be a subtle way for you to broach the topic.
posted by brism at 4:18 PM on April 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
One reason this might be helpful is that she's a positive character, not just the "pedantic, rude scientist" stereotype. Through the seasons of the show she's evolved along with a charming cast of friends that care about her--in the same way that you'd like to support your friend. Perhaps if she identifies with Brennan's speeches and corrections then sees her evolution toward sympathy it would be a subtle way for you to broach the topic.
posted by brism at 4:18 PM on April 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Alternately: watch Big Bang Theory and point out what a pain Sheldon is, even when he's right. It's played for laughs on that show but it's a great example of someone doing that and how it's annoying though not a dealbreaker in his social circle.
posted by jessamyn at 11:05 AM on April 22, 2011 [24 favorites]