Wife mistrust me, what do I do?
April 20, 2011 4:31 AM Subscribe
Wife mistrusts me now over a single comment, and thinks I'm withholding family information. What should I do?
Wife and I have been married over 20 years. She's had a dicey relationship with my family, cordial but always suspect. My mom and dad have been manipulative in the past of me and the two other brothers. Sometimes, my dad would hide information, asking the brothers not to tell anyone. I would tell my wife anyway.
This weekend, I let slip to my wife that I learned two weeks ago one of my brothers had separated from his wife. She asked me why I hadn't told her sooner and I said that he (my brother) asked me not to tell anyone (which is true).
Now, my wife is angry and bitter at me. She feels that she's been left out and will always be left out of "the family". She thinks she's just "the son's wife" and not a part of the family. And in her mind this has been a pattern of hiding information from her by me (it has not).
I have no idea where this came from. I've tried to apologize, to make amens, but now all I can do is sit quietly and wait for the storm to pass. I also feel angry that she could lose so much faith and trust in me over what is essentially a piece of gossip. And I'm sad that she can't forgive me for not cluing her in on this piece of news.
I'm torn about my next step. Part of me wants to let things cool off then try to move forward, treating this as low that's part of the highs. Part of me wants to confront the situation and try to come to a resolution, trying to "fix" the situation and get back to what was normal (typical guy response). The majority of me is just stunned.
What hurts the most is that this is totally out of the blue. Our relationship has been strong and getting stronger. She survived a near-death experience a year ago and we've done very well until now.
So, what do I do next?
Wife and I have been married over 20 years. She's had a dicey relationship with my family, cordial but always suspect. My mom and dad have been manipulative in the past of me and the two other brothers. Sometimes, my dad would hide information, asking the brothers not to tell anyone. I would tell my wife anyway.
This weekend, I let slip to my wife that I learned two weeks ago one of my brothers had separated from his wife. She asked me why I hadn't told her sooner and I said that he (my brother) asked me not to tell anyone (which is true).
Now, my wife is angry and bitter at me. She feels that she's been left out and will always be left out of "the family". She thinks she's just "the son's wife" and not a part of the family. And in her mind this has been a pattern of hiding information from her by me (it has not).
I have no idea where this came from. I've tried to apologize, to make amens, but now all I can do is sit quietly and wait for the storm to pass. I also feel angry that she could lose so much faith and trust in me over what is essentially a piece of gossip. And I'm sad that she can't forgive me for not cluing her in on this piece of news.
I'm torn about my next step. Part of me wants to let things cool off then try to move forward, treating this as low that's part of the highs. Part of me wants to confront the situation and try to come to a resolution, trying to "fix" the situation and get back to what was normal (typical guy response). The majority of me is just stunned.
What hurts the most is that this is totally out of the blue. Our relationship has been strong and getting stronger. She survived a near-death experience a year ago and we've done very well until now.
So, what do I do next?
This is not about one comment, it never is.
Big picture, she wants to be closer with your family and feels left out.
Spend some time encouraging your family to include her in emails about nothing.
My wife comes from a very small family which are mostly out of town. She felt left out of my family too. When my dad sends me internet funnies, I remind him to include her on the jokes. When my mom sends me family status emails about who's getting married, etc... I remind her to include my wife.
Simple things like that could go a long way into making her feel more included in your side of the family.
posted by j03 at 4:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [21 favorites]
Big picture, she wants to be closer with your family and feels left out.
Spend some time encouraging your family to include her in emails about nothing.
My wife comes from a very small family which are mostly out of town. She felt left out of my family too. When my dad sends me internet funnies, I remind him to include her on the jokes. When my mom sends me family status emails about who's getting married, etc... I remind her to include my wife.
Simple things like that could go a long way into making her feel more included in your side of the family.
posted by j03 at 4:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [21 favorites]
No this is not out of the blue, this is the straw that broke the camel's back, it's the one small thing that tipped her interior mental balance and she's lashed out.
You think it is this one thing, it's not, it's the accumulation of all these one things that she has observed in the past.
I see why you are upset but I can also see why someone outside your particular family set-up, yet married into it, would have been keeping a mental tally, hoping against hope that the direction of travel was towards you two essentailly disenagaging more and more from the manipulations you describe and forming a solid wall of unity in the face of it.
The near death experience has only high-lighted the fact that that doesn't appear to have solidified the way you think it has in 20 years.
20 years, I'm with Mr Wilder 27years, married 21, his mother has tried to break us up each one of those years, she literally flew in from Germany to stop us getting engaged (we were very young I understand it better now) but we have developed a common strategy of dealing with the manipulation. Your wife is feeling you two haven't.
posted by Wilder at 4:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
You think it is this one thing, it's not, it's the accumulation of all these one things that she has observed in the past.
I see why you are upset but I can also see why someone outside your particular family set-up, yet married into it, would have been keeping a mental tally, hoping against hope that the direction of travel was towards you two essentailly disenagaging more and more from the manipulations you describe and forming a solid wall of unity in the face of it.
The near death experience has only high-lighted the fact that that doesn't appear to have solidified the way you think it has in 20 years.
20 years, I'm with Mr Wilder 27years, married 21, his mother has tried to break us up each one of those years, she literally flew in from Germany to stop us getting engaged (we were very young I understand it better now) but we have developed a common strategy of dealing with the manipulation. Your wife is feeling you two haven't.
posted by Wilder at 4:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [7 favorites]
I understand that if I tell X something, X will tell Y, X's spouse. There are very few exceptions to this, I can't think of any right now. The reason being is because X & Y are spouses. As long as you don't get that for yourself (sorry, Bob, please don't ask me to keep a secret from Alyssa - or - I won't tell anyone except Alyssa), then Alyssa knows you don't get it, and it puts her on the out with you from ANYONE who asks you to keep a secret, that usually being your family or friends.
Am I making sense? No secrets from your partner. Let your family and friends know if they want a secret kept and you are not allowed to tell her, then they shouldn't tell you.
It's a thing some people do. Not all of them. It seems like a thing your wife would like.
posted by b33j at 4:44 AM on April 20, 2011 [23 favorites]
Am I making sense? No secrets from your partner. Let your family and friends know if they want a secret kept and you are not allowed to tell her, then they shouldn't tell you.
It's a thing some people do. Not all of them. It seems like a thing your wife would like.
posted by b33j at 4:44 AM on April 20, 2011 [23 favorites]
Seconding b33j on keeping no secrets from your partner. Not even family gossip. Hell, in your case, especially not family gossip, since your wife has a history of feeling left out of your family.
If you think you can come to agree with this position, apologize and explain the change of heart to your wife, and then make good on it in the future. In that way you can begin to rebuild the trust she's lost in you.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 4:47 AM on April 20, 2011
If you think you can come to agree with this position, apologize and explain the change of heart to your wife, and then make good on it in the future. In that way you can begin to rebuild the trust she's lost in you.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 4:47 AM on April 20, 2011
This is not at all helpful for the "feeling left out of the family" part, but to address the "pattern of hiding information" fear:
If you found it difficult to keep this secret from your wife, if you were constantly thinking "I wish I could talk about this with my wife!", and generally wanted to share it with her, you should tell her that.
posted by coffeepot at 4:49 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
If you found it difficult to keep this secret from your wife, if you were constantly thinking "I wish I could talk about this with my wife!", and generally wanted to share it with her, you should tell her that.
posted by coffeepot at 4:49 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
If this really is the one and only time you have kept a family confidence from your wife then this is a very strong and unusual reaction. Is there really no chance your past actions could be interpreted by her as secretive?
Try to review your relationship with your family from your wife's perspective. Perhaps you are guilty of accidentally reinforcing this 'outsider' feeling that is clearly eating at your wife. Consider how you can include her on a more intimate level in your family life.
And of course, as others have said and as you yourself recognise, there can be no more family secrets between you. Hopefully, this won't mean you have to choose between your family and your wife, but your wife really ought to come first if it comes to it.
posted by londonmark at 4:52 AM on April 20, 2011
Try to review your relationship with your family from your wife's perspective. Perhaps you are guilty of accidentally reinforcing this 'outsider' feeling that is clearly eating at your wife. Consider how you can include her on a more intimate level in your family life.
And of course, as others have said and as you yourself recognise, there can be no more family secrets between you. Hopefully, this won't mean you have to choose between your family and your wife, but your wife really ought to come first if it comes to it.
posted by londonmark at 4:52 AM on April 20, 2011
Sitting quietly and waiting for the storm to pass is only the first step. Don't let it be the only step you take. For now, just be kind to her and do not discuss this. When you and she have both thoroughly calmed down, talk this out with mutual respect. When you get angry, take a break. Do not forge ahead while you are angry.
The blame she's aiming at you may not be justified, but her feelings are as real as yours are. Take them seriously.
posted by jon1270 at 4:53 AM on April 20, 2011
The blame she's aiming at you may not be justified, but her feelings are as real as yours are. Take them seriously.
posted by jon1270 at 4:53 AM on April 20, 2011
I reread your question and I maligned you unfairly. You don't normally hide information from your wife / keep secrets / place your family over her. I'm sorry for my last answer.
What should you do?
I guess I would suggest that the pair of you really talk this through. Some people find therapists to be helpful in directing the talk. Maybe try this:
Honey, let's please take some time to talk about this situation. I value you and 9 times out of 10 I tell you everything, just this time, because Z is my brother and you know he and I are close, and to be honest, I didn't think it was very important, I didn't pass the information on to you. Now, I'm prepared to listen while you tell me exactly why (if she hasn't already, or if she has, to explain until I understand) what I did hurt you. I promise to listen carefully, and when I speak, it will not be to defend myself, but to ask you questions so that I can understand better how you need our relationship to be.
posted by b33j at 5:13 AM on April 20, 2011
What should you do?
I guess I would suggest that the pair of you really talk this through. Some people find therapists to be helpful in directing the talk. Maybe try this:
Honey, let's please take some time to talk about this situation. I value you and 9 times out of 10 I tell you everything, just this time, because Z is my brother and you know he and I are close, and to be honest, I didn't think it was very important, I didn't pass the information on to you. Now, I'm prepared to listen while you tell me exactly why (if she hasn't already, or if she has, to explain until I understand) what I did hurt you. I promise to listen carefully, and when I speak, it will not be to defend myself, but to ask you questions so that I can understand better how you need our relationship to be.
posted by b33j at 5:13 AM on April 20, 2011
I find I generally agree with what everyone above posted, but I feel there's more to it. For one, if she has been distrustful of your family (I assume for 20 years now) why is she so concerned about feeling part of it? What is her family like? Does she have a history of feeling excluded in other situations? Has she ever excluded anyone? Kept information from anyone?
If this is the first time something like this occurred, why does she think it's the rule and not the exception? Can she point to other times you did this? Or even just other times she felt excluded from your family where you didn't make sufficient effort to fix it?
Lastly, does she know how much it hurts you for her to think about you this way? Does she feel your apology isn't sincere? Why can't she forgive you? In effect, she has now become the excluder (of you) taking control instead of being the helpless (as one is helpless against death) excludee. She may need to tolerate that feeling of helplessness (not easy to do) to move on.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:14 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
If this is the first time something like this occurred, why does she think it's the rule and not the exception? Can she point to other times you did this? Or even just other times she felt excluded from your family where you didn't make sufficient effort to fix it?
Lastly, does she know how much it hurts you for her to think about you this way? Does she feel your apology isn't sincere? Why can't she forgive you? In effect, she has now become the excluder (of you) taking control instead of being the helpless (as one is helpless against death) excludee. She may need to tolerate that feeling of helplessness (not easy to do) to move on.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:14 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
"Is there really no chance your past actions could be interpreted by her as secretive? Try to review your relationship with your family from your wife's perspective."
Perhaps you just don't normally keep a mental catalog of family happenings ("gossip") and so routinely fail to pass on tidbits of news that your family doesn't bother to tell HER because she's an outsider -- niece Sarah lost her first tooth, uncle Owen is thinking about retiring, etc. -- and so she's had, multiple times, the unpleasant experience of learning about three-month-old news that YOU were told but SHE never found out at family gatherings where everyone is talking about it but her. It's not an uncommon dynamic for men to forget to pass on these little tidbits to their wives, and for other family members to expect the wife to know these things (women being the social directors in most families) and to act like the wife is rude, snobbish, or uninterested in the family when the wife, through no fault of her own, doesn't know these things already.
HOWEVER, don't don't DON'T dismiss this as something you "didn't think was very important." Failing to mention the breakup of a sibling's marriage is up there with failing to mention a family birth or a family death. There is no universe in which she'll accept an excuse of "I didn't think it was very important."
I think it's quite likely that there's a history of you not passing on family tidbits that AREN'T really that important, and that she's been irritated (but not mad) about it for years because it's awkward for her, but she knows you don't pay a lot of attention to that stuff. Then along comes something HUGE like the breakup of a marriage, and you don't tell her, and then you "let it slip" and excuse yourself by saying your brother told you not to tell -- it's hard for her to read that as anything other than an admission that your loyalty lies with your birth family, not with her, which in retrospect throws any past failures to share truly unimportant information into stark relief where it's a deliberate pattern of leaving her out rather than absentmindedness.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [21 favorites]
Perhaps you just don't normally keep a mental catalog of family happenings ("gossip") and so routinely fail to pass on tidbits of news that your family doesn't bother to tell HER because she's an outsider -- niece Sarah lost her first tooth, uncle Owen is thinking about retiring, etc. -- and so she's had, multiple times, the unpleasant experience of learning about three-month-old news that YOU were told but SHE never found out at family gatherings where everyone is talking about it but her. It's not an uncommon dynamic for men to forget to pass on these little tidbits to their wives, and for other family members to expect the wife to know these things (women being the social directors in most families) and to act like the wife is rude, snobbish, or uninterested in the family when the wife, through no fault of her own, doesn't know these things already.
HOWEVER, don't don't DON'T dismiss this as something you "didn't think was very important." Failing to mention the breakup of a sibling's marriage is up there with failing to mention a family birth or a family death. There is no universe in which she'll accept an excuse of "I didn't think it was very important."
I think it's quite likely that there's a history of you not passing on family tidbits that AREN'T really that important, and that she's been irritated (but not mad) about it for years because it's awkward for her, but she knows you don't pay a lot of attention to that stuff. Then along comes something HUGE like the breakup of a marriage, and you don't tell her, and then you "let it slip" and excuse yourself by saying your brother told you not to tell -- it's hard for her to read that as anything other than an admission that your loyalty lies with your birth family, not with her, which in retrospect throws any past failures to share truly unimportant information into stark relief where it's a deliberate pattern of leaving her out rather than absentmindedness.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [21 favorites]
to her point a lot of women get angry because their husband's seem to still be mama's boy, and will do whatever their mom tells them to. this may just be that "straw that broke the camels back" thing.
Technically you are at fault here, your actions up to this point (letting yourself be manipulated well into being an adult, not to mention your marriage, by your parents) have led to her being angry over an event that you see as non sequiter. I would wait a few days, apologize and admit that you understand this isn't the issue and it's a greater family issue.
there's no right solution to where to go, but you need to stop being manipulated by your parents, or anyone for that matter, that's just not healthy.
posted by zombieApoc at 5:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Technically you are at fault here, your actions up to this point (letting yourself be manipulated well into being an adult, not to mention your marriage, by your parents) have led to her being angry over an event that you see as non sequiter. I would wait a few days, apologize and admit that you understand this isn't the issue and it's a greater family issue.
there's no right solution to where to go, but you need to stop being manipulated by your parents, or anyone for that matter, that's just not healthy.
posted by zombieApoc at 5:39 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
So, what do I do next?
Ask her to talk and then be quiet an listen.
This isn't about one comment, it's about years of having to deal of supposedly being part of a family, but being constantly reminded she isn't. There are probably feelings of living a lie, putting on a fake front, that no matter how good things get, even if the "... relationship has been strong and getting stronger," she'll always be left out in some way.
Also, the only thing you shouldn't tell your SO of 20 years is that secret surprise gift/party/sexual device.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:53 AM on April 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
Ask her to talk and then be quiet an listen.
This isn't about one comment, it's about years of having to deal of supposedly being part of a family, but being constantly reminded she isn't. There are probably feelings of living a lie, putting on a fake front, that no matter how good things get, even if the "... relationship has been strong and getting stronger," she'll always be left out in some way.
Also, the only thing you shouldn't tell your SO of 20 years is that secret surprise gift/party/sexual device.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:53 AM on April 20, 2011 [3 favorites]
I would calmly confront it and come to a solution - this of course isn't about this single incident, and this incident won't be the last you hear of it and it's not going to get better on its own. This situation was already there, you just didn't realize it.
I would tell her how you feel about her reaction - that you are hurt and angry and sad. And then ask her what she needs from you to work through this issue. I would straight up ask her what incidents in the past have upset her and how you can move forward in a positive direction. And don't let it linger on this one issue - you've apologized and are trying to actively work on correcting it, you don't need hours of go rounds about how you didn't tell her your brother was separated.
You aren't responsible for how your family acts, but you are responsible for how you act. Personally, I don't buy the share absolutely everything with your spouse idea, but maybe when it comes to family matters you need to adopt that policy and tell your wife and your family that that's just how it is.
posted by mrs. taters at 5:55 AM on April 20, 2011
I would tell her how you feel about her reaction - that you are hurt and angry and sad. And then ask her what she needs from you to work through this issue. I would straight up ask her what incidents in the past have upset her and how you can move forward in a positive direction. And don't let it linger on this one issue - you've apologized and are trying to actively work on correcting it, you don't need hours of go rounds about how you didn't tell her your brother was separated.
You aren't responsible for how your family acts, but you are responsible for how you act. Personally, I don't buy the share absolutely everything with your spouse idea, but maybe when it comes to family matters you need to adopt that policy and tell your wife and your family that that's just how it is.
posted by mrs. taters at 5:55 AM on April 20, 2011
I'm thinking of a different angle - separation/divorce affects everybody in the family, not just the couple. One that close, your brother, your immediate family - hits very close to home. She may be reacting out of fear of the change that it will bring in your family dynamic and what it means to her. She may be focusing on the fact that the information was withheld from her, when really it is the whole can of worms.
posted by molasses at 6:13 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by molasses at 6:13 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Families are difficult. My wife for years was always upset with me and how I reacted to my family - standoffish and always looking for the conspiracy. She comes from a tight-nit family that is very close. My family is 'close' in the big Spanish family way - cousins, aunts, uncle always growing up got together for holidays and other events. But always somewhat constructed.
My mother can be very manipulative, and I always tried to tell my wife that, but she'd hear nothing of it and blame me, mostly. But then she started to see for herself - it took about 10 years.
So, you're dealing with a couple things here. One, your perception of your family. Two, her experiences with her family, and what her relationship with them is like, and then projecting that onto how her relationship with your family is supposed to work. Also, how do you react in supporting her (or not) with/against your family and their actions?
As other people said, it's not the one thing you kept from her about the separation. It's bigger than that.
A final piece of the puzzle is your relationship together.. you say 'it's been getting stronger' - so was there a period she was worried (rightly or not) you were keeping things from her?
In any case, I think she's overreacting. I also don't agree that you need to share everything with your wife. But there's something more going on here.
posted by rich at 6:17 AM on April 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
My mother can be very manipulative, and I always tried to tell my wife that, but she'd hear nothing of it and blame me, mostly. But then she started to see for herself - it took about 10 years.
So, you're dealing with a couple things here. One, your perception of your family. Two, her experiences with her family, and what her relationship with them is like, and then projecting that onto how her relationship with your family is supposed to work. Also, how do you react in supporting her (or not) with/against your family and their actions?
As other people said, it's not the one thing you kept from her about the separation. It's bigger than that.
A final piece of the puzzle is your relationship together.. you say 'it's been getting stronger' - so was there a period she was worried (rightly or not) you were keeping things from her?
In any case, I think she's overreacting. I also don't agree that you need to share everything with your wife. But there's something more going on here.
posted by rich at 6:17 AM on April 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
The OP is at fault? For not blabbing about something someone specifically asked them to keep on the DL? That the wife doesn't have any need to know at the present time? Wow.
My SO knows things immediately when I remember to tell her and nobody has asked me to keep quiet about it or that thing directly affects her. I expect her to keep other people's confidences just as well as I do, just as she would keep something I told her in confidence close to the vest. If she didn't, how could I possibly trust her with deeply personal things?
If I were in your shoes, OP, I would explain what happened and why, and give her time to adjust to the "new" reality. If she doesn't like it, well, there's lots of things in a relationship people don't like. Part of being in a relationship is learning to live with your partner's quirks. (The other part is being willing to change when reasonable)
I guess for some people, their relationship with their SO is the only one in their life. In my case, it's by far the most important, but I still pride myself on being a trustworthy friend, so if I tell someone I won't tell other people, that includes my SO. If I feel like there's a strong chance whatever information I'm about to be told would be something I'd feel obligated to tell my SO, I tell someone I probably can't keep what's coming a secret and let them decide if they still want to tell me.
I agree that it sounds like this isn't at all what it sounds like it's about. Perhaps it is indeed about her relationship with your family, but perhaps it's about her not trusting you for some other reason? If she trusted you, she wouldn't care what secrets you were keeping, because she would trust that they're not things she actually needs to know about.
posted by wierdo at 6:41 AM on April 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
My SO knows things immediately when I remember to tell her and nobody has asked me to keep quiet about it or that thing directly affects her. I expect her to keep other people's confidences just as well as I do, just as she would keep something I told her in confidence close to the vest. If she didn't, how could I possibly trust her with deeply personal things?
If I were in your shoes, OP, I would explain what happened and why, and give her time to adjust to the "new" reality. If she doesn't like it, well, there's lots of things in a relationship people don't like. Part of being in a relationship is learning to live with your partner's quirks. (The other part is being willing to change when reasonable)
I guess for some people, their relationship with their SO is the only one in their life. In my case, it's by far the most important, but I still pride myself on being a trustworthy friend, so if I tell someone I won't tell other people, that includes my SO. If I feel like there's a strong chance whatever information I'm about to be told would be something I'd feel obligated to tell my SO, I tell someone I probably can't keep what's coming a secret and let them decide if they still want to tell me.
I agree that it sounds like this isn't at all what it sounds like it's about. Perhaps it is indeed about her relationship with your family, but perhaps it's about her not trusting you for some other reason? If she trusted you, she wouldn't care what secrets you were keeping, because she would trust that they're not things she actually needs to know about.
posted by wierdo at 6:41 AM on April 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
The OP is at fault? For not blabbing about something someone specifically asked them to keep on the DL? That the wife doesn't have any need to know at the present time? Wow.
Trying to find fault isn't going to help the situation, because that means one of them has to win and one has to lose. That's not good in a relationship.
And if you can't trust your SO to keep secret about things or even talk about stuff, a lot of people question being in a relationship with that person. It's just a way of running a relationship that is different from yours. Doesn't make either right or wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:03 AM on April 20, 2011
Trying to find fault isn't going to help the situation, because that means one of them has to win and one has to lose. That's not good in a relationship.
And if you can't trust your SO to keep secret about things or even talk about stuff, a lot of people question being in a relationship with that person. It's just a way of running a relationship that is different from yours. Doesn't make either right or wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:03 AM on April 20, 2011
I'm with wierdo. If I was told not to say anything, I would "not say anything." Even to my spouse. I think she needs to trust that you will tell her anything she needs to know, but if it is not a time sensitive item and have been asked to keep it quiet, that you may not tell her.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:03 AM on April 20, 2011
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:03 AM on April 20, 2011
I'm with wierdo. If I was told not to say anything, I would "not say anything." Even to my spouse. I think she needs to trust that you will tell her anything she needs to know, but if it is not a time sensitive item and have been asked to keep it quiet, that you may not tell her.
Even if that's the dynamic that the wife here understood and agreed to and was on board with (which isn't obvious because, as seen in this thread, it's by no means the default/conventional partner dynamic), that just reinforces the wife's original problem.
OP's brother wanted to share news with him, and not with his wife. OP's brother was excluding OP's wife from important family news. OP's brother feels that OP's wife isn't as central or core to the family as OP. So if that's what she's upset about, her perception is absolutely correct.
posted by Salamandrous at 7:22 AM on April 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
Even if that's the dynamic that the wife here understood and agreed to and was on board with (which isn't obvious because, as seen in this thread, it's by no means the default/conventional partner dynamic), that just reinforces the wife's original problem.
OP's brother wanted to share news with him, and not with his wife. OP's brother was excluding OP's wife from important family news. OP's brother feels that OP's wife isn't as central or core to the family as OP. So if that's what she's upset about, her perception is absolutely correct.
posted by Salamandrous at 7:22 AM on April 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
Wife mistrusts me now over a single comment
The subtext of this is that she's being silly and it's unfair, but unless she's a silly, unfair person, that's probably not the case, so whatever mental picture you have in your head about your relationship with your wife and your family dynamic, she doesn't have the same picture in her head. She's sees something else.
So you need to really find out what it looks like to her and why -- and it doesn't mean your picture is false or her picture is false. It's not like both agreeing the sky is blue or something -- it's not a matter of fact. You both pick details and draw conclusions and came up with different ones, so I think you need a clearer idea of what she sees and how she got there.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:34 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
The subtext of this is that she's being silly and it's unfair, but unless she's a silly, unfair person, that's probably not the case, so whatever mental picture you have in your head about your relationship with your wife and your family dynamic, she doesn't have the same picture in her head. She's sees something else.
So you need to really find out what it looks like to her and why -- and it doesn't mean your picture is false or her picture is false. It's not like both agreeing the sky is blue or something -- it's not a matter of fact. You both pick details and draw conclusions and came up with different ones, so I think you need a clearer idea of what she sees and how she got there.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:34 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
How would you feel if your wife kept something like that from you for two weeks?
posted by eggyolk at 7:44 AM on April 20, 2011
posted by eggyolk at 7:44 AM on April 20, 2011
She might be upset because she was at a social disadvantage in your family. She probably worries about saying the wrong thing to your relatives and had you not told her about your brother's separation, she could have unknowingly hurt him or embarrassed herself in conversation.
I would talk to her about why she feels she isn't part of the family and what specifically she doesn't feel involved in. Come up with ways to include her.
posted by amicamentis at 7:53 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
I would talk to her about why she feels she isn't part of the family and what specifically she doesn't feel involved in. Come up with ways to include her.
posted by amicamentis at 7:53 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
She's angry, but that really means that she's hurt. She feels left out of your family somehow. And I highly doubt it's over this one comment. It's probably a build up over time and you likely had almost nothing to do with what came before.
Make it clear to her you can't fix the wrongs of the past, but you can control what you do in the future.
Just let her know you'll keep her in the loop on these things in the future and wait for this to blow over. That's really all you can do unless there is more to her anger than you've divulged here.
Be sure to let your side of the family know that things mentioned to you in confidence will be divulged to your wife. If they don't understand that, that's on them.
posted by PsuDab93 at 8:19 AM on April 20, 2011
Make it clear to her you can't fix the wrongs of the past, but you can control what you do in the future.
Just let her know you'll keep her in the loop on these things in the future and wait for this to blow over. That's really all you can do unless there is more to her anger than you've divulged here.
Be sure to let your side of the family know that things mentioned to you in confidence will be divulged to your wife. If they don't understand that, that's on them.
posted by PsuDab93 at 8:19 AM on April 20, 2011
This has happened to me, and furthermore, I know that after 10 years of marriage, my wife is jealous that her mother loved me like a son and her close-knit siblings consider me a brother, while my mother remains more standoffish to her, and my brother is distant with me, so would probably barely recognize her on the street if he saw her. I tell her that we came to our marriage with the families we each grew up with, and I simply got luckier than her when it came to in-law relations.
So in the OP's (and my) defense, I think the relationship between brothers isn't always going to be the same as the relationship between a brother-in-law and sister-in-law. It isn't always unreasonable for one brother to say, "Hey, bro, I've got something embarassing to admit to you, but I don't want anyone else to know, including my sister-in-law." When my brother said that to me, I kept that confidence, not because I wanted to hide a secret from my wife, but because after my brother confided in me, he explicitly said, "tell no one" (my brother hadn't told our parents or anyone else in our family his secret). Furthermore, the secret wasn't any business of my wife's -- nor was it even any business of mine, until my brother felt like unloading on me something that had been bothering him.
To put it another way, I treated my brother's confidential information like office gossip -- if someone tells me a secret about a co-worker and asks me to tell no one else, I don't think I have an obligation to share that secret with my wife. I don't think the situation is necessarily different just because it's a confidence about my brother, as opposed to my co-worker.
That said, for the sake of OP's marriage and his wife's feelings, it may be best, if/when his siblings next say, "Don't tell your wife," to ask, "Why not? She's my wife, and I usually/always share everything with her."
posted by hhc5 at 9:02 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
So in the OP's (and my) defense, I think the relationship between brothers isn't always going to be the same as the relationship between a brother-in-law and sister-in-law. It isn't always unreasonable for one brother to say, "Hey, bro, I've got something embarassing to admit to you, but I don't want anyone else to know, including my sister-in-law." When my brother said that to me, I kept that confidence, not because I wanted to hide a secret from my wife, but because after my brother confided in me, he explicitly said, "tell no one" (my brother hadn't told our parents or anyone else in our family his secret). Furthermore, the secret wasn't any business of my wife's -- nor was it even any business of mine, until my brother felt like unloading on me something that had been bothering him.
To put it another way, I treated my brother's confidential information like office gossip -- if someone tells me a secret about a co-worker and asks me to tell no one else, I don't think I have an obligation to share that secret with my wife. I don't think the situation is necessarily different just because it's a confidence about my brother, as opposed to my co-worker.
That said, for the sake of OP's marriage and his wife's feelings, it may be best, if/when his siblings next say, "Don't tell your wife," to ask, "Why not? She's my wife, and I usually/always share everything with her."
posted by hhc5 at 9:02 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
I understand that the wife is upset at being left out of family inclusions, and as a general day to day communications aspect this is very legitimate reason to be upset.
I also think there are times when some family members confide in other family members with the hope that that confidence is as far as it goes (and this is a legitimate request to make). The OP wrote: (my brother) asked me not to tell anyone. Not: my brother asked me not to tell my wife. There easily could be real, and legitimate reasons the brother did not want other people to know about the separation at this time. And I believe that it was perfectly reasonable for a brother to keep the confidence asked for. It does not seem this was a secret 1) directly affecting the marriage of the OP, or 2) something designed to excluded the OP's wife.
Outside of this, there is a larger issue for your wife in not feeling included, as people have mentioned above, i think the best way to address this is to make sure she is part of the mundane, boring parts of communication. Perhaps she feels excluded because no one from the (outside) family confides in her. Whatever the situation, it may be wise to let this storm pass over, but it is something that you two are going to have to talk honestly and openly about and address and set some acceptable boundaries on. Somewhere between total lock-down and total access. I'm not saying this next part casually as part of the "OMG therapist now!!!" overreaction, but it may help to have a neutral third party, such as a therapist, present when you do have the talk.
posted by edgeways at 9:04 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
I also think there are times when some family members confide in other family members with the hope that that confidence is as far as it goes (and this is a legitimate request to make). The OP wrote: (my brother) asked me not to tell anyone. Not: my brother asked me not to tell my wife. There easily could be real, and legitimate reasons the brother did not want other people to know about the separation at this time. And I believe that it was perfectly reasonable for a brother to keep the confidence asked for. It does not seem this was a secret 1) directly affecting the marriage of the OP, or 2) something designed to excluded the OP's wife.
Outside of this, there is a larger issue for your wife in not feeling included, as people have mentioned above, i think the best way to address this is to make sure she is part of the mundane, boring parts of communication. Perhaps she feels excluded because no one from the (outside) family confides in her. Whatever the situation, it may be wise to let this storm pass over, but it is something that you two are going to have to talk honestly and openly about and address and set some acceptable boundaries on. Somewhere between total lock-down and total access. I'm not saying this next part casually as part of the "OMG therapist now!!!" overreaction, but it may help to have a neutral third party, such as a therapist, present when you do have the talk.
posted by edgeways at 9:04 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
Nthing that you should ALWAYS be handling your family and their shenanigans together with your wife, as a team. Their chosen dynamic is designed to create strife between you and your wife, among other goals, and you should politely decline to participate in their BS at every opportunity.
As for your brother.... Exactly how/why did he expect to keep his failing marriage a secret?? Maybe it was gossiping within the family he was out to avoid, because when spouses break up, people usually notice. Geesh. What a dumb thing to ask you to lie about.
....
Thank your wife for her graciousness towards your family over the years and apologize to her for any time you've tried to be "fair" and "played the middle" between them. Tell your wife you are through playing games on their behalf and you are sorry for every instance when you let your family's childish dynamic effect your marriage.
( I was once married to someone that put his family before me. Our last fight was about his family. I am very happily married to someone else now!)
posted by jbenben at 9:06 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
As for your brother.... Exactly how/why did he expect to keep his failing marriage a secret?? Maybe it was gossiping within the family he was out to avoid, because when spouses break up, people usually notice. Geesh. What a dumb thing to ask you to lie about.
....
Thank your wife for her graciousness towards your family over the years and apologize to her for any time you've tried to be "fair" and "played the middle" between them. Tell your wife you are through playing games on their behalf and you are sorry for every instance when you let your family's childish dynamic effect your marriage.
( I was once married to someone that put his family before me. Our last fight was about his family. I am very happily married to someone else now!)
posted by jbenben at 9:06 AM on April 20, 2011 [2 favorites]
First, I can barely keep track of my own family's relationships, so it's 50-50 about whether I find out about a relationship change and 50-50 whether I think to tell my partner about it. Fortunately for me, my partner is not invested in my family. However, your partner is, and your wife's reaction sounds like it could come from a perception similar to the one jbenben had of her previous spouse. It seems she thinks that you are more part of your family, than her husband.
My recommendation (as experienced with my own 20+ year relationship)
- Don't try to fix it while emotions are high, it almost never works
- Try and figure out exactly what her perception is, this approach depends very much on your wife's personality. A frank open talk works with some people, others require careful listening and observation while skirting about the issue (in order to avoid re-igniting a flare up).
- Do things that show you hear her concerns and are actively trying to fix them. But don't make it "I'm doing this because of this issue", make it "I'm doing this because its the right thing to do".
Good Luck
posted by forforf at 10:28 AM on April 20, 2011
My recommendation (as experienced with my own 20+ year relationship)
- Don't try to fix it while emotions are high, it almost never works
- Try and figure out exactly what her perception is, this approach depends very much on your wife's personality. A frank open talk works with some people, others require careful listening and observation while skirting about the issue (in order to avoid re-igniting a flare up).
- Do things that show you hear her concerns and are actively trying to fix them. But don't make it "I'm doing this because of this issue", make it "I'm doing this because its the right thing to do".
Good Luck
posted by forforf at 10:28 AM on April 20, 2011
I could have been your wife, because I have felt the same way, even though my husband's family are basically nice, friendly people.
The thing is, he used to rarely communicate with his family (I talk to my Mom and Dad all the time), and it bothered me. I just figured that's the way his family was--until I found out the other siblings and their spouses were in contact all the time, family planning get-togethers, and we were "out of the loop". I thought it was because of me, that I was this outsider they didn't want in their close-knit family circle.
The truth is, my spouse is much younger than his siblings (surprise baby) and so he was used to them not being around when he was growing up, while they were used to being in touch with each other. He didn't see a problem with the way things were.
And then there was a death in my husband's family, and the whole dynamic changed. He stepped up and supported them, and was the rock they all relied upon to get through. They realized they were still acting like he was the kid in the family. He came to recognize the importance of communicating with them on a regular basis.
He calls much more often now, and I make sure I am in the loop, too. He still forgets to tell me things--no conspiracy, he really forgets. He forgets a LOT, because he is under a lot of stress at work and this is new for him, so I try to remember that when I get frustrated So I get where your wife is coming from, feeling left out, and I understand where you are coming from too, OP, because you have never intended to exclude her in any way.
But, you know what? The one thing I have NO patience with is what your brother did; one family member telling another, "I am going to share something with you, but DON'T TELL ANYONE."
What?! Look, I know some things are personal and painful, but if this is eating you up enough that you need to share it with me, isn't it unreasonable to then ask me to keep this issue bottled up inside me? Of course I will want to process this with someone close to me, as well, and my spouse is my confidant.
I think telling someone not to tell anyone about a serious issue affecting the entire family ultimately leads to more hurt feelings and drama in the long run. And everything I have seen over the years only reinforces that belief. The secrets ALWAYS come out eventually.
So my instinctive response to 'secrets' like this this would be, "Please don't tell me if you don't want me to discuss this with my spouse."
And I would go and tell your wife, if I were you, that as far as you are concerned there will be no more secrets between the two of you over "family" issues, because OF COURSE she is your family.
That will go a long way towards healing this broken family dynamic you have going on now.
posted by misha at 11:00 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
The thing is, he used to rarely communicate with his family (I talk to my Mom and Dad all the time), and it bothered me. I just figured that's the way his family was--until I found out the other siblings and their spouses were in contact all the time, family planning get-togethers, and we were "out of the loop". I thought it was because of me, that I was this outsider they didn't want in their close-knit family circle.
The truth is, my spouse is much younger than his siblings (surprise baby) and so he was used to them not being around when he was growing up, while they were used to being in touch with each other. He didn't see a problem with the way things were.
And then there was a death in my husband's family, and the whole dynamic changed. He stepped up and supported them, and was the rock they all relied upon to get through. They realized they were still acting like he was the kid in the family. He came to recognize the importance of communicating with them on a regular basis.
He calls much more often now, and I make sure I am in the loop, too. He still forgets to tell me things--no conspiracy, he really forgets. He forgets a LOT, because he is under a lot of stress at work and this is new for him, so I try to remember that when I get frustrated So I get where your wife is coming from, feeling left out, and I understand where you are coming from too, OP, because you have never intended to exclude her in any way.
But, you know what? The one thing I have NO patience with is what your brother did; one family member telling another, "I am going to share something with you, but DON'T TELL ANYONE."
What?! Look, I know some things are personal and painful, but if this is eating you up enough that you need to share it with me, isn't it unreasonable to then ask me to keep this issue bottled up inside me? Of course I will want to process this with someone close to me, as well, and my spouse is my confidant.
I think telling someone not to tell anyone about a serious issue affecting the entire family ultimately leads to more hurt feelings and drama in the long run. And everything I have seen over the years only reinforces that belief. The secrets ALWAYS come out eventually.
So my instinctive response to 'secrets' like this this would be, "Please don't tell me if you don't want me to discuss this with my spouse."
And I would go and tell your wife, if I were you, that as far as you are concerned there will be no more secrets between the two of you over "family" issues, because OF COURSE she is your family.
That will go a long way towards healing this broken family dynamic you have going on now.
posted by misha at 11:00 AM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Having read the rest of the responses, a recurring theme seems to have been that keeping a secret from your wife is necessarily putting your family before your wife. I don't think that's at all the case. Putting your family before your wife is expecting your wife to placate your family while letting them walk all over her. Keeping confidence is orthogonal to the entire issue of your wife's place in your life, unless the same is asked of you for mundane events.
I'm probably an odd duck, thinking that people deserve a bit of space in the immediate aftermath of a traumatic emotional event if they request it. Clearly, such a secret can't be kept forever, but it should be up to the person conveying the information when it's time that everyone should know.
posted by wierdo at 1:08 PM on April 20, 2011
I'm probably an odd duck, thinking that people deserve a bit of space in the immediate aftermath of a traumatic emotional event if they request it. Clearly, such a secret can't be kept forever, but it should be up to the person conveying the information when it's time that everyone should know.
posted by wierdo at 1:08 PM on April 20, 2011
>How would you feel if your wife kept something like that from you for two weeks?
The OP may or may not care whether he is in the loop concerning the doings of his in-laws. It doesn't matter.
Part of being in a successful marriage/LTR is being able to say to yourself, "I know that this isn't a big deal to me, but it is to my spouse/SO, so I'm going to do it because it makes them happy." Provided, of course, that whatever you're being asked to do is not something that requires you to go against your values or belief system.
posted by virago at 1:13 PM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
The OP may or may not care whether he is in the loop concerning the doings of his in-laws. It doesn't matter.
Part of being in a successful marriage/LTR is being able to say to yourself, "I know that this isn't a big deal to me, but it is to my spouse/SO, so I'm going to do it because it makes them happy." Provided, of course, that whatever you're being asked to do is not something that requires you to go against your values or belief system.
posted by virago at 1:13 PM on April 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sometimes, my dad would hide information, asking the brothers not to tell anyone. I would tell my wife anyway.
A lot of people seem to have missed this. The OP doesn't have a history of keeping things from his wife. He has a history of including his wife while his family wants to keep her out. Therefore her overreaction to keeping this one thing from her does seem to be just that - an overreaction.
OP, I'd wait until she calms down and then find out *why* she reacted the way she did. If she believes that you have a history of keeping things from her, then try to find out why she has the opinion. I can honestly understand how you feel because after ten years of being completely honest with my first husband about all things, he claimed that he "could never trust me again" and that everything I've ever told him before was now suspect, because I lied by omission - once. It seems to me that your wife is acting much in the same way.
posted by patheral at 1:38 PM on April 20, 2011
A lot of people seem to have missed this. The OP doesn't have a history of keeping things from his wife. He has a history of including his wife while his family wants to keep her out. Therefore her overreaction to keeping this one thing from her does seem to be just that - an overreaction.
OP, I'd wait until she calms down and then find out *why* she reacted the way she did. If she believes that you have a history of keeping things from her, then try to find out why she has the opinion. I can honestly understand how you feel because after ten years of being completely honest with my first husband about all things, he claimed that he "could never trust me again" and that everything I've ever told him before was now suspect, because I lied by omission - once. It seems to me that your wife is acting much in the same way.
posted by patheral at 1:38 PM on April 20, 2011
>Sometimes, my dad would hide information, asking the brothers not to tell anyone. I would tell my wife anyway.
A lot of people seem to have missed this. The OP doesn't have a history of keeping things from his wife. He has a history of including his wife while his family wants to keep her out. Therefore her overreaction to keeping this one thing from her does seem to be just that - an overreaction.
Another way of looking at that example is OP's wife already knows the family sometimes keeps secrets from one another and knows her husband has been told to keep secrets in the past, ones which he's previously told her. Then, when confronted with a secret that he didn't tell (immediately), maybe she starts to wonder what else he could have kept from her, which could be compounded if she's historically felt like somewhat of an outsider anyway. So even if OP has always been above board and honest about what he knows, a family pattern of secrecy could still cause his wife react the way she did.
Ultimately I don't think it's so helpful to determine whether she was justified in her response or overreacted so much as to figure out why she feels the way she does and what can be done to address it.
posted by 6550 at 11:59 PM on April 20, 2011
A lot of people seem to have missed this. The OP doesn't have a history of keeping things from his wife. He has a history of including his wife while his family wants to keep her out. Therefore her overreaction to keeping this one thing from her does seem to be just that - an overreaction.
Another way of looking at that example is OP's wife already knows the family sometimes keeps secrets from one another and knows her husband has been told to keep secrets in the past, ones which he's previously told her. Then, when confronted with a secret that he didn't tell (immediately), maybe she starts to wonder what else he could have kept from her, which could be compounded if she's historically felt like somewhat of an outsider anyway. So even if OP has always been above board and honest about what he knows, a family pattern of secrecy could still cause his wife react the way she did.
Ultimately I don't think it's so helpful to determine whether she was justified in her response or overreacted so much as to figure out why she feels the way she does and what can be done to address it.
posted by 6550 at 11:59 PM on April 20, 2011
There's probably more behind it than this one thing, and it would be in your mutual best interest to hash it out. But... if I may suggest? I wouldn't approach it a workmanlike "Okay, Now I'm Going To Fix This Problem" type way, or even an Explaining Yourself way. I'd say go out somewhere for dinner and/or drinks, a place with a great atmosphere (or someplace else outside of the house, somewhat romantic and intimate – picnic in the park, walk by the seaside, and ice cream afterward, that kind of thing), and private enough to have a conversation, and encourage her to talk about the situation. (In other words, don't approach it as an unpleasant task to get squared away as quickly as possible; use it as a chance to strengthen your bond and intimacy.)
You need to know what surrounds the incident in her mind, and she needs to know that you care about her and want to understand her feelings, and that's it's still You Two Together before and above everything else, that you're on the same team and you're solid.
Do a good job of listening; don't worry about jumping in to clarify every misunderstanding or refute what she might attribute to your thought process. All that can be addressed after you get a whole picture of what she's thinking. I'm not saying don't join in, though; I'm saying don't do it by saying stuff like "you're wrong," or "you don't understand," or "you're exaggerating"; you can say that you had no idea she was feeling X, or that you absolutely never intended [Some Action] to mean X, and you are so sorry that it caused her to worry. After she's described her thoughts and feelings, you can tell her what you were thinking and how it seemed to you, and then work out together how to proceed and hopefully avoid similar misunderstandings.
Perhaps the problem lies in the history with your family, or perhaps this is one item among several (perhaps seemingly unconnected) things that has caused her to question the strength of your relationship for some reason. This is information that you really need to know. Waiting for the storm to pass often just means that it's a problem deferred; maybe this incident is one of several others that were deferred while the storms passed, but have now built up and coalesced to represent something that you would never want her to think or feel.
Don't be afraid if she seems angry or even accusatory at first; if she will talk about it and you are really listening, that is likely to modulate greatly. Her expressing some anger is not the worst thing that could happen; the worst thing would be that your relationship is severely damaged because of neglecting to address problems out of fear of someone being angry. Some anger is a lot better than contempt or disinterest. Anger from an otherwise emotionally well-adjusted partner means that something matters a lot to them. If she is angry because she feels you have betrayed her or that you mistrust her or that you are not as committed as she is, that means you matter to her a lot.
posted by taz at 2:44 AM on April 21, 2011
You need to know what surrounds the incident in her mind, and she needs to know that you care about her and want to understand her feelings, and that's it's still You Two Together before and above everything else, that you're on the same team and you're solid.
Do a good job of listening; don't worry about jumping in to clarify every misunderstanding or refute what she might attribute to your thought process. All that can be addressed after you get a whole picture of what she's thinking. I'm not saying don't join in, though; I'm saying don't do it by saying stuff like "you're wrong," or "you don't understand," or "you're exaggerating"; you can say that you had no idea she was feeling X, or that you absolutely never intended [Some Action] to mean X, and you are so sorry that it caused her to worry. After she's described her thoughts and feelings, you can tell her what you were thinking and how it seemed to you, and then work out together how to proceed and hopefully avoid similar misunderstandings.
Perhaps the problem lies in the history with your family, or perhaps this is one item among several (perhaps seemingly unconnected) things that has caused her to question the strength of your relationship for some reason. This is information that you really need to know. Waiting for the storm to pass often just means that it's a problem deferred; maybe this incident is one of several others that were deferred while the storms passed, but have now built up and coalesced to represent something that you would never want her to think or feel.
Don't be afraid if she seems angry or even accusatory at first; if she will talk about it and you are really listening, that is likely to modulate greatly. Her expressing some anger is not the worst thing that could happen; the worst thing would be that your relationship is severely damaged because of neglecting to address problems out of fear of someone being angry. Some anger is a lot better than contempt or disinterest. Anger from an otherwise emotionally well-adjusted partner means that something matters a lot to them. If she is angry because she feels you have betrayed her or that you mistrust her or that you are not as committed as she is, that means you matter to her a lot.
posted by taz at 2:44 AM on April 21, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by chmmr at 4:36 AM on April 20, 2011