Conflict between science and religion/traditional beliefs.
May 3, 2005 11:15 AM
I am looking for cross-cultural examples of conflict between science and religion/traditional beliefs.
I have seen a few posts on the evolution/creationism fracas the last few days and it got me to thinking. I suspect that the current model of biological evolution would be completely non-controversial in the U.S. if it were not for the Biblical account of creation and a sizable community in the U.S. and elsewhere who advocate interpreting the Bible literally.
Are there examples of scientific principles most people in the U.S. (or other Western countries) would consider non-controversial that are contested in other cultures because of widespread religious or traditional beliefs? I am especially interested in examples from industrialized countries, since I assume all(?) traditional unindustrialized societies would have numerous beliefs we would consider “unscientific.”
I have seen a few posts on the evolution/creationism fracas the last few days and it got me to thinking. I suspect that the current model of biological evolution would be completely non-controversial in the U.S. if it were not for the Biblical account of creation and a sizable community in the U.S. and elsewhere who advocate interpreting the Bible literally.
Are there examples of scientific principles most people in the U.S. (or other Western countries) would consider non-controversial that are contested in other cultures because of widespread religious or traditional beliefs? I am especially interested in examples from industrialized countries, since I assume all(?) traditional unindustrialized societies would have numerous beliefs we would consider “unscientific.”
Not exactly what you're looking for, as it's more "technology" than "scientific theory," but the Sepoy Rebellion in India was an example of religious beliefs conflicting with technological advancement (mixed with a slew of British colonialism and Indian resentment) resulting in out-and-out warfare.
posted by Alt F4 at 11:40 AM on May 3, 2005
posted by Alt F4 at 11:40 AM on May 3, 2005
The Spirit Catches You is really required reading in this regard.
posted by OmieWise at 11:48 AM on May 3, 2005
posted by OmieWise at 11:48 AM on May 3, 2005
Except that he says:
I am especially interested in examples from industrialized countries, since I assume all(?) traditional unindustrialized societies would have numerous beliefs we would consider “unscientific.”
An interesting question; I suspect Japan may be a good place to look, but I can't think of any examples at the moment.
posted by languagehat at 12:03 PM on May 3, 2005
I am especially interested in examples from industrialized countries, since I assume all(?) traditional unindustrialized societies would have numerous beliefs we would consider “unscientific.”
An interesting question; I suspect Japan may be a good place to look, but I can't think of any examples at the moment.
posted by languagehat at 12:03 PM on May 3, 2005
Here you are.
Note that questioning people's origin myths in a post-colonial society has important consequences for modern politics.
Closer to home, think about Christian Scientists and Jehovan's Witnesses opposition to blood transfusions.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:26 PM on May 3, 2005
Note that questioning people's origin myths in a post-colonial society has important consequences for modern politics.
Closer to home, think about Christian Scientists and Jehovan's Witnesses opposition to blood transfusions.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:26 PM on May 3, 2005
Whatzit is right, there are so many examples out there. If you're looking for something academic, recent Anthropology and STS (Science and Technology Studies) work documents these many of these cases and they can be enjoyable reading even if you're not well versed in the discipline(s).
You might enjoy checking out the book Naked Science: Anthropological Inquiry into Boundaries, Power, and Knowledge edited by Laura Nader which presents several cases at the intersection of indigenous knowledge and western technoscience.
Another work which may have articles pertaining to your specific interests (though possibly only in the tangential sense): The "Racial" Economy of Science: Toward a Democratic Future (Race, Gender, and Science) edited by Sandra Harding.
You might also look at the book French DNA: Trouble in Purgatory by Paul Rabinow for an example of the investments, conflicts and attitudes about science and technology that can occur within the setting of two industrialized (and, I think it's safe to say, statistically speaking, predominantly Christian) nations.
Additionally, I mention this out of your focus on industrialized nations, I recall some passages from Beamtimes and Lifetimes: The World of High Energy Physicists by Sharon Traweek that discuss (a slightly different situation) how scientists manage their religious and scientific beliefs (which, in some cases, would seem to be incompatible). This is not the only work that explores this angle, and I remember not being terribly impressed with Traweek's approach overall, but it's the tip of another interesting iceberg. Good Luck in your search, and have fun!
posted by safetyfork at 12:37 PM on May 3, 2005
You might enjoy checking out the book Naked Science: Anthropological Inquiry into Boundaries, Power, and Knowledge edited by Laura Nader which presents several cases at the intersection of indigenous knowledge and western technoscience.
Another work which may have articles pertaining to your specific interests (though possibly only in the tangential sense): The "Racial" Economy of Science: Toward a Democratic Future (Race, Gender, and Science) edited by Sandra Harding.
You might also look at the book French DNA: Trouble in Purgatory by Paul Rabinow for an example of the investments, conflicts and attitudes about science and technology that can occur within the setting of two industrialized (and, I think it's safe to say, statistically speaking, predominantly Christian) nations.
Additionally, I mention this out of your focus on industrialized nations, I recall some passages from Beamtimes and Lifetimes: The World of High Energy Physicists by Sharon Traweek that discuss (a slightly different situation) how scientists manage their religious and scientific beliefs (which, in some cases, would seem to be incompatible). This is not the only work that explores this angle, and I remember not being terribly impressed with Traweek's approach overall, but it's the tip of another interesting iceberg. Good Luck in your search, and have fun!
posted by safetyfork at 12:37 PM on May 3, 2005
The physicist Carl Segan is obviously a famous man of science who rained on religion's parade. If you want to walk off into the deep, go beyond the simple science vs religion into the meaning of being human. Sagan eventually considered the intersection of the two, in the effects of humanity's existence, saying, "We are a way that the cosmos can know itself." Note, does this mean that god exists? Maybe more that its products reflect its own laws and physics of interaction. Ever the scientist... we interpret our surroundings.
posted by uni verse at 1:04 PM on May 3, 2005
posted by uni verse at 1:04 PM on May 3, 2005
The story of the Spirit Cave Mummy is one good example.
Galileo's story is another: He was an outspoken (obnoxious, even) proponent of the heliocentric theory, which contradicted church doctrine (which was based as much on that old pagan Aristotle as on the Bible). The church was not happy about that, and an ecclesiastical court forced him to recant his beliefs on pain of excommunication (the story goes that after recanting, he turned around, stamped his foot, and muttered "eppur si muove" -- and yet it moves). He still lived the rest of his life under house arrest. Obviously this is not cross-cultural--it's an analog to the creationism/evolution conflict in the USA now.
posted by adamrice at 1:23 PM on May 3, 2005
Galileo's story is another: He was an outspoken (obnoxious, even) proponent of the heliocentric theory, which contradicted church doctrine (which was based as much on that old pagan Aristotle as on the Bible). The church was not happy about that, and an ecclesiastical court forced him to recant his beliefs on pain of excommunication (the story goes that after recanting, he turned around, stamped his foot, and muttered "eppur si muove" -- and yet it moves). He still lived the rest of his life under house arrest. Obviously this is not cross-cultural--it's an analog to the creationism/evolution conflict in the USA now.
posted by adamrice at 1:23 PM on May 3, 2005
This article:
2002 Exotic No More: Anthropology on the Front Lines, In Jeremy MacClancy, ed., Medical Knowledge and Body Politics. Chicago University Press, pp.190-208.
is pretty on-topic for what you're looking for. It's got some content about the way in which moral order can have perceived effects on health. It also considers the "invented" diseases reported among Greek immigrants to Montreal. This sounds like mundane stuff, but the article is quite well done and helped me appreciate the ways in which western science/medicine isn't the only valid way to understand the world.
Sorry I can't give you a link... Your best bet is probably to track down the book in a library. It's a great book in general, and has lots of good articles targeted generally towards lay-people.
Also, the author of that article has lots more work in the same field. Her bibliography is here:
http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/programs/anthro/faculty/lock.htm
posted by heresiarch at 1:46 PM on May 3, 2005
2002 Exotic No More: Anthropology on the Front Lines, In Jeremy MacClancy, ed., Medical Knowledge and Body Politics. Chicago University Press, pp.190-208.
is pretty on-topic for what you're looking for. It's got some content about the way in which moral order can have perceived effects on health. It also considers the "invented" diseases reported among Greek immigrants to Montreal. This sounds like mundane stuff, but the article is quite well done and helped me appreciate the ways in which western science/medicine isn't the only valid way to understand the world.
Sorry I can't give you a link... Your best bet is probably to track down the book in a library. It's a great book in general, and has lots of good articles targeted generally towards lay-people.
Also, the author of that article has lots more work in the same field. Her bibliography is here:
http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/programs/anthro/faculty/lock.htm
posted by heresiarch at 1:46 PM on May 3, 2005
These are all great examples, and I will definitely be tracking down the literature on several of them.
There are clearly many, many facets to this topic and I am familiar with some and unfamiliar with others.
Languagehat seems to have caught the gist of my original question and intention. I am especially interested in an example of widespread opposition to orthodox "scientific" understanding in an industrialized non-Western/(probably non-Christian) society caused by deeply held religious or traditional beliefs. This probably means an example from Japan, industrialized China, India, or other east- or southeast-Asian country. I am really interested in a paralell example to widespread U.S. rejection of evolution in another industrialized country. Some of the examples raised so far are close (and almost all seem deeply interesting), but none of them are exactly on point.
posted by Tallguy at 2:36 PM on May 3, 2005
There are clearly many, many facets to this topic and I am familiar with some and unfamiliar with others.
Languagehat seems to have caught the gist of my original question and intention. I am especially interested in an example of widespread opposition to orthodox "scientific" understanding in an industrialized non-Western/(probably non-Christian) society caused by deeply held religious or traditional beliefs. This probably means an example from Japan, industrialized China, India, or other east- or southeast-Asian country. I am really interested in a paralell example to widespread U.S. rejection of evolution in another industrialized country. Some of the examples raised so far are close (and almost all seem deeply interesting), but none of them are exactly on point.
posted by Tallguy at 2:36 PM on May 3, 2005
I have read (from sources that I frankly consider dubious) that there is considerable skepticism towards Darwin in France--not because they're a bunch of fundamentalists, just because they're not sold on it.
Heresiarch's link is concerned with traditional medicine in Japan. I don't know much about traditional Japanese medicine apart from traditional Chinese medicine (which is much more common in Japan, AFAIK). Traditional Chinese medicine has a completely different schema for understanding how the body works and how disease works--it is systematic, but completely divorced from Western medicine. It's still very popular in China and pretty popular in Japan. They don't reject Western medicine by any stretch, but seem to pick and choose which system they want to buy into on an ad-hoc basis.
There are places in Pakistan where people refuse their children polio vaccines, claiming them to be an Indian plot to poison them (actually, you get this kind of thing wherever there's any kind of vaccination program). I believe the current president of South Africa has supported AIDS-denialist theories, such as those from Peter Duesberg.
Not sure if any of this quite gets at what you want.
posted by adamrice at 4:16 PM on May 3, 2005
Heresiarch's link is concerned with traditional medicine in Japan. I don't know much about traditional Japanese medicine apart from traditional Chinese medicine (which is much more common in Japan, AFAIK). Traditional Chinese medicine has a completely different schema for understanding how the body works and how disease works--it is systematic, but completely divorced from Western medicine. It's still very popular in China and pretty popular in Japan. They don't reject Western medicine by any stretch, but seem to pick and choose which system they want to buy into on an ad-hoc basis.
There are places in Pakistan where people refuse their children polio vaccines, claiming them to be an Indian plot to poison them (actually, you get this kind of thing wherever there's any kind of vaccination program). I believe the current president of South Africa has supported AIDS-denialist theories, such as those from Peter Duesberg.
Not sure if any of this quite gets at what you want.
posted by adamrice at 4:16 PM on May 3, 2005
I was thinking about the polio issue too, adamrice, and there's more than just the Indian poisoning theory. In some of the gulf/M.E. countries (Saudi Arabia was one, I think) there were rumors that it was a U.S. effort to sterilize Muslim women(!). (The vaccination effort was eventually restarted when they began purchasing vaccines from Indonesia.)
posted by whatzit at 4:30 PM on May 3, 2005
posted by whatzit at 4:30 PM on May 3, 2005
What seems like a relevant example to me - the scientific leadership of Trofin Denisovitch Lysenko in Stalin-era USSR. He rejected the chromosome theory of heredity and gained the support and backing of the soviet party leadership in part because he promoted the idea that his environmental conception of heredity was in better accord with Marxist doctrine.
http://www.cyberussr.com/rus/lysenko.html
Notable here is that a secular and modern ideology is being used to support an aggressive imposition of a particular scientific viewpoint and to attack contrary views and their supporters. In essence, true science became impossible in this context in the USSR because theories were required to be in accordance with ideological principles that in reality had no validity in relation to scientific inquiry.
posted by nanojath at 1:14 AM on May 4, 2005
http://www.cyberussr.com/rus/lysenko.html
Notable here is that a secular and modern ideology is being used to support an aggressive imposition of a particular scientific viewpoint and to attack contrary views and their supporters. In essence, true science became impossible in this context in the USSR because theories were required to be in accordance with ideological principles that in reality had no validity in relation to scientific inquiry.
posted by nanojath at 1:14 AM on May 4, 2005
Excellent example, nanojath.
posted by languagehat at 7:33 AM on May 5, 2005
posted by languagehat at 7:33 AM on May 5, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by whatzit at 11:25 AM on May 3, 2005