After all this is over, we're moving to Hawaii.

March 28, 2011 8:59 PM

Looking for advice for the love of my life: how can she bridge a possible two-year gap between college and grad school? She wants to get an MSW, but she may be stuck for a couple of years while I get my BSc. We're a bit stymied and could really use some good counsel.

So, like I said, I'm asking this one on behalf of my girlfriend. (That's why it's anonymous – she knows I'm asking, she's just a more private person than I am.) She's been feeling more than a little down about this situation, and I'm not sure that it's really my specific area of expertise so I told her I'd ask around here and see if the Hive Mind could lend any of its famously excellent advice to the situation. Here are the basics:

My girlfriend is 24. She graduated college last summer with a bachelor's degree in counseling from, as she puts it, "a little hippie college in the desert". She lives (with me) in New Orleans now, where I am working on my own BSc in biology. I have a minimum of two more years before I graduate, and I'm hopefully bound for grad school myself after that.

My girlfriend (let's call her Estrella) wants to get her MSW and become a social worker. She feels that this is a calling for her, that through radical social work she can improve lives on both an individual and (hopefully) systemic level. (Don't you just love this girl? How could you not love that?) Unfortunately there is only one school in the area that has an affordable MSW program (we're poor) and that's SUNO, Southern University at New Orleans.

Now, Estrella put an application in to SUNO a couple of months ago and simultaneously embarked on a couple of online courses at Delgado (the local community college) to knock out some prerequisites that her non-traditional alma mater didn't include in its curriculum (as expected, she's acing them). The problem here is that SUNO has been in a total communication blackout about her application, and it's been long enough that we're starting to get worried.

Calls to the relevant department are always received by the same woman in administration. This woman (according to Estrella; I've never had the pleasure of speaking to the lady in question) is one of those people whose tone of voice seems to indicate that she's noting down everything you're saying so that she can use it against you later on. She will not tell our heroine if acceptance/rejection letters have been sent out, how long the admissions process normally takes, or even whether her application was received. For that matter she gave Estrella the run-around regarding whether or not the classes she's taking at Delgado would transfer over if and when she started attending SUNO. There doesn't appear to be anyone higher up the food chain who she can attempt to avail herself of, and reports from other SUNO students have corroborated the idea that the while SUNO's professors (in this department, anyway) are excellent, the school's administration is notably unhelpful.

So, since it's been a couple months and we're beginning to see the end of the college semester approaching, we're getting a bit worried as to whether we should start formulating a contingency plan. Sound a little late to start thinking about Plan B, you say? We agree. The problem is, we're really not sure what Plan B would look like. Here is the framework of the situation.

One, I'm pretty much here until I finish my bachelor's degree. My situation at school is pretty solid, I like my classes and my classmates and my professors, I'm doing well in school for once in my sorry life, and I'm working in a great, supportive, highly educational laboratory that will set me up beautifully for grad school. I'm blowing through things pretty fast (I'm attending in the summer, I have some transfer credits under my belt, and I'm taking a heavy course load) but when all's said and done I've got two years left. Estrella, lovely girl that she is, has professed an earnest desire to stay with me while I finish this out. A long-distance relationship really isn't for us – we both agree wholeheartedly on this point.

Also, let it be said (just in case it needed to be) that this girl is absolutely the love of my life, that I feel confident she returns the sentiment, and that we want to deal with this and go forward in our lives as a couple. I realize that sometimes people have conflicting goals and that breakups do occur for pragmatic reasons. That is not us, and that is not a possibility that is under consideration, so if that's what you're thinking then please find somewhere else to say it.

Now, if Estrella doesn't in fact get into Southern (this year – applying again is not out of the question though it only shortens the gap, rather than removing it) and if she's stuck here in New Orleans for the duration, she would really like to find some productive use for her time. Right now she's shift manager at a crappy eatery frequented by overentitled frat-boys from the expensive private university (Tulane) across town. Needless to say, she pretty much wants to kill herself after every shift – not to mention that the skills she developed during her undergraduate career are lying fallow, the money she makes is essentially a pittance, and she's missing out on a career that she loves.

So here I am, O Hive Mind, your humble supplicant. How do we get through the next two years? Estrella is not totally averse to waiting a couple of years and applying to grad school at the same time as (and in the same cities as) me, provided that we can work out some way for her to get through the intervening time without tearing out her hair and in a position to be an attractive applicant two years down the road. There's also the possibility of re-applying for the next semester or year at SUNO, though anything more than a semester might be a bit hard for me to absorb into my own academic schedule (the sciences are not terribly forgiving about gaps between under- and post-graduate studies). She does have some experience in social work, she did a year of internship at that little hippie college in the desert – hooray for experiential learning! – and we both think that it would be pretty cool if she could get a job involving social work, counseling, and social activism (two out of three would be fine!) that would take her at her current level of education, but such jobs are few and far between. (Though we would LOVE LOVE LOVE it if anybody has any ideas, either general ones or, better yet, specific tips for the New Orleans area.) And other than that, we're a little stumped and having a hard time figuring out how to proceed. What do you think our game plan should be?

So there you have it – a tangled situation, and I commend you for slogging through this far. Commendations all around. We await your advice with hearts full of hope and big, shiny, puppy-dog eyes. If anyone wants to get in touch with us privately, here's the email address: [e-mail]. We'll both be checking it, and you may well get a response from either one of us. Much love to all of you out on the Green!

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (15 answers total)

There is nothing wrong with waiting a year or two between bachelors and masters. In fact, particularly in fields like social work, it's a very good idea. My daughter is just now planning on applying to grad school - she's getting her degree in occupational therapy - after six years out of college with a psych degree. How do you fill the time in a way that will show that you're serious about your career? Work in the field. For example, she could become a one on one worker with the local autistic or MR population. The pay will be low - lower than any waitressing job, yep, you better believe it - the hours will be long, the work will be frustrating and at the end of it she will know if this is really what she wants to do for the rest of her life. Even if that's not the area she wants to focus on, there are entry level jobs out there - here's one and here's another.
posted by mygothlaundry at 9:14 PM on March 28, 2011

we both think that it would be pretty cool if she could get a job involving social work, counseling, and social activism

That's pretty much what I would suggest. Jobs are few and far between for everyone but you just have to keep looking: volunteer, cold call a million non-profits to see if they're hiring, go to professional meetings in town to network, volunteer for a campaign, run for the school board, work nights at a womens shelter or a hotline. Whatever. Very, very, very few people get the entry level jobs they want by applying to postings on job boards, you need to pursue every avenue. They do not fall into your lap.
posted by fshgrl at 9:14 PM on March 28, 2011

Has she investigated online or low-residency programs, of the reputable variety? The best one I've heard of is Smith College's. It's probably too late to apply there, but there may be others as good.
posted by mareli at 9:22 PM on March 28, 2011

Here's a list of accredited online or distance education MSW programs.
posted by mareli at 9:44 PM on March 28, 2011

In my city, the local residential treatment and residential care centers are always hiring. The pay is sucky, and there's lots of night shifts, but the educational requirements are low, and you are working with people who define the category of "in need." If she ends up working nights, you'll have less time together, but you will be in the same city, and it's a valuable perspective on the community. Check nonprofitjobs.org or idealist.org.
posted by freshwater at 9:45 PM on March 28, 2011

She will not tell our heroine if acceptance/rejection letters have been sent out, how long the admissions process normally takes, or even whether her application was received.

Completely unreasonable. Your gf needs to go in person to the department and knock on some doors or find other people to call and get an answer.

I mean this in the kindest way possible: As a social worker, your gf is going to have to deal with toxic people like the woman in administration on a routine basis and she is going to have to learn to not accept no as an answer so she can get the best services for her clients.
posted by mlis at 9:53 PM on March 28, 2011 [6 favorites]

freshwater is right...go out and get a job in the field. This would be something like a mental health tech at a psychiatric hospital ward or facility, caseworker type position (intake worker, etc) with Dept of Human Services, Children and Family Services or similar, or some sort of direct care staff position in any sort of residential treatment facility. Also check out jobs in non profits that does the kind of work that she is interested in. It's hard work, but it will help her figure out the population she ultimately wants to work with. Social work is a tough field and isnt for everyone. And it's a great intro to social work...she will learn about the clients and illnesses or issues she will be working with. It's also great on an app for grad school, not to mention she will have already learned how to write case notes for when she has to do that in class.

Waiting for a couple of years before going to grad school is definitely not a hinderance in this field...it's actually a bonus if you are working and getting experience. I worked in a residential psych facility while getting my masters in counseling and it really helped me in my coursework because I could actually apply what we were learning each week. Definitely go get a job.
posted by MultiFaceted at 10:43 PM on March 28, 2011

Although you don't say what science field you're in, I do want to say that a year or two between your bachelor's and grad school will not doom your science academic career, either, and I'm concerned about who gave you that information. Ideally, that time would be spent working in a lab gaining more skills, but depending on your area other kinds of experience are valued. I've been in grad school a long time, and in general that people who've done best have been people with some work experience who knew what they were doing and the people who've done worst have been people straight out of undergrad who weren't positive about their research interests and didn't understand the difference between undergrad and grad school.

All that said, my impression is that New Orleans is chock full of service and AmeriCorps programs from the recovery effort and it seems like one of those would be a natural fit for her. VISTA might be especially good.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:31 AM on March 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

(the sciences are not terribly forgiving about gaps between under- and post-graduate studies).

What? Sure they are. More to the point, careers in the sciences don't actually care about anything you did before you started graduate school. Graduate schools care about your undergrad grades and your lab experience. If, for some reason, you couldn't start grad school right away after undergrad and you got a lab-tech job in between, you'd be fine. And by the time you finished, your life pre-graduate school wouldn't even enter into consideration when applying for jobs.
posted by deanc at 4:53 AM on March 29, 2011

Your girlfriend should be looking for case management jobs or even the tech jobs that the above posters noted. I don't know about N.O., but in my area, the only thing required for case management is a bachelor's degree. Tech jobs are a great way to get a foot in the door for when better positions open up. She could start volunteering at local non-profits (homeless shelters, sexual assualt orgs, etc) to get some more experience and to start making connections with other social service professionals in the area. Heck, some employers may offer some tuition reimbursement for their employees to help pay for grad school.
posted by whatideserve at 5:44 AM on March 29, 2011

1. She should talk to this guy. He's the MSW program director, and an associate professor at the school. She can call and try to get her information over the phone, call and schedule a meeting, or drop by the department.

2. I had a year gap between undergrad and grad school in Physics, and didn't have a big problem with that. But I would suggest to take your GREs while the subjects are still fresh in your head.

3. If she can't get a job in the field, volunteer! She can volunteer out of the goodness of her heart, but also for the nice additions to her resume.
posted by Tooty McTootsalot at 6:16 AM on March 29, 2011 [1 favorite]

A number of people I know have gone various routes through social work programs. Two friends got their bachelors from a traditional state college. One got licensed and promptly did nothing with it, instead working as a teller at a bank because the money was better. The other didn't get licensed, but spent a couple years being a "counsellor" (babysitter) at a group home for troubled youths. It was super low pay, but the experience was priceless. He saved his pennies and then went through a one year MSW program and moved on to being a grade school social worker. He aced the program, and is now excellent at his job, because he has seen a wider gamut of problems and when he sees a kid who is critical, he knows how to handle the kid and is not uncomfortable with the situations. Those few in-between years were tough and social-work bootcamp like, and were really, really beneficial for his career.

Third person was a bit more like your gf, in the wanting to change the world, radical social work nature. She did some interning, but basically did the BSW and MSW in a 5 year full time stretch. She has not had a great time of it, because the marketplace tends to chew up and spit out people like this. Orgs, purposefully or by virtue of funding, tend to use and abuse newly minted MSWs who are bent on world-changing and can be happy making crap because they feel good about what they are doing. Unfortunately, this is a soul-crushing existence.

Point: it may be a net positive to spend a year or two working in the field between BSW and MSW. She will gain experience, be better able to master the MSW program, and have a leg up on better jobs upon graduation from MSW. A little older, a LOT more experienced, etc. This may not be a downside, it might be an upside.
posted by gjc at 6:37 AM on March 29, 2011

Okay, this is way too long to read.

Regardless: having work experience before grad school is a very good thing! Many jobs require higher salaries for ppl with masters degrees, and employers do not like paying more to people with zero work experience. So it's not easier to get a job with a masters than without (although you'll need a masters to get ahead). Plus, grad schools very much like work experience so she'll be a more competitive applicant.

If she doesn't find a full time job in the field she wants, then work part-time in any job that will pay the bills, and do a free internship the rest of the time to juice up the resume.
posted by Neekee at 7:43 AM on March 29, 2011

As others have already said, she should get a job--any job--in a related field. If she can't find a job, then she should volunteer. I work at a place with social work interns (MSW students), and the ones who come straight from undergrad can be enormously frustrating. They're often naive about the job and the world, have no idea how to work in a professional environment, and are clueless about the populations we/they serve. If she likes the job, then she'll be a better MSW candidate and student/intern. If she doesn't like the job, then she can rethink whether the MSW is right for her.
posted by Mavri at 8:41 AM on March 29, 2011

This is the exact opposite of a problem.

She will be a much better social worker with a break between college and grad school. (In fact, you can replace "social worker" in that sentence with ANY profession requiring grad school.) She should, as advised above, try to get a job in the field. But keep in mind any work experience is good, and will help her both in school and once she starts her career. It's much better to learn the ropes of the working world now than when she is trying to do something as sensitive, and something requiring as much professionalism and empathy, as social work. Not to mention, having some experience of what it's like working will help her work with her clients (many of whom will be working themselves).

fwiw, I work in a similar field, and am several years post masters. I work with and supervise a number of people who went straight through, and they do not do anywhere near as well as the people that took time off first. And as someone who occasionally is involved in hiring, given two candidates fresh out of school, the one with previous experience will have a huge leg up.
posted by min at 5:39 PM on March 29, 2011